Related
Rang my carphone warehouse earlier today (was expected 20th release date) , they have no stock, not sure when they just have the dummy. He checked direct stock to get an idea of how long it would be but he said CW had no stock what so ever.....at an estimate he said two weeks.
He said lots of people asking about the phone, and all SE keep doing is putting the release back...
I think SE must be having serious issues with this phone if they keep putting it back unannounced to the general public, worries me what the final version will be like.
I mean really SE get your act together, you gave the official release date as the 30th Septemeber, coming up to a month later and we're still waiting for when we can get our hands on this with no guarentee it will be the next two weeks. Really poor service if you ask me.
My contract is up on the 25th and I can't afford to wait any longer, so I'm now going to go order a touch diamond now on a 12 month contract (which i really like anyway)....So I hate to be a forum moaner, and just keep moaning and b***ng but SE you have lost your business from me unfortunately. I am aware I am just a number to you, and one in a million wanting this phone is nothing. But you see there is your problem, stop being so corporate and get more public and have better communication with your dealers and the general public.
Anyway 12 months is a short contract length, maybe by this time next year the Xperia will be released (I will more than likely still have to wait even then).....
I really am gutted I can't get one, but oh well the Diamond will do me mighty fine...
I know how you feel and sorry to see you be forced to another device but considering your circumstances, it's completely understandable.
The Touch Diamond is no slouch so enjoy it for what it's worth. As you said, I just wish SE would communicate the situation better with the die-hard customers. Business and marketing certainly can burst a products bubble as it's a fine line between hype and disappointment but it this case I think a formal press release coming clean on the situation might save some people from jumping ship.
Again, sorry to see another person forced away. Regardless, enjoy your new toy!
It's a shame really, as I was almost forced to do the same thing. My contract ran out a few days since.
Luckily enough i managed to get hold of a working xperia and im quite happy now until the retail version is out, when ill sell my modded proto and buy the retail version.
I agree totally with this thread. I was in the same situation, I simply loved this phone and SE would have now a totally new person, because I never owned a SE phone in my life and this would have been the first I liked, no, I loved! But I have to wait way to long... Now, ok I'm still waiting, but I'm waiting for the Touch HD, I think this phone will be available at the beginning of November here in Germany and although if the X1 would be available, too, sorry, I'm just very, very upset because of SEs delay, so I wont buy it. I know, I'm very emotional, but thats my way and if they dissapoint me soooo much, then I will choose the competitor, who is really great by the way Sony, you lost one person more, so in this thread already two! Shame on you!
Hang on guys, the SE X1 is definitely coming, so it's a only a matter of roundabout a view days... or whatever...
Of course you can buy some alternative crappy plastic thingies by now or you wait for the real thing of awesomeness - for me the choice is easy.
If it takes 2 more weeks then okay, if it takes a view weeks more, than it's still okay. The thing is: I have no alternative, all the rest on the market is not really worth a comparison, at least if it comes to my requirements.
So I really want this phone.
What I want hasn't been made I'd like a phone with a PXA930 800mhz processor with a Imageon Z460 3D graphics core (or equavalent), 256+ ram, and a hardware keyboard with windows 6.1 mobile.
Kloc said:
What I want hasn't been made I'd like a phone with a Xscale 800mhz processor with a Imageon Z460 3D graphics core (or equavalent), 256+ ram, and a hardware keyboard with windows 6.1 mobile.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, but imaginary devices take even longer for release - better focus on one that has been at least announced
foo said:
Yeah, but imaginary devices take even longer for release - better focus on one that has been at least announced
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Click to collapse
Very true. Just can't wait till they start offering High Performance phones like they do with Laptops/Desktops now a days. So you can go to a website and add what processor,case, ram, etc you want in your device and what OS you want and what bands you want and they ship it to you.
i must admit i was gung ho for the xperia and thru being starved of information i started reading about the HD. Now i've decided to wait until i can see them both but i'm pretty much in the Touch HD camp at the moment. Shame because this would have been my first keyboard phone. I'll either use my mobile or a BT keyboard when at work/desk/sat around!
Hi,
I previously used the Wizard and really have to say I miss Windows Mobile meanwhile. So when I first heard about the HD I really was excited as it seemed to be the ideal gadget. Although bigger than most phones not too big, a wonderful screen and so on.
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen, but after all this would have been a minor issue. However meanwhile I am almost convinced I will not get an HD due to all the problems people reported about it.
I do not want to spend EUR 600 for something which is chipping after two days of careful usage. Similarly I am not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself. Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area) do not look very well for such a device.
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.
I bought HTC's "flagship" phone last year, the Tytn II, and all I can say is the forum here seems very reminiscent of the Kaiser forum back then - lots of people wanting to believe they've paid top dollar for the "ultimate" phone, while so many more people report problem after problem. Dissapointing video and multimedia, questionable build quality, freezing, issues with the GPS - all very familiar.
