Related
When the G1 came out it was the only Android powered device so modding it worked for everybody. And it was just one brand, HTC, so this forum was a one stop destination for modding our phone.
However, things have changed, now there are multiple phone with incompatible hardware from different manufacturers. Now a custom rom made for the G1, won't work on a DROID for example and vise versa. This complicates things quite a bit.
Right now Cyanogen mods are the best thing for our G1 and maybe the best thing for Android as a whole. I'm used to the build in tether capability and apps to SD and compcace and the other perks of a modded rom. But if I wanted to upgrade my phone, I would lose it all.
There are no Cyanogen mod for anything other than G1 and myTouch phones as far as I know and if I were to upgrade to DROID, I would lose root, lose tether, lose apps to SD, lose everything about my phone that makes it my phone.
Everything I wrote may not be facts, I don't really know what goes on at other forums, but I know that we don't have roms build to run on the DROID and we don't have them built to run on the HERO hardware, it's all for G1 and myTouch, and it seems to me that if I don't ha.ve on of those phones, I lose everything.
I do understand that this forum is for HTC devices which DROID and a few other's are not which is why I don't see homebrew for them. Is there a another website similar to this that supports all Android hardware?
These are thoughts that have been running through my head lately. If I am totally wrong here, please let me know.
I would say check out websites such as androidcommunity.com, androidandme.com, phandroid.com. The developers might not be on there but you can probably find links to where there are custom roms for the phones.
And you are right about different phones having different development oppurtunities. I thought about this today and realized that the next android phone I get not only has to be what I want but also be a popular phone that will attract developers such as cyan, maxisma, jac, manup and everyone else. My best guess and hope is that it will be a snapdragon android handset, hopefully for T-Mobile USA.
What we'll end up having to do is pick our phones based on it's community support and what kind of home brew is available for it.
The reason I love the G1 is the fact that it's rooted and has a large community. This phone is the best on the market, all things considered, because the rooted OS allows so much.
If and when the Droid is rooted, when a GSM version is released, and when it has T-Mo's 3G bands, I will move to it. But all those may not happen for another year or more. If you haven't played with a Droid yet, do so. Incredible speed and the best screen I have ever seen on a phone. Till then, G1 all the way.
The man is right, we have a problem on the dev side.
I think though, once 2.0 gets standard, we'll only need root for a few things like tethering and setting the CPU clock. Really cyanogen's only advantage is optimization, but once 2.0 and snapdragon rolls around, who cares? We'll always want to tinker, but it won't eclipse getting the phone you want.
The big problems right now are that the market isn't getting what it needs. Nothing compares to the HTC widgets, yet instead of cloning them on the market, we try and run a ROM that doesn't even work on our phones! We still don't have BT in Hero and it may just never happen.
2.0 will be what we need as a base, but the market needs our help now.
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks but this thread is not about who has the best rom.
The point is, when you get a new Android phone, your rom of choice won't be available for it. So what do you do?
alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we all get it already, YOU are dwang's biggest fan
But, to stay on topic. My G1 is the first HTC device I've ever owned and I've only discovered XDA since I've had it, and I think that because of the community involvement here and the custom roms that have come out, I will definitely lean towards another HTC phone when I look for my next upgrade, and it will definately be an android phone.
Also another thing to look at is the availability of the phones that are out to actual dev's. Unless people are donating phones, I doubt everyone can just run out and pick up all the latest devices, and network restrictions/preferences that come along with them.
I think the easiest solution is as follows:
1. Find the dev you like best.
2. Find the phone you like best.
3. Buy phone you like best.
4. Buy/Create a donate link to get said dev the same phone.
Assuming said dev doesnt turn around and craigslist the phone you bought him/her, you have (hopefully) ensured said dev will migrate and develop on your favorite hardware.
Not the best solution but probably the most reliable.
alec.baldwin said:
I'd contest the cyanogen are the best rom's.. maybe for someoen who wants to flash an upgrade every 3 days.. but for the majority of users.. Dwang is the way to go. Lengthy discussion about this, is over here..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seriously dude, are you going to diss me in every thread? What do you even contribute to this community? I've not received any patches or even logs of the "problems" you claim.
cyanogen said:
Seriously dude, are you going to diss me in every thread? What do you even contribute to this community? I've not received any patches or even logs of the "problems" you claim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For real.
