Database Users

Nexus, W7 Phones, and Irony

Does anyone find it ironic that nearly all HTC phones that are launching as part of the W7 campaign are essentially N1's loaded with w7.
All first gen snapdragons, they all share the N1 styling/materials.
Hopefully we can dual boot w7 due to the similarities. =D

I don't think they are but, I need to see a side by side. I thought most of the new w7 phones had better specs then the n1. But, of we have the best community of any phone out. That is why Google needs to make another dev phone it don't need to be called nexus two......

Check out engadget's front page, mozart,shobert,surround, trophy

Not terribly impressed with the W7 OS. From a UI standpoint, I could see the home screen getting very cluttered and I'm not sure if they have any sort of folder management system either to alleviate that. The multitouch zoom and kinetic scrolling in IE looked fluid but not having text reflow hurts. The Bing app was nice, as was the XBOX Live integration which is cool if you're into that but everything else was very meh. Didn't look awful like previous versions of WinMo but nothing that blew me away either. Still well behind Android and iOS even.

WP7 seems very solid in terms of how it is being handled. I love this quote:
http://twitter.com/edbott/statuses/27039322558
All Windows 7 phones will get updates at same time. Carriers don't get to block. (IOW, this ain't Android)
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I wish Google had the balls to do that.

Paul22000 said:
I wish Google had the balls to do that.
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Kind of reminds me of my favorite writer online: MG Seigler of TechCrunch
He really is the voice of the people and calls out Google for folding to the carrier demands like a guy with no confidence that gets walked all over by the hot girl (the carriers) that dont care about anyone else but herself
Here is a great article by MG Seigler on Andy Rubin making excuses for Google folding to whatever the carriers demand so that they can stay in bed with the enemy carriers: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/08/android-carriers/
Google really needs to grow a pair and take control of Android. A carrier holding out an OS update just so they can force up to purchase a new phone might be the norm but that doesn't mean its right or should be tolerated by Google

Google, by definition, can't control android, do you poeple not understand that?

JCopernicus said:
Google, by definition, can't control android, do you poeple not understand that?
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Damn straight.

JCopernicus said:
Google, by definition, can't control android, do you poeple not understand that?
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That's weird I wonder why I even got heated in my post above
I mean hell... thats the whole reason why I got the Nexus One! to not have to deal with carrier games anymore

You meant to say that they cant control android but wield a mighty big stick with gapps didnt you? I tried cm without gapps, pretty much cuts the nuts right off the little android leaving it ineffectual.
in-ef-fec-tu-al adjective 1 Weak. 2 Without satisfactory or decisive effect. 3 Powerless, impotent. 4 Insufficent to produce the desired result.

MS does something right for once in the smartphone arena. Can't we just give credit when it's due?
Text reflow? As far as I know even in CM I have to double tap the browser page to get it to reflow.
The UI looks sweet as hell and not having to worry about carrier tied updates?
Priceless.

I really didn't like the W7 UI, no place for wallpapers and that it's a very negative thing for me

It had a very nice style IMO. I doubt I'll move from my N1, but it's definitely gonna be an interesting game here on out.

ap3604 said:
Kind of reminds me of my favorite writer online: MG Seigler of TechCrunch
He really is the voice of the people and calls out Google for folding to the carrier demands like a guy with no confidence that gets walked all over by the hot girl (the carriers) that dont care about anyone else but herself
Here is a great article by MG Seigler on Andy Rubin making excuses for Google folding to whatever the carriers demand so that they can stay in bed with the enemy carriers: http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/08/android-carriers/
Google really needs to grow a pair and take control of Android. A carrier holding out an OS update just so they can force up to purchase a new phone might be the norm but that doesn't mean its right or should be tolerated by Google
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So do you think you can just build AOSP and dump the result on any phone? No, it has to be tailored per-phone.. What changes there are between phones I wouldn't know, not a rom cook, but I suspect the complexity/time needed ranges from trivial to impossible (HW limitations).
So therefore, Google is not going to build, test, and deploy a build for every Android phone ever made. The carriers have NO INCENTIVE to support older phones.. They have gotten better about this, but they still have no reason to do it honestly, it's not like other industries where hardware sales lose money (printers, game systems, many others) and therefore they need to stretch the users experience with the hardware to the max. Phone sales net the carriers extended contracts and money.

JCopernicus said:
Google, by definition, can't control android, do you poeple not understand that?
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Actually they can, very easily:
Carrier/Manufacturer: Hey Google, we're going to release a phone with Android 1.5, replace your search with Bing, add some crap-ware, and remove a bunch of useful Android features!
Google: Oh really? Too bad your Android phone won't have Gmail, Google Maps, Google Talk, YouTube, Google Syncing, OR the Android Market!
Carrier/Manufacturer: Hmm...​

Paul22000 said:
Actually they can, very easily:
Carrier/Manufacturer: Hey Google, we're going to release a phone with Android 1.5, replace your search with Bing, add some crap-ware, and remove a bunch of useful Android features!
Google: Oh really? Too bad your Android phone won't have Gmail, Google Maps, Google Talk, YouTube, Google Syncing, OR the Android Market!
Carrier/Manufacturer: Hmm...​
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Verizon doesn't seem to care. This does work though it's how android took off. However, not having gapps is more detremental to Google than carriers. At this point in the game android can survive without native Google applications.

