Related
Hello.. I have been sinking my teeth into this realm for several weeks, and have noticed there seems to be a fairly important topic that is rather underdocumented.
People throw the word "ROM" around, but really with these devices there are several layers of software at work in this regard. I'm about to sound like the ultimate noob, so forgive me. But for example, users hear of a "splash screen ROM".. we read about SPL and its variants.. and of course the OS images everyone here loves.. somewhere in here there is a region accessed and manipulated by MTTY. So what it means to "flash a ROM" can vary wildly.
What I need (and many others would benefit from) is a link to a document that maps this out, describing each of the divisions of the device's low-level software, how they fit into the boot sequence and overall picture, and ideally, which of our tools they are connected to.
What happens once Windows loads is well documented, but what happens before this seems to be as crucial as it is undocumented (that I know if). Many people on these forums are quite technical, despite admitted ignorance of mobile device architecture. A better understanding of the playing field would eliminate much of the confusion users face. Many of the tools themselves are well documented in terms of usage, but their actual technical impact is a mystery to many.
Can anyone recommend any such reference(s) that might de-mystify the architectural aspect of our beloved phones and ROMs?
Heads up.... I wonder what they say!
stuart-buchy said:
Heads up.... I wonder what they say!
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I'd guess usual comparisons to the iPhone and thet the camera isn't amazing. They didn't actually say what phones they are going to review when the spoke about the segment on the show though. They did manage to do a reasonable review of the Nokia N95 and it won on features over the original iPhone. Only time will tell. At least it's not Jason doing the review. Just my honest opinion.
What day time and channel? I would be interested in looking at that...
Only 3 G's because it's not an iPhone or Android
Edit... This one?
TECHNOLOGY: The Gadget Show
On: Five (105)
Date: Monday 15th February 2010 (starting in 6 days)
Time: 20:00 to 21:00 (1 hour long)
Consumer technology show presented by Jason Bradbury, Suzi Perry, Jon Bentley and Ortis Deley. Suzi and Jason compete to shoot rival pop music videos. Suzi teams up with Fightstar while Jason works with Har Mar Superstar. Elsewhere, Jon tests smartphones in Italy and Ortis heads to the Czech Republic to view the amazing Snow Glider. And the whole team gathers to assemble a Top Five list of the best mobile-phone apps available.
(Followed by Five News at 9, Subtitles, 3 Star)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marked By: 'Favourite: The Gadget Show' and 'Search for keywords' markers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from http://www.getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=243015
Copyright (c) GipsyMedia Limited.
+£50 they're going to down rate it simply because it uses WinMo, and say only that its "old, and not finger friendly", despite the first having no real relevance, and the second being near irrelevent too seeing as hardly anyone has that sort of problem with the HD2.
Fair play if they mark it down on random lag or crap keyboard though.
I like the Gadget Show but their tests are usually rubbish, I'm sure they are secretly sponsored by apple!! Even when iPhone looses all the tests they still say its better.
From what I saw at the end of last weeks show it looked like they had the HD2 up against the nexus one, but I do hope they bring the iPhone into the mix too.
I'm sure it will be the same old story, Win all the hardware tests, be the best device at most tasks, but will give it a crap rating cos the thicko's don't know how to use windows mobile!!
The Gadget show in the UK is the worst pile of drivel ever to grace our television screens.
It is a complete insult to intelligence and the only kind of people that watch it are those who want to know what objects are currently "cool"... unfortunately... the presenters of the show (and it is apparent the producers and researchers also) are completley clueless about ANY kind of tech.
The whole show ends up being a bit like the blind leading the blind.
Great New Game for All the Family
Gadget Show Lottery:
Guess how long it will take for any of the grinning ninnies presenting the show to mention the word 'Apple'
Score extra if there is a little bit of drool on their chins
Score even more if there is a visible disturbance in the trouser region
Last Week's Winner:
Mrs J.Froster from Newton Abbott, with a guess of 38 seconds. Mrs Froster wins the new iCar - identical to a real car only twice the size, entirely unusable and spectacularly unable to fulfill its basic purpose...but beautifully designed and specially marketed to hide the flaws. Available in white
Audio Oblivion said:
The Gadget show in the UK is the worst pile of drivel ever to grace our television screens.
