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So I was looking at the iPad 2 conference on my Engadget app, and at 10:10am he mentioned that Honeycomb only has 100 apps compared to the iPad apps. And before that talked about the Galaxy S tabs. Check it out
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...les-ipad-2-event/&category=classic&postPage=1
Ps...why is he back...
Sent from MYN EVOlutionary cellular....uh....mini tablet?
Is it 'disrespect' or just 'fact?'
I mean, you'd expect iPod to have a larger ecosystem -- right now.
I'm not an Android nor Apple fan boy; both entities are contributing to the forward movement of technology, which can only benefit us in the long run. Let's not get caught up on his words. In fact, they may stir the Android community to develop more and better apps for Android tablets to come.
Let's face it: No tablet is ever going to come close to the iPad or Apple, because big corps. just don't get it.
Hrshycro said:
Let's face it: No tablet is ever going to come close to the iPad or Apple, because big corps. just don't get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple is not a big corp?!
I was talking about the other big corps trying to make tablets. Not saying apple gets everything right, they don't, but they understand the majority and have a pretty good business model.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Ruki_Uki said:
So I was looking at the iPad 2 conference on my Engadget app, and at 10:10am he mentioned that Honeycomb only has 100 apps compared to the iPad apps. And before that talked about the Galaxy S tabs. Check it out
http://m.engadget.com/default/artic...les-ipad-2-event/&category=classic&postPage=1
Ps...why is he back...
Sent from MYN EVOlutionary cellular....uh....mini tablet?
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I've owned a iPhone 3G then moved to the EVO because android was more open and it supported flash.
I was going to attempt to make a reasonable post on how moronic it sounds to try and downplay the impact the iPad2 will have.
But I rather just say this: Nothing will come close to beating the iPad2 in terms of an market ecosystem/product design/buzz/fanboyism/price point within a reasonable competitive time frame.
The Xoom is more expensive and does not even currently support flash. One of the sharpest points Android has against iOS. HTC forth coming tablet is basically an EVO with a larger screen.
And lets not forget the iOS is way more flexible once you jailbroke it, which in itself is not terribly hard to do compared to when the first iPhone's came out.
I'm going to purchase a tablet this year, and had my heart set on an android tablet. The iPad2 made that choice a lot harder. HC still has a way to go begin to penetrate that tablet space.
IPad 2 is sexy. I love honeycomb but, android needs to work with the device manufacturers closer to be able to match apples software/hardware synergy. Everything the iPad2 does has been crafted so beautifully while something like the xoom still don't compare. Even the original iPad looks better and move smoother than the xoom. Based on the video on Engadget the iPad2 takes that to another level. **** the iPad2 cover is also amazing. Don't get me wrong my phone will most likely will always be an Android because of widgets but I think I want an iPad2.
if apple knew anything about what their customers wanted they'd of included flash on their devices by now...
How in the hell can they still not have flash on the ipad 2? where is the logic in that? Tablets are supposed to be replacements for netbooks/laptops, you would think the most basic thing to have would be flash....
I think the flash (non)support is adobe's choosing. Some battle between Apple and Adobe.
Regardless on your feelings for Steve Jobs and Apple, If it weren't for Steve Jobs, the Evo probably wouldn't even exist. Neither would Android, at least not in their current forms.
The iPhone is what brought about this cellular "reniassance". Try to remember the smartphone scene before the iPhone. It was pretty much non existant unless you it was your hobby, or you needed one for work. And remember the choices? The old Palm OS, Blackberrys, which did absolutely nothing but messaging, and Windows Mobile. Palm OS and Windows Mobile were little more than PDA's with celluar radios. Apple put the smartphone in the eyes and hands of the average person.
Of course he's going to trash talk Android, it's finally a legit competitor to iOS. WebOS, while a nice OS, has absolute trash for hardware. WindowsPhone7 will stay around I think, it has promise, but it launched on last years hardware missing features from last years smartphones, so it has some catching up to do. Blackberry might be ok if the new QNX based platform comes out, but QNX was developed for terminals and what not, and not meant to rely on a battery, so battery life was not a concern.
Anyway you look at it, it's a good time if you like smartphones, and you have Apple to thank for it.
dbonbass said:
I think the flash (non)support is adobe's choosing. Some battle between Apple and Adobe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope. Apple won't allow third party dev platforms on their devices. Adobe even made it so you could build a Flash application and then compile for iOS or whatever so Apple made it against the TOS to even develop on any other platform.
The thing is, so many iOS apps are fancy frontends for websites or things you can do in Flash/Air. If you could run Flash apps in a browser or Flash player app, you immediately have access to a ton of the things iOS apps can do...but without Apple getting their cut of every sale. It undermines their control over a closed ecosystem which has kept their devices both relatively stable and incredibly lucrative.
Adobe has been pissed at Apple ever since they screwed them over when they dropped Carbon64 for Cocoa, wasting years of Adobe development for OSX. Since Windows was a riper market and more open for developers, they started to put a lot more effort into their Windows ports. Jobs got pissed about that and has held a grudge since. Between that and the desire for complete control, they have a pretty uneasy relationship with Adobe.
dbonbass said:
The iPhone is what brought about this cellular "reniassance". Try to remember the smartphone scene before the iPhone. It was pretty much non existant unless you it was your hobby, or you needed one for work. And remember the choices? The old Palm OS, Blackberrys, which did absolutely nothing but messaging, and Windows Mobile. Palm OS and Windows Mobile were little more than PDA's with celluar radios. Apple put the smartphone in the eyes and hands of the average person.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There were some pretty good smart phones before the iPhone. I had Treos and Pocket PCs and they had GPS, copy/paste, 3rd party apps, touch screens, etc. long before the iPhone existed. Even when the iPhone came out it didn't have most of the features of a smart phone.
What it *did* have was a bigger/more responsive screen and a great mobile browser. That was the contribution of the iPhone. It was a great contribution and one I totally appreciate but it was an evolution, not a revolution. The other big contribution was putting the Apple marketing machine behind it. Apple doesn't screw around when it comes to marketing whereas Palm and Microsoft and RIM never seemed interested in marketing direct to consumer instead of to business. Aside from the Palm Centro, you wouldn't really see ads for these things so people kept buying RAZRs and such for the most part.
The whole market has been evolving long before the iPhone. They didn't start it but rather let others break ground as they usually do, and then once a lot of the roadblocks were out of the way, they put out a device that was missing a lot of common smart phone features but which was very attractive to a wide market which wasn't being addressed and was not aware of what they were missing.
I'm glad this happened because it helped to popularize big screens and good mobile browsers. Other platforms and devices likewise influenced Apple to add things like GPS, copy/paste, third party apps, multitasking, changeable wallpapers, etc.
It's win-win for us since we have better options to choose from.
People keep harping on flash but skyfire works on IOS and shows flash just fine. I mean its been out since like last November.
cdszoke said:
IPad 2 is sexy. I love honeycomb but, android needs to work with the device manufacturers closer to be able to match apples software/hardware synergy. Everything the iPad2 does has been crafted so beautifully while something like the xoom still don't compare. Even the original iPad looks better and move smoother than the xoom. Based on the video on Engadget the iPad2 takes that to another level. **** the iPad2 cover is also amazing. Don't get me wrong my phone will most likely will always be an Android because of widgets but I think I want an iPad2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except the fact remains is iOS sucks horribly at multi-tasking.
LOL I read the title of this thread and thought of the first Fast and Furious movie where the guy says SWAT came into his house and disrespected his family.
splmonster said:
Except the fact remains is iOS sucks horribly at multi-tasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Explain. Why would I want a calculator app running in the background taking up memory? Or having rouge apps cause wake lock problems? iOS has background processing for things that make sense, push notifications for updates, and save states for everything else. That frees up memory, CPU time, and battery life.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
I will be the first one to say I hate Steve jobs out of all my friends. Ipad 2 just gave every tablet a run for its money even the ones that aren't out yet that will launch thus year. Flash doesn't really mean crap 1 its still slow on the evos browser and html 5 will eventually be that standard I believe. I finally bought my first macbook pro this year 2 weeks ago. I have always been a windows user and could have purchased a windows comp with better specs than my macbook pro for half the price. Wanna know why I hate steve jobs/apple do much; because APPLE has the market by the balls. I don't know how else to explain it but they do.
Sent from my Evo in your sisters closet using Tapatalk
It is what it is... I don't get caught up in the wars between smartphone/tablet makers. I just let them battle it out because in the end.. competition is good for the consumer.
Like it or not, Apple puts out quality products... can't deny that. It's easier for them to perfect what they have because they use their own hardware/software where as android is on a lot of different hardware.
A lot of these so called "mid-range" android phones are garbage and really gives them a bad name. I'll call out the samsung acclaim... I know 3 people with that phone and it is their first android phone..and it is total junk. Between all 3 of them they random reboots, horrible battery, unresponsive screens, lag and hang ups out the rear.
