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I was looking for a couple of threads that I had recently bookmarked to go back to later on only to find that they weren't bookmarked anymore. I spent almost an hour searching for them only to find the one specific thread in the trash. No warning or reason was given. Why was this done? I can understand if it's a thread with only a single post or perhaps even one that has become outdated (like a Cupcake release date thread) but why a thread that has 4 pages of information for a topic that doesn't have any reference for it already? Isn't this going to just create more new threads? More e-mails? More questions? Isn't this defeating the purpose of posting a new thread about a topic that hasn't been posted or stickied, if it is just going to be deleted?
If you look in the trash you will find SEVERAL Dream threads. In fact... just on the first page HALF (TEN out of TWENTY) are from the Dream thread! So just to clearify... of the dozens of different threads for different phones half of all trash is for the G1??? Isn't the trash supposed to be for SPAM?
How are these spam (just from the first page)???
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525564
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=524956
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519591
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525034
There are a few more of course but I can understand because most of the questions have been answerered and it would be faster and easier if these people used the search feature. But some haven't been. (example)
Instead of deleting the threads... merge them. But of course you get stuck with a 500+ page thread that MOST people will not read all the way through to see if the question they are about to ask has been asked/answered already. Which is of course why they post a new thread but guess what? It gets deleted and so another thread gets posted. It's never ending and I realize that this must be hard work for the mods.
So what to do?
I propose that instead of deleting these threads without reason or warning, to PM the original poster of the thread to ask of the significance of it and to provide a legitimate reason and purpose for it. Otherwise give warning or notice of the possible deletion. Of course this does not exempt the threads that are posting warez, copyright infringements and other obvious violations of memberships.
This is only my opinion and I hope that I have made an interesting point or two about this matter.
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
JanetPanic said:
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
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Yeah... okay. I agree that some of the most annoying problems with the dream thread is that people do post in the ROM Development thread. But is deleting so much easier then moving to the "Dream" thread? If so, does it out weight the inconvenience of the possiblity of the same question being reposted because it was unable to be found by the search feature?
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows. Is it really a bother that a thread is over a month old and hasn't had any recent posts? Does it really bother anyone? Of course not! They just ignore it, right? So why go through all the trouble to delete it? Some of the threads in the trash are still useful and there is absolutely no harm in keeping it in the proper catagories (ie Dream, Applications, Themes, etc).
Any mod that simply deletes a useful and recently commented thread because it was mistakenly posted under the wrong catgory instead of simply moving it, is just lazy in my own personal opinion and is doing more harm then good. Again... just my opinion.
Binary100100 said:
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows.
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That doesn't indicate that what the mods are doing is necessarily wrong, it means that new members continue to disregard the rules (posting already answered questions, posting in wrong forum, etc).
That said, I think the mods need to reevaluate how and when they do thread merges. The form of discussion in forums like these tend to be "conversation" centric. However, the threads are presented in a flat format (by default). That means that merging two threads of identical or similar topics will cause their conversations to intermix, with disastrous results. People already have piss-poor reading skills as it is.
What do you expect the moderators to do? We didn't give them a choice. The Dream forums are out of control and it would take the 3 or 4 moderators for these forums 8 hours a day not being paid to police it. You want someone to blame? Blame your fellow XDA members because there are only 2 solutions for this problem:
Get more moderators to baby sit the forums or increase the quality of posting within the Dream forums. The later is what we need here and what the moderators are hoping for.
Edit: And honestly, I think this is the best method. Do we have the potential for losing good information? Yes. This is how you teach the multitudes of Dream posters that there are consequences for being ignorant. Being stupid is not an excuse.
It is pretty annoying how the Dream thread has exploded and that the same questions just keep on cropping up. When I reply I do try to either re-direct them to my signature (which has the basic links to Dude's ROM, SPL, Apps2SD, Radio etc), teach them how to search with the actual result or just point them to the right direction.
However with 500+ pages or whatever, it can become a chore for newbies to read though, even if 70% of the info is in the first page.
I did recommend to the mods that the Dream section needs cleaning up, with a dedicated sub forum purely for the established (or popular) cooked ROMs. So underneath the Dream Dev sub-forum is another just for JF, Dude, Cyanogen, Haykuro etc. That should remove quite a lot of traffic and usual questions then from what is supposed to be a general development thread for other matters.
Then I would suggest a much more organised and up to date FAQ in such a sub-forum which covers all of the same questions that get asked daily. Any such questions that get asked in any of the ROM forums would then be re-directed to the FAQ.
Most of us I'm sure have come from large forums (lik-sang, avsfoums, etc) and know how to search, read etc but many newer members don't, be it due to lack of effort etc. However I'm sure there are many genuine new members who are willing to learn that only need a nudge in the right direction. Simply blocking them off by trashing, linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
I would put myself forward to help moderate the Dream section but I know that zero mod positions are available at the moment, but I do agree with the OP that trashing isn't always the solution.