khaytsus said:
So do you think you can just build AOSP and dump the result on any phone? No, it has to be tailored per-phone.. What changes there are between phones I wouldn't know, not a rom cook, but I suspect the complexity/time needed ranges from trivial to impossible (HW limitations).
So therefore, Google is not going to build, test, and deploy a build for every Android phone ever made. The carriers have NO INCENTIVE to support older phones.. They have gotten better about this, but they still have no reason to do it honestly, it's not like other industries where hardware sales lose money (printers, game systems, many others) and therefore they need to stretch the users experience with the hardware to the max. Phone sales net the carriers extended contracts and money.
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So basically you're justifying carriers holding off hardware updates so that people can dump their 6 month old phone for a new one just to get from 2.1 to 2.2?
That's BS and you know it.
Android gets a new version every other month, and if they do this and leave older users in the dark with carriers blocking updates, Android is NEVER going to be real competition to iOS.
Hardware is just another BS excuse. 2.2 runs fine on even the HTC Dream.

mynameisjon said:
Android gets a new version every other month, and if they do this and leave older users in the dark with carriers blocking updates, Android is NEVER going to be real competition to iOS.
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Android sold more units in Q2 2010 than iOS, so surely its already real competition?

Is just me or is one of the biggest faults with android the various phone form factors that make it impossible to standardize any accessories? Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be locked into a single phone running android but it seems the phone manufacturers could maybe design their phones so they have common ports for accessories. I guess we are lucky we at least got a desktop and car dock. Even cars are coming with iphone, ipad docks, you'll never see an android dock.

JCopernicus said:
Google, by definition, can't control android, do you poeple not understand that?
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Click to collapse
Google, from a business perspective, doesn't need to control android.
its not its number one priority. yes it could try to twist the carrier's arms, and yes most would fold, but even if only 1 of the big 4 refuses to fold and stops carrying android devices google losses.
google doesnt make money off of android. it makes money off of ads. it just wants you to watch the ads through its portals. you might say they lose that when carriers choose bing over google, but really most of the ads (in apps, around the web) are controlled by google because google owns the online ad market. in fact, they will make money off of the spread of windows 7 phones as well. they entered the mobile business just to make sure neither apple nor microsoft could cut them out of the mobile internet user base and therefore limit the number of users viewing their ads.
btw we are in the nexus one section of xda, which by definition means you cant complain about waiting for updates and carrier and manufacturer crippling. (ha! see what i did there?)

Is it just me...

Or does it seem like Honeycomb was rushed out. I get a lot of force closes on my browser and other apps that were installed when I get my Xoom. Does anyone else get that?

Nope, it's just you, nobody has never made a thread like this ever in this forum.
Next time put something real in the title.

Google is going to f***ing dissenchant me with all their little f***ing two sided antics. OK I get it, blah blah open f***ing source etc. But you can't have it both ways. You want to make a liberal system that can be taken advantage of freely by developers and promote creativity and freedom, great. But you do half the work and allow the cyanogenmod team to smooth out the rest of the quarks and make your OS closer to an expected consumer user experience, voiding peoples warranty in the process. Even at this point, OK. BUT YOU CAN'T F***ING HAVE THE HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS AND CARRIERS PARADING AROUND LIKE ITS OK TO MILK A HALF BAKED OS BY SUCKING PEOPLE DRY WITH INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES, ESPECIALLY WHEN NOT EVEN ONE CENT OF ANY OF THE SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT COMES OUT OF THEIR POCKET.
Google needs to put the f***ing squeeze on these a*****es or realize that they are full of s***.

IndivisibleP said:
Language in quote cleaned.
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Lolololol its a breath of fresh air seeing someone comment with this much emotion
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

IndivisibleP said:
Google is going to f***ing dissenchant me with all their little f***ing two sided antics. OK I get it, blah blah open f***ing source etc. But you can't have it both ways. You want to make a liberal system that can be taken advantage of freely by developers and promote creativity and freedom, great. But you do half the work and allow the cyanogenmod team to smooth out the rest of the quarks and make your OS closer to an expected consumer user experience, voiding peoples warranty in the process. Even at this point, OK. BUT YOU CAN'T F***ING HAVE THE HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS AND CARRIERS PARADING AROUND LIKE ITS OK TO MILK A HALF BAKED OS BY SUCKING PEOPLE DRY WITH INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES, ESPECIALLY WHEN NOT EVEN ONE CENT OF ANY OF THE SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT COMES OUT OF THEIR POCKET.
Google needs to put the f***ing squeeze on these a*****es or realize that they are full of s***.
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Click to collapse
and THE OP
Nobody forced you to buy anything. Is honeycomb perfect? no we already know this. 2.2 or 2.3 is not perfect so not sure what you expected. We got earthquakes, tsunamis, and civil wars going on and you are worried about some force closes. You dont like it dont buy it. You should feel lucky you even have the choice to buy a Xoom. Quit your *****in.