I believe HTC is trading on a reputation for quality which it no longer deserves. There's no question it's made a number of excellent devices in the past, but I don't believe it's carried that tradition on in the last year or so - their Qualcomm powered devices in particular (like the Tytn II onwards) have generally dissapointed. There's the famous driver issue of course, which I believe still affects the HD to some extent (it has some drivers, but they don't appear to be very good), but moreover the general performance of these chips just doesn't seem to match those used in previous generations, like the original Tytn.
There'll be the usual attempts to shore up HTC's unfinished efforts here with cooked ROMs for the HD soon appearing, just as they did for the Tytn II, but as before there's only so much the devs here can do without anything much to go on - they lack the raw materials in the form of drivers etc themselves. I've tried various ROMs for the Kaiser, none of them truly satisfied, and none of them genuinely improved performance IMO. It can take several months for any real progress to be made, by which time both you and the devs involved will be starting to look for the next phone anyway.
MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
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Click to collapse
..........haha
Maybe you should learn to give helpful replies respectively how to behave in a community MAK.
The Hd is my first HTC phone, so I haven't been spoiled by their previous efforts. Mine hasn't chipped and it hasn't frozen once. I'm really enjoying the phone, although it takes some tinkering to get the most out of it obviously - not perhaps a phone for the masses.
The screen looks great, but the responsiveness of the screen is nothing like (ie not as good as) the iphone of course.
Petrov.
My last five phones have all been HTC devices. I started with the SPV M500 then a Blue Angel, Universal, TyTN II and I have recently moved on to a HD. I would just like to redress the balance somewhat.
I have had no quality or reliability issues since my first HTC device, the SPV M500 nor have I had with the HD (2 weeks). All my phones have been worked hard as business devices and I consider that I have always got a very good return on my investment in them.
HTC have been at the leading edge of Windows Mobile device development and have continuously raised the bar with each new device. The HD is a fine example of this. The technology media were salivating at the thought of this device in the weeks and months leading up to its release and judging by the content of the majority of reviews they have not been disappointed. I still marvel at how good this device is and have no doubt will continue to improve as the customized ROMs start to kick in.
There is always a price to pay for being an early adopter and that price is having to accept that there will always be a relatively small amount of development issues in the early days after a product has been released (and we are very much still in the early phase of the HDs life-cycle). There has to be a trade off on the part of the manufacturer in terms of time spent testing a device prior to release and getting a device to market before the technology is overtaken by developments.
It's a fact that people who are happy and content with their devices are a lot less likely to post messages on forums stating this than those with a gripe. This should be borne in mind when weighing up opinions based on forum postings.
MAK11 said:
You guys need some ***** in your lifes. Get out more..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, the abuse is pretty old too, there's plenty of that in the Kaiser section. It's not easy to take the ***** highground on one of the geekiest forums on earth, but if you've just been jipped on a disappointing phone and someone's pointing out your mistake, I guess it's natural to try.
drzoid said:
My first disappointment came when I realised HTC hadnt used a capacitive screen,
chipping after two days of careful usage.
not too fond of "constant" freezes of the system itself.
Also the mentioned performance issues (mostly in the multimedia related area).
All this and a few other smaller things along with the non-capacitive screen made me really reconsider my purchase. I am aware that many do not experience these problems, but there are far too many such complaints for me to really risk entering the game.
I am really disappointed as it seemed like a perfect phone initially. At the moment I am waiting for the Asus P565 or the Glaxy7 respectively for the next generation of the M8.
Would you say my concerns are valid? Somehow it seems many are not paid testers but actually paying ones.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
Vast majority of the users are extremely satisfied with the device, this is a fact.
So, you need to make your own decision. If you believe there is a device more suited to your need, you should wait for it.
I do not think you're going to find too many people agreeing with your conclusion here though.
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
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Click to collapse
Exactly.
In fact, we already have a few polls specifically for those and the results are plain for all to see.
Thanks Petrov and Tony. As I mentioned I know there are many who never experienced the stated problems, but dont you think the amount of people reporting the same problems over and over again (chipping and freezing in particular) hasnt reached already a number which might indicate an actual problem in the manufacturing process?
eaglesteve said:
so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
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To be honest, at the moment I am definitely not willing to take the risk. This might change but currently all those reports about the mentioned issues do not convince me unfortunately.
eaglesteve said:
On the other hand, if you go to the Asus or iPhone forums, you may find many people supporting your views, but not on this forum.
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Click to collapse
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
As to the three I mentioned they are actually Windows Mobile phone, although from another manufacturer. I just mentioned they would very interesting alternatives.
patp said:
People are more likely to come forward with problems than if they have no issues. Why not start a poll, you might find that the majority are happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But then where does the chipping and freezing come from?
eaglesteve said:
Vast majority of the users here do not experience any of the problems you mentioned if you look at the polls conducted. Very small percentage of users do experience it, so you must decide if the risk is worth taking.