NeoBlade said:
linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
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The main problem is that for the veterans who have been here since Sept/Oct 2008, everything more or less makes sense because they have seen it evolve to its current state. It's a lot like a guy who lives in a very very messy room who can still find the book buried under a pile of empty ramen cups and dirty laundry. Thus its easy to say "use the search!" in response to any newbie query. That said, from the first-timer newbie perspective, there are a few problems: 1) A lot of information crammed into two poorly organized subforums. 2) A lot of information is outdated and is superseded or contradicts newer information. 3) Some of the sticky threads have very poorly written or maintained first posts.
Sticky threads are not a very good way to store information for general consumption, unless the original poster is a very good communicator and also vigilantly updates the first post with concise information from the entire thread, no matter how long it is. Of the former sticky posts, few actually meet that standard. The ideal format for information conveyance is wiki, but then there is the disconnection between the wiki and active development. In other words, people don't like to move back and forth between the wiki and the forum.
I know what you mean jashu, I love my "organised mess" at home ^_^
It does take effort alright in keeping threads on topic and up to date, I remember when administrating the TokyoToys forum (I since had to close it, joint decision by myself and the owner) and also organising events for fans and people alike to meet up and have fun, took effort and more often enough without any recognition as well which can get discouraging.
Certainly if the OP kept his or her first post updated often enough with information it will keep questions down to a minimum however I still approve of a well made FAQ which is stickied. It then becomes a focal point as any FAQ should. I'm actually in the middle of writing one myself and once its done and the people concerned are happy with it, I would be happy to post it here too.
Ideally a wiki would be best because its user editable however I had a look at the XDA wiki and it does need a bit of TLC.
I will qualify my statement in that I come from the standpoint as an administrator in a prominent Linux forum that gets more posts in an hour in than the Dream forums get in a day. I firmly believe that draconian administration is not the answer and makes the forum far less pleasant to use. I think of administration as keeping things civil and posts in the right forum more than controlling creation of threads. Forcing the organization into a few mammoth threads is not any better than letting users create new threads without rules.
The developers forum is a bit of a mess and completely left to its own it would be worse than it is. The Development forum is not really about development anymore though. It more of a "custom ROM" forum. It is rare that I see an actual post on development on the android platform. Since the primary topic on the forum is custom ROMs the support questions for said ROMs get put in the development forum and generates a mess. Creating a ROM forum would just shift the mess, so I am not sure that would be better.
I think eventually the newbies who are flooding the forum with threads that could be answered by searching will either go away or learn to search. The current choice of administration is not educating the newbies though, it is just forcing them to learn. Regardless of how any of us users feel about the subject though the administrators have made their choice on how to deal with the Dream sub-forums. We are just along for the ride.
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change. Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
JanetPanic said:
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
There's always methods in dealing with issues and I do agree that its more of a ROM section than Development thesedays... Hence in my opinion it would be better off having a ROM section for such people to post on, which will clear up for people actually developling or helping to improve the android platform - Most notibly the Bluetooth OBEX support.
This isn't the fastest forum I've seen or been involved in in terms of volumes of posts, however it is getting to the point where re-structuring and possibly more moderators are needed to help ease the burden. When a large number of people register and start being active, it is often the best time to set an example and indeed set and establish a community where people help people - Be it to simple things as pointing them to the right direction to much more techinical issues.
Without the ethos to help each other, where would open source be?
Granted I know nothing about Linux myself and couldn't code to save my life but I do enjoy the technical discussions that take place. A lot of this is lost with the usual questions that get asked, hence the need for a more up to date FAQ. Tough love is needed but I believe with the right organisation, it shouldn't have to be the only answer.
uberingram said:
This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
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the G1 is the new sidekick. and the sidekick was such a fad and trend for kids to use as a phone. the hip hop and celebrity community did well in terms of marketing the sidekick to the mainstream public as being a "your not cool if you don't have one of these" items. also the emo/scene kids are all about what the "in" things and fads are, so that highly popularized the sidekick as well.
and now since the G1 came out, most of the people that got a sidekick for those particular reasons mentioned above, are now "upgrading" to the next newer cooler big thing.... the G1.
young people love to follow trends, fads, and what's cool at the moment.
right now, the G1 is just that.
it's a double edge for Android and the G1. the popularity is one of the key things needed to make Android and the G1 a success. but with popularity comes a lot riff raff and criticism that is not welcomed so well. but i digress lol
i just hope the sidekick comes out with a touchscreen version or something, so the kids have something new shiny to play with haha
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
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ohhh i have an idea...
like when you sign up you pick the phone and platform you use then instantly redirects the new member to a FAQ or pertinent threads associated to their liking of phone and platform and at the same time directly email them a link to those FAQ and whatnot.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK?.