IndivisibleP said:
INSANE UNJUSTIFIABLE PRICES
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Sounds like you can't really afford the Xoom. Maybe you should just take it back and get a refund. Yes, I think that's the best course for everyone involved.

DroidzFX said:
and THE OP
Nobody forced you to buy anything. Is honeycomb perfect? no we already know this. 2.2 or 2.3 is not perfect so not sure what you expected. We got earthquakes, tsunamis, and civil wars going on and you are worried about some force closes. You dont like it dont buy it. You should feel lucky you even have the choice to buy a Xoom. Quit your *****in.
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I wasn't "*****in" as you like to put it I was merely asking a question as to whether this was a common thing or if mine was just having problems and maybe I should reload it or something to fix it. If you can't say anything constructive maybe you should avoid using that 1st amendment right of yours.

matdev said:
I wasn't "*****in" as you like to put it I was merely asking a question as to whether this was a common thing or if mine was just having problems and maybe I should reload it or something to fix it. If you can't say anything constructive maybe you should avoid using that 1st amendment right of yours.
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Maybe you should do some research because this question has been asked several times. If the same question or statement is mentioned over and over then it becomes classified as *****in. Unfortunately you fell into this category.

I think the price is fair...and Moto does have software dev time in it - Kernel time at a minimum. I'm fully aware Google was involved in the design process of the device, but I doubt other than a ton of OEM support to Moto that they actually have a ton of resources invested in the device it self.
I guess no one has looked in to purchasing a 32Gb SSD - those alone are $100.
10" screen ~$100 for just a screen without any touch digitizer
So 200 bucks in cost in 2 pieces of hardware.
One of the problems with the Android community as a whole is everyone whining about price. The price of hardware, the price of apps. The Apple drones could care less about price, they'll pay what they are asked to pay regardless of any other thought than "It's white, it has fruit on it" . I however am a fairly informed consumer and am WILLING to pay for latest and greatest as long as it serves my needs.
However, the lack of HC Source has made me reconsider the purchase....

Kcarpenter said:
I think the price is fair...and Moto does have software dev time in it - Kernel time at a minimum. I'm fully aware Google was involved in the design process of the device, but I doubt other than a ton of OEM support to Moto that they actually have a ton of resources invested in the device it self.
I guess no one has looked in to purchasing a 32Gb SSD - those alone are $100.
10" screen ~$100 for just a screen without any touch digitizer
So 200 bucks in cost in 2 pieces of hardware.
One of the problems with the Android community as a whole is everyone whining about price. The price of hardware, the price of apps. The Apple drones could care less about price, they'll pay what they are asked to pay regardless of any other thought than "It's white, it has fruit on it" . I however am a fairly informed consumer and am WILLING to pay for latest and greatest as long as it serves my needs.
However, the lack of HC Source has made me reconsider the purchase....
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You have to think though, that by not releasing the source.. they are doing their best to avoid some of the issues spoken about previously. Too often manufacturers would like to prey on the uneducated or the early adopters by throwing a half developed piece of hardware out the door, slapping the google android sticker on it.. and then while they profit, they take the good name of Google/Android and drag it through the mud.
Look at the reaction to the original Samsung Galaxy Tab. It was thrown out, with an OS that was not made for a tablet, on hardware not optimized for the design... only to capitalize on the fact that they would be the first out the gate (or at least one of the first). Apple did the same thing, and took their phone OS and blew it up to a larger format. The only reason they succeeded was that they had their system locked down and could ensure that they had a good hardware/software mix. The throngs of iFags everywhere gobble it up because they knew it would be solid enough to satisfy them for a year till the next one comes out and improves on it.
Google is finally learning from Apple in that respect.
By not releasing the sc for HC, they are making sure that they can correct the early issues found with HC in the Xoom, as well as ensure the hardware its installed on meets specific requirements as to not damage their name or their products name. Its not that it wont let it out eventually, but they want to make it as solid as possible before they do. I respect them for that, even if it makes the modding community's job a bit harder in the interim.

Lastly... you can blame the marketing techniques for shady products. Simple people are too excited by shiny products with big words in their advertising, that they get burned by not researching... and those that get burned, cry the most. Those that do their due diligence and research, only blame themselves when they get burned because they overlooked a mistake or failed to prioritize features.

matdev said:
Or does it seem like Honeycomb was rushed out. I get a lot of force closes on my browser and other apps that were installed when I get my Xoom. Does anyone else get that?
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Can you give us some more details? Like, did you root your xoom or are you experiencing all of these force closes on a clean xoom that you just got 2 days ago? Did you throw an image on there, sideload a bunch of apps, etc....
Off Topic...
Many people do not understand when they try to compare the Xoom to a polished product like the iPad that the iPad OS has been around for a while before the iPad even came to market (iTouch, iPhone) and developers had already enough time to work with iOS so when the iPad was released there was not that much difference besides the new screen real estate that they had to adjust their apps for. When the iPad first came out there were some bugs, apps had that BS 2x until they were optimized for the iPad, etc...The Xoom is a brand new product that is sporting new hardware and a brand new OS that developers have not had the opportunity to work on until just recently so if "you" are not an early adopter then please buy an iPad. And if you are going to complain about the price of the Xoom compared to an iPad 2 then please explain how many 16GB WiFi only models are selling for the same price right now as a Xoom.

