Database Users

Why are people asking the same questions?

Erm, almost all of the topics on the first few pages have been asked and answered already very recently.
Maybe if when you clicked 'New thread' a dialog asking "Would you like to search the forums for the answer first?" popped up, people would actually search and add to existing threads. Maybe
Or if there was a rating system where users could click 'this has been asked and answered before'

I totally agree, I found this forum like many other XDA noobs as it is the most active community discussing the X1. however even I instantly recognised that this is not the place for "how do I do this?" questions. The Xperia has definately introduced a whole new generation of users (including myself) to PDAs and indeed to Windows mobile which in turn creates a wave of previously mentioned questions. All this stuff which can be learned by reading the manual, googling, or even calling customer support should not be asked in a developer forum and is only slowing down the progress of the people in the scene which really matter. I would be very happy to abide by rules such as junior members not allowed to create new threads, or even (as mentioned) a MASSIVE notice when creating a new thread that doesnt let you post until you have run a search. Anyone used OZGrid forums for Excel/Office programming help? thats exactly what they do there, and if you post a stupid question thats already been answered - two week ban. I am very happy to abide by these rules for a more productive community - my 2p

why do i have to read your complaints? are your complaints new? Do a search, im sure youll see some complaints like yours.

rough... so rough...
Some of us still ask questions that are specific to the device, and I believe that still having one repository for XPeria related stuff isn't a bad thing, even if it's repetitive.
If we could update the Wiki it would probably be better (ahem - I couldn't create a page for some reason?)

billybobjones said:
why do i have to read your complaints? are your complaints new? Do a search, im sure youll see some complaints like yours.
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lol hats off to you

billybobjones said:
why do i have to read your complaints? are your complaints new? Do a search, im sure youll see some complaints like yours.
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What are you talking about? There are no other threads about this in this forum. I always search - why else would it annoy me that others don't. I suppose you didn't when you made that comment.
Edit: It also annoys me when people fill up the forums with useless comments. Happens all over the net, but serves no purpose. And, BillyBobJones, you chose to read my complaint, when you clicked on the very descriptive, unique, thread title. Seems you haven't made any valid poitns at all then. Were you just looking to complain? Are you bored, or do you just enjoy it? Shu.

perhaps sometimes searches may not bring out exact solutions? folks lets be a little nicer ya?

and you chose to read repetitive threads. Whats your point? I bet theres many on this whole site. in fact, i bet i can find comments like yours where people are instructed to use the search..
http://www.google.com/cse?cx=000825...=use+the+search&cof=FORID:0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
i dont see how this thread is helping anyone.

Why Are Threads Being Trashed?

I was looking for a couple of threads that I had recently bookmarked to go back to later on only to find that they weren't bookmarked anymore. I spent almost an hour searching for them only to find the one specific thread in the trash. No warning or reason was given. Why was this done? I can understand if it's a thread with only a single post or perhaps even one that has become outdated (like a Cupcake release date thread) but why a thread that has 4 pages of information for a topic that doesn't have any reference for it already? Isn't this going to just create more new threads? More e-mails? More questions? Isn't this defeating the purpose of posting a new thread about a topic that hasn't been posted or stickied, if it is just going to be deleted?
If you look in the trash you will find SEVERAL Dream threads. In fact... just on the first page HALF (TEN out of TWENTY) are from the Dream thread! So just to clearify... of the dozens of different threads for different phones half of all trash is for the G1??? Isn't the trash supposed to be for SPAM?
How are these spam (just from the first page)???
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525564
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=524956
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519591
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525034
There are a few more of course but I can understand because most of the questions have been answerered and it would be faster and easier if these people used the search feature. But some haven't been. (example)
Instead of deleting the threads... merge them. But of course you get stuck with a 500+ page thread that MOST people will not read all the way through to see if the question they are about to ask has been asked/answered already. Which is of course why they post a new thread but guess what? It gets deleted and so another thread gets posted. It's never ending and I realize that this must be hard work for the mods.
So what to do?
I propose that instead of deleting these threads without reason or warning, to PM the original poster of the thread to ask of the significance of it and to provide a legitimate reason and purpose for it. Otherwise give warning or notice of the possible deletion. Of course this does not exempt the threads that are posting warez, copyright infringements and other obvious violations of memberships.
This is only my opinion and I hope that I have made an interesting point or two about this matter.

Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.

