Database Users

Call to Arms! - Root detection

There is a big problem on the horizon.....
Lovefilm and Sky Go on my iPad have stopped working due to my jailbreak...
Turns out Sky Go doesnt work on Rooted Android either!
As much as i hate Sky as a company we dont have much choice in the UK if you want some decent channels on TV. I dont even use their app that much but this trend seems to be catching on...
More and more apps are refusing to run on Jailbroken iOS and the same will be happening on Android soon enough. They are also actively patching any work arounds or hacks to stop people running apps on Rooted or JB devices.
i really hope some of the talented people who code for android can find a good solution to this problem or even better Google comes out and tells the world that Rooters should not lose out like this.
If we can make it so much work for them to keep fixing the holes then maybe they will get fed up with trying to patch them.
Because if we dont then more and more apps will follow!

irzero said:
There is a big problem on the horizon.....
Lovefilm and Sky Go on my iPad have stopped working due to my jailbreak...
Turns out Sky Go doesnt work on Rooted Android either!
As much as i hate Sky as a company we dont have much choice in the UK if you want some decent channels on TV. I dont even use their app that much but this trend seems to be catching on...
More and more apps are refusing to run on Jailbroken iOS and the same will be happening on Android soon enough. They are also actively patching any work arounds or hacks to stop people running apps on Rooted or JB devices.
i really hope some of the talented people who code for android can find a good solution to this problem or even better Google comes out and tells the world that Rooters should not lose out like this.
If we can make it so much work for them to keep fixing the holes then maybe they will get fed up with trying to patch them.
Because if we dont then more and more apps will follow!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that feel bro
*insert hug meme*

irzero said:
There is a big problem on the horizon.....
Lovefilm and Sky Go on my iPad have stopped working due to my jailbreak...
Turns out Sky Go doesnt work on Rooted Android either!
As much as i hate Sky as a company we dont have much choice in the UK if you want some decent channels on TV. I dont even use their app that much but this trend seems to be catching on...
More and more apps are refusing to run on Jailbroken iOS and the same will be happening on Android soon enough. They are also actively patching any work arounds or hacks to stop people running apps on Rooted or JB devices.
i really hope some of the talented people who code for android can find a good solution to this problem or even better Google comes out and tells the world that Rooters should not lose out like this.
If we can make it so much work for them to keep fixing the holes then maybe they will get fed up with trying to patch them.
Because if we dont then more and more apps will follow!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are some apps out there that will temp unroot your phone so apps like that will work. then you just restore it(OTA rootkeeper allows this). Also I think Siyah kernel supports temp unrooting

graffixnyc said:
There are some apps out there that will temp unroot your phone so apps like that will work. then you just restore it(OTA rootkeeper allows this). Also I think Siyah kernel supports temp unrooting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Siyah kernel does support temp unrooting, but somehow Sky Go still knows your phone is rooted, and it won't work. So far from the reading I have done there is no solution to this other than to flash back to a stock unrooted firmware.

I don't think it will become the rule on android, because there are to many apps that even need root, but at ios, probably because jailbreak is the only possibility to get, at least partially, out of their ecosystem.
Gesendet von meinem GT-I9300 mit Tapatalk 2

someone found a work around for the Barclays banking app I think...I'm sure it was here in general so you may find some hints there
---------- Post added at 08:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 AM ----------
here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1823649
[HOW TO] Barclays Mobile Banking working on rooted S3

As far as I know. Sky Go has gotten around everything so far.
I see not to far in the future a situation where you have to either root and lose lots of apps you use or lose the root lose lots of apps you use.
That's a crap situation for sure
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Sky have invested a heck of a lot of time and money to making the latest Sky Go apps very very hard to hack!
They now do a lot of checking on their severs which makes it impossible for us to hack around.
I am sorry but I don't think we will ever get sky go working properly with root, and as soon as we did sky would update the app to fix the loophole.