I'm all for making yourself available.. but when you put products like that out that people are foced to keep for the duration of their contract, then you'll lose customers. The 3 people I know are definitely going iphone next.
I think that is just one of the ways Apple keeps their place among the top of the line.. by not putting their software on crap hardware that ultimately results in a bad rep for your product.
Just remember. Good marketing beats a good product all day long.
At the end of the day, this is just another rerun of 1984. Apple doesn't want to license their hardware nor software. Along comes IBM (In this case Android) and the clones which eventually let way to Windows which can be run on any IBM compatible (Android devices). Sound familiar?
I picked up this tablet mainly to play around with app development, but I must say, I am seriously underwhelmed. No Netflix, no skype video, can't get my DISH sling player to work on it, my digital copy movies won't even load, other movies which I have burned are choppy, seems evey time you jump back to a list (app store, settings uninstall, etc) you get put at the top of the list instead of where you left off, no native network sharing support, the micro sd is not hot swapable, many of the aps in the app store are hlf baked, haven't figured out how to do a mass clear of notifications (and this is a much applauded feature, where is the stinking "clear all"), the browser zoom is kind of quirky, and when I clicked the email link to reset my password for the XDA site here, it went into this wierd hypnotic flickering fit and I had to kill the browser session
...yada, yada, yada
Seriously, I don't know how anyone can even begin to copare this to the ipad (1 or 2), for all of the Apple bashing I have seen, all I have to say is "It just works". If I bought this to actually use in place of what I do with my IPad, and not to learn and try my hand at Android development, it would be on it's way back to the store right now or listed on eBay.
Even though it is only an iPad 1, it is HANDS DOWN WAAAAYYYYY BETTER. Steve can rest assured, even at this point in the game, if this is what the competition hads to offer, the iPad's future is quite secure. I mean, 5 minutes with Garage Band on the iPad and you realize it is like comparing a BMW to a Chevy Comaro. Yes the Camaro may look cool, but it is not nearly the same level of refinement and quality.
As it stands right now, I would classify the transformer as a novelty at best. Great idea having the ability to dock it to a keyboard, but I so wish they had used this concept on the ep121 (which I also own) as originally teased in the press kits as it would have truly provide a best in class device that could cross between a work horse and media/gaming device.
I really wanted to like this too. So sad, as the hardware and form factor are really quite nice.
Perhaps it may yet mature, but I see a lot of iffy post on Tegra 2 supporting DRM or MP4 support which allows me to play any of the movies in my video library.
But hey, it'll play flash content. Whooptedo
Different strokes for different folks. An iPad would serve no purpose for me. iPads have been out for nearly 2 years and I have had no desire to own one. I wanted a Transformer from the day I saw it mentioned on Engadget.
Garage Band is not a big deal. I've had it on my Mac since 2005, so using it on a tablet doesn't thrill me. Not sure what the real point of your post was. Coming on an Eee Pad TF forum and bashing the product you just bought, but everyone who purchased this over the iPad had a reason to do so and an iPad doesn't appeal to most of us or we certainly could have and would have purchased one.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Honeycomb is still early in development...it's only going to get better...
Garage band is just an app. try to compare iOS to honeycomb, most important is what the OS can do
the iPads been out for about one year and honeycomb is still in its infancy and I like my transformer heck I'm typing on it now but I have some light bleed and a dead pixel so I may replac it soon
I would never waste my money on an iPad because I do not want to connect the iPad to a PC to do almost everything. What's the point of owning a tablet if it cannot be used as a standalone device?
But hey, many people like the simplicity of the iPad and like being imprisoned with iTunes.
First of all the SD card is hot swappable.
Second of all, I own an iPad 2 and yes it's more buggy but it's a lot more functional. The iPad is nice and all but iOS is NOT a tablet OS. Honeycomb is. Dvd rips should play fine with moboplayer. HD videos play smooth after encoding with handbrake, keyboard is amazing and I have had no browser trouble.
One thing is for sure I wouldn't suggest the transformer to technologically impaired people ( like yourself), just like I wouldn't recommend any android device for them. If you want simplicity the iPad is nice, it does what you probably want to do smooth and easy. But if I want to type up an email or take notes or do anything related to content creation and not just consumption, I'll pick the transformer any day.
Haters gonna hate.
Garage Band? Seriously? GB's for kids. If I really wanted to make some music, there are better progs out there i'd want to use and I wouldn't be using an ipad.
I think the op was expecting too much. He knew what he was getting into before he got it and if he didn't, then he didn't do his due diligence and research. It looks like it's just not for him.
I on the other hand am quite impressed. Just the concept and form factor are pure win. The fact that future Tf's will be dockable with the dock are sound. The pad meets my needs even though I knew going in that high profile would be a problem, i'm content with it in that I barely use it to watch movies. If I want to watch a flick, it's gonna be on the big screen and I have an Xbox and PS3 to serve my Netflix and Hulu needs.
I knew it wasn't perfect and it's being worked on, but like someone else stated, it's only gonna get better.
1. I also own a ipad, but if I want to add a movie,song or app....Itunes comes to mind..you have to be connected to a seperate device...a stand alone item the ipad is not.
2. You mentioned you where developing for the android system. GOLD MINE...DEVELOP for this new and fledgling market. I repeat....new and fledgling market. I remember the first ipad was 3.11 ios if I am not mistaken. And there was plenty of phone apps for the iphone..then the ipad..does this sound like history repeating it self?
3. You mentioned about movies...i remember for the ipad...there where no movie apps in the begging and had to hit that 2x icon in the screen of a iphone app on the ipad.
4. IMO the screen is better than the ipad...try reading in portrait with a ipad or even landscape. I am refering to the IPS.
5. You mention you where underwhelmed, of course you are...these are the first gen devices..Xoom, tab, iconia and transformer....qnd so on...as a developer you should now the first gen devices usually are not what we want or expect.
6. I can put a movie on my micro sd...or a song...or even a document..give that same sd card to a friend at work and we can share. Try that with a ipad.
7. Hardware is more fluid on the ipad..time will heal that....there are more selection for the android system.gpu wise..intel, nvidia, texas inturments, quallcom....etc
8. Last but not least...flash support...how many businesses use flash?....Alot...not every company can support different types of needed web sites...(flash, silverlight, etc..). I do give kudos to apple for single handly creating the tablet market as we know it..but just like as history again repeats itself...it will be a matter of time before androids will out number apple products. Flash support is huge...i know you don`t believe that...but you are so used to the ipad..you never noticed. Also, one more point but maybe it does not count..not everybody can afford a ipad...
I like the part where he said he hadn't figured out how to clear notifications so rather than look it up, he complained.
I had an iphone and dropped it for android over a year ago with absolutely no regrets. I contemplated ipad, but simulator the iPhone, i wanted a stand alone device and no iTunes. I rooted my phone and then installed a custom rom and downloaded music all while riding the train with no computer. Just did the same for the tablet sitting on my couch.
I think the only way i could show more lovefor android is to get a little green guy tattoo. There'san idea.... (pauses working netflix to hot swap memory card for music and googles tattoo parlor locations).
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App
PS- i streamed music and movies over my network first thing out of the box with the preinstalled app.
No love for Apple fan boys who would rather flame than get their facts straight before complaining.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App
jgermuga said:
I picked up this tablet mainly to play around with app development, but I must say, I am seriously underwhelmed. No Netflix, no skype video, can't get my DISH sling player to work on it, my digital copy movies won't even load, other movies which I have burned are choppy, seems evey time you jump back to a list (app store, settings uninstall, etc) you get put at the top of the list instead of where you left off, no native network sharing support, the micro sd is not hot swapable, many of the aps in the app store are hlf baked, haven't figured out how to do a mass clear of notifications (and this is a much applauded feature, where is the stinking "clear all"), the browser zoom is kind of quirky, and when I clicked the email link to reset my password for the XDA site here, it went into this wierd hypnotic flickering fit and I had to kill the browser session
...yada, yada, yada
Seriously, I don't know how anyone can even begin to copare this to the ipad (1 or 2), for all of the Apple bashing I have seen, all I have to say is "It just works". If I bought this to actually use in place of what I do with my IPad, and not to learn and try my hand at Android development, it would be on it's way back to the store right now or listed on eBay.
Even though it is only an iPad 1, it is HANDS DOWN WAAAAYYYYY BETTER. Steve can rest assured, even at this point in the game, if this is what the competition hads to offer, the iPad's future is quite secure. I mean, 5 minutes with Garage Band on the iPad and you realize it is like comparing a BMW to a Chevy Comaro. Yes the Camaro may look cool, but it is not nearly the same level of refinement and quality.
As it stands right now, I would classify the transformer as a novelty at best. Great idea having the ability to dock it to a keyboard, but I so wish they had used this concept on the ep121 (which I also own) as originally teased in the press kits as it would have truly provide a best in class device that could cross between a work horse and media/gaming device.