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Yeah, it's just how mrcrs described it. The Sidekick became quite the fashion accessory model when celebrities started picking them up. They are pictured all over the tabloids and mentioned a lot of times in up-start musician's songs. I doubt very much that it would have panned out this way if T-Mobile released the SideKick 3G before the G1 but then again, T-Mobile needed a victory and a halo phone really fast.
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
NeoBlade said:
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
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whenever i join forums and in my inbox i get a message automatically, which is usually from the forum itself, i usually disregard it because all it is a "welcome to xyz forums... yada yada yada... enjoy your time here"
i usually don't open and read it, delete it then... go wreck havoc on finding out the information i want to know or read about. but that's just me
JanetPanic said:
This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
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IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
jashsu said:
To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
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I have been here since 2005 with the Blue Angel (then the Wizard, Jam, Magician, and the Artemis). Eventually XDA started dedicating a subforum to ROMs with the general development thread up top for WinMo development. The Dream right now just has the one combined forum. Another difference is that the ROM threads in Dream seem to grow faster than I remember on the WinMo threads. I am not sure what the difference is, maybe that usually there are a couple debug threads that die out which in the Dream forum is discouraged. Regardless the rapid posting makes it harder to keep up with more than one ROM.
jashsu said:
IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
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I agree, well put.
jashsu said:
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
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Good point as well.
After i see a couple of threats closed and after this words i must say somethig, and if you want you may delete or do whatever yoy want!
1
I must said That I'm tyred of you position and presumption over people.
If this is supously a forum for discuss ideas and point of views than i think You're not beave as you should.
If This isnt a forum to discuss ideas and pointsman of viewdata, than, congratulations for your beavement.
2
With this behavior you remind me a presitent of my country since 30's to 75. Salasar. If you don't know who he was search Wikipedia. National fascism. Who try to silence others.
That's what you are doing here with You're commentary and behaviors.
finaly.
Since and unfortunately anybody until now can crack the bootloader we must discuss something EVEN ANGEL's SEX. but i think you won't admirer. RIGHT?!
Sorry for my enghish. If it wasn't good enough for you to read you can delete this.
i think this is the thing you like best. Being superior.
Thks. And until someday.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Very trigger happy mods here. I mod on various forums too and you need to let people talk. Like someone else said, it's not a news group and we're not communicating through carrier pigeons or anything.
Well I pm'd PiLoT and he says he will open up the 2.1 thread once it has been released so that we can discuss it. So just wait a bit guys...
I was not refering ONLY to 2.1 threat.
Just check how many threats he had closed.
Long live censured sociaties and threats.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
rendeiro2005 said:
I was not refering ONLY to 2.1 threat.
Just check how many threats he had closed.
Long live censured sociaties and threats.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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Yup I pm'd him with exactly the same stuff that you were talking about, and his reply seems reasonable (to an extent)
I've had posts deleted too. When things go pear shaped I jump in with something light hearted. I admin'd my own forum a few years a go and only deleted slanderous posts which could get you or the forum in trouble. Food for thought when there's mass SE slandering going on but a 2.1 gets removed instead..... hmmmmm....
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
There should be a bit more organising of threads imo. I'd create a few new threads of some of the more common problems we are having so when a thread is closed you can be referred to the thread created by the mods.
But I do understand why some of the threads have been closed. If I'm having Market issues, I wouldn't dream of starting a new thread because there is just so many already, and that goes for most of the topics/questions that keep geting asked over and over.
Everyone needs to have thick skin on the internet. I am a genuine, caring person in real life but I'm not afraid to be a bit of a **** from time to time. I don't troll people and I'll drop it after a post or two. Most people are like that too.
The big problem makers just need to be banned. We don't need to nanny everyone and close all the threads.
johndub71 said:
I've had posts deleted too. When things go pear shaped I jump in with something light hearted. I admin'd my own forum a few years a go and only deleted slanderous posts which could get you or the forum in trouble. Food for thought when there's mass SE slandering going on but a 2.1 gets removed instead..... hmmmmm....
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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I personaly dont bother if we had or not 2.1
What bothets to me is JUST because someone gtes a "little"
pissoff dicided to close something
t from my X10i using XDA App
Personally I agree with him with most - not all - the threads he closed, all of them would end in trash talk and trolling, look at this forum and other phone forums, the xda forum should be full of guides and index threads, FAQ, etc..
Instead here we have.. well, you can see yourself, if someone said he killed a mosquito with number 2.1 printed on its back we will a make 10 page thread for it,
Another thing, mods use their free time to clean our trash instead of having sex with their gfs so you should be thankful about it,
One more thing, I live in Egypt, Google "president of Egypt" and you will see what it is that you are talking about.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
You are all lucky you do not post on the wind forums ( Orascoms carrier in canada ) Say just 1 thing thats not pro wind and you are deleted.. Not just that but dare to complain about the handset choices or coverage and you are attacked by the pro right wing wind lackies. I think ladies and gentlemen we have it good here.
mezo9090 said:
One more thing, I live in Egypt, Google "president of Egypt" and you will see what it is that you are talking about.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
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On that note google Orascom ! i hear what you are saying my friend loud and clear!
ok
firstly i want to point out the reasons behind deleting posts
A. If someone want to voice an opinion over a matter, then they need to do so in a thread that already exists for that purpose otherwise we have, for instance, multi touch debates on the first page, if someone opens a new thread to discuss a topic thats already being discussed then its called post redundancy, and im entitled to close it.