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Click to collapse
Hmm. 38% have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than 25%): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?
drzoid said:
Where does the Apple forum come from? I did not even mentioned this phone.
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Click to collapse
No, this isn't directed at you.
Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different. I agree that this is not the perfect phone and I know that one will never be created.. but if you take all the phones on the market at the moment (with all there faults) then HTC HD is amongs the top. I rarely have freezes and no scratches etc. so for me I am happy with my purchase. I also look forward to improvement that the talented developers in these forum will offer now and in the near future.
prpmlp said:
Please bear in mind when reading reviews that everyone needs and expectations are different.
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Click to collapse
True, but not true in terms of chipping and freezing. Nobody expects those .
Boinng said:
Hmm. More than half have scratches already: http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1122
More than 60% suffer hangs ("frequent" hangs for more than a quarter): http://forum.xda-developers.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1111
Where is this very small percentage you speak of?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can choose to interpret the result anyway you want to suit your already made up conclusion.
Vast number of people give this device 7,8,9,10 rating out of 10.
Device hanging happens but it does not necessarily bother us. I see 8% of the people bothered by it. You see 60% of people "suffer" hangs. If that pleases you, by all means.
We're not going to get a perfect device today. What we have here is the best in existence for many people because it suits their needs best. Yes, it chips and peels to varying degree, but overall still pleased with it.
I'm with mrpetrov and tonyblack on this one...
(EDIT - sorry, and all others who replied in the same vein since I started typing!)
The HD is also my first HTC device, and also my first WM device too.
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
However, the media (and to a certain extent HTC too) have hyped this phone up - typically with 'iPhone killer' tags.
Whist I'm most definately NOT going to get into that tired old argument again , it is true that there is the potential for a large number of people to stumble across the HD as being (on the face of it) a viable alternative to the iPhone.
There will be a number of those people who are disappointed - out of the box, for a novice smartphone user who simply wants to phone / text / play music / browse the web and watch videos, then the HD probably isn't as polished, or easy to use.
These people won't care about, or will be too frightened to find somewhere like this place to work out how to fix and tweak.
So. Back to the point of the OP
Do I feel like a 'paying tester'?
A bit, I guess, yes.
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
Xbox 360 - early boxes overheat and get the Red Rings of Death.
iPhone - first versions come without 3G
My previous car (8th gen UK Civic) - early models had rear suspension springs installed up side down, fuel caps got stuck closed, built in hands free mic was rubbish.
These things all got fixed over time - but there is absolutely NO way that the manufacturers hadn't noticed them when the release deadline came around.
Someone somewhere said "right then. We HAVE to release this on such and such a date"
"But boss - we haven't finished testing yet!"
"Tough. The PS3 / iPhone 3G / BMW 1 series is out there, or about to be out there, and we need to get something on the market before we loose all our customers"
"But we'll loose them anyway if it blows up!"
"That's why they pay me the big bucks sonny - now hurry up and finish testing what you can"
*
Or something along those lines anyway
Long story (yes, apols for the length of this post!) short - if you want a solid, reliable product that is relatively bug free, then don't buy it on day 1.
* Please note that this conversation was added purely for the purpose of illusttration and probably didn't take place exactly as stated here, or indeed might not have taken place at all, especially at the offices of Microsoft, Honda or Apple. Or any other large corporate who might otherwise be thinking of trying to sue me!
TTDegs said:
I would most definately agree that it is not a phone for the masses, and this is probably equally true of HTC's previous devices.
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Click to collapse
I wasnt looking for such a phone but I expect reliability and the chipping and freezing stories let me think I cant have it from the HD.
TTDegs said:
But (and this is not necessarily a good thing, just the way things are), this is nearly always the case for early adopters now.
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Click to collapse
This is probably true, even though this doesnt make it more right.
HD compared to...
It would appear, that there seems to be a bit of both sides here.
Whilst it can be said, that some devices have really failed the user, and shortcuts appear to have been taken instead of holding back that little bit more.
The HTC club, allows certain content to be downloaded but not other due to your phone supplier. At the end of the day, small things like this tend to stick in the minds of their potential buyers.
My diamond's lasted 3 months (1 handset per month), HTC wouldnt assist, their advice buy a bigger battery, no problems reported. failure to reply to emails.
Every UK phone provider are aware of the battery short comings.
My provider actually realised the issue's with batteries, and put their hands in their pockets, bought a huge battery bank, the diamond ate it, like a beast and wanted more...
Orange UK, wrote the handset off, and agreed to supply & restart contract, due to the problems of the handset.
HTC did nothing!
I have had 4 htc devices - Orange branded M3100, best device, TyTnII, slipping, Diamond - total Avalanche, And now the HD, hope this is better, but only time will tell.