Google won't do anything because rooted android isn't standard android. The android platform isn't built like windows or OS X, where the default is the user having root available.
Therefore security (DRM in particular) on those platforms is built with that in mind. Android isn't.
Also, while you might have the best of intentions there are plenty of root-users who would use it to copy content offline, trick it into thinking you have a subscription whe you don't etc.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

Lennyuk said:
Sky have invested a heck of a lot of time and money to making the latest Sky Go apps very very hard to hack!
They now do a lot of checking on their severs which makes it impossible for us to hack around.
I am sorry but I don't think we will ever get sky go working properly with root, and as soon as we did sky would update the app to fix the loophole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This sux for sure.
On iPad they sandboxed the app in its own virtual environment. could this trick it into think its running on unrooted firmware?

I can't see how there is no way around this. If the app tests root, deny it, if it scans for root binaries, change/rename them. What am I missing here? Is there some other level of detection somewhere?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

esist said:
Google won't do anything because rooted android isn't standard android. The android platform isn't built like windows or OS X, where the default is the user having root available.
Therefore security (DRM in particular) on those platforms is built with that in mind. Android isn't.
Also, while you might have the best of intentions there are plenty of root-users who would use it to copy content offline, trick it into thinking you have a subscription whe you don't etc.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You cant get the content without a subscription anyway, the problem has been people UDID spoofing and getting more active devices than they are allowed. Its a joke that they limit this anyway they should just make it so you can only be logged in on 2 devices at any one time using traditional methods like IP address and IMEI

alias_neo said:
I can't see how there is no way around this. If the app tests root, deny it, if it scans for root binaries, change/rename them. What am I missing here? Is there some other level of detection somewhere?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
temporary unroot doesnt even work so i dont know how it works personally. Out of my depth on this

alias_neo said:
I can't see how there is no way around this. If the app tests root, deny it, if it scans for root binaries, change/rename them. What am I missing here? Is there some other level of detection somewhere?
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Sky Go app is a bastard
This is a list of some of the things it checks (but not all)
- Root binaries
- Root App
- Phone model
- Android version
- Custom Recovery
- Custom Kernels
- IMEI checks (stops wifi-only tablets..)
The first 4 are simple to overcome, the last three cause major issues!

Lennyuk said:
The Sky Go app is a bastard
This is a list of some of the things it checks (but not all)
- Root binaries
- Root App
- Phone model
- Android version
- Custom Recovery
- Custom Kernels
- IMEI checks (stops wifi-only tablets..)
The first 4 are simple to overcome, the last three cause major issues!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would that stop wifi tablets? it works on my iPad wifi only?

irzero said:
Why would that stop wifi tablets? it works on my iPad wifi only?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the Apple skygo app works differently, it doesn't check for IMEI.
wifi-only android tablets do not have IMEI numbers so it will always fail this check

Lennyuk said:
The Sky Go app is a bastard
This is a list of some of the things it checks (but not all)
- Root binaries
- Root App
- Phone model
- Android version
- Custom Recovery
- Custom Kernels
- IMEI checks (stops wifi-only tablets..)
The first 4 are simple to overcome, the last three cause major issues!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How in earth does this user space application have the ability to check custom recovery? I suppose kernel might be easy, but recovery??
Still, there must be ways around it.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

alias_neo said:
How in earth does this user space application have the ability to check custom recovery? I suppose kernel might be easy, but recovery??
Still, there must be ways around it.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats the thing, we (me and two others who worked on hacking this app) couldn't work it out! But it definitely was detecting it, we tried it on Samsung and HTC devices with no root and stock kernel but with a custom recovery and sky go stopped worked, change back to stock recovery and the app works again but we could not find any code that checked it.
On most devices to get it to work you need a stock based rom, stock recovery (unless recovery is part of kernel like S2) stock based kernel (ro.secure=1 must be set!) no or hidden root. You then need to make sure you fit the device or version checks, if you don't you need a hacked app that allows you to do this.
However the latest sky go apps do a sever side check for the apps signature (so you cannot decompile and recompile without changing this). So basically we can no longer do even the most basic of hacks.

