Related
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/patterson/57664
Watch out, iPhone—Android's nipping at your heels.
Researchers at Gartner (via AppleInsider) are predicting that the global market share for Google's Android mobile OS could overtake the iPhone's in a little over two years, with Android poised to leapfrog Apple into the No. 2 spot.
That would leave the iPhone in the No. 3 position—right where it is now, behind BlackBerry and Nokia's Symbian OS, according to Gartner. The industry researchers believe that by 2012, Research in Motion (the company behind the BlackBerry) will have lost 7 percent of its market share, causing it to slip into fifth place (behind even Windows Mobile). Android, meanwhile, will get a 12.9-percent boost to become the No. 2 smartphone platform in the world, with Symbian still safe in the No. 1 spot (with a dominating, although dwindling, 39 percent of the global market).
Those are just analyst predictions, of course, and two years is an eternity in the wireless world; after all, two years ago today, we were still getting used to the first iPhone.
That said, I think the gist of Gartner's prediction—that Android is poised to take the wireless market by storm—is spot on, and we've seen evidence of that in the past few months and weeks.
Google's open-source Android platform—which boasts one of the finest touchscreen interfaces out there, iPhone included—came slow out of the gates in fall 2008 with the solid, if uninspiring T-Mobile G1. We had to wait almost a year for the next Android phone in the U.S., but we finally got one this past August with the G1's follow-up, the HTC-made myTouch 3G (also on T-Mobile).
Soon after, what started as a trickle quickly became a flood. Sprint trotted out its first Android phone, the eye-catching, touchscreen HTC Hero, and then T-Mobile followed suit with the Motorola Cliq, its third Android handset ... followed by the Samsung Behold II just a few days ago. On Tuesday, Verizon Wireless announced it would launch a pair of Android phones before the end of the year, while Sprint announced its second Android phone—the Samsung Moment—a day later. Oh, and now there's rumors that Dell wants in on the Android action, with a new handset possible slated for iPhone carrier AT&T.
Let's see, that's ... one, two, three, four ... five new Android phones in in the past few months, with two more—and possibly even a third—due by the end of the year, from two (or maybe three) different manufacturers and three (possibly four) carriers. Some will be better than others, but consumers will have plenty of models (and carriers) from which to choose.
Of course, a bunch of new phones on the market doesn't mean diddly unless someone buys them, and for now, Apple has a solid 10.8- versus 1.6-percent lead over Android in terms of global smartphone market share. But Apple is the only company making iPhones, while the open-source (and high-quality) Android platform is available to all manufacturers and carriers—and from what we've been seeing, they're taking the ball and running with it.
I phone killa!
never touched an iphone and probly never will.
phatmanxxl said:
never touched an iphone and probly never will.
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Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!
unless android devices leap away from qualcomm chipset, i'm not sure about the end user satisfaction
i've tried quite a few qualcomm based devices, some non-smartphones as well, and i have to say they all suck compared to non-qualcomm based devices, sucky multimedia, sucky network performance!
try htc diamond & i-mate 8150 side by side, you'll will know what i'm talking about
X-i-phoner said:
Cant bash it tell you try it. There really not bad if you have little ambition to MOD. They update all the time which is nice for an average joe user but that sucks if you MOD them because apple is always closing the holes that are hacked. I still have my 2g 16gb Itouch and its freaking SWEET!
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I got nothing against iphones really. im sure if I got to use one for a day I'd probly like it. But being on T-mobile for over over 5 years I tend to only pay attention to T-mo and At&t phones.
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.
phatmanxxl said:
I'm sure once android spreads among the other carriers it will be huge. I can easily see android being in the top 3 with RIM and symbian.
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Agreed, I can also see android doing the same stuff apple is now too.
Back in the early days of the PC when it was Apple vs IBM, IBM won because they licensed their architecture to various manufactures which were then able to make 100% Compatible IBM clones. Apple on the other hand insisted that it keep manufacturing in house, and look what happened.
~20 years later we may see history repeat itself.
You can't assume that apple is going for world domination. Their past successes have been based entirely off the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, which they are likely to hold on to no matter what anyone else does.
