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I guess this is kind of a question for the XDA community at large, since you are considered the "rooting gods" by us mere mortals. That being said... I've had enough experience over the years and I've rooted both WinMo and Android phones, including my Hero (running ic3 right now). What bothers me is the push by some people (on other forums, like the Sprint fan page on Facebook) for anyone and everyone to root their phone because "it's like jailbreaking an iPhone" (which is nonsense, since most people jailbreak iPhones to install apps that Apple refuses to put in the App Store) or "because the carriers don't want you to have access to all your phone's features" (more nonsense). Anyone technical enough knows that rooting is like giving someone permanent root access on a Linux or UNIX system, with the risk of doing serious damage if you don't know what you're doing. So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?
mjb5406 said:
I guess this is kind of a question for the XDA community at large, since you are considered the "rooting gods" by us mere mortals. That being said... I've had enough experience over the years and I've rooted both WinMo and Android phones, including my Hero (running ic3 right now). What bothers me is the push by some people (on other forums, like the Sprint fan page on Facebook) for anyone and everyone to root their phone because "it's like jailbreaking an iPhone" (which is nonsense, since most people jailbreak iPhones to install apps that Apple refuses to put in the App Store) or "because the carriers don't want you to have access to all your phone's features" (more nonsense). Anyone technical enough knows that rooting is like giving someone permanent root access on a Linux or UNIX system, with the risk of doing serious damage if you don't know what you're doing. So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?
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Click to collapse
I think only people who are comfortable rooting should root.
The warranty is null and void if you root the phone.
mjb5406 said:
So, looking for an opinion here, is it wise for "Joe (or Jill) Average User" to attempt to root their phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it wise? That depends on the user deciding if he/she should root. Should they be given the same opportunity as someone that's more tech savvy than the average user? Sure, why not. Android encourages users to fully customize there devices, if that means getting one's hand dirty to get the most of your phone, then give it go. However, if the end user is afraid about "bricking" or "voiding" there warranty; then it's probably best they stick with the factory defaults.
At the end of the day; it's the user's choice. Rooting of course allows one to get the maximum potential out of the phone, non-rooting allows for a decent experience. However, it's quite obvious that once someone see's the many wonderful things that comes with rooting; they too are often enticed and decide to take the plunge. Which, ultimately is a good thing; they're able to join a community like XDA, learn new things about there device and about computers/hacking that they thought they never could, and of course, they now get to enjoy the benefits of rooting.
mjb5406 said:
And, as a second question, once rooted, it's always been my assumption that warranties are voided, you lose Total Equipment Protection, etc., but some (supposedly smart and informed people) say that they are not. Opinions again, please?
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Click to collapse
The thing is, even Sprint employees root there phones, so at the end of the day, its comes down to the sales/tech person at your local Sprint store. People on here have said that if your phone is broken and you take it in to get it serviced without flashing the Sprint RUU that Sprint will say you've voided your warranty because they can't work with the "modified" phone (e.g. rooted, etc).
However, this is relative from person to person and from store to store. Like I said, pending on the Sprint rep/tech -- they can choose to service your "modified" phone or tell you that you've voided your warranty and that they won't help you. Of course; to remedy this, you just need to go home; flash the latest Sprint RUU and go back to the store -- then they can't complain.
So, if you're worried about voiding your warrenty or that Sprint will freak out, flash the latest RUU before going into your local Sprint store... if you have a good rapport with your Sprint reps/techs, it shouldn't matter if you're phones rooted or not though.
You cannot compare the iphone to the android on a operating system level because android is free under the GPL and by "rooting" the operating system only means that you enabled an option that was otherwise disabled by the source for the end users protection, not because its in any violation of laws like the Iphone.
Rooting the device only opens opportunities for more options on a less limited field rather than being on a more limited field with little options. The iphone is basically like a "Nascar Vehichle" its tagged and ridiculed with many logos and flare, It's commercialized in such a way that not only does jail braking and unlocking violate the companies terms of use but other companies that own the hardware inside the device. My speculation on the sprint fan club is this...
There are three people in the tech field. People who use their equipment,p eople who play with it and people who do both. I do both.. which one are you?
Powers16 said:
You cannot compare the iphone to the android on a operating system level because android is free under the GPL and by "rooting" the operating system only means that you enabled an option that was otherwise disabled by the source for the end users protection, not because its in any violation of laws like the Iphone.
