Database Users

TF not waking up. Sleep of Death?

Hi for some reason I cant get my TF to turn on! It was working fine all day. I left work and placed the TF in sleep mode (hitting the button) When I got home about 15 mins later, I hit the power button and nothing. I read about the Sleep of Death but this is the first time Ive had this. I try holding onto the power button for 10 seconds and then releasing it and then held it for another few seconds and nothing. I even try holding the power button for one mins and then releasing it and hitting it again and nothing. I had bout 35% battery life before heading home.
I plug it into my notebook and i get the prompt the auto play message on windows 7. double click on the TF TF101 icon and I cant see any folders. On the asus sync program it tells me no device is found. While its plugged into the notebook I held onto the power button and I get that sound coming from windows (usb sound) then I get a sound coming out of my TF and the auto play message pop up. I cant even get it to go into recovery mode (vol down + power) I am on 3.1 leaked and no root. Any other suggestion before I call Asus. Thanks

Try charging it for a few hours, the battery might've drained due to some apps keeping wifi on for the whole time (using WakeLock)

frosty5689 said:
Try charging it for a few hours, the battery might've drained due to some apps keeping wifi on for the whole time (using WakeLock)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Doing it right now. Its weird when I have it plug into my notebook. While holding the power button it will disconnect from my notebook (no longer visible in my computer) then pressing the power button again its pop up with the auto play message and i get a sound from the speakers of the TF...one of those default sound on the TF. (new email alert sound) but the screen is still black. I also trying hooking it up to my TV to see if I could get a picture and no...
OKAY got a picture now with the hdmi input but no picture on the TF. I have the pattern lock screen. do i disable it? I am able tole move around but trying to find out how to disable the pattern lock screen.

yea maybe you just drained it too much. i bet a long chargewill remedy this
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App

X7og said:
yea maybe you just drained it too much. i bet a long chargewill remedy this
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am at 50% and still no picture on the tf. Now when I try to enter my pattern for the lock screen its turning red not green like before....wtf reboot and still cant get in.

Just to share, a similar but less drastic thing happened when i got mine.
Tried it at the shop for about 5 minutes just to check everything worked fine. Packed it back into the box and took it home. About half a day later, at night when i officially unboxed it,it refused to turn on. no sound, no lights, nada. when i turned it off at the store, it still showed about 50+% battery remaining.
Same thing if i attached it to the dock.
So i left it stuck into the dock (just so i can confirm that it's charging) and left it to charge for about 15mins (while worrying that i might have a DOA TF).
The light was a steady amber from the get go, meaning >95% charge.
Anyway, left it to charge for about 15-20 minutes while trying every combination i could think of, short, 10 seconds, 1 min, more than 1 mins..
Long story short, after a while, it booted up with a 10second press of the power button.... left it to charge overnight (>8 hrs first charge) and it's been fine since.
Good luck with yours.

Okay reboot again. and its not take my pattern for the lock screen. touch the first circle and its red. and it tells me to try again...wtf....normally its turn green on the circle (the first one) now its red.

Looks like my screen is dead....smh.. I am able to see the lock screen via hdmi but its not taking my lock pattern. Every circle I hit turns red (error I guess) I dont know what else to do. I try doing a factory reset (volume down and power button at the same time) but I cant get a display on my tv when i am trying to access his mode. I called Asus and got a RMA... Just wondering do i need to send in the wall charger and usb cable too? Before sending it in does anyone know what else I could do??? Thanks

Nexus 4 wont turn on

Hey everyone, Im having a problem thats making me worry. I was using my phone today and for some reason the phone wont turn on after I turned it off. I havent dropped the phone at all and it hasnt been abused in any way. The last thing I was doing before I turned it off was trying to send feedback for the Yahoo Mail app because it wouldnt sync automatically, but even that was unsuccessful because it wouldnt send. So I thought I should just reboot it but afterwards its not turning on at all.
I tried holding the power button for at least 20 seconds and still nothing is happening, and I tried plugging in the power cord to see if that would help but it hasnt. Has anyone gone through a similar issue? Please Help
Thanks.