B."Ive had it with SE, X10" or "I've Sold me X10 for whatever reason"
I Close these thread as they contribute nothing to the forum in anyway shape or form
C, 2.1 Release updates
I admit im being overbearing as far as deleting these threads go, but the reason is simple. People broke the rules. there were two threads previous to the current one that got filled with hate and arguing so the current one was opened with rules stating post only news in here, no discussion or opinions, and i got 5 pages of posts to delete, therefore i locked it as we still need to news but i want PMs
then i get 4 or more of the same thread with info we all already know and will go into the news thread as soon as i get my pms, also bear in mind because of the monumental time that the updates has taken this is by far one of the most hostile sub-forums on xda and it cant continue. therefore ive had to take a necessary measure in order to keep the piece including banning three members as they couldn't stop arguing
D, Threads posted by iHIM or his sock-puppets
This one should be self explanatory
as for the comparison to António de Oliveira Salazar well im offended ive never visited Portugal nor do i intend taking over parts of Africa
also i don't believe in deleting thread if they threaten my beliefs on behaviour and moderation there fore this is being left undeleted so you can see my point of view
also youll see from some of my deleted threads im less dictator like as i let them know they can reach me via pm for discussion if they disagree with my decision
I hope you can see my points of view and come around to agreeing with my opinion XDA shouldn't ever have a forum full of nasty comments
XperiaX10iUser said:
There should be a bit more organising of threads imo. I'd create a few new threads of some of the more common problems we are having so when a thread is closed you can be referred to the thread created by the mods.
But I do understand why some of the threads have been closed. If I'm having Market issues, I wouldn't dream of starting a new thread because there is just so many already, and that goes for most of the topics/questions that keep geting asked over and over.
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your refering to this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=678156
no illadmit the mod who made that is never seen here so if you want to make a replacement and want it stickied and you believe it will be read then creat it post it then pm me and i will delete the moderators one
there fore u can be responsible for updating
This is the first time I've ever entered the X10 forums, at -PiLoT-'s request, and I have reviewed the deletions and thread closures, and all are in line with the way other forums and mods work on other sections of XDA.
Threads are constantly going off-topic, there is flaming in about every thread I have opened, and threads supposed to be used for news and announcements are being filled with off-topic flaming, abuse and attacks against other members.
There is more trolling in this forum than in any of the others combined, and the number of duplicate threads is significant. There is only a need for one thread on something. If it's the 2.1 update, then there is an existing thread for it. If all you've come to do is flame or attack someone else on this matter, then don't.
If you are in any doubt as to the purposes of this site, please take a read of both the forum rules and the XDA mantra (in my signature). XDA was set up as a community of developers to improve their devices as much as they could. Over time it has expanded to cover more devices, but the aim remains the same.
Multiple threads on the same matter are counter-productive, and make it harder for new users to find information, so those threads may be closed for that reason. Additionally, if a new thread is made to announce "old news", it is right that it be deleted.
As I said, I have reviewed deletions, and all I have found deleted are flames, personal attacks, rude posts, off-topic nonsense or a combination of the above. The forum rules are located at http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=615 and I would encourage anyone who feels this kind of behaviour to be acceptable on XDA to read them carefully, particularly rule 2.
With regard to closing threads, this is a step taken when a thread has derailed sufficiently (and been cleaned) that allowing posting to continue would result in more flaming/off topic/abuse/junk. Closing a thread permits everyone to see the information discussed previously, and is preferable to deletion in cases such as this. Deletion is used where the contents of a thread or post are duplicates of existing material, and discussion has not developed, or containing abusive content.
As such, I can see no complaint here, as everything done is in the interests of XDA users. Nothing has been removed which is of any value (which was not duplicated in more detail elsewhere), and closed threads had either become permanent flame-wars, or were duplicates of questions or information that has been posted numerous times (thus needing closed to allow people to find the answers via search without coming across pages of flame wars over asking a question).
Again, take a read of the forum rules if you can't see anything wrong with the threads/posts that got deleted, and take a read of the XDA mantra ("What is XDA about?" in my signature)...
Honestly I don't know why you guys are complaining, if you've been following the X10 thread since the device's release back at the end of March you'll know that the problems described above by the mods were getting WAY out of hand without a proper moderator here and we all complained we needed one. Now finally we have that and people are complaining about that! I don't get it
Use the search button, then use it again...then again....then one more time. Then decide if you really need to start a new thread, more than likely you don't.
