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My persistent knocking on the doors of mobile phone providers within a 30 mile radius from my home finally paid off today when I finally managed to get my hands on a HD2 (hoorah).
I have always said that there is no way on earth I would spend over £500 ona sim free device without first seeing one in the metal and testing it out. No one in their right mind buys a house or car without first seeing it and, if appropriate, testing it out before buying.
First Impressions:
Even though I had seen a dummy earlier, the size of the screen does come as a bit of a surprise. However this is a very thin device which makes the whole thing just about manageable. It is not quite as in-your-face, size-wise, as, say, the Toshiba TG01. Be aware though that there is absolutely a shedload of real screen estate to play with on the HD2.
Build quality looked very good. The back plate looks like a well machined item. I tweaked the keys around a little but did not experience the "wobble" that others have talked about.
The screen is a fingerprint magnet of the first order; however it is nothing a quick blow of hot, moist breath and a clean handkerchief can't cure very quickly. Maybe an appropriate screen protector might be helpful; however I cannot confirm.
Something else that was immediately apparent was just how fast the device is. Apps opened near instantaneously and the device was simply a joy to use.
The camera was rather interesting: as a brand new device, straight out of the box and booted up for the first time, the camera screen started up with a pink hue across the whole of the screen. I immediately thought of the pink issue that a lot of people have spoken about. However after about a minute the camera settled down and the pinkish hue cleared up.
The guy from o2 said that he had seen this start-up effect on all of the cameras he had seen/used/demonstrated/sold to date so I am assuming that this is "feature" of the device.
All the shots I took (indoors in artificial light) came out just fine and the quality, to my eyes, was good as far as camera's on mobile phones go.
I did not find the lack of a hardware camera button a problem. The fact is I actually preferred the on-screen shutter button; seemed pretty cool and effective.
The Keyboard:
I opened up MS Word and moved onto the dreaded keyboard.
Within a couple of seconds I could clearly see why some of you have given up on this device and sent it back. The keyboard out of the box is awful and stringing 2 words together was a real pain. However switch off the T9 function and the keyboard is transformed into something very very useful.
Yes, you have to be quite accurate with your fingers. I found I got the best results using my fingertips pointing near vertically downwards rather than horizontal and flat. The former method presents a narrow minimal area of the finger to the keyboard, resulting in reasonable/acceptable accuracy, while the latter method simply created problems, pulling in adjacent letters to the ones I wanted to use on nearly every occasion.
The key here is that, given I had no more than a half hour with the device, I found that I made no more mistakes with this keyboard, at no greater frequency, than I do now with my resistive keyboard on my TYTN, which I have had for over 3 years.
I did not get a chance to test the voice, email or sms functions as I did not have the time. Therefore I am unable to verify whether the problems others have mentioned were present in the device I tested or not.
Availability:
It is difficult to work out what the strategy is with the supply of this device. The 3 o2 shops I went into had only received 2 devices each! 2 out of the 3 shops had sold them on within a day and the 3rd, where I did my test, had 1 left.
None of the shops could confirm for certain when their next supplies would be in or how many handsets they would get. Each one suggested contacting them on a regular basis to see what the position is.
For me, given that this is a device in demand at probably the most advantageous marketing point in the year, i.e. the run up to Christmas, I cannot understand why there is so much uncertainty around the supply chain.
What Next?:
Now that I have finally laid my hands on the device, the key question I had to address was this; given all the horror stories on here about various problems, etc, was it sensible for me to become another early adopter given that this device will be used for business purposes where reliability is essential.
The decision I have made is, given the work currently being undertaken by C'monex and others coupled with custom roms already in the pipeline, plus the hints and tips thread in this forum, on balance I think it is just about worth the risk me jumping in and purchasing a device.
I was at this point 3 years ago when I first purchased my TyTN. To this day I consider it an absolute miracle that the device did not end its days under a hammer within the first week of ownership, so appallingly awful was that device straight out of the box.
Over time, and with a lot of people doing sterling work on here, things turned around to the point where I have a device that is rock solid stable, reliable and good to use.
I would strongly suggest that if anyone is considering buying this device, they find a live model to play with first before making their minds up. I can see why the keyboard could be a real deal breaker although I intend to purchase a capacitive stylus to get around some of the problems I foresee with non-finger friendly winmobile applications.
Conclusion:
This device looks very promising and yes, it does have issues, based on the reports we have seen here on XDA. You need to play with one first before making a decision to buy.
The keyboard is very different to a resistive one and requires patience, perseverance and good technique to get the best out of it.
I did not have enough time to have an exhaustive, comprehensive play with the device; however I have seen enough to determine that, on balance, and based on emerging developments here on XDA, I could live with it. Besides my current device is now long in the tooth and needs replacing.
The only fear I have is that once I have paid out my hard earned cash for this device, HTC bring out an Android HD2-like device using the snapdragon processor, which is really what I would prefer.
My order for a HD2 plus a HTC Hero goes in next week, depending on stock availability in the UK.
I hope this quick walk through is helpful to those who are trying to make a decision on this device, one way or another.