The reason for their *temporary* position in the smartphone business is simple; they happened to be in the right place at the right time... and very lucky. A few years ago, palm was in a position to dominate the smartphone market, but they dragged their feet and allowed ugly-as-the-1970's RIM to capture the business user market. Palm *used to* have the business market, and even had a (at the time) very slick and colorful UI with touch screen and more features than you could shake a stick at, and at a time when RIM had clunky black-and-white displays, no graphics to speak of, and that stupid roller wheel. So at a time when a smartphone only really made sense to a business user, palm had devices that were actually quite attractive to just about everybody, but they stagnated rather than taking advantage of what they had, which left them in a very weak state when apple showed up to take the *entire* non-business smartphone market -- right at the time when it started making sense for *everybody* to have a smartphone.
So right before 'droid showed up, the smartphone market was severely skewed... on one hand, you had RIM with all the business market, on the other hand, you had apple with all the pleasure market. Android though, has the potential to be everything for everybody, and by everybody I mean google and the OHA, phone manufacturers, carriers, and even users.
If their computer business is any indication, apple isn't about to drop their prices to anything sensible -- they're still sitting at about FOUR TIMES what it would cost for generic hardware. For whatever reason, this appeals to the hippie/artsie/faggie crowd, that, along with the shinyness... MEANING: there are going to be TONS of manufacturers wielding android, COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER regarding prices. Which is a great thing. It means that we can look forward to very inexpensive 'droid devices while the likes of apple price themselves out of the market. Even now, the current i-phony is about $200 CDN more than Dream or Magic -- and don't give any crap that its "better" -- it does, after all, run their crap software.
Somebody said symbian? The fact that the world's cheapest mobile phone manufacturer wants to call their crap proprietary firmware by some name doesn't make it a dominating factor in anyone's opinion. Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of), every provider gives them away for FREE to anybody who signs up for a contract.... since many people already HAVE a phone that they want to use and the carrier forces them into the contract anyways, they get a free phone that may never even get removed from the box. In fact, I have a BOX full of them myself, more of them than any other phone, and yet not a single one of them has so much as been turned on. And yet it counts as a sale in favor of "symbian". So by my math, about half the mobile phones delivered are the "free" ones that come with the contract.
lbcoder said:
Its a simple matter... nokia phones are dirt cheap -- without exception (that I am aware of),.
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http://www.nokiausa.com/buy-online?CMP=KNC-SEM_001&site=Google&device=BuyOnline
The n97 and n900 are sweet phones. Nokias market is dominating in china and japan. Many other places dont get to see all the cool stuff Noika puts out because Nokia doesnt need to advertise it anywhere else. My little bro got the N95 developer edition the day it came out, He still has it and it is still really advanced compared to most phones.
I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
phatmanxxl said:
I doubt Android is gonna be used in the business market..the email client is wack, its gonna serious overhaul to compete. I went through a blackberry phase, its great as far a communication goes and by far the best damn keyboards ever. I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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Two things about your prediction...
1. Companies can have more input as to what goes into their business phones.
Imagine my company XYZ starts a contract for the carrier to provide a specific hardware/cellular platform. I can then take that hardware platform and load my customized Android platform onto it. What company wouldn't want that level of control over their business assets? You certainly can't get that with RIM.
2. The carriers, more than anyone, decide what functions a particular phone is marketed towards. From a financial and support perspective, what carrier wouldn't want to have a single OS for all device types and just load in specific apps to cater to specific functions? (Warning: Pie in the sky opinion follows.) Need a business phone? Here is our business suite on our business hardware. Want a gamer device? Here is our game hardware with our game suite. Support would be simplified because under the hood it all works very similarly.
And my prediction...
You will see business class Android devices much sooner than you think. Just because they have not been announced yet does not mean that they are not already in the works. It is a smart move for Google to market towards the prosumers first and businesses later. Let the prosumers work out the kinks and storm the business market later with your well tested and hardened OS. Basically, we (the devs here mainly) are doing most of the work for them... (Queue Adam Sandler) FOR FREEEEEEEE!
The only thing the iPhone has against the G1 is the fact that its thinner, but now we have the MyTouch which runs Android and is also thin...Suck it Apple!
phatmanxxl said:
...and by far the best damn keyboards ever.
