Related
http://www.fudzilla.com/mobiles/mobiles/htc-hd3-out-in-9-days
That is a pretty bad 'article'.
The 'reporter' has worded it such that the reader has no idea which specs are for which device they mention.
Their 'sauce' [sic] mentions AMOLED displays, which in the current market, are a pain to get hold of, and HTC have already mentioned getting different types of screen (such as the Sony one a commenter has said) rather than use the AMOLED.
Well it's coming out anyway in the near future shame I still got another year on my contract.. The specs that have been mentioned seem very impressive I'm not sure about an even slighlty bigger screen it's big enough ain't it?
I bet my life that thats fake.
edved said:
http://www.fudzilla.com/mobiles/mobiles/htc-hd3-out-in-9-days
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what little evidence there is out there - at least from what little can be treated as in any way reliable - 15th September MAY be the day of the official announcement, with the actual device available some time thereafter.
One 'sauce' reckons an O2 spreadsheet shows it being available from mid-October.
Being little more than a month away from release - perhaps - I might have thought there would be more noise about WPS7, or am I just missing it? If locked down like the bright boys say it will be, WPS7 may be a killer - nice device or not. Backward compatability with WM6.5 anyone?
Gustopher said:
From what little evidence there is out there - at least from what little can be treated as in any way reliable - 15th September MAY be the day of the official announcement, with the actual device available some time thereafter.
One 'sauce' reckons an O2 spreadsheet shows it being available from mid-October.
Being little more than a month away from release - perhaps - I might have thought there would be more noise about WPS7, or am I just missing it? If locked down like the bright boys say it will be, WPS7 may be a killer - nice device or not. Backward compatability with WM6.5 anyone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm still in two minds about WPS7. I'm awaiting a play with one before a verdict
edved said:
http://www.fudzilla.com/mobiles/mobiles/htc-hd3-out-in-9-days
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm really not worried about the launch on the HD3 to be honest. It's likely to have initial problems and updates will inevitable. I'll hang on for the length of my contract and get one when it's up? I'm sure some clever cooks gonna run the os on an HD2 anywez?
Gustopher said:
From what little evidence there is out there - at least from what little can be treated as in any way reliable - 15th September MAY be the day of the official announcement, with the actual device available some time thereafter.
One 'sauce' reckons an O2 spreadsheet shows it being available from mid-October.
Being little more than a month away from release - perhaps - I might have thought there would be more noise about WPS7, or am I just missing it? If locked down like the bright boys say it will be, WPS7 may be a killer - nice device or not. Backward compatability with WM6.5 anyone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
o2 sais that the hd2 was going to be mid oct last year, ended up being nearly end of novemeber so id take that with a very large pinch of salt
"according to our source from the queen vic pub" - lool. I call bull**** on this article
davebobson said:
"according to our source from the queen vic pub" - lool. I call bull**** on this article
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 I call shenanigans
Very Interesting, but a big but....
Looking at another article the specs seem resonable, except I do not believe the dual core bit (Two major steps in one phone?)
Otherwise it looks like a phine with peppersauce and a cream-vanillasauce on top to soften things.
I am worried about stability and performance (New OS, Bigger screen [375 Kpix vs 1000 Kpix], probably - as HTC-usual- no good graphic drivers, Dual-core?)
If as usual the graphics drivers suck again, screen will be slower as on HD, as there are almost 3 times the amount of pixels to manipulate while the proc only delivers about 1.4 times HD2 capacity.
Stability will be an issue as combining new Operating system, new techniques and new processors, probably new gui over WP7 rarely integrate without major issues.
Glad I just hava a proven good phone, I will let the new techniques cristallize to stability before I will buy one.
Fake Fake and Fake
All we have to do is wait and see for it to come out, just appreciate what u've got for now!
I think this is too good to be true. Just me.
I'm going to take a punt and offer an opinion - nothing more.
I think the announcement date is probably genuine - the timing feels about right - and I suspect that the specs aren't too far off the mark, although I certainly wouldn't treat them as gospel.
The timing of RTM is much trickier and may be the alarm bell that should convince me that this is fake. If it is to be a WPS7 device, an October release is rather early given that MS seem to be suggesting availability of WPS7 from December...last I looked anyway.
So I think there is a germ of truth submerged in a moderate quantity of bull excreta. Happy to be proved wrong either way though!
Wouldnt it make alot more business sence to drum up interest and market the phone pre-releases?