Rooting the device only opens opportunities for more options on a less limited field rather than being on a more limited field with little options. The iphone is basically like a "Nascar Vehichle" its tagged and ridiculed with many logos and flare, It's commercialized in such a way that not only does jail braking and unlocking violate the companies terms of use but other companies that own the hardware inside the device. My speculation on the sprint fan club is this...
There are three people in the tech field. People who use their equipment,p eople who play with it and people who do both. I do both.. which one are you?
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Click to collapse
No question... I do both. But, then again, I've been doing this for years. My issue is that it seems like there are two groups of "rooters": Those that do it and understand what they are doing and the risks that are involved and those that do it, tell other people to do it, and really don't understand the ramifications other than to say it's "cool". There has even been a request for someone to post rooting FAQ on the official Sprint page on Facebook (which is very stupid) and lots of talk about people want to root because they want "free tethering" (also very stupid); to talk about this on a Sprint-monitored forum is not a good idea, IMHO, and to tell people to root their phones when all they get is "What's rooting?" as a reply tells me that those people should probably be content just using their phones and, if they run into problems, go to Sprint for assistance. It's usually easy to tell who has a more technical understanding of the phone just by the content of their posts.
mjb5406 said:
No question... I do both. But, then again, I've been doing this for years. My issue is that it seems like there are two groups of "rooters": Those that do it and understand what they are doing and the risks that are involved and those that do it, tell other people to do it, and really don't understand the ramifications other than to say it's "cool". There has even been a request for someone to post rooting FAQ on the official Sprint page on Facebook (which is very stupid) and lots of talk about people want to root because they want "free tethering" (also very stupid); to talk about this on a Sprint-monitored forum is not a good idea, IMHO, and to tell people to root their phones when all they get is "What's rooting?" as a reply tells me that those people should probably be content just using their phones and, if they run into problems, go to Sprint for assistance. It's usually easy to tell who has a more technical understanding of the phone just by the content of their posts.
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This is completely true. There are a LOT of people on here who do things without reading or thinking. I think it was when the Hero dropped in price. Everyone bought it, they started googling it, they found XDA, and started posting left and right. I got my Hero the day it came out, but I didn't root it until January 2010. I was a little hesitant and scared, but I did it.... and I'm glad I did.
A number of posters either dispute or are no sure of the warranty position regarding rooting in particular .
Fact one the phone provider who is usually responsible for the first twelve months warranty can most certainly reject warranty for non original firmware or rooting .In the UK i have checked the position with O2 and Vodaphone who say they will reject under terms of their warranty .
SAMSUNG own warranty which is also usually paid in the first twelve months to the seller/repairer .
Basically say exactly the same rooting or custom rom voids warranty .
The letter on Samfirmware for starters if you don't believe .
http://www.samfirmware.com/apps/blo...cs-?&fw_comments_page=2&fw_comments_order=ASC
Extract from other sources .
ROOTING:
• Corporate recently added an additional reason for an Android handset to be considered as Out-Of-Warranty.
• Android handsets that have been subject to “rooting”, “jailbreaking” or “hacking” are no longer covered under warranty and may be grounds for termination or modification of service.
• Rooting is a process that modifies a handsets software allowing access to services not supported or tested by the Carrier or OEM.
• While there are more applications out there that allow subscribers to gain root access, a specific example seen on a Samsung Galaxy Indulge is shown below.
• If you see this application on the handset, please explain that the handset is out of warranty and be certain to access the customer’s account and add a memo that the handset has been rooted.
The picture they posted of is super user and some other ones.
another source
The reason I'm posting this now is because Samsung have only this week implemented a system for Service Centres to check if the handset has been rooted.
Point is its very easy in most cases to unroot and flash a stock firmware .
Some service guys may well turn a blind eye to rooting others may not .No good saying some guy on XDA said it was ok .
User choice but i have seen enough to convince me 100% ROOT = VOID WARRANTY .
jje
I thought this was common knowledge anyway?
Coedy said:
I thought this was common knowledge anyway?
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Click to collapse
Yes but its recently been disputed by some so i just pulled out my notes .
jje
^ Some people just don't get it however and seem to think they're still entitled, even if they returned it to stock and reset the counter, etc...
Individual cases may vary, maybe you'll get a "mod friendly" warranty facility, but I wouldn't feel bad for someone who gets denied warranty in the least. If someone can't afford to replace their phone out of pocket, they shouldn't be modding it.
True, i already expect that I'll void the warranty once i root my phone.. it's the point of no return..