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You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
I see Android as more of a entertainment and social phone and I'm sure that's the market they're going for especially with the cliq. Ahem, move over sidekick and iphone.
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That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.
lbcoder said:
You actually *like* RIM keyboards? I have to use a couple of RIM devices for work (as a software developer -- they stay on my desk full time)... a 9000 (buttons) and a 9530 (retarded clicky-touchscreen). The keyboards on them both are absolute CRAP. EVERY button besides letters (that includes punctuation) require some extra button to be pressed, and that extra button is so close to the edge of the thing that you can hardly get to it. And their touchscreen keyboard? You have to touchscreen it once to highlight the "key", remove your finger to make sure that its selected, and go back to CLICK the screen -- usually need to click it 2 or 3 times before it actually "takes"... and no it isn't a hardware defect since the SIMULATOR does the exact same thing!
That may be YOUR USE/OBJECTIVE, and/or the use/objective of certain vendors *at the moment*, but android is an *operating system* and not just the crap software you have installed on it, nor is it restricted to the hardware you have it installed on.... for example, you can install X operating system on something you have plugged into the TV set in your living room and use it for games and videos, you can install the same X operating system on the computer you have on your desk at work, or, you can install the same X operating system on a server handling secure financial transactions within a major international bank's data center.... Android is great because it has the flexibility of being a general purpose operating system rather than a "feature" operating system as is the case for RIM (centered around their email client), or i-phony (centered around their music player).
Now with a general purpose operating system, you also have the flexibility of serving multiple needs. Take the guy who would need something that has the function of a RIM for work. Why would he want to have a second device for playing sudoku and listening to music on the subway ride home? And a third device for navigating on a road trip he and his family decide to take when they go on vacation? I see so many people holding BOTH a RIM and an i-phony and flipping between them because neither will do what the other does as well as it does it. Except now android can and *does* do what BOTH of them do *as well* as they BOTH do it.... and then some.
You need security/VPN? Work email/push IMAP? We've got that! You want music? Games? Navigation? A good web browsing experience?
What does RIM have on Android right now? Answer: nothing at all.
What does apple have on Android right now? Answer: nothing technical, there might be one or two applications you like that haven't been written for 'droid yet, but that's it.
Can 'droid handle the 'business use' case *right now*? Yes.
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lol u tell him
but IMO blackberry devices are very visually appealing. i think the sprint hero, samsung moment, moto cliq, LGs first android, samsung glaxy and lite version all look ugly.
and i like some of the apps apple have. i just want to see a completed multiplayer fps on android.
WM is following iPhone and Android is creating a new market. iPhone is too heavy with the iTune and paid apps as well.
Love my Android G2. Open platform is what we need
I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?
The reasoning is simple... pride. And money.
Android isn't just something that is *there to use*. Many of us have a lot of time invested in the platform and it not only feels good for it to be successful, it is also financially rewarding. i-phony is right now the most recognizable mobile phone, so it is naturally the target to BEAT.
chefgon said:
I really wish that people would learn how to discuss Android on its own merits instead of CONSTANTLY comparing it to iPhone.
So you think Android is going to do well, that's fantastic, why not talk about that instead of saying that it's going to be better than iPhone?
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I'm talking about the pearl, curve and curve 2. well, I really like those keyboards, just my opinion. I never had any problems using them. Microsoft/Danger abandoned project pink (supposed to be the new danger os) sidekicks are rumored to be phased out anyway. Also with the major data outage, they have no access to their contacts, t-mail and calender for almost a month now, a lot of those customers I'm sure will move to Android.
and until corporate and business owners start handing out Google phones instead of blackberrys, RIM does have one up over Android
http://www.xda-developers.com/android/motorola-announces-modular-smartphone-project-ara/
[Holy ****] Motorola Announces Project Ara, An Open, Modular Smartphone Hardware Platform
http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/1...an-open-modular-smartphone-hardware-platform/
Motorola is inviting people across the globe to become Ara Scouts. Over the next 6 - 12 months, we'll be doing research to shape the direction of Project Ara. You can help by collaborating with us on special missions.
http://www.dscout.com/ara
After the trip, we asked ourselves, how do we bring the benefits of an open hardware ecosystem to 6 billion people? Meet Ara. - See more at:
http://motorola-blog.blogspot.ca/2013/10/goodbye-sticky-hello-ara.html
My post at http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/1...ip-and-offers-another-glimpse-of-project-ara/
I'm excited too, though still cautious/skeptical.