Alec, you're like the little annoying brother that no one wants to be around.
Grow up, let your balls drop, and enjoy your phone, your life, and whatever rom you want.
But, you don't have to go around dissing well-respected devs.
The Droid hasn't been out long enough for a community to gather around it. Many of the Android big names are waiting to get GSM versions before tinkering.
Also, remember that the HTC Dream was in circulation well before it launched last year. The Android development phone is identical to the Dream, with the only difference being some swish art on the back cover. The hardware and software were free-flowing long before it landed in our hands. In contrast, the Droid was a much more secretive launch; we've only just got Eclair source code, and the SDK was kept under wraps by a non-disclosure agreement (probably to conceal the nuclear bomb that is Google Maps Navigation).
I find the cracking of the Droid to be inevitable. The poor thing is going to be broken just as much as our Dreams were. Just give it time.
As for ROMs being available over a span of phones, I'm not sure that's even a good idea. Android variants like XROM, cyanogenmod, The Dude's ROM, yadda yadda... they're all about maximising the capabilities of the Dream. Not the Droid, the Dream. Adding in features that the hardware can support, changing CPU frequencies, Apps2SD, all that jazz. Droid ROMs will be built around adding in core features, like Apps2SD, and whatever else the Droid has tucked away. Likewise, speed optimisations may not be portable between phones, as what gives the Dream a boost may hinder the Droid.
For me, features of a ROM are not the best part of homebrew Android builds. The best part is being able to upgrade your phone outside of the carrier's say-so. If T-mobile have no plans to push Eclair to Dreams, I will install it myself. I am not tied down by the say-so of a room full of suits three thousand miles away. If T-mobile don't include an app that I like, such as the IM app or the Amazon MP3 store (which T-mobile UK don't), I can get ROMs with them myself. If a carrier would rather I didn't tether without paying for my bandwidth twice, I can do it anyway, so long as I'm not an idiot.
You may have guessed that I have a very dim view of cell carriers.
With root, we are free to do as we like. This is the real killer feature of homebrew, and the Droid will benefit from it too.
Anyway...
dwang said:
I want to acknowledge cyanogen, daproy, cyrowski, loccy, and alla for their contributions to the android community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems dwang himself has a much higher opinion of the man than a certain other someone.
AthlonBoy said:
The Droid hasn't been out long enough for a community to gather around it. Many of the Android big names are waiting to get GSM versions before tinkering.
Also, remember that the HTC Dream was in circulation well before it launched last year. The Android development phone is identical to the Dream, with the only difference being some swish art on the back cover. The hardware and software were free-flowing long before it landed in our hands. In contrast, the Droid was a much more secretive launch; we've only just got Eclair source code, and the SDK was kept under wraps by a non-disclosure agreement (probably to conceal the nuclear bomb that is Google Maps Navigation).
I find the cracking of the Droid to be inevitable. The poor thing is going to be broken just as much as our Dreams were. Just give it time.
As for ROMs being available over a span of phones, I'm not sure that's even a good idea. Android variants like XROM, cyanogenmod, The Dude's ROM, yadda yadda... they're all about maximising the capabilities of the Dream. Not the Droid, the Dream. Adding in features that the hardware can support, changing CPU frequencies, Apps2SD, all that jazz. Droid ROMs will be built around adding in core features, like Apps2SD, and whatever else the Droid has tucked away. Likewise, speed optimisations may not be portable between phones, as what gives the Dream a boost may hinder the Droid.
For me, features of a ROM are not the best part of homebrew Android builds. The best part is being able to upgrade your phone outside of the carrier's say-so. If T-mobile have no plans to push Eclair to Dreams, I will install it myself. I am not tied down by the say-so of a room full of suits three thousand miles away. If T-mobile don't include an app that I like, such as the IM app or the Amazon MP3 store (which T-mobile UK don't), I can get ROMs with them myself. If a carrier would rather I didn't tether without paying for my bandwidth twice, I can do it anyway, so long as I'm not an idiot.
You may have guessed that I have a very dim view of cell carriers.
With root, we are free to do as we like. This is the real killer feature of homebrew, and the Droid will benefit from it too.
Anyway...