If you read any other threads on XDA they're absolutely right about this one being the worst for hostility and trolling, it was horrible for a while and I for one and very happy to see someone finally cleaning up all the **** on here and enforcing proper etiquette. Think about how much time you waste sifting through crap and ignorant opinions on here while you're looking for some legit information. The best thread here is the "Custom rom development : Devs only" and why do you think that is?
I totally agree with the MODS. Its bad enough trying to find anything in this forum without having to troll through hundreds of useless and pointless posts.
Keep up the good work Mods........
come on now, i own many previous phones before! i never seen so many threads closed, it' getting ridiculous! i used to own HTC Tytn, then HTC HD2, and now Samsung Captivate, and my gf has X10. go check out Tytn, HD2, or Captivate forums, closed thread rarely happens. isnt forum is for discussion?
update: oh, i forgot, i also used to own sony X1. haha
Just to back this up, I just moved 10 threads out of development for being questions. That's 50% of the threads visible on the first page to me...
And once I moved those 10 threads, another 10 threads came onto the front page, and every one of them was a question, complete with question tag.
Well, after some comments by moderators, I admit that:
1 - Maybe (and just maybe) have exaggerated the words, however, does not invalidate my opinion at all.
2 - I understand and agree in part (and thank) the explanations given.
3 - I admit it is not permissible certain kind of feedback from users of this forum, so obviously these comments will be deleted, however, does not seem right to close a forum discussion because of those comments even more heated (up rude). Perhaps it is more correct to call attention to certain kinds of behaviors and the consequences if they aren`t changed.
4 - I think it is preferable to "delete" comments that closing a topic (of course repeated topics obviously have to be deleted, do not argue that)
5 - is evident to me that this "call" clutter the forum X10 has to do with the fact that the devs so far failed to crack the bootloader for our X10 and the delay on the part of the SE to release a new version of Android , which leads to discussions, arguments, theories, etc. on our part.
5 - it is true and obvious that users of this sub-forum are lazier than they should and in fact should look more carefully before opening useless topics.
6 - continuo a pensar que, embora tudo o que foi explicado anteriormente seja válido, existem demasiados tópicos fechados para meu gosto. pois este e qualquer outro forum existente, serve para discussão. pois é da discussão que o mundo avança.
Portuguese to English translation
translate still think that even though everything was explained earlier is valid, there are too many threads closed for my taste. for this and any other existing forum serves for discussion. because the discussion is that the world progresses.
7 - For me the issue is closed
every since this phone was announced these threads have been sprinked with useless garbage, generally speaking.
please clean up your stuff, one guy was complaining how there is lag on his nexus S after 62+ apps. Get a grip, child. compared it to his nexus one...which had well over 100 apps. this is nonsense and i dont find it as a gauge to compare anything...sounds just dumb.
gripe. but gripe right. for instance.
nexus s is an official google phone. yet i had to MANUALLY get all their apps, google ones that is, not to mention my market didnt upgrade STILL on its own. weird how i had to literally type out the market apps to find its upgrades in stuff i had.
EVERYTHING i had to get. which simply BAFFLES me since my tmobile G2 had everything pushed instantly.
Secondly, rockplayer....PLEASE WORK..i neeed to see movies. all the codes needed to be updated now...god dammit.
I guess this what its like to have a google only phone? i dont know, i dont get it. i find this phone incredibly gorgeous and have gotten alot of compliments. going to miss my nexus one but its the next of kin..im off contract still..my 3g is faastt 4.3mb-5.1mb always. idk..just clean up your talk
Good point, I have noticed a lot of useless fluff everywhere, but over time that will probably disappear as more and more devs are able to release NS mods and roms which, if popular, will push all the useless threads back down the que. But that still doesn't solve the problem, so I will add my support behind this.
Some tips to avoid posting useless posts
1. Use common sense: lag after 62+ apps, maybe more are running in the background, or more intensive? Think!
2. Google/search it: more and more people are getting this phone, so maybe you will find another post like yours, with an answer already in it!
3. Try and fix the problem yourself: with the lag example, maybe try the task manager and see if anything is hogging resources? That seems quite easy to do, no?
Then maybe it's a good idea to post a thread.
Never mind posting in the right section... Seriously, the development section is overflowing with threads that belong into general. Ironically, this thread is a prime example. It doesn't help that the mods (whoever and wherever you guys are) seem to be non-existing in this forum. Whosdaman has been doing a great job keeping the MT4G forum organized while at the same time helping people understand what belongs where. Where are our mods and how come there still isn't a Q&A section?
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
I don't know, I find it kind of amusing that a guy with a whopping two whole posts in 5 months to his name is going to start a thread saying most other posts on the forums are useless garbage. Seems kind of pretentious to me.
