Related
The thought popped up in my head this morning. I remembered Eugene, the developer of the Macnut ROM, who no longer supported XDA. Then another dev, jellette, that quit for reasons I can't quite understand. Who's to blame for these developers quitting the scene, or only providing ROMs on other sites?
I'm a 16 year old high school student in San Francisco. I've been lurking the forums ever since I got my Vibrant and my friend directed me here. I'm not at all new to hacks like these, I've been participating in communities and actions like these since I was 12. I never found a reason to become closely connected within this community, though. It's not a small group, it's a much larger one, and I don't have any place to fit in. This is one of my first posts, and it's one that I feel I need to share with the community: my thoughts and beliefs on the whole situation about devs that no longer support XDA or flat out quit.
Let's cover some ground first:
These devs are not paid. They make these ROMs, custom kernels, and other mods in their spare time. The only money they make off these ROMs comes from donations, and some devs don't ask for donations anyway.
The users are not paying for this work. The users don't need to give feedback, however they are permitted and allowed to comment, criticize, or help the developers in any way.
The trade made here is obviously unfair: give nothing, get something. In many cases, get a great piece of work for your phone that will make it blazing fast and give it features and functionality unheard of to other users of the same phone. The devs are ok with this though, as they freely release their work without a price tag.
However, there are some things devs are not ok with. I can't speak for each and every single developer, but having once done development in my own time as well, I can say the one thing that really aggravates all developers, and all people even, is when your work goes unnoticed, or worse yet, gets disrespected. When some bombarding, ignorant user comes along and rips apart your hard work, what are you to do? "This ROM is utterly horrible, you should've put more work into it before releasing this paperweight." Maybe a bit over the top, but it gets the point across, and it's from this that a developer will most likely quit XDA as he sees fit.
So what can we say about the users, the freeloaders? Some decency is expected of all of us, basically. That's the lesson every user should know: respect those that give you what you get. They're not robots that work endlessly with nothing better to do. These are people, hard working men and women who spend hours on end making software for you. Give them your respect. Constructive criticism is nice, but never go so far as to demote them as a person. If you want their respect, you must give them respect. Make them feel welcome and they will continue to work for the entire community. It's simple, human nature.
As for developers, are they in the right place to quit under these grounds? There is no set ground for quitting. Each person sees fit at what time he or she should quit working, in any case: as a dev, as an employee, as anyone. People need to know their limits, and they do know their limits. As a free working developer, they have a lot more liberty in deciding when they want to stop working for the community. Even someone who didn't feel accused or demoted could leave for no reason and it wouldn't affect them as much as if they had left their full-time paying job. This is not a source of revenue, it's not a source of anything, in fact.
One thing devs should know, and this is coming straight from me, is that as someone who releases work on the forums, your name will be known, and it's wise that you build a public image for yourself. Quitting without reason, without a post to describe your feelings, to express concerns or thoughts on the community or whatever else you'd like to mention, does not help build a good public image. You are at liberty to do as you please, that's your free choice, but people will judge you based on your actions. Throwing yourself into a position as such, as a chef, comes with more than just giving out work. It comes with the comments users will give you. It's good to be able to politically conduct yourself, to create a good public image, which will ultimately help you avoid the negative comments the public makes.
In conclusion:
Users: Be respectful, have some common decency. This is for all of us, not just those who don't get it. It's a rule we should all know. Developers are humans, just like us. Respect them as such.
Developers/chefs: You are free to do what you like. Quit as you please, continue as you please, no one will stop you. It is, however, important to make a good public image. Not necessary, but important. Conduct yourself in a political manner, because us users see you as a strong force, not just as a person. Be ready to make a good public image.
I want to know your thoughts on this. I feel it's important that this ground is covered, and that we come to a general consensus on this. The more you know, the better off you are. The more we all know, the better off we will all be.
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
xriderx66 said:
if only there were more users like you.
I'm tired of these little immature kids making these hardworking devs leave the forum.
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I second that...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
I agree with you 100% in partucular regarding the users.
I came to this forum looking for support, trying to get the GPS working on my Vibrant.
Before I posted or did anything I read many threads and researched what it meant to use Odin and to root the phone and flash a rom and to recover from a problem before I even started anything. When I did I was fully aware that I and I alone, was responsible for anything that happened to my phone. I am continually amazed at how some people jump in, without a clue as to what they are doing, then seem to try to blame the developers for their problems. Then you have the group who complain about colors or a boot animation or a "missing" app on a rom they got for free. Simply amazing the entitlement people have over something that someone puts out there for them to try to improve their phone for free.
I can understand how the devs could get fed up with these sorts of actions. It can take a pretty thick skin to deal with all the stuff I see going on here.
It is like a preschool in here...just get used to it.
Life will go on, and someone will always be making roms--herds are pathetic, individuals are lost inside said herds. Keep your ears open and your mouth shut.
My $0.02
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
I have plenty of respect for the few guys who make a few useful programs, and I don't think I've ever bashed a dev's work openly. But:
ScooterG said:
No one but the Dev can pull their ROMs and leave. We all take criticism in life. Some run, some brush it off.
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/Twerd.
Gotta give respect to receive, and some devs just think they are God's gift to Captain Taco. It's the Internet - no one gets respect on the 'tubes. Who gives a ****. The growing up really neds to happen on the part of most of these "I'm pouty b/c someone said something crass about some weekend work I did" "developers."
Drewstein said:
I agree to a point, just if anyone runs off Master I'm forming a mob with pitchforks and torches...
