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Apple rolls out v4.0 of their iPhone OS for dev preview and finally, multitasking will be officially available. Seems like a lot of changes in security, performance and feature updates.
1. Multitasking (apple claims that its going to be best at this, just like copy/paste). They also admit that it might make the phone's performance sluggish.
2. Phone's notification bar now shows if someone requested for its location.
3. Fast App Switching allows an app to save its session and resume from there later.
4. Drag and drop app icons in custom folders. That means you can now have any number of apps. When you run out of space, just create a folder any drag apps into them. (There is something more but i didn't make what Steve was trying to explain.
5. Unified inbox for several mail clients, including fast inbox switching to focus on a specific client. Attachments can now be opened with a third party app. Support for multiple Exchange accounts and some VPN options.
6. iBooks on iPhone.
7. More privileges to developers including interaction with calendar, photo library, quicklook etc. Over 1500 new APIs and a new framework for hardware accelerated math function (called accelerate).
8. Better gaming with social gaming network.
9. iAds, thats delivers mobile advertisements with emotions (I don't know what Steve meant by this).
10. Create playlists, 5x digital zoom, tap to focus on video, gift apps, geotagging, places in the photo app, change the homescreen wallpaper, bluetooth keyboards, spell checker etc.
There are over 100 new updates, these were the only ones revealed at the event.
Some of the features are really funny, like folders, wallpapers, playlists, geotagging, spell checker. What I don't get is that Android already supports all of these features (other than the iCraps) but new versions of Android aren't as anticipated as iPhone's OS. Seems like Google really needs some good marketing strategies.
Yeah I agree.
It annoys me how much of a cult that apple has following its every move. Even if they don't come out with the best product they have so many sheep that will buy their products at the drop of a hat it doesn't matter how inferior their products are. Dunno if I would even want Google followers to become sheep like they are with Apple.
If Google did the same thing and put together keynotes / apple style events and focused on a few particular products then I could see it but there's a big difference between the two: Apple is a hardware company, Google is a advertising company. Hard for Google to have Keynotes about its Android operating system when most of the devices aren't even on the latest version.
Perhaps FroYo will change this...
Is this coming to the current iphone or just for hte next-gen iphone?
INeedYourHelp said:
Is this coming to the current iphone or just for hte next-gen iphone?
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Its coming out for current phones this summer...
faraz1992 said:
Its coming out for current phones this summer...
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not every feature. i believe they said multitasking will only be on the new version.
I do believe that Apples announcement is very much an update full of catchup!
Certainly pretty much all features announced android can do natively!
The problem I have and i'm by no means an apple fanboy as I have an N1 and love it sinece coming from my 3GS is that the android implementation needs to be way more polished.
Exchange support for me is a biggy and needs to be much better the HTC Desire ROM is much improved over stock google one for the N1 but still room for improvement.
I would like all my email in one exchange and gmail in one app rather than have to flick between two different apps.
but hey!
ap3604 said:
Yeah I agree.
It annoys me how much of a cult that apple has following its every move. Even if they don't come out with the best product they have so many sheep that will buy their products at the drop of a hat it doesn't matter how inferior their products are. Dunno if I would even want Google followers to become sheep like they are with Apple.
If Google did the same thing and put together keynotes / apple style events and focused on a few particular products then I could see it but there's a big difference between the two: Apple is a hardware company, Google is a advertising company. Hard for Google to have Keynotes about its Android operating system when most of the devices aren't even on the latest version.
Perhaps FroYo will change this...
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I agree here, I don't know if I want Android to have slaves around it like Apple - those Apple fanboys tend to get irritating, and hearing Android ones wouldn't be too soothing either..
Google is hiring a marketing manager, OP, let's just hope they don't go overboard. Just enough to bring Android more into the eyes of the public.
Eclair~ said:
I agree here, I don't know if I want Android to have slaves around it like Apple - those Apple fanboys tend to get irritating, and hearing Android ones wouldn't be too soothing either..
Google is hiring a marketing manager, OP, let's just hope they don't go overboard. Just enough to bring Android more into the eyes of the public.
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Yes, we need to always remind google that it does have flaws, and that it needs improve its core apps.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not going to buy a nexus 2 unless that phone wows me just like the n1 did.
jz9833 said:
not every feature. i believe they said multitasking will only be on the new version.
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multi on 3GS and the 4th gen
zachthemaster said:
multi on 3GS and the 4th gen
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No multi for 3g??? I thought it had a good processor....
@faraz1992 - Not good enough it would seem.
Looks like iPhone OS 4 is bringing the iPhone up to par with my Nokia 3330 though ;-p
Google really should advertise the Android OS. iPhones are a joke in comparison. Its taken until version 4 to be able to change the home screen?!?! UNBELIEVABLE!
Just sayin'
All of you complaining about fanboys, are acting like fanboys yourselves. So, umm, STFU you morons
bobtentpeg said:
Just sayin'
All of you complaining about fanboys, are acting like fanboys yourselves. So, umm, STFU you morons
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Ooo "stfu", you are definitely not an immature moron. This is an Android section, obviously the people here will have more interest in Android and more hate in Apple. Even if they are acting like fanboys, their statements are quite true.
This fourth OS is nothing too spectacular - many features it contains are already preset in Android, and many other phone that have been out for a while, now just because Apple is announcing it - it is seen as something of amazement..
Why is this posted in nexus forum?
Doc
Thanks for the post. A very interesting topic indeed.