I'm all for SEARCHING before starting a new thread, and SEARCHING before asking the same question in a thread that's already been asked and answered a dozen times. I'm all for READING FAQ and READING STICKY POSTS before posting questions. I'm all for POSTING IN THE RIGHT SECTION.
And to the OP, I'm all for USING A PROPERLY DESCRIPTIVE THREAD TITLE. Yours gives no indication about what you're really discussing in here. Something like "Let's keep this forum on-topic" or similar would be much more appropriate in my opinion. You also marked this as a QUESTION, and it's not. Very poor topic titling...
On the other side of that coin, I'm not sure I'm qualified, or anyone else besides moderators, to say you're question/post was too stupid to have been made, go away. Sheesh, we're here to help and learn off each other; that kind of attitude isn't conducive to a helpful environment. It leads to the kind of cesspool that our sister device's (the Vibrant) forum turned into where there's so much sniping and hatred at everyone that several high-profile devs have left.
Is it just me that I think the OP is also a useless gripe?
Sent from my Nexus S
nxt said:
Is it just me that I think the OP is also a useless gripe?
Sent from my Nexus S
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Is it just me that I think the OP is an Ass?
JD
PRETENTIOUS? how about whatever I need I researched or found put on my own. Just because I wrote tyro posts? Come on guy, your better than that.
dudeimgeorge said:
PRETENTIOUS? how about whatever I need I researched or found put on my own. Just because I wrote tyro posts? Come on guy, your better than that.
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I applaud you're ability to find your own answers, but yes, your OP here was a bit pretentious in my opinion.
It's pretentious because you assume that your judgment of what is and is not a value-added post is the only accurate one while at the same time you make the very same mistakes that you're criticizing. You posted in what some might consider the wrong section, with the wrong topic title, and marked the thread as as a question despite the fact that there is not a single question in your post. Then you threw in insults to others by saying their posts and opinions on lag are dumb, and then went on to about four different issues that aren't related to your original subject.
The original premise of your OP was that we shouldn't clutter the forum with irrelevant posts, but then you did that very same thing with your post. It's certainly ironic, if not pretentious.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, just amused at the pot calling the kettle black situation here. This thread should die.
Well, you know the drill: MY concerns are serious bidness; YOUR concerns are frivolous garbage.
I restored 87 apps with Titanium Backup. No lag whatsoever. Everything runs smooth like butter. Much smoother than when I had the Vibrant. So that person obviously installed something to make it lag.
Man did I **** up. Haha. Sorry man.Your my boy regardless.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
Alot of good information can be found in this forum - if you dig deep enough and have huge amount of time to spend on it. Because most of the posts are just crap. People saying "Yes, dito that. Will install tomorrow" or, nonsense as "thanks, appreciate that".
For Christ sake. Posts with private messages should not be public. That's why we have a private message function in most forums. Who's in charge in this forum? Keep all private information as private messages, and keep it OFF the forum. People who needs some important info on something involving mobile devices have to browse for hours before finding it - and it's mostly due to all nonsense crap within.
Normally, moderators do their job and clean up the forums from crap, but not here however. I don't know why though. Maybe there are no moderators in here
Believe me, no one really cares if some special person "will install it later" or whatever. IF the masses would care - a poll would is posted. In that case, all opinions are wanted and collected in a thread. That's OK since answers are wanted then. But if someone just wants to say "thanks" - please keep it as a private message, please please, so that all the poor readers don't have to browse through all the sh*t when looking to find some important info.
If there are moderators here - why aren't they doing their job?
If there ain't no moderators - please get some. I think this forum needs 10 or more, but then it could increase in quality tenfold or more.
Clean this up for Christ sake. Delete the nonsense. Increase quality. Make it worthy a visit, or even better, a search.
TBH, the search page is kinda useless as it's missing information on how to properly search the forums. in standard way, if you enter more than one word as search query, it will list all the forum entries where at least one word was found - utterly useless in most cases... making the search page easier for new users would probably help alot to get rid of double posts.
I think you partly make a valid point, but you just sound bitter and your poll is VERY biased. Why could it not just say "Yes" and "No"?
For that reason, I'm out of here and not taking part.
You know, I wanted to say the same thing for a long time. I'm also sad how low moderation we have here on SGS2 forums, it really makes me not want to take part of discussion. Like for example the arguing about forum manners in 2.3.4 leak root being available topic, it really should not be tolerated
I guess the main reason is simply lack of moderator staff - but I feel that sometimes none of the moderators even takes a look in general section for a whole day.
I'm not sure about their area of responsibility, but there are mods in our dev section...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
The moderators on xda are not paid, so I for one don't expect them to sit at a computer all day and read every single post in every thread in every forum. There's a button on every single post for reporting inappropriate behaviour, so we, as the community, have a responsibility to let them know when something's wrong.
I've reported all sorts of things including spam, rascism, foul language, warez links and just general rude behaviour. Every single time I've done that, without fail, it has been dealt with in the best way possible.
