Related
I wonder how strict they are on this policy. Love the phone and really think it can do alot more like its younger cousins. But I wonder at what line a unlocked bootloader voids warranty. With the MyTouch 3G or g1 I really never worried about doing it because it I messed up or something went wrong I know I can convince T-Mobile to replace it but with HTC, say a volume button stops working do you think with an unlocked bootloader they won't do anything and charge you or is it probably just a scare tatic. Might hold off for root till a few months later to see if we get a img file to do a full restore or not but not ready to risk it just yet. Or atleast till there are some good roms yet. Just still in love with it since i just got it and maybe when that wares off I will root. But do you know of anywhere if anything HTC has stated anything about this.
You cant know for sure until you send it in. But the text is clear, it will void your warranty. which means ALL the warranty. Your warranty is not broken up into separate parts.
Warranties are, legally, broken into separate parts.
The manufacturer has to prove that what you modified actually relates to the warranty issue.
If you have a hardware issue, HTC would have to PROVE that your software contributed to the damage to be able to void your warranty.
Magnusson-Moss Act, is the law you'd look-up, I believe.
-bZj
down8 said:
Warranties are, legally, broken into separate parts.
The manufacturer has to prove that what you modified actually relates to the warranty issue.
If you have a hardware issue, HTC would have to PROVE that your software contributed to the damage to be able to void your warranty.
Magnusson-Moss Act, is the law you'd look-up, I believe.
-bZj
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you give a source to back this up? Im gonna unlock my bootloader right now if this is true!
Heck ya... this is what everyones real concern is, IMO. (Well I guess I can't talk for everyone but..) I take responsibility if I unlock and then some how brick, yes I'll be upset but it is my fault. However my real concern is if I unlock and then there is a real hardware problem.
yeah- the way i read the post in cyanogens bacon thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=5306428&postcount=54
"Obviously there's probably little to deter people from digging into this, but for whatever it's worth it was quite a lot of effort to get buy-in for shipping with the "unlock" feature, there remains concern about potential increases in RMAs as a result (and thus the warranty language in the unlock process)."
i read this as saying that they expect more warranty returns due to the easy unlock but not by much. Does this mean that we can return the phone if we have a hardware issue unrelated to the lock? i dont expect it and never have (rooted both my G1 and my magic the day i got them) but it'd be nice to know.....
dunno, insurance companies have been able to "void your warranty" (coverage of your health) if something totally unrelated was not announced when you got your insurance.
melterx12 said:
can you give a source to back this up? Im gonna unlock my bootloader right now if this is true!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did: the Magnusson-Moss Act.
Blueman101 said:
dunno, insurance companies have been able to "void your warranty" (coverage of your health) if something totally unrelated was not announced when you got your insurance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a disclosure issue - hiding something is different.
-bZj
down8 said:
Warranties are, legally, broken into separate parts.
The manufacturer has to prove that what you modified actually relates to the warranty issue.
If you have a hardware issue, HTC would have to PROVE that your software contributed to the damage to be able to void your warranty.
Magnusson-Moss Act, is the law you'd look-up, I believe.
-bZj
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's interesting. Now we just need to read the N1's warranty, and see if there is any similar thing to that(because they can always have some clause that says the bootloader being unlocked voids all parts of the warranty).
down8 said:
Warranties are, legally, broken into separate parts.
The manufacturer has to prove that what you modified actually relates to the warranty issue.
If you have a hardware issue, HTC would have to PROVE that your software contributed to the damage to be able to void your warranty.
Magnusson-Moss Act, is the law you'd look-up, I believe.
-bZj
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. Not to sound like an ass, but I'm a 3rd year law student and have studied contracts, their making, and causes for breach, extensively. The warranty is not "legally broken into separate parts". Please don't make such inane statements.
First, warranties are legally binding contracts and are considered "integrated agreements". That means that a court will automatically hold that the document and whatever provisions are included therein are the entire warranty, UNLESS you can prove that there were additional documents or forms that you relied on. That's not the case here.
Second, if you read the warranty, item 7 (on p. 3-4 of the booklet included in the N1 box) explicitly states that "THIS LIMITED WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF:"... then lists several conditions, ending with 7(h) "the bootloader is unlocked by the Customer (allowing third party OS installation) using the fastboot program." This is an express term in the warranty, so the warranty is void. At this point, the only way you'd be able to get out of it, is if you were to argue to the courts that you never read the warranty and if you had, you either wouldn't have unlocked it, or you wouldn't have kept the phone! This is what's called an "unconscionability" argument. Even in this case though, most courts will side with the company due to the long-established doctrine of caveat emptor (buyer beware), and the court would first ask if you know how to read, and if you say yes, then it would hold that it was your responsibility to read the warranty and you have no excuse. Maybe some court would hold to the contrary. But that's why HTC was smart enough to include an express waiver...
Third, before unlocking the bootloader, you explicitly had to accept that your warranty was void if you unlocked it! No court anywhere would ever let you out of this.
As for Magnusson-Moss (we studied this as well), it's not at all related to this conversation! I don't know where the **** you come up with this information. All it does is create a federal mandate for companies to conspicuously state whether any warranty is "full" or "limited". Most warranties, including HTC's, are limited warranties. M-M further states that if there are any ambiguous terms in a warranty, that they will be interpreted in favor of the customer. However, this doesn't apply to this case either, because it is completely unambiguous in two different places!
It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.... you don't understand the law, and probably have never really tried (it's not rocket science, I can assure you). Your improper claims can seriously screw someone over if they lose their warranty based on your incorrect assumptions then end up needing it for a defective phone!
uansari1 said:
Wrong. Not to sound like an ass, but I'm a 3rd year law student and have studied contracts, their making, and causes for breach, extensively. The warranty is not "legally broken into separate parts". Please don't make such inane statements.