It is a complete insult to intelligence and the only kind of people that watch it are those who want to know what objects are currently "cool"... unfortunately... the presenters of the show (and it is apparent the producers and researchers also) are completley clueless about ANY kind of tech.
The whole show ends up being a bit like the blind leading the blind.
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I think your being a little harsh but I do agree to a certain extent.
I still enjoy the show, but thats what its becoming "A Show" a bit like what happened with Top Gear, General sillyness with the odd bit of usefull information popping in now & then, it looks like this is whats happening to the Gadget Show too.
I still love Top Gear even though they don't review normal cars that much etc. But I love it as a Show.
Gustopher said:
Gadget Show Lottery:
Guess how long it will take for any of the grinning ninnies presenting the show to mention the word 'Apple'
Score extra if there is a little bit of drool on their chins
Score even more if there is a visible disturbance in the trouser region
Last Week's Winner:
Mrs J.Froster from Newton Abbott, with a guess of 38 seconds. Mrs Froster wins the new iCar - identical to a real car only twice the size, entirely unusable and spectacularly unable to fulfill its basic purpose...but beautifully designed and specially marketed to hide the flaws. Available in white
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Click to collapse
LOL, Classic!! Top Marks!!
If you want to watch
http://fwd.five.tv/gadget-show/videos/jon-test/samrtphones
HD2 came out on top
just watched that crappy review.
the gadget show must think thats all people do with a smart phone is post tweets and take pictures. no real comparison about email integration, battery life, customization, ease of use, usability, speaker quality, call quality etc, etc, etc.
smartphones are not meant to be judged on how easily they integrate with your social networks, though its a nice feature when they do.
stop comparing to the iphone, it wasnt even reviewed and its not an iphone.
rubbish program that has the specially made steve jobs blinkers on.
Agreed, the review was the briefest things I've ever seen, didn't go indepth on any of the phones at all. He might as well have just covered how the phones felt in his pocket.
The phones covered in the review were: Motorola Milestone, HD2 & Nexus One.
I LOL'd when he described the Nexus One as Google's own phone
Jon Bentley is doing the review - friend of mine - the HD2 was on 1.43 firmware!
What I found particuarly amusing was that he liked the keyboard!! And when he was looking at the pictures he said they weren't bad but I could see some distinctive pink tinging!
BUT at least the HD2 beat the other phones quite clearly. Although did anyone else notice, they didn't actually answer the question that everyone wanted to know... is the HD2 better than the iphone At least he did add very quickly that the HD2 was superior to the iphone in terms of hardware which is really pretty much undeniable fact.
Hey guys very very important question , it's about the sar rating when we make calls . Sar represents radiation hazards to the brain and , most phones have predetermined valuethat is approved before they are sold for safety . Please can somebody do a test about this
htc hd2 running on winmo is safe but running on builds like the ones here we are not sure
i hope that the forum members and the developers for tons can find out and let us know.
Very very important !!!
im taking a guess here, but wouldn't it depend on your radio rom not the build?
can someone confirm or dispute this?
primaraly your looking at hardware such as antana and shielding. im doubtfull that diferent radio packages are going to boost things to unacceptable levels, otherwise mfg's wouldnt cook them up.
both winmo and android runs on the same radio regardless of wich one is booted.
does that make you feel more warm and fuzzy on the inside?...... or is it from to much radiation?
Once again, cell phone radiation poses absolutely no dangers to the tissues of your body.
You want to know why?
There is not enough energy in the radio waves.
There is less energy coming off of your cell phone's radio transmitter than there is coming off of your computer screen that you interpret as visible light.
Learn2highschoolphysics
enneract said:
Once again, cell phone radiation poses absolutely no dangers to the tissues of your body.
You want to know why?
There is not enough energy in the radio waves.
There is less energy coming off of your cell phone's radio transmitter than there is coming off of your computer screen that you interpret as visible light.