I think you underestimate how much goes on in these forums, and the SGS2 forum is quiet compared to some of the others!
I think the mods deserve our thanks, not our disdain. If you want a better community then you do something about it.
I think this forum is normal. It has all the typical groups of posters. Undoubtedly, the newest most awesomest smartphone is gonna attract a ton of people and it will be almost impossible to stop all their threads and posts. I think the other members do a good job modertating the serious transgressions.
I would have liked to come here and instantly found the answers to all my questions, but I realize this is a complicated subject matter and the answers I seek might not even exist. There aren't definitive answers to a lot of questions. A lot is unknown or opinion based. And if there is an answer, there are usually multiple answers.
Personally, I don't mind the dynamic that leads to multiple threads on the same subject within the same hour. You can't stop the noob onslaught. Come back after it's not cool to be here and you'll find a completely different forum.
By the way, what were you searching for?
You can apply to be a moderator if you wish to .. Nice to start your first post of with a Bang
The way I see with the amount of posting that goes in XDA with thousands of members and hundreds of post it really will be hard to moderate, especially as SGS2 is the hottest selling phone right now and lot of activity going around it.
The search function is good but still sometimes its hard to find specific answers and then its much more easier just to create a post.
Unless of course If there is a wiki or something with all things related to the SGS2
johncmolyneux said:
the SGS2 forum is quiet compared to some of the others!
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tfn said:
You can apply to be a moderator if you wish to .. Nice to start your first post of with a Bang
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Seriously? With 1 post and 0 thanks that means you've contributed nothing. And you first post is a ***** that its too hard for you to find things. A bit selfish, no? Forums aren't designed to be your personal wiki. Something tells me you're not going to make a lot of friends here.
Hi there.
If you're new to Android, how about you actually figure out the OS before you go ***** in the forums to developers?
People seem to think that XDA is a place to go get updates for their phone, and then complain about how it has problems.
It isn't. Developers don't owe you squat. They put out what they WANT to put out. XDA is a development forum, made by developers for developers. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.
Also, people tend to ***** about problems that they caused themselves. For example, I see people complaining in kernel threads about how they undervolted their phone by -75mv in SetCPU and then complain about how they got a freeze or a SoD and proceed to ask the developer to "fix kernal pl0x".
If you mess with system settings, take a second to think that what you're doing *might* be causing problems.
If you DO have a legitimate problem, take a second to think that someone else might have the problem. Search the thread and check if someone else has the same problem. One thing that is somewhat recurring is people saying "herp I'm too lazy to search 5 pages in the thread". If you're too lazy to click your mouse a few times, kindly consider driving off a cliff.
Also, fun fact, did you know that every time you ***** about battery life a baby seal drowns? True story.
Let your battery go through 2 charge cycles, check for wakelocks on your phone with BetterBatteryStats. If all else fails, consider charging your phone overnight. It's not like you live in an Amazonian forest with no power and need your smartphone to last for a month without charging. Go buy an old Nokia if you need your battery to last long.
Here's another thought: try to make your post even remotely readable. Use proper English, it helps us actually understand whatever you're trying to say.
Spare us all headaches and use your common sense.
Here's some more reading material: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=19643797&postcount=5298
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leech_(computing)
Good point well made.
Well said - although I might have said in more gentle terms But there is no doubt whatsoever that any settings, ROM flashing, kernel flashing etc. is at the users own risk and no developer can be held responsible for any damage!
Isn't it possible somehow to make a checklist for new users that are important before they mess around? As they are new we got to help them in order to avoid the "stupid" questions.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Agree with you that XDA is a Developers forum
But on a side note I am sure Devs like that their work is appreciated and in turn I am sure it motivates them to continue working towards better roms and stuff.
I have seen most Devs on XDA take it as creative criticism and always try to get work arounds preety quickly which is think is super brilliant.
You can't stop people *****ing around its each person's nature and I guess we can just ignore them and carry on with the good things that XDA has to offer us.
Besides N00bs will be Noobs - I still am and grateful for XDA Dev's and Members for their Support
Still a Good Point made...
While I agree with most points made, I should also point out the obvious point that without users there's no need for developers. I'm sure the developers would like people to make use of their work.
Also, while searching in theory is nice, sometimes it doesn't work. A problem can be described in many ways. I fully support that users should search before asking, but don't be too hard on people who ask. Some may have searched and failed to find relevant answers.
Totally agree. But with android selling like wild fire the noob intake will increase like crazy. Call it pure laziness to be honest lol.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Logi_Ca1 said:
without users there's no need for developers
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lol.... looks like you really know how this site started..
