Database Users

Lenovo Yoga tablet not booting anymore

Hello,
yesterday I tried to boot my tablet and after the logo "Lenovo" appeared on the screen, nothing happened (the screen was stuck on "Lenovo").
Tried to power off/on several times, same behaviour.
I charged it the whole night, and today when I tried to boot it, after the logo "Lenovo" appeared on the screen, the screen started flickering (random gray/green lines here and there)...
Any help?
Do you think it's a hardware or software problem?
Thanks

did you tried to do something ? any flashing/rooting attempt etc?
in any case you could try flashing a stock rom anew so at least you will know what is the problem... could be anything
(i have assumed you have an android tablet, maybe you could also post the model when asking)

ionioni said:
did you tried to do something ? any flashing/rooting attempt etc?
in any case you could try flashing a stock rom anew so at least you will know what is the problem... could be anything
(i have assumed you have an android tablet, maybe you could also post the model when asking)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rooted it and flashed it a few months ago. Have been using it with multiuser feature (4 users).
Worked until yesterday.
See http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=59609862&postcount=172
Model:
Lenovo Yoga 10 B8000-F tablet
Android version: 4.4.2

[.::MDT::.] said:
I rooted it and flashed it a few months ago. Have been using it with multiuser feature (4 users).
Worked until yesterday.
See http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=59609862&postcount=172
Model:
Lenovo Yoga 10 B8000-F tablet
Android version: 4.4.2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so... try and flash back your stock rom

Or try to wipe data from recovery.....

StepoXX said:
Or try to wipe data from recovery.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.
While booting (when the LENOVO logo appears) I kept pressing VOLUME UP button.
It entered recovery mode, where I deleted cache only (no factory reset).
After that it booted correctly.
I reckon the multiuser feature (I set up 4 users) could maybe use a lot of ram and the device gets stuck.
Not sure how to reproduce the problem, I'll maybe try a factory reset to check if the issue is still there.

Other kind of boot loop...

Hi all!
Here is a little problem that i didn't solved.
i have a N910F Note 4 that likes to boot loop . I received it as it is and don't know what caused it(i suppose that was a rooting issue because had the knox value 1)
During the all time, PC and MAC were unable to recognize the Note 4, despite of repeatedly reinstalled drivers(older and newer versions) , Keys and Smart Switch were unable to recognize the device, PC is failing to install the MTP driver for some reason. I changed the USB ports,restarted,updated drivers,updated windows etc. -NO RESULT. BUT : Somehow Keys is able to run recovery and initialization and install it on the device while saying Connecting device... , phone also doesn't appear in device manager or file explorer as external drive.NOTHING! Odin and Jodin says ''added!'' and starts the job with no comments
1. I tried different versions of boot loaders with different versions of ROM (all for my specific model) with no result.
The end of the boot is when Samsung logo ,sound and graphic appears but freezes before actually starting OS, then restarts. IT keeps restarting until battery goes off(even while connected to pc by usb!!! ). Then starts to charge the battery normally.
It boots in recovery and download mode with no problems, it did every time i flashed it…
2. I tried different versions of boot loaders with stock roms , custom kernels etc...and the problem was the same
3. I tried to flash with Odin the stock 4.4.4 without problems but….the problem was the same
4.I tried Device recovery and initialization with Keys and here something interesting happened:
First time when i did it, it went over the samsung logo and booted. I selected language,i skipped wifi network selection and i accepted the user agreement. No matter how fast i was moving, the boot loop didn't went over the user name selection which is after the user agreement. Then freeze and boot again.
Second time when recovered with Keys (tried more stuff in the mean time) it went over the logo and started to update like…''updating applications 2of 17'' the max reach point was ''3 apps of 17'' and then freeze and reboot
I am out of ideas so i suspect that the battery might be dead because it gets empty even if is charging while phone is ''boot looping''. I ordered a battery,should arrive soon.
If that don't work…i am gonna spend some cash and sent it to Samsung for repairs (i bet that it won't be cheap because they will probably tell me that is the motherboard fried so they make you pay for being a bad boy and tried to root). Far as i know is not a brick as long as download mode and recovery works just fine.
Is here someone that has any new ideas for bringing this phone to life? Any help is well received , maybe i skipped something….
Thank you in advance.