Learn2highschoolphysics
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Click to collapse
That's right
But if it does still, you won't die because of this radioation. It will only make you sterile if you carry your phone always near of your balls.
But then again if there are safety requirements about this than it is only
Logical to know that if a device exceeds a safe limit then it means
It could pose a health issue.
With that in mind , I hope that a test could be done to resolve the worry.
The radiation also has to with the antenna and battery consumption during
When the phone is searching for signal etc.
Thank you for the reply some of you have given.
ok, first, try educating your self before posting the same drivel in a bunch of diferent threads.
had you spent as much time searching how sar is tested as you did posting , you would have found that its tested @ the hardwares max output.
hmm... the software comes no wheres near pushing the hardware to the limit.
the radio software is the same in both WM mode and in Android mode
therefore this would lead to the conclusion that if it passed federal standards for sar emissions when run @ full hardware output, and we arnt driving it that hard, that we are at a level LOWER than what it was tested...
fariez44 said:
I hope that a test could be done to resolve the worry.
The radiation also has to with the antenna and battery consumption during
When the phone is searching for signal etc.
Thank you for the reply some of you have given.
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please fwd me your bank info, and each specific condition you would like it tested.
its not cheep
http://www.metlabs.com/Services/Wir...ywgP2vhaUCFSBugwodfX3aOw.aspx?_kk=SAR+testing
http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/03/01/miller.html
http://www.rfexposurelab.com/
Well thanks for the information , I was looking for an explanation as such
It seems you resolved my doubts and thanks once again.[/B]
Need to take care of ourselves
I keep seeing people who claim to have headaches in the morning whenever they use specific builds. We also know some builds provide better cell signal and wifi capabilities. I strongly guess there is a difference between radiation levels of different builds.
If someone leads us to measure the SAR levels of builds under this forum to get an "XDA approval", we can surely all donate to her/him. Then we also can prefer the builds acording to their radiation levels.
Someone with knowledge please help us to determine:
- methods of measurement
- rules and standards of approving the builds
- safety classification according to SAR levels
Radiation is no joke. We are the only big enough developer community to provide this standardization to custom builds.
Radio waves are not ionizing, and thus do not carry enough energy to pose any danger whatsoever.
It is physically impossible.
enneract said:
Radio waves are not ionizing, and thus do not carry enough energy to pose any danger whatsoever.
It is physically impossible.
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The effect of mobile phone radiation have been studied by a lot of scientists. There are thousands of articles about this topic. I agree that there are contradicting results but no single one claims as you said: "it is physically impossible" Or no scientist refused to do the research assuming that the high school physics is enough to finish the argument.
In fact a lot of researchers came into the conclusion that there is a corelation between cancer and mobile phone radiation.[1,2,3]
It has been basicly studied for the short and long term hazards. Long term hazards have not been completely studied yet due to the short history of word wide mobile phone usage. Short term hazards have been proven such as decrease in cognitive functions and prolonged response times. [4]
1. http://journals.lww.com/epidem/page...=2004&issue=11000&article=00003&type=abstract
2. http://oem.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/64/9/626.pdf
3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19285839
4. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=69BCBB4C4AC1B054C0B953A974547C77.d03t01
baybenbey said:
I keep seeing people who claim to have headaches in the morning whenever they use specific builds
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Id bet that has wayyyy more to do with screen settings, size, brightness resolution refresh rate comparative brightness of the room( dark room more eye strain) than radiation.
Take two or three flights and you'll already have been exposed more than a small transmitter will give in its lifetime.
I have to admit I keep getting headaches with some phones when having long phonecalls. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the screen (always off during calls) or heating up of the phone (all about the same temperature while in use). In the past I would have laughed, but since I paid attention on when and where those headaches started, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the phone radiation. Yes, the general radiation levels are pretty low, but still, they are concentrated at our heads and some of us might be more receptive than others.
First I noticed it with my old HTC Trinity. When I moved to an area with generally low reception, I kept getting headaches during phonecalls, while not having them in other areas where the reception was fine. Those headaches always started on the side of the head, where I held the phone. When switching to a bluetooth headset (which has much lower radiation levels) the headaches were gone.