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McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
-bZj
Agree ...........great post clear concise and to the point. Funny, that a 16 year old can articulate the basics of good behavior that most in here do not practice. I do not blame a lot of the devs leaving, people rag on their work give nothing but complaints..... as if they have the skill (yeah right).People will eagerly wait 10 min in a Starbucks line, pay 5.00 for a coffee and never donate to the dev, XDA or anything........then complain when the custom rom they got for free doesn't work the WAY they like or want......... talk about selfish irony...........
Great post !! kevipapo1 (from a guy old enough to be your grandpa )
i agree with it. people need to remember that without dev. we would all be running stock
If master leaves I'll suicide.
I hope ur reading this, master
Unfortunately this is the interwebz and this is has its been in any android forum I've ventured through. As you are young, but yet seem to be fairly wise, I say to you "welcome to the world my friend!"
Very good post.
Most criticism is from lack of knowledge/education. People don't understand how difficult it is to develop a ROM. So they criticise what they don't understand because it inconveniences them.
However, I will disagree somewhat with developer criticism. Although, I don't agree with the way Master handled the situation, I can relate.
I believe it is very important for us to realize that ROM developers are not public figures. They have the freedom to stop and start as they please. Their passion is development, after all, not public relations.
Kudos OP. Excellent post!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I just want to say thanks to all Developers here at XDA. Without you and your ROMS or tweaks i wouldn't have the great phone i have today that i spent my hard earned money on, and to the immature people if something doesn't work right on a ROM insted of being an ASS!!! and saying how crappy it is say whats wrong and they will fix it they have for me.
Again thanks to all who have helped you don't even know me but you all are ready to help at anytime day or night.
GARY
I personally am 15 and have been in xda since 13
I appreciate the devs for all their work if it wasn't for them i would have killed myself with many frustrations of a stock vibrant
I hate that some are immature and that some get really irritating i understand that some are new but some just get on nerves.
I wish eugene came back because he was.one of the first devs here
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
This is a great post & I echo the op's sentiments. This forum and the devs that contribute to it are a phenomenal resource to all of us and deserve to be treated with respect as we all do. The real shame is that a 16 yr old realizes this more than most of us adults (some of which are in name only). I've been in these forums for only a short time and the amount of immaturity, cynacism and deconstructive criticism I have seen is truly apalling and frankly I'm suprised more haven't bailed. I guess the Golden Rule isn't important when you've got the anonymity of the internet.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Lethal_NFS said:
I also think that those developing roms need to understand that a lot of members are teenagers that do not what respect is. I myself am 30yrs old and I know that there are more members that are much younger and very childish. The devs need to not take it out on the entire forum. There are more members that appreciate their work than there are that do not.
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Just because someone is childish does NOT mean that they are a child.
I've seen many adults that throw a tantrum worse than a 5 year old and many 5 year olds who act like they're going on 30.
Likely their age has nothing to do with it & its just a reflection of their random genetics and/or crappy parenting.
down8 said:
McMaster should shrink his huge sig. It's a symptom of my point: get over your self importance. There are (good) forums on the 'Net that enforce a 5-line or 100px tall rule (vs. his 300px +).
Again, not bashing the work, just the attitude, as presented.
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If its an issue, then xda should make a max image/sig size (like you mentioned other sites do). That simple.
Most of his signature tells you to search & read the XDA rules before posting, not really bad advice & since he has to answer questions from many people who don't do either, I can't really blame him.
It would be a LOT more aesthetically pleasing if it were text only, but since XDA allows it, I don't really have a problem with it.
Most of the devs have developed a bit of an attitude (I've seen it from Eugene, SomBionix, Master, and a few others) because of the crap they have to deal with & XDA not enforcing their own rules (this is supposed to have changed after the town hall meeting).
i have been on xda since 2005, left came back etc etc, i do minor edits and coding here and there for myself because i dont have the time like these other people. but honestly most people need to get over themselves. this is a strong community and will live on without you. that said this community has made some people millionaires and others just brats who want the limelight. the idea behind this site is to take the software into our own hands. its us vs. corporations. if devs want to leave cool stfu about it and go but keep in mind that unless you have a contributed to the community dont complain about someones work. devs know what come when you start producing products. its the same that companys deal with. most leave because they get their feelings hurt. its not like people are stalking you and breaking your kneecaps because angry birds wouldnt play during their lunchbreak. ignore the negative and stay or wine and leave. but this place or any place wont change. the more successful you get the harder your skin must be
About me and why it all got under my skin.
James / jellette / Heathen
39 year old, married, father of 3
<Edited out line, too personal>
I look around and see Darky, Doc, Jim, Eugene, TW and everyone else doing Gingerbread clones - and they aren't called "Copy Cat" - but when I do it I am. That makes a guy pretty darn mad.
I set out to do the latest Rom 100% from scratch without drawing from the work of any existing Rom specifically because of my relationship with TW. The takers out there have no idea how much work goes into doing that.
Here was and continues to be the process with PepperKake.
1. Download the JL5 Rom from samfirmware.com
2. Odin to get a feel for the new firmware.
3. Rip the files from factoryfs.rfs
4. Release the first flashable Odexed recovery safe JL5 by 30 minutes
5. Deodex the apps and jars - on this build I was unsuccessful deodexing swype and I used krylon360's swype and credited him for that.
6. Download the Nexus S dump
7. Pull all of the images I needed out of framework-res.apk and SystemUi.apk and the original bootanimation.zip and the icon out of every matching Gingerbread app
8. Carefully build the theme, re-mod the Gingerbread Launcher and create the faux crt shutdown sequence.
9. Rip the gps files from the Nexus S dump including permissions for gps and maps and restructure JL5 to call these files
10. Replace with 3E recovery, ensure the sdcard mounts, etc..
11. Flash and fix 219 times until it is 99% bug free and ready for an Alpha release.
As you can see, this is not a weekend cooked rom as put earlier in the thread.
