As of tonight I have been getting an sms from t-mo U.S. everytime i start up the wifi sharing. This is the message "Free T-Mobile Msg: Phone Tethering & Wi-Fi Sharing access has been blocked. Please add a Phone Tethering & Wi-Fi......."
I never used it much so its not the end of the world, nor am I here to discuss wether or not it is. I am more interested in simply understanding how it is that they determine I was using the data on my laptop as opposed to my phone. Im sure others have discussed how this could be done in the past but I specifically curious how T-MO US detects this.
Because your phone turns into a NAT router and a major carrier's proxy server is not exactly monitored by one fat slob in a basement.
The moment you open the browser on your laptop you give the game away. Each request for a web page carries information on the browser you are using. If the browser is non-mobile then they know you are tethered.
You say you never used it much but I spoke at length with an AT&T tech regarding tethering and he told me that they don't actively look for non-mobile browsers but rather they look at the data usage. Mobile browsers tend to request the mobile friendly pages with less data so large chunks of data trigger a flag.
I have been with T-MOUS tech for the better part of the day, apparently my apps that are not working are being recognized as tethering activity by the network. No one at TMO at this point understands why but they can tell that certain applications that access data are triggering the tethering notification, rendering them unable to gain network access. I have had trouble getting F.IM last.fm, internet explorer (at times) yet opera browser and slacker radio work just fine. To prove to T-MO it wasn't my device we initially tested all this again on other SIM Cards and all was well. It sounds to me like they are blocking internet 80 but they assure me that is not the way they prevent tethering. They said that the new system for blocking tethering went up in the last few days at the same time they cut our throttling pt from 10gig to 5gig. I am the first to have this problem or anything similar according to tech. I must add they have been very kind and understanding, they believe me when I tell them I know something and they don't make me hard reset the device or replace battery when I told them I already did that myself. ATT never believed me and always made me repeat myself and processes.
I'm not entirely sure but I think most of the major providers just changed to the "unlimited" plan that is limited as standard so changing provider might not be a good option.
There have to be a bazillion unprotected WAP's near where ever you are...
I've experienced the same in the last 2 days. Now, when I do try to tether, it routes me to a T-Mobile site offering their tethering option for 15 bucks.
Tried the hotspot about an hour ago. so far so good
I was sharing with my zune hd, not a laptop, so that might make a difference. logged into msn messenger and sent some messages, used the FB app, and dl a song. so far no nasty-gram texts from T-mo. I'll let you know if one comes later.
Airborne Aircrew said:
The moment you open the browser on your laptop you give the game away. Each request for a web page carries information on the browser you are using. If the browser is non-mobile then they know you are tethered.
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that's a bit of a broad method. i have opera set to present the FireFox useragent, to bypass mobile sites, are you saying i wouldn't be allowed to do this on t mo us? surely that's illegal? i mean its not like you have to hack opera to make it do it, its a user setting.
what if you wrote your own browser? surely they can't be allowed topresume you are tethering on such flimsy evidence.it would be a bit like doing you for downloading music just because you have some speakers and a computer.
the easy way to test of course is to set your pc useragent to opera.
samsamuel said:
that's a bit of a broad method. i have opera set to present the FireFox useragent, to bypass mobile sites, are you saying i wouldn't be allowed to do this on t mo us? surely that's illegal? i mean its not like you have to hack opera to make it do it, its a user setting.
what if you wrote your own browser? surely they can't be allowed topresume you are tethering on such flimsy evidence.it would be a bit like doing you for downloading music just because you have some speakers and a computer.
the easy way to test of course is to set your pc useragent to opera.
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barring online privacy acts and what-have-you, they could easily read your header and determine that the client/laptop/tethering device does not contain mobile protocol and with reasonable doubt that traffic is getting moved fairly quickly (amount of data relay, TTL, etc) on a "mobile" device, they'll flag the activity. Changing user-agent isn't a problem when they have other concrete methods to track you by.
Like airborne aircrew said, the OP must've sent a huge amount of traffic when he's tethering. That's like saying I only tether once a month, but when I do, I download 4GB torrent...
Its not when I use my PC browser because the message comes as soon as I launch the wi-fi sharing app. If I USB tether then I get a message on my desktop browser.
I called t-mo us
Now apparently my threshold is 5g a month instead of the 10g when I signed up. Also since this tether block several apps can't get online via 3g on my HD2 such as F.IM Facebook instant messenger. (This all stinks because the reason I went to T-MO U.S. is because they never removed usb tether from winmo, and they had the threshold for speed throttling at 10 gigs. Now they have lowered my throttle to 5 gigs and expect me to pay an additional 15 to access those same 5 gigs with my laptop.)
Im not trying to start a debate on their policies or anything just after all that my HD2 itself can't access that value raped service with some apps.
***I added the Wi-Fi Internet sharing app to the phone my self. This is why its so puzzling that they message me as soon as I launch the app.
hecatombercm said:
Now they have lowered my throttle to 5 gigs and expect me to pay an additional 15 to access those same 5 gigs with my laptop.)
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You'll need to do some digging on local state laws but down under if you've signed a term contract the carrier can only upgrade your plan (e.g. 10G to 15G) not downgrade your service until the contract expires. With tactics like that I'd be looking at another carrier and port your phone number across.
visser said:
You'll need to do some digging on local state laws but down under if you've signed a term contract the carrier can only upgrade your plan (e.g. 10G to 15G) not downgrade your service until the contract expires. With tactics like that I'd be looking at another carrier and port your phone number across.
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Yep same here - in my T&C it said that if they change your plan and give you less, you have the right to get out of it there and then.