So after spending two days with the new official ROM I am dumbstruck that HTC let the Hero out the door as it was initially.
If you guys are like me you read online gadget blog reviews of new phones and you base your purchasing decisions to a lesser or greater extent on the reviews posted on these sites. The Hero received generally favorable reviews across the board BUT they were ALL tarred with the issue of the lagginess and unresponsiveness of the UI. Typical comments were "Sense UI is great but the hardware is not up to the task" etc. Hero was always compared to the iPhone and initially it was a more frustrating experience navigating the UI.
Clearly HTC have the ability to release software without these issues (new ROM proves that!) so why did they? I feel like they *really* hurt the sales and market potential of Hero and Sense UI by releasing an 'unfinished' product.
Can you imagine what Engadget's review (for instance) might have been had they reviewed a Hero with the new ROM?
I bought a Hero despite those reviews because I could see the potential in the handset but I know of others that steered clear because of the massive 'BUT...' at the end of most online reviews.
Its an opportunity missed I fear as the Hero is no longer a 'new' device.
I'm very glad that HTC have made my handset waaaaay nicer to use but seriously HTC... big, BIG ball drop!
Well... the Android phones are not really for the average Joes out there... they are for us techies and gadget lovers that love the freedom of doing cool and neat things with a phone.
We don't want to be tied up in an bondage game conducted/directed by a fruity company... and that is also why we choose a company we know.
Good enough?
You really thought we would feed a troll?
I honestly thought my post was a valid topic in a discussion forum about the HTC Hero.
@Thiesen
Wha?!? I really don't understand what your reply has got to do with my post. I think you've misunderstood the subject of my comments (perhaps if I had written in binary it might have been clearer?)
A broader acceptance of any platform is enabling and will benefit all users from 'techies' to 'average Joes'. Its not a matter of IF Android will become more mainstream but WHEN. I'm sorry if this makes you feel less special.
Troll indeed...
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry mate but i think thats total rubbish, you wouldn't buy a car knowing it didn't work and happily waste your own time feeding back problems to the manufacture to bring it up to speed. You wouldn't go out and buy a brand new state of the art car and happily put a new engine in it would you knowing the one you had paid for was crap?
AND might I ad, the research and R+D that is put in to these items is all reflected in the price of them. If HTC were giving these phones away for beta testing or what not then fine, but for a £400 handset, i totally agree with the comments made by ShiroEd.
I have had no end of nokia handsets where i have thought nokia have been guilty of the same issue, releasing what could be classed as unfinished products.
Personally, I always though the tech sites overplayed the whole lag issue on the original ROM. Yes it was there, but in my experience the net effect was quite limited and in my case it didn't really limit my ability to use the device. I'm not saying that the issue didn't (or doesn't! ) exist, just that in my opinion it was acceptable for a device of this nature (please no flames from those who disagree).
This may be because I didn't load my home screens with tons of apps, and one of the first things I did do with my Hero was to remove the People and Weather widgets, and set up Peep appropriately.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
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Click to collapse
That would presume that the iPhone isn't possessed of the same issues that the Hero is/was. Google "iphone lag" and you'll see loads of posts complaining about lag on the iPhone, even for the latest OS and the 3GS.
In addition, you will probably find that the *vast* majority of people who've purchased the Hero have never even heard of XDA-Developers, and probably will never install another ROM. We are in the minority, not the "average joe" when it comes to Hero ownership!
Whilst I disagree with the OP, I don't think he was trolling.
Regards,
Dave
Thiesen said:
We're early adopters. We like to find bugs. We like to find glitches. And we take great pride in reporting them back to the devs and makers.
The average Joes just want things to work. They are not early adopters. They should get an iPhone then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed with crash. Thats just rubbish.
Entirely valid topic, and entirely valid point. Nothing remotely troll like about it.
Regardless of the people on this site, the Hero is definitely aimed at the average consumer, as a direct competitor in the iPhone market. Hence the multimedia, Facebook, etc.
Rushed to market I agree, but no idea why... Could just be lack of QA.
Many of the bugs reported here and elsewhere have been met with surprise by HTC, as if they really didnt know they existed. Do they not have a QA department that actually uses the phones in real life? Takes them home, plays with them, uses them all day and night to report the bugs?
Still, the update is great, the phone is flying now. If they could just sort out the crappy contact photo issue, the album caching, and the horrendous lack of bluetooth file transfer, I'd be a happy chap..
I think they shipped out the preview models and early review versions to people in the hope that they'd ignore any slowdown. Most of the review sites seem to have mentioned this in some form, saying that it can be a bit laggy but the final release could be good and the software shows potential - obviously it was never fixed for the first release.
To be fair, we're all early testers for the new HTC interface. If the Hero sells well and works well for everyone then we'll obviously be getting the same thing in future phones.