I update my roms usually once a day until it is complete, I fulfill requests for kernel flash packs for the rom, etc..
I did get pretty angry and pulled my roms - I later replaced the most recent rom. I also set up my website as a backup, which is quickly becoming my primary release source. I will stay around xda though like it or not.
On those who have followed me to the new site in support: Thank you.
Finally, a very short word on TW.
I have nothing but respect for these guys. I learned everything from them.
And that is my word on this.
When I first came to this forum, I was admittedly lost and confused.
I had my Samsung Vibrant for a very short time, and it was giving me non-stop problems; It was nothing; but a headache. I bought the phone believing some of the hyperbole that surrounded it. My previous Samsung (Dumbphone) had worked beautifully for a year until it's touchscreen died. Considering the fact that it featured a "resistive" touchscreen, and factoring in normal wear from daily use. I just couldn't be mad about it. It served it's purpose. This was my reason for purchasing the Samsung Vibrant. I was ready to buy a much better device with a better touchscreen; I had done my homework on Android, and was waiting for the right time to purchase an Android device.
I didn't want the Behold 2; I checked it out, and after handling a live model at the store, it felt cheap and I was a little surprised by that; because the Behold 1 was literally made with REAL Metal etc.
I visited this site, and realized that I could ACTUALLY replace the inoperable ROM
that was leaving my Samsung Vibrant non-functional
I posted my issues looking for answers and was instead attacked vigilantly by developers and other members here
This was the exact opposite of what I was expecting.
I've noticed that Developers here frequently bully other users here, and they have friends who use rogue tactics which cause the developers to close ANY thread which openly criticizes Samsung or T-Mobile in a negative way.
Recently we found out that the creator of the Cyanogen mod was just hired by Samsung!
Based on the response even to the most subtle of my issues
I have had nothing but suspicion since the beginning.
I have been wondering who your company holds in the best interest
Is it the people?
Yourselves?
Or the corporations you seek jobs (and/or) sponsorships from or look to gain sponsorship from?
All I can say is that when your site claims it is for the developers you leave some important things out of the equation.
This site is frequented by regular people who do not have the money or time to go and buy ten different phones to play with.
Some of us don;t have the time to sit there for hours and work on code
There are REGULAR people who are members of this site
they have issues like me, and we do not act like we know everything
we are not selfish and narcissistic.
You have never considered as as a factor
were sick of the bullying and favoritism
and I was the first to fight back
I am asking
What's wrong with XDA?
It's not you, It's me.
The best advice to any new user that I can give is to sit, watch, and read. If you come in your first day and post a question that gets asked on a weekly basis you will be flamed. If you have a reasonable level of tech savy, and watch and read the forums for two weeks or so 90% of your questions will be answered and almost all of those that aren't can be found easily by searching (the xda search function sucks imo but a Google search returns xda pages easily).
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Lol Your post really touched me because that's how life and the real world is. Not so much on XDA. If you at least read the first full post and the last page of the thread you will know about any bugs/fixes and won't be flamed for asking the same question. I know it's kind of intimidating when people who build the ROMS tell you your wrong about something and openly express displeasure about having to answer the same question over and over. But you also have to keep in mind that this is an open community and anywhere you go in life or the internet there will be assholes and trolls but 99 percent of the members of this forum are cool people who can relate to not being able to afford 3 phones. Lighten up bud. If you have at least the slightest knowledge about technology and problem solving. You should be just fine. BTW most trolls have 0-25 posts and 0-3 thanks and are juniour members. Just something I thought I'd share.
It be like dat
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
oh, and to answer your question, it sounds like you are the problem with xda. i've never had a problem. i've never blamed samsung or tmob for me purchasing the vibrant (and i love my vibrant), i don't demand or expect anything from the devs, i just appreciate what they do for us and try and help others when i can.
It's about respect bro.
I've only been flashing for a couple months but i was lurking for a month before I posted.
I read, learned, and then asked. I got flamed sure, but now I try to help other users with their repeat questions so the devs don't have to.
Anyway... your post is probably going to fall on deaf ears.
You do not complain ON the site you're complaining ABOUT.
You're wasting your time and venting to the community you're venting about.
Pretty much making people mad at you is all you did
Sorry man.
Vibrant+MIUI
I've been here a while. I just lurk so I don't have to deal with assholes. I also read and use the search to avoid asking questions. 98% of the time my questions have already been asked and I find the answer myself.
Hey MicBeast, how did that class action law suit go for you? Make any more songs about it?
Its funny how you sound self righteous here, when I remember a much different person starting a lot of drama when I first saw your name popping up around here, a simple search and anyone can read that whole soap opera.
But hey, this is just one man's opinion.
Sent from my ZenDroid, meditating on the XDA App
Dude....
Something uncomfy crawl up your pants leg ?
I've asked plenty of questions on this site....always got the answer (granted a few asswipes always show).
I've *****ed about both Slambung and Tblowbile, no one bad mouthed me for it.
Hell, I have a Motorola Photon on Sprint now (yes, it WAS that bad).
I don't see the problem.
If you don't like it.....walk the hell away.
Not one soul forced you to be here.
MicBeast, I just skimmed your 125 posts.
I will not say much, but maybe you should really think about what's wrong with xda... Keeping in mind that xda is a place for developing predominantly.
I've never had this kind of experience personally, and I actively discourage it in my thread. My thread its full of helpful nice posts and great individuals. I don't do this for any reason but the love of doing so, and never plan on doing it any other way. Its rude, insulting, and wrong to generalize anyone, you have only interacted with a fraction of the people on here. Once you have spoken with EVERY person, then you can make a statement, for now, please refrain from these gross generalizations.....