THis is not going to be released in such a short time frame just like hd2 release drag it out and you get more ppl interested
Feck off (and i have to write this to bulk up my reply)
Wp7 doesn't support this resolution
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
You do realize that the way the OP titled the thread the release will always be nine days away don't you?
Airborne Aircrew said:
You do realize that the way the OP titled the thread the release will always be nine days away don't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unless they plan on editing it and counting down.........
by the time its released we'll be at about -34 days.............
We don't care what the box looks like and what's in it. Also we've seen plenty of Lollipop walk-though videos, we don't need another one.
Here's what we DO care about:
A good description of the color, especially the midnight blue model
What the backing material feels like. References to other materials would be helpful
For god sakes, play a youtube video or music so you can report back on how the FF speakers perform. Maybe a comparision to HTC's boom sound?
Please USE the camera in your videos so we can see how fast the autofocus and shooter is.
That is all. End of rant
There is a very tight double embargo on the Nexus 6. A number of sites came out with unboxing and 'hands on' in which they were not allowed to show any of the things you mentioned. The actual reviews will come soon when the 2nd embargo lifts.
ECrispy said:
There is a very tight double embargo on the Nexus 6. A number of sites came out with unboxing and 'hands on' in which they were not allowed to show any of the things you mentioned. The actual reviews will come soon when the 2nd embargo lifts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did not know this! Have been wondering why so many hands on, but no reviews.
I guess that makes sense especially if there's OTA firmware coming over the next few weeks to address last minute issues.
Yeah, was listening to the android central podcast and Phil Nickinson said they have an embargo with the N6 and there are thing he can't say or discuss right now.
I'll have to echo ECrispy on this. Many of the reviewers couldn't even log into their google accounts from the device.
chrisg1548 said:
Yeah, was listening to the android central podcast and Phil Nickinson said they have an embargo with the N6 and there are thing he can't say or discuss right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I seriously don't understand the "embargo" on certain topics.
What, is discussing details about performance going to stop people from buying the device? Oh! That is right...you can't buy the device or even pre-order it until lord (Google) knows when. So Google is intentionally stopping people from buying their device AND stopping people from talking about it...for no reason whatsoever.
Skripka said:
I seriously don't understand the "embargo" on certain topics.
What, is discussing details about performance going to stop people from buying the device? Oh! That is right...you can't buy the device or even pre-order it until lord (Google) knows when. So Google is intentionally stopping people from buying their device AND stopping people from talking about it...for no reason whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah i dont agree with it either and wang to see some full reviews instead of unboxing videos only, i mean the droid turbo is getting more hands on and feviews that the N6.
chrisg1548 said:
Yeah i dont agree with it either and wang to see some full reviews instead of unboxing videos only, i mean the droid turbo is getting more hands on and feviews that the N6.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would be one thing if Google were making like Santa Claus and making an in-order-or-receipt list of pre-orders to fill, and 20,000 people could cancel if they didn't like the first impressions/reviews.
But when Google knowingly and actively prevents 90%+ of people from forking over money who are otherwise willing customers *and* embargoes actual reviews...it is just stupid.
The Verge was able to use the camera and talk about it, albeit briefly. I guess the rules same don't apply to everyone?
I noticed a flood of hands on impressions posted right when the N6 was available for pre-order so I assume the first embargo was lifted on Wed AM. Big question is - When is the 2nd embargo lifted??
wrinklefree said:
We don't care what the box looks like and what's in it. Also we've seen plenty of Lollipop walk-though videos, we don't need another one.
Here's what we DO care about:
A good description of the color, especially the midnight blue model
What the backing material feels like. References to other materials would be helpful
For god sakes, play a youtube video or music so you can report back on how the FF speakers perform. Maybe a comparision to HTC's boom sound?
Please USE the camera in your videos so we can see how fast the autofocus and shooter is.
That is all. End of rant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) not sure if color is the easiest thing to describe... since what might look good to one person might not look good to the person sitting next to them.
2) Pretty sure i've seen hands-on videos and write-ups that mention it having a soft-touch plastic back.... but then again, some say it's more of a slippery plastic... so who knows. Probably all depends on what they consider "soft-touch".
3) So... you want them to record a video of how dual front-facing speakers perform, with a camera that more than likely only has a single microphone to begin with? How would that help with trying to see how good it sounds? If anything, it'll sound WORSE than it would in person.
4) Again... another thing i'm pretty sure i've seen in a video... but can't seem to find right now.