JanetPanic said:
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
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Yeah... okay. I agree that some of the most annoying problems with the dream thread is that people do post in the ROM Development thread. But is deleting so much easier then moving to the "Dream" thread? If so, does it out weight the inconvenience of the possiblity of the same question being reposted because it was unable to be found by the search feature?
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows. Is it really a bother that a thread is over a month old and hasn't had any recent posts? Does it really bother anyone? Of course not! They just ignore it, right? So why go through all the trouble to delete it? Some of the threads in the trash are still useful and there is absolutely no harm in keeping it in the proper catagories (ie Dream, Applications, Themes, etc).
Any mod that simply deletes a useful and recently commented thread because it was mistakenly posted under the wrong catgory instead of simply moving it, is just lazy in my own personal opinion and is doing more harm then good. Again... just my opinion.

Binary100100 said:
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows.
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That doesn't indicate that what the mods are doing is necessarily wrong, it means that new members continue to disregard the rules (posting already answered questions, posting in wrong forum, etc).
That said, I think the mods need to reevaluate how and when they do thread merges. The form of discussion in forums like these tend to be "conversation" centric. However, the threads are presented in a flat format (by default). That means that merging two threads of identical or similar topics will cause their conversations to intermix, with disastrous results. People already have piss-poor reading skills as it is.

What do you expect the moderators to do? We didn't give them a choice. The Dream forums are out of control and it would take the 3 or 4 moderators for these forums 8 hours a day not being paid to police it. You want someone to blame? Blame your fellow XDA members because there are only 2 solutions for this problem:
Get more moderators to baby sit the forums or increase the quality of posting within the Dream forums. The later is what we need here and what the moderators are hoping for.
Edit: And honestly, I think this is the best method. Do we have the potential for losing good information? Yes. This is how you teach the multitudes of Dream posters that there are consequences for being ignorant. Being stupid is not an excuse.

It is pretty annoying how the Dream thread has exploded and that the same questions just keep on cropping up. When I reply I do try to either re-direct them to my signature (which has the basic links to Dude's ROM, SPL, Apps2SD, Radio etc), teach them how to search with the actual result or just point them to the right direction.
However with 500+ pages or whatever, it can become a chore for newbies to read though, even if 70% of the info is in the first page.
I did recommend to the mods that the Dream section needs cleaning up, with a dedicated sub forum purely for the established (or popular) cooked ROMs. So underneath the Dream Dev sub-forum is another just for JF, Dude, Cyanogen, Haykuro etc. That should remove quite a lot of traffic and usual questions then from what is supposed to be a general development thread for other matters.
Then I would suggest a much more organised and up to date FAQ in such a sub-forum which covers all of the same questions that get asked daily. Any such questions that get asked in any of the ROM forums would then be re-directed to the FAQ.
Most of us I'm sure have come from large forums (lik-sang, avsfoums, etc) and know how to search, read etc but many newer members don't, be it due to lack of effort etc. However I'm sure there are many genuine new members who are willing to learn that only need a nudge in the right direction. Simply blocking them off by trashing, linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
I would put myself forward to help moderate the Dream section but I know that zero mod positions are available at the moment, but I do agree with the OP that trashing isn't always the solution.

NeoBlade said:
linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
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The main problem is that for the veterans who have been here since Sept/Oct 2008, everything more or less makes sense because they have seen it evolve to its current state. It's a lot like a guy who lives in a very very messy room who can still find the book buried under a pile of empty ramen cups and dirty laundry. Thus its easy to say "use the search!" in response to any newbie query. That said, from the first-timer newbie perspective, there are a few problems: 1) A lot of information crammed into two poorly organized subforums. 2) A lot of information is outdated and is superseded or contradicts newer information. 3) Some of the sticky threads have very poorly written or maintained first posts.
Sticky threads are not a very good way to store information for general consumption, unless the original poster is a very good communicator and also vigilantly updates the first post with concise information from the entire thread, no matter how long it is. Of the former sticky posts, few actually meet that standard. The ideal format for information conveyance is wiki, but then there is the disconnection between the wiki and active development. In other words, people don't like to move back and forth between the wiki and the forum.

I know what you mean jashu, I love my "organised mess" at home ^_^
It does take effort alright in keeping threads on topic and up to date, I remember when administrating the TokyoToys forum (I since had to close it, joint decision by myself and the owner) and also organising events for fans and people alike to meet up and have fun, took effort and more often enough without any recognition as well which can get discouraging.
Certainly if the OP kept his or her first post updated often enough with information it will keep questions down to a minimum however I still approve of a well made FAQ which is stickied. It then becomes a focal point as any FAQ should. I'm actually in the middle of writing one myself and once its done and the people concerned are happy with it, I would be happy to post it here too.
Ideally a wiki would be best because its user editable however I had a look at the XDA wiki and it does need a bit of TLC.