WB
Thanks WB for this excellent overview - certainly more down to earth and focused than most reviewers who don't know what to expect in HTC phones.
I too had a similar experience to your TYTN when I purchased my Polaris. Mine nearly took a high dive from the 30th floor of an office block when I got it. However in February this year, I installed epimazzo's KhanX ROM and didn't touch it again given how stable and usable everything was.
I've been watching the Leo forum closely for the past two weeks and I can see some of the top cookers hovering and waiting to pounce (oh, Hard SPL, wherefore art thou?). This device has so much potential and is so exciting that I purchased mine sight unseen.
The bugs and wrinkles are...ahem...par for the course if you buy a HTC phone these days. To my mind, there is nothing that appears insurmountable to the ROM chefs (respect). As I said, the phone has monstrous potential - seems like a solid GPS implementation plus the accelerometer, compass and proximity sensor. Bingo!
I had the option of going for any of the Samsung Omnia II, the Acer F1 and the Toshi phones. But none of those has the depth of support found here on xda (only iPhone comes close in community support). HTC owes many people on this forum in a big way - without it, probably you and I would have sh_tcanned HTC years ago...
And for someone who is always fiddling with my phone every day, the possibility of squeezing performance out of this thing is half the fun. May not suit those who need a perfect phone OOTB (like the iPhone for example).
He says confidently before he hits the SMS lag problem...
Update
Well, since I wrote the short review above and read XDA LEO forums end-to-end so my initial thoughts on jumping in and buying the device faded a little. Part of the problem was the sheer volume of negative noise coming from a number of people on these forums plus the fact that I have been here before with the Tytn, taking a year before I had a device I could both trust and like.
Those painful memories made me think long and hard about jumping in and doing the deed. What I needed to do was to get a sense of perspective and balance which was proving difficult to find on XDA. Also being able to lay hands on a device at will to play with was proving very difficult as the limited stocks becoming available were flying off the shelves as fast as they were coming in. This was at odds with all the negativity I was picking up here.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not knocking people. Those that were brave enough to post their honest views about the device, albeit negative ones, did me a huge favour, despite the fact that most of them faced massive hostility from the masses. What this meant for me was that instead of going into any decision rosy eyed I knew that if I bought into the HD2 world there would be problems to overcome, over and above the usual tweaks that one does because its windows, don't you know?!
Some sense of balance was found via the following polls, which I found to be invaluable:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=598900&highlight=polls (severity of grid display)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=595655&highlight=poll (weird touch-screen behaviour)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=591011&highlight=poll (earpiece and voice quality)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2075 (HD2 speaker quality)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=592375&highlight=poll (in search of balance).
So, approaching the festive season with the family nagging me to tell them what I wanted for Xmas, I rang a supplier, talked through all the known issues with them, which they were aware of. However the rate of returns on HD2's to them was so small as to be infinitesimal which meant one of 2 things:
- People were buying the device and either liking it or could live with it or
- The supplier wasn't telling me the truth (highly unlikely as I have been using them for a while now).
They were happy enough to agree to take the device back and return my funds if I did not like it either under the 7 day distance selling rules in the UK or by me ringing them up and indicating my preference.
Went back to the family, gave them the news and......a brand new HD2 landed in my sack on Xmas day via Santa Claus. What an amazing guy he is! Someone should offer to have his children for him.
Broke the box open last night, ie Xmas night and despite my anticipation, took time out to charge it up properly. Time spent now conditioning the battery correctly equals solid battery performance later down the line.
Tackled the beast in anger today. It is true to say that in the metal, this is a beautiful piece of engineering. Build quality on my version at least is excellent with none of the wobbly keys and ill fitting screen problems reported by others being noticable.
Went through setting up the device as I want it (yes, its been a long day and I have stopped now), made a complete backup immediately as my master backup, then installed tips no 8, 44, 46, 58 from the hints and tips thread and made another backup, separate from the original. This way if anything goes wrong I can simply roll back to the last successful change.
Points Worth Commenting On:
Keyboard:
The keyboard needs a degree of accuracy to use it successfully. I did not find the sensitivity out of the box an issue at all. Where I had to be absolutely accurate was in keying in my sim unlock code into the phone. Got that wrong too many times but practice will make perfect.
An even greater level of accuracy is required when trying to put ticks into selection boxes, e.g when installing Memmaid. This can prove frustrating as can the process of copying and pasting. I am sure that the capacitive stylus coming out of HTC will help with this "problem".
For me the keyboard works best without T9 switched on. However for sheer speed the Swype keyboard which I have installed is the way to go. Another version of this board (SlideIt) is readily available and I will be moving to that asap as Swype is NOT free-ware nor, as I have just found out, not officially released yet for the windows platform.
Weather Animations:
The weather animations are very good, just the sort of thing a chap needs to gain bragging rights down at the local pub. I have already seen most of the animations today due to the readily changing weather conditions we have had where we live.
Back Cover:
There is a serious but amusing thread on here where someone could not get their back cover off. Having already been through that thread I was not looking forward to my experience. However I can report that as long as you follow the instructions in the guide the cover is pretty easy to take off and put back on.
