Database Users

Open letter to Sony Erricson - Discussion

Hello Guys,
I have been very happy reading itjes post in the beginning of semptember that he has gotten a official Xperia 6.5 kernel. I really got the hope that we will get an 6.5 update for the Xperia by Sony Erricson.
But yesterday I was shocked when I read the official blog of Xperia / Sony Erricson.
I thought I have bought a enterprise device with first-class service - its definitly what I paid for.
Thats why I would like to write an open letter to Sony Erricson with you to present them our point of view.
I will never buy a Sony Erricson device ever again if we don't get an official update and I am not going to buy a Software-Update for 800$ (X2).
The Xperia is not even one year on the market and we don't get anymore support ? I dont think that this is a enterprise service!
I would like to write the open letter HERE at xda to show them how many we are and that we are united here.Thats why I would like you to collect arguments here - and discuss.
Later (in a few days) I will collect all of your ideas and write the letter and publish it here where you can all sign it.
Greetings
SlowlyDead

I agree totally with all the aspect that you say. This situation has been discussed many times in this forum and others. I expect that all this ideas and opinion will serve to make SE think and restate it's plans. I told what I think about the 6.5 support a few weeks ago, there is a post here about it.
Best regards.

when i bought the x1 last November at no point did sony say or give the impression that they would update the os to 6.5.
the have done 2 firmware updates and there may be one more to come.
i think people should stop complaining as no other mobile phone company are giving free updates on a product that is a year old.

There are plenty of discussions already regarding SE but as we all love to moan and groan about them why not start a new thread just to give em some s**t.
My main concern at present is that as you say support for X1 stops and support for X2 starts, we wont be able to OFFICIALLY get any of the panels from X2 on our X1 or any of the additional software that comes with X2. So it seems the panels that are available now are all that will be available to the X1 and future ones are for X2 only.
I would like to see WM6.5 along with new panel manager and X2 panel downloads in an update available for the X1 OFFICIALY via SEUS. However im not too fussed about WM6.5 but would be a bonus.

We all are with you. We want 6.5 since the X1 could run it perfectly. Such a expensiv device gets such a bad supports. That's a shame!

Ganondolf said:
i think people should stop complaining as no other mobile phone company are giving free updates on a product that is a year old.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple still manages to update the first generatin iPhone after all this time...

1 - Your letter will achieve nothing.
2 - Write oit yoorself, no one else cares.
3 - Yes, SE's support and services are crap and yes we bought a high-end device for a premium price, but look at 4...
4 - SE never promised to give a free 6.5 update. Why should they? There is no logical reason. Some companies do it, but that is their decision and not mandatory act. SE is not one of them and X1 is not one of those phones. Deal with it.
They are not obliged to do it and they don't need to. Not happy? No one cares. No one will give you free stuff. Don't be a cheap ....... and buy your stuff. It feels much more gratifying believe me.
Do you expect the company that sold you your PC with Windows XP to provide you a free upgrade to Vista? Hahahahahha.
Think for a second. THINK!

Ganondolf said:
when i bought the x1 last November at no point did sony say or give the impression that they would update the os to 6.5.
the have done 2 firmware updates and there may be one more to come.
i think people should stop complaining as no other mobile phone company are giving free updates on a product that is a year old.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true, they didn't say anything about upgrading to 6.5 last year.
but since there are so many people complaining about no support after "1 year", i have to say: that's not true!
here in europe the x1 hit the market in september or early october 2008. it had firmware-problems and needed and got 2 updates. some bugs got fixed, some are still present and some were even built in! (x1-cam-videos playing fine in r1, laggy playback in r2 & r3!)
r3 came out when? april 2009? since then: nada. nothing. not even leaks like prior to the r3. this means that se stopped development for a device which cost 800,- euros (!) after only HALF A YEAR!!!
i think one has have every right to complain about that! and remember it when buying a new phone...

caliban2 said:
true, they didn't say anything about upgrading to 6.5 last year.
but since there are so many people complaining about no support after "1 year", i have to say: that's not true!
here in europe the x1 hit the market in september or early october 2008. it had firmware-problems and needed and got 2 updates. some bugs got fixed, some are still present and some were even built in! (x1-cam-videos playing fine in r1, laggy playback in r2 & r3!)
r3 came out when? april 2009? since then: nada. nothing. not even leaks like prior to the r3. this means that se stopped development for a device which cost 800,- euros (!) after only HALF A YEAR!!!
i think one has have every right to complain about that! and remember it when buying a new phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im in the uk and bought the phone on release, the start of november. the only country that got it before the uk was Sweden, they got it mid october.
i have had lots of phones from SE and other companies and its very rare SE ever give firmware updates but on the x1 they have given 2, which have sorted alot of the bugs and speed issues. now that the bugs and speed issues are sorted there has not been any need for another firmware update.
i spent £500 for the x1 and the only thing i am unhappy about is the cracking problem, it was the highest spec phone when it was released, the best looking and since release they have sorted all (most) the software problems.
what people are asking for is stuff (panel manager, panels, wm6.5) which people that bought the x1 are not titled to and if SE kept giving x1 users free stuff (like wm 6.5 which they have to pay license frees to give) they would go bust.
if u want the new stuff buy a x2 or wait till its leaked onto the forum.