First, warranties are legally binding contracts and are considered "integrated agreements". That means that a court will automatically hold that the document and whatever provisions are included therein are the entire warranty, UNLESS you can prove that there were additional documents or forms that you relied on. That's not the case here.
Second, if you read the warranty, item 7 (on p. 3-4 of the booklet included in the N1 box) explicitly states that "THIS LIMITED WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY IF:"... then lists several conditions, ending with 7(h) "the bootloader is unlocked by the Customer (allowing third party OS installation) using the fastboot program." This is an express term in the warranty, so the warranty is void. At this point, the only way you'd be able to get out of it, is if you were to argue to the courts that you never read the warranty and if you had, you either wouldn't have unlocked it, or you wouldn't have kept the phone! This is what's called an "unconscionability" argument. Even in this case though, most courts will side with the company due to the long-established doctrine of caveat emptor (buyer beware), and the court would first ask if you know how to read, and if you say yes, then it would hold that it was your responsibility to read the warranty and you have no excuse. Maybe some court would hold to the contrary. But that's why HTC was smart enough to include an express waiver...
Third, before unlocking the bootloader, you explicitly had to accept that your warranty was void if you unlocked it! No court anywhere would ever let you out of this.
As for Magnusson-Moss (we studied this as well), it's not at all related to this conversation! I don't know where the **** you come up with this information. All it does is create a federal mandate for companies to conspicuously state whether any warranty is "full" or "limited". Most warranties, including HTC's, are limited warranties. M-M further states that if there are any ambiguous terms in a warranty, that they will be interpreted in favor of the customer. However, this doesn't apply to this case either, because it is completely unambiguous in two different places!
It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.... you don't understand the law, and probably have never really tried (it's not rocket science, I can assure you). Your improper claims can seriously screw someone over if they lose their warranty based on your incorrect assumptions then end up needing it for a defective phone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers for the info. However, couldnt it be constituted as an "unfair term". For example, if HTC said the warranty was void if you took the phone outside, this would be ridiculous. Since smartphones are being marketed more as mobile computers, surely it is "unfair" not to be able to modify the operating system, much as you can do with a pc, without warranty for the hardware being voided?
Ronaldo7 said:
Cheers for the info. However, couldnt it be constituted as an "unfair term". For example, if HTC said the warranty was void if you took the phone outside, this would be ridiculous. Since smartphones are being marketed more as mobile computers, surely it is "unfair" not to be able to modify the operating system, much as you can do with a pc, without warranty for the hardware being voided?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's no point trying to skittle round the point. At the end of the day, if you interfere with the software they placed there which has been extensively tested; why would they support unlocked/modified software which they have no idea how it'll affect the device? That's quite simple to understand and I can see why Google have done this. It's to protect them.
Computer firmware/drivers is different. They test drivers and encourage you to upgrade them to keep the product working as best they can. When an end-user creates modified untested firmware/drivers, this is different.
I'm sure there's a comprehensive warranty on computer devices which stops you applying modified software not supported by them.
TunsterX2 said:
There's no point trying to skittle round the point. At the end of the day, if you interfere with the software they placed there which has been extensively tested; why would they support unlocked/modified software which they have no idea how it'll affect the device? That's quite simple to understand and I can see why Google have done this. It's to protect them.
Computer firmware/drivers is different. They test drivers and encourage you to upgrade them to keep the product working as best they can. When an end-user creates modified untested firmware/drivers, this is different.
I'm sure there's a comprehensive warranty on computer devices which stops you applying modified software not supported by them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate what you're saying, but as long as you can prove that any modification made cannot have caused a specific failure, then Id be interested to see how a blanket "warranty void" statement would hold up in court. For example, a button/ trackball wont fall off due to unauthorized software being on the device, whereas a chip failure could be attributed to modifying firmware etc.
Ronaldo7 said:
Cheers for the info. However, couldnt it be constituted as an "unfair term". For example, if HTC said the warranty was void if you took the phone outside, this would be ridiculous. Since smartphones are being marketed more as mobile computers, surely it is "unfair" not to be able to modify the operating system, much as you can do with a pc, without warranty for the hardware being voided?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know much about American law (I am a Trainee Solicitor, but in the UK) but I can tell you that this isn't going to come close to the legal definition of "unfair".
Warranties (at least over here) are entirely at the option of the manufacturer. If they want to have it fall away when you unlock the boot loader then it'll fall away when you unlock the bootloader. I've drafted one recently that does pretty much just that. They aren't required to provide one at all and what they put in it is thier choice. You are afforded most of your rights through sale of goods legislation and they are against the seller for things like goods not being of a satisfactory quality.
It may be that in US some minimum warranty is imposed by statute? With some set of minimum conditions? You'll need someone else to confirm that. However even if that is the case I'd bet any money that those minimum conditions basically equate to "you have to be able to use it as a PDA/Phone". At the end of the day you don't NEED to be able to unlock the boot loader to do that.
BigDamHero said:
I don't know much about American law (I am a Trainee Solicitor, but in the UK) but I can tell you that this isn't going to come close to the legal definition of "unfair".
Warranties (at least over here) are entirely at the option of the manufacturer. If they want to have it fall away when you unlock the boot loader then it'll fall away when you unlock the bootloader. I've drafted one recently that does pretty much just that. They aren't required to provide one at all and what they put in it is thier choice. You are afforded most of your rights through sale of goods legislation and they are against the seller for things like goods not being of a satisfactory quality.