I will qualify my statement in that I come from the standpoint as an administrator in a prominent Linux forum that gets more posts in an hour in than the Dream forums get in a day. I firmly believe that draconian administration is not the answer and makes the forum far less pleasant to use. I think of administration as keeping things civil and posts in the right forum more than controlling creation of threads. Forcing the organization into a few mammoth threads is not any better than letting users create new threads without rules.
The developers forum is a bit of a mess and completely left to its own it would be worse than it is. The Development forum is not really about development anymore though. It more of a "custom ROM" forum. It is rare that I see an actual post on development on the android platform. Since the primary topic on the forum is custom ROMs the support questions for said ROMs get put in the development forum and generates a mess. Creating a ROM forum would just shift the mess, so I am not sure that would be better.
I think eventually the newbies who are flooding the forum with threads that could be answered by searching will either go away or learn to search. The current choice of administration is not educating the newbies though, it is just forcing them to learn. Regardless of how any of us users feel about the subject though the administrators have made their choice on how to deal with the Dream sub-forums. We are just along for the ride.
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change. Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.

JanetPanic said:
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.

There's always methods in dealing with issues and I do agree that its more of a ROM section than Development thesedays... Hence in my opinion it would be better off having a ROM section for such people to post on, which will clear up for people actually developling or helping to improve the android platform - Most notibly the Bluetooth OBEX support.
This isn't the fastest forum I've seen or been involved in in terms of volumes of posts, however it is getting to the point where re-structuring and possibly more moderators are needed to help ease the burden. When a large number of people register and start being active, it is often the best time to set an example and indeed set and establish a community where people help people - Be it to simple things as pointing them to the right direction to much more techinical issues.
Without the ethos to help each other, where would open source be?
Granted I know nothing about Linux myself and couldn't code to save my life but I do enjoy the technical discussions that take place. A lot of this is lost with the usual questions that get asked, hence the need for a more up to date FAQ. Tough love is needed but I believe with the right organisation, it shouldn't have to be the only answer.

uberingram said:
This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
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the G1 is the new sidekick. and the sidekick was such a fad and trend for kids to use as a phone. the hip hop and celebrity community did well in terms of marketing the sidekick to the mainstream public as being a "your not cool if you don't have one of these" items. also the emo/scene kids are all about what the "in" things and fads are, so that highly popularized the sidekick as well.
and now since the G1 came out, most of the people that got a sidekick for those particular reasons mentioned above, are now "upgrading" to the next newer cooler big thing.... the G1.
young people love to follow trends, fads, and what's cool at the moment.
right now, the G1 is just that.
it's a double edge for Android and the G1. the popularity is one of the key things needed to make Android and the G1 a success. but with popularity comes a lot riff raff and criticism that is not welcomed so well. but i digress lol
i just hope the sidekick comes out with a touchscreen version or something, so the kids have something new shiny to play with haha

Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.

NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
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ohhh i have an idea...
like when you sign up you pick the phone and platform you use then instantly redirects the new member to a FAQ or pertinent threads associated to their liking of phone and platform and at the same time directly email them a link to those FAQ and whatnot.

NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK?.
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Yeah, it's just how mrcrs described it. The Sidekick became quite the fashion accessory model when celebrities started picking them up. They are pictured all over the tabloids and mentioned a lot of times in up-start musician's songs. I doubt very much that it would have panned out this way if T-Mobile released the SideKick 3G before the G1 but then again, T-Mobile needed a victory and a halo phone really fast.

That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.

NeoBlade said:
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
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whenever i join forums and in my inbox i get a message automatically, which is usually from the forum itself, i usually disregard it because all it is a "welcome to xyz forums... yada yada yada... enjoy your time here"
i usually don't open and read it, delete it then... go wreck havoc on finding out the information i want to know or read about. but that's just me

JanetPanic said:
This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
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To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
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IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.

jashsu said:
To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
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I have been here since 2005 with the Blue Angel (then the Wizard, Jam, Magician, and the Artemis). Eventually XDA started dedicating a subforum to ROMs with the general development thread up top for WinMo development. The Dream right now just has the one combined forum. Another difference is that the ROM threads in Dream seem to grow faster than I remember on the WinMo threads. I am not sure what the difference is, maybe that usually there are a couple debug threads that die out which in the Dream forum is discouraged. Regardless the rapid posting makes it harder to keep up with more than one ROM.
jashsu said:
IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
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I agree, well put.
jashsu said:
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
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Good point as well.

Many closed treads

In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.

NEO130 said:
In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.
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I don't agree, since this forum is very large (2,385,084 members and 404,458 threads). To prevent it from cluttering, but also to keep the forum clean and easy to find the information you need I find it necessary to close and or move threads which are obsolete/duplicate and threads which are clearly opened without searching.
So I am glad we (Xperia subforums) have an active moderator who is keeping a close eye on the subforums.
I find that it does wonders for the clearness of the subforums!