Thanks for the support.
To some critic:
I think there is a huge difference between Windows and Windows mobile.
While Windows is the main OS in personal computer market and sold between 100 and 300 € Windows Mobile is not avaible to buy by the end costumer. Only producers can buy it for their products. Although Windows mobile cost just about 5-10 $ (rumors, we cant by sure about that but it has to be there somewere). I would not be that angry if Sony Erricson / Microsoft would give me the opportunity to buy Windows Mobile 6.5 for something about 10 € without losing warranty. The X2 has only a minimal improved hardware and the customs roms shows us that the X1 can run 6.5 fine - Where is our opporunity to upgrade ?
Therfore I totaly agree with caliban2.
And too orelsi:
To 1) we will see
To 2) I will write it but I want to write a letter we can all identify with and collect all arguments.
Greetings
SlowlyDead

Ganondolf said:
im in the uk and bought the phone on release, the start of november. the only country that got it before the uk was Sweden, they got it mid october.
i have had lots of phones from SE and other companies and its very rare SE ever give firmware updates but on the x1 they have given 2, which have sorted alot of the bugs and speed issues. now that the bugs and speed issues are sorted there has not been any need for another firmware update.
i spent £500 for the x1 and the only thing i am unhappy about is the cracking problem, it was the highest spec phone when it was released, the best looking and since release they have sorted all (most) the software problems.
what people are asking for is stuff (panel manager, panels, wm6.5) which people that bought the x1 are not titled to and if SE kept giving x1 users free stuff (like wm 6.5 which they have to pay license frees to give) they would go bust.
if u want the new stuff buy a x2 or wait till its leaked onto the forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jap, made a typo above - it started at 699,- here. does it matter if it started in the end of september or 2 weeks later in mid-october?
se still left the x1 in april, which is about a half year, give or take.
i'm not interested in the new stuff, the panels, some x2-games - i can get everything if i need here or on other sites.
but what i want:
the most pressing bugs fixed (vid-playback, stability, etc). i don't know how you can say everything is working smooth and fast now... i want the substructure to be fixed. i'm normally on custom roms, but yesterday i flashed the official r3, because i had to try something - it's still horrible! every late custom rom with x2-drivers and the leaked 6.5-kernel feels nearly twice as fast!
so, looking at how the x1 has positioned and looking at it's competitors, it's been a ripoff.
but let's not start a flamewar here. if you're happy and content - good for you. all i wanted to say is that se stopped developing/supporting the x1 after ~6 months, not a year as it's always said. (apart from fixing broken phones on warranty, which is something completly different)

se never promised 6.5 on the x1. They don't need or have to do it. Stop whining about losing something that you were never promised in the first place

hey orelsi, just curious:
is this the max font size on xda or does it get even bigger? you might change the colour to red and use underlines though, you know, so that really noone can miss your post.

caliban2 said:
jap, made a typo above - it started at 699,- here. does it matter if it started in the end of september or 2 weeks later in mid-october?
se still left the x1 in april, which is about a half year, give or take.
i'm not interested in the new stuff, the panels, some x2-games - i can get everything if i need here or on other sites.
but what i want:
the most pressing bugs fixed (vid-playback, stability, etc). i don't know how you can say everything is working smooth and fast now... i want the substructure to be fixed. i'm normally on custom roms, but yesterday i flashed the official r3, because i had to try something - it's still horrible! every late custom rom with x2-drivers and the leaked 6.5-kernel feels nearly twice as fast!
so, looking at how the x1 has positioned and looking at it's competitors, it's been a ripoff.
but let's not start a flamewar here. if you're happy and content - good for you. all i wanted to say is that se stopped developing/supporting the x1 after ~6 months, not a year as it's always said. (apart from fixing broken phones on warranty, which is something completly different)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do I want a new update? I don't really care. Everything is as close to perfect as humanly possible. Sure, I wouldn't mind one or one thousand more, but...
Do I need a new updae? Not really. Reasons stated above.
The R3A fixed many of the bugs and issues woth stability, etc. Anything else can be fixed by simple tweaking.
The X1 is fast, smooth and bug free. I am happy with it and I'm quite hard to satisfy when it comes to technology.
SE's support sucks. Their attitude sucks.
BUT
They are notorious for not providing many updates to their phones, so the X1 had some luck in that area. SE's policy is ****ty at best, but it has been like that for years. If you don't like it, you shouldn't have gotten the X1. Buy something else in the future...