Boot into recovery and perform a factory reset, it will wipe the internal storage.

Battlehero said:
Boot into recovery and perform a factory reset, it will wipe the internal storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was the first thing i tried , cache wiped also. After every rom when booting failed.

UPPME said:
That was the first thing i tried , cache wiped also. After every rom when booting failed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uninstall Kies, and install Samsung USB drivers: https://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=24052804347849220
Take the battery out, leave it for approximately 10 seconds, enter the battery back in.
Hold volume down key + Home key and power on the device.
Then plug the mobile phone into the computer.
Run Odin as Admin: https://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=24052804347851815
Then flash the firmware in the AP section.
Make sure that the firmware is for your region, you can download it from Sammobile or SamFirm.

i have the same problem, but mine doesn't let the samsung logo finish when it shows the letter S on samsung logo it goes restart again no sound or anything, recovery is accesible, download mode is also accessible, i can flash official firmware and factory reset but nothing change, still stuck in bootloop no one here in xda knows how to fix it i think.. or they just never encounter something like this
i know how to fix an ordinary bootloops or soft bricked.. but this one is different.. i think there's something with note 4 that causes this..

kerbiii said:
i have the same problem, but mine doesn't let the samsung logo finish when it shows the letter S on samsung logo it goes restart again no sound or anything, recovery is accesible, download mode is also accessible, i can flash official firmware and factory reset but nothing change, still stuck in bootloop no one here in xda knows how to fix it i think.. or they just never encounter something like this
i know how to fix an ordinary bootloops or soft bricked.. but this one is different.. i think there's something with note 4 that causes this..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it doesn't go after the Samsung graphics , mine does sound. Goes to app updates only after Kies recovery but doesn't go more far than updating apps 3/17 for ex…crushes there and starts over….weird.
One time i managed to actually go to setup menu, choose country,wifi, device name, and there crushed and started over…. So i am thinking now that the battery might be wasted because i saw posts saying that after the 5.0.1 update many Note 4's went to boot loop and the battery change solved the problem. Now i have new battery coming by post.

Hi I had a similar problem but I do not know if that works but always worth a try
1. download recovery - "twrp-2.8.1.0-trltexx"(.tar) cant post link fresh in forum
2. flash recovery through Odin (AP) ( run as administrator)
3. unplug the cable
4. Reboot to Recovery (home+power+wolume up)
5. Then go to Wipe/Advanced Wipe/check the boxes - Dalvik Cache,System,Data,Cache and Swipe to Wipe
6. Reboot to Download Mode
7. Open Odin ( run as administrator) choise the rom to flash
8 Connect the phone
7. Flash Your Stock Rom
8. Reboot
always in Odin load the file first to flash and then connect the phone
sorry for my English

UPPME said:
Yes, it doesn't go after the Samsung graphics , mine does sound. Goes to app updates only after Kies recovery but doesn't go more far than updating apps 3/17 for ex…crushes there and starts over….weird.
One time i managed to actually go to setup menu, choose country,wifi, device name, and there crushed and started over…. So i am thinking now that the battery might be wasted because i saw posts saying that after the 5.0.1 update many Note 4's went to boot loop and the battery change solved the problem. Now i have new battery coming by post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you can stay in recovery mode and download mode for more than 10mins i think its not battery problem, i think i have corrupted system files, i left my note 4 to samsung service center a while ago i will get it tom, i just hope they wont charge me too much for it,
uldyzjan said:
Hi I had a similar problem but I do not know if that works but always worth a try
1. download recovery - "twrp-2.8.1.0-trltexx"(.tar) cant post link fresh in forum
2. flash recovery through Odin (AP) ( run as administrator)
3. unplug the cable
4. Reboot to Recovery (home+power+wolume up)
5. Then go to Wipe/Advanced Wipe/check the boxes - Dalvik Cache,System,Data,Cache and Swipe to Wipe
6. Reboot to Download Mode
7. Open Odin ( run as administrator) choise the rom to flash
8 Connect the phone
7. Flash Your Stock Rom
8. Reboot
always in Odin load the file first to flash and then connect the phone
sorry for my English
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nah it doesnt work thats the first thing I do, that only work on ordinary bootloop