I'm sure MANY people have thought about such a concept Lego-type phone/everything device over the decades. My first serious but skeptical thoughts were in 2001, noting that it seemed wasteful to buy a digital video/still camera (at 2001 prices) over and over again for many different devices. But 12 years have made me even more skeptical about the practical realities.
This holds promise, but without specific guarantees; I look forward to seeing what happens.
Many/most engineers started with Lego or Mechano (my fave) when young and want to see similar in the real, practical world.
Linux is the Lego of Operating Systems.
Android AOSP is the Lego of Mobile Operating Systems.
Google, then MIT App Inventor is at least one of the Lego's of Android app development.
Arduino shields and similar are Lego for micro-controller hardware.
I look forward to Lego like pieces for phones, tablets, "laptops" and other devices.
I guess I'll sign up for the special missions of an "Ara Scout" and hope to not be disappointed: http://www.dscout.com/ara#
EDIT: Uh, oh, looks like DScout is some weird 3rd party thing that makes this all look like a lame-ish marketing ploy at this time...
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Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that the DScout is a third-party app, but at the same time, I think it is a neat idea. More importantly, this is something I want them to market to me. I don't mind providing companies with personal information or feedback about my tastes if I get what I want in return. It's when they take it without asking that bugs me. Especially when they don't seem to actually do anything in response. At the end of the day, I think it's a good thing if they're making products I want to buy and generally conducting their business in the way I want them to conduct it. If anything, I think the more glaring problem right now is companies NOT listening to people and instead adopting that stupid Apple notion that "people don't know what they want; we have to tell them what they want." If only google actually were listening in on us--then they'd at least know how strongly opposed we are to carriers locking down devices.
I'm hoping it really happens. And if it is true that Moto has been working on this for a year already then I think its at least somewhat encouraging.
My OP was moved here from the Hardware Hacking forum.
This new section is named "MDK Hacking".
MDK = Module Developer's Kit which will allow 3rd party module development. It's supposed to be released sometime "this winter".
I'm personally interested in getting an FM receiver, AND transmitter module created. While were at it, maybe w/ a chip for HD/Dab+/DMB radio. Might as well keep wishing and go for digital broadcast TV and effectively anything with a Software Defined Radio, LOL.
As for Project Ara in general, a few days of sober second thought, and the reading and thought processing of the several hundred posts I read, have put me more back in the skeptical range.
But I'd be happy even if this went no further than a reasonably successful hobbyist oriented eco-system, like Arduino.
Jane and Joe average "6 pack" could not care less how their phone or tablet were built. But the people who run custom ROMs, and they number in the many millions now, may find this compelling.
I'm imaging a robot, with an Android tablet as a head (with face(s) LOL.) Hooked to the head/brain are redundant communications paths to the rest of the body. The rest of the body may have their own small USB flash drive or less sized Android devices for specialty tasks.
Heck, with the right parts, the robot could disassemble and re-assemble itself, as needed. We've seen Futurama's Bender do so many times, ROFL.
And there are thousands of other cool and interesting non-robot uses for all this stuff. Someday soon, if not already, a sizable percentage of science fair projects will contain a connected Android device.
There may even be many useful business use cases, to add to all the fun stuff.
I could definitely see it happening, mainly because I think the project is keeping its aspirations in check. From what I've heard, at least, Ara is not looking to take the idea quite as far as Phonebloks was suggesting. I think that, rather than a Lego phone--where you can make anything you want--they are looking to bring phone hardware more inline with the hardware on computers (excluding those made by Apple, of course). You can already customize pretty much every aspect of your average PC. And the parts are more or less universally compatible: you can put basically any brand of hard drive in basically any computer. But even though it's not quite a Lego-phone, it would still be pretty amazing. Even if the only thing they did was allow you to choose what kind of camera you want on your phone, that would still be a significant improvement over the way things are now. Right now, you can sort of pick the color on some phones. and even that you can only do once, at the time of purchase. (I guess you also get the choice of buying a phone with more storage, but that's only because those phones don't come with external SD card slots. I refuse to count that as an example of customizability.)