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
I thought you have an Iphone now? So why are you lurking on these forums still?
You have nothing better to do than to waste your time harassing people you don't know on the internet?
If I remember correctly, I've seen YOU bullying quite a few different members. Causing much more drama than any developer I've ever seen.
XDA is for developers to share and "develop" their work, share ideas, etc... They don't necessarily have to be every newbie's personal tech support agent. They can help who they want on their own free will... And if they don't feel like being nice, or get fed up with the same questions asked over and over again, then by all means let them. No one is paying them, and they certainly aren't bound by any contracts.
This isn't a service, there's no 1800 number to call and complain to. It's a public forum, so deal with it. Take some time and appreciate the information that this forum is bulging at the seams with, for free, for anyone to learn.
I just looked at ur post an yea u are what is wrong with xda u go around an complain about how things aren't working troubleshoot it ur self an what about that iPhone which is "better" than android go to whatever fourm they have an just go away :-/
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Ok..here we go:
The name of the site should be a clear shot of what this site is all about, XDADEVELOPERS.COM.
Secondly...what's "wrong" with this site is the same as any other site...some members, either old or new, that think that they opinion is more valuable than other and for that they tend to bully themselves around
Third...why even start a thread about this topic when you clearly know the reaction it's going to cause...in my book that is considered a type of trolling and even though I'm up for trolling the OT fora every now and then, do not agree with threads that will stir up the pot (if you know what I'm mean )
Hence, thread closed.
Best regards with your future endeavors mate...come back and visit
Moving on to greener pastures
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA
See ya' on the flip side ...
Yeah, I think I may move as well but I'll keep in touch with xda. seriously, mods. This forum is for Developers, not for you to be a little ***** and think you're the king of everything.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using xda premium
The f*k happened anyway?!?? I heard rumors and I'm not stateside so I don't log in as much so I really don't know what happened
Oo oo I know
This happens in every phone forum on this site. I have been on xda (as a user only) since the g1. I think it is good that the devs leave this site. Xda is only the first step for a new dev. Since the mods do not understand the term "development". Your everyday user should not be able to post in a dev thread. That is why we have a general forum. The Dev thread is for developers to talk to other developers to make a better product. It is not a place for users to complain and bad mouth developers, all that does out make them leave. Maybe one day xda will realize that.....cyanogen started on xda....he had his own site now....I wonder why.....lol
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
And without developers say goodbye to your advertising sponsorship. Slippery slope guys.
Remember, this is just a Web forum, nothing more and nothing less.
Maybe a revaluation of your perceived value of importance is known order.
It's just a real shame that the best devs keep leaving, and always for similar reasons. Biting the hand that feeds is never smart.
lostwhat83 said:
This happens in every phone forum on this site. I have been on xda (as a user only) since the g1. I think it is good that the devs leave this site. Xda is only the first step for a new dev. Since the mods do not understand the term "development". Your everyday user should not be able to post in a dev thread. That is why we have a general forum. The Dev thread is for developers to talk to other developers to make a better product. It is not a place for users to complain and bad mouth developers, all that does out make them leave. Maybe one day xda will realize that.....cyanogen started on xda....he had his own site now....I wonder why.....lol
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
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No its good for everyday people to post what they get when they flash new roms. Now bad mouthing that's a different story..
Hmmm that's ridiculous..
But i like this site..
Did people get butthurt over some ROMs not working or something? I'm confused, I would expect the devs to encourage bug testing and criticism...
clofan said:
Did people get butthurt over some ROMs not working or something? I'm confused, I would expect the devs to encourage bug testing and criticism...
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I don't know exactly what happened, but it wasn't something that an average user did. Brick'd was a fun guy. One of the mods decided to close the thread for a reason that I do not know, and brick'd wanted to say goodbye.
oka1 should be the only mod for our forum, he actually gets us + hes pretty damn cool. even though i have like 70 infractions from him from a year ago haha
Judging from Br1ckd's post in Zen I think something happened to another on the DD team. My guess is it was Dan but not sure. The mod in our tablet forum can go on power trips. Because Br1ckd is a Recognized Developer he has the power to lock/unlock his own thread.
Pretty sure it was an all for 1, 1 for all type thing. He's in a better place now. So lets not mourn his loss but rejoice in his new beginning. Hey, it's almost Easter and Padre Wood is done with his sermon.
Woodrube is on point. I pulled my stuff, closed my threads, and stopped hosting on xda due to something that happened in the sgs2 forums between a trusted friend and DD member, and an overzealous, aggro moderator. As well, the same DD member has also been receiving harassing pm's that the mods didn't seem to want to help with.
I've spoken with Oka1 about my decision and the facts surrounding it, and thanked him heavily for his part in cleaning up the Vibrant forum in recent months. He really has had a big hand in bringing this particular subforum to where it is now.
I harbor no ill will towards anyone over here and I still check in from time to time. However, I also stand by those who stand by me. When my boy had enough of the BS, it was obviously time for a change, and as a new team, we showed great unity in unanimously voting to move.
Hope this sets the record a bit more straight. Feel free y'all, to pop by and say hi sometime, sit a spell, and visit some old friends, and some new ones.
Sent from my ICZen experience, via Tapatalk
From this Moderator of the Vibrant
I Like all the guys in this forum, and this forum's Devs have been Stellar and worked together to keep things even and fair, properly giving credit to those who deserve. AS to the other forums I really do not know what happened, but I do know the SGS2 forums is a pretty tough bunch. So, it is understandable that some devs would get tired of the rowdiness..... That's unfortunate. I will strive to talk to the superiors about this incident so XDA can learn from it and make this forum a more conducive environment for all......