Even with all the problems I've had with my Nexus One (Touch input indexed incorrectly, Phone locking up during phone calls via Google Voice) I doubt I would ever even think about switching back to the iphone much less actually do it.
That said, I believe Google could benefit greatly by adopting 2 apple iphone platform paradigms (say that 3 times fast)
1) A more rigorous app store review process. Too much crap makes it way to the Android app store in my opinion. Google should review each app to ensure it meets certain quality measurements both in interface design and "under the hood". Apple, and thus the iphone platform, benefits greatly from being able to ensure end users that any app they use from their store will work with the phone and will meet apple's very high (almost too high) quality standards. I doubt very many of us can honestly argue that apple doesn't make a product that is great to use. Apple's stuff glistens and people want stuff that glistens...or at least I do!
2) Funnel all payments through Google and then back out to the developers. the iphone app store again benefits greatly from the fact that any purchase you make goes through your iTunes account. You never have to try and fumble around trying to key in a credit card number directly into the phone and you can be sure you information is safe (or at least is only in one database). Simply said, it simplifies the process. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of mass consumerism but the iphone app store, because of what I said in my first item and because of what I stated in the second lends itself greatly to impulse buying or, at the very least, kills having to debate whether you feel like whipping out your credit card, keying all the information in, submitting, worrying about where your data is going, etc. etc. I can buy with confidence. And when I buy I want to be confident about what I'm getting and I want the process to be fast and simple. the iphone app store is fast and simple.
anyway, again a great topic.
DaveKid said:
Doc
2) Funnel all payments through Google and then back out to the developers. the iphone app store again benefits greatly from the fact that any purchase you make goes through your iTunes account. You never have to try and fumble around trying to key in a credit card number directly into the phone and you can be sure you information is safe (or at least is only in one database). Simply said, it simplifies the process.
anyway, again a great topic.
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But you don't have to type your CC number in to buy an app all the time?
I have my card stored on my google account I just clicked 'buy' or am I misreading your post?
Amdathlonuk said:
But you don't have to type your CC number in to buy an app all the time?
I have my card stored on my google account I just clicked 'buy' or am I misreading your post?
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yes...my bad. It was assumed by me that we all know you don't ALWAYS have to type it in. Also, I believe there is a review process in place but again I assumed that we all know it isn't nearly as rigorous as with the iphone app store.
But I do want to add one more thing. Google should be funneling money into XDA!!!! this site and some others like it are the life blood of the android OS and it's popularization and customization. If Google were smart they would fund the development of the XDA site and get the main players involved on the payroll....(this assumes that anyone involved would actually like to be on their payroll. autonomy does have it's own set of niceties)
DocRambone said:
Why is this posted in nexus forum?
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Its posted in the nexus one forum so that we can make fun of what apple's newest update has to offer. People going crazy about this update because of features like wallpapers, folders and MULTITASKING, something that first generation android phones were capable of...
Does anyone find it ironic that nearly all HTC phones that are launching as part of the W7 campaign are essentially N1's loaded with w7.
All first gen snapdragons, they all share the N1 styling/materials.
Hopefully we can dual boot w7 due to the similarities. =D
I don't think they are but, I need to see a side by side. I thought most of the new w7 phones had better specs then the n1. But, of we have the best community of any phone out. That is why Google needs to make another dev phone it don't need to be called nexus two......
Check out engadget's front page, mozart,shobert,surround, trophy
Not terribly impressed with the W7 OS. From a UI standpoint, I could see the home screen getting very cluttered and I'm not sure if they have any sort of folder management system either to alleviate that. The multitouch zoom and kinetic scrolling in IE looked fluid but not having text reflow hurts. The Bing app was nice, as was the XBOX Live integration which is cool if you're into that but everything else was very meh. Didn't look awful like previous versions of WinMo but nothing that blew me away either. Still well behind Android and iOS even.
WP7 seems very solid in terms of how it is being handled. I love this quote:
http://twitter.com/edbott/statuses/27039322558
All Windows 7 phones will get updates at same time. Carriers don't get to block. (IOW, this ain't Android)
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I wish Google had the balls to do that.
Paul22000 said:
I wish Google had the balls to do that.
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Kind of reminds me of my favorite writer online: MG Seigler of TechCrunch
He really is the voice of the people and calls out Google for folding to the carrier demands like a guy with no confidence that gets walked all over by the hot girl (the carriers) that dont care about anyone else but herself
Here is a great article by MG Seigler on Andy Rubin making excuses for Google folding to whatever the carriers demand so that they can stay in bed with the enemy carriers: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/08/android-carriers/
Google really needs to grow a pair and take control of Android. A carrier holding out an OS update just so they can force up to purchase a new phone might be the norm but that doesn't mean its right or should be tolerated by Google
Google, by definition, can't control android, do you poeple not understand that?
JCopernicus said:
Google, by definition, can't control android, do you poeple not understand that?
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Damn straight.
JCopernicus said:
Google, by definition, can't control android, do you poeple not understand that?
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That's weird I wonder why I even got heated in my post above
I mean hell... thats the whole reason why I got the Nexus One! to not have to deal with carrier games anymore
You meant to say that they cant control android but wield a mighty big stick with gapps didnt you? I tried cm without gapps, pretty much cuts the nuts right off the little android leaving it ineffectual.
in-ef-fec-tu-al adjective 1 Weak. 2 Without satisfactory or decisive effect. 3 Powerless, impotent. 4 Insufficent to produce the desired result.