Yeah.
PhoneBloks so far is 2 guys "on a mission", not too unlike a 2 guy FSF. The first part of that mission includes gathering enough money for a discussion forum and even that is not complete yet.
Project Ara seems like a "skunkworks" project of a large company doing some research ideas.
Google has a history of starting unusual projects. Most of them are eventually defunded and canned.
But that's OK IMO. Google seems to me to be run by very smart people focused on making money, in the long term. Part of that is "crazy" projects that mostly eventually disappear and sometimes turn into something great.
hai vl con bo
sharknado said:
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed that the DScout is a third-party app, but at the same time, I think it is a neat idea. More importantly, this is something I want them to market to me. I don't mind providing companies with personal information or feedback about my tastes if I get what I want in return. It's when they take it without asking that bugs me. Especially when they don't seem to actually do anything in response. At the end of the day, I think it's a good thing if they're making products I want to buy and generally conducting their business in the way I want them to conduct it. If anything, I think the more glaring problem right now is companies NOT listening to people and instead adopting that stupid Apple notion that "people don't know what they want; we have to tell them what they want." If only google actually were listening in on us--then they'd at least know how strongly opposed we are to carriers locking down devices.
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trthrujy ghikvb dfhg
---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 AM ----------
mikereidis said:
Yeah.
PhoneBloks so far is 2 guys "on a mission", not too unlike a 2 guy FSF. The first part of that mission includes gathering enough money for a discussion forum and even that is not complete yet.
Project Ara seems like a "skunkworks" project of a large company doing some research ideas.
Google has a history of starting unusual projects. Most of them are eventually defunded and canned.
But that's OK IMO. Google seems to me to be run by very smart people focused on making money, in the long term. Part of that is "crazy" projects that mostly eventually disappear and sometimes turn into something great.
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navg fghj fduyhjm
---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 AM ----------
sharknado said:
I could definitely see it happening, mainly because I think the project is keeping its aspirations in check. From what I've heard, at least, Ara is not looking to take the idea quite as far as Phonebloks was suggesting. I think that, rather than a Lego phone--where you can make anything you want--they are looking to bring phone hardware more inline with the hardware on computers (excluding those made by Apple, of course). You can already customize pretty much every aspect of your average PC. And the parts are more or less universally compatible: you can put basically any brand of hard drive in basically any computer. But even though it's not quite a Lego-phone, it would still be pretty amazing. Even if the only thing they did was allow you to choose what kind of camera you want on your phone, that would still be a significant improvement over the way things are now. Right now, you can sort of pick the color on some phones. and even that you can only do once, at the time of purchase. (I guess you also get the choice of buying a phone with more storage, but that's only because those phones don't come with external SD card slots. I refuse to count that as an example of customizability.)
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con bo
This whole issue with the Sprint variant of the LG G3 lacking a viable root method has me extremely pissed off.
Not at Sprint or LG. I recognize that it's not in their best interest to make or sell phones that can allow root access with a simple button press. The damage that the average phone user could do would bring their tech support services to a standstill.
Of course, I'm not pissed at the XDA developers. Most of these guys do it for the challenge, and it's not a cheap hobby. Throw in minor distractions like jobs and family issues, and it's easy to understand why they don't jump when people demand that they throw their undivided attention at a device that they may or may not ever really use.
No... I'm pissed at myself. I'm annoyed at my lack of initiative, as I sit around watching the weeks roll by waiting for someone to find a solution to a problem I may be capable of solving. Don't get me wrong... I'm no rocket surgeon who thinks I can do whatever I want through sheer will power. I respect and appreciate the difficulty of developing in the Android ecosystem. But, I also realize that all these developers started somewhere, and all it took to start the ball rolling was the desire to make devices do exactly what they wanted.