The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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What? You realize android is the most used smartphone platform worldwide right (ignoring sybian)? If that isn't market penetration I don't know what is.
The API differences from 1.6-2.3 are so minor that application compatibility is really a non issue between operating systems. The only issue is hardware differences really.
Ask the average Joe user what version of android or IOS they are using and they'll ask you "what?". Only the power users ***** and moan about these relatively minor OS updates because they always want the latest thing.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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Are you rooting for Android to fail? You know they do have Windows based phones if you don't like android ones. No one is forcing you to buy anything android. This is not a hate forum so unless you actually own a xoom and have a general question/statement regarding the xoom/honeycomb then why not just go find a "I hate android/linux/capitalism" forum.

neonflx said:
The entire android os and their very diverse array of devices is the reason it will fail. Kind of the same reason linux have not been able to penetrate the masses. I been a linux user since 92 and even I get overwhelmed sometimes with the amounts of distros out there. Got it that is what open source is about however. that same premises is what hinders its progress. Andoid is too fragmented with companies rushing out devices to the market without been ready, unfortunately the so call "early adopters" do everyone else a deservice by rushing to buy such devices, to compund this, companies are quick to abandon support for devices after a couple of months leaving us at the mercy of freelance developers (which by the way are great)
Yes the xoom and hc were rushed out to the market on an effort to get a headstart on other devices, by now it has been proven that it did now work as expected for them
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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Really? You must have been on a deserted island for the last couple years. My Xoom running Honeycomb works just fine. Someone needs to start a thread titled ***** here so you guys can get together share what type of tampons you prefer.

Google - No Honeycomb AOSP for you!

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Google says it will delay the distribution of its newest Android source code, dubbed Honeycomb, at least for the foreseeable future. The search giant says the software, which is tailored specifically for tablet computers that compete against Apple's iPad, is not yet ready to be altered by outside programmers and customized for other devices, such as phones.

almostinsane said:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2011/tc20110324_269784.htm
Google says it will delay the distribution of its newest Android source code, dubbed Honeycomb, at least for the foreseeable future. The search giant says the software, which is tailored specifically for tablet computers that compete against Apple's iPad, is not yet ready to be altered by outside programmers and customized for other devices, such as phones.
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More beta BS. I'll sell you a car but we only completed the frame.

Yup - Its why I just sent my Xoom back to Moto.

Perhaps it's time to change your ID to "completelyInsane".
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

_RTFM_ said:
Perhaps it's time to change your ID to "completelyInsane".
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
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LMAO!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

i dont understand what will make it "ready" if they are planning on eventually releasing it what will keep it from being ported to phones then. If its a matter of incompleteness then what's changed since Cupcake which everyone agrees was more .8 than 1.0. Releasing it to dev's will allow for bugfixes and tweaks to get merged upstream.

It will leak eventually. It always does...
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

Yea I dont understand google some times. I understand the the OS isnt ready, but if it really is that bad and that unstable then why even put it on a tablet. And really what harm does it do the put out the code, so people will port it to other devices, you can keep doing what you will but make lots of devs happy.

They say they're worried about a poor user experience. Who do they think these users are? "I he4rd on the int3webz I can haz h0neycombz on my G1?" I mean we already know that the percentage of people running custom Roms, while large for what it is, is not the bulk of people using Android. And we know that what we're doing may not be the smoothest experience. The SDK has already been ported to pretty much everything, and they're worried about the actual 3.0 being a poor experience? Come on Google, what's this really about?

This wasn't the best source to quote from. Google said they don't want developers trying to port it to phones yet since they can't guarantee a good user experience on phones. They're afraid XDA is going to port it, people try to run it on their phones and then say how crappy it runs on a phone even though that's not what it was designed for. You know it would happen, and word would spread that it sucks on phones and yada yada it doesn't get a fair chance.
Sent via EVO

As much of a ROM guy as I am, I admit this makes sense from a business stand point. Google makes $ from licensing and distribution (with regards to Android). The hacker communities do not make up said market for the most part.
The worst thing companies combat these days is negative publicity.
I owned an iPhone, two iterations, the 3G and the original. Why did my mother never purchase one, nor my sister? Simply because of how locked down they are due to MY advice. Were they ever going to buy said device due to their hackability? Hell no. But because I said it was sh**** that Apple locks their stuff down so much, they declined to buy said hardware.
Releasing the software for Google could have a lot of negative effects on a BRAND NEW operating system for a BRAND NEW market for Google. If people are throwing this on phones, you search it out on the internet, and everything is Honeycomb this sucks, and honeycomb that sucks, due to people using it on phones, most people who try to do basic research, like my mother, or sister,
will only see "THIS SUCKS".
Just my 2c, but I can see their stand point. Until they can find a way to keep it off the phones, I see this as an issue for google.
~m