It seems dwang himself has a much higher opinion of the man than a certain other someone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You seem to have almost got my point but not quite. Of coarse DOID doesn't need Cyanogen MOD specifically. But would you buy an Android phone if there weren't a mod that lets it do the things that we are used to and have only become available by modding? Apps to SD, tethering, themeing?
Sure DROID might get all these things though a custom rom but we won't see it on this website. The problem is that things will get too spread out and hard to find with all these new hardware options.
What would be nice is a rom that works on nearly every Android device that just adds root access to the phone and some basic universal packages like A2SD and tethering etc. That way you can buy any Android device you want and still have these basic privileges.
Do you think something like that would be possible?
Pinesal said:
You seem to have almost got my point but not quite. Of coarse DOID doesn't need Cyanogen MOD specifically. But would you buy an Android phone if there weren't a mod that lets it do the things that we are used to and have only become available by modding? Apps to SD, tethering, themeing?
Sure DROID might get all these things though a custom rom but we won't see it on this website. The problem is that things will get too spread out and hard to find with all these new hardware options.
What would be nice is a rom that works on nearly every Android device that just adds root access to the phone and some basic universal packages like A2SD and tethering etc. That way you can buy any Android device you want and still have these basic privileges.
Do you think something like that would be possible?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beats me, man. I'm not a developer. But I think it's unlikely.
For the DROID (and other/future android phones) is Apps2SD really necessary? The only reason why we need it on our phones is because of the pathetic amount of internal space the G1 has, the same goes for Swap Partitions etc.
As long as people buy the phone there is always going to be someone who is smart enough to work on rooting it IMO. And even without root what do you really lose? The only things I think I would really miss are Wireless Tether and Bluetooth File Transfer (Which I THINK is in 2.0 anyway).
I'm not buying a new phone until it's rooted and Cyanogen has it too.
My biggest requirement for any android phone..and any cell phone in general is the keyboard. I bought the G1 because of the keyboard and lucked out with the high number of developers available for it. I didn't find this place for several months during the time when the grandfather of the G1 mod program was still active =) JF!. I enjoyed all the modding and updating because I personally feel that the phone is, well mine. And I should be able to do what ever I want with it. I had picked up the V3C Razer because it could play MP3's. I get it home and then discover that the Verizon Nazi's completely locked down that feature so you where forced to use their service at an additional cost. Of course the motorola dev/repair/store software allowed us to get in a enable the various features that Verizon required to be locked. I also love the Aps2sd. No matter what phone you have, the internal memory will never be enough. And with the Cliq supporting 32gig sd cards, a full keyboard, and NOT verizon was enough for me. I'm patient and confident it will be rooted eventually. If not, I still have my G1 and I still do Cyanogen updates and play around with it. And when my contract is up with Tmob(renewed for the Cliq), I'll see who has the next most popular rooted phone with a keyboard and switch over. I just really hate people telling me how to use a device I own. Its like going to McDonalds and having them dictate what condiments to put on my BigMac and Fries, and then telling me I can only eat it a certain way and which hand to use. If Cyanogen was down with the Cliq, or interested in it. I may be willing to ship him my phone to see what he can come up with.
As far as a universal O/S for all phones, isn't that just the core Android software with specific drivers provided by each manufacturer and custom UI? There should be a way to make 1 O/S for all android phones, then have update packs with the drivers and UI enhancements and add-ons for each android phone released? Not sure of the SPL locks though. Thats a bit beyond me. But i wouldn't think it would be to hard to run Cyanogen on the Cliq or droid provided the correct drivers and such where bundled with it. Kind of like slipstreaming a service pack into a bootleg Windows OS . Each phone eventually has to release the source code which contains the drivers for that phone. Thats how we get the Cliq's OS onto the G1, should work the other way around too. Sounds easy, but Cyanogen's Rom should run on my Cliq, provided the drivers are slipstreamed into it for the Cliq...right? Only problem is root.. :/ hehehe
and there he flames again...alec.baldwin, no one has the problems you have with cyanogen's latest. actually, lets delve into this...what exactly are your "problems" with 4.2.5? PLEASE, answer this question so cyanogen can dutifully fix the "problems" you are having.
You might check out some of the Q/A threads to first learn how to properly flash cyanogen's ROM. It is slightly different than Dwang's because Cyanogen uses the legal method. In fact, check out www.cyanogenmod.com and you might find a ton of useful info on getting cm to work on your phone.