Leave it plugged in for fifteen minutes without touching it.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Try holding volume up + power to see if you can get into recovery then reboot from there.
Also, give some more details about your setup...
Rooted/Stock/What Rom/Kernel?

Yea I left it alone for a bit and then I held the power button while holding down both volume rockers and somehow it turned on. I dont know why this happened but I'm just glad it turned back on, it gave me a good scare though. I just hope it doesnt happen again

Mine is completely stock, I havent done anything with it yet

And may I ask what was your battery percentage level like after the short charge? Maybe the phone drained it all just being turned off... There were some cases of this here...

i wanted to add that i had a similar problem with my phone not turning back on. However, I managed to fix what was wrong by just plugging in the usb cable. I know you've tried it, but just in case someone else stumbles upon this thread (like me!) and has a problem turning on their nexus, I wanted to share my experience.
I haven't done anything to my phone other than add my old apps to my Nexus since I received it 1.5 weeks ago. It's stock. I've never dropped it or gotten water on it or anything. I charged it overnight last night and stuck it in my purse on the way to work. I think I briefly saw a working screen after I unplugged it this morning. However, the first time I tried to access my phone today was after I got to work. It wouldn't turn on, though that pinkish light at the bottom was still blinking. I tried calling it and the Nexus wouldn't ring even though the call went through a few rings and then onto voicemail. I tried holding down the power button for a while and also holding the power button with the volume keys to see if that would work, and it did not. Finally I borrowed a usb cable to plug it in, hoping the jolt of power would wake it up. That worked. It gave me the charging symbol for a little bit and then gave me the startup/loading screen with the glowing x made of arrows. I checked my battery and it was at full charge. Well, it was at 85%, which is odd since I plugged it in for about 9 hours last night to charge and there has only been 3 hours of non-use since I unplugged it. Also, if it was really turned off during those 3 hours it shouldn't have ate up any battery. Anyway, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents in case anyone else has this problem. My brother, who gave me the Nexus, told me that he only has 2 weeks to return it if there's something wrong with it or I don't like it. Needless to say this gave me a scare, since the 2 weeks is almost up.

Money2g said:
Hey everyone, Im having a problem thats making me worry. I was using my phone today and for some reason the phone wont turn on after I turned it off. I havent dropped the phone at all and it hasnt been abused in any way. The last thing I was doing before I turned it off was trying to send feedback for the Yahoo Mail app because it wouldnt sync automatically, but even that was unsuccessful because it wouldnt send. So I thought I should just reboot it but afterwards its not turning on at all.
I tried holding the power button for at least 20 seconds and still nothing is happening, and I tried plugging in the power cord to see if that would help but it hasnt. Has anyone gone through a similar issue? Please Help
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes this happened to me the other night. I was making a phone call and accidentally hit the power button. I then tried to turn the screen back on in order to hang up the phone and it would work. I tried holding the button for 15 seconds, tried pressing the volume up/down keys, and still nothing. I then put it back in my pocket for a minute or so and tried again. When I did that the screen came back on and the call was still active. Very strange, and I hope it doesnt happen again....

Money2g said:
Hey everyone, Im having a problem thats making me worry. I was using my phone today and for some reason the phone wont turn on after I turned it off. I havent dropped the phone at all and it hasnt been abused in any way. The last thing I was doing before I turned it off was trying to send feedback for the Yahoo Mail app because it wouldnt sync automatically, but even that was unsuccessful because it wouldnt send. So I thought I should just reboot it but afterwards its not turning on at all.
I tried holding the power button for at least 20 seconds and still nothing is happening, and I tried plugging in the power cord to see if that would help but it hasnt. Has anyone gone through a similar issue? Please Help
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same thing is happening to me right now.
Running stock. Not rooted. Phone charge was around 70% and I was on twitter and the app force closed. So I decided to restart my phone then went to turn it back on and it wont respond. Tried holding down the power button for 20 sec. Volume up and power, volume down and all 3 at the same time. Still nothing. Leaving it on the charger for awhile and the screen is blank no battery logo or anything.
Not quite sure what to do now?