Very interesting cause the customer service rep admits that I had a 10g throttle point that is now 5g and also admits that the sales rep would have told me I'm allowed to use the built in tethering app modestly. This was my first attempt to tether in several months, and the one time I reached the 10g throttle point I didn't own a laptop so it was all done through the handset. I imagine I'll easily hit the new throttle point now even if I never utilize tethering. Heres and interesting thread over on the t-mo us forums. Someone talks a little bit about how T-Mo determines someone is tethering. http://forums.t-mobile.com/t5/myTouch-4G/tethering/m-p/551487/highlight/false#M5025
Related
Man I really hate T-Mobile's tech support. I called them to ask a simple question:
If I cancel my Total Internet Package which is just 20$ more on by phone bill that I don't really need to be spending, will I be charged for using the WIFI on my phone when I am at home?
I have Comcast cable internet at home and can pick up the router's signal with my MDA even with the sim card out and browse the internet.
They turned around and told me that I would be charged per Kb if I canceled my Total Internet Package and then used my WIFI to pick up my home internet service.
By the way this was T-Mobile's Windows Mobile Department that told me this...
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Ok now I have 2 questions for all of you.
Is what T-mobile told me true?
Is there a cheaper way to get unlimited GPRS internet than T-Mobile's $19.99 Total Internet package?
The only time I use my GPRS is to update WeatherPanel and when I am using the OZ Instant Messenger. All other time I spend on the internet is with WIFI turned on and GPRS turned off.
Please, all help will be greatly appreciated and well received.
Thanks in advance, your friendly neighborhood computer geek, Dan.
Well I hope I can help answer your question somewhat.
I do not pay for the GPRS service through Tmobile, I try not to use it at all. If I pull data through it then I am charged. But if i use a wifi hotspot then Tmobile will not charge me. In truth they should have no way of telling if and when I use a WiFi connection. The reason the rep told you this was really a twisting of the truth. He can probably get away with telling you this because it will cut your access to Tmobile HotSpots which you get access to with the data plan. Sneaky sneaky bastards, you should post this little tale on http://consumerist.com/ .
To answer the second if Tmobile is your carrier then NO I dont believe you can get GPRS data from another carrier. Unless your phone is sim unlocked and you choose to use another carrier to get your data through, but this will need you to switch sims out. Either way your gonna pay for it. I would hold out till 1-2 quarter of 2008 Tmobile will start its HSDPA role out, providing upwards of 3Mbps for data. Of course you will need a phone capable of HSDPA, but such is life.
If I am uninformed of another method maybe someone here will be so kind as to enlighten us.
ritalin said:
Well I hope I can help answer your question somewhat.
I do not pay for the GPRS service through Tmobile, I try not to use it at all. If I pull data through it then I am charged. But if i use a wifi hotspot then Tmobile will not charge me. In truth they should have no way of telling if and when I use a WiFi connection. The reason the rep told you this was really a twisting of the truth. He can probably get away with telling you this because it will cut your access to Tmobile HotSpots which you get access to with the data plan. Sneaky sneaky bastards, you should post this little tale on http://consumerist.com/ .
To answer the second if Tmobile is your carrier then NO I dont believe you can get GPRS data from another carrier. Unless your phone is sim unlocked and you choose to use another carrier to get your data through, but this will need you to switch sims out. Either way your gonna pay for it. I would hold out till 1-2 quarter of 2008 Tmobile will start its HSDPA role out, providing upwards of 3Mbps for data. Of course you will need a phone capable of HSDPA, but such is life.
If I am uninformed of another method maybe someone here will be so kind as to enlighten us.
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I figured T-Mobile was full of S**T... I know I can access the internet via WIFI even without a sim card in the device. I only use it at home or in hospitals anyway. Like I said though, the GPRS for me, is just for WeatherPanel. That's why I am trying to find a cheaper way...
Thank you for your help though. Not the answer I was hoping for but very grateful non the less.
Dan.
You won't get charged for using wifi. If weather panel is all you really use GPRS for then go to the 5.99 plan. That's what I use and have no problem using weather panel or even browsing the web. The other day I even streamed video over it, although GPRS is way too slow to be any use for that but I wanted to see if it worked. The only apps that I know of that do have problems are mostly IM apps since they have most of the ports that those programs use blocked on the 5.99 plan.
Just realized that you said that you use OZ IM, I'm not sure if that will work or not, I can't seem to get it to work with WM6.
You will not be charged per kilobyte, whoever told you that was either new or retarded. The only difference you will see is that your instant messaging will go thru text messages instead of wifi, charging you per message, to log in, to log out, etc. That's due to the way the OZ instant messaging is written. The 5.99 has been working for a lot of people, but it was a glitch in the system that is slowly being fixed market by market, so don't get upset if it doesn't work for you or if it suddenly stops working, as it was never meant to work. If you connect thru wifi, you won't pay anything as it's your connection thru wifi to your phone's wifi, and the T-Mobile network is nowhere in the mix. Again, the Instant Messaging will be billed as text messages.
johnny12times said:
You will not be charged per kilobyte, whoever told you that was either new or retarded. The only difference you will see is that your instant messaging will go thru text messages instead of wifi, charging you per message, to log in, to log out, etc. That's due to the way the OZ instant messaging is written. The 5.99 has been working for a lot of people, but it was a glitch in the system that is slowly being fixed market by market, so don't get upset if it doesn't work for you or if it suddenly stops working, as it was never meant to work. If you connect thru wifi, you won't pay anything as it's your connection thru wifi to your phone's wifi, and the T-Mobile network is nowhere in the mix. Again, the Instant Messaging will be billed as text messages.
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That is really good to know. Can you tell me or direct me to a thread that explains the real difference between the 5.99 plan and the 19.99 Total Internet Package?
i don't know about the question you had, but I've had the other extreme as far as Tmo's customer support/tech support... always been great to me. Even after 2 refurbs.
Whoever told you that you'd be charged using Wi-Fi was either full of it or was ASSUMING you would then be accessing T-Mo services...why would you? Just use whatever service you use from home.
I use my MDA with Wi-Fi in my house ALL the time and it has NOTHING to do with T-Mobile. It's not EDGE/GPRS--it's a totally different technology, just like hooking your wireless laptop up to your home router.