Agreed, when I look for a solution for a problem, I want the [FIX] topic instead of dozens of 'My ... is broken, help meee!'-topics..

NEO130 said:
In the last time, we have many closed treads here. Some new user are asking something. The second answer is mostly: " Come on you don`t search, or something else. The third answer is from the mod: Closed Tread.
Sorry, but in the mean time, this is a german "kindergarten".
Do we have not so many space on the server, or why is this in the last time so often happened ? Let the tread open, and if someone is giving a answer, he can do that, and the other people can read or laugh.
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not many answers yet, what a shame...
ok, I'd like to add my point of view to be considered and commented on
the last months (nearly all of the time I'm a member here) the X1 forums got very little moderating activity, mostly because those moderators assigned to this part either got a new device and "moved" on and/or focused their activity on development/cooking
the little moderating that took place within that time happened when one of the other moderators "visited" here or were personally notified to interact on one behalf or the other
I'm and have been quite active especially on X1, trying to help, now on a somewhat larger scale, so it's small wonder moderating activity increased significantly after my nomination
in contrast to the last months this might appear a lot of interaction from me on behalf of the forum, in my opinion it's now on a reasonable/normal level
I'm doing nothing than abiding by and ensuring the forum rules, which I'm sure everyone here read at least once...
in case you think my actions unjustified, tell me about it
I've seen lots of threads opened on issues raised and successfully answered numerous times already, some even still on the same page as the new one
a lot of my previous posts derive from helping with other members questions whose answer I often had to research myself...which I did...and I then often wondered: when I'm able to find the solution (mostly within minutes) why didn't the one who opened that new thread find it him-/herself? no search? to cursory search? too lazy?...
this all adds up and we are not only talking about X1, it's all over the forum so it's not as limited as (only) talking about server capacity, we are especially talking about misleading search results, cluttered forums, untidiness, confusion, forum losing appeal to users... and all that's related
keeping threads open would/will/did lead to off-topic comments, adding to above mentioned problems
I like a good joke/funny comment as anyone here, but that's usually not dev/app/theme related and normally does not belong there (at least not on a noticeable scale)
if you are interested in that kind of threads/discussions visit forum general discussion and it's subs (like off-topic)
I also think you haven't been in a German kindergarten for some time, they have a good set of rules there, too, for the kids as well as for the grow-ups
so, comments/opinions/feedback pls
Mod edit: not dev related, moved to general

DK you said it all, and I completely agree.
A perfect example is what is happening in the Android development board for the Sony Ericsson X10. Without the mods moving and closing topics, it would become a clutter of useless threads making the good threads lost. Even now there are more threads moved or closed than open
Even your current post does not follow the guidelines as to how the title should look...
tnyynt said:
For questions, use:
[Q]description
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Things are surprisingly simple and straightforward here: pay attention, read, search and search again prior to asking/posting. Nobody wants to do someone else's research. Between the stickies on each board, forum rules, moderator's announcements and extremely helpful mods like DK, there really should be no confusion one
Likewise, any post I have seen made by DK have been polite, respectful and always points the user in the correct direction prior to closing threads.
So thank you to all mods for cleaning up the forums!
Considering this is XDA-Developers (a developer based community) I believe most users should stay silent (since they are not developers) unless it is helpful to the community. I myself personally really do not like sifting through threads asking the same questions that are answered it in the stickies
.

reading instead of asking
hei all!
first: i agree to dk and muo.
why?
why are we here? we use a fine peace of hardware and are unsatisfied with the software of SE and MS and we are more ore less tech geeks.
the original x1 with wm6.1 and panels does anything a phone has to do and much more.
but if you decide that is not enough and flash a custom rom (and to loose your warranty if you dont restore stock spl) is'nt it reasonable to learn sth about what you are doing? at least the different roms, the different ways of flashing.
i'm a "dumb user", i dont know much about cooking and to be honest im to lazy to do this but im so happy about the great work of all the devs here. i tried many roms in GER and WWE, in sense2.1 or 2.5, clean roms and others with lots of apps, i use uc and sashimi and this is my second post. why? because i read the great tutorials and use the search function and i found ALWAYS a solution for my problem.
a question like "i flashed R3AA013. why do i still have wm6.1?" is unnessesary.
to cut it short my opinion is: be willing to learn a little bit about what you are doing or leave your x1 as it is!
cheers!
(and sorry for my poor english...)