MS does something right for once in the smartphone arena. Can't we just give credit when it's due?
Text reflow? As far as I know even in CM I have to double tap the browser page to get it to reflow.
The UI looks sweet as hell and not having to worry about carrier tied updates?
Priceless.
I really didn't like the W7 UI, no place for wallpapers and that it's a very negative thing for me
It had a very nice style IMO. I doubt I'll move from my N1, but it's definitely gonna be an interesting game here on out.
ap3604 said:
Kind of reminds me of my favorite writer online: MG Seigler of TechCrunch
He really is the voice of the people and calls out Google for folding to the carrier demands like a guy with no confidence that gets walked all over by the hot girl (the carriers) that dont care about anyone else but herself
Here is a great article by MG Seigler on Andy Rubin making excuses for Google folding to whatever the carriers demand so that they can stay in bed with the enemy carriers: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/08/android-carriers/
Google really needs to grow a pair and take control of Android. A carrier holding out an OS update just so they can force up to purchase a new phone might be the norm but that doesn't mean its right or should be tolerated by Google
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So do you think you can just build AOSP and dump the result on any phone? No, it has to be tailored per-phone.. What changes there are between phones I wouldn't know, not a rom cook, but I suspect the complexity/time needed ranges from trivial to impossible (HW limitations).
So therefore, Google is not going to build, test, and deploy a build for every Android phone ever made. The carriers have NO INCENTIVE to support older phones.. They have gotten better about this, but they still have no reason to do it honestly, it's not like other industries where hardware sales lose money (printers, game systems, many others) and therefore they need to stretch the users experience with the hardware to the max. Phone sales net the carriers extended contracts and money.
JCopernicus said:
Google, by definition, can't control android, do you poeple not understand that?
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Actually they can, very easily:
Carrier/Manufacturer: Hey Google, we're going to release a phone with Android 1.5, replace your search with Bing, add some crap-ware, and remove a bunch of useful Android features!
Google: Oh really? Too bad your Android phone won't have Gmail, Google Maps, Google Talk, YouTube, Google Syncing, OR the Android Market!
Carrier/Manufacturer: Hmm...
Paul22000 said:
Actually they can, very easily:
Carrier/Manufacturer: Hey Google, we're going to release a phone with Android 1.5, replace your search with Bing, add some crap-ware, and remove a bunch of useful Android features!
Google: Oh really? Too bad your Android phone won't have Gmail, Google Maps, Google Talk, YouTube, Google Syncing, OR the Android Market!
Carrier/Manufacturer: Hmm...
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Verizon doesn't seem to care. This does work though it's how android took off. However, not having gapps is more detremental to Google than carriers. At this point in the game android can survive without native Google applications.
khaytsus said:
So do you think you can just build AOSP and dump the result on any phone? No, it has to be tailored per-phone.. What changes there are between phones I wouldn't know, not a rom cook, but I suspect the complexity/time needed ranges from trivial to impossible (HW limitations).
So therefore, Google is not going to build, test, and deploy a build for every Android phone ever made. The carriers have NO INCENTIVE to support older phones.. They have gotten better about this, but they still have no reason to do it honestly, it's not like other industries where hardware sales lose money (printers, game systems, many others) and therefore they need to stretch the users experience with the hardware to the max. Phone sales net the carriers extended contracts and money.
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So basically you're justifying carriers holding off hardware updates so that people can dump their 6 month old phone for a new one just to get from 2.1 to 2.2?
That's BS and you know it.
Android gets a new version every other month, and if they do this and leave older users in the dark with carriers blocking updates, Android is NEVER going to be real competition to iOS.
Hardware is just another BS excuse. 2.2 runs fine on even the HTC Dream.
mynameisjon said:
Android gets a new version every other month, and if they do this and leave older users in the dark with carriers blocking updates, Android is NEVER going to be real competition to iOS.
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Android sold more units in Q2 2010 than iOS, so surely its already real competition?
Is just me or is one of the biggest faults with android the various phone form factors that make it impossible to standardize any accessories? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be locked into a single phone running android but it seems the phone manufacturers could maybe design their phones so they have common ports for accessories. I guess we are lucky we at least got a desktop and car dock. Even cars are coming with iphone, ipad docks, you'll never see an android dock.
JCopernicus said:
Google, by definition, can't control android, do you poeple not understand that?
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Google, from a business perspective, doesn't need to control android.
its not its number one priority. yes it could try to twist the carrier's arms, and yes most would fold, but even if only 1 of the big 4 refuses to fold and stops carrying android devices google losses.
google doesnt make money off of android. it makes money off of ads. it just wants you to watch the ads through its portals. you might say they lose that when carriers choose bing over google, but really most of the ads (in apps, around the web) are controlled by google because google owns the online ad market. in fact, they will make money off of the spread of windows 7 phones as well. they entered the mobile business just to make sure neither apple nor microsoft could cut them out of the mobile internet user base and therefore limit the number of users viewing their ads.
btw we are in the nexus one section of xda, which by definition means you cant complain about waiting for updates and carrier and manufacturer crippling. (ha! see what i did there?)
Alright, I don't know how many threads there are on this, but I'm here just give my 2 cents. I don't own an Nexus S (but am hoping to buy one next week!).
Why Google went to Samsung for this phone:
Most importantly the screen. Obviously Android's main competitor here is Apple and the iPhone. Right now, the only 2 displays that really stand out in the market are the Retina Display, and the sAMOLED from Samsung. Samsung already has the technology and resources to create their competitive Super AMOLED screen, making them perfect for Google's need to compete with the RD.