I keep a safe distance on messing up my phone, make sure i don't get too far and ended up with a dummy display phone..
Sent from The Center of The Earth
mudferret said:
If someone can't afford to replace their phone out of pocket, they shouldn't be modding it.
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Exactly. I would hope everyone would understand the risk before doing something like this.
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
There will be no super user app or the like... Furthermore unlike i.e. SE Xperia phones the bootloader of the S2 isn't locked. Unlocking the bootloader of these phones is indeed a one way street. I don't see how this should apply for the S2?
This should be stickied with a tagline along the lines of:-
"Thinking of flashing a custom rom or kernel ? Consider this..."
I'm with Bell and I had a Rooted Atrix with cyanogenmod 7 beta 3 (back in the days..) and I had screens problems, I gave my phone to Bell and they send it to Motorola and it works flawlessly but they put me back on their motoscrap...
I'm sure Samsung will do the same thing
But thanks you anyways
harise100 said:
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
There will be no super user app or the like... Furthermore unlike i.e. SE Xperia phones the bootloader of the S2 isn't locked. Unlocking the bootloader of these phones is indeed a one way street. I don't see how this should apply for the S2?
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Click to collapse
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
Bam !
Beautifully put Zelendel Rooting/flashing (like throwing rocks) is all fun & games until someone gets hurt
zelendel said:
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
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Click to collapse
harise100 said:
How can they detect the phone was rooted when I reseted the custom fw count and flashed a stock rom ?
They are not going to look that far .
Boot screen Custom rom possible if doing the job check for root apps /root.
As i said a lot dont even bother and just flash stock rom and repair .
But a lot is not all .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With the new popularity of rooting, checking these things are becoming standard. To be honest I am glad. It will make people think first before they follow a video on youtube that is normally made by someone that has no idea what they are doing other then following a simple how to.
Modding a device is not ment for everyone. Nor should everyone do it.
Wait...the carrier can terminate your line for rooting?
Sent from my x10 mini running the latest version of minicm 7.
aloy99 said:
Wait...the carrier can terminate your line for rooting?
Sent from my x10 mini running the latest version of minicm 7.
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Click to collapse
Yeah they can terminate your contract if you mod your phone is anyway. Not to mention charging you the full price of the phone and the rest of the contract left over.
Main reason there are warnings all over the place about knowing and understanding what you are doing before you do it.
I would like to say that under the Australian law (sorry other nationalities) that Competition and Consumer Act 2010 gives a great coverage of products and if there is a hardware fault from the phone the supplier should not be able to reject your claim if modification of the phones software is unrelated to the issue. Although there is a clause that states:
You may not be entitled to a remedy if you:
damage or use goods in an unreasonable or unintended manner
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Click to collapse
I don't think it is unreasonable or unintended to run custom software on a programmable device. After all Samsung did give phones away so CyanogenMod would run on them.
Bottom line If I brick my phone or mess it up due to software modification I accept full responsibility but if the fault lies with the device itself the warranty should hold and no matter how much crap they put in a EULA or their written warranty Australian law should protect my device.
If I buy a computer and I remove windows to install Linux I still expect a warranty to hold if the hardware fails.
Rooting is the only way to take control of a device that I own so my personal information can stay personal.
Im interested in what the laws are like in the EU.
However my own position on this is that one should be allowed to use any software and mods to software you want.
If there is a hardware malfunction they should fix it whatever software you chose to use. If you brick the bootloader they can JTAG it probably.
And this far i have never had anyone ever say anything about me using custom roms and the like.
However i would still like to know what the laws say.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
rako77 said:
I would like to say that under the Australian law (sorry other nationalities) that Competition and Consumer Act 2010 gives a great coverage of products and if there is a hardware fault from the phone the supplier should not be able to reject your claim if modification of the phones software is unrelated to the issue. Although there is a clause that states:
I don't think it is unreasonable or unintended to run custom software on a programmable device. After all Samsung did give phones away so CyanogenMod would run on them.
Bottom line If I brick my phone or mess it up due to software modification I accept full responsibility but if the fault lies with the device itself the warranty should hold and no matter how much crap they put in a EULA or their written warranty Australian law should protect my device.
If I buy a computer and I remove windows to install Linux I still expect a warranty to hold if the hardware fails.
Rooting is the only way to take control of a device that I own so my personal information can stay personal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the thing. The device is INTENDED to run on the software they install. That's how they justify saying that any custom software could be the cause for hardware issues.