I really wanted to like this too. So sad, as the hardware and form factor are really quite nice.
Perhaps it may yet mature, but I see a lot of iffy post on Tegra 2 supporting DRM or MP4 support which allows me to play any of the movies in my video library.
But hey, it'll play flash content. Whooptedo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Netflix is true, but it's coming. It only works with a several devices (officially) and Netflix is working on adding more devices as I type this.
No Skype video. True. That isn't the tablets fault. Blame Skype.
Not familiar with DISH slingplayer, but to be honest, DISH sucks. HBO Go and Showtime Go work with some cable providers.
Honeycomb can play low profile encoded HD movies. You would know this if you looked into it before buying the tablet.
SD card is hot swappable. Does the iPad even have an SD card slot (without having to pay $30+ for some adapter)?
It's obvious you're sold on the iPad. So why in the hell did you buy an Android tablet? Just to bash it on fan forums?
I have no issues with the useability of my Asus Transformer which will only get better with time. Have fun with your limited and regulated iPad.
Netflix works with a minor tweak and why is no skype a hang up with many other options, like google chat or tango?
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App
seshmaru said:
First of all the SD card is hot swappable.
Second of all, I own an iPad 2 and yes it's more buggy but it's a lot more functional. The iPad is nice and all but iOS is NOT a tablet OS. Honeycomb is. Dvd rips should play fine with moboplayer. HD videos play smooth after encoding with handbrake, keyboard is amazing and I have had no browser trouble.
One thing is for sure I wouldn't suggest the transformer to technologically impaired people ( like yourself), just like I wouldn't recommend any android device for them. If you want simplicity the iPad is nice, it does what you probably want to do smooth and easy. But if I want to type up an email or take notes or do anything related to content creation and not just consumption, I'll pick the transformer any day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cmon, I have been in the IT field for over 15 years. I am a died in the wool early adopter and was using a smart phones and a tablet PCs long before they were hip and mainstream.
Technically challenged? No, I have a family and I am time challenged and although I enjoy tinkering, sometimes I just want something to work with having to waste a whole of energy on it.
Everybody keeps saying Honeycomb is a REAL OS, so exactly what does that mean to 90% of the users out there? I have owned a tablet computer for over 6 years now (started with the motion computing products) and unless I am taking notes (with a stylis I might add), browsing the internet, reading an ebook or watching a movie I am going to want a keyboard. But along with that keyboard, I want real integration with all of my work stuff. Like for instance, running Eclipse, Toad, .Net, Oracle, SQL Server (etc, etc) or any number of other deveploment tools? Therfore, to me a real OS still means UNIX, OSX or Windows. iOs AND Honeyomb are not.
I am not here just to bash, I am here to offer some levity to others who may read this forum and get the impression the transformer (and I should really be saying Honeycomb and/or the Tegra 2 platform) is omething that it is not. To be fair, it has some pretty serious limitations (as does the iPad) and in my opinion, it has not still yet reached maturity for broad market adoption. Having heard all the buzz about Android and how well it has done in the phone arena, I did truly expect a bit more. And they way the Xoom and Galaxy tabs are being marketed, it seems they are trying to hook the mass market, and I think many people will be disappointed.
Perhaps some people will find a way to get work done with a Honeycomb machine. I still see it as an entertaimnet piece first and foremost, and in that context, the iPad does a better job with less hassle.
Me? I am going to break out my ep121 and wince when I have to go running for the power cord after 3 hours.
Regarding video playback, I have over 100 movies whcih have already been ripped, and while most of them do play, they are choppy. Figuring my hourly consulting rate and what it would take for me to ttranscode all of them, I could buy a couple iPads. It's jsut not worth it.
I guess I am also a bit disappointed that the transformer has so much potential (great display, decent sound in stereo no less, good price, great form factor (albeit with the keyboard dock that is still near impossible to buy), low weight, great battery life, so all in all I'd love to have it be my amainstay machine, but realistically, it's going to sit on the shelf still most of the time as a testing platform while I lug around my ep121.
And to correct something I said earlier, yes I suppose the SD card is hot swapable, but you need to unmount it before removing it from it's slot. I got used to being able to just unplug it as you can with Windows 7.
And please, this is a computer when all is said and done. No need to insinute I am "impaired". Why people get so worked up about what is better then this that or the other thing is as baffling to me as the sports fanatics who get in fist fights when someone badmouths their team. I am offering an opinion for others to consider.
jappetta99 said:
PS- i streamed music and movies over my network first thing out of the box with the preinstalled app.
No love for Apple fan boys who would rather flame than get their facts straight before complaining.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MM, yea. I have hundereds of digicam movies as well as feature flicks. On that preinstalled app, they all get thrown into the same list. Can I search or sort that list, ahh no.
On top of that, all of the feature films are on the same NAS and they don't show up. Why? No clue. Porbably has something to do with the encode settings not being supported. And those that do show give me a "fail to load" when I click on them. Why? Again, no clue.
What was that you said about facts? I am not flaiming, these are facts.
And because I own an Apple product I am a fan boy? Is this a fact? My household is mostly microsoft and it is my preferred OS above both Apple and Android.
jgermuga said:
Cmon, I have been in the IT field for over 15 years. I am a died in the wool early adopter and was using a smart phones and a tablet PCs long before they were hip and mainstream.
Technically challenged? No, I have a family and I am time challenged and although I enjoy tinkering, sometimes I just want something to work with having to waste a whole of energy on it.
Everybody keeps saying Honeycomb is a REAL OS, so exactly what does that mean to 90% of the users out there? I have owned a tablet computer for over 6 years now (started with the motion computing products) and unless I am taking notes (with a stylis I might add), browsing the internet, reading an ebook or watching a movie I am going to want a keyboard. But along with that keyboard, I want real integration with all of my work stuff. Like for instance, running Eclipse, Toad, .Net, Oracle, SQL Server (etc, etc) or any number of other deveploment tools? Therfore, to me a real OS still means UNIX, OSX or Windows. iOs AND Honeyomb are not.
I am not here just to bash, I am here to offer some levity to others who may read this forum and get the impression the transformer (and I should really be saying Honeycomb and/or the Tegra 2 platform) is omething that it is not. To be fair, it has some pretty serious limitations (as does the iPad) and in my opinion, it has not still yet reached maturity for broad market adoption. Having heard all the buzz about Android and how well it has done in the phone arena, I did truly expect a bit more. And they way the Xoom and Galaxy tabs are being marketed, it seems they are trying to hook the mass market, and I think many people will be disappointed.
Perhaps some people will find a way to get work done with a Honeycomb machine. I still see it as an entertaimnet piece first and foremost, and in that context, the iPad does a better job with less hassle.
Me? I am going to break out my ep121 and wince when I have to go running for the power cord after 3 hours.
Regarding video playback, I have over 100 movies whcih have already been ripped, and while most of them do play, they are choppy. Figuring my hourly consulting rate and what it would take for me to ttranscode all of them, I could buy a couple iPads. It's jsut not worth it.
I guess I am also a bit disappointed that the transformer has so much potential (great display, decent sound in stereo no less, good price, great form factor (albeit with the keyboard dock that is still near impossible to buy), low weight, great battery life, so all in all I'd love to have it be my amainstay machine, but realistically, it's going to sit on the shelf still most of the time as a testing platform while I lug around my ep121.
And to correct something I said earlier, yes I suppose the SD card is hot swapable, but you need to unmount it before removing it from it's slot. I got used to being able to just unplug it as you can with Windows 7.
And please, this is a computer when all is said and done. No need to insinute I am "impaired". Why people get so worked up about what is better then this that or the other thing is as baffling to me as the sports fanatics who get in fist fights when someone badmouths their team. I am offering an opinion for others to consider.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You love the iPad. Go return the Asus and enjoy your iPad. Done deal, you eat your burger, I eat my sandwich. No need to convince people in the ANDROID forum to despise an Android device. We know the pros and cons of iOS and Android/iPad and Android devices. Did you expect love coming to XDA and saying the iPad is better? Cmon. People here are users who like the openness of Android and Android devices.
By the way, being in the IT field doesn't mean much.
jgermuga said:
And to correct something I said earlier, yes I suppose the SD card is hot swapable, but you need to unmount it before removing it from it's slot. I got used to being able to just unplug it as you can with Windows 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to correct your correction, you don't *have* to dismount it to swap it. Since it's FAT32 formatted, you can just pull it out an insert another without issue.
Not bashing your post though - there's nothing wrong with having an opinion. Personally I think the iPad is a fine device, but it is not for me - and I own 3 Macs! It's also fair to say that Honeycomb has all the hallmarks of a beta level product, rather than a finished product. However, it's also fair to say that when the iPad was launched it do so with iOS 3.2, which really wasn't optimized for tablets at all.
Most tablets are generally for content consumption, not content creation - and I include the iPad in that mix. However, the TFs keyboard does lend itself well to content creation though it's fair to say that the apps are not there yet.