Furthermore, you can use the Wi-Fi with T-Mobile Hot Spots if you have that subscription with ANY Wi-Fi computer you have--no reason to have more than one Hot Spot account--many hotels now have it, not just Starbucks.
T-Mobile NOW forces you to pay for Hot Spots with Internet Service as a bundle but they are different technologies.
The Internet Service is EDGE/GPRS and that is a CELLULAR service and is programmed into your SIM chip. I use that too. My MDA can hook into eMail and web sites without a Wi-Fi connection via the cell modem. But it's not nearly as fast.
I actually have 2 SIM chips with this service--I got one for my old IPAQ6315, but that's in the MDA. The one in the MDA is in my notebook computer--it has a Cingular Sony Ericsson cellular modem that I got the unlock code for, and put the chip from the MDA in there--I ALSO can use my notebook with EDGE/GPRS, or Wi-Fi (or even RJ45) connections.
I have the eMail for my regular eMail routed to my MDA--no messing with another address. So it's working a lot like a Blackberry as well.
Finally, you asked if there's a cheaper alternative: There is. It's called "T-Zones" and it's T-Mo's WAP service, for $6 or $7/month. It gives you the limited access you get on cell phones, and you already have it with the fancier internet access--click on T-Zones and you'll see it.
Generally, with T-Mo, service is a waste of time till you get to Level 2. But if you get to Level 3, then you get the techs that really know their business. The PDA support can be similar. But you got to jump through a lot of hoops to reach that level and that can take 30-45 minutes on the phone. Be persistent.
dharvey4651 said:
That is really good to know. Can you tell me or direct me to a thread that explains the real difference between the 5.99 plan and the 19.99 Total Internet Package?
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the 19.99 plan gives you your actual connection to the GPRS/EDGE(and in 4 test markets 3G! T-Mobile bought a whole lot of 3g network up recently.) network (internet2.voicestream.com), by connecting thru this route you are given access to the ports required to get to full websites, as well as email servers, etc.
the 5.99 plan is your basic wap access, t-zones and other wap sites. It's what is used by motorola's, samsungs, basic phones. Gives you access to your account information from T-Mobile's wap sites (but not on an mda running less than wm6 and having had the tzones applett installed), accuweather's website, and other wap websites. By connecting thru the wap APN, you are directed thru a filter that doesn't allow you full access to normal websites.
Now, T-Mobile has a glitch in their system where every now and then you get 5.99 internet and your number isn't put into the filter, so the ports that were supposed to be closed off to you never were, and you can browse and email just as if you had the 19.99 feature. The only problem? They know of the glitch and are closing it market by market, which has been taking the better part of 7 months now, but it's not that far from being finished.
Almost all programs you have installed on the mda that are third party will default to what ever internet connection is available, however, the OZ instant messaging program from the MDA and almost all other T-Mobile PDA's is written specifically to use the SMS (short message system) as the next backup if you aren't connected thru the internet2.voicestream.com, or blackberry.net apn if you are using a blackberry, so if you are connected thru wifi, then you will be charged text for each message.
Hope this helps, if not, let me know.
Johnny
I just did a speedtest on my home internet connection, then did the exact same speedtest using my phone as my internet connection, and sinc eI have crappy DSL at home, my phone actually beat it. Home connection was around 1000/400kbps and phone was around 1500/600kbps.
So, my question is, since I never use my internet when I am away from home, can I ditch my home service and use my phone as the modem all the time when I am home?
I have the unlimited data plan from verizon, just added it a week ago...is there a limit? I heard back in 2007 there is a 5GB limit that they dont tell you about, but is there still an unspoken data limit on the unlimited plans? Thanks!!
P.S. - I download like 10-20GB a month of music (all legal through a paid subscrition service) and another 20-30gb a month via IRC transferring large project files when I work at home. Will that much data be a problem?? Will Verizon cut me off?
There is a 5GB limit on VZW's data plans.... So i would either upgrade services or change providers, but that wont help if you are far from the central office for your DSL service.
I spoke to a friend that works at verizon, he explained that after reaching the 5GB mark, there wont be any extra charges (as long as you have the unlimited data plan). But they will slow down the connection to something similar to a dialup speed.
I am not sure of the accuracy on this, but this is what they were instructed to say regarding it. Basically cellphone companies dont want you using their bandwidth to replace their home isp...
I am with sprint now, and so far I don't think they have added the 5GB cap... so I continue to use my cell as my isp, but if I see they slow the connection down, I will have to steal a wifi connection from one of my neighbors!!!
from what ive seen, they just cut your off completely. You dont get any more data that month if you break the 5GB limit. That is if you have their 5GB plan, if you have unlimited they cannot cut you off. period.
Also, i was not made aware of this 5GB landmark they set for unlimited users....
I have unlimited. Verizon does not have a "5gb plan", they only have 10mb and unlimited.
crobs808 said:
I have unlimited. Verizon does not have a "5gb plan", they only have 10mb and unlimited.
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Check this out Yodaman,
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...catId=409&action=viewPlanDisplay&planId=46740
they have a 5GB plan but i think its for wireless broadband and not necessarily for pda/smartphone browsing... i hear much talk about the national carriers moving to the 5GB cap... but I cant find anything solid on the subject...
aledc78 said:
Check this out Yodaman,
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...catId=409&action=viewPlanDisplay&planId=46740
they have a 5GB plan but i think its for wireless broadband and not necessarily for pda/smartphone browsing... i hear much talk about the national carriers moving to the 5GB cap... but I cant find anything solid on the subject...
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the 5gb plan is stand alone and apart from your phone service...you can get that if you have a VZcard for your laptop...but as far as "phone data plans" there isnt a 5gb one.
crobs808 said:
the 5gb plan is stand alone and apart from your phone service...you can get that if you have a VZcard for your laptop...but as far as "phone data plans" there isnt a 5gb one.
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cool...thanks...