Thanks to all in this forum for being the good participants you are ........ ~~~ oka1
lostwhat83 said:
This happens in every phone forum on this site. I have been on xda (as a user only) since the g1. I think it is good that the devs leave this site. Xda is only the first step for a new dev. Since the mods do not understand the term "development". Your everyday user should not be able to post in a dev thread. That is why we have a general forum. The Dev thread is for developers to talk to other developers to make a better product. It is not a place for users to complain and bad mouth developers, all that does out make them leave. Maybe one day xda will realize that.....cyanogen started on xda....he had his own site now....I wonder why.....lol
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
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They just need to have a better "recognized developer" system. that way ONLY developers can post in dev section, and they have an available option to enable/disable posting in their thread - leave discussion threads for the general section. as long as the moderators cleaned up the general section once a day, making sure there is only one discussion thread per rom - it would be a flawless system
I think the more annoying thing is how people can theme a ROM, add a couple apks, along with some build.prop/ram tweaks, and then post it in the dev section as a new ROM. that drives me mad, and then the noobs encourage this behavior (because they dont know any better) by saying "why complain about having more options??", and by calling these members "developers" - release it under themes/apps, not development
^^the end result of this is a cluttered development section with multiple versions of the same ROM - all of them having poor explanations - so you dont know which ROMS are legit enough to monitor because they all have the same damn features listed
People need to stop *****ing and complaining and instant messaging developers about their builds.
Because of your attitude of entitlement you cost us one of the best ROM developers the community had. He busted his ass to release a top notch stock ROM with some sweet customizations. But people had to ***** about not being able to use this or that and had the audacity to say they used his ROM if he'd just do this or that.
If you have a problem with how the developers built their goods then don't use them and use something else or build your own.
These developers take time out of their lives to make a ROM or a kernel for us to use and never demand any payments in return. This is a hobby for them and we should be grateful they let us use what they develop.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Well said.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Welcome to xda where all the ungrateful idiots live. I stopped doing dev a lot time ago because of it.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
rebretz000 said:
People need to stop *****ing and complaining and instant messaging developers about their builds.
Because of your attitude of entitlement you cost us one of the best ROM developers the community had. He busted his ass to release a top notch stock ROM with some sweet customizations. But people had to ***** about not being able to use this or that and had the audacity to say they used his ROM if he'd just do this or that.
If you have a problem with how the developers built their goods then don't use them and use something else or build your own.
These developers take time out of their lives to make a ROM or a kernel for us to use and never demand any payments in return. This is a hobby for them and we should be grateful they let us use what they develop.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
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who did we loose and what rom
im kinda pissed right now after reading this. we dont have many dev's for are phone so for some noobs to run off a dev who was taking time outta of his life to make us a good rom has me very heated.
There are always people who do not contribute anything but are ever ready to complain. Anyone who has put anytime into any dev/mod work understands how much people like @nitroglycerine33 put into doing this for FREE. I don't use Eclipse but shame on the people responsible for this.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
I know the community in general has lost a lot of good developers in the last year.
As I don't have the capacity to build myself, I always say thanks and donate when I have the funds. Now there's a new crop who don't realize or care about all the work that goes into what the Developers do and just expect them to make whatever they demand. Sometimes **** just isn't compatible.
rebretz000 said:
I know the community in general has lost a lot of good developers in the last year.
As I don't have the capacity to build myself, I always say thanks and donate when I have the funds. Now there's a new crop who don't realize or care about all the work that goes into what the Developers do and just expect them to make whatever they demand. Sometimes **** just isn't compatible.
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XDA has changed or maybe it is just the Moto X's customer base because no one is ever happy
i just feel people can't read before asking, there greedy they have to have everything they want, and i second the fact of that they have no idea what it takes to develop these root exploits, Roms, ect. i was going to try and start creating roms for are phone but i have pushed back because i dont know if i even want to deal with everything that comes with it. i still might because i want to learn anyway but i might just keep the rom private. i havent decided yet. but i swear if people push away another dev i want to make the rom threads view only.
i mean we just got Flaux to start building his kernel for are phone we are finally starting to get some dev support and now people want to push the dev's away but not even 5 months ago everyone was complaining that we had no DEV support.
IDK end rant
dray_jr said:
XDA has changed or maybe it is just the Moto X's customer base because no one is ever happy
i just feel people can't read before asking, there greedy they have to have everything they want, and i second the fact of that they have no idea what it takes to develop these root exploits, Roms, ect. i was going to try and start creating roms for are phone but i have pushed back because i dont know if i even want to deal with everything that comes with it. i still might because i want to learn anyway but i might just keep the rom private. i havent decided yet. but i swear if people push away another dev i want to make the rom threads view only.
i mean we just got Flaux to start building his kernel for are phone we are finally starting to get some dev support and now people want to push the dev's away but not even 5 months ago everyone was complaining that we had no DEV support.
IDK end rant
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Well said and it's the community in general. It's a shame to.
termleech said:
Welcome to xda where all the ungrateful idiots live. I stopped doing dev a lot time ago because of it.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
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Wish there was a way to reinvent the procedures here so that people understood who they are talking to. This isnt a box store employee trying to sell you something .... people here have passion, talent and code writing skill.
And to hear that someone from Team Baked stopped (or maybe we had a chance at their dev skills) makes me even more frustrated. Team Baked, Nitro... these people and groups need to be respected and allowed to work without headache.