The GPUs Samsung uses. Another reason why Apple is doing so well is because of the Appstore, and more specifically, the vast amount of games available on it. Gingerbread makes game-developing for android devs more extensive, and with the extremely capable GPUs Samsung is pumping out (GPUs better than that of the iPhone), it makes it a great manufacturer for Google to partner with to show their commitment to gaming.
Samsung's use of the Hummingbird. Google understands that it is more efficient than the Snapdragons, and is showing all manufacturers that Android will start to be shaped around the Hummingbird.
To show its diversity with manufacturers.
I don't think HTC was particularly interested in doing another "Nexus" phone.
Recognize Samsung for its commitment to Android
At the core though, it is all about competing with Apple. Google really needed to put something out there to compete with the iPhone 4 (with the FFC, processor, smoother OS, and gaming), a phone that won't be upgraded for 7-8 months. Yeah there were a lot of facepalms about this device (lack of the microSD slot, no HD recording, etc.), but other than that, this is the best Google can really do at this point. Google has released 2 Nexus phones within one year, so we can be sure that another one will be seen soon, to counter the iPhone 5.
nearblack said:
Alright, I don't know how many threads there are on this, but I'm here just give my 2 cents. I don't own an Nexus S (but am hoping to buy one next week!).
Why Google went to Samsung for this phone:
Most importantly the screen. Obviously Android's main competitor here is Apple and the iPhone. Right now, the only 2 displays that really stand out in the market are the Retina Display, and the sAMOLED from Samsung. Samsung already has the technology and resources to create their competitive Super AMOLED screen, making them perfect for Google's need to compete with the RD.
The GPUs Samsung uses. Another reason why Apple is doing so well is because of the Appstore, and more specifically, the vast amount of games available on it. Gingerbread makes game-developing for android devs more extensive, and with the extremely capable GPUs Samsung is pumping out (GPUs better than that of the iPhone), it makes it a great manufacturer for Google to partner with to show their commitment to gaming.
Samsung's use of the Hummingbird. Google understands that it is more efficient than the Snapdragons, and is showing all manufacturers that Android will start to be shaped around the Hummingbird.
To show its diversity.
I don't think HTC was particularly interested in doing another "Nexus" phone.
Recognize Samsung for its commitment to Android
At the core though, it is all about competing with Apple. Google really needed to put something out there to compete with the iPhone 4 (with the FFC, processor, smoother OS, and gaming), a phone that won't be upgraded for 7-8 months. Yeah there were a lot of facepalms about this device (lack of the microSD slot, no HD recording, etc.), but other than that, this is the best Google can really do at this point. Google has released 2 Nexus phones within one year, so we can be sure that another one will be seen soon, to counter the iPhone 5.
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I dont think its about competing with apple as much as it is showcasing the latest and greatest of the Android OS
slowz3r said:
I dont think its about competing with apple as much as it is showcasing the latest and greatest of the Android OS
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it's always about competing with Apple. They showcasing the latest and greatest of Android, to show consumers why they should buy Android phones over other phones (such as the iPhone).
Thank for opening a brand new thread for things being discussed time n time again since last couple of months You observations are warm heartedly welcomed
nearblack said:
it's always about competing with Apple. They showcasing the latest and greatest of Android, to show consumers why they should buy Android phones over other phones (such as the iPhone).
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if it truly was about competition Google would pull all the google apps off the Appstore
slowz3r said:
if it truly was about competition Google would pull all the google apps off the Appstore
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it's all about the bottom line. they put their apps on the appstore to spread their brand name. and, the google apps on the appstore don't have all the features that they do on android, and always get updated later.
nearblack said:
it's all about the bottom line. they put their apps on the appstore to spread their brand name. and, the google apps on the appstore don't have all the features that they do on android, and always get updated later.
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i think to truly compete with apple google needs to brand their own hardware, and what i mean by that is Not have any type of other company branding, no Samsung, no HTC none of that just Google Nexus
slowz3r said:
i think to truly compete with apple google needs to brand their own hardware, and what i mean by that is Not have any type of other company branding, no Samsung, no HTC none of that just Google Nexus
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agreed. But I don't think Google plans on doing that anytime soon
nearblack said:
agreed. But I don't think Google plans on doing that anytime soon
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ya sadly
Also there needs to be more exposure of the Android brand, people know Android as "droid" thanks to damn people at verizon
Who says Samsung didn't approach Google?
slowz3r said:
i think to truly compete with apple google needs to brand their own hardware, and what i mean by that is Not have any type of other company branding, no Samsung, no HTC none of that just Google Nexus
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Well if they just made it Google Nexus than i don't think Samsung or HTC or any other manufacturers would want their hardware in it, meaning Google would have to invest millions in factories to produce Google branded hardware. Even if they did all this to produce an actual 'pure (and not just the software)' Nexus it would still sell less than the iPhone because most people going for Android will get something on their current provider because a phone on contract is cheaper than a unlocked phone, whereas iOS seekers only have 1 current phone to go for.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
slowz3r said:
if it truly was about competition Google would pull all the google apps off the Appstore
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Lolwut?
You're forgetting where Google makes the majority of it's money.
Oh yeah, advertising. Lol. Just because Apple is a competitor to "Google Mobile" doesn't make it a competitor to "Google Search". I use Chrome on my Macbook Air. Are you saying Google should stop supporting OS X as well?
Anderdroid said:
Lolwut?