Back about 25 years ago, MAME was in it's infancy (it's an arcade game emulator... look it up). I was hoping that someone would make a decent full-size MAME cabinet that would accurately simulate the look and feel of an actual arcade game. After a year of waiting, I lost my patience. I bought a donor cabinet, reverse engineered a front-end that I thought showed promise, and started reading... A LOT. It took a lot of soldering, and trial and error but I ended up with something that I felt was better that anything I'd seen previously. In hindsight, it kinda sucked, but 6 versions later I had a polished arcade emulator that I still own and it's a proud centerpiece of my rec-room. The point of this in not to blow my own horn, but to illustrate that with the right initiative and ability to perform a Google search I could make something that I wanted without having to rely on others. Granted, I did have to rely heavily on the countless people who took the time to document their own technical experiences, but they put it out there for a reason.
I don't expect everyone to follow my lead, but I'm hoping to possibly light a fire under a few people who might have felt the occasional urge to get under the hood of their Android device. If anyone can point me toward a good starting point for developer education, I'd be greatly appreciative. I'm dying to get going on this, and I realize that there will be a root method for my phone looooong before I can even tweak the most elemental code. BUT... I'm hoping that I might be able to help myself and others when I buy my next device, and I challenge anyone who's managed to read all of this novel to do the same.
Might want to fix that ENTER key first.. Your message is good but I have this image of someone frothing at the mouth with the rambling and lack of structure.
I think things like ROOT and bootloader unlocks are a bit beyond the casual hacker these days though.
RHall1340 said:
I think things like ROOT and bootloader unlocks are a bit beyond the casual hacker these days though.
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For the most part, yes. But the exploit that allows root via PurpleDrake is so simple I bet even I could have connected the dots if I had known about the alternate recovery. It was essentially an open door. Of course, I have the benefit of hindsight and I'm still just speculating because I understand how that method works as far as what adb would show about which directories were mounted RW. Knowing what was actually going on in that environment regarding the backup service and how the temp directory was handled by the recovery system took somebody with deeper knowledge and the means to analyze the system behavior.
jcase said himself that he's invested thousands of dollars in hardware that let's him do exactly that, not to mention the hours he and others put in. Like you said, vulnerabilities are getting harder to find with every release, patch, update, etc. And I'm just talking about getting enough access to the file system to slip in the su binary. I don't even know how one could attack the bootloader.
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so we all know HTC is in trouble. The cellphone market is constantly moving forward and looking to the future for their next big thing. I, however, suggest that htc should take a page out of their old book and come out with a next-gen hd2. When I think about freedom in a handset, I think about this phone first and THEN android's early days. We live in a time where mainstream phone manufacturers give us a product and thats that whether we like it or not. my last 4 android phones weren't able to be rooted and so I gave up altogether. I'm currently an iphone user. Not because I think it's better but because I just gave up. I am not happy with todays offerings. I feel like phones should be more advanced now. I mean yeah there are very nice phones today with tiny bezels and crazy specs but I'm speaking more from a OS perspective. Yes pixels are nice, yes samsung has amazing phones but at the end of the day they're only still running android. Android has evolved but, in my eyes, just barely. It's still the same at its core. Back on topic, I think it would be in everybody's best interest if htc were to look back to this phone for the future. This time next year will mark the 10th anniversary of the HD2 and they're in a very troubled state right now so why not? HD3, the all new HTC HD, whatever they may call it is irrelevant as long as they just do it. The smartphone market is stagnant right now, there's countless evidence to support this claim. Manufacturers should start focusing more on operating systems than bezels. It is clearly inevitable that there will eventually be new contestants in the duopoly we have right now.