Isnt there a way to open a Moto X Original Pain In The A$$ thread and people can vent or whatever? But I guess the people feeling like they even have a reason to vent is the problem. Maybe there needs to be a QUOTA of donations BEFORE people can say anything negative or request anything.
dray_jr said:
XDA has changed or maybe it is just the Moto X's customer base because no one is ever happy
i just feel people can't read before asking, there greedy they have to have everything they want, and i second the fact of that they have no idea what it takes to develop these root exploits, Roms, ect. i was going to try and start creating roms for are phone but i have pushed back because i dont know if i even want to deal with everything that comes with it. i still might because i want to learn anyway but i might just keep the rom private. i havent decided yet. but i swear if people push away another dev i want to make the rom threads view only.
i mean we just got Flaux to start building his kernel for are phone we are finally starting to get some dev support and now people want to push the dev's away but not even 5 months ago everyone was complaining that we had no DEV support.
IDK end rant
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I think faux finally got tired of me making fun of him not having the Moto X haha. It's good to have him on board though.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
We loose a great ROM because a bunch of a$$holes had to ***** about Gravity Box and Xposed not working anymore. That's what pisses mew off the most. No one was making them use the ROM.
Got love the noobs on XDA, don't know what stickies are, noobs starting threads for no reason, noobs complaining about why this doesn't work on a ROM, noobs crying . it comes down to utter lack of respect for other users, noobs only concerned but themselves and don't bother to think about the other guy. Like I saw , if you're not going to help out in a positive way, then do use all a favour and don't post a reply, don't pm anyone , keep your fingers off the keyboard and read, read, read. Ultimately you're the one that will suffer.
Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
Faux is here now....hopefully the whiners and requesters don't chase him off too.
And as far as the state of the Moto x section ....it is far worse than the S2, N7, Moto G, tab 3 and N5 forums....all the ones I check in on. This one has a crazy amount of self entitled members, members who just won't take any time to read and search and guys who get mad if you call them out on any of it. Yes...the other forums have this behavior too, but nothing close to what I've seen here.
Yes, the locked/unlocked bootloader and ota stuff can get a bit confusing, but there's also tonnes of posts and threads about it. Not being able to find the info is a clear sign of laziness, cause you can hardly turn your head without seeing posts about these things.
We have very few roms and even fewer devs ......so keep acting like spoiled kids and soon we'll have none.
Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
Users need to look at it like this. Developers are generous enough to share their work. For most developers this is a hobby. And like anyone when a hobby is no longer fun then you stop doing that hobby and move on.
I think the moderators should really lock the moto x threads up for a few days, we also should use the report button, I've used it in the last few days more than I ever have
Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
All the crap has me thinking of giving my wife my amazing X and getting an N5 for me. LOL. She really wants an X....we will have 2 soon....unless I decide to switch. I doubt I will....but I am not enjoying xda so much lately. Lol
Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
kj2112 said:
All the crap has me thinking of giving my wife my amazing X and getting an N5 for me. LOL. She really wants an X....we will have 2 soon....unless I decide to switch. I doubt I will....but I am not enjoying xda so much lately. Lol
Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
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You can't let the noobs win, its our forum and we as respectful xda users can make a huge difference. I'm personally aware if one user who was one of the noobs who pushed nitro too far, he actually pm'ed For help
Sent on my Gummy running Lenoto X
rebretz000 said:
We loose a great ROM because a bunch of a$$holes had to ***** about Gravity Box and Xposed not working anymore. That's what pisses mew off the most. No one was making them use the ROM.
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Seriously? Was that why? Both of those are so overrated as it stands I would never trade a decent ROM for them. Hell I chose to run ART instead of either cause I want less lag, not more.
You really gotta have tough skin on xda nowadays, the noobs are gonna make all the smart guys go postal.
MotoX Developer Edition went from German 4.4.2 to Great Britain 4.4.2 to T-Mobile 4.4.2 no problem. Fastboot FTW!
We've all been on the other side. But seriously the amount of people in this forum who simply cant understand the meaning of reading first and asking second. Like there needs to be a giant banner saying READ READ READ.
Kittiesoncrack said:
We've all been on the other side. But seriously the amount of people in this forum who simply cant understand the meaning of reading first and asking second. Like there needs to be a giant banner saying READ READ READ.
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Its in the xda rules...but who reads that. LOL.
Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------
One newer member said ignore the rules and make a new account if you get banned. That's what he does. Classy!
Sent from my Moto X cellular telephone...
Why are we losing developer's. .is it xda policy, or are they just sick of to many questions of why dont it work? ?
Easily can be summed up in one word , entitlement! Saw this on the lg g3 forum, people think they are entitled to roms and the Dev are there to serve. Forget the fact these guys do it for free and share their work with and take the time write directions in there op .. That people don't bother to read! Start being respectful and grateful or learn to do the work yourself. I am not a Dev but I can def see their site of it.
I was questioned about his earlier.. So here is my opinion on it. A few pm's I have sent out confirmed a few things and even brought some other things to light I didn't even notice. Could additionally be some xda policy.
here
I hate people, this is why we cant have nice things.
What gives with this place. This place is amazing you can learn how to root android phones. Install custom recoveries. You can learn alot of stuff which can help you. You can ask seniors or others for help and they might cooperate. I am happy this site exists.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Free mobile app
I too was inspired but recieved pms asking when my roms comming out n asking for etas its not coming out least not to xda
I can tell you it is not XDA policy.
What it most likely is from what I have read is the influx of the entitled members. Moderators are reactive. We need to see reports on posts, then we can see what is going on. The problem with that is sometimes no one reports a post or issue, and the flaming goes on for days before someone reports it. This is a site of over 6 million users...thousands joining each week. So many posts of "Give me root NAO!" "Can we haz update Nao" Or the ever popular "Your ROM looks like a child made it" It would be a great help if no one responded and someone reported it...eazy peezy clean up and PM sent to that member. Instead the developer stressed from all the constant updates and support, blows up at the member...he gets a PM saying please report and try not to respond...he feels moderators are not quick enough...they go to G+...then guess what...within a few weeks they are yelling at users on G+...telling them to be nice, patient...blah blah blah. So you have developers upset because they cannot curse out these entitled members and/or the entitled members drive them crazy. They would rather work with 150 users on G+ than thousands of users here.