You're forgetting where Google makes the majority of it's money.
Oh yeah, advertising. Lol. Just because Apple is a competitor to "Google Mobile" doesn't make it a competitor to "Google Search". I use Chrome on my Macbook Air. Are you saying Google should stop supporting OS X as well?
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no, i didnt say anything close to that, what his argument was that Google and Apple are in competition, my response to that was if it was truly a competition why offer some of the hallmarks of Android on an iOS device
slowz3r said:
ya sadly
Also there needs to be more exposure of the Android brand, people know Android as "droid" thanks to damn people at verizon
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****, I know! Its so annoying!
Dumbass: "Well howdy do? You using a Droid phone right there"
Me: "No, its an Android phone"
Dumbass: "oh, like them robots they send into space?"
Me: "-_- really?"
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
hansmrtn said:
****, I know! Its so annoying!
Dumbass: "Well howdy do? You using a Droid phone right there"
Me: "No, its an Android phone"
Dumbass: "oh, like them robots they send into space?"
Me: "-_- really?"
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
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First commercial to that i saw with "Andy the Android" was the Evo commercial
slowz3r said:
ya sadly
Also there needs to be more exposure of the Android brand, people know Android as "droid" thanks to damn people at verizon
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I agree. As an example, I have a not-so-knowledgeable friend who has an iPhone. He was envying the Vibrant I had at the time while *****ing about Apple/AT&T. I told him he should just make the switch to Android and his response was that he "couldn't get a Droid because it is only on Verizon."
It took several minutes to explain that Droid is a brand, Android is an OS, and he could in fact switch to an Android powered device without switching carriers.
So many people still see phones like the Captivate, for example, as being an isolated feature-phone instead of being a full-featured smartphone that is part of the Android ecosystem.
It would be nearly impossible to get device manufacturers and carriers to change their advertising game but I really think Google would benefit greatly from a few solid ad campaigns.
As another example, I absolutely blew my aunts mind when I explained that having 4 completely different phones from different manufacturers in the past 2 years was really not a logistical problem because they all run the same OS and all of my apps/settings/messages/etc could easily be moved from one to the other.
Granted, neophytes and morons are always going to be just that, but there are so many people out there who just don't know any better and think that Apple not only invented the smartphone, but that it's a mobile landscape where it's Apple vs. 1000 little guys and some of them happen to be "powered by Google"
</rant> and I apologize for going so far off topic.
I agree with more mass advertising. besides the droid commercials, I havent really seen any manufacturers advertise the Android OS, just their hardware (screen size, 4g)
slowz3r said:
i think to truly compete with apple google needs to brand their own hardware, and what i mean by that is Not have any type of other company branding, no Samsung, no HTC none of that just Google Nexus
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I don't think there's too much wrong with a manufacturer's name on a product as long as it doesn't take center stage. On the front of the Nexus S, there is no carrier logo. That's the biggest and most recognizable branding you'll find on a phone nowadays. The only typed-out words we see are on the back cover, and still it only says Google and Samsung in roughly the same font. I think they did a nice job with keeping the phone "plain" in that regard. Also since Google is square in the middle of the cover, I think most peoples eyes will go to that first.
They chose Samsung for profit ! Look at the quantity of Galaxy S that Samsung sold. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
No, it's not the "flagship hardware" argument.
It's about the fact that the Google decided to stop competing with it's own supporters: Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola, etc. I can bet the hardware makers were beginning to be quite pissed off because of the Nexus bargain prices, and complained loudly. Yes, the Nexus was a great way to show the hardware makers and developers a direction for the Android hardware and - more important - for the Android software, but enough is enough, Google doesn't really need the hardware business so putting more pressure on its own allies is the last thing it needed to do. So the Nexus will remain that direction, with the difference that it will not unnecessarily compete with its partners.
Samsung already posted declining sales. The last thing the hardware makers need now is more competition.
A similar story happened with Microsoft and it's hardware partners. The Surface and Surface Pro tablets are priced quite high in order to avoid competing but they are still able to show the hardware partners a direction in which it wants things to evolve.
So there you have it. This is the real reason Google decided to price the Nexus 6 so high.
kevinlevrone said:
No, it's not the "flagship hardware" argument.
It's about the fact that the Google decided to stop competing with it's own supporters: Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola, etc. I can bet the hardware makers were beginning to be quite pissed off because of the Nexus bargain prices, and complained loudly. Yes, the Nexus was a great way to show the hardware makers and developers a direction for the Android hardware, but enough is enough, Google doesn't really need the hardware business so putting more pressure on its own allies is the last thing it needed to do.
Samsung already posted declining sales. The last thing the hardware makers need now is more competition.
A similar story happened with Microsoft and it's hardware partners. The Surface and Surface Pro tablets are priced quite high in order to avoid competing but they are still able to show the hardware partners a direction in which it wants things to evolve.
So there you have it. This is the real reason Google decided to price the Nexus 6 so high.
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Was disappointed by the price, but this makes sense, well ill have to go and get another phone, possibly, Nexus 5 or OPO
kevinlevrone said:
No, it's not the "flagship hardware" argument.
It's about the fact that the Google decided to stop competing with it's own supporters: Samsung, LG, Sony, Motorola, etc. I can bet the hardware makers were beginning to be quite pissed off because of the Nexus bargain prices, and complained loudly. Yes, the Nexus was a great way to show the hardware makers and developers a direction for the Android hardware, but enough is enough, Google doesn't really need the hardware business so putting more pressure on its own allies is the last thing it needed to do.