The best way to clear up user confusion is to post a link to a wiki at the top of the device forum. Closing threads doesn't answer any questions or make searches easier. It makes them more difficult as before you would have maybe a link to an old thread or some helpful search terms mixed into newbie questions, but instead you have a whole mess of unanswered closed questions and one answer thrown into that haystack.
Btw, "I, myself, personally..."? Are you kidding me? You may as well just say "I and me, and Muo.." if you want to be that ridiculously redundant.

Thx - That`s what I mean with this tread !!

sonus said:
The best way to clear up user confusion is to post a link to a wiki at the top of the device forum.
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It already is, the announcement at the top has multiple links including the wiki...
sonus said:
Closing threads doesn't answer any questions or make searches easier.
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Actually they do, when I see the "closed thread icon" I know to not go in there. Likewise, if there is a "moved thread icon" I know that it has nothing to do with the board I am in. Seems like that answers my questions of reading the thread or not.
Speaking of redundant and ridiculously...
sonus said:
Btw, "I, myself, personally..."? Are you kidding me? You may as well just say "I and me, and Muo.." if you want to be that ridiculously redundant.
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Not really, "I myself personally" is perfectly fine. Yes it is a bit redundant, and I apologize for making you read one extra word. Forget about sentence structure and stop trying to flame, there was no reason for that. Also if you are going to quote me, do it correctly without the commas. How you quoted me is worse than how I presented it in the first place.
.

Lobby for a change ....

I know I am gonna sound like a jerk, but I am a jerk most of the time, so what ..
I suggest that we refuse to answer Questions that are posted in the wrong Forum ...
The Stickies clearly state what to post where ...
If you have a question about an app, and it is not an app that has its own thread in "Themes and Apps" it Goes in "Q&A"
If you have a question about how to flash a ROM, it does not go in the ROM thread, that thread is for ROM developers to post their ROMs
If you have a question about a specific ROM it does NOT go in the Q&A it goes in the ROM thread or wherever that Chef wants you to post it ....
If you want to know how to install a Theme or a Mod, it goes in the Q&A , questions about a specific Theme or App it goes in the thread for them.
Now I know that the people that this actually pertains to will not even read this this post, so I leave it up to those that waste their time wading through senseless threads that are in the wrong place and constantly having to tell people to move things around, to decide to help police it..
We are a community, we cannot just say, "Let the Mods handle it..." There are way more of us than there are of them.
I could rant on this subject for hours but you get the point ....
Now not saying if it is the persons 1st or 2nd post that they should be pounced on, but should be nudged with whatever amount of force is needed to get them to understand.
The mods have enough problems to deal with, we should all be intelligent enough to, read the rules , read the stickies, and use some common sense ...
Thanks ....
Mods Please delete this if you feel it is over the top ..........
EDIT:
This really is a site wide issue not just picking on the LEO forum, but I am in this one 99.8925674% of the time, so figured I'd put my soapbox down here ...

While I agree with everything your saying Im not sure if ignoring the posts will do any good, they'll just end up posting again 20 minutes later asking why nobodys responding to them.........
I've not been around here all that long but I get the impression that this epidemic of repetitive questions and pointless threads is a fairly recent thing and is getting worse and worse...... No doubt this is due to so called "smartphones" being made more readily available to dumbasses, myself included.
The only reason I ever ended up visiting XDA was because I had a problem with my shiny new windows mobile and google directed me here as I'm sure it does to hundreds of people on a daily basis.
I dont really think that there is any sure way to reduce the amount of pointlessness thats occuring.
Perhaps a 24 waiting period between registering and being able to post might encourage those who turn up for the first time to search before posting.
Unfortunately we have to put up with the fact that 94.6% of the worlds populations are just dicks.............

conantroutman said:
While I agree with everything your saying Im not sure if ignoring the posts will do any good, they'll just end up posting again 20 minutes later asking why nobodys responding to them.........
I've not been around here all that long but I get the impression that this epidemic of repetitive questions and pointless threads is a fairly recent thing and is getting worse and worse...... No doubt this is due to so called "smartphones" being made more readily available to dumbasses, myself included.
The only reason I ever ended up visiting XDA was because I had a problem with my shiny new windows mobile and google directed me here as I'm sure it does to hundreds of people on a daily basis.
I dont really think that there is any sure way to reduce the amount of pointlessness thats occuring.
Perhaps a 24 waiting period between registering and being able to post might encourage those who turn up for the first time to search before posting.
Unfortunately we have to put up with the fact that 94.6% of the worlds populations are just dicks.............
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I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..