Lennyuk said:
Thats the thing, we (me and two others who worked on hacking this app) couldn't work it out! But it definitely was detecting it, we tried it on Samsung and HTC devices with no root and stock kernel but with a custom recovery and sky go stopped worked, change back to stock recovery and the app works again but we could not find any code that checked it.
On most devices to get it to work you need a stock based rom, stock recovery (unless recovery is part of kernel like S2) stock based kernel (ro.secure=1 must be set!) no or hidden root. You then need to make sure you fit the device or version checks, if you don't you need a hacked app that allows you to do this.
However the latest sky go apps do a sever side check for the apps signature (so you cannot decompile and recompile without changing this). So basically we can no longer do even the most basic of hacks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Surely you can modify it to spoof the signature the app uses to send to the server...
They really have gone all out eh.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Well done sky, you bastards!
I have a Nexus 7 2012 WiFi only so ytheres no chance of using it on there :'(
Thanks LennyUK

Considering stock roms are getting better, does anyone see rooting a phone an option

What I mean is that, at least with myself, and a few other users, that stock is good enough to not warrant a custom ROM. Many just want root to customize their experience a little farther than stock. For myself, it's just enabling unlocked wireless tether, adblocking and getting rid of bloatware. I seriously don't think companies would make the process easier. But I thought I'd throw the question out there. I know that the completely stock experience is made to best protect the average consumer from malware and mucking up their phone. I realize that locking down a lot of things keeps the average technically uninformed user from breaking their phone. What are your thoughts on this subject?

I agree with your observation that stock ROMs are getting better and better and it'll most likely be more than good enough or perfectly adequate for the non-techy average user.
However, based on the industry practice of carriers still loading up phones with their own apps, customizations, and other bloatware, I think root will be desirable and necessary still for a long time to come.
After getting my S4, I immediately rooted it to uninstall many Sprint and Samsung apps that I couldn't otherwise. Root was also necessary to add adblocking software, a firewall, and to customize what I didn't like about TW through the Xposed framework.

I agree that custom ROMs may not be as necessary as they used to be but they are still a relatively easy way for people to get a different look with little effort.
I had mine rooted within 30 minutes of getting home with it. Still need root for Titanium Backup. Custom Recovery for Nandroids and flashing Mods and a Custom kernel just because. Using Xposed and Notach and Viper4Android and of course the Tether unlock.

Hey total noob question. If I root my S4 and leave the stock rom on the phone, will I still get all the firmware updates?

mr_mojorisen said:
Hey total noob question. If I root my S4 and leave the stock rom on the phone, will I still get all the firmware updates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes.

mr_mojorisen said:
Hey total noob question. If I root my S4 and leave the stock rom on the phone, will I still get all the firmware updates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe so as long as you have the stock recovery.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using xda app-developers app

optimummind said:
I agree with your observation that stock ROMs are getting better and better and it'll most likely be more than good enough or perfectly adequate for the non-techy average user.
However, based on the industry practice of carriers still loading up phones with their own apps, customizations, and other bloatware, I think root will be desirable and necessary still for a long time to come.
After getting my S4, I immediately rooted it to uninstall many Sprint and Samsung apps that I couldn't otherwise. Root was also necessary to add adblocking software, a firewall, and to customize what I didn't like about TW through the Xposed framework.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whats the best way to remove the bloatware? I'm rooted already.

A way that would would still get updates, disable programs in the application manager. You will still lose root though.

ashton4life said:
Whats the best way to remove the bloatware? I'm rooted already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like Root App Delete, which is here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=zsj.android.uninstall
and also Titanium Backup.

Pros and cons of a rooted Note 3

Hello,
What are the prons and cons if i root my Note 3? Please do not answer something like "you can install some stuff and change system settings". Try to be specific.
Thank you.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

If you don't know why to root it, then don't root it.