Best of Luck,
njuncos
P.S. Cyanogen, mad props on once again reaching over a million thread views on your latest. Now you own 3 of the top 4 most viewed threads of all time in Dream Android Development!
I rooted today and wanted to spread the word on the benefits of rooting. If you wait till you complete your one-year-warranty you will be missing out on the cutting-edge mods, tweaks & bugfixes that are releasing now. After a year there will be a better phone (N2?) available and development for the N1 will be slow/reduced.
Since I'm new to the rooted world please feel free to provide points I missed and I'll update this list (i.e. this is a work in progress). thanks.
Pros:
Complete access to your superphone. (essentially a linux box)
USB tether, WIFI tether. (I'm posting this right now via wifi tether )
Ability to run applications that require root. (N1 torch, Trackball color, startup disable, apps2sd)
Himem kernel. (400MB RAM compared to 212 MB stock)
Option to install apps on the SD card via A2SD (apps2sd)
Ability to theme your phone, change the kernel, Replace apps with modded versions, install bugfixes yourself
Possibility to include features (FM, higher res videos, divx etc) from the Desire/legend/other phones. These will probably NEVER be officially released for the N1.
Ability to change the kernel. With Undevolting, Overclocking, AVS, CPU throttling (SetCPU) etc; you can aim for a faster speed or longer standby battery life.
Cons:
Voided Warranty (there are cases where you still get service though)
No official OTA updates. (you get them a few hours late, or months earlier )
Nice list!
I think the thing that prevents people from rooting is voiding their warranty. I honestly believe that just stops them in their tracks (along with noobs thinking they lose OTA features). If it weren't for the loss in warranty, I believe people would root in a quick second..
Pretty sure we already know.
I applaud your effort, though.
Carloswithac said:
Pretty sure we already know.
I applaud your effort, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...especially considering many of us have been fooling around with Android since the G1, and there are already numerous threads about rooting, or why to root, or the pros of rooting, or if rooting will void the warranty. Ugh. This forum is filling up with crap threads quick.
uansari1 said:
...especially considering many of us have been fooling around with Android since the G1, and there are already numerous threads about rooting, or why to root, or the pros of rooting, or if rooting will void the warranty. Ugh. This forum is filling up with crap threads quick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually applaud this thread.
I was ready to come in here all PISSED off at yet ANOTHER thread asking "like, oh m ygod, convince meeeee to root plezzzzzzzzz"
Thank you for not being that type of thread.
I will put the shotgun down now.
uansari1 said:
...especially considering many of us have been fooling around with Android since the G1, and there are already numerous threads about rooting, or why to root, or the pros of rooting, or if rooting will void the warranty. Ugh. This forum is filling up with crap threads quick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed... it kills me... i think users should have to get a G1 first... brick it, get a new one... learn from their mistakes, and then graduate to the Nexus One after figuring out the basics of Android... this forum is turning into the G1 junk-pile all over again
palosjr said:
agreed... it kills me... i think users should have to get a G1 first... brick it, get a new one... learn from their mistakes, and then graduate to the Nexus One after figuring out the basics of Android... this forum is turning into the G1 junk-pile all over again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or we could act in the spirit of forum participation and pass on wisdom so that the community as a whole can grow, rather than everyone starting at year 0.
A mod should just sticky this thread and maybe people will stop making new ones asking why they should root
Bump for the lazy asshats unwilling to search
liam.lah said:
Or we could act in the spirit of forum participation and pass on wisdom so that the community as a whole can grow, rather than everyone starting at year 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What a great thought. +1
The 2 cons are not really important for me:
-No warranty in Lebanon anyway
-Updated ROMs are uploaded by kind people here and there
Eclair~ said:
Nice list!
I think the thing that prevents people from rooting is voiding their warranty. I honestly believe that just stops them in their tracks (along with noobs thinking they lose OTA features). If it weren't for the loss in warranty, I believe people would root in a quick second..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this, I hate the fact that it voids the warranty...*WHYYYY*
haha....
hopefully there will be a method soon where we can root without voiding the warranty
uansari1 said:
...especially considering many of us have been fooling around with Android since the G1, and there are already numerous threads about rooting, or why to root, or the pros of rooting, or if rooting will void the warranty. Ugh. This forum is filling up with crap threads quick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
palosjr said:
agreed... it kills me... i think users should have to get a G1 first... brick it, get a new one... learn from their mistakes, and then graduate to the Nexus One after figuring out the basics of Android... this forum is turning into the G1 junk-pile all over again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So funny to see these guys who registered here not too long ago spout off this nonsense. Get over yourselves. The OP was only trying to help.