That's scary

shotlimesalt said:
Same thing is happening to me right now.
Running stock. Not rooted. Phone charge was around 70% and I was on twitter and the app force closed. So I decided to restart my phone then went to turn it back on and it wont respond. Tried holding down the power button for 20 sec. Volume up and power, volume down and all 3 at the same time. Still nothing. Leaving it on the charger for awhile and the screen is blank no battery logo or anything.
Not quite sure what to do now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plug it in with the original charger, leave it alone for a couple of hours, try again.
Sent from my Nexus 4

I get the same. I use Dophin Browser . After that i reboot my Nexus 4.
I try to hold Power Button for 1 minutes or more. But nothing change. I
I try hold Power + Volum Down - or Volum + but get same result.
I plug in Adater and wait for it. I will check it 2 hour later.
My Nexus 4 use Stock Rom, Rooted. and this first i get this problem. Please advise me on this case. Thank
:laugh:

I'm having similar problems. Lots of random rebooting and refusals to turn back on sometimes, even though the LED at the bottom is flashing so i know the phone is still powered up. Also, sometimes when i have it plugged into a computer through usb it will get extremely hot and completely shut down, not turning back on for a long time. I called the google play store and someone is going to get back to me. I love my nexus 4 so i hope i can get this fixed or a replacement.

Nexus 4 crashed and would not power on
shinobi-wan said:
I'm having similar problems. Lots of random rebooting and refusals to turn back on sometimes, even though the LED at the bottom is flashing so i know the phone is still powered up. Also, sometimes when i have it plugged into a computer through usb it will get extremely hot and completely shut down, not turning back on for a long time. I called the google play store and someone is going to get back to me. I love my nexus 4 so i hope i can get this fixed or a replacement.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had this issue too a couple of times playing Pandora through my car's Bluetooth. That was when the Nexus 4 had 4.2.1. I have not had this issue with Pandora since the upgrade to 4.2.2.
However, I just now had this issue with Movie Studio app and exporting a video I edited. It turned off its screen like normal screen timeout but then would not come back on.
I had to Volume Up + Power button for a few seconds and then release to get it to reboot.

This same thing is happening to me. Haven't found a specific cause...

Just got the same issue
Today got mine not turning on.
Managed to turn it on by holding volume up and power button together for about 30 seconds while phone was on a stock charger. After that I saw blinking orange led. When I resolved buttons there was a battery pictogram. After pressing and holding power button I finally got turning on vibration and Google logo.
The only things a made after the charging were making few photos of my cat (from the lock screen) viewing them in gallery. Then I locked the screen and put the phone on a shelf. In a hour I was not able to turn it on.
My phone has stock rom and only few third party apps installed.
I got muy Nexus 4 on 21-Dec-2012. 4 days ago I flashed to Android 4.2.2 which phone dowloaded itself. After flashing phone was rebooted.
What I noticed is that it shows 70% battery. But It was fully charged few hours ago.
30% in 2 hours! In my opinion some service/app drained these 30% by using 100% of processing power that caused overheating and/or hanging.

I too have just had this problem. And I've had it previously when making calls, the screen simply won't respond at all, its quite annoying.
This morning my alarm went off and the screen wouldn't turn on, it went on for so long I almost threw the phone across the room. I eventually held the power button and volume down/up button and then the led blinked orange a few times and the phone reset, now it seems fine.
Its a very annoying problem, and could be very serious depending on what you are doing, might have to phone the play store and tell them.

Money2g said:
Hey everyone, Im having a problem thats making me worry. I was using my phone today and for some reason the phone wont turn on after I turned it off. I havent dropped the phone at all and it hasnt been abused in any way. The last thing I was doing before I turned it off was trying to send feedback for the Yahoo Mail app because it wouldnt sync automatically, but even that was unsuccessful because it wouldnt send. So I thought I should just reboot it but afterwards its not turning on at all.
I tried holding the power button for at least 20 seconds and still nothing is happening, and I tried plugging in the power cord to see if that would help but it hasnt. Has anyone gone through a similar issue? Please Help
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has happened to me twice now. First time was a month ago and the second time was this morning. Phone was at 100% just woke up checked my messages turned off phone 10 min later it will not turn on. Un plugged cord re plugged cord nothing finally pressed up/down vol and power for about a minute (long minute) and the phone rebooted. YIKES!
Every thing seems normal now but I hate that scare and the fact that it has happened to me twice. Full Stock, not rooted.