Overall First Impressions:
There is a hell of a lot to like about the HD2. There are things that I felt needed to change to suit me better. I have altered SMS to show in traditional mode rather than conversation mode as this works best for me.
Twitter and Facebook are of no use to me so these have not been configured.
I have yet to work out how to get the built-in picture viewer to pick up and show my pictures on the external SD card and there are a whole host of other things I have yet to get done. However day 1 has gone very very well indeed.
I will add to this post as I get to know the device a little better. In the meantime I am off to read the full manual to pick up on what else I need to know.
WB
PS: For those interested I am running Rom 1.48 straight out of the box. Not bothered with the SMS fix as I have not had any issues with SMS sending and receiving so far.
I am being meticulous about killing off apps not required but running in the background via the task manager. Also been straight onto the notification queue lock-up problem by installing Memmaid to sort that out.
Need to find a way of making sure that the X button really does kill off these open apps to save valuable memory space.
PPS: Really annoying niggle is after 10 goes I have not been able to put on the HTC screen protector properly. No matter how hard I try, even using a large cardboard piece to smooth it out, I can't get all the air bubbles out. I really want to use the protector but as it stands, I might have to take the risk and ditch it unless someone can pass on a full-proof method for putting the damned thing on properly.
I have never ever had this problem before in all the years I have had of devices that needed their screens protecting.
More updates soon.
WB
Regarding keyboard I recommend to use Swype or Finger Keyboard.
its a support forum 99% of posts here will be problems
wacky.banana said:
The only fear I have is that once I have paid out my hard earned cash for this device, HTC bring out an Android HD2-like device using the snapdragon processor, which is really what I would prefer.
My order for a HD2 plus a HTC Hero goes in next week, depending on stock availability in the UK.
I hope this quick walk through is helpful to those who are trying to make a decision on this device, one way or another.
WB
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Honestly I'd recommend waiting for the Xperia X10 if you want an android device. The HD2 in its current state is not something I'd want to use for everyday business use; it has still got some minor problems that needs addressing.
Toss3 said:
Honestly I'd recommend waiting for the Xperia X10 if you want an android device. The HD2 in its current state is not something I'd want to use for everyday business use; it has still got some minor problems that needs addressing.
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have they sorted the speed of the x10 out yet, last videos i saw it was terrible
sharpey said:
have they sorted the speed of the x10 out yet, last videos i saw it was terrible
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It's still in its beta stages so the software is bound to get faster once they've sorted out the minor bugs. I really doubt Sony would release it in its current state, but considering HTC released a device without proper texting support and awful call quality I can't say I'd be surprised.
Next year HTC brings out the HTC Bravo, it's an Android Phone (V. 2.0) with the snapdragon 1GHz and total similar to the HD2 instead of the 3,7" AMOLED (more than 16 mio colors) display .
I think it's the same as the hd2 just the android version of it
regards
HTC BRAVO: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/08/htc-bravo-pictured-more-lucidly/
sharpey said:
its a support forum 99% of posts here will be problems
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@ sharpey,
Hey fella, merry Xmas to you. If you have been on here as long as I have you would know that XDA is not a support forum but a Developers forum, hence the name XDA-Developers. The conversation and posts used to be about cooked roms, hacking, development of tools and utilities, etc and pushing the technical envelope, NOT coping with people who won't or can't RTFM (read the manual).
It's only in recent times that new users have attempted to change the format and shape of the forum and it has now become, in part, a support forum because people like me like to help other people. Only problem is the noise generated by this process tends to obscure the real nuggets of good information one is looking for before investing in a device like this, e.g, SPL availability and associated development, availability of cooked roms, flexibility of the device from a hacking perspective, and so on. This is what I meant when I said I was looking for a balanced view on here but found it difficult to find what I was looking for although the polls I have linked to also provided useful info.
@ all others,
This thread is just a running update of the journey I went through until I got a HD2. I know there are a lot of people out there who are holding back on buying one as they are confused by how much information/misinformation there is out there on the HD2. All I am doing is sharing my experience in the hope that it helps someone.
Right now the device is 2 days old and I am Just loving it. :. Yes, there are some minor annoyances like the lack of a sent indicator when sms messages are sent; however I trust the device and if I want to be sure I simply look in my sent box to confirm the message is gone.
If you are considering buying a HD2, read this thread plus all the links, read the independent 3rd party reviews then go play with one in the metal, and, if you are happy, go buy one and ENJOY!!
WB
Caveats. I love my nexus one, and have never owned any form of Apple product.
I am more or less trying to see what other people's opinions are regarding the evolution of cellphones.
In my opinion these are more or less the large evolutions.
Skipping the Bag phone, and Night at the roxx bury model
1) Nokia - Who didn't have that wonderful brick!
2) Razr - Never had one, but certainly made size crucial -
3) Blackberry - They discovered there was money in smart phones.
4) Iphone - Will stay unbiased, they certainly moved the smartphone concept.