Slowly Dead, I agree with you even being a lawyer. Sure SE has no obligation, but for a device like the X1 support and updates should be something to go without saying. This is my first SE unit and if we do not get service, we will go with companies which offer services like HTC. The ability to upgrade with XDA -many thanks - is not an argument to benefit SE. Certain customary standards aplly to SE and if not kept, they are out.

We never said that SE promised us the update. All we say is that we like to see 6.5 on our phones and we ask SE to make that update so WE MIGHT CONSIDER A SE PHONE AGAIN!
If your x1 is perfect, do not dare to download 6.5 if it pops up, @orelsi

[email protected] said:
Slowly Dead, I agree with you even being a lawyer. Sure SE has no obligation, but for a device like the X1 support and updates should be something to go without saying. This is my first SE unit and if we do not get service, we will go with companies which offer services like HTC. The ability to upgrade with XDA -many thanks - is not an argument to benefit SE. Certain customary standards aplly to SE and if not kept, they are out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They have provided 2 updates already. They fixed most of the problems and issues.
They DO NOT need to provide WinMo 6.5.....
Updating customer devices regularly to fix problems - mandatory.
Upgrading customers devices with newer OS (never promised or hinted when the sell was made) - NOT mandatory.
Want a newer OS? Buy a new device, because bno one promised you and upgrade. No one will do it just because you want it..... If wishes were pennies......

oTToToTenTanz said:
We never said that SE promised us the update. All we say is that we like to see 6.5 on our phones and we ask SE to make that update so WE MIGHT CONSIDER A SE PHONE AGAIN!
If your x1 is perfect, do not dare to download 6.5 if it pops up, @orelsi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You - We want 6.5
SE - Why should we give it to you?
You - We paid a premium price for the X1!
SE - Yes you did and we gave you an OS with it didn't we?
You - Yes, but it was 6.1.
SE - Then you should have waited another year for 6.5.
You - But...
SE - Do you expect to get the new X2 for free, because you paid a lot of money for the X1?
You - Well, no, but...
SE - IT IS THE SAME THING!!!!!!!! Thank you and have a nice day .
You can't blackmail them to give you something for free lol. You are free to choose any other product on the market, if you don't like SE's.
What makes you come back to a company for another purchase?
1 - Nice product. Is the X1 a nice product? Yes.
2 - Quality support. Do we have this? Nope, but we got more updates than most SE phones...
3 - Free stuff? Nope... That company would go bankrupt.
I wouldn't download 6.5, because and don't like it at the moment. By the time I need it and it's bug free, It would be time for to get a new phone and that phone will have it pre-installed...

[email protected] said:
Slowly Dead, I agree with you even being a lawyer. Sure SE has no obligation, but for a device like the X1 support and updates should be something to go without saying. This is my first SE unit and if we do not get service, we will go with companies which offer services like HTC. The ability to upgrade with XDA -many thanks - is not an argument to benefit SE. Certain customary standards aplly to SE and if not kept, they are out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC is not really better!
The TouchHD, which is also one year old, will not have WM6.5 update

oTToToTenTanz said:
We never said that SE promised us the update. All we say is that we like to see 6.5 on our phones and we ask SE to make that update so WE MIGHT CONSIDER A SE PHONE AGAIN!
If your x1 is perfect, do not dare to download 6.5 if it pops up, @orelsi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if orelsi wanted a 6.5 rom he would of downloaded a custom one a long time ago.

App Request. Urgent Devs!! [Humor]

Since I got my Xperia X10, I have been following xda forum quiet regularly. I started to notice a trend in the posts of Xperia X10 threads. This trend is commonly known as Kubler-Ross model or "5 stages of grief".
1st Stage: Denial- "No we have Multitouch..........it just needs to be rooted"
2nd Stage: Anger- "F** SE, A**h**e SE, I will never buy their products etc...."
3rd Stage: Bargaining- "OK if Paul starts working on it then we can have the root"
4th Stage: Depression- "I will not be fooled by SE again, going to HTC next time...." or "Iphone has a good operating system"
5th Stage: Aceptance-"Well it does what the box says......"
I am currently between 3 and 4, but there are lots of ppl in stage 2. And they are cursing each other in Android Developement thread. I am not sure how much developement has been done but I can see very well the stages of grief going on. This is becoming a serious issue now
I think the dev should just stop whatever they are doing and make an app, which just say "Everything is OK, it's JUST a phone".
Non devs please state your stage of grief. Only by consulting and more discussing about your stage of grief, will make you feel better. So please write your stage and how many time you click on refresh and how is this effecting your life