Bucika said:
If you don't know why to root it, then don't root it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is why i haven't rooted yet. I am trying to get more information and then i will decide. And you haven't offered any info on that.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

ioannis66 said:
That is why i haven't rooted yet. I am trying to get more information and then i will decide. And you haven't offered any info on that.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There arent really any cons unless you like doing OTA updates (which usually can be added manually later)

My favorite part is being able to do any app in multi window
Sent from my T-Mobile note 3

pro's of rooting :
bloatware deletion
app and data backups and restores
customization/tweaking of buildprops and setting in the root environment of android
tether hacks
some apps in the playstore require root access
more control over your device
changing boot animations
just because...
those are just a couple of good reasons to root. it just comes down to having more control and customization of your device. if you're not a tweaker then you probably wouldn't benefit from rooting.

neederishelp said:
My favorite part is being able to do any app in multi window
Sent from my T-Mobile note 3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
new to me, tell me how or post a link pls

I agree that you should only root if you have a specific reason. Mine is a app called proxydroid, my university's wifi has a proxy that is only set up to work with laptops. I use this app to be able to let any app, not just the browser use the network. If it weren't for this reason I don't see that much gain in rooting at the moment. Still no Cyanogenmod or any AOSP for that matter. Closest in look and feel is X Note Rom with Kit Kat addons and loads of Xposed tweaks... but CM it ain't.
Also warranty in my country, South Africa, is a complete joke... I've rooted every device since my old HTC Wildfire the day I got them. I prefer having a custom recovery so I can fix my own issues than a non-existant warranty for reassurance. If the phone is physically damaged the warranty is void according to my carrier anyway so...
Bottom line: Only root if you have real uses for it, and if warranty is not that important to you.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app

weedahoe said:
new to me, tell me how or post a link pls
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wanam Xposed has this feature. - I have had some issues with it not working 100% but it seems to be half decent.

I root to be able to use my phone for computer tasks - connect to and mount file shares, connect to my home VPN, copy files to and from USB devices, run Linux utilities at the command line, install a full Linux chroot, etc. I also use root to block ads with AdAway, remove bloatware apps, remove knox crap, install a custom recovery, and use that to flash a new ROM. There are a ton of uses for root. Probably the most useful, however, is the ability to change display density. Changing the default dpi from 480 to 320 gives you more screen area and makes the device feel more like a true tablet. It really improves the experience a lot.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app

pros of rooting? You will be rooted! (aka full access to system files)
You dedide if you need that or not. (aka you like to mod stuff or just like to use the phone as it is)

CalcProgrammer1 said:
I root to be able to use my phone for computer tasks - connect to and mount file shares, connect to my home VPN, copy files to and from USB devices, run Linux utilities at the command line, install a full Linux chroot, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sure that you need root for that?
CalcProgrammer1 said:
I also use root to block ads with AdAway, remove bloatware apps, remove knox crap, install a custom recovery, and use that to flash a new ROM. There are a ton of uses for root. Probably the most useful, however, is the ability to change display density. Changing the default dpi from 480 to 320 gives you more screen area and makes the device feel more like a true tablet. It really improves the experience a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep you need root for those, but how many people actually need that?
Adaway - You could spend a couple of bucks to buy the product so that the developer doesn't rely on ads for income.
Bloatware can be disabled in 4.3 without root.
Custom Recovery - so you trip the knox trigger then
Change DPI - I already have a true tablet, the Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 edition
Seriously you need to do more to convince me. I rooted my Note 2 and my Note 10.1 (2012 Edition). When I think what I achieved with the root, then I'm left with the impression that I wasted my time.
These devices provide so much functionality that root is unnecessary for most things. When I find a killer functionality that really NEEDS root then I'll root it/them with CF Autoroot and f*ck knox.
Until then I'll run stock unrooted.