As i said on a previous thread temporary bannings need to start being issued should people come on and start asking questions which have been answered dozens of times before, i don't know if it's possible in the registration process so newbies can be informed that they need to use the search function first and foremost for any questions where they will most likely find the answer to their questions and only if they cant may then then start a thread where they will most likely get plenty of assistance,when i first joined it was nowhere near as bad as it is now, it's quite painful coming on here sometimes and looking at the same old questions day in,day out.
@OP- Read this before you spread your smart advices to others.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
Forum definition: A public meeting place for open discussion.
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I also may add when i first joined or rather a few weeks before i registered i done a bit of reading on XDA to try and familiar myself with some of the topics and jargon used as i didn't really have a clue about anything like this, but back to my original point, use the search function and chances are it will bring up something that your looking for at this stage i cant think of anything that hasn't been covered on here with regard to the SGSII.
ithehappy said:
@OP- Read this before you spread your smart advices to others.
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
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You see, forums are made to discuss specific things. This particular forum was made to discuss development for Windows Mobile and Android. Therefore, we should keep discussion specific to development. And I'm pretty sure development talk isn't "FIX KERNAL PL0X BATTERY DRAINZZ!".
But then again, what do I know.
Maybe a little aggressive, especially to new members, I understand the point being made, but I like many others have come here to ask for advice and share my finding with other like minded android users, some of the advice I've found most useful has been from other new members with similar issues and questions. Be careful not to frighten new folks off. I've seen threads like this destroy forums in the past. It's all about the wording, and coming across friendly, but allowing folks to understand how the forum works. From what I've read, there are plenty of warning on the rooting and firmware threads, so users have been warned before they try anything vaguely risky. There will always be those who don't heed the advice, but those folks ain't likely to read this thread. Anyhoots peace to all, as this a great place.
so unfriendly. everybody started off as noobs, including developers.
Seifer1975 said:
so unfriendly. everybody started off as noobs, including developers.
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I'm not bashing noobs, I'm telling them to stop being idiots.
I agree with the op.
Each time I have come accross a problem, it has been remedied by returning to the developer's thread to follow the instructions properly, along with taking on board what tips fellow members have said in the assosiated thread.
If I can figure that much out -which isn't rocket science- then I am sure that other should be able to. If only we lived in 'should land'.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
At this point I'm glad that we still have developers here. I couldn't develop my way out of a hostage situation, but am willing to:
Follow the instructions,
Search if I have a problem,
Verify that I did indeed follow the instructions,
Provide a detailed description of problem if I can't rectify,
Present the developer with any info they may need to diagnose (logs, etc...),
Respect the distinction between Q&A and development,
When it doubt watch the video again, you're a noob f-stick and so am I,
Don't piss and moan when I have an issue, I elected to not have a stock phone, nobody held a gun to my head, but if you piss and moan it makes me want to hold a Kalashnikov to yours: search, contribute, learn to troubleshoot.
The Me Generation, need I say more?
I've been sickened keeping up with the siriya thread at the amount of people asking dumb questions too. It doesn't seem to be getting any better.
I work retail and I barely barely have enough free time or energy to keep up with playing with my galaxy s. I have no idea how these developers even do it.
People need to learn some respect for these amazing guys. But I guess the amount of noobs will only ever increase. So I guess the devs will need to adapt.
Anyway, one reason I'm posting this is because it's my 10th post and this allows me to go and post my thanks in the syriya thread!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
Logi_Ca1 said:
While I agree with most points made, I should also point out the obvious point that without users there's no need for developers. I'm sure the developers would like people to make use of their work.
Also, while searching in theory is nice, sometimes it doesn't work. A problem can be described in many ways. I fully support that users should search before asking, but don't be too hard on people who ask. Some may have searched and failed to find relevant answers.
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Well that's one of the things. Developers don't do it just for people to use it. They do it for learning, testing, and fun. There were custom roms for smartphones when only other developers used it. Did that stop them? Nope we got great things like Cookies Hometab and MaxSense. Everytime I hear "without users their would be no developers" I just have to sit back and say "really what do you think we have been doing on XDA for years before the average user even knew what a smartphone was?"
There is a lot of pointless stuff posted on xda now, often by people who show no respect for the fact that everything here is free of charge. The price of free is that you do a little legwork & read the threads before posting crap like "help i bricked my phone" or "why don't you take the softkeys off the ics gui" which must have been asked 3000 times, when will you release it, which is the best rom? etc.
The admins asked for suggestions last year on how to manage the influx of new members. I didn't suggest anything so I now reap what I sowed. I do have some suggestions now though; let the devs, admins and people with something to download start new threads for free and make the people starting helpdesk or spammy type threads pay, use a keyword or keyphrase blocklist to stop people who can't be bothered to read or who want to ask unreasonable questions from clogging up the threads.
Xda now has adverts so obviously the more the merrier for revenue but if the target is quantity over quality the mods shouldn't complain when they go and clean all the spam out of threads, instead they should just say thanks for your spam please call again soon.
So what is the aim, quality or quantity?
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
umadbro?!?!?!