Skripka said:
It would be one thing if Google were making like Santa Claus and making an in-order-or-receipt list of pre-orders to fill, and 20,000 people could cancel if they didn't like the first impressions/reviews.
But when Google knowingly and actively prevents 90%+ of people from forking over money who are otherwise willing customers *and* embargoes actual reviews...it is just stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my first time buying a nexus phone and so hyped about it by being introduced to aosp on my oneplus one, this nexus is what i wanted in a phone and though because it's a nexus that it would be more hyped up by google but they seem to think differently. Sstayed up all night and didnt get much work done the next moring trying to pre order but we all know how that went. I did however preorder with expansys as a backup. I have watched the unboxing videos some much just to get a fix until i can get it. Come on google take my damn money already.
elementaldragon said:
1) not sure if color is the easiest thing to describe... since what might look good to one person might not look good to the person sitting next to them.
2) Pretty sure i've seen hands-on videos and write-ups that mention it having a soft-touch plastic back.... but then again, some say it's more of a slippery plastic... so who knows. Probably all depends on what they consider "soft-touch".
3) So... you want them to record a video of how dual front-facing speakers perform, with a camera that more than likely only has a single microphone to begin with? How would that help with trying to see how good it sounds? If anything, it'll sound WORSE than it would in person.
4) Again... another thing i'm pretty sure i've seen in a video... but can't seem to find right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Not looking for subjective reviews on the color, but rather a comparison to perhaps another smartphone with the same hue (if possible)
2) I remember reading reviews of the while N5 when it first launched. Several people compared the texture to that of the Mac keyboard which I found spot on.
3) Obviously we won't be able to hear the speakers from our perspective. Looking to get initial feedback (from the reviewer) on the volume and clarity of the speakers which are important to a lot of us. I find the speaker in the N5 to be lacking.
OP chill out. Google has chosen to give people phones to check out and get an overall feel of the device. Hardware is final, software is not. Hence the reason they dont want people throwing up reviews and knocking Lollipop with unpolished software. Obviously there will be a OTA pushed out the day before the Embargo is lifted. Then you will get more full reviews then you can shake your stick at. Patience!!
This needed a thread... Really?
Think you're getting confused with unboxing videos and review videos.
Two completely different types of videos.. hence the name
FYI - Android police just posted an initial impressions piece that addressed a lot of my questions. Kudos to them!
http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/1...-googles-nexus-6-really-big-really-beautiful/
2nd embargo lifted Nov. 12th? http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrymagid/2014/11/01/hands-on-with-googles-nexus-6/
Skripka said:
I seriously don't understand the "embargo" on certain topics.
What, is discussing details about performance going to stop people from buying the device? Oh! That is right...you can't buy the device or even pre-order it until lord (Google) knows when. So Google is intentionally stopping people from buying their device AND stopping people from talking about it...for no reason whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact that many people will jump to a conclusion and potentially not buy a device if a reviewer has something bad to say about a bug or something similar without giving Google a chance to fix it.
Fairly certain that the last bullet point is specifically restricted by Google's NDA agreements, as well as more detailed reviews. Gotta wait till Nov 12 before we can get our fill of stuff
Sent from my SM-G900T using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Hi,
I noticed a trend with Google products lately. Most of them get reviewed running Pre-Release software. This leads most websites to rank both the software and the hardware down. Weeks or months from now, regular customers interested in the product might get disencouraged to buy it because of the reviews.
Why does Google lift the embargo at the same time it releases the final software build? Why not lift the reviews embargo days after the final build so that the product can get better reviews? I saw this with Nexus 9, Nexus Player, and now Nexus 6!
androidi10 said:
Hi,
I noticed a trend with Google products lately. Most of them get reviewed running Pre-Release software. This leads most websites to rank both the software and the hardware down. Weeks or months from now, regular customers interested in the product might get disencouraged to buy it because of the reviews.
Why does Google lift the embargo at the same time it releases the final software build? Why not lift the reviews embargo days after the final build so that the product can get better reviews? I saw this with Nexus 9, Nexus Player, and now Nexus 6!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's Google's problem, and honestly software doesn't make that much of a difference. It's not going to fix the screen panel quality, slow flash, encryption etc. The biggest possible improvement will be to the camera I think.
Well wait for MKBHD review, he posted his nexus 6 ota update then said time to make a review, so his will be with the ota installed.
The problem I see with this is that Google hurts its product in the reviews with this approach. Some people might not buy the phone because of some software issues that were mentioned in the reviews but fixed one day later in a software update. It also hurts the image of Android when every new Google product has "Software Bugs" in its reviews.