Hi, my name is Bikram. I press the refresh buttom atleast 4 times within an hour. This is making me unproductive at job.

rofl, I can't believe i just read that post. stage 3

isn't it an achievement SE made this trend?
since it's not happening anywhere but SE thread so i am supposed this is SE problem not we user
anyway i am 2,3,4

Hi, I'm thunderpossum, and I'm a stage 5 refreshaholic.
Boredom is what keeps me coming back.
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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App

haha, great thread!
i'm at a quasi-state 4. I'm still an SE fan, but since I'm with T-Mobile and need a good Android with the 1700 band, I'm getting my first non-SE phone ever, and picking up a Nexus One.
If SE learns from it's mistakes about skimping on hardware and taking ages for software updates, and makes a good X10 successor, I'll be more than happy to give SE another shot.

pakraider said:
haha, great thread!
i'm at a quasi-state 4. I'm still an SE fan, but since I'm with T-Mobile and need a good Android with the 1700 band, I'm getting my first non-SE phone ever, and picking up a Nexus One.
If SE learns from it's mistakes about skimping on hardware and taking ages for software updates, and makes a good X10 successor, I'll be more than happy to give SE another shot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
forget it man. how could you expect they will do better next time while they messed up like this at the moment?=..=

gaolinde said:
forget it man. how could you expect they will do better next time while they messed up like this at the moment?=..=
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might be right, but let's be honest--if (a big if) SE decided to change it's frustrating ways and really knock it out of the park on a future Android phone, won't all of us be flocking to get it and flaunting our SE fan credentials?
I'll stay an SE fan, but with Froyo out and Gingerbread coming in Q4, and Nexus One being a rooted and well supported phone, I have to put practicalities above brand loyalty when it comes to shelling out $500+.

I'm between 4 & 5. Accepting its comfortably the best phone i ever owned. With equal measure of annoyance that SE have ' gone dark' on us. Ace thread by the way!
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Sent from my X10i

pakraider said:
You might be right, but let's be honest--if (a big if) SE decided to change it's frustrating ways and really knock it out of the park on a future Android phone, won't all of us be flocking to get it and flaunting our SE fan credentials?
I'll stay an SE fan, but with Froyo out and Gingerbread coming in Q4, and Nexus One being a rooted and well supported phone, I have to put practicalities above brand loyalty when it comes to shelling out $500+.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have no idea how much time you been frustrating with SE but for me i already experienced on w960 and x1 now x10 is the third time they made a nice looking and decent hardware device out of the competition because they took a hell of long time to develope their horrible os before they launch the product and have no problem giving their so called flagship product out there with unbearable cripple which is cause by software issue.
so if you ask me do i think they will do it again the next time?
i think they'll not even hesitate to do so!

I guess there is another stage after 5 for ppl waiting 2.2 and other cool things that can make x10 the perfect phone
Mugur
http://mugur-ionescu.ro/tag/xperia

I think i skiped all those stages, I've been a long term fan of SE and accept them even with their many failings! As for the x10 i love it, its been a while since i've had a touch screen phone (had a p900 then went to candybar phones for a while) so i'm enjoying being back and having a weath of apps at my fingertips. I bought the phone fully aware that it was 1.6 and that SE said it would be in q4 before the big update comes (which I take to mean 'at some time after q4', I've been with se way too long to beleive a definate when they give it!) so i'm happy with my purchase.
As for issues and bugs its had this is all standard stuff with a new anything, especially when its something new for the company too, its something you have to accept as an alpha consumer otherwise you will drive yourself mad with frustration!

Stage two and I'm sending the bill for my anger management classes to SE lol. I hit refresh more times than I can count in a day (at least a dozen times during my morning b m). I need help, I'm going to go for addictions counselling tomorrow. They think I need to go through the 12 step program. It's just hard admitting I have a problem.
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Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App

Well, i'm probably stage 5 from the beginning.
I knew what i'll buy.
What i don't like about SE?
They are slow as a donkey riding a pig.
What i don't like about N1? Is made by HTC.
What i don't like about HTC? Well, is HTC.
I wish i could buy the Motoroi or Galaxy S had at least a flash light like X10

oh crap, looks like I hit stage 4, I was actually impressed with apples updates in ios4 I can't believe I actually considered owning one of those useless idevices again

stage 4 ,but i already have htc phone but windows os not android (hd2)

I know full well what to expect from SE after owning the X1 and X2. The X2 is on it's way back now and I am getting an x10 in return. Heck if I could get my money back I would! However, the X10 is one sexy looking phone, you gotta give it that.
I did a lot of research on what the X10 can and can't do, and I am prepared for that, so I wont get angry. Trust me, it's nothing compared to MR1 on the X2... ugh! I would have gone with another brand based on that alone, but we can only hope the updates come complete and pre-tested for the X10. After the mess they made on the X2, I am sure they want to take their time to release the latest updates.
Multi touch? who knows, maybe SE is limiting multi touch on purpose to keep Apple off their lawsuit radar