I'm not sure how to approach this but let's just put it like this. If i had it my way; it's November 2019 and HTC releases the hd3, theres a whole back to the future campaign. they trademark the phrase "the future is in your hands." it's on billboards and ads with the phone sitting comfortably in a pair of palms. there's black hands, white hands, brown hands, robot hands to show that this is the phone for everybody. it runs android by default but it is meant to run other operating systems. HTC has invested money into smaller os manufacturers and home-based devs to develop/port their existing OS. they run competitions and such for people to show off their OS offerings. Not for them to purchase and license but to show that the whole movement is about the people and their freedom phone. the device is a tinkerers dream. The app stores are limited but that isn't the point. We're approaching a time where AI is slowly eliminating the need for 6 billion apps. XDA is the go-to spot again. We need a more capable mobile OS and why shouldn't HTC be one of the first to push that with their hardware. I know microsoft will be putting out the surface phone soon and I'd be willing to bet it will run full windows 10. Why not have a legitimate early competitor to push the agenda? If I want to run ubuntu desktop or kali linux on my phone fluidly why can't I? This may very well be a niche product but it will be huge for developers and will most definitely be a big conversation. That alone would gain some traction. hardware revisions thereafter could include multiple usb-c connectors, maybe an x86 architecture, maybe modularity, maybe this maybe that. I just dream of a pocketable device that would truly feel free of restraints and I believe HTC is the one for the job. Manufacturers are always giving us what THEY think we need instead of actually leaving it up to us. Ask any savvy person what the most legendary smartphone was and they'll say the HD2, ask them why and I guarantee every answer is the same. This is something I am passionate about and I haven't slept yet and I know the format is all messed up but I just wanted to put the idea in peoples heads.
I second this motion. The HTC HD2 Leo I own is a beast. I will admit that it was frustrating at first. I must have soft bricked it half a dozen times messing with settings and software I had no business touching as I didn't have a clue what I was doing. Then I found some good tutorials and finally, the promised land. XDA DEVELOPERS FORUM.
I found that the HD2 was an incredibly versatile and robust piece of tech. I did soft brick it again a time or two, but always I was able to rejuvenate it. The downfall, I believe was Microsoft ending the 6.5 os right after release. That coupled with the power house of android and the backing and resources it had soon overshadowed the HD2. But quite a few kept a place in there heart for it. The capability of the device and the developers to modify and utilize the platform to do extraordinary things has, in my opinion, never been matched. HTC needed a flagship. They were in the pack, but had a desire and opportunity to pull to the forefront. With the HD2 they did surge ahead. They didn't fail us, the market and consumer failed them. Too many got overly frustrated as they failed to understand the accessibility and basic root to pathway to app to accessories. The various models also caused consumers, who were hearing of this wonder of Google and Android, some with the apple iPhone in hand and its "friendly yet restrictive" os, and they rage quit on the HTC.
After reading the above post, I have thought long and hard on what was, what is, and what could be for HD devices. I have several interesting observations.
1. The versatility of the HD2 opened it up to power-users, techs, devs and wide eyed dreamy technophiles like myself. The ability of the HD2 to use Java, WinMo, PPC software, Android and linux gave so many a highly adaptable device for personal preference, personalization and experimentation.
2. The HD2 could act as a PDA, Phone, PC, Diagnostic tool, Microsoft Office companion and controller... The list goes on. Yes you can do all those things with an android or apple device now, but the ability to adjust the hardware settings, application features, information export and format has been greatly handicapped by a gap between developer abilities an end users abilities. Rooting helps with this, but rooting itself is a tricky and iffy prospect. I have noticed that certain areas of focus and purpose for applications have software that does not cover everything desired, or is entirely too broad and basic to be fully accurate. I have found myself and others needing 2 or three applications to accomplish with accuracy what could be done with one openly versatile and layered 'package'.
3. The HTC HD2 is still capable of competing with most of the low to mid level devices on the market today. I can hear some of you rolling your eyes, but I stick by that statement. Even with some outdated components and slower buss and cache speeds, it can hold its own. I attribute that to the versatility.
4. The vision of the HTC HD3 MODULAR COMPONENT ENGINE. Yup. I may be insane after all. Yet my madness has reason, I am just not linguistically skilled enough in Techaneeze to put it to words. Basically, the device by itself is a fully functioning phone with the latest capabilities and trends. The average user will be able to use it straight out the box, though with multiple new options such as dual OS preinstalled, dual SD card slots, Mega More than anyone needs camera resolutions, speakers that actually work loud and clear, maybe predocked gizmos, chochkies and dodads like Bluetooth earpiece(beats me on the design so far), NFC tags or keyring fobs(whatever those are called), a hidden micro sim/sd card compartment, an actual headphone jack, plasma lighter/taser, multi use survival card, toothpick, tweezers, det-cord crimper. OK OK i am being silly, but its late and I am hungry.
The added wow factor is that the HD3 is a driver/interface for a modular expansion platform that can be customized for various trades. IT tools like frequency counter, component tester, etc.; scientific lab tools and sensors; in the field career specific tools for geologist, meteorologist, anthropologists, etc.