I was stuck in a boot loop the other day trying to flash a stock ROM to get rid of encryption. I tried all the stuff mentioned in this thread which is just standard procedure but I couldn't get past the samsung logo. What it turned out to be was that you need to go to stock recovery after flashing the stock ROM via odin and do a factory data reset then it will boot to the OS. It worked in my case, maybe you can give it a try.

guts100 said:
I was stuck in a boot loop the other day trying to flash a stock ROM to get rid of encryption. I tried all the stuff mentioned in this thread which is just standard procedure but I couldn't get past the samsung logo. What it turned out to be was that you need to go to stock recovery after flashing the stock ROM via odin and do a factory data reset then it will boot to the OS. It worked in my case, maybe you can give it a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you read the above post you will know that we already wipe and factory reset,
btw since i was not able to fix it, it brought it to samsung service center and they also cant fix it so they are changing the motherboard, so far they are not charging me anything and just asking to bring my receipt of purchase so it will be under warranty

kerbiii said:
if you read the above post you will know that we already wipe and factory reset,
btw since i was not able to fix it, it brought it to samsung service center and they also cant fix it so they are changing the motherboard, so far they are not charging me anything and just asking to bring my receipt of purchase so it will be under warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read the post; however, it did not appear as though you did a factory reset after flashing the stock ROM only before. At any rate at least you're getting a new mobo out of it and problem solved.

guts100 said:
I was stuck in a boot loop the other day trying to flash a stock ROM to get rid of encryption. I tried all the stuff mentioned in this thread which is just standard procedure but I couldn't get past the samsung logo. What it turned out to be was that you need to go to stock recovery after flashing the stock ROM via odin and do a factory data reset then it will boot to the OS. It worked in my case, maybe you can give it a try.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
guts100 said:
I read the post; however, it did not appear as though you did a factory reset after flashing the stock ROM only before. At any rate at least you're getting a new mobo out of it and problem solved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes thats the good thing and its under warranty even though im already rooted, with knox 01 and custom binary haha, i was already expecting to pay a huge amount of money but they said they will cover it, so its a blessing, but i hope the OP fixed his problem.

need help with axon 7 a2017u semi bricked

Hi
Yesterday I got my axon 7 and it worked perfect.
Now I was wanted to change the language
So I downloaded as file that in my language
And I tried to install him .
And it worked by the adb software when the axon connected to the computer
So I went to the application in my phone and changed it to my language after USB debugging and developer option is worked
Then the phone was changed to my language and crashed
Now the axon just show the start logo and stuck in restart loop. so I tried to do few thing through your forum , but nothing helped ..
I also cleared the cache through recovery mode but it also didn't help
Its like the axon can't upload the operating system
Thanks a lot for who will help me here.
Also if it possible to send money through PayPal
And if it's legal I will send 30$ to the first that will help me solve this problem

Can you share the link to the file you downloaded ?
Is it compatible with the version of your phone ?
If you can enter in recovery it's enough to save it.

billy_boolean said:
Can you share the link to the file you downloaded ?
Is it compatible with the version of your phone ?
If you can enter in recovery it's enough to save it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea the reason it happened is because I installed wrong adb language on my axon through USB debugging and external app
Now it possible to get into recovery
I just don't know what to do next
I tried few things but I always keep getting errors

You can try to install TWRP.
You will have a lot of option.
There is no option to restor the phone in the official recovery ?

billy_boolean said:
You can try to install TWRP.
You will have a lot of option.
There is no option to restor the phone in the official recovery ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried to use twrp but the computer doesn't recognize My axon

You need to install driver first...

billy_boolean said:
You need to install driver first...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried but after the install the drivers and cheak them in the device manager in my computer
The name of the driver was London marshesll something
And not what I saw in the guide - adb something
And it didn't recognize my device
I wrote also adb reboot bootloader
And it gives me error massage

I would be more then happy to give someone 30$ now..
Just that my axon will work

Did you root your phone, or just use ADB to sideload a file? If it's wasn't rooted/unlocked, then a factory reset should take care of it, as nothing done via ADB in that setup would impact the system partitions.
If you used the unofficial bootloader unlocking, then you'll have to follow other people's restore guides.