Another example was the Nokia N73 which I had to use for a job I did. I never had a phone before and after which had such an excellent reception. Areas where I couldn't even get a signal with other phones, were no problem for the N73. I could make and receive phone calls without any problems (1-2 bars). For 3 days I had the phone around my neck with a lanyard. So it was resting on my chest all the time. And I can say for a fact that I got a weird feeling at exact that point. When removing the phone from the lanyard or replacing it with a dummy unit or switching it off, it stopped ...
There are various other phone where I can reproduce that. Unfortunatly.
I'm pretty sure too, that different builds have different radiation levels and the radio rom is not the only thing affecting those. When running WP7 on the HD2 I got headaches very fast (after 5 minutes) being on the phone. With Android (at least the ROM I use) and WM 6.5 those headaches only start after 1+ hour on the phone and even then much less. The radio rom might limit the maximum output, but the specific reception control still comes from within the OS.
So since I seem to be pretty sensitive on this, I'm cool with Android on the HD2. I don't get any more headaches than with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or other "low-SAR-phones"). However with WP7 on the HD2 I had serious problems having long conversations over the phone, comparable to my experience with the HTC Trinity in low reception areas. But I don't think that any of those levels are life threatening - it's just an inconvinience (at least for me). But being a gadget fan and geek that's a little bit of a letdown, having to admit that those things might actually be harmful in one way or another.
baybenbey said:
The effect of mobile phone radiation have been studied by a lot of scientists. There are thousands of articles about this topic. I agree that there are contradicting results but no single one claims as you said: "it is physically impossible" Or no scientist refused to do the research assuming that the high school physics is enough to finish the argument.
In fact a lot of researchers came into the conclusion that there is a corelation between cancer and mobile phone radiation.[1,2,3]
It has been basicly studied for the short and long term hazards. Long term hazards have not been completely studied yet due to the short history of word wide mobile phone usage. Short term hazards have been proven such as decrease in cognitive functions and prolonged response times. [4]
1. http://journals.lww.com/epidem/page...=2004&issue=11000&article=00003&type=abstract
2. http://oem.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/64/9/626.pdf
3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19285839
4. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=69BCBB4C4AC1B054C0B953A974547C77.d03t01
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Yet, every study focusing on the overall cancer rate in comparison to cell phone adoption has found no correlation. There are numerous experimental problems with actually studying the supposed effect directly (in fact, there was a new york times article earlier this week written by an oncologist enumerating those problems, and why the research, either way, on this subject is fundamentally flawed).
However, the fact remains that if you are scared of this latest nonsensical boogeyman, you should also avoid exposure to all EM radiation of radio and higher energies - you know, radio waves, microwaves, infrared and visible light - goodluck!
I have to admit I keep getting headaches with some phones when having long phonecalls. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the screen (always off during calls) or heating up of the phone (all about the same temperature while in use). In the past I would have laughed, but since I paid attention on when and where those headaches started, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the phone radiation. Yes, the general radiation levels are pretty low, but still, they are concentrated at our heads and some of us might be more receptive than others.
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Obviously there is no way that you can get a headache from listening to a speaker placed a few millimeters from your ear for an extended period of time. Obviously, no bloody idiot would think that.
Re-read my post ;-) the speaker has nothing to do with the headaches...
Jeez this whole discussion sounds like one of those stupid news lead-ins like 'find out whats killing your kids... ...right after the break'
Surely there are worthier things to worry about than the radiation from cel phones. Just tune in to Fox News, you'll find plenty of ridiculous crap to worry about. Ask yourself this : if you know for sure that when you're 70 you'll have cancer from using cel phones all your life, will that be enough to make you stop using them now? I'll take the cancer over going back to pagers and pay-phones.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
What's the problem discussing possible downsites of customizing our devices? It's not black and white, you know. We can discuss this stuff, and use phones accordingly to our findings and knowledge.
And as said before: It's not (only) about cancer (or any other long term damage this might cause). There are obviously short term effects for some people, why not try minimizing those?