So far, i just have envisioned a framework buss with plug in ports for specific electronics and sensors, etc.
I will try to expand on this idea, but I am now at the point that I believe I need to poll the public. I will attempt to create an effective poll(s) at a later time when I have all cylinders firing.
Good night, and good luck!
I just stumbled on to this forum browsing xda in the new year..and as each year passes i feel sad that these HD2 forums get more and more silent ( I bot the HD2 in 2009, the year of its launch) ...strange this phone got so many people to love their device like no other, I guess people remember the joy they felt when they used it and the fact that it was probably the most modded phone on the planet....fact that it ran android marshmallow not too far back is testament to the loyalty of developers and users of this phone who never gave up on it, kept it alive and relevant .... I guess we all miss the extreme flexibility of our beloved device today, of course also miss the huge flutter of activity on the xda forums for this phone, the forums were always buzzing with something new ( ROM, app ) the phone could run or some feature that was finally made to work...so so great to see the above 2 posts in 2018, good to see activity and that people still remember this great device and are still hoping it will be reborn in some form in the future, cheers to that!!!!
Same sentiments here. I bought the hd2 on release in 2009 and it was a lovely device. I remember installing the latest Android ROMs and kernels on it, was so fun. We're at a point if perfection though, most modern devices run at well you hardly need to tinker with them anymore. My Galaxy note 9 and Huawei mate 20 pro are proof to that, these 2 phones are Android in it's perfection but the hd2 will always have a place in our hearts!
I am still amazed to see what the HD2 achieved.. I also bought it in 2009.. had loads of fun flashing it (or may i say them, i ended up having 4 of them at the same time ) whith android and windows.. I still have 2 or 3 of them laying around somewhere.. was an incredible device that gave loads of fun
I am currently looking for an alternative OS or ROM on a phone. My big challenges are I have a great grand fathered in at&t data plan. I don't want to loose and There is no good phone that is both on their list and seems to give me the option to try different ROMS or OS's if one dose not fit my needs.
I truly believe if there is a place that linux could fit best it is on my private device. I don't mind windows for my Daily desktop but in the past few months I have watched the location data icon flash on the top of my phone despite having turned location data off. It would be nothing for google to truly allow us to make this choice on our own. An it always felt wrong to get a google phone hack it and then side load a ROM like copper or even lineage.
I haven't looked into Paranoid Android user yet. The real thing I keep bumping my head against is compatibility with AT&T so I guess I am here to ask the following questions.
If I do a custom OS like Post Market OS, Sailfish, even Ubuntu touch. Will some screw with my AT&T plan while others don't. Its not like I am going to tell them I switching the OS but I imagine there is something in there that allows them to throttle remotely and prevents tethering etc? perhaps one of the choices spoofs that. What is the best ROM/OS for this? Crapy call by the courts on that one BTW when that decision was handed down, and kudos to the absolute BOSS who went after AT&T. Funny thing is I am not even that big of a hot spot user. I have no problem with cafe wifi. It's not like I am doing banking there and I air gap that Laptop from my home wifi. The rare occasion that I have needed it was a recent business trip and even that wasn't allot of data. But I digress.
Second question I want to support the linux community that are building new OS's for existing devices as I think that is really the week point for adoption at this time. I have been thinking about it and I think the best way to do it would be to hire a new developer to give a hand to an existing project for a few weeks. Fresh eyes and all that. Any recommendations on how to select one?
It's not that there is anything wrong with ROM's but they all use AOSP and allot live hardware designed for there retail version android meaning they get at least a licensing fee for each one. I am big believer in actual capitalism in divers markets with real consumer choice. What we have today is not it and supporting the behemoths in any way isn't really the key to success. I could take you down the rabbit hole of how the problem is the government and things like the CIA investment corporation AKA In-Q-Tell. Picking winners and loser's and taking free market's to the wood shed and shooting it in the head. However I think that is enough and it gives my disposition. So, you might Have a good Idea on how to guide me.
Thanks for any help.
WoW no response at all. Did I post this in the wrong place maybe it should be someplace else.
As per the mod bump i guess