familiarstranger said:
They say they're worried about a poor user experience. Who do they think these users are? "I he4rd on the int3webz I can haz h0neycombz on my G1?" I mean we already know that the percentage of people running custom Roms, while large for what it is, is not the bulk of people using Android. And we know that what we're doing may not be the smoothest experience. The SDK has already been ported to pretty much everything, and they're worried about the actual 3.0 being a poor experience? Come on Google, what's this really about?
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Uhmm, are we reading the same forum? Where people knowingly purchased a device that didn't have flash or lte or an ad card working at launch but are still *****ing and whining and returning their xoom regardless? What I mean is, those same people will install Honeycomb and complain that google released a lousy product.
Sent via EVO

thegeektern said:
I understand the the OS isnt ready, but if it really is that bad and that unstable then why even put it on a tablet. And really what harm does it do the put out the code, so people will port it to other devices, you can keep doing what you will but make lots of devs happy.
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Click to collapse
My understanding of that article is that Google doesn't feel its ready for phones. It's not that its not ready for tablets. They understand that they won't be able to stop people from using HC on phones, but trying to stave off the inevitable...
this HC thing looks like crap.... oh.. on my phone. In the end.. we are talking about a company here.. a company that needs to keep it's image.. and products.. (or software as you may call it).. as good as possible.
I don't think it's the best move Google could have made, but I think Google should do things in it's best interest to keep itself as a company in good standing. Long and short of it.. if things go south for google.. we'll all be unhappy. Just getting things out for the sake of allowing devs to play doesn't mean its the most sound decision for the company making it.
Yes, I know.. it's 'open source', but it is still a work-product. I think it's also entirely likely this is just a marketing ploy to say 'we told you so'.. and then it will get leaked and everything will go back to normal. But I still think people often forget that this is still a company that has to keep itself together to survive.
EDIT: So many things get written in the same time when you respond to a post! It seems as though I am joining the choir of.. this isn't so bad.

Sirchuk said:
This wasn't the best source to quote from. Google said they don't want developers trying to port it to phones yet since they can't guarantee a good user experience on phones. They're afraid XDA is going to port it, people try to run it on their phones and then say how crappy it runs on a phone even though that's not what it was designed for. You know it would happen, and word would spread that it sucks on phones and yada yada it doesn't get a fair chance.
Sent via EVO
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Well that hasn't stopped devs on xda porting it already - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=978939

Darn you almostinsane, I was just about to post this but you beat me to it!
Its really unfortunate that Google is doing this, whatever happened to a completely open source OS? In my honest opinion I think they should release it to the public and let the various devs have at it and see what can be improved and take those improvements into consideration for the next release of Android. If the OS was only meant for tablets who is to say that x developer can port it to a handheld flawlessly? It would be a HUGE leap ahead for us and for big ol' G.
Either way, it'll happen with or without Google releasing the source as our one dev spacemoose1 has shown us with making a near perfect port to the Samsung tab of honeycomb.
Stinks money is such an issue, Google doesn't really need anymore haha.
Done with my rant now
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

Another business reason for this decision: Google may not have programmed Honeycomb well.
An obvious(?) repercussion for grimy source code going public is more bashing of Honeycomb's alleged "beta-ness". The more app developers that use the ...poisonous open-source code, the more ...poisoned apps there will be.
Or, they want to curb full-blown Honeycomb from appearing on devices other than the Xoom for just a little longer.

you're right. I just hate that its true. Your sig shows you remember the G1 days when we were all just so happy about what our phone COULD do. It's gotten a lot whinnier around here since then.
Sirchuk said:
Uhmm, are we reading the same forum? Where people knowingly purchased a device that didn't have flash or lte or an ad card working at launch but are still *****ing and whining and returning their xoom regardless? What I mean is, those same people will install Honeycomb and complain that google released a lousy product.
Sent via EVO
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As a ROM enthusiast; yea this sucks. Business it's understandable; but as the former it doesn't make me happy.
My NC sorely needs a aosp honeycomb, HC's tablet interface is superior to even CM7 on it.
Honestly though it's a lot of speculation here on why, but it really just sounds like an excuse (Bad one) to quiet the devs while really being a straight business decision.

How is not releasing honeycomb aosp right away not being open? Would you like all your roms without SD card support right now? Honeycomb is most likely stable enough for normal use for the average consumer and Google had to make footprint in the tablet industry before ipad2 was announced. Things were obviously rushed so i rather wait for them get everything situated. I think this unfortunate news but I'm not gonna cry foul when its something that's probably for the better. Google has proven with each iteration of android they have released source so just be patient
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

almostinsane said:
Yup - Its why I just sent my Xoom back to Moto.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't understand the logic here. What alternative are you seeking? Take it back for the Galaxy 10.1? It runs the same OS. Take it back for an iPad? It runs a closed OS.
The AOSP release is delayed ... maybe. Why would you return your Xoom because of this?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App

Would you pay for Android OS updates?