I don't think HTC is expecting any particular phone to be the next killer phone, they're just working on improvements with each new model.
While it does not make it ok... it seems to be the norm these days to get the product out and iron out bugs in a later release. As long as the quality is respectable, which I feel it was in this case, I can live with it. Particularly since the alternative would be to make do with buying an older model or waiting longer for the handset.
Zuber
Just give us an example of one single gadget that was not rushed out of the door!
The iPhone? Hellooo, the original iPhone didn't even have 3G. Have you ever tried GPRS speed (Go to wireless settings and pick "2G only"), not even funny. Talk about being rushed out of the door!
and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released! So yes may have been rushed out the door but no financial gain in the long run.
Was this a free upgrade that did not involve commuting to a contract ?
If not, then its not free...
Zuber
the handsets weren't free in the first place... you want to split hairs then fine.
The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber
Zuber said:
The uninformed might think Apple were so caring and generous that they were willing to swap out the phones for "no financial gain"...
You can say many things about Apple, but generous isn't one of them
Zuber
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Agreed However i thought it wasn't a bad deal as i have always thought the handsets were a rip off...coming to think of it the tariffs are aswell. I work for network rail and get 30% off all o2 shop tariffs and i still opted for the hero on orange which was a miles better deal!
(sorry for the partial hi-jack! )
crash_194 said:
and apple offered a free upgrade to the 3g version when it was released!
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Click to collapse
Free upgrade! Just sign on for another 12 months of the 60+EUR/month (AT&T US) plan
Ok, I was one of the early adoptors of Hero. I got it right after its launch and I didnt really had too many complains about the device.
I never ever bought any HTC phone hoping it to be perfect. I always bought HTC knowing it will not be a perfect device out of box but community efforts will make it much much better device over time.
This applies to WinMo devices, and android. Why do we have xda here???
If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.
I don't think HTC rushed the phone out the door. The software was good enough so the phone functioned as a phone. It's a smartphone designed with the capability to upgrade the software. As long as the hardware is good quality, then you can work with the software and polish it as you go along.
I never really noticed the lag - it's only put to shame when you compare it with the new software. Look at the problems people are having with the iPhone 3.1 software release and you should be thankful that HTC have actually first delivered useable phone software and then improved it only a month after release. And HTC got some nice innovations to boot with the first release. They were perhaps a bit ambitious with the first release - where the phone did a lot of things when it first came out of sleep or switched screens, including the clock "flipping" animation.
RaptorRVL said:
If you ask me, it's actually a great device. I've had far worse :/
I think people kinda underestimate how difficult it is to make good software. And how difficult it is to properly test stuff like this as well.
Next to that, it's always a comprimise. They want the software to be good, but also get the device out as fast as possible. The faster a (good) device is out there, the better that is for HTC in this case. It's a very competitive market, there just isn't enough time to keep working on the software until it's perfect.
The software should be 'good enough' and not perfect. I'm 100% sure they have a bugtracker or something else to keep track of major and minor bugs. At some point someone has to make a decision what will and won't be fixed before launch. And what shall be fixed right after launch.
For a new OS with a new UI like on the Hero I think they did very very well on the first release.
Now I fully agree with the OP, the lag/speed issue with the first ROM was not in HTC's favour. It was something that came up in every review, and people still believe that's a big Hero issue even while it's fixed. On the other hand, there might have been more important things that were fixed during development.
Usually speed improvements and tweaking stuff like that is something you do last. Other bugs and stuff has to be fixed first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some of these bugs are quite known more or less right out of the box, for instance logging into the market, you couldn't do this unless you actually entered your google credentials when you first setup the phone.
People are going to compare the Hero with the likes of the iPhone, it's the only comparable handset out on the market at the moment. But what i'm afraid of is the lack of future support for the Hero, as yet another handset is on the horizon from HTC. OK, maybe Apple have got it right in respect of only having to supporting one handset (and very simalar firmwares, agreed) which means more time focusing on bug fixes and upgrades.
I hope HTC do not put the Hero to the back of the pile and focus on new handsets
Apple did a good job selling it's next product, as usual. it announced a product and with it a firm release date in the very near future.
In contrast, Google screwed up the FroYo release as much as they possibly can. Google I/O announced FroYo on May 20th, with no firm date for release. That was just a few days short of three weeks ago.
Okay, so I am not worried about it to the point that I am ready to go all iPhone on your butts, I am just pointing out that Google has a lot to learn about rolling out a product.
They absolutely do.
Google is acting like a bunch of freaking amateurs.
I'm not the least bit interested in the iPhone, but I am jealous that they guys running Apple seem more professional and capable than do the folks running Google/Android.
It's embarrassing.
attn1 said:
Apple did a good job selling it's next product, as usual. it announced a product and with it a firm release date in the very near future.