ECrispy said:
It's Google's problem, and honestly software doesn't make that much of a difference. It's not going to fix the screen panel quality, slow flash, encryption etc. The biggest possible improvement will be to the camera I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pretty sure you can fix all of that with software.
Have a look at the Nexus 5 roms/ mods/ kernels..
Agreed that this is annoying. Most of these reviews state "there was a software update last night but I have not received it yet".
I honestly hope to see another wave of reviews in a week or so that review it based on the new firmware.
Because it allows fan boys to hold on to some hope that this phone won't be absolute garbage.
ECrispy said:
It's Google's problem, and honestly software doesn't make that much of a difference. It's not going to fix the screen panel quality, slow flash, encryption etc. The biggest possible improvement will be to the camera I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Software means just about everything
I'm still waiting on the software update as well which i mentioned in the review. But from using the Nexus 6 thus far I still rather enjoy the device. i hope this OTA fixes some hiccups though... *patiently waiting*
JMillion said:
I'm still waiting on the software update as well which i mentioned in the review. But from using the Nexus 6 thus far I still rather enjoy the device. i hope this OTA fixes some hiccups though... *patiently waiting*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are some notable hiccups that you've run into?
bigf00t said:
Because it allows fan boys to hold on to some hope that this phone won't be absolute garbage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol exactly what I was thinking. But I will wait on MKBHD to drop his review and wait for some in store play time. I trust him because his taste and gripes usually tend to align with mine.
msal said:
What are some notable hiccups that you've run into?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3rd party Apps not optimized for lollipop. Some work, some not, some issues. Occasional crashing.
Battery could be better. Hoping future updates will make these fixes.
If anything read my review too.
bigf00t said:
Because it allows fan boys to hold on to some hope that this phone won't be absolute garbage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hold on to some hope that trolls will be gone from this forum within a week.
How soon until the major blogs/news outlets will start posting their reviews of these units? I can't wait to read all about the 6P, especially about the camera and battery.
The phone isn't available!
Most bloggers /reviewers don't get a review unit until it's available for sale, also most have to buy the phone themselves.
Also any good reviewer will use the phone for a week or two so they can actually give you a review, not just impressions, which we've seen a ton of.
Patience.
probably looking at another 10 days or so before we see them start pouring in.
Big Cam said:
The phone isn't available!
Most bloggers /reviewers don't get a review unit until it's available for sale, also most have to buy the phone themselves.
Also any good reviewer will use the phone for a week or two so they can actually give you a review, not just impressions, which we've seen a ton of.
Patience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true at all.... Maybe top ten or so get a free unit (can be 5, or 20 but several do) to test week before the event even started. That's how dxomark grade the camera. Was the same for moto xpe. I assume one week to see reviews.... When actual units start shipping, we will see plenty more "blogger" reviews who had to wait like anyone else
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Bigal77 said:
Not true at all.... Maybe top ten or so get a free unit (can be 5, or 20 but several do) to test week before the event even started. That's how dxomark grade the camera. Was the same for moto xpe. I assume one week to see reviews.... When actual units start shipping, we will see plenty more "blogger" reviews who had to wait like anyone else
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand in some cases this is the case but with this reveal it was pretty clear that the popular bloggers/reviewers did not have advance notice or time with the phone, as they all live blogged it and told us as they found out about it, many of them were even surprised at certain features. I heard about 5 times how they found pout at the press event that the camera hump wasn't as big as the leaked pictures led them to believe.
Google really wanted to keep the wraps on this and the fact that there are no reviews out currently support this fully. I'm not saying you are wrong, but in this particular phone release, I'm pretty confident saying no one got early press review units.
Now I'm not saying that a handful didn't get one after the event, but we now need to give them time to actually use it, before they review it.
---------- Post added at 01:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------
vicatin said:
probably looking at another 10 days or so before we see them start pouring in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yes, this guy!!
I was super impatient waiting for the OPT and Moto X Pure reviews.
Most probably next week like everyone else has mentioned.
You would want them to use the phone for at least a week before they get a good review.
Big Cam said:
The phone isn't available!
Most bloggers /reviewers don't get a review unit until it's available for sale, also most have to buy the phone themselves.
Also any good reviewer will use the phone for a week or two so they can actually give you a review, not just impressions, which we've seen a ton of.