Another thing missing is, most of the custom roms having problems, either some have issues with the camera or bluetooth, or stability. I would hope that would be added to the list of why not to root.
When you encourage everyone to root , you obviously understand most of your viewers are going to be noobs, who will root and install the custom OS's and get upset why doesnt the thing work as it was suppose to, unlike you guys who change custom roms every other minute as a hobby most of us beginners(rooting) might not have the patience/time in hand to do so.
ajwho said:
So funny to see these guys who registered here not too long ago spout off this nonsense. Get over yourselves. The OP was only trying to help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup posters like that are the ones who are going to transform our community into an Apple-like environment. Elitist snobs who pounce on anyone who doesn't know what they do. Case in point, take palosjr. Reminds me of a typical Apple-fanboy douche bag with that kind of response.
Get off your freaking high horses, if you don't want to help then don't respond at all.
There might also be a few people holding out for Froyo to see what it offers.
+1 for adding that custom ROMs can be buggy or unfinished as a con... though the stock ROM isn't flawless either I guess.
Warranty
britoso said:
I rooted today and wanted to spread the word on the benefits of rooting. If you wait till you complete your one-year-warranty you will be missing out on the cutting-edge mods, tweaks & bugfixes that are releasing now. After a year there will be a better phone (N2?) available and development for the N1 will be slow/reduced.
Since I'm new to the rooted world please feel free to provide points I missed and I'll update this list (i.e. this is a work in progress). thanks.
Pros:
Complete access to your superphone. (essentially a linux box)
USB tether, WIFI tether. (I'm posting this right now via wifi tether )
Ability to run applications that require root. (N1 torch, Trackball color, startup disable, apps2sd)
Himem kernel. (400MB RAM compared to 212 MB stock)
Option to install apps on the SD card via A2SD (apps2sd)
Ability to theme your phone, change the kernel, Replace apps with modded versions, install bugfixes yourself
Possibility to include features (FM, higher res videos, divx etc) from the Desire/legend/other phones. These will probably NEVER be officially released for the N1.
Cons:
Voided Warranty (there are cases where you still get service though)
No official OTA updates. (you get them a few hours late, or months earlier )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nexus One is the first phone I've owned could not be flashed back to factory stock state after rooting. My HTC Magic could be flashed back to out-of-the-box state in 5 minutes. My Acer Liquid can be returned to 100% stock in 5 minutes. But the Nexus One? It's got that white padlock at the bottom of the screen indicating you're on your own. That does make one stop and think for moment.
But only a moment.
I waited a week before unlocking the bootloader. That was to give the phone time to fail if it was going to. My experience with hardware is that it either fails quickly....or not. In my case, not.
CM v5.0.6 is not to be missed.
linuxluver said:
Nexus One is the first phone I've owned could not be flashed back to factory stock state after rooting. My HTC Magic could be flashed back to out-of-the-box state in 5 minutes. My Acer Liquid can be returned to 100% stock in 5 minutes. But the Nexus One? It's got that white padlock at the bottom of the screen indicating you're on your own. That does make one stop and think for moment.
But only a moment.
I waited a week before unlocking the bootloader. That was to give the phone time to fail if it was going to. My experience with hardware is that it either fails quickly....or not. In my case, not.
CM v5.0.6 is not to be missed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hah I did the same, only waited a week then I rooted. I got the Nexus One about two weeks ago and love it!
I think some other PROS would be better battery life and OC ability with kernels and ROMse. Using IntersecRaven's kernel I get about 15 extra hours and I am a moderate to heavy user after the 24/7 heavy usage when I got my phone initially.
Plus the car dock is awesome--personal PRO for me
Wow so much hate for someone who's trying to help the community. Chill out ppl.
PrawnPoBoy said:
+1 for adding that custom ROMs can be buggy or unfinished as a con... though the stock ROM isn't flawless either I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Technically, rooting is completely separate from installing a custom ROM, so the buggyness of ROMs installed AFTER rooting (if you choose to do so) can't be counted as a con, since you can root and not install any custom ROM.