One thing it is excellent for is remote server access via VPN and RDP, which is my primary usage outside of content consumption.
It's horse for courses though - in my opinion, the EP121 is a total waste of time as a device as it is just a keyboardless PC rather than a tablet with a poor battery life.
It's bigger and heavier than my Macbook Air with a poor battery life, and I would have absolutely no use for one for those reasons - your mileage clearly varies of course, so if it works for you all well and good!
There's far too much unreasoned iOS bashing on these boards - there are plenty of reasons not to like Apple and its products, but it does produce good quality, strong products, and the iPad/iPhone is no exception to this.
My mum wanted a tablet just this week, and my advice to her was iPad all the way, even though I wouldn't have one myself. My wife wanted a new phone a few weeks ago, and now she has an iPhone 4 which she absolutely adores.
Regards,
Dave
jgermuga said:
Cmon, I have been in the IT field for over 15 years. I am a died in the wool early adopter and was using a smart phones and a tablet PCs long before they were hip and mainstream.
Technically challenged? No, I have a family and I am time challenged and although I enjoy tinkering, sometimes I just want something to work with having to waste a whole of energy on it.
Everybody keeps saying Honeycomb is a REAL OS, so exactly what does that mean to 90% of the users out there? I have owned a tablet computer for over 6 years now (started with the motion computing products) and unless I am taking notes (with a stylis I might add), browsing the internet, reading an ebook or watching a movie I am going to want a keyboard. But along with that keyboard, I want real integration with all of my work stuff. Like for instance, running Eclipse, Toad, .Net, Oracle, SQL Server (etc, etc) or any number of other deveploment tools? Therfore, to me a real OS still means UNIX, OSX or Windows. iOs AND Honeyomb are not.
I am not here just to bash, I am here to offer some levity to others who may read this forum and get the impression the transformer (and I should really be saying Honeycomb and/or the Tegra 2 platform) is omething that it is not. To be fair, it has some pretty serious limitations (as does the iPad) and in my opinion, it has not still yet reached maturity for broad market adoption. Having heard all the buzz about Android and how well it has done in the phone arena, I did truly expect a bit more. And they way the Xoom and Galaxy tabs are being marketed, it seems they are trying to hook the mass market, and I think many people will be disappointed.
Perhaps some people will find a way to get work done with a Honeycomb machine. I still see it as an entertaimnet piece first and foremost, and in that context, the iPad does a better job with less hassle.
Me? I am going to break out my ep121 and wince when I have to go running for the power cord after 3 hours.
Regarding video playback, I have over 100 movies whcih have already been ripped, and while most of them do play, they are choppy. Figuring my hourly consulting rate and what it would take for me to ttranscode all of them, I could buy a couple iPads. It's jsut not worth it.
I guess I am also a bit disappointed that the transformer has so much potential (great display, decent sound in stereo no less, good price, great form factor (albeit with the keyboard dock that is still near impossible to buy), low weight, great battery life, so all in all I'd love to have it be my amainstay machine, but realistically, it's going to sit on the shelf still most of the time as a testing platform while I lug around my ep121.
And to correct something I said earlier, yes I suppose the SD card is hot swapable, but you need to unmount it before removing it from it's slot. I got used to being able to just unplug it as you can with Windows 7.
And please, this is a computer when all is said and done. No need to insinute I am "impaired". Why people get so worked up about what is better then this that or the other thing is as baffling to me as the sports fanatics who get in fist fights when someone badmouths their team. I am offering an opinion for others to consider.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems like you picked the few things that the TF doesn't excel at and singled them out in an attempt to downgrade the device.
The Ipad is not perfect and neither is the TF. Same goes for ios and honeycomb.
Which device is better? Who cares, they're both great and have their pros and cons (which you should of known before hand unless you just shell out money for new devices without doing research) to each his own.
P.S from my experience, a lot of people love the ipad but the majority of people that I know (about 6 or 7 personally) who own both a TF and Ipad 2 prefer the TF over the ipad in most scenarios other than sitting on the toilet and playing plants vs zombies.
Once again, to each his own. People should have enough sense to weigh the pros and cons before purchasing something, let them decide if a device is right for them or not.
jgermuga said:
Seriously, I don't know how anyone can even begin to copare this to the ipad (1 or 2),
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Do me a favor. Turn on your ipad and without touching a single icon, tell me what information is at your fingertips. The weather? The latest news on the war in iraq? Your stock prices? What your friends are up to? What time your dentist appointment is?
Not going to happen...
I just wanted to bring up a few thoughts I've had about the upcoming OUYA console, and see what you guys think.
1. I still don't really understand how/why all of this couldn't have been handled by simply creating a GoogleTV-specific OUYA app...?
2. Besides the OUYA's dedicated game-centric market, and their custom controller, what does one really gain that is not already available in the Android ecosystem?
3. How do they plan to prevent their entire custom OS (Or their individual apps) from being ported to other Tegra-based GTV devices in the future? Or, given their outright support for hacking the device, would they even care?
4. And then there's this: Google reportedly making a Game Center for Android
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Google-reportedly-making-a-Game-Center-for-Android_id30026/
If one was to pair the above (hypothetical) "GTV Game Center" app with a Google-branded "Nexus Controller," wouldn't the entire OUYA become pointless? Would you prefer an app/service that is fully integrated with the entire Google ecosystem, rather than a custom version of the OS and functionality that are outside of (or weakly tied to) said ecosystem?
That said, I still plan to buy a OUYA, but only because I'm a sucker for shiny new toys -- especially of the Android variety! :laugh:
What are your thoughts? Am I "over thinking" this console? Do you think it will be made pointless by an evolution of the GTV?
I'm just looking for friendly debate, so please keep it civil...
150+ views and nobody has any thoughts on these questions? lol...ok, fair enough, was worth a shot.
I think best case scenario they can hope for is becoming a niche platform for android-nerds. Why? Because there is no market for such device. Casual gamers are quite happy with what they get from smartphone industry and PC-facebook-gaming stuff. More hard-core gamers will want bleeding-edge graphics and high-end performance. Without any real GPU on board OUYA will just stay behind. From the software standpoint, Android is a great system but, with sandboxing and multitasking environment, it is not very well prepared for running performance-demanding games.
But still.. I think I will buy it.
atoktoto said:
I think best case scenario they can hope for is becoming a niche platform for android-nerds. Why? Because there is no market for such device. Casual gamers are quite happy with what they get from smartphone industry and PC-facebook-gaming stuff. More hard-core gamers will want bleeding-edge graphics and high-end performance. Without any real GPU on board OUYA will just stay behind. From the software standpoint, Android is a great system but, with sandboxing and multitasking environment, it is not very well prepared for running performance-demanding games.
But still.. I think I will buy it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without a real gpu? The ouya has a twelve core tegra 3 gpu with quad core cpu, one of the best you can get, how is that not a real gpu?
It is not aimed at hardcore gamers as it can't beat a ps3 but it can attract casual gamers and even general gamers.
It can handle all the current top android games at max quality settings which is just fine for a lot of people and the ouya can be a multimedia device too so should be fun and useful too.
By your reasoning about casual gaming the wii shouldn't have sold well but it did, I don't think it will be a mass hit but it will do ok at least.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
I hope someone releases an overclocked kernal for it, so we can get some real power
..
mistermentality said:
Without a real gpu? The ouya has a twelve core tegra 3 gpu with quad core cpu, one of the best you can get, how is that not a real gpu?
It is not aimed at hardcore gamers as it can't beat a ps3 but it can attract casual gamers and even general gamers.
It can handle all the current top android games at max quality settings which is just fine for a lot of people and the ouya can be a multimedia device too so should be fun and useful too.
By your reasoning about casual gaming the wii shouldn't have sold well but it did, I don't think it will be a mass hit but it will do ok at least.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you are referring to mobile device gpus/cpus because they are nowhere near the best you can get in desktops or even laptops or that matter.
It seems interesting and I do want to have one but I kinda want to see what games it gets first before buying, if it doesn't have anything that'll interest me then it would be a waste.
Halmo said:
I hope you are referring to mobile device gpus/cpus because they are nowhere near the best you can get in desktops or even laptops or that matter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course, I was referring to mobile gpu's and pointing out that this could easily handle the highest quality android games.
I should have been more clear on that but thought as the discussion was about android that people would realise I meant gpu's that android works with.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
I think it all really has to depend on the support of developers that are willing to make develop for that hardware. But i understand where you are coming from.
mistermentality said:
Of course, I was referring to mobile gpu's and pointing out that this could easily handle the highest quality android games.
I should have been more clear on that but thought as the discussion was about android that people would realise I meant gpu's that android works with.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But won't the Ouya be trying to compete with the likes of other home consoles? Because if it is, it is considerably underpowered compared to them.
First, I was an earlier KS backer.
Those who have order one by now, release this is not meant necessarily to complete with an Xbox or Playstation. They're going after a slightly different gaming market.