Samsung already posted declining sales. The last thing the hardware makers need now is more competition.
A similar story happened with Microsoft and it's hardware partners. The Surface and Surface Pro tablets are priced quite high in order to avoid competing but they are still able to show the hardware partners a direction in which it wants things to evolve.
So there you have it. This is the real reason Google decided to price the Nexus 6 so high.
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Don't buy that argument. Why would google even go through the trouble of making a Nexus device then? Nexus phones certainly weren't cutting into the sales of the Galaxy line. It's a niche market. If google wanted to play nice with hardware manufacturers they would just continue to release Google Play Edition versions of existing devices rather than create their own device.
They probably thought well Apple can sell plenty of iPhones at a hefty markup then we will have a slice of that action.
qwerty12601 said:
Don't buy that argument. Why would google even go through the trouble of making a Nexus device then?
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To give the hardware makers and to "the world" a direction, a benchmark on how an Android device should look and function, a direction in which the Android ecosystem is evolving.
kevinlevrone said:
To give the hardware makers and to "the world" a direction, a benchmark on how an Android device should look and function, a direction in which the Android ecosystem is evolving.
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But on the same token, this device is an enlarged Moto X. Where is google's influence on this device other than a larger foot print?
anees167 said:
Was disappointed by the price, but this makes sense, well ill have to go and get another phone, possibly, Nexus 5 or OPO
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I agree. So today, I chose the N5 over the OPO because of wireless charging and I want android L asap
qwerty12601 said:
But on the same token, this device is an enlarged Moto X. Where is google's influence on this device other than a larger foot print?
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The most important is in the software and how updates are delivered.
The fact that the Nexus 6 is similar to the Moto X (the designs converge) means that Google almost reached its goal of showing the hardware makers how it wants and Android device to look and function.
Remember how the Nexus One seemed like a huge step up compared to all the other Android devices ? Then how a new Nexus (don't remember which - maybe Nexus 4) introduced the software keys instead of the hardware/capacitive permanent keys ? Google steered the hardware into the direction it wanted, over time. Now we are at a point in which the hardware makers know how to properly build Android devices.
qwerty12601 said:
Don't buy that argument. Why would google even go through the trouble of making a Nexus device then? Nexus phones certainly weren't cutting into the sales of the Galaxy line. It's a niche market. If google wanted to play nice with hardware manufacturers they would just continue to release Google Play Edition versions of existing devices rather than create their own device.
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I don't buy this argument either. If anything, Google, according to most reports, is actively trying to wrestle even more control as it seeks to increase competition from other vendors, such as Samsung, which has all but lobotomized Android. With this device, even the price point suggests that a Google device can step out of the niche market and go toe to toe with the heavyweights. Google wants to show it can marry the best hardware with the best form of its newly revamped OS. And, this price point only exudes Google's confidence in this direction.
kevinlevrone said:
The most important is in the software and how updates are delivered.
The fact that the Nexus 6 is similar to the Moto X (the designs converge) means that Google almost reached its goal of showing the hardware makers how it wants and Android device to look and function.
Remember how the Nexus One seemed like a huge step up compared to all the other Android devices ? Then how a new Nexus (don't remember which - maybe Nexus 4) introduced the software keys instead of the hardware/capacitive permanent keys ? Google steered the hardware into the direction it wanted, over time. Now we are at a point in which the hardware makers know how to properly build Android devices.
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I don't doubt that hardware makers have grown to shape their devices to google's goal. But at this point, why would google want to showcase a device that theoretically has been designed in 2013 (original moto x). They're is no device innovation this time. There really hasn't been for years, and that's been accompanied by affordable devices.
qwerty12601 said:
I don't doubt that hardware makers have grown to shape their devices to google's goal. But at this point, why would google want to showcase a device that theoretically has been designed in 2013 (original moto x). They're is no device innovation this time. There really hasn't been for years, and that's been accompanied by affordable devices.
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Did you see any innovation in the new iPhones, other than the larger screens, faster processors and better OS ? Same with Nexus - larger screen, faster processor and better OS. The perceived lack of real hardware innovation it's not Google's fault, it's just that this is the state of technology today.
kevinlevrone said:
Did you see any innovation in the new iPhones, other than the larger screens, faster processors and better OS ? Same with Nexus - larger screen, faster processor and better OS. The perceived lack of real hardware innovation it's not Google's fault, it's just that this is the state of technology today.
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The iphone hasn't innovated anything in years. Their sell is an easy device to use with a super loyal following, and extremely consistent pricing. The price of a new Iphone hasn't changed in many years.
If that's the direction the nexus line wants to go, then good luck! But Nexus doesn't have that large loyal following, and with prices going up and down it's going to make people look at other options.
qwerty12601 said:
If that's the direction the nexus line wants to go, then good luck! But Nexus doesn't have that large loyal following, and with prices going up and down it's going to make people look at other options.
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I think that Google doesn't want (anymore) that many people to buy its Nexus devices - especially phablets which are Samsung's most profitable devices and would really hurt it if Nexus was sold at bargain prices - what Google wants is that those Nexus devices to exist as a reference.
It may be that Samsung had a lot of saying in how Google positioned the Nexus 6. Google needs Samsung, badly. And Samsung released many of its wearables with the Tizen operating system instead of Android Wear. It may be that Google did Samsung a favor in order to ensure that it doesn't lose the wearables war in the future and get Samsung in the Android Wear boat.