I have considered to move to verizon based on the phone selection... but i pay so much less with sprint... so im sticking to them for now...
All of Verizon plans have a 5GB cap. I believe same with ATT and now soon to be Sprint. You cant run to anyone any more. My home connection is 10MB so going to Rev A VZW is not worth it. I use WIFI at home and VZW every where else.
Only tethered to laptop a few times...once with titan and once with friends 3G TILT... UNCOMPARABLE... took forever on TITAN...couldnt rely/put up with it daily..maby if i had 3g but i dont so I would stick having a seperate ISP
prepsssuck said:
Only tethered to laptop a few times...once with titan and once with friends 3G TILT... UNCOMPARABLE... took forever on TITAN...couldnt rely/put up with it daily..maby if we had 3g but we dont so I would stick having a seperate ISP
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Interesting.
At the office I tether my laptop to my XV-6800... it's faster than my companys' network. I've used it at hotels too. I don't know where you are located, but the places I've used it, it was as fast or faster than the networks I was sitting at.
I have spoken to VZW's tech reps in the past several months, they do have new data plans. BUT, our (or at least my) unlimited data plan is just that: Unlimited.
Splitter said:
Interesting.
At the office I tether my laptop to my XV-6800... it's faster than my companys' network. I've used it at hotels too. I don't know where you are located, but the places I've used it, it was as fast or faster than the networks I was sitting at.
I have spoken to VZW's tech reps in the past several months, they do have new data plans. BUT, our (or at least my) unlimited data plan is just that: Unlimited.
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Im in a NON-EVDO NON REV-A craphole...Everwhere 10 miles around the city I live in has EVDO...just not in the city. But even when I tried with evdo It still wasnt comparable.
When I got service at alltel they asked if I wanted to use as a modem for pc and if I was they wanted to charge an addition 9.99 a month for the service...even with my unlimited plan.... I have always heard that if they start seeing huge data downloads from your account they will try charging for it.....KEYWORD "HEARD"
I am actually having good luck using it as a modem. I still have landline internet thats faster. But for my laptop I use my titan with wifi to send internet to it. Seems okay..with download speeds of 50 kilobytes to 200 kilobytes a second depending where I am downloading from.
My biggest issue with it though is since its getting to summer..my phone is overheating from the strain so I gotta put a fan on it so it don't run out of battery.
I hope we won't be having this conversation in a year once sprint Wimax is available. Your Cable ISP is suppose to be providing wireless Wimax access for less ( I don't think greedy Communistcast will give it away for free). I heard one of the Cable ISP is already doing it in tri-state area. I can't recall their, read in paper few weeks ago. This way hard lined ISP will have fighting chance as oppose to fixed phone versus cellphones...
I seriously cant believe people think about replacing their home connections with their cell phone. I mean the phone is great and it is fast. But how quick we forget at least on verizon unless your paying near 60 a month for just the data plan with the 15 dollars for modem usage rights that we are teathering illegally. I teather my phone all the time with the hacked os its running but I dont abuse the connection I just browse the internet download smaller files and pictures and msg on it. ITs more of a connection for when your out traveling on the road or not at home and need an internet connection. I think its straight abuse of the connection to be pulling through 10 to 20 gigs a month on a cell phone network and its just asking for them to redflag your account and look into how your using all of your data. Id save my big downloading for a cable connection thats what they are designed for.
leedawg said:
I seriously cant believe people think about replacing their home connections with their cell phone. I mean the phone is great and it is fast. But how quick we forget at least on verizon unless your paying near 60 a month for just the data plan with the 15 dollars for modem usage rights that we are teathering illegally. I teather my phone all the time with the hacked os its running but I dont abuse the connection I just browse the internet download smaller files and pictures and msg on it. ITs more of a connection for when your out traveling on the road or not at home and need an internet connection. I think its straight abuse of the connection to be pulling through 10 to 20 gigs a month on a cell phone network and its just asking for them to redflag your account and look into how your using all of your data. Id save my big downloading for a cable connection thats what they are designed for.
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whoa buddy....you are getting taken to the cleaners, or duped by some customer service rep if they are charging you that....
quote: "60 a month for just the data plan with the 15 dollars for modem usage rights"
The national rate for VZW customers is $29.99 for unlimited data, including the use as a modem. The actual VZW repguy told me that he uses his as a modem to download stuff from rapidshare, and maxes out both his rapidshare premium accounts (which by the way have a 25gb limit every 5 days)...so that is a TON of data.I am here to dispell all the myths that they will cut you off if you use 'X' amount of data, or use it as a modem (which the rep also said many people do, which is fine)
FYI - the stock verizon rom came with internet sharing by the way, so it isnt a ROM hack to be able to use it as a modem, it is part of WM6!
People on here need to stop spreading rumors about how verizon will cut you off, and having limits on the unlimited plan, etc...they do no such thing.
gTen said:
...My biggest issue with it though is since its getting to summer..my phone is overheating from the strain so I gotta put a fan on it so it don't run out of battery.
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You gotta put a fan on it? what??? I live in Texas....it was 102 yesterday and 97 today and my phone is fine...do you live somewhere hotter?
crobs808 said:
whoa buddy....you are getting taken to the cleaners, or duped by some customer service rep if they are charging you that....
quote: "60 a month for just the data plan with the 15 dollars for modem usage rights"
The national rate for VZW customers is $29.99 for unlimited data, including the use as a modem. The actual VZW repguy told me that he uses his as a modem to download stuff from rapidshare, and maxes out both his rapidshare premium accounts (which by the way have a 25gb limit every 5 days)...so that is a TON of data.I am here to dispell all the myths that they will cut you off if you use 'X' amount of data, or use it as a modem (which the rep also said many people do, which is fine)
FYI - the stock verizon rom came with internet sharing by the way, so it isnt a ROM hack to be able to use it as a modem, it is part of WM6!