I have been in stage 5 since a month before i even got it, couse, like iv'e said on several threads here hating everyting, i knew what i was paying for couse i did my homework. And one can not just assume root comes to every device. I happy with my phone, yet though i am starting to get really confused about the so called "may upgrade" and will it contain onefinger-pinch-zoom? I hope so. Cheers!
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Sent from my X10i

I am happily on 5th stage, right after the 1st stage.
I skipped the 3 stages in between, as they would ruin my mojo!!!

My review of the X10

Here my honest review after a couple week of use, I wont talk about the current update issue to 2.1 or 2.2 since I want to talk about the device in is current state.
Pro
-The design and quality of the device is very good in my opinion, it does fell very solid and simple to use. 9/10
-The screen is great, color, response, size and brightness make this device ideal to watch movie on the go or surf on the web .There is no multi touch so far, but honestly I don’t think it’s an issue, the screen is very responsive and work like a charm. 8/10
-Camera 8.1 megapixel, I was not impress at start, strange flash manner and picture quality not as great as I was expecting. Then I did play with the setting, it made a crazy difference. Picture now are crisp even in low light condition, details are nice and seriously now I can see myself use it as my main camera now. The flash always on don’t really matter, since its only turning on when you are about to take a picture no big deal and it really does help ,since the focus can adjust itself properly with the light already present then. Bottom lines don’t be shy try different setting play with the camera you won’t regret it. 8/10
-Call quality, while not the best is quite acceptable, I can hear people and they can hear me pretty well to even in a noisy environment. It’s certainly not perfect, but still better then most of my previous device.
-Multimedia, the sound quality is great, sound level is decent and with a proper headset will give you a great listening experience. I tried the same Mp3 at 320 kbs with my Sony MDR NC22 on different device, itouch 1 and 2 gen, Iphone 2 gen and my ipod classic, I did not see any difference .Video playback is nice and fluid and will definitely better then the itouch/iphone for the quality of the picture. 8/10
-Application, most of the normal user will find happiness, yes there is an apps for that, you will find apps for stuff you did not even know you could need before. Lots of apps are free or very cheap to buy.
-Connectivity, Nothing crazy there the device perform like it should, Bluetooth, wifi gps is quite standard now on most devices. They work quite well and you can expect them to work the way they should. 7/10
-Keyboard, some people wont like the oem one but in my opinion its not an issue since a dozen alternative exist and the market and you will definitely find one to please you. Swype won me and I would never use anything else now. 8/10
Cons
-Sony Ericson support, luckily you have lots of great online forum to find the help you need, otherwise you will be stuck in some mindless phone conversation and crazy back in forth email. 1/10
-Software update, the blame here is part fault from SE part fault from Carrier let me explain. Major upgrade coming from SE are very few, their road map is very limited so far, still they do make small update to fix most of issue the device have, problem is, most of carrier don’t push these update .Some like Rogers don’t even plan to make these small update available to their user , waiting on the big one to do anything. Carrier is the main issue, even if SE where to release 2.2 on the x10 tomorrow , 80% of the population will still never get it unless they temper their device. 5/10
If you did keep up with my awful French Canadian writing, I can say this: Overall it’s a great device; most of people will be pleased and won’t regret their purchase.
SE did not made any false promises so far, the unit came with lots of great feature and the quality of the hardware definitely will matter more then the Os shortcoming for most user. The rest of the people like me will expect a little more from their device and might feel frustrated to see similar device from other brand doing more with similar spec. I still wish SE to be more proactive and to understand the need of their entire customer, not just the lambda one.
Its all depend of your need and expectation, even with a technically outdated Os the device is quite stable, and unlike other mobile I had in the pass. It’s been on for 7 day now, not a single issue; SE did a pretty good job in that matter.
In a practical view, this device might not be great for game because of the lack of multi touch but as a work phone and multimedia device its definitely is a great contender. More users friendly then the blackberry, can handle heavy load of email, don’t look like a trendy toy like the iphone and still discrete while looking fantastic.

good revieuw! nice to hear sombody who is happy with the device.
instead of the bashing posts...
I'm very happy with my x10 as well, i have the white one.
and the overal experience is same like your's.