Where would I put the nexus one? I would say it's the pinnacle of #4. Personally, i think we are stuck in #4 for awhile, and much like computer's dont need to be upgraded as say 5 years ago, phones may be there as well(for now).
I highly doubt the next Iphone makes any huge leaps. The front camera may evolutionize phone sex, but that's about it.
How do we get to #5? In my opinion, this will be stuck on the borrrrrring battery technology. What does everyone else see?
Nexus One is 4.5. It shares many features of the iPhone and adds on top iof it with the concept of developer freedom, which I beleive is crucial for moving smartphone software forward.
Just to clarify. I definitely think the Nexus one is a massive improvement, and 4.5 is certainly accurate. You could be right in that we may never see a 5 by my metrics. Or not a clean jump at least. Continual small improvement could be the ongoing future.
Eitherway, I feel good that I wont be itching to "upgrade" this time next year(which says alot for the Nexus One)
Much as the MP3 player is being obsolesced by cell phones, I think "phones" in the traditional sense will eventually be obsolesced by the all-around computer that smartphones are becoming.
but its still called a smartphone lol
I don't think the Nexus One itself is that great of an evolution, it's just another Android phone.
I'd say the platform itself is much more important.
I love my Nexus One, it's far and away the most advanced phone I've ever owned, however it's not without faults, and ultimately it's just a high end Android handset, just like the Motorola Droid/Milestone.
As for the next "big" step/evolution, I don't know if there will be anything "big" per say. As has been touched on in this thread, smartphones as we know them are metamorphosing into mobile computers, so I don't really see the scope for anything more than incremental increases in processing power and operating systems.
video calls will be a big step... however the networks will have to mature before something as data intenisve as that steps up to the plate
another thing i think would be interesting as far as the future goes is developing a phone that truely functions as a portable computer where i can ditch my desktop (granted not my gaming pc) but hook the phone up to a dock of some sort which will give me access to a monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers, ect... the phone sort of goes into "pc mode" and functions as a regular computer
Video calls will be a big step?
Video calling was big advertised years ago.
And now, almost nobody really uses it.
K69 said:
Video calls will be a big step?
Video calling was big advertised years ago.
And now, almost nobody really uses it.
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when? i dont remember anything...
my thing is phones dont have a camera on the side that the screen is on... therefore its really not possible... not to mention its incredibly data intensive side so i really doubt what you are talking about is true... I would love to be able to video chat on my phone in a quality manner
sadly though, batteries are going to hinder mobile progress, li-ion batteries are nice but lets face it, its not very hard to run your nexus dry in about 5 hours if you wanted to... battery technology itself is getting old and some other source of power really needs to emerge to really stir the mobile market up
JHaste said:
when? i dont remember anything...
my thing is phones dont have a camera on the side that the screen is on... therefore its really not possible... not to mention its incredibly data intensive side so i really doubt what you are talking about is true... I would love to be able to video chat on my phone in a quality manner
sadly though, batteries are going to hinder mobile progress, li-ion batteries are nice but lets face it, its not very hard to run your nexus dry in about 5 hours if you wanted to... battery technology itself is getting old and some other source of power really needs to emerge to really stir the mobile market up
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Look at many phones in Asia, they've had video calling for years now. The US is just far behind when it comes to certain technologies. Japan has had international 3G video calling since August 2005 (3G was invented in Japan). And has been running a 3G network since late 2001.
Video calling is way old.
As for the battery issue, nuclear batteries are the answer: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/10/07/tiny-nuclear-battery.html
Video calls are not going to b next. We had those since 2004 in europe and nobody really uses them. They are expensive and a good old phone call gets the job done anyway. I concur with batteries and increemental steps in OSs and computing power, allghough nuclear batteries are still far to come. (Too bad, i had my proton pack almost ready...). This said the N1 is probably the best phone i had ever. Nothing it cannot do. Nothing I have to think"it's just a phone" for. I just love it
SPAS79 said:
Video calls are not going to b next. We had those since 2004 in europe and nobody really uses them. They are expensive and a good old phone call gets the job done anyway. I concur with batteries and increemental steps in OSs and computing power, allghough nuclear batteries are still far to come. (Too bad, i had my proton pack almost ready...). This said the N1 is probably the best phone i had ever. Nothing it cannot do. Nothing I have to think"it's just a phone" for. I just love it
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I can't see video calls on mobile phones becoming practical. The whole point of making phones calls on a mobile phone is because its MOBILE! For a video call, you have to be looking at the screen. This presents a few issues: First off, walking down the street while talking and looking at the screen is not a good idea for obvious reasons. Second, both the earpiece and microphone will be far away from you, forcing you to use either the speaker and yell into the phone, destroying any concept of privacy, or wearing a headset every time you want to talk on the phone. Having a wired headset will be a bit uncomfortable becasue the phone will be in your hand at a good length from your face, leaving the most ideal option to be a bluetooth headset.
There is also the problem of battery life. Talking on the phone AND streaming a video feed will no doubt put a lot of strain on the battery, especially if the video stream must be high quality and play back smoothly. In addition, bluetooth may be used for your wireless headset. Current batteries in smartphones will be able to pull this off for ~3 hours MAX, not including battery drain while on standby, and not taking into account how good your signal is (the lower the signal the more drain on the battery).