I think it's no difference between WinMo or android builds radiation because the hardware it's the same whit its limitations....even if this wasn't true the livel of sar are not so high to damage our brain(it's possible some biological effect)...so take it easy...only God knows...perhaps
It is really weird that some people here, agrssively oppose individuals who are sharing their concerns by stating some scientific findings about the hazards of SAR. What is the purpose of trying to insult and silence people on the discussion of such a potential risk? Weird!
In the previous references I shared, more than one study of 10+ year of mobile phone usage statistics point out an increased incidence of brain cancer. There are many studies with this result.
And secondly, I found few articles which completely refuses the hazards and defends the safety of mobile phone radiation by agressively opposing(like some people here) the related scientific data. Most of them are suspiciously published from Finland(Country of Nokia). These articles are written in an ideologic and biased manner and falsify all the findings which prove the cancer corelation as nocebo effect or false positive. Or they study the effects of SAR on skin epitheliel cells(relatively resistant against radiation) instead of brain glial cells(sensitive to radiation) and -no surprise- in the end there is no serious harmfull effect... These articles urge to come into the conclusion that SAR is as lovely as blessing of God! Take a look at the discussion section of wikipedia on this topic. All editors complain biased and frequent editing of the page by someone who is adding suggestive sentences to defend the safety of SAR. Hmm...
According to some people here, by looking at the relative wavlength and frequency, microwaves are supposed to be less harmfull than visible light. In fact we can cook a chicken in a microwave oven but not in a sunny beach. SAR can not be found safe by comparing only wavelength/frequency. Who tries to do that obviously misses 3 major points which are:
- distance from source
- intensity of rays
- duration of exposure.
Anyway, even the fanatic SAR defenders in scientific community do not defend it by such a point of view.
http://anandtech.com/show/10081/wifi-testing-with-ixia-wavedevice/4
Anandtech just got a really fancy, manufacturer-grade WiFi testing setup and did some initial testing with the iPad Pro and the Pixel C.
In the case of the iPad Pro and Pixel C, we found that WaveDevice was able to show a number of notable interesting data points from both an end user perspective and an engineering perspective. With the rate vs range test, it was possible to clearly see how well a device would perform in response to worsening reception from a user experience perspective. From an engineering perspective, it was possible to identify the root cause for the Google Pixel C’s poor Wi-Fi performance by using WaveAnalyze and an RF analysis blade in WaveDevice. While determining the root cause is still beyond what we can do with limited information on the hardware, an OEM would be able to act on the information provided by WaveDevice to improve their product before it reaches mass production.
In addition to the rate vs range test, the roaming latency test was quite illuminating. While root cause analysis is more difficult and best left to actual engineers, it’s quite obvious that the iPad Pro passed this test with flying colors while the Pixel C shows some serious deficiencies. If you regularly encounter large Wi-Fi networks with multiple access points all under a single SSID/name like eduroam, it’s obvious that the Pixel C will be an exercise in frustration if you’re hoping to keep a working Wi-Fi connection on the move. Even when the device roams successfully, the time that the device spends moving from one access point to the next is long enough on average to result in noticeable connection interruptions. When it doesn’t roam successfully, it seems to get stuck on a single access point and basically drops off the network entirely without manual intervention or has to re-authenticate and acquire a new IP address, which is guaranteed to cause most traffic to be dropped.
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In a nutshell, we might need to file a class action lawsuit.
I'm not very technically minded, so just wondering in simple terms, does the article suggest this might be a hardware issue? Something that can't be fixed with future software updates? Thx
aalin13 said:
I'm not very technically minded, so just wondering in simple terms, does the article suggest this might be a hardware issue? Something that can't be fixed with future software updates? Thx
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From the article:
It may be that we're looking at something like improper impedance matching somewhere in the system, amplifiers that are either poorly selected or poorly integrated, and/or a phase-locked loop somewhere that isn’t set up or designed properly for this task.
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Basically, they said they are not familiar enough with the hardware in the Pixel C to say if the problem is hardware or software related. Google probably knows, but good luck getting them to admit to anything.
oRAirwolf said:
Basically, they said they are not familiar enough with the hardware in the Pixel C to say if the problem is hardware or software related. Google probably knows, but good luck getting them to admit to anything.