Take the PC example you used. OeM have been known to deny warrenty if you installed any OS other then the one that was on it. Like loading Linux on your windows PC. Mainly due to the use open source drivers instead of the OEM drivers made for the device. Samething goes for AOSP roms. They don't use drivers made for the device. They use generic device drivers that "could" cause hardware issues and that is what they love to say.
Spent a few years doing PC and smartphone repairs and that was the first thing we were trained to look for. If we found any sign of Modding in anyway we were to not repair it till they cleared it with the owner that they were going to be charged for it due to a voided warrenty.
zelendel said:
Think of it like a PC. Just because you format the harddrive doesn't mean the info is gone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point.
Amazon repair service didn't use forensic software when I sent them a xperia Neo with the 0%-bug. They replaced it without much ado. Lucky me ;-)
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
zelendel said:
That's the thing. The device is INTENDED to run on the software they install. That's how they justify saying that any custom software could be the cause for hardware issues.
Take the PC example you used. OeM have been known to deny warrenty if you installed any OS other then the one that was on it. Like loading Linux on your windows PC. Mainly due to the use open source drivers instead of the OEM drivers made for the device. Samething goes for AOSP roms. They don't use drivers made for the device. They use generic device drivers that "could" cause hardware issues and that is what they love to say.
Spent a few years doing PC and smartphone repairs and that was the first thing we were trained to look for. If we found any sign of Modding in anyway we were to not repair it till they cleared it with the owner that they were going to be charged for it due to a voided warrenty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rooting does not mess with the drivers and I am defiantly not touching the cpu clock.
The only reported case of a pc manufacturer that i can find refusing to remedy a hardware problem where the operating system was changed was pc world which later stated that was not there policy and would preform a repair. international law may be different but under Australian law I have full ownership of the device and I think it is outrageous that companies try and weasel there way out of their rights to the consumer.
In my mind if the fault is there's they have to fix it and no way should they be able to say otherwise. Its really just a matter of who has the burden of proof.
So I noticed Moto has the unlocked the bootloader on their Razr M.
They priced it at $549 - I was reading their FAQ and they made mention to unlocked boot loaders not being able to install some apps from the google play store? Has anyone run into this at all? There sure is a lot that Moto says may break and have issues after unlocking the bootloader of a supported dev. model.
LET'S MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTING INTO FIRST.
In case you didn't know, Bootloader is a little bit of code that tells your device's operating system how to boot up. Basically, it's what makes your device start up and run the way you're used to.
Motorola has done the work to make sure your device has a fully optimized, certified and tested version of Android.
Unlocking the bootloader will allow you to customize your device, but keep the following in mind:
Unlocking your bootloader is not for the faint of heart. Unlocking your device and installing your own software might cause the device to stop working, disable important features and functionality, and even make the device unsafe to the point of causing you harm. Neither Motorola, nor your wireless carrier or retailer from whom you purchased the device, will be responsible for such damage, so please do not unlock or load any software unless you know what you are doing.
You have only yourself to blame. Once you get the unlock code, your device is no longer covered by the Motorola warranty; in other words, please don't blame us if things go wrong, even if they appear unrelated to unlocking the bootloader.
The law still applies. You still need to operate your device in compliance with all applicable laws, rules and regulations prescribed by the FCC, and any other governmental agency for that matter.
And now a word from our lawyers. Finally, in order to unlock your device, you need to agree to important legal terms, which can be found on the next page. Agreeing creates a binding legal agreement, so be sure to read them carefully.
STILL INTERESTED IN UNLOCKING THE BOOTLOADER?
First, confirm that your device can be unlocked
Currently, Photon Q 4G LTE, and DROID RAZR HD and DROID RAZR M Developer Editions can be unlocked.
For a complete list of supported devices, see What devices are supported by the Bootloader unlock program?
REVIEW ALL THE WARNINGS AND MAKE SURE YOU COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE IMPLICATIONS
Once you get the unlock code, your device is no longer covered by the Motorola warranty; in other words, please don't blame us if things go wrong, even if they appear unrelated to unlocking the bootloader.
Unlocking your device and installing your own software might cause the device to stop working, disable important features and functionality, and even make the device unsafe to the point of causing you harm. Neither Motorola, nor your wireless carrier or retailer from whom you purchased the device, will be responsible for such damage, so please do not unlock or load any software unless you know what you are doing.
You still need to operate your device in compliance with all applicable laws, rules and regulations prescribed by the FCC, and any other governmental agency for that matter.