Patience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
also - we'll likely see a flood of "unboxing" reviews/posts before anything substantial hits the streets. i've grown to hate the unboxing vids. takes the magic out of the whole process. plus teh "reviews" are garbage.
You just have to stick with the good reviews and kind of ignore the people that either crap on anything not X or glow over everything and anything that cross their desk. I wouldn't expect to see review for 2 more weeks at least.
can't wait for the reviews, i want to know about any overheating issues and probably battery. really hyped about the idle battery life.
Wish it will live up to expectations~
have all of the 810's overheating issues been strictly related to recording 4k video?
640k said:
also - we'll likely see a flood of "unboxing" reviews/posts before anything substantial hits the streets. i've grown to hate the unboxing vids. takes the magic out of the whole process. plus teh "reviews" are garbage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree unboxing's take the magic away, but I'm so impatient, I'll still watch it. It helps me get excited again, while I wait through the ridiculously long wait period Google has provided us.
The only reviewer I pretty much trust is MKBHD.
Big Cam said:
I agree unboxing's take the magic away, but I'm so impatient, I'll still watch it. It helps me get excited again, while I wait through the ridiculously long wait period Google has provided us.
The only reviewer I pretty much trust is MKBHD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 month isn't long at all. That's actually a really quick turn around. It used to be 4-6 months.
Erica Griffin`s reviews are also very good and in-depth.
She's a bit too obsessed with displays though!
digitaldr said:
She's a bit too obsessed with displays though!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isnt everyone lol.
But yeah I dont really like her reviews in general tbh.
check mobilesyrup
http://mobilesyrup.com/2015/10/08/nexus-6p-hands-on/
a recent hands on ---
He says look for full review in the coming days. So expect them to start pouring in soon. BTW this site does EXCELLENT reviews,
another decent hands on thats very recent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DYHdYMKIXI
Bigal77 said:
check mobilesyrup
http://mobilesyrup.com/2015/10/08/nexus-6p-hands-on/
a recent hands on ---
He says look for full review in the coming days. So expect them to start pouring in soon. BTW this site does EXCELLENT reviews,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's pretty cool review! I'm sure there's more to come...
Is root going to be possible for this phone?
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
gk1984 said:
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for answering I happy to hear it I heard this is great now except for the camera app.
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
gk1984 said:
Once kernel source is released, it's very likely. Essential said they'd be releasing that soon in their AMA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep in mind, Essential said repeatedly, week after week, while the phone was delayed 90 days beyond when they first said it would be released, that it would be "coming soon."
And they said recently that Oreo would come in the next couple months, which they described as "soon."
And the since it went up in May the website has said that the Stellar Grey and Ocean Depths colors would be "available soon." Even though in the AMA they admitted that they had no idea when those colors would be availalbe and in fact they don't even know how to get ceramic to be those colors, with their attempts so far failing (in other words, they said "available soon" for something they don't actually know how to make).
So Essential's idea of "soon" tends to be months and/or never. And, really, Essential seems to just say "soon" whenever anything is not ready, but they don't want people to go away, so instead they say "soon" to the point of meaninglessness, because they are unable to be honest about what's really going on.
I'm not saying they won't release the kernel source. I'm just saying their promises about when something might happen are empty and "soon" is just used as a delaying tactic.
cb474 said:
Keep in mind, Essential said repeatedly, week after week, while the phone was delayed 90 days beyond when they first said it would be released, that it would be "coming soon."
And they said recently that Oreo would come in the next couple months, which they described as "soon."
And the since it went up in May the website has said that the Stellar Grey and Ocean Depths colors would be "available soon." Even though in the AMA they admitted that they had no idea when those colors would be availalbe and in fact they don't even know how to get ceramic to be those colors, with their attempts so far failing (in other words, they said "available soon" for something they don't actually know how to make).
So Essential's idea of "soon" tends to be months and/or never. And, really, Essential seems to just say "soon" whenever anything is not ready, but they don't want people to go away, so instead they say "soon" to the point of meaninglessness, because they are unable to be honest about what's really going on.
I'm not saying they won't release the kernel source. I'm just saying their promises about when something might happen are empty and "soon" is just used as a delaying tactic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The AMA said "a couple days" so it might be sooner than "soon"
I guess expected to much because Andy Rubin was involved. The whole internet is saying essential was released too soon, that they should have worked out all the bugs first.
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
canynballa said:
I guess expected to much because Andy Rubin was involved. The whole internet is saying essential was released too soon, that they should have worked out all the bugs first.