In contrast, Google screwed up the FroYo release as much as they possibly can. Google I/O announced FroYo on May 20th, with no firm date for release. That was just a few days short of three weeks ago.
Okay, so I am not worried about it to the point that I am ready to go all iPhone on your butts, I am just pointing out that Google has a lot to learn about rolling out a product.
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+1
Honestly, I feel the same way. Google I/O was great, but it was all just fluff. We didn't get anything solid. Nothing. Google can take some lessons here about giving people something they can hold on too. "Few Weeks" is not enough. I think one of the main reasons that people aren't out in front of Google with pitch forks and torches is that they "leaked" a 2.2 early release so we have a taste of it and something to play with.
All in all, I agree with you 100%, Google has a lot to learn.
On the flip side -
Apple introduced iAds today like they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, hold the phone (lousy pun intended - deal), those little banners consume data. No biggie data is unlimit- whoa wait. Not it's not. Not anymore on Apple's carrier of choice in the USA.
I don't care how little data those little banners use - to promote a system that not only allows their use but encourages it at the expense of a user locked into a tiered data plan is reprehensible. Does anyone else see an ethical problem with this?
Then there is the practical issue - a user is at the hairy edge of his allotment without buying more data - well except for those pesky little banners that put him over the top. Nice job, Steve Jobs, you butthole.
Likewise, I think any Android PAID app should have all ad banners removed. I know this is a common practice, but it should be a rule. No app with banners should be available at all without a paid counterpart without banners, IMO.
Well sure we don't have a solid release date yet... but we also get more updates then 1 per year. Think on the bright side. At least Froyo 2.2 is already out, if not officially. I don't understand your complaining. Android can already do what the iPhone is just not catching up to.
If our Androids ran on Apple time... we wouldn't see 2.2 until next January. Again, be happy you don't have to wait that long. Be lucky we get what we get. Plus 2.1 runs great anyway.
player911 said:
we wouldn't see 2.2 until next January. .
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at the rate Google is going.....
player911 said:
Well sure we don't have a solid release date yet... but we also get more updates then 1 per year. Think on the bright side. At least Froyo 2.2 is already out, if not officially. I don't understand your complaining. Android can already do what the iPhone is just not catching up to.
If our Androids ran on Apple time... we wouldn't see 2.2 until next January. Again, be happy you don't have to wait that long. Be lucky we get what we get. Plus 2.1 runs great anyway.
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No, not complaining, stating some facts.
Apple = Solid release dates announced
Google = Vague mentions to releases that are coming "soon".
What should Google do? Follow the Apply model? Announce it 4 months ago, which is what Apple did, then wait until you release a new phone (which actually have hard dates) to launch the new OS... so if Google did this, we would be waiting until the Nexus2 to get FroYo. Sounds great guys! Not...
Take a nap or something.
pjcforpres said:
What should Google do? Follow the Apply model? Announce it 4 months ago, which is what Apple did, then wait until you release a new phone (which actually have hard dates) to launch the new OS... so if Google did this, we would be waiting until the Nexus2 to get FroYo. Sounds great guys! Not...
Take a nap or something.
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They should have STFU until they had a hard release date.
Period.
And they sure as hell shouldn't have released it to the freaking press who didn't pay a dime for their Nexus.
Old MuckenMire said:
They should have STFU until they had a hard release date.
Period.
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Stop whining please.
It makes the rest of us Nexus One owners look bad.
Talderon said:
No, not complaining, stating some facts.
Apple = Solid release dates announced
Google = Vague mentions to releases that are coming "soon".
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Simple facts...
Apple= Announcing new phone!
Google= Software update
Two different things. Google gave a firm date for the Nexus One.
And when has Apple ever given a firm date for a software update/bug fix? Oh, wait, they haven't... they have only ever given firm dates for new phone releases, and then said the exact same stuff Google has, that the new OS will be available shortly for other models.
ap3604 said:
Stop whining please.
It makes the rest of us Nexus One owners look bad.
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Dude you're responsible for yourself. I'm not going to shut up because you are insecure.
player911 said:
Well sure we don't have a solid release date yet... but we also get more updates then 1 per year. Think on the bright side. At least Froyo 2.2 is already out, if not officially. I don't understand your complaining. Android can already do what the iPhone is just not catching up to.
If our Androids ran on Apple time... we wouldn't see 2.2 until next January. Again, be happy you don't have to wait that long. Be lucky we get what we get. Plus 2.1 runs great anyway.
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I am just saying that Apple has their act together when it comes to product launches. Google does not. People had a much better understanding of what's coming and when with Apple's Keynote than they did at Google's. It left a lot less speculation and release anxiousness on the table. That makes for happier customers.
No doubt I'd rather be using the version of FroYo we are already looking at than iOS4. That wasn't my point.
Since Apple is now in the ad business (some vague 60% number thrown out there), why not get into the hardware business google?