It may be that in US some minimum warranty is imposed by statute? With some set of minimum conditions? You'll need someone else to confirm that. However even if that is the case I'd bet any money that those minimum conditions basically equate to "you have to be able to use it as a PDA/Phone". At the end of the day you don't NEED to be able to unlock the boot loader to do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the reason I didnt mention the sales of goods act is because I dont think this applies since the phone is being bought in the US. As you say, warranties in the UK are in addition to the sales of goods act. Are you saying that if the phone was purchased from , say, google.co.uk in the future, the sales of goods act could be invoked for any hardware failure (respecting the fact that the onus is on the retailer (ie. google) to prove that any software tampering of the device caused the defect within the first 6months of purchase)?
Ronaldo7 said:
Yeah, the reason I didnt mention the sales of goods act is because I dont think this applies since the phone is being bought in the US. As you say, warranties in the UK are in addition to the sales of goods act. Are you saying that if the phone was purchased from , say, google.co.uk in the future, the sales of goods act could be invoked for any hardware failure (respecting the fact that the onus is on the retailer (ie. google) to prove that any software tampering of the device caused the defect within the first 6months of purchase)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I believe this is correct. If you got a phone from Google UK, rooted it and then it fell to pieces the next day you would be able to go back and return it because it was not of satisfactory quality. As you rightly say it would of course have to be something other than your actions that caused the failure - some kind of inherent defect. But as long as that is the case the manufacturer’s warranty is irrelevant. A lot of people don’t realise this and once they see a warranty they forget that, at least in the short term after purchase, they have a valid action against the person who sold them the goods.
Good right? Well here’s the other shoe – The problem with the Sale of Goods Act (and a lot of consumer legislation) is that its all so vague. “Satisfactory Quality”, “Reasonable Length of Time”. It leaves most people wondering what the heck that all means! You mention 6 months but this is just a rule of thumb. It doesn’t actually say that anywhere in the act.
So in contrast to a warranty, where you have a definitive answer going in on whether you have a claim or not, the Sale of Goods Act is a bit more uncertain. You have to make your claim a bit more. If your screen falls off around the 5 months mark its possible Google would try and resist the claim, saying too much time has passed. If something goes wrong with your phone that could or could not have been something to do with you rooting it (with no way of determining it either way) – again Google may resist your claim.
I am ... 99% certain that there is NO applicability of any of the above to something sold in the US and shipped to the UK. However I'll have to look into that for a definitive answer.
http://www.google.com/support/android/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=166519
What kind of things can void the warranty coverage?
Here are a few examples of actions that void the warranty coverage:
* rough handling of the device
* exposure of the device to extreme conditions
* tampering with the device, including removal or defacing of the serial number, IMEI number, or water indicator
* unauthorized opening or repair of the device
* tampering with or short-circuiting the battery
* unlocking the bootloader using the fastboot program
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seeing as the warranty is so specific as in using "the fastboot program" instead of "a fastboot program" does using "fastboot-windows or fastboot-mac" fall outside of that. Cases are routinely decided upon by mere technicalities as this. I deal with warranties all the time (as a manufacturer) and have had to eat replacement costs due to technicalities in the warranty verbiage.
Unfortunately, this does not carry over to the big disclaimer that you see when unlocking, but was wondering if this technicality had any merit.
Ronaldo7 said:
Cheers for the info. However, couldnt it be constituted as an "unfair term". For example, if HTC said the warranty was void if you took the phone outside, this would be ridiculous. Since smartphones are being marketed more as mobile computers, surely it is "unfair" not to be able to modify the operating system, much as you can do with a pc, without warranty for the hardware being voided?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As another poster said, this wouldn't be "unfair". A court would only ever begin to consider a term unfair if the consumer had no choice whatsoever. However, here you had the choice of not unlocking the bootloader and keeping your warranty, or returning the phone and buying another product.
Another argument that I could make for the consumer is that by including the exploit, it was "reasonably foreseeable" to HTC that people would unlock the bootloader... but HTC the argument is very weak in favor of the consumers and HTC would likely counter that the exploit is meant only for developers, not for everyday consumers.
BigDamHero said:
I don't know much about American law (I am a Trainee Solicitor, but in the UK) but I can tell you that this isn't going to come close to the legal definition of "unfair".
Warranties (at least over here) are entirely at the option of the manufacturer. If they want to have it fall away when you unlock the boot loader then it'll fall away when you unlock the bootloader. I've drafted one recently that does pretty much just that. They aren't required to provide one at all and what they put in it is thier choice. You are afforded most of your rights through sale of goods legislation and they are against the seller for things like goods not being of a satisfactory quality.
It may be that in US some minimum warranty is imposed by statute? With some set of minimum conditions? You'll need someone else to confirm that. However even if that is the case I'd bet any money that those minimum conditions basically equate to "you have to be able to use it as a PDA/Phone". At the end of the day you don't NEED to be able to unlock the boot loader to do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We have many similarities... American law is based on British common law, my friend. (As is the law in most other countries that were part of the empire. ) Under American law, brand new items are required to have some sort of warranty...either limited or full (as per the Magnusson-Moss Act). Used items are not required to have any warranty, unless they fall under particular categories, which I can't recall at the moment. Anyway, as in British law, we do have a minimum statutory warranty for new items... the "implied warranty of merchantability". All that requires is that the product would pass without any objections to others in the trade, as being fit for the purpose for which it was manufactured. So in this case, the item was fit for use as a phone. Same as British law.
QMAN101 said:
Seeing as the warranty is so specific as in using "the fastboot program" instead of "a fastboot program" does using "fastboot-windows or fastboot-mac" fall outside of that. Cases are routinely decided upon by mere technicalities as this. I deal with warranties all the time (as a manufacturer) and have had to eat replacement costs due to technicalities in the warranty verbiage.
Unfortunately, this does not carry over to the big disclaimer that you see when unlocking, but was wondering if this technicality had any merit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can assure you that in 99% of the cases, the courts won't throw out a case for such a small detail... especially in a civil case. They would probably construe it as being a blanket statement... i.e. "fastboot program" is an umbrella term that covers fastboot-windows, fastboot-mac, etc.