Your wireless carrier may prohibit unlocked devices from operating on their network.
Finally, in order to unlock your device, you need to agree to important legal terms located on the next page. This creates a binding legal agreement, so be sure to read them carefully.
HOW UNLOCKING YOUR BOOTLOADER COULD IMPACT YOUR DEVICE
You will lose all media and content on your device and will need to reinstall all applications downloaded from Google Play.
You will not be able to watch any movies you downloaded.
Applications may not work anymore.
You may lose encryption support.
You may lose some key functions like telephone, radio, and audio playback.
You could cause permanent/physical damage to your device.
Unlocking your bootloader will not change your device subsidy lock status
If you don't understand any of the above risks or warnings, we suggest that you do not continue to unlock your device's bootloader.
If, however, you are ready to accept all the implications of unlocking the bootloader, which includes completely voiding your device's warranty, continue on to receive a bootloader unlock code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've rooted and flashed previous android handsets to Cyanogen mod before without any issues - it's fairly straight forward. Would this be any different because of the bootloader unlock?
Pardon my ignorance, I seek your wisdom xda.
Thank you
patrickisfrench said:
Would this be any different because of the bootloader unlock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unlocking bootloader resets the device to out-of-the-box state. Your files would still be kept on external sd card; internal sd card gets wiped. All the Moto warnings are there to basically scare off inexperienced users. The apps that worked with locked bootloader will surely work with unlocked one.
Google Play Movies is an example of one that wouldn't work.
[TSON] said:
Google Play Movies is an example of one that wouldn't work.
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Click to collapse
Wow - I just paid $550 and it won't install Google play movies? Can you explain that one?
Thanks
wado1971 said:
Wow - I just paid $550 and it won't install Google play movies? Can you explain that one?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They used to not let Google play movies work on rooted devices. However, I thought they fixed that a few months ago, so unless I'm wrong I think you should be ok. Guess you'll find out tomorrow and in any event, it should DEFINITELY work if you aren't rooted. I don't think the developer device is rooted by default, right ? Just boot loader unlocked.
-Sent from my TMOUS HTC One S.-
-Stock/rooted 2.21 + 1.06s baseband-
-Hboot 1.06-
Yes you can now use Google Play movies on a Rooted, Unlocked phone. I have it running on my Cyanogen Modded Galaxy Nexus. That hasn't been an issue for quite some time.
I had that issue of not playing movies because of root about two months ago
Sent from my XT907 using xda app-developers app
As there often appear problems with guarantee/warranty from consumers whose device status is custom, rooted or running a custom rom, I would like to post a general article where your rights are described from official side:
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/consumer_topics/buying_goods_services_en.htm
In case of eg. SDS it doesn't matter which status your device has, you have the right to get it repaired without any costs.
Same when your hardware has an issue that was there from the beginning. Therefore don't be too worried if your knox count is 0x1.
In case of doubts about your rights, contact a consumerfriendly organisation, lawyer or someone who can help you to get advice.
Consumers with problems in Germany/Austria can send me a PM.
Good luck to all! :highfive:
Hi,
thanks for the link, but I cannot found anything about changed or rooted devices inside...
Thx Jiri
No need to mention that the software is altered. Faulty hardware has to be repaired, that's the fact and statement of the article.
As long as the customization of the software hasn't caused the issue, there is no way to neglect your right either by the seller or even Samsung with it's 2 years warranty.
Was looking at the Terms and Conditions of unlocking the bootloader today... ran across this condition that I haven't seen anyone mention:
From the Unlocking your Bootloader T&C agreement page
(4) User is unlocking the Device and/or altering the Device's software or operating system for his/her own personal use; User agrees not to transfer (i.e. sell, lease, or otherwise receive compensation from any third party for the right to use, possess, or operate such Device) such Device to any third party
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the Bootloader unlock legal agreement where it is paraphased in "common" terms in the intro to the legal document.
4. Devices that have been unlocked are for your personal use only. Once you unlock the device, you can only use it for your personal use, and may not sell or otherwise transfer the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just throwing it out there for (fun) discussion purposes... seeings how we all "agreed" to this.
Funny. Because that's going to happen.
Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
Yeah, I saw that when I unlocked my devices, didn't deter me any.
But I never sell electronics anyway, that's why I have a drawer full of phones.
It would be interesting to see how it gets enforced if at all. I guess the only way it would happen is if the party who buys it takes legal action against the person who unlocked/sold it to them.