We all know the reason updates are slow to roll out is because of money. Why update older phones when you can sell new ones with the latest OS? So would you pay for updates to get them sooner? If so how much would you be willing to shell out?
Trigger 3.3

I'll only pay it if it's pure Google and no more than 20$. Lol
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

No reason to pay for it. Androids kernel is based off Linux. Open source!
Google should force the hardware manufacturers to give them the drivers. Ya, I would say at this point in the game, with the dominance of Android, why not start playing hard ball with manufacturers and carriers? You don't even need the phone manufacturers support, since most of the components (chips, memory, screen, etc) are from various manufacturers, and not really the phone manufacturer. Just get the drivers from component makers directly.
Anyway, if one really had to pay. I think minor updates should be free, and major OS overhauls should have a minor fee, if at all. Personally, I would pay a small fee for major OS upgrades versus free for small updates.

Id be willing to pay a small amount over waiting months.
Trigger 3.3

I think there should be one ultimate phone. You know in the android which gets the fastest updates, oh wait isn't that a nexus? :O
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

You start paying for this sort of thing and then they send out the dogs. Bad idea. I can't think of any companies that have done this but I'm sure there are major ones.
And. If the main os was optimized for users by the dev team and people that haven't bought the update them can be in trouble for stealing. Yeah they might try it but the push against would be stronger. And pirating phone stuff would be HUGE. Almost as big as movie or game s are.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

helllllllll no.

Only if its straitup aosp. And if we can get the God d*mn update the day Google released it. You know like 2.3 was realeased in December and some company's *cough*HTC*cough* didn't release it till today. And without new sense... smh -_-
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

GreggoryD502 said:
We all know the reason updates are slow to roll out is because of money. Why update older phones when you can sell new ones with the latest OS? So would you pay for updates to get them sooner? If so how much would you be willing to shell out?
Trigger 3.3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To answer. I wouldn't pay a dime. A device should work satisfactorily as advertised. If it does not then I choose to take matters into my own hands, either by getting another device or indulging in a community like this one. I just don't think it's as simple as your implying.
Money is a motivator for manufacturers and carriers, but only in the sense of how it impacts meeting deadlines and release schedules. No amount of theoretical payola from end users is going to change this. End users and their perceptions do matter, even to manufacturers. But we're kidding ourselves if we think that our goals here in a place like XDA represent anything remotely close to the majority. They do not.
Android brings an entirely different sort of OS ecosystem to the table than consumers have been accustomed to, and more importantly entirely different than what carriers and manufacturers are accustomed to.
Much of what we have seen in the past few years with regards slow or nonexistent updates has been due to how manufacturers initially approached Android as simply a way to stave off significant R&D. Manufacturers are doing better in this regard as of late, because the ecosystem as a whole is maturing. The market is now lucrative and extensive, but competition is rife.
It is these competitive forces AND ONLY THESE that will improve the situation. Indeed it can be readily argued that this above all else is what has made such update issues ameliorate themselves. The most jaded among us can certainly realize things are much better now for Android as a whole than they were a year ago. Orders of magnitude so!!
Even so, realize that manufacturers will only do what they deem is in their interests when developing for their products. No matter how capable the hardware, or how "open" the infrastructure, manufacturers are in this for profit (as well they should be). Many will realize that supporting existing hardware is in their best interest, but as we've seen in similar scenarios in the PC universe, they will do this to varying degrees and for their own reasons. Some will do better than others and perhaps some of that will play out well with end users and gain them loyal customers. It's as likely that customers will simply go elsewhere because they're enticed to do so. This simply isn't as simple a problem as it was when this whole Android sleighride started anymore.
Communities like XDA have a role to play, and the developers and their efforts made here recontribute to everyone involved. But lets not kid ourselves. The performance of most devices as they ship is, to varying degrees, satisfactory. Most users are not zealots (and lets be frank, most XDA people *ARE*), and many of the concerns expressed here are not only unrealistic they are pointless. It is difficult enough to come up with a concrete list of precisely why 2.3 is better than 2.2, or 2.1 amongst ourselves as it is. To most end users perception (and thus most manufacturers) these distinctions are trivial and meaningless.
XDA is a hacker's maven. An important one, and a valuable one to those of us who participate here. But Android itself is no longer *just* a hacker's wet dream. It's a commercial juggernaut of a platform that is living and thriving quite nicely with or without us as this stage.

I would make a donation to the person who cracks it so people can use it for free.

doug2060 said:
I would make a donation to the person who cracks it so people can use it for free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... Piracy?
I LIKE IT.

I will pay for it. Not to Samsung or t-mobile. I have $20 saved for the first developer who gets gingerbread working stable on our phone.

It's like asking "Would you spend money to buy linux?" Noooo!

HyprGeek said:
It's like asking "Would you spend money to buy linux?" Noooo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do realize not all Linux distros are free right?

I wouldn't.

pvspencer22 said:
You do realize not all Linux distros are free right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but how many go for the paid instead of free?

Top Windows Phone 8 Features you Should know!

I cannot write such a big one here so directly posting the link.
http://winappleworld.com/top-windows-phone-8-features-you-should-know/
WHats your catch about it?
Better then Android??
Put in your thoughts in that Website's comment.
More people will get the information and reviews

You are kidding right?
Data sense - lost in action
Kids corner - useless to most people
Ie10 - most mobile websites are programmed to use WebKit.
Rooms - useless unless everyone has a wp8 device
Wallet and NFC - useless
Work flow and voice - been out for years on android
I'm very disappointed in wp8. It is in no way competitive. I have an iphone5, galaxy s3 and htc 8x. The 8x isn't even close to the other devices. And no I'm not a troll. Only someone talking from experience.
Major fail Microsoft. Wp8 is totally uncompetitive.