As @TeutonJon78 mention, a factory reset will do the job youan boot to stock recovery using adb
Code:
adb reboot recovery
Or doing it manually,
- Completely Power off your device
- Press and HOLD Volume UP and Power button.
- once you boot to recovery just use your volume buttons to navigate FACTORY RESET.
- Reboot System

holding up and down at the same time. get to fastboot mode it says secure boot: enabled and device state: locked. then i entered to recovery mode, and press on "wipe data/factory reset" (said it was successfully finished). then i pressed on "reboot system now". still its stuck on the zte logo

liron lev said:
holding up and down at the same time. get to fastboot mode it says secure boot: enabled and device state: locked. then i entered to recovery mode, and press on "wipe data/factory reset" (said it was successfully finished). then i pressed on "reboot system now". still its stuck on the zte logo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will be honest man. I bricked mine too. Everybody has a step by step guide that they say works. I followed them step by step. They did not work. I have an RMA open on my phone and fedex is taking it to ZTE. Use the warranty. Until Zte puts online the full factory images for us to use there is no real way to fix these things.

liron lev said:
holding up and down at the same time. get to fastboot mode it says secure boot: enabled and device state: locked. then i entered to recovery mode, and press on "wipe data/factory reset" (said it was successfully finished). then i pressed on "reboot system now". still its stuck on the zte logo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you from Israel?
---------- Post added at 11:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------
I know how to help you if you can tell me which bootloader version you have? Did you unlocked it? did you use Tenfar's method to root it?

tabletalker7 said:
I will be honest man. I bricked mine too. Everybody has a step by step guide that they say works. I followed them step by step. They did not work. I have an RMA open on my phone and fedex is taking it to ZTE. Use the warranty. Until Zte puts online the full factory images for us to use there is no real way to fix these things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Were you playing around with the rooting/unofficial bootloader? It should be very hard to actually brick the device without doing those things, and nothing a factory reset shouldn't fix.
If one's playing around with unofficial modifications, then they should take all precautions to make sure to know how to recover the device before hand. There's still a lot of moving pieces between potentially faulty TWRP bugs and no image file.
liron lev said:
holding up and down at the same time. get to fastboot mode it says secure boot: enabled and device state: locked. then i entered to recovery mode, and press on "wipe data/factory reset" (said it was successfully finished). then i pressed on "reboot system now". still its stuck on the zte logo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you let it sit for awhile? First runs after a factory reset can take up to even 10 minutes to boot fully. If it still doesn't work again, check if the recovery menu has another option like wipe cache/davlik, which maybe also needs to run if they have a bug in the recovery code about resetting data. If you hadn't touch anything using the tools on this forum, and none of the factory reset/wipe data/wipe cache stuff helps, then you probably have a faulty phone. Just sideloading an app shouldn't be able to corrupt a locked system partition.
The OP of this thread hasn't yet clarified if he was just sideloading files on a normal system (which should be totally fixable unless his phone has an actual flash problem) or if he had been tinkering with other things first.