HTC is a good manufacturer but lacks the innovation needed. Sony designs well but moves at a snails pace and makes horrible decisions.
....10char
Old MuckenMire said:
Dude you're responsible for yourself.
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Very true. And on the flip side of that - Your responsible for yourself as well. So act like an adult instead of getting everyone tense on the forum with childish behavior.
I wouldn't be upset really. Tom Petty did say it best when he said "waiting is the hardest part". However if Froyo isn't finished, then we need to sit back and chill for a little while longer. I would be really mad if we get it (example) July 4th weekend and absolutely nothing has been added or changed.
Looks like we are all in wait and see mode..
Google needs to get it's act together on android. Microsoft is going to come after them, not apple not RIM. Microsoft and Google are aiming for OEMs and OEMs have already complained about google's way of releasing android updates.
I was shocked when Andy Rubin said that they don't have road-maps for version release. Google needs to look at Mozilla for their planning.
ap3604 said:
Very true. And on the flip side of that - Your responsible for yourself as well. So act like an adult instead of getting everyone tense on the forum with childish behavior.
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Rather than try and start a flame war, just post your opinion like I did and move one. If you cannot handle an opposing opinion, the internet may not be for you. If you're getting tense reading my posts, take a valium, but I will post any way I want(within forum rules of course).
attn1 said:
piss off, pantload.
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It's ok attn1... I know if I was always screaming "the sky is falling the sky is falling" about the release of Froyo I'd be a little tense too
I just got an update from samsung india froyo update and it is:
'We don't have an eta on that'
now I regret I bought such an expensive phone from a company who don't have any clue about developing high end phone
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
lol good morning
Then sell the device and buy an iPhone... you'll see what they will answer when you ask when to expect the next OS or the next bug release!
Its not like that. If they cannot do it in real time, at least let us the option to use god damn AOSP Android. I dont want Samsung's crap.
Next Android release is knocking on our doors, and they are delaying every month 2.2 release because they dont know know how to develop.
This is my first Samsung phone and will be my last. Next Android based will be Google's future release.
Well then I'm pretty sure you can find someone who will trade you their Nexus 1 for your SGS, because they also have issue... and also have delay on the fixes because they have to program it, test it, learn to deal with it, correct it, retest it like every other company. And when it's finaly release, they'll have something they forgot or that sliped...
I don't know if you are aware that programing is a real complicated process, you can't do it "real time" because the hardware is different, so you have to rebuilt the drivers, recompile every thing, test, correct, and on, and on...
Just as an example, Froyo SDK was "out" on 20th of may
Nexus one, wich is pretty much endorsed by google, had the update on 26th of june. It's more than a month for a device that's pretty much made by the same people and on wich it was develop, so basically they had thier hands on it since a longuer time.
Now imagine that another company has decided to change radicaly the hardware (CPU, GPU, partition types, etc.) and now have to rewrite everything to fit the new release, you can only assume it'll take a while.
Then, if you think it's not worth the wait, you should buy the most compatible hardware in the first place.
t1mman said:
Well then I'm pretty sure you can find someone who will trade you their Nexus 1 for your SGS, because they also have issue... and also have delay on the fixes because they have to program it, test it, learn to deal with it, correct it, retest it like every other company. And when it's finaly release, they'll have something they forgot or that sliped...
I don't know if you are aware that programing is a real complicated process, you can't do it "real time" because the hardware is different, so you have to rebuilt the drivers, recompile every thing, test, correct, and on, and on...
Just as an example, Froyo SDK was "out" on 20th of may
Nexus one, wich is pretty much endorsed by google, had the update on 26th of june. It's more than a month for a device that's pretty much made by the same people and on wich it was develop, so basically they had thier hands on it since a longuer time.
Now imagine that another company has decided to change radicaly the hardware (CPU, GPU, partition types, etc.) and now have to rewrite everything to fit the new release, you can only assume it'll take a while.
Then, if you think it's not worth the wait, you should buy the most compatible hardware in the first place.
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Finally someone who gets it seriously , these people should stop fooling theirselves.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
t1mman said:
Well then I'm pretty sure you can find someone who will trade you their Nexus 1 for your SGS, because they also have issue... and also have delay on the fixes because they have to program it, test it, learn to deal with it, correct it, retest it like every other company. And when it's finaly release, they'll have something they forgot or that sliped...
I don't know if you are aware that programing is a real complicated process, you can't do it "real time" because the hardware is different, so you have to rebuilt the drivers, recompile every thing, test, correct, and on, and on...
Just as an example, Froyo SDK was "out" on 20th of may
Nexus one, wich is pretty much endorsed by google, had the update on 26th of june. It's more than a month for a device that's pretty much made by the same people and on wich it was develop, so basically they had thier hands on it since a longuer time.