Dr.Paul said:
You are kidding right?
Data sense - lost in action
Kids corner - useless to most people
Ie10 - most mobile websites are programmed to use WebKit.
Rooms - useless unless everyone has a wp8 device
Wallet and NFC - useless
Work flow and voice - been out for years on android
I'm very disappointed in wp8. It is in no way competitive. I have an iphone5, galaxy s3 and htc 8x. The 8x isn't even close to the other devices. And no I'm not a troll. Only someone talking from experience.
Major fail Microsoft. Wp8 is totally uncompetitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why come here and post about it? that is considered trolling. We like it, so don't care about your opinion.

WP8 has a lot of going for it. They need more app support, then it can go head to head with android.

gilesjuk said:
Why come here and post about it? that is considered trolling. We like it, so don't care about your opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The op asked for opinions. Microsoft also asks (even if they don't listen) for opinions. Expressing an opinion different to your own is not trolling.
That said...
I like the kids corner thing... really its multi user mode. I just don't think it is a bullet point for 99% of consumers. I watch parents hand their phones to their kids for entertainment every day. Its a nice feature to have multi user environments but needs a better selling job from ms. Think "risque photos on a girls phone, being handed to dad, to make a phonecall" , yes , there is a win.
The features that other phones have had aren't really a huge selling point, if wp just implemented them. It comes across as 'me too!'
If people dont notice the new home screen, its not "new" enough. Having to point out that a puppy has "really floppy cute ears, see !" Means they aren't a big deal, or aren't floppy or cute, or NEW enough. That part is painful to watch. I really felt sorry for the salesman in the wp videos on youtube.
If noticed though, that the latest youtube channel videos are playing on the "smoked" promotion idea. Sending a text message 3 seconds faster (or other very practiced objectives by the host) is a yawner now. It was funny at first with 'smoked' but the stacking of the deck spoiled the fun, people resented it. Guess Microsoft's advertising dollars are learning, and persistant, even to a fault.

Dr.Paul said:
You are kidding right?
Data sense - lost in action
Kids corner - useless to most people
Ie10 - most mobile websites are programmed to use WebKit.
Rooms - useless unless everyone has a wp8 device
Wallet and NFC - useless
Work flow and voice - been out for years on android
I'm very disappointed in wp8. It is in no way competitive. I have an iphone5, galaxy s3 and htc 8x. The 8x isn't even close to the other devices. And no I'm not a troll. Only someone talking from experience.
Major fail Microsoft. Wp8 is totally uncompetitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're delusional. You also obviously are missing the entire point of a mobile experience. They can all have the same features across the board, the implementation is the key focus here. Windows Phone is a joy and ease to use. iPhone is extremely simple to use, but the potential and implementation of it's features are a headache. The ONLY thing that those other two platforms may have over Windows Phone is the marketshare and mindshare to utilize their potentials. Once specific WinPhone8 apps begin to come out, and I mean REAL apps utilizing the new developer features, then you'll see this come to the forefront even more. Android can clean me after a bowel movement, doesn't mean it isn't the most inefficient OS ever created, REQUIRING multiple cores to even be close to the fluidity of Windows Phone. I got honest with myself and said "do I really need the ability to install multiple file explorers on my phone?"

FiyaFleye said:
You're delusional. You also obviously are missing the entire point of a mobile experience. They can all have the same features across the board, the implementation is the key focus here. Windows Phone is a joy and ease to use. iPhone is extremely simple to use, but the potential and implementation of it's features are a headache. The ONLY thing that those other two platforms may have over Windows Phone is the marketshare and mindshare to utilize their potentials. Once specific WinPhone8 apps begin to come out, and I mean REAL apps utilizing the new developer features, then you'll see this come to the forefront even more. Android can clean me after a bowel movement, doesn't mean it isn't the most inefficient OS ever created, REQUIRING multiple cores to even be close to the fluidity of Windows Phone. I got honest with myself and said "do I really need the ability to install multiple file explorers on my phone?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
edit... wait a second, they all have the same features ? really ? cmon man, its ok to be a fan, but that's rediculonk.
don't worry, android is peaking now, and wp or ios will have 70+ marketshare next. that should be just in time for wp9 or 9.5
will wp be ready, or will ios whoop em again ?

C'mon ohgood, your reading skills are better than that, I said "they all can" focusing on the fact that the experience is the main issue. WP does not lack in any necessary consumer feature
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express

You don't have to have wp8 device to use "rooms" It's coming to android & ios also.

FiyaFleye said:
C'mon ohgood, your reading skills are better than that, I said "they all can" focusing on the fact that the experience is the main issue. WP does not lack in any necessary consumer feature
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahhh, "they all can" as in a comparison, not "they all do". sorry, I missed that the first time. gotit.
the rest was "chicken before the egg, which is first" as far as developers go. I was serious in the question as to whether wp9 will be ready when android share starts declining. the developers and mindshare needs to be priority number 1 right now at microsoft campuses.
given past quotes from microsoft, wp8 was in develope
ment when wp7 was released. hopefully wp9 is well underway, tiles have been rethunk, along with opening the platform up and feeding devs everything NOW. (sorry for the run on)
might be a good idea to keep all these wp8 early adopters in mind too... hard to get folks to walk across the same burning bridge twice.