Austria was one of the first countries where video calling was available (may 2003).
Many phones with front cams where sold and in the first months you even could video call for free.
Now almost seven years later nobody talks about it.
Found an article on Sparkfun's website today, thought it would be worth a look for you Nexus One guys. Did a search on the site, didn't see anything about it, so here you go.
I can't post links yet, so bare with me plz...
Sparkfun said:
Here at SparkFun, we have never shied away from launching our products up into the sky. From homemade rockets, to pumpkins, to high-altitude balloons, we genuinely enjoy seeing electronics we have spent hours working on flying through the air.
So naturally, when we saw this project about someone else launching some of our parts in a rocket, we had to share. This is an awesome project called the PhoneSat Rocket.
This suborbital rocket was launched out in the Nevada desert and is based around an Arduino Main Board and a couple of Nexus One cellphones. Check out the above video for a documentary of the whole launch!
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Small documentary of the launches:
Flight video from the second Nexus One launch:
Wired Magazine Article on them:
Wired Magazine said:
Cheaper, Better Satellites Made From Cellphones and Toys
* By Jess McNally Email Author
* July 30, 2010 |
* 3:20 pm |
* Categories: Space, Tech
*
MOUNTAIN VIEW, California — Instead of investing in their own computer research and development, engineers at the NASA Ames Research Center are looking to cellphones and off-the-shelf toys to power the future of low-cost satellite technology.
The smartphone in your pocket has about 120 times more computing power than the average satellite, which has the equivalent of a 1984-era computer inside.
“You can go to Walmart and buy toys that work better than satellites did 20 years ago,” said NASA physicist Chris Boshuizen. “And your cellphone is really a $500 robot in your pocket that can’t get around. A lot of the real innovation now happens in entertainment and cellphone technology, and NASA should be going forward with their stuff.”
The biggest challenge of sending cellphones and toys into space is whether the parts can get up there without shaking apart and work in a vacuum at extreme high and low temperatures.
To do some preliminary testing, two Nexus One cellphones caught rides on two rockets on July 24 that launched 30,000 feet into the atmosphere at a maximum speed of mach 2.4 (about 1,800 miles per hour). One of the rockets crashed into the ground after its parachute failed, but the other made it back with the cellphone unscathed.
Both cellphones were able to record the acceleration of the rocket using their built-in accelerometers, and the undamaged phone captured 2.5 hours of video of the event through a hole in the side of the rocket.
“Everything that didn’t break is a piece of data,” said volunteer engineer Ben Howard. “We know that the batteries didn’t break and that the computer worked the whole time.”
If the cellphones ultimately get used to power satellites, they will probably be sent up without a screen and with a different battery to make them lighter. The screen and battery make up 90 percent of the Nexus One’s weight.
Next, the team will build a stabilizing mechanism for the satellite using the cellphone, $100 toy gyroscopes and parts similar to those of the Mindstorms Lego, so the satellite can orient itself in space. By installing three spinning gyroscopes and getting them to spin at different velocities, a satellite can move in any direction. The same technique is currently used on many satellites, but requires multimillion dollar technology.
The project will likely use CubeSat’s as a standardized carrying case for their cellphone-powered satellites, because the boxes have already been tested and are known to hold up in the journey. Often companies who are sending up satellites on rockets have extra space on their rockets, which is how most amateur satellites will likely get into space, and the people paying like to be sure that nothing will break and damage the rocket on the way up.
The whole goal of the project is to make satellites cheap and affordable, so that anyone with bit of time and a couple of thousand dollars can send their own satellite into space.
Upgrading the computing power of satellites using cellphones would mean increased satellite capabilities, possibly including artificial intelligence.
“We’re not sure yet exactly what people will want to do with their satellites, and that’s the point,” said NASA education specialist Matt Reyes. “What can you imagine doing with your phone in space?”
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Last but not least, a mission statement of sorts:
Hopefully some of you guys are into this sort of thing as I am. It's REALLY awesome how far we as a people have come if you sit down and think about it.
Great stuff for the high tech Nexus...reach for the stars
Cool. It really makes sense for CubeSats. The Space Shuttle only has one megabyte of RAM, but that's because it doesn't need any more and the processes are meticulously coded. The basic CubeSat is a four inch box. One of the goals is to make them usable by the general public, like school teachers, to send experiments to space, and they aren't going to have a team of engineers to write software for them. Cell phones are really the only off-the-shelf processor available.
Yeah it's a neat deal for sure. Being able to consolidate a lot of systems that cost millions into a pocket sized cell phone is huge.
Sent from my HTC EVO
I have been somewhat following the whole Phonebloks and ARA scene, participating in the Dscout missions, and generally have to say that there is a lot of buzz and hype with very little meat behind it. The general populace is thinking legos, colors, fancy shmancy materials, and other appearance related nonsense. There seems to be very little technical content, and the majority of the crowd seems to be lured by key words such as "eco", "reusable", "repairable", "customizable" and so on.