TeutonJon78 said:
Were you playing around with the rooting/unofficial bootloader? It should be very hard to actually brick the device without doing those things, and nothing a factory reset shouldn't fix.
If one's playing around with unofficial modifications, then they should take all precautions to make sure to know how to recover the device before hand. There's still a lot of moving pieces between potentially faulty TWRP bugs and no image file.
Did you let it sit for awhile? First runs after a factory reset can take up to even 10 minutes to boot fully. If it still doesn't work again, check if the recovery menu has another option like wipe cache/davlik, which maybe also needs to run if they have a bug in the recovery code about resetting data. If you hadn't touch anything using the tools on this forum, and none of the factory reset/wipe data/wipe cache stuff helps, then you probably have a faulty phone. Just sideloading an app shouldn't be able to corrupt a locked system partition.
The OP of this thread hasn't yet clarified if he was just sideloading files on a normal system (which should be totally fixable unless his phone has an actual flash problem) or if he had been tinkering with other things first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The factory reset made my phone lose it's IMEI. Everyone said follow this certain guide. After following that guide and getting more help after that I had an AXON 7 that wouldn't turn on at all. Without full factory images from ZTE I won't touch the software. ZTE can fix it.

tabletalker7 said:
The factory reset made my phone lose it's IMEI. Everyone said follow this certain guide. After following that guide and getting more help after that I had an AXON 7 that wouldn't turn on at all. Without full factory images from ZTE I won't touch the software. ZTE can fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which guide did you follow? A Factory reset form within the stock software or stock recovery shouldn't cause that problem at all, as it should only be wiping data, cache, Davlik, and potentially the "media" portion of the internal storage.

TeutonJon78 said:
Which guide did you follow? A Factory reset form within the stock software or stock recovery shouldn't cause that problem at all, as it should only be wiping data, cache, Davlik, and potentially the "media" portion of the internal storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The factory reset that made it lose the IMEI - it was completely stock then!

liron lev said:
Hi
Yesterday I got my axon 7 and it worked perfect.
Now I was wanted to change the language
So I downloaded as file that in my language
And I tried to install him .
And it worked by the adb software when the axon connected to the computer
So I went to the application in my phone and changed it to my language after USB debugging and developer option is worked
Then the phone was changed to my language and crashed
Now the axon just show the start logo and stuck in restart loop. so I tried to do few thing through your forum , but nothing helped ..
I also cleared the cache through recovery mode but it also didn't help
Its like the axon can't upload the operating system
Thanks a lot for who will help me here.
Also if it possible to send money through PayPal
And if it's legal I will send 30$ to the first that will help me solve this problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could help you, please pm.

i tried to use the appliction "morelocale2" to chnge my phone language.
i did turn on the usb debugging option through Developer Options.
it all went good until i tried to choose my language from the app (morelocale2) it change to my language got stucked and start looping over and over. (start up and shut dowm).
after that i cleand evrything such as: wipe data/factory and cache data, and then i restart the phone. it is stoped looping but got stucked on logo zte. and after i cleaned the data i waited few houres.
i also think i used an old version of "morelocale2".
and yes im from israel...

liron lev said:
i tried to use the appliction "morelocale2" to chnge my phone language.
i did turn on the usb debugging option through Developer Options.
it all went good until i tried to choose my language from the app (morelocale2) it change to my language got stucked and start looping over and over. (start up and shut dowm).
after that i cleand evrything such as: wipe data/factory and cache data, and then i restart the phone. it is stoped looping but got stucked on logo zte. and after i cleaned the data i waited few houres.
i also think i used an old version of "morelocale2".
and yes im from israel...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wanam
download this app
install it
search hebrew in hebrew
choose hebrew (iw)
accept the root prompt
reboot your phone
everything will be fine
If you have bootloop issues these are not related to the app!
if you need help with this contact me!
you have my info in pm.

Think my G6 may be bricked...

I do not have a great track record when flashing ROMS etc on LG devices..
Today I decided to flash my device back to total stock in prep for the incoming Oreo update and also the dreadful battery life i've been experiencing.
I tried using LGUP first but found that once the device completed it's boot, it got to the 'Android is starting' screen before rebooting.. It did this a few times before I turned it off and booted it into download mode.
I then used LG bridge and flashed everything directly through the Bridge software - This was successful however when it boots it is now doing the same thing.
It will show the boot animation, flash very quick the 'Android is updating/booting/upgrading' white screen before rebooting, showing 'erasing' very quickly then showing the boot animation again.
What am I missing here? Why is this happening?

For some reason flashing stock bricks the phone just factory reset it though the recovery. Tell me did you succeed...