READ YOUR HOMEWORK PEOPLE http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/06...kers-with-legal-action-for-distributing-roms/
I guess I know what i'll be downloading all day till I got work
That's for Windows Mobile.
hTC can't stop anyone distributing AOSP ROMs, but they could throw the hammer down on distributing their Sense ROMS.
Because of all that nonsense (no pun intended ), I've commited myself to getting this. I'll be more than satisfied.
wcdisciple said:
Because of all that nonsense (no pun intended ), I've commited myself to getting this. I'll be more than satisfied.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, i think you're not getting tired of emphasise how good apple is. Please don't take it offensive, but why are you in this forum if you will buy / have bought an iPhone?
HTC is only one company of many building phones with Android. Whether you like Sense or not is your decision. G1 and MT3G (with google) were never intended to run with Sense. And no one can sue us for using AOSP ROM's. So i have no problem with it compared to apple, who will preselect the software for you...
Jailbreaking the iPhone isn't legal by the way...
PS: don't want to start an Apple/Android war, but leaving one company suing others for another company suing people since years and taking it for the reason why, seems a bit curious to me...
hudl said:
Man, i think you're not getting tired of emphasise how good apple is. Please don't take it offensive, but why are you in this forum if you will buy / have bought an iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's been on a rampage with it.
On a better note: I don't think this will stop ROM development. Didn't xda go through the same thing, but HTC didn't care about the actual developed ROMs?
Edit: Can't find anything to support that. :/ Remember reading it somewhere - might have been bs, but I swear it was on xda news.
HTC threatens handset hackers with legal action - WORST MISTAKE EVER
HTC is seriously making a mistake with that one.
Ive only been satisfied with my purchase of anything they have come with AFTER flashing a Rom into it.
If this continues I promise you they will regret it.
They will lose customers that WILL choose to go to other manufacturers.
The Devs and all who create on a constant basis are not hackers.
They innovate to make HTC a better phone than the competitors because of the work that are done by these fine people.
legend221 said:
HTC is seriously making a mistake with that one.
Ive only been satisfied with my purchase of anything they have come with AFTER flashing a Rom into it.
If this continues I promise you they will regret it.
They will lose customers that WILL choose to go to other manufacturers.
The Devs and all who create on a constant basis are not hackers.
They innovate to make HTC a better phone than the competitors because of the work that are done by these fine people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they didn't take it down because of them being custom ROMs. They were all just the basic stock ROMs that came with the phone. Honestly, there's not much of a difference as both custom and stock contain IP. However, I think they would've taken down xda a long time ago if they were worried about custom ROMs.
r3s-rt said:
Honestly, there's not much of a difference as both custom and stock contain IP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a HUGE difference between stock and Custom Rom, anyone that has ever flashed a Rom will tell you this.
r3s-rt said:
However, I think they would've taken down xda a long time ago if they were worried about custom ROMs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A similar C&D almost stopped the progression of a certain legendary Dev on the android scene.
Luckily, there was a workaround and everyone was happy flashing and seeing for themselves how much better our phones have been on a customized, fast and stable Rom.
legend221 said:
There is a HUGE difference between stock and Custom Rom, anyone that has ever flashed a Rom will tell you this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you serious? So you're telling me all HTC widgets involved in a sense ROM aren't IP? Or Google Apps included in most ROMs aren't IP? Google Maps? Market? Anything? That's actually pretty funny. No THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between a stock ROM and a custom ROM on the IP subject with the exception of JUST a few. Like.... 2 or 3? Do you even know what intellectual property is?
A similar C&D almost stopped the progression of a certain legendary Dev on the android scene.
Luckily, there was a workaround and everyone was happy flashing and seeing for themselves how much better our phones have been on a customized, fast and stable Rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And no, the similar C&D did NOT almost stop ROM development. If that was the case, NO ROM would come with Google Apps included. However, they DO, and are they are NOT getting C&Ds. If you think Google isn't looking at XDA to see what's happening, you need to start thinking a bit more.