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Thanks, so there is still hope. This wifi concern is the only thing holding me back from buying one right now, my Nexus 10 has started to have issues with random reboot and extremely slow charging (20 hours to go from 20% to 100%), so I'm thinking of buying a Pixel C as a replacement
aalin13 said:
Thanks, so there is still hope. This wifi concern is the only thing holding me back from buying one right now, my Nexus 10 has started to have issues with random reboot and extremely slow charging (20 hours to go from 20% to 100%), so I'm thinking of buying a Pixel C as a replacement
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For the record, I have absolutely no problems with WiFi with my Pixel C. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with a highly saturated WiFi environment. I think the WiFi is unquestionably bad, but my usage scenario generally revolves around reading the news while pooping and watching media in airports/airplanes. In my scenario, none of the problems have even remotely affected me.
oRAirwolf said:
For the record, I have absolutely no problems with WiFi with my Pixel C. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with a highly saturated WiFi environment. I think the WiFi is unquestionably bad, but my usage scenario generally revolves around reading the news while pooping and watching media in airports/airplanes. In my scenario, none of the problems have even remotely affected me.
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Haha, sounds like how I use my tablet as well, and I also live in an apartment with saturated WiFi. Guess I can always buy it and return it if the WiFi is an issue. When you say WiFi is unquestionably bad, do you mean that it is slower and has weaker signal than other devices? Given that my home internet is still on DSL, I think I might not even notice the difference in WiFi speed
aalin13 said:
Haha, sounds like how I use my tablet as well, and I also live in an apartment with saturated WiFi. Guess I can always buy it and return it if the WiFi is an issue. When you say WiFi is unquestionably bad, do you mean that it is slower and has weaker signal than other devices? Given that my home internet is still on DSL, I think I might not even notice the difference in WiFi speed
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I just mean that the problems are widely reported and backed by the test data in that article. I have never had any noticeable issues myself, though.
No surprise here.
IPad Pro is a $1000+ real product with the full forces of Apple R&D, manufacturing and Q&A behind it.
Pixel C is more like a prototype made by a small team inside a big company whose core business isn't to build and sell devices.
It's borderline silly to compare these 2 without comparing the budgets, the staff and the marketing/sales "intentions".
That's been said there is no doubt the Pixel C has room for wifi optimizations but then is this really necessary ? it's not meant to be widely sold at a huge scale. Its purpose is not to have the best wifi possible. I'd rather have Google staff working on next gen Android & Chrome OS features for the Pixel C rather than wasting their time fine tuning & optimizing its wifi...
People should stop considering the Pixel C as a real product. It's more like a dev kit / prototype / experimentation device. Not a real device that you can find in a shop next door like an IPad or a Samsung tablet. It's meant for Googlers to work on new features, for 3rd party apps devs to prepare their next gen apps and for tech enthusiasts to preview stuff.
So, in that context, thinking about a class action is just plain silly.
No problems at all with WiFi. How can ortople be sure it's not an external factor at play? I wouldn't trust Anandtech. They take bribes from anyone with deep edbough pockets. No better than paid for survey companies.
Until they post an ethics and gifting policy, you should disregard anything they have to say.
What exactly is the wifi issue? I got a Pixel C recently, knowing about the issue roughly; but I've never had any issues. I just ran a Speedtest connected to a 5Ghz network and pulled down 106Mbps (down) and 25Mbps (up); this is about the same I get on a wired connection (actually better on average, for some reason).
i've had absolutely no issues, either, but i also have a device from the newer batch (612300) and i'm running n. it actually works better than my nexus 10 in some cases, though i have yet to test it in an area with saturated wifi.
CrazyPeter said:
I wouldn't trust Anandtech. They take bribes from anyone with deep edbough pockets. No better than paid for survey companies.
Until they post an ethics and gifting policy, you should disregard anything they have to say.
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I am not saying you are wrong, but I have never seen anything to give me the impression that their objective testing is skewed in any way. They clearly have subjective opinions about products and it is no secret they tend to lean towards iOS devices. That being said, they generally have, by far, the most thorough, quantifiable testing and results of any mobile device review site.