watcher64 said:
I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
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One reason we (and I refer to new folks like me) have a difficulty with this (well I do, any road up) is that the thread header, or whatever they're called are so full of guff.. unnecessary messing about with symbols and other distracting crapola. I for one am looking for another theme to replace my constantly crashing sense and am always lost.
Perhaps a plea for making the headers clearer would be necessary too

blakeboro said:
One reason we (and I refer to new folks like me) have a difficulty with this (well I do, any road up) is that the thread header, or whatever they're called are so full of guff.. unnecessary messing about with symbols and other distracting crapola. I for one am looking for another theme to replace my constantly crashing sense and am always lost.
Perhaps a plea for making the headers clearer would be necessary too
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I would not argue against that point at all .... Can't find it or even search for it , if it is unreadable in the first place ....

watcher64 said:
I know nothing may change, but I can always hope, I agree with the 94.6% thing fully ....
But if they keep posting the same question over and over THEN it does fall in the Mods domain as spamming , and the mods can handle it with legitimate reason.
I mean simple things, like posting in the wrong forum/thread , it is like walking into a bakery and asking them to change the oil in your car , I mean what kind of person does it take to do a bonehead move like that ...
Oh and I am not saying to really to ignore the posts, because people might learn if a few people hit their thread in the wrong place, and tell them they have the answers but will not answer it because it is in the wrong thread, I know that is being a ****, but , sometimes teaching means writing the lesson on a big stick and smacking them with it till they get the message ..
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Yeah that does sound fair enough...........
Ive just had a good laugh at the thought of somebody walking into a bakery and asking how to flash there HD2..........
@blakeboro - a lot of the thread titles actually give a pretty good indication of what they are about (once you get used to it), but your right some are just total gibberish, there are guidelines on how to title releases etc but as with most of the rules they tend to be ignored far too often.......

Let me throw in my $0.02 in here.
As watcher mentioned already, there are very few of us compared to the sheer volume of users that we get on a daily basis and it is very difficult for us to do everything we do, plus having to baby sit people who cannot read the rules.
The rules of the site are very simple and straight forward. In fact, Rule #1 is "Search before you post". Even if the title of the thread itself is misleading, you don't have to go through threads to find what you are looking for. The site does have a search engine, which may not be the best, but it gets the job done. Also, you have our friend Google...
Responding harshly to threads/posts with questions that are completely out of place may work (most times it doesn't though), but here is the approach that I have always used. Flaming the user takes you nowhere and tends to ignite flame wars as users get pissed with one another. Shortly after that, since this is a public forum, everyone and their grandmother believes that they are entitled to give their two cents/piece of mind... and that's when things begin to get ugly, which is why we have to get involved and in many cases, we (moderators) end up looking like bad guys because we don't allow user A to tell user B what he/she thinks of the situation. There have been many instances where users just flat out turn against mods, stating that we are on power trips and stuff like that, case which couldn't be further away from the truth.
Ignoring the posts doesn't really cut it either as it is very likely that the user in question will either bump his question or ask again. As much as we don't like it, it happens... a lot. So, if you have the time, it helps us tremendously when you report the posts, because we can move the post/thread to where the person may get help and not be flamed for it, which in turn avoids the flame war situation depicted above. It helps also if you don't post inflammatory comments in the post of the "Search you stupid n00b" line.
If you know the answer and feel like helping others, simply post the answer with an explanation that next time, he should post in the right section. Otherwise, just report it and we will move it.
FYI, this has been the case for XDA for as long as the site has been running. It happens more nowadays because our user base is on the rise.

@egzthunder1 I do agree with not flaming them, but at the same time a "Flame" is a relative term, we have seen threads blow up , just by suggesting they search, because their post is a couple of days old and nobody has the answer ...
So really I don't know what the answer is, I don't think anybody does, how do you "make" someone learn ...
I mean to use the analogy I used earlier, it is like going into a bakery shop to get your cars oil changed, if the person stopped and read the sign that mistake would not be made ...
The problem on forums I think is the anonymity of the internet/forum, people think they can shut their brain off, and since we don't know who they are we'll spoonfeed them just to shut them up ...
This does not make a good environment for anybody here, the Devs get bogged down with BS posts, the Users have to wade through countless posts to find what they are looking for.
So while it is not a perfect solution, while not ignoring their posts, waiting till they are in the right place or asked correctly/nicely, to answer them might start to train them, pavlov's dogs and all ....

I just reported quite a few in the themes and apps forum. I really don't see a way to stop it without posing an undue burden on the moderators.
You could for instance have all "new" post in the themes and apps forum have to be approved by a moderator.
Or perhaps have a question come up asking if this is a new theme, app, wallpaper, ringtone, question, request, etc. when someone clicks to post a "new" thread. This could even insert "[THEME]", "[APP]", "[WALLPAPERS]" into the thread title as most authors currently do and new question, request selections could go to the Q&A forums instead of posting in the apps forum.
The problem is the first way would burden down the moderators even more while the second would require some special programming.