People on here need to stop spreading rumors about how verizon will cut you off, and having limits on the unlimited plan, etc...they do no such thing.
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here is a quote from the old terms of use:
Anyone using more than 5 GB per line in a given month is presumed to be using the service in a manner prohibited above, and we reserve the right to immediately terminate the service of any such person without notice.
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here are the new terms:
If your usage on a Data Plan or Feature that does not include a specific monthly Megabyte allowance or that is not billed on a pay-as-you-use basis exceeds 5 Gigabytes per account line during any billing period, we reserve the right to reduce throughput speed to a maximum of approximately 200 Kilobits per second for up to thirty days.
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currently vzw chrages 49 cents per mb over 5gb, this doesnt appear to be a rumor, as theyve recently been sued over it
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localn...epaper/2008/07/06/c1b_cellphonesuit_0707.html
supposedly sprint is going to start a similar billing system sometime this month
also, besides all this, using the data plan as a replacement for a landline connection is specifically against the terms and conditions
Data Plans and Features: Prohibited Uses.
You may not use our Data Plans and Features for illegal purposes or purposes that infringe upon others’ intellectual property rights, or in a manner that interferes with other users’ service, interferes with the network’s ability to fairly allocate capacity among users, or that otherwise degrades service quality for other users. Examples of prohibited usage include: (i) server devices or host computer applications, including continuous Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file-sharing applications that are broadcast to multiple servers or recipients such that they could enable “bots” or similar routines (as set forth in more detail in (iii) below) or otherwise denigrate network capacity or functionality; (ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections; (iii) “auto-responders,” “cancel-bots,” or similar automated or manual routines that generate amounts of net traffic that could disrupt net user groups or e-mail use by others; (iv) generating “spam” or unsolicited commercial or bulk e-mail (or activities that facilitate the dissemination of such e-mail); (v) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other users or systems to use either Verizon Wireless’ services or the Internet-based resources of others, including the generation or dissemination of viruses, malware, or “denial of service” attacks; (vi) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the information, accounts or devices of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, Verizon Wireless’ or another entity’s network or systems; or (vii) running software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer’s connection would otherwise be idle, or “keep alive” functions, unless they adhere to Verizon Wireless’ requirements for such usage, which may be changed from time to time. By way of example only, you may not use a Data Plan or Feature for web broadcasting, or for the operation of servers, telemetry devices and/or Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition devices.
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....of course i use my sprint connection as a backup when my cable is out, im just making sure people understand that they are in fact breaking rules and shouldnt get pissed if they get nailed for it
defaultdotxbe said:
Data Plans and Features: Prohibited Uses.
You may not use our Data Plans and Features for illegal purposes or purposes that infringe upon others’ intellectual property rights, or in a manner that interferes with other users’ service, interferes with the network’s ability to fairly allocate capacity among users, or that otherwise degrades service quality for other users. Examples of prohibited usage include: (i) server devices or host computer applications, including continuous Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file-sharing applications that are broadcast to multiple servers or recipients such that they could enable “bots” or similar routines (as set forth in more detail in (iii) below) or otherwise denigrate network capacity or functionality; (ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections; (iii) “auto-responders,” “cancel-bots,” or similar automated or manual routines that generate amounts of net traffic that could disrupt net user groups or e-mail use by others; (iv) generating “spam” or unsolicited commercial or bulk e-mail (or activities that facilitate the dissemination of such e-mail); (v) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other users or systems to use either Verizon Wireless’ services or the Internet-based resources of others, including the generation or dissemination of viruses, malware, or “denial of service” attacks; (vi) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the information, accounts or devices of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, Verizon Wireless’ or another entity’s network or systems; or (vii) running software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer’s connection would otherwise be idle, or “keep alive” functions, unless they adhere to Verizon Wireless’ requirements for such usage, which may be changed from time to time. By way of example only, you may not use a Data Plan or Feature for web broadcasting, or for the operation of servers, telemetry devices and/or Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition devices.
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Ha...did you read that ENTIRE section of what is prohibited? Nowhere in there does it talk about restricting modem use. In fact, it only talks about the most extreme stuff like copyright infringement, bots, using it to HOST a p2p sharing protocol, or using it for security/suveilance services, etc...
The reason they do not address modem usage is because it is 100% ALLOWED!
There is actually a verizon advertisment where a guy is frustrated in an airport and cannot get a wireless connection. He pulls out his WiFi PCMCIA card, throws it in a trash bin, and hits a button on his phone. Verizon is SELLING the fact that you can use their phones as internet connections. For crying out loud, the slogan on the ad was "Internet. Anywhere. Anytime." and it shows the guy still there at night browsing the net, in a dark airport and nobody is around.
I mean obviously they have changed their policy since NOTHING in that paragraph you wrote talks about limiting data usage, and the Verizon Rep specifically told me that there is no 5gb cap anymore, and there hasn't been since November. That case you linked is a year old now. Data usage and plans have evolved a TON in a year...plus, that is when the case was filed...they were suing over something that happened well OVER a year ago, so even more has changed.
Get with it bud Things have changed, no 5gb cap/limit, and unlimited = use however you want as long as it isn't illegal (same as the rules on a home ISP connection)
crobs808 said:
Ha...did you read that ENTIRE section of what is prohibited? Nowhere in there does it talk about restricting modem use. In fact, it only talks about the most extreme stuff like copyright infringement, bots, using it to HOST a p2p sharing protocol, or using it for security/suveilance services, etc...
The reason they do not address modem usage is because it is 100% ALLOWED!
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did you read the bit i bolded about it being used a replacement for landlines?
how about the part about it being cut to 200k after 5gb?
The reason they do not address modem usage is because it is 100% ALLOWED!