ZinX09 said:
For some reason flashing stock bricks the phone just factory reset it though the recovery. Tell me did you succeed...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So yes, I managed to resolve this somehow.
As I managed to get into fastboot mode, reflashed TWRP and formatted the data partition - reflashing via bridge tool causes the same issue again and I only managed to get eh device to boot after I accidentally booting into safemode and allowing the device to finish optimising. Rebooting into normal mode then worked just fine.

adaimespechip said:
So yes, I managed to resolve this somehow.
As I managed to get into fastboot mode, reflashed TWRP and formatted the data partition - reflashing via bridge tool causes the same issue again and I only managed to get eh device to boot after I accidentally booting into safemode and allowing the device to finish optimising. Rebooting into normal mode then worked just fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant for you to reset through the stock recovery but i guess that works as well.

ZinX09 said:
I meant for you to reset through the stock recovery but i guess that works as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh I see, sorry.. I couldn't get into stock recovery - it would simply erase the device and reboot each time. That was part of the problem..

adaimespechip said:
Oh I see, sorry.. I couldn't get into stock recovery - it would simply erase the device and reboot each time. That was part of the problem..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello i have the same problem how to fix it showing erarsing for sek and that's it.

Mercz23 said:
Hello i have the same problem how to fix it showing erarsing for sek and that's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried to boot to the stock recovery and factory reset it the phone.

same problem here, how did you boot safe mode??

One Plus 6t Bootloop

Hi guys
I've a problem with my oneplus6t (stock no root no TWRP)
One night it was power off the next morning I've connect it to power charge, when it was at 77% I've disconnect it and power on
From this moment it is on a boot loop... Logo One Plus powered by android, logo with circle red and white and after reboot... I've tried all, I can enter in stock recovery or fastboot, wipe cache, reset system settings but nothing it won't boot
There is something that I can try to resolve this problem? I would recover my photos and I've not try to wipe data...
Thank you to all for your help and sorry for my English

tancrazio said:
Hi guys
I've a problem with my oneplus6t (stock no root no TWRP)
One night it was power off the next morning I've connect it to power charge, when it was at 77% I've disconnect it and power on
From this moment it is on a boot loop... Logo One Plus powered by android, logo with circle red and white and after reboot... I've tried all, I can enter in stock recovery or fastboot, wipe cache, reset system settings but nothing it won't boot
There is something that I can try to resolve this problem? I would recover my photos and I've not try to wipe data...
Thank you to all for your help and sorry for my English
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the bootloader unlocked on the device with usb debugging enabled?

:-( no unfortunately
It was completely stock

tancrazio said:
:-( no unfortunately
It was completely stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey there! "I've tried all" doesn't really specify what you did. How does your device respond to pressing all buttons? That's volume-up, volume-down and power simultaneously for at least 10 seconds (hold it longer if it doesn't react). This should at least power down your device completely. Then you can try booting normally, to fastboot or to recovery. A cache wipe may resolve this.
As for photos, wasn't Google Photos sync or similar enabled? There are plenty of cloud sync options nowadays.

no, unfortunately I have not activated any cloud service. I tried everything in the sense that, I did drain all the battery with the boot loop, recharged the battery to 100% but nothing to do, it goes into the boot loop. I tried to hear the one plus assistance, that after cache reset told me to send it to assistance. I tried with several videos on YouTube all possible key combinations including the one that you suggested me... but nothing to do ... I was hoping to be able to do some flashes without deleting the data with MSM download tool, but I have not find anything. Thank you for your help, I would have liked to recover the photos ... I have now bought an iPhone because after years of one plus phones, I cannot longer trust a phone that leaves me on my feet for no reason. sorry for my outburst and thank you again

tancrazio said:
I have now bought an iPhone because after years of one plus phones, I cannot longer trust a phone that leaves me on my feet for no reason. sorry for my outburst and thank you again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, for what it's worth: try jailbreaking an iP... an iPh... (sorry, can't say it) and then ask for support
But you're right, 1+ did fail us in the long run IMHO. Just note that not having backups is not on them.