I have also studied contract law in school, my friend. By "legally separated," I mean they cannot warranty only the entire unit, there are many parts of this phone: SDcard, screen, software, etc. If one is broken, and has no releation to the others, then it is "separate."
uansari1 said:
Wrong. Not to sound like an ass, but I'm a 3rd year law student and have studied contracts, their making, and causes for breach, extensively. The warranty is not "legally broken into separate parts". Please don't make such inane statements....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sweetie, law student (you do sound a bit like an ass, btw), did you read the Magnuson-Moss Act before coming to your conclusion? Obviously you're going into defense, and not the enforcement side of the law.
Full text: http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/15C50.txt
To ask "where the ****" MM comes into play, is pretty silly, given it is about protecting consumers from deceptive warranty practices - it does more than just state full or limited warranties.
I wouldn't bring a copy of wikipedia to court, but it does break things down in an easier to understand language.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson–Moss_Warranty_Act
Here is the section I referred to:
The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A more detailed section might read like this:
(c) No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. (15 U.S.C.2302(C))
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd say that their exclusion of a "3rd party OS" runs right into this section of MM. The meaning is that GM can't force you to only use Mobil1 in your vehicle. You can use any oil you choose, so long as you use the correct viscosity & change it regularly - in fact, unless GM could prove the oil was the reason for failure (that's up to labs/lawyers), you could use canola oil & retain your warranty.
Thus, if you have a hardware problem, Google/HTC have to prove that the software/unlocking/etc. caused the damage to void your warranty. The argument would likely hinge on what is "unreasonable use," and if unlocking/rooting a piece of hardware you spent $500-600 on was reasonable. As for the bootloader issue being unambiguous, the same section also voids your warranty for normal wear-and-tear. I'd be far more concerned about a hardware issue, b/c connecting any unapproved accessory also voids your warranty.
All this being said, I am not a lawyer (an neither is Mr. Law Student), so if you're skerred, don't do it.
-bZj
Today's smartphones are as good as PCs. Does using root on computers void warranty? No!
Using root should/must not void warranty on Smartphones too.
Does rooting your device (e.g. an Android phone) and replacing its operating system with something else void your statutory warranty, if you are a consumer?
In short:
No.
Just the fact that you modified or changed the software of your device, is not a sufficient reason to void your statutory warranty. As long as you have bought the device as a consumer in the European Union.
A bit longer:
Directive 1999/44/CE dictates1 that any object meeting certain criteria (incl. telephones, computers, routers etc.) that is sold to a consumer2. inside the European Union, has to carry a warranty from the seller that the device will meet the quality that you would expect for such a device for a period of 2 years.
A telephone is an example of such a device and is an object that comprises many parts, from the case to the screen to the radio, to a mini-computer, to the battery, to the software that runs it. If any of these parts3 stop working in those 2 years, the seller has to fix or replace them. What is more these repairs should not cost the consumer a single cent — the seller has to cover the expenses (Directive 1999/44/CE, §3). If the seller has any expenses for returning it to the manufacturer, this is not your problem as a consumer.
If your device becomes defective in the first 6 months, it is presumed that the defect was there all along, so you should not need to prove anything.
If your device becomes defective after the first 6 months, but before 2 years run out, you are still covered. The difference is only that if the defect arises now, the seller can claim that the defect was caused by some action that was triggered by non-normal use of the device4. But in order to avoid needing to repair or replace your device, the seller has to prove that your action caused5 the defect. It is generally recognised by courts that unless there is a sign of abuse of the device, the defect is there because the device was faulty from the beginning. That is just common sense, after all.
So, we finally come to the question of rooting, flashing and changing the software. Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker.
Many manufacturers of consumer devices write into their warranties a paragraph that by changing the software or “rooting” your device, you void the warranty. You have to understand that in EU we have a “statutory warranty”, which is compulsory that the seller must offer by law (Directive 1999/44/CE, §7.1) and a “voluntary warranty” which the seller or manufacturer can, but does not need to, offer as an additional service to the consumer. Usually the “voluntary warranty” covers a longer period of time or additional accidents not covered by law6. If though the seller, the manufacturer or anyone else offers a “voluntary warranty”, he is bound to it as well!
So, even if, by any chance your “voluntary warranty” got voided, by European law, you should still have the 2 year “compulsory warranty” as it is described in the Directive and which is the topic of this article.
In case the seller refuses your right to repair or replace the device, you can sue him in a civil litigation and can report the incident to the national authority. In many European countries such action does not even require hiring a lawyer and is most of the time ensured by consumers associations.
The warranty under this Directive is only applicable inside the European Union and only if you bought the device as a consumer.
[1] EU member states must have by now imported the Directive 1999/44/CE into their national laws. So you should quote also your local law on that topic.
[2] A consumer is a natural person who acts for their own private purposes and not as a professional. .
[3] Batteries can be exempt of this and usually hold only 6 months warranty.
[4] E.g. a defect power button could be caused by spreading marmalade in it or hooking it onto a robot that would continuously press the button every second 24/7 — of course that is not normal or intended use.
[5] Note that correlation is not causation — the defect has to be proven to be caused by your action, not just correlate with it.
[6] E.g. if a device manufacturer guarantees the phone is water- and shock-proof or a car manufacturer offers 7 years of warranty against rust.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source : https://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html
Should've gone in the general section mate, good info though.
tuxonhtc said:
Should've gone in the general section mate, good info though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't decide. I thought that it was a trouble for us
Can mods move this thread to the General Section please?