Hi. Think you've got it pretty much spot on with the exception of one small point about SE not making false promises... They said over four weeks ago that there would be a software update 2 weeks from then.... And still nothing in the UK. I'm on a factory unbranded handset by the way.
Other than that I'd agree with your thoughts and I too love my new toy!
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Sent from my X10i

im_iceman said:
Hi. Think you've got it pretty much spot on with the exception of one small point about SE not making false promises... They said over four weeks ago that there would be a software update 2 weeks from then.... And still nothing in the UK. I'm on a factory unbranded handset by the way.
Other than that I'd agree with your thoughts and I too love my new toy!
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Sent from my X10i
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey, yeah but thats not SE faulth. they released the .16update.
but in my country (belgium) its also not avaible. don't know why tough.
i have also an unbrandet version.

The .16 update came out ages before they made this announcement.. the update referred to in the announcement is different.. and how can it NOT be SE's fault?>

im_iceman said:
The .16 update came out ages before they made this announcement.. the update referred to in the announcement is different.. and how can it NOT be SE's fault?>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when SE release a update its possible that the carrier don't wanne release it.
because they don't think people need this... so SE release't the update but some SE user's don't get the update. people go to SE there for
but i taught it was about the .16 update. so my mistake.
i hope the update will come soon then!
and give SE a chanse, they made statments that they will provide plenty off fw update's for the x10. so i trust them, but iff they ditch me now its bye bye SE!

I still wish to fight for the 2.2,still a SE tech told me carrier was a major problem,since they want to test each update before implement them.Therefore most of them to save cost just wait for the big update 2.1 .
I have to be realistic,we wont see 2.2 this year because of this but i do still believe in the petition i started,just the goal have slightly changed,i just want to make sure i will receive the 2.2 .
Still at the end of the day,no matter what SE will do if company like ROGERS continue to screw up their customer nothing will change.

I got my handset from "Phones4U" in the UK and it came unbranded so it should get updates as soon as SE release them.. I think if anyone is really desperate for the updates then unbranding is the way to go..

i am wondering why he review on a forum that only Xperia 10 user would come usually.
It is very simple. For canadian who have no access to American's market (meaning those who don't want to brother buy phones off Ebay or anything else).
Xperia 10 is the best choice around until next year May at least.
Canadian technology catch up at a rate slower then turtles walk across a street.
You are not going to expect iphone 2 nor Evo 4g coming to canada this year to the very least.

Causes most of the user will search online and read quite a bit before buying any device and American market? What the hell are you talking about?
There is quite a choice on the Canadian market; most of carrier carries a good selection of android device.
Last times I check every major city have shop selling unbranded and unlocked unit for people not wishing to buy online……

[Q] Manufacturer Support?

So I hate my Hero, A, because it is slow, and B, because it is stuck on 2.1 forever. So I have been looking at the Evo and the Epic, and the other related phones, and here is my question, what is the support going to be like? I know that every time a new phone comes out, the manufacturers seem to forget about the old ones, and for no technical reason, the MyTouch 3G is getting Froyo after all. So one of the things I am looking at with my next phone is that it will be supported for the full two years, the Hero only made it 6 months, so I know that seems like a lot, but I honestly don't think it is too much to ask. If you sell a phone with a 2 year contract, you should support it for at least 2 years, as long as technically possible. So without a vanilla Android phone available on Sprint, which of the two phones do you guys think will be supported with updates longer? I have seen that sources close to Google said the Galaxy S phones will be upgraded to 3.0, but they didn't mention the EVO, even though it meets the spec requirements. Would it be waiting until the end of the year for whatever comes then? Or is just that buying me until December of next year instead of August? Thanks.

No phone will ever be supported for 2 years...some countries even have 3 year contracts as standards...The contract is unrelated to the phone you buy...
The manufacturer warranty is 1 year for all of them...past that you can't really expect them to issue updates for it...that is why we have a community...
You have to remember that the manufacturer is not earning money off your contract, only from the sale and if they have their apps in there, those as well...
The one who is forcing you into the contracts are the carriers...no matter how much you may think the US is a free open country..it is not...out of all the countries we have the most locking of phones and other things...
You are not forced to sign a new contract..you can always pay the full price of the phone up front..the contract just gives you a discount...

Ok, while I will admit all that you said is true, my example is the iPhone. Apple puts out a phone, and continues issuing updates for it, even you you are probably out of your 3G contract now, you can still upgrade to OS 4.0, you won't get all of the features, and it is debatable whether you should have those features, but at least you get part of the update. I don't understand why that can't happen on Android. Even the MyTouch 3G will have had support for over a year. The Hero on the other hand, got its first and only upgrade after about 6 months. Why can't we have some arrangement like that with a non-Google phone? I mean, just give me a full year of updates and I will be happy, if those updates are reasonably prompt, as with the EVO and Froyo. Will that continue with the EVO, or the Galaxy S when we move to Gingerbread?