Do you have any sources or examples to back up your claims? I would definitely like to know, as I do consider them to be a trusted source for thorough, numbers based, and high level reviews. I tend to leave the subjective opinions up to myself, though.
Proved my deep suspicions from Day 1 and yes there is absolutely ground for a class action here since this product is being sold as the Android tablet , not an experimental product with a disclaimer that core features like wifi may be seriously broken.
undertaker2k14 said:
Proved my deep suspicions from Day 1 and yes there is absolutely ground for a class action here since this product is being sold as the Android tablet , not an experimental product with a disclaimer that core features like wifi may be seriously broken.
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ROFL so what's a class action gonna do? Get you like $300 cash or $500 of Google play, after 3-4 years.
If you don't want the tablet, sell it, and give it someone who wants it
May be nudge Google's hardware team towards better QAand something is always better than nothing.
No issues with wifi, either using my home router or tethering. So I don't know what the issue is as a practical matter.
Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk
I would be interested to know what scenario people are reporting good Wi-Fi performance in. I know that my c definitely has a problem as soon as the Wi-Fi signal drops below -75dB. This happens when trying to use when in the garden. The main issue is that it drops the connection and refuses to connect to it again without the Wi-Fi being switched on & off. It reminds me of the behaviour that I used to get with the 'don't connect to connecting with poor Wi-Fi signal' - except that -75dB isn't really a low signal. All my other android devices (oneplus 2, hudl2 & Nexus 5) all give reliable performance at the same distance (20m).
boboskins said:
I would be interested to know what scenario people are reporting good Wi-Fi performance in. I know that my c definitely has a problem as soon as the Wi-Fi signal drops below -75dB. This happens when trying to use when in the garden. The main issue is that it drops the connection and refuses to connect to it again without the Wi-Fi being switched on & off. It reminds me of the behaviour that I used to get with the 'don't connect to connecting with poor Wi-Fi signal' - except that -75dB isn't really a low signal. All my other android devices (oneplus 2, hudl2 & Nexus 5) all give reliable performance at the same distance (20m).
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Only had this tablet a week but I have had no Wifi issues and I live in an apartment with metal studs that cause problems for many of my other devices. As a matter of fact I write this sitting in a garden with a -80db signal. I am on N so that may (I hope) have something to do with my lack of wifi issues.
here is a comparsion of my Pixel vs my phone 10 feet from the router. My phone saturates my link, while the pixel comes up 100mbps short. It is still fast enough...but at further ranges it gets worse fast.
https://goo.gl/photos/NdC3KG4186xuifDW6
oRAirwolf said:
For the record, I have absolutely no problems with WiFi with my Pixel C. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with a highly saturated WiFi environment. I think the WiFi is unquestionably bad, but my usage scenario generally revolves around reading the news while pooping and watching media in airports/airplanes. In my scenario, none of the problems have even remotely affected me.
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Same here, I live in a tiny, packed city (1.3 square miles, about 50k people) across the river from NYC and I have easily 15-20 WAPs showing up on any wifi device and while I did have wifi problems, turns out it was my sh!tty verizon router and the overly packed 2.4 GHz band. Once I got an AC router and hopped on the 5 GHz band I've had no problems at all!
natezire71 said:
What exactly is the wifi issue? I got a Pixel C recently, knowing about the issue roughly; but I've never had any issues. I just ran a Speedtest connected to a 5Ghz network and pulled down 106Mbps (down) and 25Mbps (up); this is about the same I get on a wired connection (actually better on average, for some reason).
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I've only seen problems connecting with very poor wifi signals. The only time I ever really had problems connecting was in a hotel where it would see the WAP, try to connect and then fail, even with the "only connect to strong WAPs" option turned off. I have no problems at my apartment or at my parent's house.
undertaker2k14 said:
Proved my deep suspicions from Day 1 and yes there is absolutely ground for a class action here since this product is being sold as the Android tablet , not an experimental product with a disclaimer that core features like wifi may be seriously broken.