Just noticed this post when i was updating a friends note 2 and rooting in the EU does not void your warranty. This is general knowledge and good to be in the EU
It voids warranty bcuz u can accidentally brick it and that would be ur fault not thiers.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
Good info but thread needs to be moved to general info request a mod to move this thread
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda premium
mezo91 said:
It voids warranty bcuz u can accidentally brick it and that would be ur fault not thiers.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How will rooting your phone brick it??
Unless the seller can prove that modifying the software, rooting your device or flashing it with some other OS or firmware was the cause for the defect, you are still covered for defects during those 2 years. A good test to see if it is the software’s fault is to flash it back with stock firmware/OS and see if the problem persists. If it does, it is not a software-caused problem. If it is not possible to revert it stock software any more, it is also not a software-caused defect. There are very few hardware defects that are caused by software — e.g. overriding the speaker volume above the safe level could blow the speaker
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's just say these are saftey measures of a company.
You bought the phone for the hardware and software made by Samsung. It's a form of giving credit.
Experimenting with the phone outside of Samsung circumstances is your own decision.
Simone said:
Let's just say these are saftey measures of a company.
You bought the phone for the hardware and software made by Samsung. It's a form of giving credit.
Experimenting with the phone outside of Samsung circumstances is your own decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely irrelevant. The law is the law, and the law allows you to root in the EU without affecting any warranty.
FloatingFatMan said:
Completely irrelevant. The law is the law, and the law allows you to root in the EU without affecting any warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see.
irishpancake said:
How will rooting your phone brick it??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only "problem" with rooting is that it potentially allows dumb users to do dumb things - such as overclocking beyond the acceptable level for your processor, or flashing a radio from a completely different device.
Regards,
Dave
This is actually an awesome thing to know. Thanks, OP.
I never rooted or flashed my note 2 because I was afraid to lose my warranty and have to pay the repair or buy another phone if something unlucky happened. This one isn't cheap. But I always had the feeling that I was not taking real advantage of my note 2 and now I think I will. Again, thanks.
You shouldn't be too sure that your warranty wouldn't be void , i know many places where you won't get any warranty due to being rooted, don't take this to granted as its "not a law" its also carrier/reseller that makes these decissions. they probably know what your doing if your rooting (basically i know that they know that i know) but lets say i bought a phone and they told me that i wasn't able to "upgrade" to a newer firmware due to the warranty being void. again i wouldn't take this as granted that i would get my warranty. as of its not anything i can say its the law. its not only the law. its samsung/resellers decision not government law.
Regards
It comes down to whether the repair centre can prove that rooting is the cause of the problem. I.e if a fried cpu is the issue, and they find that the cpu is overclocked.
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
LastStandingDroid said:
You shouldn't be too sure that your warranty wouldn't be void , i know many places where you won't get any warranty due to being rooted, don't take this to granted as its "not a law" its also carrier/reseller that makes these decissions. they probably know what your doing if your rooting (basically i know that they know that i know) but lets say i bought a phone and they told me that i wasn't able to "upgrade" to a newer firmware due to the warranty being void. again i wouldn't take this as granted that i would get my warranty. as of its not anything i can say its the law. its not only the law. its samsung/resellers decision not government law.
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. It IS the law, in Europe. Outside of there you're likely screwed, but in Europe, consumers are protected. If they try to deny your rights, you can sue them into oblivion and are guaranteed a win, with all costs covered.
FloatingFatMan said:
Wrong. It IS the law, in Europe. Outside of there you're likely screwed, but in Europe, consumers are protected. If they try to deny your rights, you can sue them into oblivion and are guaranteed a win, with all costs covered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me take my brothers Xcover to the reseller (it's constantly freezing and has been done so) even before rooted but I won't say it's rooted I let them in service center look at it and if they say it's not going on warranty I'm glad to get some money lol.
But it's not a law. Not every country may follow it. I know Sweeden is one of those who Suck at this.
But it gives me an idea
Sent from my official GT-I9505 powered with qualcom
LastStandingDroid said:
Let me take my brothers Xcover to the reseller (it's constantly freezing and has been done so) even before rooted but I won't say it's rooted I let them in service center look at it and if they say it's not going on warranty I'm glad to get some money lol.
But it's not a law. Not every country may follow it. I know Sweeden is one of those who Suck at this.
But it gives me an idea
Sent from my official GT-I9505 powered with qualcom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your not thinking it's the law has no bearing at all on the law in the EU. If you're outside the EU. well, that's different.
LastStandingDroid said:
Let me take my brothers Xcover to the reseller (it's constantly freezing and has been done so) even before rooted but I won't say it's rooted I let them in service center look at it and if they say it's not going on warranty I'm glad to get some money lol.
But it's not a law. Not every country may follow it. I know Sweeden is one of those who Suck at this.
But it gives me an idea
Sent from my official GT-I9505 powered with qualcom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sweden is in the EU, and as such they are required to follow EU law. I'm from Norway, which is not in the EU, and we still follow the same warranty regulations (they are actually even more lenient)
Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2
Unfortunately I'm not in the EU.
In the past I went to the consumer court several times and I always won.
Even once I sued shoe company Nike and I got my money back even though I wore them for 2 months.
You must not forget!
Company's policy is not a law! They can't indicate anything to you that is not in the law. They cannot force you to obey their policies.
Company and you must obey the laws.
You have to be ready to fight against them on the customer court
You have to be well prepared. You must know the customer law.
And for the last, you have to be right. Do not waste your time for trying to get warranty for your liquid damaged device or broken screen
FloatingFatMan said:
Your not thinking it's the law has no bearing at all on the law in the EU. If you're outside the EU. well, that's different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
last time i checked sweden was in EU but i can see if i can get my phone which has warranty to see if they will fix it,
its rooted but the root isn't caused by rooting it (Manufucator fault) has been since we got it, but i've never heard anyone getting their phone fixed if they have root. idk i can try.