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im not talking about tethering charges, im talking about data usage regardless of how its being used
Get with it bud Things have changed, no 5gb cap/limit, and unlimited = use however you want as long as it isn't illegal (same as the rules on a home ISP connection)
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did you read the news article about the guy who got a 9500 dollar bill for going over the 5gb cap? can you explain that? or is that just a risk everyone should be willing to take?
got a text at 12:08am saying it may be shut off and then at 12:19am they did.
thanks T-Mobile for nothing i got this phone just for that reason (hd2 leo)
If your contract states tethering is allowed then point that out to them and demand they reinstate it.
Similarly if it doesn't mention it at all, or doesn't say they can withdraw unlisted services.
If it states it is not allowed then go sit on the naughty step you bad boy. Then call them and sign up for their tethering tarrif which other members in your position have mentioned.
I know I have unlimited with them and have tethered a good bit. I even had a rep say something to the effect " wow looks like you use your data plan !" and no other word was said. Usually when you get those texts it's because you haven't paid the bill.
Not saying you haven't payed it but you might want to make sure they see it as up to date. You may have exceeded your plans limit? You might want to check into that.
I have not checked my T&C, but am pretty sure that with T-Mobile in the UK, using your data connection for tethering is an extra cost and is thus not allowed on the normal data connction. I have a friend (what do you mean imaginary?) who uses their phone as their main connection to the internet for their computer for the last 4+ years and T-Mobile haven't written to her.
Curious, how can they stop tethering? This is a legit question from the technical side of things. I was under the impression that tethering is a local phone function which ports data to and from the attached computer. Other than your service provider noting data usage, how can they determine what you have attached to your phone?
Experienced XDA Guru's, please enlighten me!
are you sure that you are not past due?
GulDucat said:
Curious, how can they stop tethering? This is a legit question from the technical side of things. I was under the impression that tethering is a local phone function which ports data to and from the attached computer. Other than your service provider noting data usage, how can they determine what you have attached to your phone?
Experienced XDA Guru's, please enlighten me!
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Uhmm because when you are browsing the web you are sending information about what type of system you are using. If you are browsing with your phone the information being sent and requested is for a phone's OS or mobile web site. When you are tethering you are sending and requesting information for a PC. It's that simple.
OP here
My bill is up to date and paid, have yet to call and chew them out, but I got this phone just for that reason so it should be in my agreement (no contract just bought the phone outright)
but fyi when I try to tether with either the usb or wifi it comes up with a page on my browser(on my comp) of a t-mobile website saying that its no supported and to call for a the +$14.99
heres a pic of it
QazQaz3 said:
OP here
My bill is up to date and paid, have yet to call and chew them out, but I got this phone just for that reason so it should be in my agreement (no contract just bought the phone outright)
but fyi when I try to tether with either the usb or wifi it comes up with a page on my browser(on my comp) of a t-mobile website saying that its no supported and to call for a the +$14.99
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so are you using a stock rom? I am very curious as to weather they are only picking up the usage data from stock roms or custom roms as well.
Thanks,
Jeff
innovator8 said:
so are you using a stock rom? I am very curious as to weather they are only picking up the usage data from stock roms or custom roms as well.
Thanks,
Jeff
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does not matter what rom you use as they can analyze the data packets sent along from the phone via packet sniffing. As noted above your browers sends all sorts of information such as OS and browser in use
see more here
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/pki/psm/help_21/privacy_help.html#privacy_visit
innovator8 said:
so are you using a stock rom? I am very curious as to weather they are only picking up the usage data from stock roms or custom roms as well.
Thanks,
Jeff
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yeah, stock but a few cabs on top (cookies and similar)
called T-Mobile and all they said was that they have "never" supported tethering but yet when asked then why was it on my phone when i bought it they quickly changed the subject.
2. Protective Measures
To provide a good experience for the majority of our customers and minimize capacity issues and degradation in network performance, we may take measures including temporarily reducing data throughput for a subset of customers who use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth; if your total usage exceeds 5GB (amount is subject to change; please periodically check T-Mobile.com for updates) during a billing cycle, we may reduce your data speed for the remainder of that billing cycle. We may also suspend, terminate, or restrict your data session, Plan, or service if you use your Data Plan in a manner that interferes with other customers’ service, our ability to allocate network capacity among customers, or that otherwise may degrade service quality for other customers.
http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/Popup.aspx?PAsset=Pln_Lst_DataPlan
Try changing the apn to internet2.voicestream.com
Some users from the vibrant section seem to get it working again
The internet2 apn does work, but is not as good as the epc apn in terms of quality. Speed is fine. I keep getting time outs and all my IM programs go haywire sometimes. wap apn is affected. Have not tried the internet3 apn (vpn)
I'm on Energy ROM and decided to try turning off my LAN and turn on USB Tethering from my HD2 just to see what would happen (TMOUS), working fine as usual, no problems and no errors. Streaming Jim Rome, checking my email, and posting this reply all tethered.
Maybe try flashing NRG and see what happens?
Maybe t-mobile did this manually maybe you kept tethering and passing 3gb led them to believe your tethering. I use alot of data on my phone and I only gotten close to 2.5gb max so maybe their checking people who are using more than certain amount of data to get them to pay for the tethering plan but who knows I'm just wondering.
Don't know if this is new or not, but I cant recall seeing it before, but when you open the Mobile AP tethering app, it says something about contacting At&t to sign up for a special plan in order to use it?
What is THAT all about? It's been working for me since I first installed a 2.2 rom over a month ago and this evening for some reason, my PS3 and my computer both lost connection. I go to the Mobile AP app which has been powering both devices and I see this At&t crap and now my connection to both no longer works?!?!
Anyone with insight on this?
Are you on AT&T...?
-bZj
The same thing was happening to people who were using tethering apps from the market.
I'm just gonna take a stab in the dark on this one. My understanding is that the only way a carrier can tell if your tethering is based on watching your http:// activity. In other words, are you browsing mobile sites or full sites. I think the only people they'd even look for are heavy users.
Probably what happened is that they realized (through traffic) that you were hitting up http:// and assume your tethering. The only thing you could probably do is to call them and tell them you aren't tethering. Do you get the message if you use something like the SkyFire Browser to go to say the full blown facebook website?