To use a bridged VPN you need root, to install the openvpn and ssh binaries you need root, and to mount shares system-wide you need root. To use a chroot you need root as well. Not everyone needs those things but I'm just listing my personal root uses. I have a tablet as well but using my Note as a tablet is more convenient since I always have it. The dpi fix is great for that. I don't care about the knox flag either, I bought the phone knowing full well I'd be putting a ROM on it as soon as one is available. If you care about the warranty rooting might not be the best idea since they could use it as an excuse to refuse service.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app

At this stage, there arent really any. The cpu is blistering fast. Also is the stock rom very smooth.
More cons the pros @ the moment
U can brick ur note 3, for what ?
Greetings from Morocco
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app

I'm interested to know what the effect of selinux Enforcing.
One of my main reasons for rooting is using Titanium backup and I read somewhere that this won't work even when rooted. Is that true.
I also like to change my DNS to open dns which also requires root.

newbie (not to rooting/just been with icrap for the past 4-5 years). can someone explain the significance of the knox counter. yes, i can extrapolate that it gets tripped if you root the phone a certain way which tells carrier/samsung phone has been modified via software flashes, but so what? what does it mean to end user if knox is tripped, and how could it adversely affect one?
thanks.

It doesn't affect anything unless you actually use the Knox environment, which is designed for business/enterprise stuff. If you don't use that, it doesn't matter at all to the software. The real concern is that it alerts Samsung/T-Mo that you flashed custom software and they can use it as an excuse to refuse warranty services.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using xda app-developers app

Question
Will rooting my tmobile samsung galaxy note 3 make the wireless hotspot not work or disappear and is there any other features that I would lose like the Samsung apps ?

drexd said:
newbie (not to rooting/just been with icrap for the past 4-5 years). can someone explain the significance of the knox counter. yes, i can extrapolate that it gets tripped if you root the phone a certain way which tells carrier/samsung phone has been modified via software flashes, but so what? what does it mean to end user if knox is tripped, and how could it adversely affect one?
thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Knox is just a flash counter that tells the service centre how many times you have flashed your device. But this flash counter is irrelevant anyways because according the FSFE, if our phones did need repairing, they have to prove that rooting or changing system software was the direct cause of the malfunction. That's your statutory right! Unfortunately this only applies in Europe. So if my phone breaks and they cannot prove its my fault then they are obliged under statutory law to fix my device with no cost to me!
Sent from my hlte using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

ioannis66 said:
Hello,
What are the prons and cons if i root my Note 3? Please do not answer something like "you can install some stuff and change system settings". Try to be specific.
Thank you.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on what you want to do with your phone. If you like it the way it is stock than keep stock!!! If you like to play with your phone (not talking games) and like it to look and operate like you want than root. Few possibilities with root:
-change sound
-change battery consumption (through kernel & apps)
-raise performance
And a couple of other stuff. But be aware you can also mess up your device if you're not careful!!!

is it hopeless waiting for turbo development?

I see there is a thread abt a reward for who ever makes an exploit to root the turbo.
I have an upgrade available but I don't want to waste it on a phone that can't even be rooted. Another thing is that this decision is on limited time. Because once the turbo gets lollipop , rooting will be out the window . so if you wait to long to get the turbo and it's shipped from the factory with lollipop, your screwed from the get go. So judging by the older lines of "moto droids" do you think or have read anything online abt development being slim to none?
Or any future plans on a developers edition ?
The nexus 6 is just to big for me. And the moto x is just not for me

Yeah i dont think so..This community is pretty inactive.

ultramegaman963 said:
Yeah i dont think so..This community is pretty inactive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
93fuelslut said:
I see there is a thread abt a reward for who ever makes an exploit to root the turbo.
I have an upgrade available but I don't want to waste it on a phone that can't even be rooted. Another thing is that this decision is on limited time. Because once the turbo gets lollipop , rooting will be out the window . so if you wait to long to get the turbo and it's shipped from the factory with lollipop, your screwed from the get go. So judging by the older lines of "moto droids" do you think or have read anything online abt development being slim to none?
Or any future plans on a developers edition ?
The nexus 6 is just to big for me. And the moto x is just not for me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are forgetting that there is another variant of the Turbo, the Maxx one that will come with unlockable bootloader and free of Verizon crap. People will make it their way to get on of those, and probably development will be significantly more active that with Turbo.
On the other hand, Lollipop doesn't mean no more root, there are already devices with Lollipop and gained root few days ago, so it shouldn't be a worry.
:fingers-crossed:

Correct about root and lollipop but what's the point? Why do you NEED root and unlocked boot loader when lollipop gets here? Xposed won't work. Lollipop will be the os that negates the need for root.
Sent from my XT1254 using XDA Free mobile app

rhouse1983 said:
Correct about root and lollipop but what's the point? Why do you NEED root and unlocked boot loader when lollipop gets here? Xposed won't work. Lollipop will be the os that negates the need for root.
Sent from my XT1254 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xposed doesn't work yet, but likely will in the future. And there are other things to use root for than just Xposed. Such as Tasker, AdFree, Cerberus, etc. Root works great on my Nexus 7 with Lollipop, albeit without Xposed.

I mainly want/need root for ARLiberator or ARUnchained. Right now I can cast to my receiver and get sound but ARU gave full mirroring and allowed me to control my phone through my headunit (with root). Combined with Tasker to automate and it was fantastic. Xposed was real nice to have and I'm sure it will be updated for L at some point but I wasn't really using a whole lot on there I'll miss. Same goes for battery tweaker like Greenify. It was awesome with root and combined with Xposed but w/ the monster battery on this thing and the improvements with Project Volta I'm thinking I won't miss it so much.

Just want root access to freeze the VZW crap. My 2 cents.

scottysize said:
Just want root access to freeze the VZW crap. My 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can disable those apps now which is essentially the same thing.

Disable works just as good

Hadn't tried that. Just hid them using a launcher. OK, I'll disable them. Gracias!

I don't think it's hopeless. Just look at the bounty. No, it's no guarantee a dev will obtain that full amount but it show's that we're interested.
My guess and hope is that the Middle Man will come back and we'll be able to get unlock codes. It's our best shot.
In the meantime I'll stay at KitKat and cross my fingers. Root for me will give me custom DPI's which 4.7"+ phones need so badly. Besides that I'm doing just fine without root. Yeah, a few customization options would be fine but stock Motorola Android flies!

Only thing I really want/need is WiFi Tether. I've managed to tether using a USB but the process is way more complex and only allows for one device at a time.
Sent from my XT1254 using XDA Free mobile app

Without root you cannot manipulate the hosts file meaning you cannot block ads completely as you can with root. This alone is enough to make root worthwhile for me because I despise ads. I also like to change fonts at the system level and make many other customizations that require root and lollipop in no way negates those needs.
Not that my opinion or likes and dislikes matter. And that's the thing, people who say root is not needed speak for themselves just as I speak for myself and no one else. I don't ever say YOU need root or YOU do not need root because I have no business deciding what someone else does or does not need. Just saying...

I just think it's going to take some time gents. Phone has been out for what? Two weeks?

coreywallen said:
Only thing I really want/need is WiFi Tether. I've managed to tether using a USB but the process is way more complex and only allows for one device at a time.
Sent from my XT1254 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. This is the on thing I really want. I can live without the rest of the stuff. If I could pay for an app that worked for wifi tether I would do that and probably be happy without root all together.

I had the RAZR maxx HD. I thought we'd never get root for the longest time. It took a while - a bunch of months, at least, but we got it.
Now, the maxx HD never was nearly as popular as the droid turbo. That's a fact.
I'm sure someone out there will find a way. It's not about if, but when. That's my opinion, at least

2 things I want root for..
Messing with speaker output
And shutter speed of the camera

This phone will probably never be rooted, but if you aren't okay with that then why would you ever buy this device?

Maybe I'm not understanding this, but why is a developers edition needed? Why dont you just unlock developer mode on the phone you get? I did.