The problem I see with Ouya is that it can be a bit of redundant machine. What does it do that can't be done with a decent smartphone? You may need a rooted phone, but one can hook up a controller, connect to a TV. It's more the mobile game developers adding in controller support. That said, talk about annoying trying up your phone to play games. Having to hook up the phone to the TV every time.
But I think it could be a nice entry point for small game developers to get into the livingroom. New developers to try to get into the market without going broke or closing the doors if a game fails. Allow gamer to fiddle with their consoles.
On the positive side, if the Wii can find success, maybe there is a room for something like the Ouya too. The Wii showed, if it's fun to play, a cheap machine can make it.
---------- Post added at 04:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 AM ----------
Plus with announcement it's going to be sold a Target, Bestbuy, Amazon and a few other stores, will help with getting numbers sold, which can help bring some of the bigger game developers to the platform.
I'm excited for the OUYA, but not for reasons they'd probably like. I'll be getting one later down the line, once someone slaps new firmware out there for it. I really don't like the idea of them trying to push their own version of a marketplace and basically building on top of Android for their own purposes. I get it, but I don't feel it's necessary and splintering Android further than it already is needs to stop.
In short, my idea is to see how this device would fare for an AIO media center. It'll hook up to a TV just fine already, it runs Android, and it has its own controller! So once it's running stock (and by stock I inherently mean CM), I'll have a media center PC essentially ready to go- I've got everything already hosted on a NAS so as long as it's on the network, bam.
I checked that link for basically Google's version of a game center, but that date was about a year ago- I think Google's a bit busy with KLP and I/O coming up. Then again they're a secretive company, but I don't think a game device could top up there with their big bombs they'll be dropping - that being Glass and KLP.
edit: Oh, and this may go towards a second device or supercede my media center plans- but I've been toying with the idea of Android as a desktop ever since 4.2 came out with multiple users. I think with OUYA it could be manageably done, or at least to the point where it could be a fun little hobby project to see what limitations I run into.
I don't think it can keep up with the graphics needed...i mean they might as well have marketed a universal market controller with the ability to miracast your phone. the device has Tegra 3, but Tegra 4 just came out. MY real question is why buy a phone and then buy another device to play games on when it has same specs...i'd rather just use my phone and stream it (with controller)...
other devices like ps3/xbox/ps4 are actually powerful. Unless a really cheap device like this is backed by nice hardware like Nvidia's Grid. It really isn't too useful. of course, this is all in my opinion.
Kinda reminds me of Ubuntu phone's concept. However, the phone's specs aren't up to do everything you'd want to so i guess the Ubuntu phone/desktop thing could be handy for average users that don't need super powerful pcs.
mistermentality said:
Of course, I was referring to mobile gpu's and pointing out that this could easily handle the highest quality android games.
I should have been more clear on that but thought as the discussion was about android that people would realise I meant gpu's that android works with.
Dave
( http://www.google.com/producer/editions/CAownKXmAQ/bigfatuniverse )
Sent from my LG P920 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact is is that they are calling it a gaming colsole. Well its not. Not without a proper gpu. 12 cores is nothing. My Radeon 7770 in my computer has over 400 cores. Also the one in the xbox has over 100 cores I think. It is not a gaming console without a powerful gpu. Its just an android emulator. Thats it.
AFAinHD said:
The fact is is that they are calling it a gaming colsole. Well its not. Not without a proper gpu. 12 cores is nothing. My Radeon 7770 in my computer has over 400 cores. Also the one in the xbox has over 100 cores I think. It is not a gaming console without a powerful gpu. Its just an android emulator. Thats it.
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Click to collapse
Eh, now we're getting into the territory of whether or not graphics make a "game." While I'll take up my torches against Farmville any day, I've delve my fair share into text-only based games (to really go on the opposite spectrum of "graphics" here).
nessonic said:
Eh, now we're getting into the territory of whether or not graphics make a "game." While I'll take up my torches against Farmville any day, I've delve my fair share into text-only based games (to really go on the opposite spectrum of "graphics" here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, so the Ouya will be competing with the likes of the Atari Flashback? That makes sense.
And with people making snide, smartass comments with no real backing (or point beyond insulting a product) behind them... This conversation just lost any point and validity.
When I first saw the Ouya and all the info I admit was very happy yet very sad, sad indeed... happy for thoose pioneers and innovation at finest, daredevils! but the device is doomed to die from day 1, why? here:
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Smallest game console in the world, doesnt need AC (draws from internal battery), that "stick" plugs directly into the HDMI, yeah, THATS the console, closer specs compared to ouya, second version may kill the ouya (in terms of graphics), also a lot more portable plus you can use the controller with any bluetooth device (pc, tablet, phone). Did I mention cheap? ($100 or so dollars)
Now to the not so expensive side ($150 or so US dollars), again ouya killer... :crying:
Emulates from nes*, Snes, Gba and neogeo to PSone* and N64*, PSP emulator is getting better and better. PSone.. yeah, you got 2 analog sticks, d-pad, 4 frontal buttons, select and start buttons in the side, R1, L1, R2 and L2 buttons! yeah 4 freaking shoulder buttons!!! holy sh!t ( reason I'm buying this), stereo speakers, and HDMI! gaming on the big screen!! 1080p video playback, and mapping buttons (this means you can map the fisical buttons to the on-screen ones, so you can play ANY game on the market... maybe not angry birds... but you don't want this device to play anrgy birds :silly.
These JXD guys had done a lot of tablets, gaming tablets and psp wannabes, so their expertise paid with this one.
*emulators included
Lastly both of them already on sale!
I already ordered mine :victory: but I live in Mexico... so will take some time but yeah, ouya is doomed.
Official site with specs and more pictures
Bought it here
---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------
dj_techwiz said:
I think it all really has to depend on the support of developers that are willing to make develop for that hardware. But i understand where you are coming from.
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Click to collapse
Indeed, its no use if developers dont add support for the controller, and 70% games in android use touch screen, so, bumpy road ahead.
dibblebill said:
And with people making snide, smartass comments with no real backing (or point beyond insulting a product) behind them... This conversation just lost any point and validity.
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Click to collapse
Well, if you're honestly going to bring up 'games aren't about the graphics' when we're talking about a home console (throwing in a comment about text-based games) meant to compete with the Xbox 360, PS3 and Wii U, then yes - you're going to met with snide comments. The GPU's capabilities translate more to being actually able to play the games, and that has little to do with the visual representation.
The Ouya won't be a worthwhile investment at its price. Honestly, it won't. The above two options, especially the latter Wii U gamepad rip off, seem to be a much better choice.
Valve's 'Steam Box' and other equivalents will likely catch the audience the Ouya is trying to get.
I figured nobody else had started this thread already, and it'll be a great starting point for discussions of Ouya up against it's brothers-in-Androids in your market. This is NOT an Ouya bashing thread, merely a compare and contrast between the newly flooding market of miniature Android powered devices.
Now, to begin, I would like to first point out that I do own multiple Android powered devices, but none which are mentioned here in this post, so please don't cry "fanboy" as I have 0 allegiance to anything except Android. And yes, I'm kicking myself for not getting in on the Ouya kickstarter (even though I had multiple chances).
Ouya is poised to become the next big multimedia console to enter the consumer market and home, and it's got quite the uphill battle ahead of it. There's already plenty of small low-powered Android devices either announced or already released which fill one niche or another. While Ouya markets itself primarily as a game console, the fact that it runs Android means that it's got to compete with every other low-powered Android device which feasibly can accomplish everything the Ouya can. I'll expound on this further.
Ouya vs ...:
Google TV. Starting at the same price point for the VIZIO Co-Star, this device provides more than enough power in a small frame to power your perfect TV setup, providing internet access as well as local network streaming for your entertainment needs. Now, while the Google TV platform is marketed as a STB, it's still a competitor in mild/moderate gaming as well as web content accessibility. With the fact that Google TV is synonymous with "everything Google, now on your TV," Ouya's name will lend to confusion as to what it really is for the mass market in the beginning, hurting intial adoption rates outside the Android community.
Win: Google TV, brand recognition.
Raspberry Pi. Starting at a paltry $25, this little low-powered Android stock device is actually quite a surprising little power house. All manner of network appliances have been developed around this hardware, and with the drivers for most of the hardware being provided for other flavors of Linux, it's range and scope is expanding fast. While again, only techies will really know what the Pi is, it's heavily marketed (ignore the fact i'm using this term loosely) towards Android and computing enthusiasts as a replacement for all those things that are big, hot, and noisy. This little gem has already received more builds of Linux than I can count, a port of XBMC that can easily handle streaming 1080p without a sweat, it really comes down to accessibility. In the long run the Ouya is pricier, and for those just looking for a cheap XBMC device, you can't beat the Pi at $25. That and it's kawaii-small.