KWKSLVR said:
The same thing was happening to people who were using tethering apps from the market.
I'm just gonna take a stab in the dark on this one. My understanding is that the only way a carrier can tell if your tethering is based on watching your http:// activity. In other words, are you browsing mobile sites or full sites. I think the only people they'd even look for are heavy users.
Probably what happened is that they realized (through traffic) that you were hitting up http:// and assume your tethering. The only thing you could probably do is to call them and tell them you aren't tethering. Do you get the message if you use something like the SkyFire Browser to go to say the full blown facebook website?
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They can actually tell packet by packet if it originated as a phone packet or a tethered data packet. When tethered the phone acts as a modem and it identifies the traffic as modem traffic. They are designed to hit different APNs and the header of the packets themselves are by design dead giveaways. It is rudimentary networking for them to route or track this traffic differently. This said they usually don't bother to worry about it much unless they see abuse from a particular account.
I would bet this is a glitch and is not intentional. It will be interesting to see how this develops.
down8 said:
Are you on AT&T...?
-bZj
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I suppose it would make sense to me if I was on AT&T, but I'm on T-mobile lol.
That's the confusing part!
T mobile has been blocking people lately as well...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Had it during the onyx/obsidian era of roms... never had an issue actually using the mobile ap. I think it was just the rip of the settings app from samsung. It's gone on nero, and I wouldn't worry about it.
Had those issues on the 2.1 custom ROMs. Since Nero, no disconnects whatsoever. Be it wired or wireless tether.
T313C0mun1s7 said:
They can actually tell packet by packet if it originated as a phone packet or a tethered data packet. When tethered the phone acts as a modem and it identifies the traffic as modem traffic. They are designed to hit different APNs and the header of the packets themselves are by design dead giveaways. It is rudimentary networking for them to route or track this traffic differently. This said they usually don't bother to worry about it much unless they see abuse from a particular account.
I would bet this is a glitch and is not intentional. It will be interesting to see how this develops.
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That's what my non-technical brain was trying to say. A buddy of mine explained it to me the exact same way but added that running a script to look at http traffic might be easier than sniffing packets? And most likely a carrier probably wouldn't go looking for it in accounts that aren't being bandwidth hogs. (Although he's an IT Network Guru and not a cell expert and admittedly made some assumptions). Thanks for the info.
I tether seldomly (I have a MiFi for work) but a couple of months back I tethered through the Vibrant one Saturday and streamed over 6 gigs of video from ESPN360. I never heard a peep out of them (I'm usually right around a gig/month).
KWKSLVR said:
That's what my non-technical brain was trying to say. A buddy of mine explained it to me the exact same way but added that running a script to look at http traffic might be easier than sniffing packets? And most likely a carrier probably wouldn't go looking for it in accounts that aren't being bandwidth hogs. (Although he's an IT Network Guru and not a cell expert and admittedly made some assumptions). Thanks for the info.
I tether seldomly (I have a MiFi for work) but a couple of months back I tethered through the Vibrant one Saturday and streamed over 6 gigs of video from ESPN360. I never heard a peep out of them (I'm usually right around a gig/month).
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In networking we have what we call the 7 Layer OSI model. Layer 1 is the physical media, Layer 2 is hardware such as the MAC address, At layer three you get into IP and routing, all the way up to Layer 7 which is application and you can actually filter based on the program being run, for example you can deny any traffic to or from uTorrent.
In enterprise networking Layer 7 gear is now quite common. I am not sure what level T-mobile is using in their switching equipment, but I do know that telling if the traffic is phone or modem is all the way down at the hardware layer. So no packet sniffing would be required. All they need to do is set a policy in the equipment and it will get enforced automatically. Doing it on a customer by customer basis is slightly more complicated as it has to involve the billing system. The billing system is where they are going to control all the non-global settings. This is why they let non-abusers go. Technically stopping you is trivial, but it is not the network admins making the decision, so it becomes part of the can of worms that is politics, policy, and customer service.
Well now that's one hell of an explanation!
KWKSLVR said:
Well now that's one hell of an explanation!
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Thank you. As a Tech I am very well versed in networking and computers with a lot of specific experience in Stand Alone Wireless & Wireless as a service provider, Fiber-to-the-home, Voice over IP, multi-scope/multi-tenant office building as phone and Internet provider, and I even did the worlds first (un-offical) VoIP over Wireless in a production environment. The reason I have had the fun and fortune of getting to do these types of projects though is because I really shine in being able to make the really technical stuff that causes most peoples eyes to gloss over actually make sense to non-technical laypersons. Also, I do it without giving wrong or too overly simplified information.
I think everyone at some level likes to know how stuff really works, they just don't want to have to learn and entirely new paradigm to do it.
Well all is well again. Mobile AP is working fine. Don't know what happened yesterday, but it's all good now.
Thanks for the replies.
what is nero
what is Nero are you talking about the burning software or somthing different?
pjbbigbear44 said:
what is Nero are you talking about the burning software or somthing different?
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Head over to the Vibrant Android Development section. Nero is just one of many Vibrant ROMs. Check them out.
They're looking at the HTTP "USER AGENT" string folks.
It APPEARS that they're only doing it on "newer" accounts and/or data options. Thus far. Incidentally, if they start doing it on those of us with legacy data plans (e.g. "Total Internet") they're going to lose those customers, as we were explicitly sold those plans with the understanding and explicit support of tethering that they built into the devices they sold through "Internet Sharing" (e.g. on the MDA, etc.) Same with "Loyalty Android" that many of us converted to before Tethering became "an option".
It's cool to change the rules for later signups and users, but a serious problem if they try to impose it on people who have been customers for a long time under the previous understanding. And most of us, myself included, are off-contract.
I don't abuse it but if they do it to me I'll be gone in literal minutes.
Genesis3 said:
They're looking at the HTTP "USER AGENT" string folks.