Hello guys
In many threads, I saw that unlocking the bootloader won't void the warranty but in the live chat they have a different opinion. Take a look at my conversation and what they told me (I'm Anastasios and motorola is the other guy)
Code:
Santhosh: Hi, my name is Santhosh. How may I help you?
Anastasios: Hello, I want to know about voiding the warranty. Does the warranty breaks if you unlock the bootloader?
Santhosh: I will do my best to help you with this. Before we move any further, would you please help me confirm your email, location and phone we are dealing with?
Anastasios: My email is tasos****@gmail.com, Location Greece and the phone is moto e 2nd gen 4g xt1524
Santhosh: Thanks for the information.
Santhosh: Yes unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty of the mobile.
Anastasios: But take a look here. http://fsfe.org/freesoftware/legal/flashingdevices.en.html
Anastasios: it says that unlocking the bootloader isn't a sufficient reason to breaks the warranty in the europe
Santhosh: Please go through the agreement details when you start the bootloader unlocking it clearly states the warranty void.
Anastasios: so, you say that the stuff the europe counsil decides are not of your bussiness. Here the official article about the rights of the consumer http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:31999L0044&from=EN
Santhosh: Please go through the warranty policy information on this page.
Santhosh: https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bootloader/unlock-your-device-a
Anastasios: Yeah, but you still did not gave me the wanted anwser. The Europe Laws say different things that you claim. So what shoud I do? Should I listen to the europe or to you (motorola)?
Santhosh: Only when you accept these conditions and go to the next page you can unlock the bootloader. Unlocking the bootloader voids the warranty of the mobile.
Santhosh: You can go through the legal terms here. https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/741421/1385047216/redirect/1/filename/Boot_revised.pdf
Anastasios: In every single site that it is for the unlocking part, claim that unlocking the bootloader won't void the warranty if you live in Europe. Is that wrong?
Santhosh: We request you check our official website conditions to unlock the bootloader.
Anastasios: ok then thanks.You won a thread in the XDA forum about how bad are you in terms of warranty and legal stuff. BYE
You have disconnected.
lol now tell me which company allow their users to unlock their bootloader without voiding the warianty?
first example, Sony:
Voiding the warranty
If you unlock the boot loader, you may void the warranty of your device and/or any warranty from your operator. See your device’s warranty statement for details. Additionally, due to the modified device software, Sony’s repair network will likely have to replace key components before it can properly test, repair and verify your device using our repair tools and software. Consequently, if Sony performs a warranty repair, Sony will likely charge you a significant service fee for the additional costs caused by your modification of the software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iks8 said:
lol now tell me which company allow their users to unlock their bootloader without voiding the warianty?
first example, Sony:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wont disagree but in the unlock threads it says that in Europe the warranty cant be broken that easy
correct.
The companys can write their own warranty rules of course.
But relevant is only what is given here by european and local country law if they sell stuff here.
So, the law overrules their own warranty if there are any differences, esp. in area of the private consumer.
In B2B contracts in contrast, the contract part like warranty can overwrite the llaw, as I once understood.
EB20XY said:
correct.
The companys can write their own warranty rules of course.
But relevant is only what is given here by european and local country law if they sell stuff here.
So, the law overrules their own warranty if there are any differences, esp. in area of the private consumer.
In B2B contracts in contrast, the contract part like warranty can overwrite the llaw, as I once understood.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So If I unlock my moto I will have the warranty?
t-shock said:
So If I unlock my moto I will have the warranty?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on where you live. I had s4 with knox tripped. But phone completely died. Couldn't access anything except qcom usb. I'm 100% sure they still could look if it was tripped but I doubt the could say its your fault because you did something wrong.
Same was with my G3 just died but I don't know if I was rooted then.
Though blame people for unlocking bootloader to upgrade Motorola E 2nd Gen should not affect it (theoretically) since you flash their system which only hasn't reach your country. Well I'll see what they say about it. If it wasn't for the waterproof I Would risk it to fix the sim reader myself.
Now I won't so hope warranty will be cover this. Ill stay tuned. and yes I have my bootloader unlocked. And warranty should cover this up for two years.
Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
I bought warranty when I bought my moto x pure but I unlocked the bootloader and rooted it, if I flash the factory images form the Motorola website and relocked it would I get my warranty back?
No... did you not read the T&C that were shown to you several times before you unlocked you device?
Once you submit your code to have Moto generate the unlock code and they successfully generate the email to you, your warranty is gone, doesn't even matter if you every use the code and never unlock it at all, your warranty is void.
You have only yourself to blame. Unless you have a Developer Edition device, once you get the unlock code, your device is no longer covered by the Motorola warranty; in other words, please don't blame us if things go wrong, even if they appear unrelated to unlocking the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and
THE FOLLOWING APPLIES TO ALL UNLOCKED DEVICES EXCEPT FOR DEVELOPER EDITION DEVICES. BY OBTAINING THE UNLOCK CODE FOR THIS DEVICE, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE DEVICE'S BOOTLOADER IS SUBSEQUENTLY UNLOCKED OR ITS SOFTWARE OR OPERATING SYSTEM IS MODIFIED, USER AGREES TO WAIVE AND VOID ALL WARRANTIES THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PROVIDED BY MOTOROLA, BOTH EXPRESS AND IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY WRITTEN WARRANTY THAT ACCOMPANIED THE DEVICE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE OR DELIVERY, AND AGREES THAT ANY RIGHTS OR REMEDIES PROVIDED BY SUCH A WARRANTY ARE NULL AND VOID. MOTOROLA MAKES NO WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND AND DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OF EVERY KIND, EXPRESS, IMPLIED, OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE IN CONNECTION WITH AN UNLOCKED DEVICE. USER ACKNOWLEDGES AND AGREES THAT ALL SUCH WARRANTIES ARE HEREBY EXCLUDED AND THAT ALL UNLOCKED DEVICES ARE PROVIDED "AS IS," WITH NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was very clearly spelled out during the process to get the unlock code. To sum it up: get the unlock code for your device and you no longer have a warranty. The moment that code was given to you, your phone is no longer covered. Doesn't matter if you use the code or not, relock, or anything else. To get the unlock code from Motorola, you had to accept the terms of doing so. Doesn't matter if you read them or not or even if you failed to understand them.