Mate even i have an iPhone 5
Dr.Paul said:
You are kidding right?
Data sense - lost in action
Kids corner - useless to most people
Ie10 - most mobile websites are programmed to use WebKit.
Rooms - useless unless everyone has a wp8 device
Wallet and NFC - useless
Work flow and voice - been out for years on android
I'm very disappointed in wp8. It is in no way competitive. I have an iphone5, galaxy s3 and htc 8x. The 8x isn't even close to the other devices. And no I'm not a troll. Only someone talking from experience.
Major fail Microsoft. Wp8 is totally uncompetitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Dr.Paul said:
You are kidding right?
Data sense - lost in action
Kids corner - useless to most people
Ie10 - most mobile websites are programmed to use WebKit.
Rooms - useless unless everyone has a wp8 device
Wallet and NFC - useless
Work flow and voice - been out for years on android
I'm very disappointed in wp8. It is in no way competitive. I have an iphone5, galaxy s3 and htc 8x. The 8x isn't even close to the other devices. And no I'm not a troll. Only someone talking from experience.
Major fail Microsoft. Wp8 is totally uncompetitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Used a GSIII for about 26 days, it was easily the worst experience I've had on a mobile device. Before you ask yes it was on the stock AT&T ROM. Bloatware everywhere and applications wouldn't be in alphabetical order. It felt unorganized and not uniform to me, I must have OCD and require theme colors lol.
Personally found myself using my phone a lot less when I had the GSIII then when I had my Lumia 920 in just the day to day of whipping it out and messing around with it. Also Skype never worked consistently on the GSIII that was a real pain.
In a side note most reviewers said you have to use two hands on the 920...I single hand it constantly with no issues whatsoever. Guess my hands are freakishly strong or I'm not a little girl.

Mister Locke said:
Used a GSIII for about 26 days, it was easily the worst experience I've had on a mobile device. Before you ask yes it was on the stock AT&T ROM. Bloatware everywhere and applications wouldn't be in alphabetical order. It felt unorganized and not uniform to me, I must have OCD and require theme colors lol.
Personally found myself using my phone a lot less when I had the GSIII then when I had my Lumia 920 in just the day to day of whipping it out and messing around with it. Also Skype never worked consistently on the GSIII that was a real pain.
In a side note most reviewers said you have to use two hands on the 920...I single hand it constantly with no issues whatsoever. Guess my hands are freakishly strong or I'm not a little girl.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apps in alphabetical order on the S3? Tap menu, view mode, alphabetical. Done. Should have read the manual.
Bloat ware? Load the standard rom. Done.

Dr.Paul said:
Bloat ware? Load the standard rom. Done.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which requires rooting your phone in the process, thus voiding your warranty.
This is why Android sucks. You should never make such a significant change for your device to work. Never.

Dr.Paul said:
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am kidding
Data sense - will be there soon
Kids corner - great feature with two kids in the house using our phones to play games
Ie10 - useful and will grow
Rooms - useful with growing number of friends and family owning a WP8 device
Wallet and NFC - useful
Work flow and voice - finally on WP and so much better than on android
I'm extremely satisfied with wp8 and the numbers and sales show that it is and will be very competitive. I used an LG Quantum and what a delight the Lumia 920 is over that. And yes, I am a troll and I am someone talking from experience.
Major move Microsoft. Wp8 is totally competitive.
My point here is that your opinion has nothing to do with decent evaluation. Just using the word "useless" to describe a feature's downside is pretty useless.
cheers

derausgewanderte said:
......the numbers and sales show that it is and will be very competitive.....Major move Microsoft. Wp8 is totally competitive.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you have sales numbers post a link... otherwise, yes enjoy being a fan

ohgood said:
if you have sales numbers post a link... otherwise, yes enjoy being a fan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, never reply to a troll like myself. So where are your numbers then?
and yes, I enjoy being a fan, that's why I'm here....

derausgewanderte said:
LOL, never reply to a troll like myself. So where are your numbers then?
and yes, I enjoy being a fan, that's why I'm here....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't seen any sales numbers yet, so when someone mentions its selling fine.... I ask for numbers

mcosmin222 said:
Which requires rooting your phone in the process, thus voiding your warranty.
This is why Android sucks. You should never make such a significant change for your device to work. Never.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it doesnt.

mcosmin222 said:
Which requires rooting your phone in the process, thus voiding your warranty.
This is why Android sucks. You should never make such a significant change for your device to work. Never.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
root= does not void warrantee. root= full software access, to the user.
...android sucks, never have to make change....
you mean, removing oem installed bloatware is a bad idea ? say it again, OEM INSTALLED BLOATWARE, not operating system bloatware. remember all those laptops / desktops that came preinstalled with norton, from the store? did microsoft install that mess, or did the oem ? hmmm