We do what we can but cannot stop a post before it happens..and then the damage is done...no matter what the moderator does. How do you become a welcome site for new members if you ban them on the first mistake? We try to explain what they are doing wrong. You have no idea how much time the volunteer moderators here spend in PMs with members...and how often it ends up with the moderators being cursed out. We also spend a lot of time talking to these teams..doing what we can to convince them to stay....there is a lot the average user does not see. It is not simply a developer taking his ball and going home. Many plan this for months..building their own sites. So help us help you. Report, don't add to the drama and cleanup...Thanks!
wojo797 said:
Easily can be summed up in one word , entitlement! Saw this on the lg g3 forum, people think they are entitled to roms and the Dev are there to serve. Forget the fact these guys do it for free and share their work with and take the time write directions in there op .. That people don't bother to read! Start being respectful and grateful or learn to do the work yourself. I am not a Dev but I can def see their site of it.
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Right. I miss being able to sit back and wait for cool roms & updates. But here in the Sprint Note 4 forums there's not much as far as developers goes. So what do you do? Either sit and cry or step up and do something yourself. I chose the latter. i'm a "take action" kind of person.
shawnsingh said:
What gives with this place. This place is amazing you can learn how to root android phones. Install custom recoveries. You can learn alot of stuff which can help you. You can ask seniors or others for help and they might cooperate. I am happy this site exists.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Free mobile app
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I agree . But you can't control the thoughts and opinons of others and people shouldn't be followers but responsible and respectful leaders instead. If somebody has a problem with XDA and/or members they want to pout, cry and throw fits. Then all of a sudden they want to take there "buddies" to their dream world "safe haven" where the grass is greener and things are so perfect and business is booming... uum ok, whatever. I refuse to play into that game. I'm a grown man and I accept and take responsibility for my actions and don't need to lay blame on XDA and/or it's not-so perfect members for my childish actions.
KennyG123 said:
I can tell you it is not XDA policy.
What it most likely is from what I have read is the influx of the entitled members. Moderators are reactive. We need to see reports on posts, then we can see what is going on. The problem with that is sometimes no one reports a post or issue, and the flaming goes on for days before someone reports it. This is a site of over 6 million users...thousands joining each week. So many posts of "Give me root NAO!" "Can we haz update Nao" Or the ever popular "Your ROM looks like a child made it" It would be a great help if no one responded and someone reported it...eazy peezy clean up and PM sent to that member. Instead the developer stressed from all the constant updates and support, blows up at the member...he gets a PM saying please report and try not to respond...he feels moderators are not quick enough...they go to G+...then guess what...within a few weeks they are yelling at users on G+...telling them to be nice, patient...blah blah blah. So you have developers upset because they cannot curse out these entitled members and/or the entitled members drive them crazy. They would rather work with 150 users on G+ than thousands of users here.
We do what we can but cannot stop a post before it happens..and then the damage is done...no matter what the moderator does. How do you become a welcome site for new members if you ban them on the first mistake? We try to explain what they are doing wrong. You have no idea how much time the volunteer moderators here spend in PMs with members...and how often it ends up with the moderators being cursed out. We also spend a lot of time talking to these teams..doing what we can to convince them to stay....there is a lot the average user does not see. It is not simply a developer taking his ball and going home. Many plan this for months..building their own sites. So help us help you. Report, don't add to the drama and cleanup...Thanks!
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I agree with you but I also see a lot of immaturity on behalf of these disgruntled individuals. They can't handle a few whiney disrespectful members and think thinks should be perfect and handled immediately by the mod team. Yea, ok. They can go elsewhere and see how grenn that grass really is. I won't miss a thing because without XDA these brats wouldn't have a clue or the slightest inspiration to do what they do to begin with. Bite the hand that feeds you? That's never worked out well for anyone. This isn't a business it's a hobby for developers. I don't think the majority of these private dev "teams" are raking in enough cash to pay one months mortgage. I point and laugh every time i read those hate comments by the you know who's.
ibcenu said:
Why are we losing developer's. .is it xda policy, or are they just sick of to many questions of why dont it work? ?
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I will tell you why I am stopping for awhile, no one appreciates anything, no dev respect what so ever, so why do people continuously stay on the devs a$$ about a time a rom is going to be updated, and much much more. It gets old, serious.
I can see if the OP does not clarify what the rom is about or when it is updated, THEY DON'T READ! I had one guy call me every name in the book because he didn't do a backup and flashed my rom and it continuously bootlooped, he proceed to tell me if I was around him, he would kick my........you get the picture, I told him simply, build your rom. problem solved...I suppose.
---------- Post added at 09:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 AM ----------
shawnsingh said:
What gives with this place. This place is amazing you can learn how to root android phones. Install custom recoveries. You can learn alot of stuff which can help you. You can ask seniors or others for help and they might cooperate. I am happy this site exists.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Free mobile app
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I will help people who read, and you can tell if they have been reading...
I can honestly say that I have not seen it this bad since I joined back in 2007 - A lot of unappreciative people - Everything I know how to do on an android phone, I learned from this site - I'm guilty of not reading through a thread all the way before asking a question but I also understand what this is all about - I enjoy coming here and catching up on the latest - I've had many different android phones and this is where I always come to learn - All I can say is, Thank You to ALL of the people here - I really don't understand why some people are so ungrateful for something that is given to them for FREE. Sorry for the rant, just my thought on the matter...
Im a developer, not an android developer, but a developer. Ive used xda for years, I answer questions when I can here. I hope the developers dont bail I love to see their input on things. Their personal insight has always been invaluable. I thank all of you guys I hope you stay.