zz_zz_ said:
Today got mine not turning on.
Managed to turn it on by holding volume up and power button together for about 30 seconds while phone was on a stock charger. After that I saw blinking orange led. When I resolved buttons there was a battery pictogram. After pressing and holding power button I finally got turning on vibration and Google logo.
The only things a made after the charging were making few photos of my cat (from the lock screen) viewing them in gallery. Then I locked the screen and put the phone on a shelf. In a hour I was not able to turn it on.
My phone has stock rom and only few third party apps installed.
I got muy Nexus 4 on 21-Dec-2012. 4 days ago I flashed to Android 4.2.2 which phone dowloaded itself. After flashing phone was rebooted.
What I noticed is that it shows 70% battery. But It was fully charged few hours ago.
30% in 2 hours! In my opinion some service/app drained these 30% by using 100% of processing power that caused overheating and/or hanging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Happened second time.
I was able to turn it on again by following the same steps. But this time I got some strange issue: after resolving vol+ and power buttons I saw battery pictogram with some frame with a blue background; when phone finally booted up this frame and blue background were visible through the my desktop background an screen itself was much lighter with pure colors. Only after about 5 soft resets screen seems to became nice again. Each reboot caused blue frame to become less visible. I'm confused and worried.
Also during all these reboots this frame with blue background was visible even in behind "Google" and "X" logos during booting up.
Another strange thing is that on screenshots I made this frame is not visible.

That would have to do with LCD or software..
As the battery & Google are just pictures that change. If you understand what in saying lol ?
Nexus⁴

TPT won't power on?

Hi all,
My TPT this morning for some weird reason stopped turning on. I plugged it into my dock. When it's in the off state it shows the charging logo. But when I go and turn it on, the screen stays black with no Lenovo bootup logo. The red dot in the back of the tablet however, is on when I switch it on. I initially thought that the power drained but I've been charging it for an hour and it still doesn't boot up. Any suggestions? Thanks

Press the tiny button next to the SD-card and then try and start the TPT. You might be in bootloader.
Otherwise, maybe your display cable became disconnected inside. Easy to do or fix if you've opened it up.

pwstein said:
Press the tiny button next to the SD-card and then try and start the TPT. You might be in bootloader.
Otherwise, maybe your display cable became disconnected inside. Easy to do or fix if you've opened it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried resetting, no dice.
Also I don't think its a display problem. Since when its off and I plug it into my dock the charging logo does show up for 5 seconds. Also, when I turn it on, there's no vibrate that the TPT usually does. I noticed that the red light only stays on for maybe 10 seconds then goes dim again

alexander.euclid said:
Tried resetting, no dice.
Also I don't think its a display problem. Since when its off and I plug it into my dock the charging logo does show up for 5 seconds. Also, when I turn it on, there's no vibrate that the TPT usually does. I noticed that the red light only stays on for maybe 10 seconds then goes dim again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay so this is definitely weird. I just plugged it into my PC and via USB and it actually started up! But when I unplug it from my PC it acts the same as before... battery indicates a full charge in android though...

If your controller wont turn on

Charged my contoller overnight and today it wouldnt turn on. This scared me and thought my contoller broke. After googling I found a fix.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/837081/shield-controller-wont-turn-on/
Basically hold the power button for about a minute. Mine took about 30 seconds and it turned back on.
Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk

Thanks thought my controller was dead
Sent from my SM-P600 using XDA Free mobile app

Thank you a million time for this post. I thought mine is dead too! Working now! =)

You're a life saver thanks
Sent from my SM-G930V using XDA-Developers mobile app

You're the man, I also noticed that holding it down for a minute didn't work, so what I did was hold down the symbol and plug it into the charger and the light came on. Thanks a lot for this bro!

lol thats how you pair them anyway...no?

i have a seperate issue but just as i started writing this i think i know the solution lol. my nvidia shield tv remote (not controller) stopped working months back but i think i read that it connects by bluetooth so as i have sixaxis paired to my ps3 controller automatically at boot im guessing this has over written the bluetooth i can use to connect the remote

My god, thank you so much !