I think that instead of just having the forum layout of the threads oldest to newest, replies to a specific thread be attached to that tread and to see them you have to expand them. Just sayin.

Phantoms said:
I just reported quite a few in the themes and apps forum. I really don't see a way to stop it without posing an undue burden on the moderators.
You could for instance have all "new" post in the themes and apps forum have to be approved by a moderator.
Or perhaps have a question come up asking if this is a new theme, app, wallpaper, ringtone, question, request, etc. when someone clicks to post a "new" thread. This could even insert "[THEME]", "[APP]", "[WALLPAPERS]" into the thread title as most authors currently do and new question, request selections could go to the Q&A forums instead of posting in the apps forum.
The problem is the first way would burden down the moderators even more while the second would require some special programming.
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Yeah. I counted 13+ that you reported. That's insane! Thanks for the help but unforunately I cannot do it since it's not my fora. I like your ideas... that is all but the "must approve post" one. There are currently 2,511,618 active members and it's growing on a daily basis. And the handful of moderators (only about 80 or so and 29 of them are device specific such as myself) have 434,244 threads to monitor as of this moment for the 84 different devices. So it's very difficult for us to continuously monitor half a million threads for 84+ devices with only 80 moderators. (ref stats)
Also keep in mind that because of this very limited amount of moderators to keep the site organized, clean and friendly it would be difficult and not to mention very time consuming to approve new threads each time and still be productive in the forums.
There is also the matter of urgancy.
I have come across more posts than I could count that someone has literally begged for immediate assistance. It could take hours or even days to approve the post for that member. We are trying to encourage people to use the site. That may only prove to be counter-productive.
The idea of a quick questionaire might help... but even I would have to admit that there have been times that I've seen a post that could be relavant to multiple forums (such as a question or statement about building roms, Q&A or development?) It's a tough call for even some of the most experienced members and may prove to be too much of a hassle. Oh and Watcher, this really should be in General since it's not actually pertaining to this particular device but to the forum as a whole. Even you mentioned this yourself in your original thread which only proves my point that there can be a black and white area as to where to post something.
So in the meantime just continue doing what your doing and they will be moved eventually. What I tend to do in my forums is move the thead in question and post a reason as to why I moved it. Sometimes send a warning to the OP stating that (s)he should review the forum rules about searching and post in the appropriate thread or else I won't just move it next time... I'll move and close it until he sends me a quote of forum rule #1 and give me at least three reasons as to why it is important to post in the correct section. In my opinion we should educate these members since most of them are Junior Members.
Which brings me to my idea. I have this crazy idea that for Junior Members ONLY should have to go through a CAPTCHA verification on a agreement of the rules before being able to post anything. That way if these members do post in the wrong section it gives us more grounds to take the appropriate action. It may also cut down on the SPAM that the site receives.
In any case, keep reporting the posts and we'll keep cleaning it up for ya.

Binary100100 said:
Which brings me to my idea. I have this crazy idea that for Junior Members ONLY should have to go through a CAPTCHA verification on a agreement of the rules before being able to post anything. That way if these members do post in the wrong section it gives us more grounds to take the appropriate action. It may also cut down on the SPAM that the site receives.
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Oh I like that idea, say for people under 50 posts have to use a CAPTCHA and maybe on that CAPTCHA , a reminder to search before posting and to re-read their post before submitting ...
I am sure that most of the people here that do the things we are talking about, would be just as annoyed if someone bugged them the same way with their chosen hobby.

Another suggestion, if we were able to modify the forum this much, would be to have buttons underneath the first post saying: "Use forum search!" or "repeated question!" - if say, 10+ people click the button, then an automatic reply is generated saying: "Please use the forum search for answers" etc.
(These could appear for a new member's first 10 posts etc)

We also have to realize that in the HD2 Leo forums, the Q&A forum was just recently added. So you have to change people's habits of posting those questions, request, etc. in the Themes and Apps forum. Along with that you have a ton of posts already in the Themes and Apps forum that will need to be moved to the Q&A forum as replies bring them back to the top of the Themes and Apps forum.

Binary100100 said:
Yeah. I counted 13+ that you reported. That's insane! Thanks for the help but unforunately I cannot do it since it's not my fora. I like your ideas... that is all but the "must approve post" one. There
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Yeah, reported about as many tonight. Just think what would happen if you didn't have to wait 1min between reports. Not really. I go through my regular routine of reading the new post in the themes and apps forum as usual. The ones that don't belong in that forum (questions, request, etc.) I open in separate tabs and report as I can while reading through the rest of the new post.
The "must approve" suggestion I knew would be to burdensome on moderators. On just new threads it's a lot of added work. I don't think whatever route is taken you have to worry about individual replies, just entire threads that are off topic. If you could find a way to automate the moving of improper "new" threads that would cut moderators work in half right there. That's where the suggestion for adding a selection when clicking "New Thread" of the type of thread (and automatically moving those in the wrong forum) came from. Still, some users would get wise to it, not care and click the wrong selection (App instead of Question) just so they could get their thread started in the wrong section.