Certainly, in terms of driving sales, this is good attention, something Motorola needs.
The downside, however, seems to be that people do not understand how things work, have no patience for it, and want things to "just work."
I highly doubt that this will be something that is user friendly out of the box.
The biggest misconception seems to be that you will be able to build anything you want out of this. If this idea is not curbed, this project will fail. People will become disappointed. Already they seem to think that they can have an espresso maker and a telescope added to the thing.
On top of it all, Motorola has a track record of taking good ideas and executing them poorly. Think Atrix lapdock.
So what is the clear mission of this project?
Ease of repair? That can already be done using current production methods. Look at the iPhone vs Galaxy series in terms of screen replacement. Its night and day.
Reusing parts? What could you reuse from an iPhone 4 when building a 5s? The headphone jack? Batteries die, radios, memory, sensors, processors, become old news by the time they hit the assembly line, and screens evolve at a fast pace.
There is no mention of a core device with expansion bays, the project seems to suggest you could swap all basic components on the fly. This is nonsense. Is it really worth taking steps back to make separate little bricks for Bluetooth, Wifi, NFC, GSM radio, etc., when current production methods can squeeze these into a single system-on-chip design at a fraction of the cost?
Imagine for a minute if Googorola took the Moto X approach to hardware: You log into your Motomaker account, and at checkout you pick your options. 3 choices of screen size, 3 choices of processors, 3 choices of storage capacity, an 8, 13, or 16 Mpix camera, 3 different battery capacities, cdma, gsm, or global radio, etc., then once you select your hardware, you customize the case colors, and you're done.
I know this rant is way into the TL;DR territory, but there are other factors to consider, perhaps profitability being paramount. Open source phone, with open source modules, etc. How will Motorola make $ on this? How long till knock off modules hit the market? What is the pricing scheme, etc.
I would love to get a serious discussion going, touching on some of the things I brought up.
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I wouldn't say they're doomed from the start but their social network app and stuff seems pretty gimmicky to me. I definitely think that modular phones are in the future but they need to spend more time talking about the actual hardware and open sourcing drivers and stuff instead of their weird Instagram clone in my opinion. I'm still staying optimistic if they don't do it someone else will.
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Nice idea, but people here at xda would have a nightmare with such a thing, meaning rom development for every and each component combination.......
Lets ask ourselves, when would it be appropriate or papamount to upgrade a hardware component of any of our phones now? The reasoning now is more like, 'it would be cool if we could'. I cant think of any necessary reason now for needing to change harware unless it needs repair. I believe necessity should be a starting point for this whole concept. Necessity often drives truly good design.
I personally think that this would be good because of the fact that technology advances at such a rapid pace that being able to upgrade your components when a better version comes out would be good. Obviously there would be some compatibility issues between some parts that would be unavoidable. It would be more for the person who wants the high end device. Take me for example, I have the S4 and I love it but next year when the S5 comes out it wouldn't be the latest and greatest and I can't upgrade for two years. I could love a Moto X but I don't wanna pay the off contract price for it. So I think this is the only time it would be good and efficient, not a huge game changer but a slight game changer.
Also about the knock off or cheap parts, if they have the drivers and protocols open source than it shouldn't be to big of an issue, not anymore than buying a knock off replacement screen. Still something to look out for when buying modules.
I think that the idea from Phoneblocks or Ara are really good but I think that the project will prospere
Project Ara.
Being a modular design, brings complications, but with those complications comes new opportunities in the hardware section as well as the software side of the development.
The metric is quite valid and tangible, even more so today, wth the manufacturing techniques available, this idea actually makes far more sense than feeding the giant a steady diet of the same old thing.
You save money if all you require is a modified version of the RF section, you install that block.
The same goes for the remainder of the phone, easy upgrading, no downtime, and lower overall cost for the entire market, not to mention the lowering of landfill garbage from dumped devices that could not be upgraded.
The engineering end of this is wonderful, I wish it arrived years ago. A 'Lego-Phone' you build and upgrade as you need to, no more buying an aircraft carrier, when all you require is a shuttle.
We can finally drive the market, provide for ourselves, push manufacturers in the direction we need them to head, instead of driving us with their own thoughts on what is necessary.
I don't use much in the way of media, so anything more than 720P is of little use, but I do appreciate an HDMI-type format screen.
The RF section is far more important to my needs, and of course, a micro-SD card slot.
I prefer a sensitive front end, high dynamic range, and a superbly augmented IP3(third intercept point) as a basis for my receiver design.
I have grown tired of matchbox quality RF systems, and when in poor signal areas, or in a heavily wooded area with sparse cell tower penetration, i prefer my phone have the ability to connect with a site even if the RSSI indicates no signal, at least a data channel should be able to 'hear' a short text message for help if sent.
If the phone can't hear well, it can't talk well, either.
Most subscribers assume that cell signals are routed through the power lines*!*
I have had customers that actually said this...But this is the basis of my most desired and important 'want', a solid RF system, receiver and transmitter section that works!