Sent from my SM-G950U using XDA-Developers Legacy app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really was. That and them being severely understaffed, not a good combination.
What really bugs me is releasing kernel is a matter of a clicking a button and they have yet to click that upload button. Very frustrating. I have tried reaching out to them on Facebook and Twitter but there has been zero word from essential or Andy since the AMA. Their silence is troubling
I had the phone and really like the build quality.
What disappointed me was that no source released, so no customs recovery.
No image so you could return the phone back to stock.
No cases.
I sent it back and will see what V2 looks like.
hellot1M said:
What really bugs me is releasing kernel is a matter of a clicking a button and they have yet to click that upload button. Very frustrating. I have tried reaching out to them on Facebook and Twitter but there has been zero word from essential or Andy since the AMA. Their silence is troubling
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not Android technical but wasn't there mention of proprietary assets mingled it and would need to be removed? Also read somewhere that OnePlus released theirs but it was still hard to create kernels because of the way they released the source. I think it was someone on the AMA thread.
*edit*
C&P from the AMA below. Doesn't specifically mention kernel....
[–]AmirZ 8 points 11 days ago
So, ROM development. Can you commit to releasing ALL of your framework sources like Google does with AOSP and Nexus? One frustration with OnePlus is that their released sources are missing parts and thus work a lot worse than their real OS (OxygenOS).
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[–]EssentialOfficial 13 points 11 days ago
This actually turns out to be really hard technically. We're going to try to do more and more of this over time but ensuring you separate out any close source proprietary bits from the rest, but that things still work well is a big challenge. -Rebecca
flakko86 said:
The AMA said "a couple days" so it might be sooner than "soon"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
gqukyo said:
I'm not Android technical but wasn't there mention of proprietary assets mingled it and would need to be removed? Also read somewhere that OnePlus released theirs but it was still hard to create kernels because of the way they released the source. I think it was someone on the AMA thread.
*edit*
C&P from the AMA below. Doesn't specifically mention kernel....
[–]AmirZ 8 points 11 days ago
So, ROM development. Can you commit to releasing ALL of your framework sources like Google does with AOSP and Nexus? One frustration with OnePlus is that their released sources are missing parts and thus work a lot worse than their real OS (OxygenOS).
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[–]EssentialOfficial 13 points 11 days ago
This actually turns out to be really hard technically. We're going to try to do more and more of this over time but ensuring you separate out any close source proprietary bits from the rest, but that things still work well is a big challenge. -Rebecca
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Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
cb474 said:
Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
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Not good.
cb474 said:
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
Yes, I remember this. I was thinking when I first read that: Why don't they just open source the proprietary parts and problem solved? Rubin claimed this company is all about open source. That's part of his legacy with Android. He made a big point about how they are even open sourcing the hardware for module development. In fact, since they claimed the phone runs entirely stock Android I was suprised there even are proprietary parts. So to me rather than being an explanation, that was another example of the discrepancy between Essential's claims about what kind of company it is and the reality of the sort of company it really is.
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Gotta have that special sauce... lol
cb474 said:
Looking at it, it actually says, " We'll be releasing our kernel and factory images in the next few days." So, it says, "the next few days." And yet that was eleven days ago.
Another example of playing fast and loose with what I think anybody's idea of "few days" would be. Hopefully it will come soon. My point is only that people should not place much faith in Essential's statements about timing. They have only made promises and failed to keep them, just about without exception. It is not a good track record and part of why after my initial hopes and excitement about Essential, I now view them as an "essentially" dishonest company whose intentions are much less honorable than they claim.
This would all be more or less par for the course, for a big corporation spouting empty PR. But Andy Rubin, when he first introduced the phone, did this whole song and dance about how they were going to be a different sort of consumer friendly company. I no longer believe that at all. I no longer even believe that Rubin believed it when he said it. I think it was PR and nothing more.
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Lol well to look at it in a more positive light, I think the issue is he has a tendency to over promise and leave use twiddling our thumbs. Considering they are a relatively new company and are severely understaffed, the overpromising can be forgiven. However, when missing the said dates, there is barely any follow-up as to why the dates were missed leading to major concern for the customers. I think saying anything is better than silence. Like at least tell us that such and such update promised on such and such date has been moved.