Now imagine that another company has decided to change radicaly the hardware (CPU, GPU, partition types, etc.) and now have to rewrite everything to fit the new release, you can only assume it'll take a while.
Then, if you think it's not worth the wait, you should buy the most compatible hardware in the first place.
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Well, I do work in an corporate IT env, and I know how things like dev, QA, UAT, etc works. At least within my Company a dead line has to be met and it is met. If that release has problems, a QuickFix may be provided to fix it.
My main problem IS the delay itself. First thing Samsung should officially announce a released date. This for poor end users not waiting in vane for something that MIGHT make things work better (most probably not). With 5mil devices sold, Samsung should understand that keeping end users informed is the way to go for future profits. At least half of my friends with SGS are disappointed with software quality and waiting eagerly for something better. Nor me or them will by another Samsung device ever.
Anyway, I dont want a flame. This my opinion.
Ladduro said:
First thing Samsung should officially announce a released date.
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I got to here and stopped reading. This sentence is enough proof you don't really know how to deal with customer relationships. It's obvious they have problems with their builds and are trying to fix it. If they put a solid release date on 2.2 and not deliver it, they would need to do a lot more damage control. If they actually put a solid release date and delay the release, you'd get this kind of thread every 5 seconds on this forum. It's annoying as it is, and anymore would probably make this forum literally unusable with people whining and crying. Don't like the phone? Sell it. It's as simple as that.
thedauntlessone said:
Don't like the phone? Sell it. It's as simple as that.
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Why not just tell Samsung to buy back the phone, so the consumer can get all their money back? Selling a used phone on the open market, usually means the consumer will not get back what they had paid originally.
I feel the reason people want Froyo so bad is because Froyo is supposed to fix a lot of the bugs in the SGS; such as the GPS not working correctly. I also think the reason Samsung keeps pushing back the Froyo release is because they're having problems fixing hardware faults with software. Software fixes can only do so much, if the hardware isn't working properly.
Ladduro said:
Well, I do work in an corporate IT env, and I know how things like dev, QA, UAT, etc works. At least within my Company a dead line has to be met and it is met. If that release has problems, a QuickFix may be provided to fix it.
My main problem IS the delay itself. First thing Samsung should officially announce a released date. This for poor end users not waiting in vane for something that MIGHT make things work better (most probably not). With 5mil devices sold, Samsung should understand that keeping end users informed is the way to go for future profits. At least half of my friends with SGS are disappointed with software quality and waiting eagerly for something better. Nor me or them will by another Samsung device ever.
.
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So in other words, release garbage which might cause serious issues because the deadline is more important than the quality of the product? It's often pretty obvious to identify which software development companies do that, because often, their products are either incredibly slow moving, or buggy.
Also, that works with a lot of PC software, but on mobile phones, people SERIOUSLY freak when their phone wont boot. If an Application is buggy, you can just upgrade it, but it isn't as easy on a mobile. Development companies should show previews and provide expected shipping dates, but should only announce the exact date when it can be known (near end of testing).
By the way, deadlines are named appropriately I feel. Passengers on a plane might complain when they are late, but what they don't realise is that the alternative's often weren't worth the risk. I'll also remind you "what a customer thinks they want, may not be what they want". In this case, you think you want froyo (for the sake of froyo), but what you actually want is a more usable phone OS. If you can't rely on your phone to work well enough to receive calls without your knowledge, whats the point?
t1mman said:
Well then I'm pretty sure you can find someone who will trade you their Nexus 1 for your SGS, because they also have issue... and also have delay on the fixes because they have to program it, test it, learn to deal with it, correct it, retest it like every other company. And when it's finaly release, they'll have something they forgot or that sliped...
I don't know if you are aware that programing is a real complicated process, you can't do it "real time" because the hardware is different, so you have to rebuilt the drivers, recompile every thing, test, correct, and on, and on...
Just as an example, Froyo SDK was "out" on 20th of may
Nexus one, wich is pretty much endorsed by google, had the update on 26th of june. It's more than a month for a device that's pretty much made by the same people and on wich it was develop, so basically they had thier hands on it since a longuer time.
Now imagine that another company has decided to change radicaly the hardware (CPU, GPU, partition types, etc.) and now have to rewrite everything to fit the new release, you can only assume it'll take a while.
Then, if you think it's not worth the wait, you should buy the most compatible hardware in the first place.
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Click to collapse
Yes I am aware of the complex software development process as I am in software development field for more than a decade.
I am not happy because samsung keep changing their froyo release dates and now they dont have an ETA.
That is what is bothering me. I expect them to communicate more clearly, so that we know what to expect. I dont expect lies after lies from samsung.
t1mman said:
Then sell the device and buy an iPhone... you'll see what they will answer when you ask when to expect the next OS or the next bug release!
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That is exactly the reason I did not get an iPhone and I will never get an iPhone