Win: Raspberry Pi, price point.
nVIDIA Shield. In the closest thing to apples to apples comparison of devices based on how they're marketed, we have the nVIDIA Shield, the Tegra 4 powered nVIDIA Android handheld gaming console (announced). This little gamer's wet dream is a powerhouse in your hands, and throw in the ability to play your PC games on the handheld thanks to special integration with the nVIDIA graphics processor on your PC, and you've got an almost universal system to enjoy anywhere, anytime. Again, being that it's Android, don't expect that it won't be without it's ports of XBMC and many many other wonderful pieces of software to further enhance the cost-to-value ratio of this handheld. Being that this is the closest competitor to the Ouya, it's worth noting that there are a few caveats to the Shield which bring it down. As of this writing, the "Play PC" feature is heavily Steam oriented (not a bad thing), will likely require Multi-Band Wireless N (MIMO) (not prevalent, likely have to buy one), and the biggest bullet to chew on, a whopping GeForce GTX 650 (cheapest on Newegg as of writing $110 new) in order to enjoy this device to it's fullest. While the Ouya lacks this functionality to begin with, it brings it down, but this feature feels more like a power-play by nVIDIA than something that could end up becoming mainstream.
Win: Ouya, will integrate with everything you already have provided tools and/or apps are provided to link it, no need to upgrade everything around it to make full use of it.
Mods: Sorry for the perceived dupe topic, I was at work getting calls every 15 minutes interrupting me for upwards half an hour after I started writing this just after lunch.
Reply
I myself was wondering how the similar, android-based GameStick would fair against the Ouya. It has similar characteristics and from what I have seen will be released to those who pre-ordered around the same time as those who backed the Ouya.
Although I have seen a few comments about the Ouya and GameStick as being (or not being) competitive, I would like to here what your guys' thoughts are on the topic.
GameStick was also first on kickstarter, check it out:
(Read the updates as well, there were some major ones!)
->GameStick Page<-
Raspberry Pi is an educational device,and can't handle anything worthwhile.
When i was doing the backing for Ouya, i wasn't really aware of Gamestick project itself. Now had a check on the video and both the guys looks same in terms of strategy and Games, even the game store !
But i assume the Ouya hardware is bit better than the Gamestick one.
I could feel only one challenge they going to face - GAMES !! and more GAMES!
But we all know - we all will end up in flashing a custom mod into this thing :laugh:
Feelings about the OUYA
I just hope that the OUYA is all it has been hyped up to be. I don't want to see a box with some Allwinner A10, a gig of RAM, and a modded version of the Google Play store. I want to see a full on Android gaming console with dev support and proprietary games and add-ons. I really hope that when the OUYA gets dropped, it has a major impact on the console market.
BasedChefJoeyB said:
I just hope that the OUYA is all it has been hyped up to be. I don't want to see a box with some Allwinner A10, a gig of RAM, and a modded version of the Google Play store. I want to see a full on Android gaming console with dev support and proprietary games and add-ons. I really hope that when the OUYA gets dropped, it has a major impact on the console market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't have the power or support to make an impact on the realm that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo occupy.
cmdrdredd said:
It doesn't have the power or support to make an impact on the realm that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo occupy.
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Click to collapse
Because obviously we all want to play call of duty 14 or whatever braindead sequel is served up on the pop machines (you know, just like pop music, no creativity and sold to the herd of sheeps)
I look forward to some real creativity in gaming which hopefully the indie dev will be able to bring to Ouya
Sent from my IceColdJelly HOX via Tapatalk 2
Raverbunny said:
Because obviously we all want to play call of duty 14 or whatever braindead sequel is served up on the pop machines (you know, just like pop music, no creativity and sold to the herd of sheeps)
I look forward to some real creativity in gaming which hopefully the indie dev will be able to bring to Ouya
Sent from my IceColdJelly HOX via Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to see the Ouya find it's niche as the premier indie console, gawd knows none of the big three (M$, Sony, Nintendo) have really welcomed the indie devs. Check into the "Indie Game" movie, and you'll see what I'm saying. If Ouya welcomes the indie developers (which it sounds like they are), then they'll have plenty of backing from new blood which will eventually draw the bigger names to capitalize on a market they can make more in.
BasedChefJoeyB said:
I just hope that the OUYA is all it has been hyped up to be. I don't want to see a box with some Allwinner A10, a gig of RAM, and a modded version of the Google Play store. I want to see a full on Android gaming console with dev support and proprietary games and add-ons. I really hope that when the OUYA gets dropped, it has a major impact on the console market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NVIDIA Tegra3 quad-core processor
1GB RAM
8GB of internal flash storage, expandable via USB 2.0 port
Up to 1080p HD (via HDMI)
5.1 surround sound
WiFi 802.11 b/g/n, and Ethernet port
Bluetooth
Micro USB port
Wireless Bluetooth controller with standard game controls and touchpad
the web says this..
I'm not impressed by the examples. Google TV is Google's take on Roku, Boxee Box, and Apple TV. Not a game console.
My Raspberry Pi, while freaking cool, is most definitely NOT a gaming console. It doesn't have the power, the games, or any of that. It's not even a computer, it's a little wonder box that I put in the middle of projects.
The Shield is pretty cool I'd say, and yes, it's a gaming console. But I keep my Nexus 4 on hand always and I like to keep my pockets lightweight and I don't need one extra gadget or pocket filled. And so I don't understand why people say Shield will have a better fate than the OUYA. In the end it's just an Android with an excellent processor and a fancy controller slapped on it. If it's more than $250 there's no way I'll buy it. I don't care about the PC game streaming. It's a completely different social segment from what I can tell. And most of you, I can guarantee, don't even have the specified graphics setup to begin with.
This is a TV console for $100. OUYAs only professional opposors at the moment: Wii Mini ($100), and gamestick.tv ($80)... I suppose Xbox 360 has a few options, but they will end up costing you at least $200 to enjoy without games from my person experience.
And maybe, a budget Xbox quite soon. But you and me both know that the Xbox "720" and/or PS4 will be very expensive, maybe $400 or so. And the Wii U is already pricey, low functionality and low on the games. And Nintendo is paying the price.
Google TV, Roku, Boxee Box, Apple TV are Streaming Boxes, which all somehow cost as much as this fully featured box. I enjoy my Roku but it can barely get Angry Birds right... Angry Birds.
Microsoft and Sonys latest consoles as well as the new Valve segment are most likely destined for the mid hundreds ($300-$550)
The Xperia Play was unfortunately DOA, and even the promising PS Vita and nVidia Shield are absolutely positively handheld systems, not TV consoles.
So we have a chance of dominating this side of the market if we can beat the experience of other $100 gadgets that hook up to your TV, feature, function, and marketing wise.
Cynagen said:
I figured nobody else had started this thread already, and it'll be a great starting point for discussions of Ouya up against it's brothers-in-Androids in your market. This is NOT an Ouya bashing thread, merely a compare and contrast between the newly flooding market of miniature Android powered devices.
Now, to begin, I would like to first point out that I do own multiple Android powered devices, but none which are mentioned here in this post, so please don't cry "fanboy" as I have 0 allegiance to anything except Android. And yes, I'm kicking myself for not getting in on the Ouya kickstarter (even though I had multiple chances).
Ouya is poised to become the next big multimedia console to enter the consumer market and home, and it's got quite the uphill battle ahead of it. There's already plenty of small low-powered Android devices either announced or already released which fill one niche or another. While Ouya markets itself primarily as a game console, the fact that it runs Android means that it's got to compete with every other low-powered Android device which feasibly can accomplish everything the Ouya can. I'll expound on this further.
Ouya vs ...:
Google TV. Starting at the same price point for the VIZIO Co-Star, this device provides more than enough power in a small frame to power your perfect TV setup, providing internet access as well as local network streaming for your entertainment needs. Now, while the Google TV platform is marketed as a STB, it's still a competitor in mild/moderate gaming as well as web content accessibility. With the fact that Google TV is synonymous with "everything Google, now on your TV," Ouya's name will lend to confusion as to what it really is for the mass market in the beginning, hurting intial adoption rates outside the Android community.
Win: Google TV, brand recognition.
Raspberry Pi. Starting at a paltry $25, this little low-powered Android stock device is actually quite a surprising little power house. All manner of network appliances have been developed around this hardware, and with the drivers for most of the hardware being provided for other flavors of Linux, it's range and scope is expanding fast. While again, only techies will really know what the Pi is, it's heavily marketed (ignore the fact i'm using this term loosely) towards Android and computing enthusiasts as a replacement for all those things that are big, hot, and noisy. This little gem has already received more builds of Linux than I can count, a port of XBMC that can easily handle streaming 1080p without a sweat, it really comes down to accessibility. In the long run the Ouya is pricier, and for those just looking for a cheap XBMC device, you can't beat the Pi at $25. That and it's kawaii-small.