On the plus side, during the AMA, VZW cert was promised and it was certified on the date promised. The recent security patch was released with bug fixes within a day of the Pixel. They have definitely improved thier presence on reddit which I think is a huge plus. They also have said on Twitter a couple hours ago that they are currently working on a Dev page for their website.
https://twitter.com/essential/status/912424863951810560
So calling them dishonest or not honorable or saying they aren't customer friendly I think is a bit of a stretch. I think they are still super swamped after getting knocked down from the initial release and are trying their darndest to get back on their feet so they can stay in the fight. Yes, I am giving them the benefit of a doubt but I think once Essential gets over this initial launch hurdle, promised timings will be a little more "on time" than they currently are.
flakko86 said:
Lol well to look at it in a more positive light, I think the issue is he has a tendency to over promise and leave use twiddling our thumbs. Considering they are a relatively new company and are severely understaffed, the overpromising can be forgiven. However, when missing the said dates, there is barely any follow-up as to why the dates were missed leading to major concern for the customers. I think saying anything is better than silence. Like at least tell us that such and such update promised on such and such date has been moved.
On the plus side, during the AMA, VZW cert was promised and it was certified on the date promised. The recent security patch was released with bug fixes within a day of the Pixel. They have definitely improved thier presence on reddit which I think is a huge plus. They also have said on Twitter a couple hours ago that they are currently working on a Dev page for their website.
https://twitter.com/essential/status/912424863951810560
So calling them dishonest or not honorable or saying they aren't customer friendly I think is a bit of a stretch. I think they are still super swamped after getting knocked down from the initial release and are trying their darndest to get back on their feet so they can stay in the fight. Yes, I am giving them the benefit of a doubt but I think once Essential gets over this initial launch hurdle, promised timings will be a little more "on time" than they currently are.
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That is a more generous way to look at it.
It's true the Verizon thing is the one thing I'm aware of where they made a promise about when something would happen and did it. I didn't say they never kept their promises. I said they have simply failed to keep them just about without exception. They didn't really promise a specific time on the security updates, as far as I'm aware, but it is good that they did it right away. Anyway, there have been so many promises they have not kept that I'm underwhelmed by the one instance where they did.
But, for me, the thing really is they have been called out repeatedly on tech sites and even in the AMA about their promises and not keeping them. Instead of owning up to that, they just do it again. They have been called out even more on how bad the camera is, especially in low light, and how it's inferior hardware can never live up to the hype. And yet to this day their website still says: "That’s why we put so much effort into developing one of the world’s best phone cameras." And: "This results in stunning images that are rich in color and detail, even in low light." (CNET critized them for keeping this on their website.) The camera was also brought up in the AMA. Rubin's response was hand waving jibberish about "computational photography," which is a technical term for bull**** (isn't, after all, all digital photography "computational"). Rubin also said, " We are pretty happy with the hardware design of the camera," even though the inferior sensors they are using was public knowledge by then. Rubin as recently as four days ago claimed in Time Magazine (http://time.com/4950677/andy-rubin-essential-interview/) that the reviewers received phones with incomplete camera software and that caused the problems, but there have been subsequent updates. This was long after the reviews had been out, the updates had been issued, and all the reviewers said it made little to no difference. This is not honesty. That is engaging knowningly in PR bull and trying to obfuscate something.
It's one thing to overpromise. It's another thing to overpromise and when you are called out on it double down on the overpromising. Further, there is zero way that the engineers within the company who worked on the camera didn't know that they were using sensors that are not as good as the best camera phones, so they knowingly claimed to make "one of the world's best phone cameras" when they knew that couldn't be true. They released the phone with that camera anyway, because there was nothing (much) more to be done.
Lastly, yes they are small and overworked. That seems clear. But even here, in promotional events, over and over, they have hyped the fact that being small makes them more effective and efficient, because there are not a lot of layers of bureaucracy to go through to make decisions and get things done. Yet clearly, being small in Essential's case means there are a lot of things they don't have time to do that well (and may never have time). And they have never said, oh, we're small, be patient. They have said over and over, being small makes us better. So if they weren't out there promoting the benefits of being small in contradiction to the reality, it would be easier to forgive them on this account.
When you add it all up, I just don't buy that it comes down to a simple tendency to overpromise. As they say, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I think they are being knowingly dishonest or, at best, knowingly engaging in PR misdirection to try to mislead people about problems with the phone and company.
cb474 said:
That is a more generous way to look at it.
It's true the Verizon thing is the one thing I'm aware of where they made a promise about when something would happen and did it. I didn't say they never kept their promises. I said they have simply failed to keep them just about without exception. They didn't really promise a specific time on the security updates, as far as I'm aware, but it is good that they did it right away. Anyway, there have been so many promises they have not kept that I'm underwhelmed by the one instance where they did.