High density areas have few problems with dropped calls, if the site loading is low, but in rural areas, loading is not an issue, it's accessibility, and sites spaced 10 miles apart, can actually have users drop calls even near by, due to dense foliage or hilly/mountainous terrain, even though the tower is within eyesight, you still drop a call. This is where fresnel zones come into play, and where a good RF section makes the difference.
If you think rain kills RF signals, see my pic I just snapped from my door, of the trees filled with heavy snow!
Poorly designed RF systems can't decode signals properly, the B.E.R suffers, causing message failures, call time-outs as well as just lousy QOS due to noise, echoing, raspy speech processing and a host of other problems.
The memory subsystems are important, as well as the GPU and video systems, but you can still make a call if the video drops, not so much if the RF section dies.
We all have our own desires, as well as what is most important to our needs, but overall, i do believe that project Ara is a great step in the right direction for a change....Where the customer drive the market, not the manufacturers!
Now I don't know if you were aware, but Google only owns Motorola's Research Lab. The actual company was purchased by Lenovo a few weeks ago.
Besides, I sort feel the same way, because, besides the hubbub, it doesn't seem like a very user friendly process in my mind. That's why I think it feels like nothing more than a research project with a couple of news reporters locked inside their facilities.
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Don't forget to hit thanks if I helped!
In the beginning, they will have to offer options in a controlled environment like one poster abive said. It will be similar to
1. CHOOSE YOUR PROCESSOR:
a. Good
b. Better
c. Best
Etc etc....
The first question probably will be "Choose Your Carrier". Then all of the module choices will be pre-screened to function together on that network.
Samsung Galaxy S4 "Fort Knox Edition"
Guys, believe in Google. They made a search engine wich is now the most used engine. They also made a very good browser, an operating system for mobiles, an online map wich has street view and many other good things. Why they couldn't make project ara?
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PenguinStyle said:
Guys, believe in Google. They made a search engine wich is now the most used engine. They also made a very good browser, an operating system for mobiles, an online map wich has street view and many other good things. Why they couldn't make project ara?
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Just making sure it wasnt a misinterpretation but google did not create android, Android Inc founded by andy rubin(correct me if im wrong) http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...e-phones/a-complete-history-of-android-470327
PenguinStyle said:
Guys, believe in Google. They made a search engine wich is now the most used engine. They also made a very good browser, an operating system for mobiles, an online map wich has street view and many other good things. Why they couldn't make project ara?
Sent from my LG-P880 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
All those things you mention are software, that runs on high performance computers. What ARA requires is a total rethinking of the hardware and engineering of today's mobile phones.
Can any module be swapped for some other type of module? How do they interface? What bandwidth limitations do these interfaces introduce?
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SynGates said:
All those things you mention are software, that runs on high performance computers. What ARA requires is a total rethinking of the hardware and engineering of today's mobile phones.
Can any module be swapped for some other type of module? How do they interface? What bandwidth limitations do these interfaces introduce?
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Click to collapse
The ARA developers conference already answered most of this, so its possibility is not the question. Its availability and adaptability is the question. Will people flock to it or despise it?? Will it make people feel more in control?
If google can advertise this thing as something that gives people more power it will definitely catch on. Plus if Google is truly looking to start their own mobile network as rumoured, then they could start in that manner and make others envious to catch on.
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It's going to be a wait and see what happens on release thing I think. I don't personally don't think it's going to explode instantly onto the mobile scene but give it a year or two and hopefully it will start changing the game. With everything being open source it might pave the way for smaller companies to get into the handheld scene where they don't have the money or resources to develop full devices but can focus on just a single module. Much like the way of the custom pc market.
replicamask said:
It's going to be a wait and see what happens on release thing I think. I don't personally don't think it's going to explode instantly onto the mobile scene but give it a year or two and hopefully it will start changing the game. With everything being open source it might pave the way for smaller companies to get into the handheld scene where they don't have the money or resources to develop full devices but can focus on just a single module. Much like the way of the custom pc market.
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My sentiments exactly.
Koreans will really fight against this project. They won't be willing to loose the cellular market to Google. ARA has a lot of potential in developing countries, provided the prices for modules will be adequate. But yes, even with adequate pricetag such innovation will require a drastic change in marketing-infected minds of people.
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I hope it could work really well. I'd like to see the ability to transfer all the core modules from one endo 'frame' to another - SIM, WiFi, ROM, storage plus camera and perhaps CPU/RAM from a larger 'everyday' frame to a smaller 'night out' frame. I'd like an 'everyday' camera and a 'holiday' camera. I might carry a speaker module, but would swap it in against a torch module only for those occasions I'd need it. I'd carry spare battery modules and expect to see external chargers for them.
Didn't read the whole thread, but I'd say the whole "eco friendly" concept is BS from the beginning. People will start buying new components everytime they are out, thus generating MORE electric waste.
till22 said:
Didn't read the whole thread, but I'd say the whole "eco friendly" concept is BS from the beginning. People will start buying new components everytime they are out, thus generating MORE electric waste.
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This is possible and a good point. I think they could counter this by placing some inherent value on modules so you could trade them in for cash or credit towards other modules.