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I'm sorry but people like you are the reason why we need labels on everything warning someone about every possible thing that could happen, just so they can cover their a$$es in case some idiot attempts to sue for something ridiculous (e.g. a warning on a jar of peanuts that says "warning: contains peanuts!"....yes, Planter's peanuts actually has that warning on the jar lol). I think you're using a bit of hyperbole there, the wifi is not "seriously broken" because it obviously works fine for most people, including myself and it seems like largely a software issue since Cheep5k8 has largely fixed most of the issues with his kernel. There's probably not even a large enough amount of people that even on the Pixel C, I wouldn't doubt that less than 50k have it. It's a pretty expensive device that wasn't really marketed at all, not many people outside of Android/Tech geeks know about it.
beardymcgee said:
ROFL so what's a class action gonna do? Get you like $300 cash or $500 of Google play, after 3-4 years. If you don't want the tablet, sell it, and give it someone who wants it
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More like $3.00 or $4.00 :laugh: Have you even been involved in a class action lawsuit? I've gotten the emails before that says I could claim a payment if I wanted to but the payouts are hysterically laughably low, I think for the Amazon e-book price fixing scandal, I could claim about 10-30 cents because I bought like 5 books from them over the course of a few years. I think the biggest payout I've ever received was a few bucks and that maybe have been on a few hundred dollar purchase, hell even class action lawsuits on cars that cost $30k+ receive payouts of maybe a few hundred dollars hahahaha Instead of selling it and getting something that works better he'd rather keep the tablet then ***** and complain about how the wifi sucks and he deserves to be repaid for buying something with sub-par wifi
Thought I would post this to the community for a light reading..
Behind the scenes the big money is gearing up for the takeover of the car console and one way to do this is via these systems.
If you haven't read how much "Here Maps" sold for the do a google search on it.. that and we already see cross interface information from Waze showing up in Google maps..
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/volvo-google-android-infotainment-polestar-2/
Interesting enough.. the banter had with another poster on "interaction" of these units while driving brings up the point of liability.
If a driver is using these systems and crashes and
a: kills someone
b: kills themselves..
c: hurts or maim
Then it could be argued that the units are at fault..
Of course this is wear motion sensors come into play in that the acknowledgement screen is presented and agreed that the driver is not the one controlling the screen..
Thus hands free kits on steering wheels should in theory get better.. ie maybe trackpads embedded into the steering wheel.. so it's controlled by feel like a mouse so no need for eyes off road..
Please note just theories here and shouldn't be be taken as "as driver shouldn't have a licence if they use this while driving type ultimatum. As it's a bigger discussion then that..
And another one..
https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/01/t...ce-is-heating-up-and-will-be-won-in-software/
I am guessing that there are a few readers as most of us that have been early adopters are also interested in the code and tech behind the unit's we use..
As this last article states.. the space is only going to get hotter with this amount of money getting thrown at it.
Mind you that doesn't do anything for those poor bigger suffering from low quality mish mash of parts that are featured in these units we have got.
Hats off to those that tinker with the hardware and develop the roms.
Your making the world a better place for us plebs that are end users and don't have the knowledge or time and just want all our wishes in one little box to work..
dgcruzing said:
And another one..
https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/01/t...ce-is-heating-up-and-will-be-won-in-software/
Mind you that doesn't do anything for those poor bigger suffering from low quality mish mash of parts that are featured in these units we have got.
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I've honestly started to wonder what it would take to design and build a higher quality unit. Everything about these Chinese units we're all using is terrible, non-ergonomic and buggy. From the glossy, cheap screens, to the power supplies that seem to cause most of the poor quality audio issues on the newer units…
I'd pay more for something better.
Yes, I think most of us here would.
As 30+ years ago I spent 2 weeks wages on getting the best system I could for the car back then..
LOL, Apprenticeship wages and that was a 45 hour week ..
When you think about it, most of us are using $1,000+ phones thus if and when there is consistency with this equipment then I am sure that is a price point that could be achieved.
Just need one of the majors to really have a go at it much like some have with the TV setup box's.
With luck, an extension of the Google Home devices into the car is on the way soon enough.
Understand at the moment that Android Auto is being perfected at the moment for this very day.