93fuelslut said:
I see there is a thread abt a reward for who ever makes an exploit to root the turbo.
I have an upgrade available but I don't want to waste it on a phone that can't even be rooted. Another thing is that this decision is on limited time. Because once the turbo gets lollipop , rooting will be out the window . so if you wait to long to get the turbo and it's shipped from the factory with lollipop, your screwed from the get go. So judging by the older lines of "moto droids" do you think or have read anything online abt development being slim to none?
Or any future plans on a developers edition ?
The nexus 6 is just to big for me. And the moto x is just not for me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What makes you think L will be any worse than the latest 4.4.4. I think its a crap shoot it could happen either way. Do You Feel Lucky? HaHa

Android Pay is not working as of today on root, systemless or not.

It seems that Android Pay has stopped working for anyone who has root as of now. https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/43bl05/newest_safetynet_check_detects_systemless_root/
Pay was working for me last night as it had for weeks. When I heard the rumbles, I checked using safteynet helper and it failed. Just to make sure I tried to pay with it and it failed.
Hopefully this is temporary, but it seems Goggle is being pretty aggressive with patching any issues, so it will be "iffy" at best. At least we don't have to answer anymore, "How can I get Pay to work with my ROM" questions.
Some more info; Being the check is made via an API and is server side, you can't downgrade any app to get it to work. While Chainfire is a deity and I doubt it will take him too long to pop in a fix, Google has an army and cash and if this is important to them, which it is, they will beat him sooner or later. You can un-root and use Pay, then reroot.
For me, while Pay was fun, I've carried a wallet and plastic forever, so it's a no brainer for me, custom rom it is.
Update 1/30/16: If we needed anymore proof; http://www.xda-developers.com/android-pay-no-longer-working-with-systemless-root/

I second that... I love v4a way too much to go back to stock. Android Pay is ...uh "a cute little gimmick" thats it. Most of the relevant places won't even let you use it. I have my RFID wallet and that's safe enough for me. Using AP out in public is just a way to show off and get your phone stolen quicker. Besides I'm not giving Google my fingerprint. So I'll stay on custom ROMs that's why I bought a Nexus, that's why anyone buys a Nexus. If Google is going to start locking down there devices like Apple and Samsung... Then I might as well buy THE best locked down phone out there and thats the iPhone...hands down.
People buy Nexus phones because of the customization possibilities. Let's face it at the end of the day customization is all the Nexus and other phones like it have going for if... That's why I own one.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I think it's better like this. If you want to use android pay, stay on stock. Android pay shouldn't have worked with root to begin with.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA Labs

The Zel said:
I think it's better like this. If you want to use android pay, stay on stock. Android pay shouldn't have worked with root to begin with.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True I have Nexus 6 and a 6p...I'll just keep one of them stock with Android Pay and the other will be my toy to play around with custom ROMs. Easy to swap out a sim card. Easy fix
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

The Zel said:
I think it's better like this. If you want to use android pay, stay on stock. Android pay shouldn't have worked with root to begin with.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It bothers me admit that I cant do anything and everything I want to an item I bought and own (Legally of course), especially a Nexus. I root, I accept liability, end of story. But we all know how accepting liability means nothing today.
I understand why Google is doing what they are with Pay and security, rooting makes the device less secure according to the banks. I used Wallet a lot, but I'm sure Google had a concern being they were holding the liability on that vs. Pay and the banks.
Pay was convenient for sure, but I always have to have my drivers license with me and I always have some plastic and having a feature rich rom beats Pay any day, I think it's an easy choice.

Djfrost said:
True I have Nexus 6 and a 6p...I'll just keep one of them stock with Android Pay and the other will be my toy to play around with custom ROMs. Easy to swap out a sim card. Easy fix
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn bro, your gonna carry 2 phones now! It's a lot easier to just throw some plastic in your pocket!

Just more proof we need MultiRom capabilities!

Interesting read, guess I'm going back to standard root. Root is the only way for me to use Verizon wifi hotspot on a unlimited plan.