uriearos said:
I bought warranty when I bought my moto x pure but I unlocked the bootloader and rooted it, if I flash the factory images form the Motorola website and relocked it would I get my warranty back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who did you buy the warranty from? If it was BB or somewhere like that just reflash the boot screen. They won't check the status before exchanging it.
ahhfishstix said:
Who did you buy the warranty from? If it was BB or somewhere like that just reflash the boot screen. They won't check the status before exchanging it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although this might work, you do realize it is wrong and possibly illegal?
Sent from my Motorola XT1575 using XDA Labs
Manufacturer warranty, yes. But I'm not talking about a moto warranty. Bb won't touch a rooted phone, but if you return to stock they will replace under a GSP plan.
ahhfishstix said:
Manufacturer warranty, yes. But I'm not talking about a moto warranty. Bb won't touch a rooted phone, but if you return to stock they will replace under a GSP plan.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True enough! I got you now.
Sent from my Motorola XT1575 using XDA Labs
I had recently rooted my moto g5 plus and due to battery issues had to relock the bootloader before taking it to the service center.
After examining the device, the service center asked me if it was rooted earlier to which I replied Yes and then they told me that the device has void its warranty since the device was rooted.
Now that I had relocked the bootloader, can I not claim the device warranty now?
Please show me a direction here.
22sumit said:
I had recently rooted my moto g5 plus and due to battery issues had to relock the bootloader before taking it to the service center.
After examining the device, the service center asked me if it was rooted earlier to which I replied Yes and then they told me that the device has void its warranty since the device was rooted.
Now that I had relocked the bootloader, can I not claim the device warranty now?
Please show me a direction here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you can get your warranty back. Some say that once you issue an unlock code, your warranty gets void even if you use the code to unlock bootloader or not. I do hope that you get your warranty back and get your phone fixed. Anyways, you could've just told them that it wasn't rooted
psychopac said:
I don't think you can get your warranty back. Some say that once you issue an unlock code, your warranty gets void even if you use the code to unlock bootloader or not. I do hope that you get your warranty back and get your phone fixed. Anyways, you could've just told them that it wasn't rooted
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My bad, I couldn't lie it to them coz they had evidence that the bootloader was unlocked earlier.
22sumit said:
My bad, I couldn't lie it to them coz they had evidence that the bootloader was unlocked earlier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was it locked when you gave the phone to them?
I remember I had a Moto E2 which was running a custom ROM and the phone was in warranty and when it's speaker started going bonkers, I just flashed the fastboot ROM and locked the bootloader (I think so) and took it to service center and they fixed it for free. Actually, the speaker grill had accumulated some dust and that was interfering with the sound output so they opened the phone and cleaned the speaker.
psychopac said:
Was it locked when you gave the phone to them?
I remember I had a Moto E2 which was running a custom ROM and the phone was in warranty and when it's speaker started going bonkers, I just flashed the fastboot ROM and locked the bootloader (I think so) and took it to service center and they fixed it for free. Actually, the speaker grill had accumulated some dust and that was interfering with the sound output so they opened the phone and cleaned the speaker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes relocked it last night and flashed the stock fastboot images as well.
First they did the same in the holy name of software update and then finally giving up to the final conclusion that the battery needed replacement. I left the mobile with them until they told me on call that they'll be charging Rs 1500 for the replacement since the device was rooted. Sometimes even I think that had I lied to them, they might had considered replacing it at no extra cost.
22sumit said:
Yes relocked it last night and flashed the stock fastboot images as well.
First they did the same in the holy name of software update and then finally giving up to the final conclusion that the battery needed replacement. I left the mobile with them until they told me on call that they'll be charging Rs 1500 for the replacement since the device was rooted. Sometimes even I think that had I lied to them, they might had considered replacing it at no extra cost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder what would changing the battery has to do with a fault on the screen?
psychopac said:
I wonder what would changing the battery has to do with a fault on the screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's actually a battery issue
I don't think you understand... you VOLUNTARILY gave up your warranty when the unlock code was issued, regardless of whether you actually unlocked the bootloader or not. You cannot "get your warranty back" in any way. Did you not read ANY of the multiple warnings when you unlocked your phone, it is presented very clearly at least 3 times before you actually commit to getting the code.
It depends on the country you live in. A company can't get you to accept something like that and make you give up a right given to you by law. Check your local consumer laws, you might still be able to get it fixed under warranty.
I know that in the EU, Australia, New Zealand etc a company cannot waive the rights of a user under the local consumer laws by just getting you to accept some stupid disclaimer.
syl0n said:
It depends on the country you live in. A company can't get you to accept something like that and make you give up a right given to you by law. Check your local consumer laws, you might still be able to get it fixed under warranty.
I know that in the EU, Australia, New Zealand etc a company cannot waive the rights of a user under the local consumer laws by just getting you to accept some stupid disclaimer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most EU countries that is partially true, depending on your country, I will elaborate in a second... I was unaware there were similar laws in Australia or New Zealand...
The situation is quite complicated, at least in Germany, but most likely this applies to most EU countries. There are two different types of warranty. First, the manufacturer warranty / express warranty (Garantie), which is entirely voluntary and the manufacturer dictates its terms. Second, there is the implied warranty (Gewährleistung), which is regulated by law and exercised by the seller.