Win: Raspberry Pi, price point.
nVIDIA Shield. In the closest thing to apples to apples comparison of devices based on how they're marketed, we have the nVIDIA Shield, the Tegra 4 powered nVIDIA Android handheld gaming console (announced). This little gamer's wet dream is a powerhouse in your hands, and throw in the ability to play your PC games on the handheld thanks to special integration with the nVIDIA graphics processor on your PC, and you've got an almost universal system to enjoy anywhere, anytime. Again, being that it's Android, don't expect that it won't be without it's ports of XBMC and many many other wonderful pieces of software to further enhance the cost-to-value ratio of this handheld. Being that this is the closest competitor to the Ouya, it's worth noting that there are a few caveats to the Shield which bring it down. As of this writing, the "Play PC" feature is heavily Steam oriented (not a bad thing), will likely require Multi-Band Wireless N (MIMO) (not prevalent, likely have to buy one), and the biggest bullet to chew on, a whopping GeForce GTX 650 (cheapest on Newegg as of writing $110 new) in order to enjoy this device to it's fullest. While the Ouya lacks this functionality to begin with, it brings it down, but this feature feels more like a power-play by nVIDIA than something that could end up becoming mainstream.
Win: Ouya, will integrate with everything you already have provided tools and/or apps are provided to link it, no need to upgrade everything around it to make full use of it.
Mods: Sorry for the perceived dupe topic, I was at work getting calls every 15 minutes interrupting me for upwards half an hour after I started writing this just after lunch.
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You got it completely wrong. None of those are real competitors to the OUYA. Google TV is... hold your breath... TV. It has the ability to run games but that's neither its purpose nor its strength. Raspberry is an amazing low cost miracle. As one of the early adopters I can say that you won't spend 25$ (or whatever the price was back then) better. But comparing it to a Tegra3 device in terms of gaming is a joke, right? The SHIELD is intended for the hardcore gamers. Unlike the OUYA it can stream PC games, it's portable, has better hardware... and costs more. Those two will more likely benefit from each other than compete, because the OUYA will have the numbers and the SHIELD will have the raw power to make big developers look at Android more seriously.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
tkolev said:
You got it completely wrong. None of those are real competitors to the OUYA. Google TV is... hold your breath... TV. It has the ability to run games but that's neither its purpose nor its strength. Raspberry is an amazing low cost miracle. As one of the early adopters I can say that you won't spend 25$ (or whatever the price was back then) better. But comparing it to a Tegra3 device in terms of gaming is a joke, right? The SHIELD is intended for the hardcore gamers. Unlike the OUYA it can stream PC games, it's portable, has better hardware... and costs more. Those two will more likely benefit from each other than compete, because the OUYA will have the numbers and the SHIELD will have the raw power to make big developers look at Android more seriously.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
I never once said that these devices were in direct competition (only in the respect to they share Android space), just that based on what people know of each device, how they may compare them, and which ones would come out on top. Most of these devices are semi-interchange-able, but if you have simple needs (like XBMC), then there are better alternatives out there for you (in this case Pi). This was to highlight some of the strengths of Ouya's perceived competitors. The only real direct competitor is the SHIELD, which in it's own right is still a generation ahead, literally.
To be frank I just got my Pi and it's a pain in the butt, I am still periodically working on making the SD card perfect so the darn thing will boot. At the initial launch, the optimized Tegra 3 and 1GB RAM will blow the Pi's tech out of the water. And if we can push it to a second release we'll have a Tegra 4 SoC and most likely at least 2GB RAM.
I really think this OUYA project is going to benefit from Nvidias support. Let's be honest, Nvidia makes the best graphics tech in the PC market. The best. Really. They've been doing this for a very, very long time. And I think it's going to upstage the Qualcomm 800.
my Galaxy S3, with MHL hdmi connection, plus sixaxis bluetooth controller... bigger specs than an ouya and does exactly the same thing... no wait, it does more!
devnut said:
my Galaxy S3, with MHL hdmi connection, plus sixaxis bluetooth controller... bigger specs than an ouya and does exactly the same thing... no wait, it does more!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and wait... it costs 5 times more.
devnut said:
my Galaxy S3, with MHL hdmi connection, plus sixaxis bluetooth controller... bigger specs than an ouya and does exactly the same thing... no wait, it does more!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So your S3 core runs with 1,7ghz and never downclock.
Because the ouya has a powersupply and don´t need to save any batterie.
Also the android on ouya is cut down to a minimum of ressources to give the game more power.
It will only be a matter of time to have ouya games which will not work on any S3 or Note2 or other devices with tegra 3 or equal.
devnut said:
my Galaxy S3, with MHL hdmi connection, plus sixaxis bluetooth controller... bigger specs than an ouya and does exactly the same thing... no wait, it does more!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we better compare the respective categories based on the space they are in..
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
OOH-YAA :highfive: :good:
lartomar2002 said:
OOH-YAA :highfive: :good:
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{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Anyways, back on topic! If the Pi is as "Pi"tiful as everyone is claiming, then the biggest names the Ouya will have to deal with will be the Google TV (which has huge brand recognition), and the nVidia SHIELD (again, brand recognition, and better hardware). Ouya doesn't have to topple either of these platforms, each has their niche, but can easily be extended to include the extra functionality needed. The Google TV platform may not have the powerful graphics processor to keep up with demanding games, but for artsy 2d kids games, no problem. Why buy a new system (that you likely know nothing about), when you can just extend the capabilities of your already existing Google TV installation by rooting and working with that? SHIELD is more of a direct competitor as it's seeking the gaming market that's been woefully ignored in terms of mobility, and while the Ouya will likely be a better item for the simple fact that you're going to get some good mileage out of the platform for $100, it still has to compete with brand recognition, which is overall going to hurt the Ouya. The only people really aware of the Ouya are kickstarter backers, and the Android enthusiast community. There's been plenty of press, but I've dropped the name Ouya in conversation with some of my other tech-oriented friends and gotten blank stares which tells me that there's not enough marketing going out to inform the masses of the product. Word of mouth is great, especially in tech-oriented circles, but outside of that, they're falling short. In reality, this all boils down to Ouya vs their marketing department.
If you and your friends are like me everytime I visit a Walmart, Target or Amazon online the first place I visit is the electronics dept. So, come June they will definitely srart having exposer to the OUYA.
As the title states. We have been seeing just how incredible the new AI upscaling is on the newer 2019 models and I am wondering if we have any Developers here up for the challenge to bring this impressive feature to our original SHIELD TV models please? Below are just two of the reports on AI Upscaling.
Can it be done? Or is this impossible?
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/28/n...-android-tv-market-with-amazing-4k-upscaling/
https://youtu.be/kmqa3c-oiAk
This is truly the million dollar question. I'd root for to get this if necessary! LOL
taino211 said:
This is truly the million dollar question. I'd root for to get this if necessary! LOL
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Yes me too. Wait I'm already rooted, haha. But yes lets bump this thread every week as much as we can please just to keep the title of this thread visible. I have never seen such a feature like this before. I want this bad, almost bad enough to sell it and get the newer device, which I'm sure is Nvidia's intention, lol. Well I hope they bring it to the earlier devices because my SHIELD TV's Geekbench scores are higher than the new Shield PRO's, thanks to the overclock kernel. It should have no issues, and neither should all the stock devices.
Hope someone will do it because the new shield pro is horrible 16gb of internal storage and no hdd/ssd.
Maybe some developer can port the 2019 rom to work on older 2017,2015....
Yeah Nvidia was smoking crack when they designed the new Shields. If they weren't planning on upping the ram and storage sizes they should have at least left them the same. They have pretty much guaranteed that I won't be upgrading to a new one. My 2015 model is looking better and better as it ages, lol.
With that said, with the new 2019 model having better newer software features I find myself wondering if the 2015/2017 has become EOL for software updates.
Hello everybody, I asked the same question here.
wxy.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/shield-tv/9/325195/ai-upscaling-on-shield-2017-possible/
The answer is unfortunately no.
Well Nvidia wants to sell the new shield yes and that would be for me the only reason to buy.
I hope it is possible with a costum rome also with the 2015/2017 model.
Is AI upscaling a pure software thing or is it only possible with the new Tegra chip?
WK 85 said:
Hello everybody, I asked the same question here.
wxy.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/shield-tv/9/325195/ai-upscaling-on-shield-2017-possible/
The answer is unfortunately no.
Well Nvidia wants to sell the new shield yes and that would be for me the only reason to buy.
I hope it is possible with a costum rome also with the 2015/2017 model.
Is AI upscaling a pure software thing or is it only possible with the new Tegra chip?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its probably nothing more than a software thing considering it is using NVIDIA servers to use the power of Cloud computing to do the heavy lifting. This AI feature probably would work on even the weakest of devices, so long your internet latency is low enough. With that said we need more info about the feature before passing judgment.
SkOrPn said:
Its probably nothing more than a software thing considering it is using NVIDIA servers to use the power of Cloud computing to do the heavy lifting. This AI feature probably would work on even the weakest of devices, so long your internet latency is low enough. With that said we need more info about the feature before passing judgment.