But, for me, the thing really is they have been called out repeatedly on tech sites and even in the AMA about their promises and not keeping them. Instead of owning up to that, they just do it again. They have been called out even more on how bad the camera is, especially in low light, and how it's inferior hardware can never live up to the hype. And yet to this day their website still says: "That’s why we put so much effort into developing one of the world’s best phone cameras." And: "This results in stunning images that are rich in color and detail, even in low light." (CNET critized them for keeping this on their website.) The camera was also brought up in the AMA. Rubin's response was hand waving jibberish about "computational photography," which is a technical term for bull**** (isn't, after all, all digital photography "computational"). Rubin also said, " We are pretty happy with the hardware design of the camera," even though the inferior sensors they are using was public knowledge by then. Rubin as recently as four days ago claimed in Time Magazine (http://time.com/4950677/andy-rubin-essential-interview/) that the reviewers received phones with incomplete camera software and that caused the problems, but there have been subsequent updates. This was long after the reviews had been out, the updates had been issued, and all the reviewers said it made little to no difference. This is not honesty. That is engaging knowningly in PR bull and trying to obfuscate something.
It's one thing to overpromise. It's another thing to overpromise and when you are called out on it double down on the overpromising. Further, there is zero way that the engineers within the company who worked on the camera didn't know that they were using sensors that are not as good as the best camera phones, so they knowingly claimed to make "one of the world's best phone cameras" when they knew that couldn't be true. They released the phone with that camera anyway, because there was nothing (much) more to be done.
Lastly, yes they are small and overworked. That seems clear. But even here, in promotional events, over and over, they have hyped the fact that being small makes them more effective and efficient, because there are not a lot of layers of bureaucracy to go through to make decisions and get things done. Yet clearly, being small in Essential's case means there are a lot of things they don't have time to do that well (and may never have time). And they have never said, oh, we're small, be patient. They have said over and over, being small makes us better. So if they weren't out there promoting the benefits of being small in contradiction to the reality, it would be easier to forgive them on this account.
When you add it all up, I just don't buy that it comes down to a simple tendency to overpromise. As they say, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I think they are being knowingly dishonest or, at best, knowingly engaging in PR misdirection to try to mislead people about problems with the phone and company.
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I remember reading somewhere that someone messaged customer service and the rep said they would try to release the patches within two weeks of google's release.
I agree with you about the camera and how they are handling it. I think the AMA question should have been worded a bit more differently like "You claim to have one if the best cameras in the world but you are using a 2 year old sensor that is known to have problems with capturing images in low light. Other competitors at this price range such as the Google Pixel and the Samsung Galaxy S8 have far superior sensors. Can you really optimize the software that much to compete with them?". Something like that. Anyways, I forgot which reviewer stated it but there's a lot of hubris coming out of this company and I think that's what's causing them to have that "do no wrong" attitude, and Im not a big fan of it.
As for them being a small company, while the downside is not being able to handle handle thousands of orders and customers efficiently especially with a rushed buggy product (of course they will never admit that cuz hubris), im finding more recently that they are starting to frequent Reddit more often and I was assured when I sent the big bug report out, which was responded to in less than a day, that the company monitors the essential subreddit religiously and the software team is and will be referencing that thread. They aren't wrong in their statement about them being a smaller company. They just gotta shoot the issues and suggestions straight to the top making decisions a lot more efficient than a larger company. All I'm saying is let the dust settle from the launch and see how they deal with it the upcoming months
Maybe they'll do better the second time around when they make another phone.
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That's how OnePlus was.... their OPO launch was pretty horrible. They're doing much better now. Still with some hiccups but definitely much better than when they launched their first phone.
canynballa said:
Maybe they'll do better the second time around when they make another phone.
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Yes, I agree, what will really be telling will be if they incorporate any of the criticisms of the Ph-1 into the Ph-2 (assuming there is a Ph-2).
I received this reply this morning. No dates, but it sounds encouraging.
Erich T (Essential Products)
Sep 27, 9:32 AM MST
Hi Mark,
Thank you for reaching out.
We are going to support the 3rd party developer community by releasing our kernel and factory images. These will be made available soon, but I don't have a confirmed date at this time.
I don't know at this point where they will be uploaded to, but please stay tuned to Essential.com, and our social media channels for announcements.
If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to reach back out to us. Have a great day!
Sincerely,
Erich
Essential Customer Experience Team