Under express warranty, manufacturers can decline any repairs easily because of unlocking, and they do that of course. However, under implied warranty, that isn't easily possible. In Germany, in the first 6 months after you buy the device, the seller has to prove that a fault is your own doing. Which is really hard, so you should be good to go even with unlocked bootloader. After the first 6 months, it is the opposite, you have to prove that a defect wasn't caused by you, which is again, really hard.
So in the first 6 months after you've bought the phone you should be fine, but after that, it will be problematic to say the least. Again, this is true for Germany, it might be a bit different in other EU countries.
There are any number of discussions on this topic on Reddit, Lenovo's Official Forums, here and other forums, and although some people seem to get around the Motorola/Lenovo statements, the vast majority don't, even in countries with laws to subjugate this practice. A little Googling will confirm that. Whatever Moto, and other manufacturers with similar policies are doing, in general they are not honoring warranties after bootloader unlocking.
The reality is a lot worse than the pretty picture the politicians give us about the laws that supposedly protect consumers.
22sumit said:
I had recently rooted my moto g5 plus and due to battery issues had to relock the bootloader before taking it to the service center.
After examining the device, the service center asked me if it was rooted earlier to which I replied Yes and then they told me that the device has void its warranty since the device was rooted.
Now that I had relocked the bootloader, can I not claim the device warranty now?
Please show me a direction here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once you unlock the bootloader, your warranty is void. It doesn't matter if you relock it. Because you have to request an unlock code from Motorola, that big long agreement you have to accept when you request the code basically tells you that you're voiding your warranty the moment you click "accept", whether you actually use the code and unlock the bootloader or not. Just asking for the code is all it takes.
That's something you need to come to terms with if you're going to use custom ROMs, or root your device. I always wait a month or two to make sure my phone doesn't have any defects before I mess with ROMs, and I research devices before buying them to see what kind of issues they may be prone to in the first 12 months.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, bud.
Sent from my XT1687 using XDA Labs
from the unlock code page https://motorola-global-portal.custhelp.com/app/standalone/bootloader/unlock-your-device-b :
As used in this Legal Agreement and Warning, the term "Unlocked Device" means a Device for which an Unlock Code has been obtained, regardless of whether such Device's bootloader has actually been unlocked, relocked or whether such Device's software or operating system has been modified or whether it's original, unmodified software or operating system has been reloaded. In other words, once a Device's Unlock Code has been released by Motorola to User, the Device shall thereafter, for all intents and purposes, be deemed to be an Unlocked Device, irrespective of whether it was, in fact, unlocked or modified.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(5) THE FOLLOWING APPLIES TO ALL UNLOCKED DEVICES EXCEPT FOR DEVELOPER EDITION DEVICES. BY OBTAINING THE UNLOCK CODE FOR THIS DEVICE, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE DEVICE'S BOOTLOADER IS SUBSEQUENTLY UNLOCKED OR ITS SOFTWARE OR OPERATING SYSTEM IS MODIFIED, USER AGREES TO WAIVE AND VOID ALL WARRANTIES THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PROVIDED BY MOTOROLA, BOTH EXPRESS AND IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY WRITTEN WARRANTY THAT ACCOMPANIED THE DEVICE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE OR DELIVERY, AND AGREES THAT ANY RIGHTS OR REMEDIES PROVIDED BY SUCH A WARRANTY ARE NULL AND VOID. MOTOROLA MAKES NO WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND AND DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OF EVERY KIND, EXPRESS, IMPLIED, OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE IN CONNECTION WITH AN UNLOCKED DEVICE. USER ACKNOWLEDGES AND AGREES THAT ALL SUCH WARRANTIES ARE HEREBY EXCLUDED AND THAT ALL UNLOCKED DEVICES ARE PROVIDED "AS IS," WITH NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just got a used/refurb G5 Plus in the mail yesterday - it still has warranty thru 06/2018. ($145 from B&H, for the 4GB/64GB version!)
All right, time to "ROM it up!". Read unlock/root directions. get oem unlock data from fastboot, go to the motorola unlock code page:
I sat there, on the unlock code page for about 6 minutes, reading and re-reading that. I've decided not to unlock for now. It's not often that I have a phone under warranty (I've almost always had used phones, etc), so i think i will try to see how well I can get along with stock ROM for a change.
Thankfully, I see very little variance away from AOSP.
This will be a major challenge, for me, to see how long I can stay stock and unrooted. Hopefully, I can make it to the 8.0 OTA.
But, the point is - I read the stuff and took time to think and make an informed decision.
well... in my city, those service center guys are dumb, I mean really dumb;
I had some problem with my bootloader unlocked device, they just checked the bill and repaired the phone for free lol
siddhesh9146 said:
well... in my city, those service center guys are dumb, I mean really dumb;
I had some problem with my bootloader unlocked device, they just checked the bill and repaired the phone for free lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
North America and Europe don't have "service centers"... We have to send them into corporate repair center to get fixed, there is no walk-in service, which requires an RMA be issued and we get stopped right there.
Honestly, your service center isn't helping... When they do repairs on a device like this, they later submit the repair to Moto/Lenovo for reimbursement and they don't get paid because the IMEI is flagged. Sure, you got your device fixed, but your neighbors paid for it, not Moto.
acejavelin said:
North America and Europe don't have "service centers"... We have to send them into corporate repair center to get fixed, there is no walk-in service, which requires an RMA be issued and we get stopped right there.
Honestly, your service center isn't helping... When they do repairs on a device like this, they later submit the repair to Moto/Lenovo for reimbursement and they don't get paid because the IMEI is flagged. Sure, you got your device fixed, but your neighbors paid for it, not Moto.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wdym by neighbors? you mean those guys in service center took the loss by this ^above???