USAF22 said:
Ok, while I will admit all that you said is true, my example is the iPhone. Apple puts out a phone, and continues issuing updates for it, even you you are probably out of your 3G contract now, you can still upgrade to OS 4.0, you won't get all of the features, and it is debatable whether you should have those features, but at least you get part of the update. I don't understand why that can't happen on Android. Even the MyTouch 3G will have had support for over a year. The Hero on the other hand, got its first and only upgrade after about 6 months. Why can't we have some arrangement like that with a non-Google phone? I mean, just give me a full year of updates and I will be happy, if those updates are reasonably prompt, as with the EVO and Froyo. Will that continue with the EVO, or the Galaxy S when we move to Gingerbread?
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Well iPhone is different..Apple actually gets paid a portion of your contract...not to mention all app revenue goes to them as well...
But in case of the Hero..it kinda came at a bad time...it was the point where the device specs skyrocketed and Android was moving fast in development..not to mention the Hero was already an out dated phone before it even came out..US was just slow at getting devices on the shelves...recently it seemed to have picked up..before it used to be 6 month - a year before it got in US shelves but was already all over the world...nowadays we get them 1-3 month or so...
Once 3.0 hits Android also slow down a bit in their release cycle...
Most likely you will get 1 year support around these days..and afterwards it will be community support for life ...

Maybe I am slightly bitter, especially that the poor Hero support came after my first HTC phone, the Touch Pro, broke on 4 separate occasions, the first two were within 30 days, so Sprint replaced it, but the 3rd time it took 3 weeks to send to HTC and get it back, after a maze of tech support calls. Then I upgrade to the Hero, and don't get supported.
But what you are saying all makes sense, so I hope either way we get more updates, even if they have to be delivered by the Dev community.

USAF22 said:
Maybe I am slightly bitter, especially that the poor Hero support came after my first HTC phone, the Touch Pro, broke on 4 separate occasions, the first two were within 30 days, so Sprint replaced it, but the 3rd time it took 3 weeks to send to HTC and get it back, after a maze of tech support calls. Then I upgrade to the Hero, and don't get supported.
But what you are saying all makes sense, so I hope either way we get more updates, even if they have to be delivered by the Dev community.
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My Hero has 2.2....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_vAbsx0spM

DirtyShroomz said:
My Hero has 2.2....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_vAbsx0spM
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He means from HTC/Sprint official upgrade..not community stuff..

DirtyShroomz said:
My Hero has 2.2....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_vAbsx0spM
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So does mine, thanks to Darchstar and all of his fellow developers. And I can't thank them enough for that, because if it weren't for them, I would have thrown this phone out of my car at high speed off a cliff long ago. But it shouldn't be up to developers to support a year old phone. Especially when it is obviously capable of running newer firmware. And because they don't officially support it, these 2.2 ROMs will never be as good as ones with the official HTC base.
gTen said:
He means from HTC/Sprint official upgrade..not community stuff..
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Correct, I just think it is the right thing to do when you sell a phone. Support it for two years. Sprint pays HTC for the phone, and we pay Sprint for the phone and service, so it just makes sense that they Sprint should make sure their customers are supported for at least the two year contract whenever technically possible.

One year of support might be feasable. Htc doesn't want to waste resources supporting old hardware, sprint doesn't want you to reach end of contract. This is why they give upgrade pricing after one year in exchange for 2yr contract agreement. Android platform + this communit have given me the ability to keep a phone for 2yrs with minimal discomfort.

USAF22 said:
Maybe I am slightly bitter, especially that the poor Hero support came after my first HTC phone, the Touch Pro, broke on 4 separate occasions, the first two were within 30 days, so Sprint replaced it, but the 3rd time it took 3 weeks to send to HTC and get it back, after a maze of tech support calls.
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Wait a second... Why the heck would you EVER have to send the phone in to HTC? If it's under warranty, Sprint repair stores handle it for you. If there's no repair stores near you, care cross-ships you out a new (or refurb) phone. You shouldn't have to be without a phone for more than a day, max.

entropism said:
Wait a second... Why the heck would you EVER have to send the phone in to HTC? If it's under warranty, Sprint repair stores handle it for you. If there's no repair stores near you, care cross-ships you out a new (or refurb) phone. You shouldn't have to be without a phone for more than a day, max.
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Because it was about 6 months after we bought it, and it we don't buy the warranties. So we called Sprint, and they told us that the only thing they would do is sell us a new phone for full retail, and specifically asked about a loaner or something, and they said that was only for people with warranties. They said the only thing we could do is send it to HTC, so that is what we had to do.