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I'd be interested to find this out definitively. They could check USER_AGENT and they can definitely see if multiple devices are nat'd behind the phone. But I don't know of anything they can use to see if just ONE device is behind a nat'd gateway aside from checking USER_AGENT and making an educated guess.
Wonder if we can get iptables to mangle the HTTP_USER agent or something to that effect.
There are ways around the user agent check (with the proper browser), but they may cause your computer to display web sites in a "mobile" format.
My cable modem went down for a couple of days and while I waited for the cable company to come out I used my Mobile AP. I've been using it on and off during some of my many travels either by using the Mobile AP or by using one of the other apps that someone made.
I have never been charged more for using it and have only been warned of the throttling, which actually never happened. If there was any slow down I would just jump down to 2.75G and go from there.
Hello
I have an International Note 3 (unlocked, unbranded) Exynos (N900).
I would like to know whether there is a difference in the tethering support / method / features of the stock tethering feature vs. using a 3rd party App like PDANet+ etc.
The reason for my question: I have an uncapped data plan as part of my mobile package, but I am not sure if tethered usage (to my PC) is allowed and whether I am safe (won't be charged extra) while tethering through the stock setting?
Please, any advice is appreciated.
If your carrier is anything like Three and O2 in the UK - As soon as you start tethering they pick up on it and send you a message about it informing you that tethering is not permitted, need to get the right plan etc and they D/C your mobile net for 30minutes. Only way to test is to try really
You need to figure out whether you have tethering included in the plan. If you don't then in terms of it being "safe" to tether, you're violating the terms of your agreement with your mobile carrier (at least in the States, don't know how the rest of the world works) if you attempt to mask tethering as regular data usage. If however the carrier has specifically either said they don't care whether you tether, or that tethering is allowed as part of your mobile data, then you're safe to tether however you so choose.
The last thing you want to do is do nothing. You're not harmed at all by verifying with your carrier. Five minutes on Google is enough to demonstrate the possible negative side effects of tethering without checking first:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1706143
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2204186
Also worth noting that I've seen some "Root your phone and tether with a third party! They'll never know!" solutions that have definitely not been solutions. I prefer playing it safe to doing something that could really cause me a lot of problems. Most carriers you can pay ten or twenty bucks a month extra, lock in a tethering option, set a data limit on your phone, and have peace of mind.
radicalisto said:
If your carrier is anything like Three and O2 in the UK - As soon as you start tethering they pick up on it and send you a message about it informing you that tethering is not permitted, need to get the right plan etc and they D/C your mobile net for 30minutes. Only way to test is to try really
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I am on Telkom Mobile (South Africa) - the first carrier to have an unlimited package here in SA (unlimited calls, sms, data...) and unfortunately there is very little documentation on the package. No info about tethering as such. I also have not received any warning messages or anything.
BewareAlbatross said:
You need to figure out whether you have tethering included in the plan. If you don't then in terms of it being "safe" to tether, you're violating the terms of your agreement with your mobile carrier (at least in the States, don't know how the rest of the world works) if you attempt to mask tethering as regular data usage. If however the carrier has specifically either said they don't care whether you tether, or that tethering is allowed as part of your mobile data, then you're safe to tether however you so choose.
Also worth noting that I've seen some "Root your phone and tether with a third party! They'll never know!" solutions that have definitely not been solutions. I prefer playing it safe to doing something that could really cause me a lot of problems. Most carriers you can pay ten or twenty bucks a month extra, lock in a tethering option, set a data limit on your phone, and have peace of mind.
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What I am interested in is that, for example PDANet claims they have a feature that fools the mobile network that the data packets look like they are from the handset, and not the tethered PC. So I was wondering if Samsung's default tethering does the same, or how does the different tethering options handle the data packets differently..
But thanks anyway folks, I am not looking to violate anything by downloading excessive amounts of data, it is just for that odd time that I need internet on my laptop.
LubbeSGS said:
I am on Telkom Mobile (South Africa) - the first carrier to have an unlimited package here in SA (unlimited calls, sms, data...) and unfortunately there is very little documentation on the package. No info about tethering as such. I also have not received any warning messages or anything.
What I am interested in is that, for example PDANet claims they have a feature that fools the mobile network that the data packets look like they are from the handset, and not the tethered PC. So I was wondering if Samsung's default tethering does the same, or how does the different tethering options handle the data packets differently..
But thanks anyway folks, I am not looking to violate anything by downloading excessive amounts of data, it is just for that odd time that I need internet on my laptop.
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The best way to look at it is: If the tethering feature you use (WiFi, USB, Bluetooth, etc...) shows up on your monthly statement as separate tethering usage, than it doesn't violate TOS. If it was supposed to show up separately and it shows up lumped into data usage, then you're probably violating TOS. So if you're not sure and you don't know what the policies of your carrier are, then using any service that tries to mask that the data is being carried over to another device is probably bad.
That being said, there are grey examples. For example, one carrier I use, T-Mobile, allows BYOD. They market that quite heavily. So I brought my own device, a rooted Nexus 4. Since it's unlocked and under my own ownership and not leased from a carrier I can make toast out of it or use it for exploratory nasal surgery, T-Mobile has no ability to have a problem with what I do with it so long as it doesn't do naughty things to the telecom itself.
I have contacted them repeatedly to bring up the fact that my Nexus 4, with no attempt at being sneaky whatsoever, using the default tethering features, sometimes arbitrarily shows up as hotspot data and sometimes doesn't. They have yet to figure out a solution or send me an app I can install. I have always been up front about this weirdness, and they have in return never bothered me about abnormal bills weighted either one way or another.
One other thing you could do is you could pick up one of those handy prepaid USB mobile broadband sticks from a MVNO or whatnot, where when you want Internet you just pay a few bucks and it gives you a certain amount of gigs, and when you consume them you can just pay for another block. Then if you don't need it again for three months just throw it in a drawer. Really useful.