Its expensive now not because they were not competing. the nexus line didn't make a dent in anybody's pocket except google's
Fact remains is nexus 5 sales numbers were never released, most likely because they were so poor compared to flagship devices.
Google wanted a way to compete with samsung/apple and now they have found it: contract with more carriers, set it at a price point where other people not familiar with the nexus line would consider it a flagship device, etc.
i can understand, from a business standpoint the nexus 5 didn't make sense and it was time to compete with the big players.
Though i'm sad and will not be buying one. The point of a nexus for me was both the price and no contract needed.. now they got rid of that and at this point i'd rather get something tried and tested like a galaxy note especially if im going to be forced into a contract to get an affordable price for it.
kevinlevrone said:
I think that Google doesn't want (anymore) that many people to buy its Nexus devices - especially phablets which are Samsung's most profitable devices and would really hurt it if Nexus was sold at bargain prices - what Google wants is that those Nexus devices to exist as a reference.
It may be that Samsung had a lot of saying in how Google positioned the Nexus 6. Google needs Samsung, badly. And Samsung released many of its wearables with the Tizen operating system instead of Android Wear. It may be that Google did Samsung a favor in order to ensure that it doesn't lose the wearables war in the future and get Samsung in the Android Wear boat.
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Which is why I feel if that's the direction they really wanted to go, just doing GPE on existing devices where manufacturers are aware and optimize their devices with googles input would make more sense. That way the manufacturer gets to sell the device at full cost, featuring stock android.
floepie said:
I don't buy this argument either. If anything, Google, according to most reports, is actively trying to wrestle even more control as it seeks to increase competition from other vendors, such as Samsung, which has all but lobotomized Android. With this device, even the price point suggests that a Google device can step out of the niche market and go toe to toe with the heavyweights. Google wants to show it can marry the best hardware with the best form of its newly revamped OS. And, this price point only exudes Google's confidence in this direction.
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I believe you nailed it. Its as good as anything top notch out there, and cheaper. Had it been a $450 phone, people would have complained it could have been more.
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So to prevent competition they sell it for a price not many are willing to pay. And to top it off, make it gigantic for even more clout.
theoneofgod said:
So to prevent competition they sell it for a price not many are willing to pay. And to top it off, make it gigantic for even more clout.
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No, to *help* competition among its partners. Google is not in the hardware business, they don't care if it sells or not. It only cares for the Nexus line to exist and show the world how Android should be.
An alternative take.
Motorola are hurting for cash. Google bought them, did nothing with them and then sold them to Lenovo, but not before taking all the good IP with them. Lenovo added a stipulation that they make the next Nexus device and get to price it, making more profit. Motorola are the only ones to name the price so far, not Google.
That's my take, it's pure stipulation, but that's my opinion.
Kryten2k35 said:
An alternative take.
Motorola are hurting for cash. Google bought them, did nothing with them and then sold them to Lenovo, but not before taking all the good IP with them. Lenovo added a stipulation that they make the next Nexus device and get to price it, making more profit. Motorola are the only ones to name the price so far, not Google.
That's my take, it's pure stipulation, but that's my opinion.
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Interesting and I find it possible. Motorola doesn't have a non-Nexus phablet yet, so the Nexus could be their own entry into the phablet market. The fact that it will be sold through carriers with subsidy, etc. just like a regular phone also adds to this possibility.
However, would Google abandon their Nexus strategy with this one-time deal/screw-up ? Not sure. And I'm also not sure that the Nexus line sold so well as to be a desired deal by Motorola. The Nexus line was positioned in a certain way, you can't easily switch this positioning and expect huge success (Google doesn't care about sales but Motorola does).
However I believe Google (or Motorola, or both) will learn its lesson from this. People expect lower prices from Nexus devices. If they launched a similar phablet but non-Nexus branded, no one would have complained about the price. But calling it a Nexus will surely make many people hate Google for it.
wow, who wants to speculate:
source:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-40241
Interesting to say the least haha
Sent from my A0001 using XDA Free mobile app
All I can say whatever M$ Touches goes to sheeeeet....we all know that...
Is not clear to me: the opening line talks about a "hot startup" and the author refers to Cyanogen; isn't Cyanogen Inc. Actually?
probiewankenobi said:
Is not clear to me: the opening line talks about a "hot startup" and the author refers to Cyanogen; isn't Cyanogen Inc. Actually?
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Yeah they are talking about the company Cyanogen, Inc.
probiewankenobi said:
Is not clear to me: the opening line talks about a "hot startup" and the author refers to Cyanogen; isn't Cyanogen Inc. Actually?
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potato potaaaato how many cyanogenmod do you want?
Sent from my A0001 using XDA Free mobile app
EDIT.
very interesting.... thanks!
Cyanogen thinks they can take on Mother Google and open their own App store eco-system.
Even tho CM is big, I doubt they would be successful in this venture, I mean Samsung tried it their Tizen and it isnt doing so hot...
While I agree Google has very strict rules on their eco-system but trying to attempt a new OS while in a fierce battle with iOS and Android, im not sure how well it will do...
gd6noob said:
Cyanogen thinks they can take on Mother Google and open their own App store eco-system.
Even tho CM is big, I doubt they would be successful in this venture, I mean Samsung tried it their Tizen and it isnt doing so hot...
While I agree Google has very strict rules on their eco-system but trying to attempt a new OS while in a fierce battle with iOS and Android, im not sure how well it will do...