As a rebuttal, you can put 2.2 on a hero, and have everything work. I'm doing that now to get used to not having sense. Sure it doesn't top the charts and 3d games suck on it, but there are plenty 2d games on the market that work fine, you can watch movies that look and sound fine on it if you take the time to convert them properly. Plus, I haven't had any issues with lag, especially with the keyboard. The stock android one us much better than htc's ime.apk in that aspect. And it probably has to do with the haptic feedback. I typed this on my phone and it doesn't feel like a chore.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

rufflez2010 said:
As a rebuttal, you can put 2.2 on a hero, and have everything work. I'm doing that now to get used to not having sense. Sure it doesn't top the charts and 3d games suck on it, but there are plenty 2d games on the market that work fine, you can watch movies that look and sound fine on it if you take the time to convert them properly. Plus, I haven't had any issues with lag, especially with the keyboard. The stock android one us much better than htc's ime.apk in that aspect. And it probably has to do with the haptic feedback. I typed this on my phone and it doesn't feel like a chore.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
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Thats not what the OP is talking about...he has Hero running 2.2 as well..if you read he says manufacturer support..NOT community support...

gTen said:
Thats not what the OP is talking about...he has Hero running 2.2 as well..if you read he says manufacturer support..NOT community support...
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Thanks again gTen, and rufflez, I have already said how much I love the devs here and on other forums, and all the work they put into the platform, but the operating system is always the best when based on official kernels and and drivers. And it shouldn't be up to the community to support the devices after such a short time. They should improve on work done by the manufacturer, but they shouldn't be solely responsible for the device's advancements.

Dell Venue Pro - UK Release - DELAYED :(

Looks like there is major issues with getting parts for these new phones, wifi issues and no expandable Micro SD (without voiding warranty).. DVP has been delayed till January 2011 in UK.
I'm feeling a little sorry for MS at moment, they've put alot of work in to this OS and they have been really let down by there handset Partners. Should have gone with one phone and one manufacturer like the G1 and the Iphone 1.0, got a platform that worked and a good handset.... then developed from there. MS's partners have saturated the market with bad handsets and it would seem they done have the stock to sell them either. Orange UK always seems to be out of stock on their online store.
What they seem to have is the titanic, great in theory but due to substandard build quality it will sink.
I've been looking forward to a qwerty phone for a while, had the SPV E650 with Wimo 5.0 and loved it.... but im really doubting the build of these new phones... that being said played with an Omnia 7 the other day and thought it was great....
Here's the acticle I got my info about delays from.. take a read if you like and post any thoughts you may have.
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/dell-venue-pro-delayed-in-the-uk-due-to-component-supply

We've known that for a few days, it's been discussed in other threads (the UK delay I mean).
Otherwise I totally agree with you about Microsoft being let down by manufacturers, they just went for minimum specs and we just have ok WP7 devices (a couple of 16GB phones and no 32GB, are you serious?). I am particularly disappointed in HTC as they usually create amazing phones. I guess that's why people are excited about the Venue Pro, it seems to be clearly above the rest.
2nd gen can't come soon enough.

sorry didn't realize it had been mentioned already, did look through titles but didn't see anything specific. My Bad on double posting, cheers for heads up
As for the handsets.. im starting to think Im gonna go with Omnia 7, its looking a lot more appealing and i can deal with lack of keyboard. The screen on it is beautiful.
2nd Gen is a great thing to have but I'm at end of my contract this week, so need a new phone now... also been waiting a year for WP7 to come out and starting to get a bit impatient lol.

I'm in the same position, contact ends this month and been waiting for WP7 since I can't remember. That said, got the HD7 for my wife so I at least have one around that I can play with to partly sate my hunger!!
The DVP did seem to be the perfect device that I was looking for (I struggle without hardware keyboards although I have to say that the soft keyboard on WP7 is much better than any I've used before). So annoyed that it's delayed so badly, but I think I will resist jumping in with a device that's not quite what I want, and wait for the new year, and maybe some rivals to the DVP when it finally arrives!

rob_p said:
I think I will resist jumping in with a device that's not quite what I want, and wait for the new year, and maybe some rivals to the DVP when it finally arrives!
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My thought exactly. I'm tempted by the HD7 because it's available now and with 16GB but really I want a Venue Pro so I'll wait... unless I import .

well im resonably happy to say that I rang orange today and got an Omnia 7 upgrade for £9.99, with good contract. Seems MS are going with Cloud storage these days which is why they handsets have small HDD's.. i can live with that along as I can get on WIFI lol..
So i will now wait untill the next incarnation of the DVP and see what that has too offer, maybe they will be on 3rd gen by then

Darknight247 said:
Seems MS are going with Cloud storage these days which is why they handsets have small HDD's.. i can live with that along as I can get on WIFI lol..(
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I have a Zune HD with 8GB of music on it, if I get a WP7 I want it to also be my Zune so I need at least a 16GB device

Bad news about the lack of memory card on this as it was the main reason I was considering it over the other WP7 devices.