Sent from my SM-N910P using XDA Free mobile app
I don't understand some of these complaints we have nearly every custom ROM available..... When I first got here we had 1-2 stock/stockish roms now we have damn near every one that's out there.... I don't get it.... And as tat said I've learned everything I know from xda and some good friends from xda....no school, no classes, just searching, reading, and a few good friends..... Makes no sense to see these statements saying we have no roms, we have no devs, where are all the roms, where are all the devs....... If we are really so lacking in development why do we have so much available to us.... I can really only think of maybe 3/4 roms we don't have ....IMO only thing we are lacking in is custom kernels and we even have a couple of those..... Really makes no sense to me
spleef said:
I don't understand some of these complaints we have nearly every custom ROM available..... When I first got here we had 1-2 stock/stockish roms now we have damn near every one that's out there.... I don't get it.... And as tat said I've learned everything I know from xda and some good friends from xda....no school, no classes, just searching, reading, and a few good friends..... Makes no sense to see these statements saying we have no roms, we have no devs, where are all the roms, where are all the devs....... If we are really so lacking in development why do we have so much available to us.... I can really only think of maybe 3/4 roms we don't have ....IMO only thing we are lacking in is custom kernels and we even have a couple of those..... Really makes no sense to me
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Lol right ??
Sent from my SCH-I545 using XDA Free mobile app
It seems like people whining about the "lack" of ROMs and developers think its still 2010-2011. Back when I had my og evo 4g, there were so many ROMs it blew my mind. I don't think these people realize there are a LOT of premium android devices, and no one can expect these devs to buy every device and build a ROM for all of them.
Sent from my SM-N910P using JellyBombed Tapatalk 2
m4xwellmurd3r said:
It seems like people whining about the "lack" of ROMs and developers think its still 2010-2011. Back when I had my og evo 4g, there were so many ROMs it blew my mind. I don't think these people realize there are a LOT of premium android devices, and no one can expect these devs to buy every device and build a ROM for all of them.
Sent from my SM-N910P using JellyBombed Tapatalk 2
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This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And more....Xposed! Many people are not using custom ROMs anymore..stock with a few add-ons is fine when they have so much control of their own customization. Back in 2010-2011 everything was brand new Eclair and Froyo...so much innovation on mods and fixes...that eventually became part of Google code and most mods only needed a few tweaks to work on the next version of OS. Also back then you had teams and sharing galore...people were happy to share what they made and also how to do it...now some teams do not want to share, they keep the code to their teams only...Devs back then did it for love, the quest for donations was rare. And last but certainly not least...AT&T and Verizon! The 2 biggest carriers locking their phone completely...of course developers will buy something else that they CAN modify...and with that goes those devs that shared things across carriers. So when you feel..."lacking" in the development sense...look at the dev sections here and T-Mobile..then stop in and see the ghost towns in AT&T and Verizon. Moral of the story...be grateful for what you have and maybe think about becoming the next dev if you are sticking around Sammy.
I was thinking the exact same thing about the advances in android as a whole. Each version recently have been massive steps ahead IMO. Back then android still had a ton of tweaks that needed to be made be it for performance, battery life, or functionality. Now, Google has gotten a lot of good upgrades into the os so it doesn't need as much tweaking.
And xposed for sure. When that came out it became a game changer. Before, if you wanted to tweak anything it required someone to make a flashable theme for your ROM, or for you to dig in on your own and tweak it. DPI scaling was system wide and caused issues with some things.
Now we have SIMPLE tweaks for every aspect of the device it seems. And per app DPI changes!!!
I would love to be a dev but lack the time and resources to do stuff, so I'll happily support any dev that's willing to put the hard work into building a ROM. Used to be an HTC fan but Samsung will always be my go to manufacture as long as they keep having an external SD slot.
And big kudos to the CyanogenMod team. I finally decided to try out cm12 and I'm blown away with the level of refinement in the ROM and theme system. Its like I have a whole new phone. And to think they have a ROM for such a huge list of devices is nothing short of impressive.
I'll stick with sprint as long as they keep my unlimited data and keep my phones unlocked. Screw tmo and Verizon.
The other big thing I noticed. Custom kernels are becoming a thing of the past. Evo 4g had like, half a dozen different kernels, some were tweaks of each others, etc, because android still needed a lot of refinement. Now, there's some kernel tweaks, but nothing massive compared to back then.
Sent from my SM-N910P using JellyBombed Tapatalk 2
Yeah I hate what people have done to good devs. If I like something they made I send them what I think is fair compensation for a single user. Strongsteve back in the gs3/note3 days was one of the best in my opinion.
Sent from my SM-N910P using XDA Free mobile app
Exactly people think devs are here to to be there servent we do it for free im new to deving but not on xda
pbedard said:
Exactly people think devs are here to to be there servent we do it for free im new to deving but not on xda
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Where at would love to check out your work
Definitely agree, when I had my OG EVO and EVO 3D there were so many ROMs, kernels, and mods I flashed 10 times a day lol. Now you find a ROM that you like and just tweak it with Xposed. I do miss the anthrax kernels...nothing compared. But I jumped off the HTC ship after my EVO 4G LTE, I got it replaced 6 times in 3 months and every replacement broke from the slightest thing. I loved my S5 and I love my Note 4 even more. I don't like how they integrated the battery and got rid of the SD slot on the S6 which is worrying, hopefully Sammy wakes back up and brings those 2 things back on the next line of Galaxys. I was surprised that there was even as many ROMs as there are for the Note 4 given that it's so new. My HTC phones I was always eagerly waiting for HTC to drop the source so a dev here could make a masterpiece...