I think this will work much better than trading in phones since all modules should work for all ara phones.
What you all need to remember is that the microcomputer revolution didn't really become a mass market phenomenon until the IBM PC arrived with its open "Industry Standard Architecture". This allowed the rapid emergence of third party expansion cards and other "PC compatible" hardware, and "PC clones". Not only did this accelerate the pace of technology development it also pushed prices down significantly. If IBM had not made the PC architecture both expandable and open, general purpose computing would have remained an expensive and specialised tool available only to business and the very rich. Imagine the effect that wouls have had on the development of the worldwide web a decade later.
If you are of the generation who grew up uaing laptops you may not have realised that modular technology is cheaper and more flexible, and it means longer hardware lifecycles.
Hi,
I am sorry if this is the wrong forum, I don't know enough to put it else where. I have a GMC full sized van. My DIN opening is actually larger than 7", I could fit an 8" screen in there if I wanted. I also have other options and tons of room. I could cut the dash, go as big as 15, or even 19". I could have a console where a large screen lifts up with some servo or mechanical assembly. Or just simply a flip.
I bought a Hui Fie (sp?) head unit that matches the van. I like it, the colors match perfect, it's the higher res, with a quad core. However there are few things I'd like to improve. I could almost lose the buttons and relocate key ones, like the "home", "return", "navi" etc for a larger screen. Also, I find the buttons feel rather cheap compared to even the GM ones. And the GM ones are nothing high end, but they feel right.
Is it feasible to build a carputer and run android in it? SW controls possible? Are the keys I mention above possible? Canbus? Or would there be another route available by using the head unit I have and attaching to it to a larger screen? One thing I wish these units had was hdmi in and out, and an RJ45 connector for hardwiring a network.
I have a lot of projects on the go, money I should be spending elsewhere, and time that just doesn't... seem to leave me with the right energy and mindset, but I'd like to know if these things are possible. Of course with money and time, but for an average or a bit over average determined person, can they set all this up hardware wise? Is there other directions to find these means? I could literally do anything, it's just time and resources of learning to code new languages and source parts, etc. that limit me. If we were all rich and retired, many of us could do amazing things.
For me, it's a distraction, a hobby and a way to improve my work life. As long as I get the project done. That's the other downfall, you start on a path of perpetual upgrades that never end. But it's enjoyable.
Some head units (the NU3001 for example) are nothing more than an android box attached to a double din screen and buttons. If you can find a monitor that will fit you can pretty much plug in the android box anywhere.
Hi,
Well, I kind of figured that much. I guess you're the only person I've communicated with that confirmed it. However, how would you manage hooking up a larger LCD? You'll most likely have a ribbon cable to connect and you will be limited to the same resolution right? Some of my ideas envision the box much further from the LCD screen. So even if the ribbon cable and drivers work with the larger LCD, it's a physical problem.
The buttons, I don't think they'd be too difficult. You could either solder a tacky solution with wires to extend the location, or you could use SW controls to a button layout with the same resistance values. Seems simple enough. I'd like to know if a car computer is possible in any highly simple way. I can't deal too much with software and drivers right now, too involved for my head with all the other things. But it would be nice to drop in add ons, have an rj45 connector, hdmi in and out.
Maybe my plans are too excessive. Actually, I know they are as of Friday, some priorities have changed and need to reduce things for the time being. This is just an exercise for thought and a potential path in the future.
I do like that radio. I actually wished I bought it after using mine for a little while. Same specs I believe, but the layout actually suited my desires better. Knobs are good, for the size of mine, I'd rather either have one larger, or none. The home and return are necessities to me now.
dberladyn said:
Is it feasible to build a carputer and run android in it? SW controls possible? Are the keys I mention above possible? Canbus? Or would there be another route available by using the head unit I have and attaching to it to a larger screen? One thing I wish these units had was hdmi in and out, and an RJ45 connector for hardwiring a network.
I have a lot of projects on the go, money I should be spending elsewhere, and time that just doesn't... seem to leave me with the right energy and mindset, but I'd like to know if these things are possible. Of course with money and time, but for an average or a bit over average determined person, can they set all this up hardware wise? Is there other directions to find these means? I could literally do anything, it's just time and resources of learning to code new languages and source parts, etc. that limit me. If we were all rich and retired, many of us could do amazing things.
For me, it's a distraction, a hobby and a way to improve my work life. As long as I get the project done. That's the other downfall, you start on a path of perpetual upgrades that never end. But it's enjoyable.
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With limited time available, I think the answer is no.
Maybe within 1-2 years, with more "community experience" and threads etc., it may be more feasible for people with limited time.
I think the closest you can get right now is to install an Android tablet. This won't, in and of itself, provide hardware buttons, nor other things you desire.
All you want is technically possible of course (with lots of time/work), and I'm sure several home-built Android HU projects that go beyond installing a tablet will arise over the next few years.
For anyone who disagrees, note that OP does not have time to "mess around". If you still disagree, point me to a project thread or blog etc. where somebody has already done all that OP asks about and which won't require too much time to duplicate. Lets say,... 16 hours maximum.