Where are the moderators for this forum?

Alot of good information can be found in this forum - if you dig deep enough and have huge amount of time to spend on it. Because most of the posts are just crap. People saying "Yes, dito that. Will install tomorrow" or, nonsense as "thanks, appreciate that".
For Christ sake. Posts with private messages should not be public. That's why we have a private message function in most forums. Who's in charge in this forum? Keep all private information as private messages, and keep it OFF the forum. People who needs some important info on something involving mobile devices have to browse for hours before finding it - and it's mostly due to all nonsense crap within.
Normally, moderators do their job and clean up the forums from crap, but not here however. I don't know why though. Maybe there are no moderators in here
Believe me, no one really cares if some special person "will install it later" or whatever. IF the masses would care - a poll would is posted. In that case, all opinions are wanted and collected in a thread. That's OK since answers are wanted then. But if someone just wants to say "thanks" - please keep it as a private message, please please, so that all the poor readers don't have to browse through all the sh*t when looking to find some important info.
If there are moderators here - why aren't they doing their job?
If there ain't no moderators - please get some. I think this forum needs 10 or more, but then it could increase in quality tenfold or more.
Clean this up for Christ sake. Delete the nonsense. Increase quality. Make it worthy a visit, or even better, a search.

TBH, the search page is kinda useless as it's missing information on how to properly search the forums. in standard way, if you enter more than one word as search query, it will list all the forum entries where at least one word was found - utterly useless in most cases... making the search page easier for new users would probably help alot to get rid of double posts.

I think you partly make a valid point, but you just sound bitter and your poll is VERY biased. Why could it not just say "Yes" and "No"?
For that reason, I'm out of here and not taking part.

You know, I wanted to say the same thing for a long time. I'm also sad how low moderation we have here on SGS2 forums, it really makes me not want to take part of discussion. Like for example the arguing about forum manners in 2.3.4 leak root being available topic, it really should not be tolerated
I guess the main reason is simply lack of moderator staff - but I feel that sometimes none of the moderators even takes a look in general section for a whole day.
I'm not sure about their area of responsibility, but there are mods in our dev section...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App

The moderators on xda are not paid, so I for one don't expect them to sit at a computer all day and read every single post in every thread in every forum. There's a button on every single post for reporting inappropriate behaviour, so we, as the community, have a responsibility to let them know when something's wrong.
I've reported all sorts of things including spam, rascism, foul language, warez links and just general rude behaviour. Every single time I've done that, without fail, it has been dealt with in the best way possible.
I think you underestimate how much goes on in these forums, and the SGS2 forum is quiet compared to some of the others!
I think the mods deserve our thanks, not our disdain. If you want a better community then you do something about it.

I think this forum is normal. It has all the typical groups of posters. Undoubtedly, the newest most awesomest smartphone is gonna attract a ton of people and it will be almost impossible to stop all their threads and posts. I think the other members do a good job modertating the serious transgressions.
I would have liked to come here and instantly found the answers to all my questions, but I realize this is a complicated subject matter and the answers I seek might not even exist. There aren't definitive answers to a lot of questions. A lot is unknown or opinion based. And if there is an answer, there are usually multiple answers.
Personally, I don't mind the dynamic that leads to multiple threads on the same subject within the same hour. You can't stop the noob onslaught. Come back after it's not cool to be here and you'll find a completely different forum.
By the way, what were you searching for?

You can apply to be a moderator if you wish to .. Nice to start your first post of with a Bang
The way I see with the amount of posting that goes in XDA with thousands of members and hundreds of post it really will be hard to moderate, especially as SGS2 is the hottest selling phone right now and lot of activity going around it.
The search function is good but still sometimes its hard to find specific answers and then its much more easier just to create a post.
Unless of course If there is a wiki or something with all things related to the SGS2

johncmolyneux said:
the SGS2 forum is quiet compared to some of the others!
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tfn said:
You can apply to be a moderator if you wish to .. Nice to start your first post of with a Bang
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Seriously? With 1 post and 0 thanks that means you've contributed nothing. And you first post is a ***** that its too hard for you to find things. A bit selfish, no? Forums aren't designed to be your personal wiki. Something tells me you're not going to make a lot of friends here.