There is also a "factory reset" type feature. If you hold the home and back button for about 30 seconds. You will then have to re-pair the controller to the shield.
Also, if your controller Nvidia logo lights up, but the home, back, and play button do not power on, holding the logo button for 15 seconds or so will fix that issue each occurance. Temporary fix to the problem of unknown cause!

Well, I have a problem. For 2 days now my Shield controller is no more paired to the Shield TV.
That only works on USB but no more in BT. And when I try to pair the two devices there is only lights flashing.
I have try your advice for reset the controller, and I have updated it on my computer but nothing change...
Does someone have an Idea please ?

I had a similar thing a few weeks back. I thought it was dead but after leaving everything unplugged over night and then repeating the pairing process (for the 50th time!) it just worked again suddenly.

I had the same problem with my nVidia Shield TV Pro 2017 after I turned it off. However, after plugging in the game controller and leaving it in for about 10-15 seconds - it starts up on its own. No need to do anything else. Clearly this device was not meant to be turned off under normal circumstances

aznmode said:
Charged my contoller overnight and today it wouldnt turn on. This scared me and thought my contoller broke. After googling I found a fix.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/837081/shield-controller-wont-turn-on/
Basically hold the power button for about a minute. Mine took about 30 seconds and it turned back on.
Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much saved me from spending on a replacement!!

Have shield controller looks dead.. charge light works, sometime shows amber or green. But doesnt power up with all tricks tried.
i tried to touch nvidia shield logo for 30s, 1min, 2min still it didnt light up. please help guys!!!!

karthik4yu said:
Have shield controller looks dead.. charge light works, sometime shows amber or green. But doesnt power up with all tricks tried.
i tried to touch nvidia shield logo for 30s, 1min, 2min still it didnt light up. please help guys!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mine is not turning on after doing all of the mentioned above. the orange light indicator works though but its not turning on anymore. any advice?

Rooted now frozen in Installing Screen. Cannot restart.

Few weeks ago I found wife's old NST (non-glowlight model) in working order and decided to root it. Rooted it, played around with it. Wasnt too impressed, so just threw some ebooks for my kid to read while on vacation. Left it on my desk for a few weeks as I got busy with work. Today I picked it up as my son's vacation is next week and it's frozen on the "Installing... A new software update is being installed This will take a few minutes" screen.
I mean I googled for several hours, the hold the power button for 20 sec method....the hold the power and the "n" button method, I charged it, indicator light is green. I even opened it up and pulled the battery cable..... NOTHING WORKS...]
Please help. So weird...it was working fine and now frozen.

KEVIN88GT said:
Few weeks ago I found wife's old NST (non-glowlight model) in working order and decided to root it. Rooted it, played around with it. Wasnt too impressed, so just threw some ebooks for my kid to read while on vacation. Left it on my desk for a few weeks as I got busy with work. Today I picked it up as my son's vacation is next week and it's frozen on the "Installing... A new software update is being installed This will take a few minutes" screen.
I mean I googled for several hours, the hold the power button for 20 sec method....the hold the power and the "n" button method, I charged it, indicator light is green. I even opened it up and pulled the battery cable..... NOTHING WORKS...]
Please help. So weird...it was working fine and now frozen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The real question is whether it is actually still on or off. What happens when you connect it to a PC via USB?

nmyshkin said:
The real question is whether it is actually still on or off. What happens when you connect it to a PC via USB?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only the green charging light goes on. I do not hear the little sound it should make when making a successful USB connection.