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How about CyanogenMod partnered with Microsoft? I guarantee that CyanogenMod announcing their hostilities toward Android/Google a few days before Microsoft announcing investment in them is not a random sequence of events.
Also funny that you say Tizen isn't doing so well. Didn't Samsung just start selling their first Tizen units? I know they were slow getting it out the door, but some reports say they sold 50,000 units in just ten days. Even so, comparing Tizen to iOS, Android or Windows phone is an apples to oranges comparison in many significant respects. Tizen competes in only one segment of Android's broad portfolio, the very low end. Apple isn't there at all and Microsoft barely is.
$50,000 units in ten days isnt a lot for a major player in the smartphone industry... Samsung isnt some unknown chinese manufacture... If samsung fails to meet demands and cuts Tizen, there will be a lot of angry people thus forcing Sansung to keep dumping money... this is a tough question for anyone to answer for its future... Same can be said with Cyanogen, if (and its a big IF) it doesnt pan out for their own version of android can come crawling back using Googles eco-system, would seriously hurt cyanogen...
Microsoft... sure, probably had a big part in convincing Cyanogen to branch off but you know what... whatever MS dips there fingers into, doesnt pan out at all.. lol... Their Windows Phone 7, bombed... Windows Phone 8, little better... Nokia venture, Bombed... Maybe thats why MS wanted to part with CM... who knows....
gd6noob said:
$50,000 units in ten days isnt a lot for a major player in the smartphone industry...
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Compared to what?
Honestly, I think CM have gotten too big for their boots, they're having major delusions of grandeur. Sure, they're the biggest player in the modifying/development community. But in the real world where they're competing against the multi-billion dollar companies, they're just very small fish in a very big pond.
It's understandable that they want to make money off their work, who wouldn't? But their idea of having their own app store is just not going to work. The demand simply isn't there, nobody except the modding community actually knows who CM are. They really need to come back down to earth and concentrate on ensuring their builds are stable instead of pumping themselves up into something they simply aren't.
Transmitted via Bacon
timmaaa said:
Honestly, I think CM have gotten too big for their boots, they're having major delusions of grandeur. Sure, they're the biggest player in the modifying/development community. But in the real world where they're competing against the multi-billion dollar companies, they're just very small fish in a very big pond.
It's understandable that they want to make money off their work, who wouldn't? But their idea of having their own app store is just not going to work. The demand simply isn't there, nobody except the modding community actually knows who CM are. They really need to come back down to earth and concentrate on ensuring their builds are stable instead of pumping themselves up into something they simply aren't.
Transmitted via Bacon
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To be honest this is exactly what everyone says when there is a settled order, and usually when the object of reference has no momemtum or buyin what happens. But not what happens when the reference meets the criteria that Cyanogenmod meets and exceeds.
Just speculating though
they are showing multibillion dollars is not what it takes by free (remember when microsoft and googe started, they were "free" )
Maybe this could be a 2 way street. Microsoft could help CM to take Google down a notch or two and in return CM could help develop a compatibility layer in windows phone to use android apps.
Could just be my pipe dreams.
aj44mc said:
Maybe this could be a 2 way street. Microsoft could help CM to take Google down a notch or two and in return CM could help develop a compatibility layer in windows phone to use android apps.
Could just be my pipe dreams.
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Yeah just dreams lol
timmaaa said:
Honestly, I think CM have gotten too big for their boots, they're having major delusions of grandeur. Sure, they're the biggest player in the modifying/development community. But in the real world where they're competing against the multi-billion dollar companies, they're just very small fish in a very big pond.
It's understandable that they want to make money off their work, who wouldn't? But their idea of having their own app store is just not going to work. The demand simply isn't there, nobody except the modding community actually knows who CM are. They really need to come back down to earth and concentrate on ensuring their builds are stable instead of pumping themselves up into something they simply aren't.
Transmitted via Bacon
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The issue is that cm is used by a big part of android. People prefer it over stock. Not only they fix bugs as they take it to the next level. Would like to see the plans they have.
jgcaap said:
The issue is that cm is used by a big part of android. People prefer it over stock. Not only they fix bugs as they take it to the next level. Would like to see the plans they have.
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It isn't used by a lot of people though, it's used by a fair proportion of people who modify their phones, but they (modders) only make up a very small percentage of smartphone consumers. The vast majority of average consumers have absolutely no idea who CM are, and probably never will.
CM fix some bugs, but CM also create some bugs. I'm interested to see what plans they have too, but they're seriously overstating their exposure and popularity, that's a big mistake, I predict that their plan to have their own app market is going to fail spectacularly.
Transmitted via Bacon
No way I see CM's app store idea working out. If they start development on windows OS apps for Microsoft's app store that's a different story though. Microsoft mobile phones app store is atrocious and if somehow CM is able to bridge windows OS with Google apps, that would be something (like how blackberry OS has the android ability where android apps can be side loaded and run)
I can see a way it works out, if its better, safer, cheaper for developers to use. There are many that find Googles monopoly position appaling as they take a chunk out of the margins.
anyway fun this discussion leaned more towards an app store then the next gen OS to compete with android and apple os
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bachera said:
wow, who wants to speculate:
source:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-40241
Interesting to say the least haha
Sent from my A0001 using XDA Free mobile app
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I hope this is just cheap marketing for microsoft. Wasnt android meant to be open? Microsoft and open software does not compute. Android and google can hardly be considered as open either as they require all manufacturers to play their game and I thought that was what cyanogenmod was about once. Maybe no longer.