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Click to collapse
AFAIK you don't have to be online to use the AI upscaling. I've read somewhere that the shield is using a pre-trained model to do the upscaling, that is presumably delivered with nvidias software.
Would be strange if the upscaling wouldn't work without internet, and i can't imagine everyone streaming their videos to a server and back all the time.
Someone to port 2019 Rom to older version... The devices have the same base ..android 9 .The drivers are not the problem...For AI upscaling you no need to be online
Neutrosider said:
AFAIK you don't have to be online to use the AI upscaling. I've read somewhere that the shield is using a pre-trained model to do the upscaling, that is presumably delivered with nvidias software.
Would be strange if the upscaling wouldn't work without internet, and i can't imagine everyone streaming their videos to a server and back all the time.
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That's my thoughts too, but NVIDIA is advertising it as AI Upscaling using the power of NVIDIA's own cloud computing servers. But I too have difficulty seeing that as the case. But then again, just about everything will eventually be moving to the cloud and there is nothing we can do to stop it. One day all our Operating Systems and Software will be run from the cloud. Its inevitable, especially after Quantum computing becomes a thing and fiber speeds are everywhere at a minimum, lol.
SkOrPn said:
That's my thoughts too, but NVIDIA is advertising it as AI Upscaling using the power of NVIDIA's own cloud computing servers. But I too have difficulty seeing that as the case. But then again, just about everything will eventually be moving to the cloud and there is nothing we can do to stop it. One day all our Operating Systems and Software will be run from the cloud. Its inevitable, especially after Quantum computing becomes a thing and fiber speeds are everywhere at a minimum, lol.
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Click to collapse
yes, but i'd just assume that their cloud computing servers were the ones that pre-trained the model, as that is what's so computationally intensive. The shield then just uses that model, and nvidia can still use the fancy new buzzwords for marketing!
But as i said, i don't know these things, they're just assumptions
Neutrosider said:
yes, but i'd just assume that their cloud computing servers were the ones that pre-trained the model, as that is what's so computationally intensive. The shield then just uses that model, and nvidia can still use the fancy new buzzwords for marketing!
But as i said, i don't know these things, they're just assumptions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My good friend just got his 2019 Pro today. He wants to figure out how to dump the entire OS image so someone can figure out if its something that can be ported over to our current devices. Meanwhile I'm going to ask him to test AI upscaling without an internet connection by using a 480p local file. I'm thinking 480 would be much earlier for him to notice the differences right away. Makes it easier to spot the scaling tech at work, if you know what I mean. The only reason he pre-ordered it was for this AI thing, lol.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/shield-tv-pro/help/how-to-dump-os-image-2019-shield-tv-pro-t3994891
alex22280 said:
Maybe some developer can port the 2019 rom to work on older 2017,2015....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if someone can find and upload the firmware ill definitely try
Hi
The up-scaling isn't that good or anything remarkable. I can achieve the same thing upping the sharpness and resolution enhancer controls on the TV to full, which I would never do as it just makes things look unrealistic.
I've turned it off and everything looks more natural and pleasing. Remember you can't add detail that isn't there in the first place. It's all an illusion to our brains that gives the impression it has more detail, but really it has less detail due the processing.
I really wouldn't worry about upgrading 2017 or 2015 Shield just for their "AI" upscaling, besides it only works on 30 frame per second content or less anyway, presumably because it is just a software function that they can't run fast enough for 60 fps, whereas all TVs have dedicated hardware silicon for their sharpening algorithms and cope fine up 60 fps.
Regards
Phil
Yeah this has been becoming apparent with the more reviews we have been seeing. Looks like the 2019 is more of a money grab than anything else. There's no way I would be upgrading to the 2019, just like I didn't upgrade to the 2017.
I have tried over a dozen different Android TV boxes in the last 5 years or so and the Shield TV comes in #1 with the absolute worst picture quality. It's video output is far far far too soft for me. I was just hoping it was finally fixed and had managed to catch up to the other SoC's. That's all. I already have my TV's sharpening filter at maximum to compensate for the shields crappy soft PQ.
SkOrPn said:
Yeah this has been becoming apparent with the more reviews we have been seeing. Looks like the 2019 is more of a money grab than anything else. There's no way I would be upgrading to the 2019, just like I didn't upgrade to the 2017.
I have tried over a dozen different Android TV boxes in the last 5 years or so and the Shield TV comes in #1 with the absolute worst picture quality. It's video output is far far far too soft for me. I was just hoping it was finally fixed and had managed to catch up to the other SoC's. That's all. I already have my TV's sharpening filter at maximum to compensate for the shields crappy soft PQ.
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They didn't even bother to change the case for the "new" Pro or anything. It's exactly the same as the old 2017 Shield, with maybe the exception of the Tegra X1+, which functionally runs at pretty much the same speed as the standard Tegra X1.
What Nvidia is essentially doing with this "upgrade" is charging everyone for the Dolby Vision license by making us buy the same exact hardware 2x!!! They knew their biggest customer request has been asking for Dolby Vision for years and was too cheap to offer it to us for free or at a nominal cost to the end-user.
To hell with the upscaling- it's all software based, and anyone who cares about PQ is going to play back video in native resolution with Kodi and let their TV handle it anyways. I'm much more interested in Dolby Vision (which is also all software based) and Dolby Atmos on Netflix (which Nvidia is purposely locking older Shield owners out of). If someone figures a way to rip the firmware off the 2019 models and get Dolby Vision working on the 2015/2017 Shields, I really don't care if I have to root my 2 Shields to do it. Frankly I'm pissed that Nvidia is forcing us to pay twice for essentially the same exact thing just to get something they could have easily offered as a software upgrade.
FYI- Yes, the Shield's PQ is awful- you're not going to get much improvement with any sharpening filter (AI or otherwise) if the base hardware output is crap. Since Nvidia hasn't appeared to change the 2019's hardware at all, you really can't expect much from it. Just buy a $30 S9xx Amlogic based Android box and install CoreELEC on it for Kodi. You can turn off the built in filtering and it looks AMAZING. You still get lossless audio, etc, etc. I might even spring for a S922x based box when they come down in price.
Hi
The AI upscaling isn't very good in my opinion, doesn't do anything you can't achieve by ramping up the sharpening controls on the TV panel, which we don't do as it just makes for an over-processed and fake looking image. We've turned it off and everything looks better for it. The marketing is the only thing that has worked with AI upscaling, and the demo slider looks good, but all that really demonstrates is what a lot of over-sharpening looks like!
It's all marketing.
Regards
Phil
Wagmans said:
FYI- Yes, the Shield's PQ is awful- you're not going to get much improvement with any sharpening filter (AI or otherwise) if the base hardware output is crap. Since Nvidia hasn't appeared to change the 2019's hardware at all, you really can't expect much from it. Just buy a $30 S9xx Amlogic based Android box and install CoreELEC on it for Kodi. You can turn off the built in filtering and it looks AMAZING. You still get lossless audio, etc, etc. I might even spring for a S922x based box when they come down in price.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This info has been well known for a long time about the shield tv's PQ, which is why I already went through more devices than I care to admit. But I wanted to find ONE box to rule them all as I only have 3 HDMI ports on my TV, one for the PC, one for the Sat box and one for the Android box. And none of the Amlogic based machines have the grunt snappiness that the Shield has, which is for me the most important of all the features. However, I was thinking of waiting for a S922X device myself just for our local content and youtube but I hate switching inputs constantly.
In order of importance for a single Android box
1. Performance, especially for Emulation gaming and overall snappiness.
2. Widevine L1, because most of my content comes from Netflix, Prime, Hulu and possibly Disney+ soon.
3. Picture Quality out of the box because my TV doesn't do a good job of upscaling on its own.
4. Android TV, because I ONLY use the Smart YouTube app so I have full control over the resolution, bitrates, codecs and adverts which in turns means I am looking for better PQ from my hundreds of subbed YT channels.
I'm hoping to see MINIX release a S922X streaming box (with L1 hopefully), that would be enough for me to try amlogic again, but I am certain it will under perform on other tasks. Like you said you really have to care about PQ to do something like that, and apparently I don't care that much because I'm willing to keep my 2015 shield because of its performance with everything else. I just got tired of the constant purchasing of amlogic devices only to be let down by the UI and gaming performance. Our 3rd gen MiBox in the living room will be my last S9xx device I believe. And for my bedroom I do not see my Shield TV leaving for quite some time unless someone else surprises us with a must have device, or I do a DIY build using the Snapdragon 855 (dead screened 2019 phone) and my brothers incredible 3D printer for a custom Android TV case. Lol
Just to say, a good trained ia can realy be powerfull to bring out detail from a low resolution picture.
Some time ago i processed all the ff7 graphic with an ia named esrgan and here's a sample:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
As you can see it's not an advanced sharpen at all, it's much more powerfull