KEVIN88GT said:
Only the green charging light goes on. I do not hear the little sound it should make when making a successful USB connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I guess the drives don't mount successfully. Well, disconnecting the battery should certainly turn it off. If reconnecting makes it start spontaneously (should not), you could prepare a Nook Manager sdcard and insert it before reconnecting the battery. But this sort of sounds like the ability to boot is lost. Hmmm. I'll have to think about it.

unfortunately disconnecting the battery does not appear to do anything... screen continues to show that 'Installing... " screen. Hoping to get this thing figured out with someone's help

KEVIN88GT said:
unfortunately disconnecting the battery does not appear to do anything... screen continues to show that 'Installing... " screen. Hoping to get this thing figured out with someone's help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
E-ink screens stay the same unless there is a new powered input so it could simply be off, having run the battery down completely during an update (maybe Wi-Fi was left on? That would run down the battery for sure). So if all of this happened during an OTA update, it could be really messed up
When my NST is off, plugging in the power pack turns it on. Initially the LED is green and then changes to orange as charging begins. I'm assuming nothing happens when you do the same. If the OS is scrambled from losing power during an update it may not be able to boot. You didn't say how you rooted. If you used Nook Manager you could try putting in that card and then connecting to the power pack, hoping for a boot from the SD card. If you got that far you could try a factory reset.
My power button is sometimes really cranky and a few times I've run through my entire stock of words that do not come from children's books trying to get the device to turn on. So you might try, but if it's really off the power pack should turn it on.
Edit: Take a look at this: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1813384

nmyshkin said:
E-ink screens stay the same unless there is a new powered input so it could simply be off, having run the battery down completely during an update (maybe Wi-Fi was left on? That would run down the battery for sure). So if all of this happened during an OTA update, it could be really messed up
When my NST is off, plugging in the power pack turns it on. Initially the LED is green and then changes to orange as charging begins. I'm assuming nothing happens when you do the same. If the OS is scrambled from losing power during an update it may not be able to boot. You didn't say how you rooted. If you used Nook Manager you could try putting in that card and then connecting to the power pack, hoping for a boot from the SD card. If you got that far you could try a factory reset.
My power button is sometimes really cranky and a few times I've run through my entire stock of words that do not come from children's books trying to get the device to turn on. So you might try, but if it's really off the power pack should turn it on.
Edit: Take a look at this: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1813384
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I plug in the power cable the light just becomes green it never (not even for a split second) turns orange. Yes, I'm rooted using nook manager. I just suck my Nook Manager SD card in the nook but nothing happens. I'm not sure what you mean by using the power button, in my original post I mentioned I tried the power button with no luck. What do you mean by power pack?

KEVIN88GT said:
When I plug in the power cable the light just becomes green it never (not even for a split second) turns orange. Yes, I'm rooted using nook manager. I just suck my Nook Manager SD card in the nook but nothing happens. I'm not sure what you mean by using the power button, in my original post I mentioned I tried the power button with no luck. What do you mean by power pack?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Power pack = charger.
So if the Nook is actually off, attaching the charger with the NM card inserted should make it boot. Did you try the procedure in the link above?

Just tried the procedure of unplugging the battery, holding the white power button for 30 secs, then connecting battery and connecting to charger. There is a split second orange light and then green the first time i plug it in....subsequent plugging results in always green....the issue with the frozen screen on "Installing" remains. Tried the holding x 20 secs method to promt a restart....nothing.... what else can I do?

KEVIN88GT said:
Just tried the procedure of unplugging the battery, holding the white power button for 30 secs, then connecting battery and connecting to charger. There is a split second orange light and then green the first time i plug it in....subsequent plugging results in always green....the issue with the frozen screen on "Installing" remains. Tried the holding x 20 secs method to promt a restart....nothing.... what else can I do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the battery is actually "dead" (not impossible on these old devices), the NST will not start, even if plugged in. Do you have a voltmeter of some sort to check the battery? If it's actually charged, it should show a solid voltage. If not, that may be the issue. If the battery is actually charged then there's a pretty serious issue that can't be fixed without access to the OS by ADB, or the ability to boot from the SD card. Beyond my "pay grade", at any rate, I'm sorry to say. There are batteries available online but the price may not make sense.

I don't think it's a battery issue. I had another NST with a good battery but a bad screen (lines all across screen) . I fully charged it using the bad screen reader and used the battery from it for the frozen nook... no luck.. oh well... I guess this is a paperweight now... thanks for your help everyone.