Edit: Also, not every ROM is based off of cyanogen. While there are A LOT that are, not ALL are.
r3s-rt said:
Are you serious? So you're telling me all HTC widgets involved in a sense ROM aren't IP? Or Google Apps included in most ROMs aren't IP? Google Maps? Market? Anything? That's actually pretty funny. No THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between a stock ROM and a custom ROM on the IP subject with the exception of JUST a few. Like.... 2 or 3? Do you even know what intellectual property is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not everyone even cares about widgets. I only use the calendar one for example. Widgets are not the issue, we are talking about Roms overall because if HTC starts implementing a stricter enforcement of people not having the ability to use or host the Rom of their choice and preventing Devs to freely distribute their work then we are all held mercy to whatever HTC has pre-installed from the factory. A major FAIL for them.
r3s-rt said:
And no, the similar C&D did NOT almost stop ROM development. If that was the case, NO ROM would come with Google Apps included. However, they DO, and are they are NOT getting C&Ds. If you think Google isn't looking at XDA to see what's happening, you need to start thinking a bit more.
Edit: Also, not every ROM is based off of cyanogen. While there are A LOT that are, not ALL are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google knows its in their best interest to keep letting everyone that wants to flash a custom Rom. Some people buy specific phones (the past phones of mine as well) only if they are rooted or can install a custom SPL and flash their flavor of a Rom. The Cyanogen reference was an example not for every case, we are aware of the Windows Mobile, etc sections of xda.
legend221 said:
Not everyone even cares about widgets. I only use the calendar one for example. Widgets are not the issue, we are talking about Roms overall because if HTC starts implementing a stricter enforcement of people not having the ability to use or host the Rom of their choice and preventing Devs to freely distribute their work then we are all held mercy to whatever HTC has pre-installed from the factory. A major FAIL for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're not continuing what you originally said. You said there's a huge difference between a custom ROM and a stock ROM. Now, this statement should have been based on IP terms, as this is clearly what the topic is supposed to be about. My point is that IP is still included in any ROM. It doesn't matter what you use - that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. They clearly are not enforcing all little bits of IP. If that was the case, as I've said multiple times, xda wouldn't be here right now. HTC is WELL AWARE along with Microsoft and Google of what goes on here. I promise you they pay once lucky bastard to sit here and probe this site, along with others, all day everyday and flag anything they see unfit. The main thing they seem to not like is ROM libraries. That's just from my experience.
To sum this up" We are NOT at mercy of what is pre-installed from factory or they would have sent out much more C&D letters much sooner than this. XDA has over 2 MILLION users. That's all I'm saying.
Google knows its in their best interest to keep letting everyone that wants to flash a custom Rom. Some people buy specific phones (the past phones of mine as well) only if they are rooted or can install a custom SPL and flash their flavor of a Rom. The Cyanogen reference was an example not for every case, we are aware of the Windows Mobile, etc sections of xda.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best interest? Are you serious, bro? Android is marketed as an open-source platform. That's not in their "best interest." It's in their intents! The unrootable is because of cell phone carriers! Guess what?! The Dream came out as a Development phone! The Google ION (more commonly the myTouch 3g)? Development phone! The cyanogenmod reference was taken for what it was - an C&D from GOOGLE! NOT HTC!
r3s-rt said:
You're not continuing what you originally said. You said there's a huge difference between a custom ROM and a stock ROM. Now, this statement should have been based on IP terms, as this is clearly what the topic is supposed to be about. My point is that IP is still included in any ROM. It doesn't matter what you use - that is completely irrelevant to the subject matter. They clearly are not enforcing all little bits of IP. If that was the case, as I've said multiple times, xda wouldn't be here right now. HTC is WELL AWARE along with Microsoft and Google of what goes on here. I promise you they pay once lucky bastard to sit here and probe this site, along with others, all day everyday and flag anything they see unfit. The main thing they seem to not like is ROM libraries. That's just from my experience.
To sum this up" We are NOT at mercy of what is pre-installed from factory or they would have sent out much more C&D letters much sooner than this. XDA has over 2 MILLION users. That's all I'm saying.
Best interest? Are you serious, bro? Android is marketed as an open-source platform. That's not in their "best interest." It's in their intents! The unrootable is because of cell phone carriers! Guess what?! The Dream came out as a Development phone! The Google ION (more commonly the myTouch 3g)? Development phone! The cyanogenmod reference was taken for what it was - an C&D from GOOGLE! NOT HTC!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for giving that one guy the heads up on what goes on and what doesnt go on around here if he indeed does exist. If theres anything we dont need is anyone giving them more fuel to thier fire.
No one said the C&D came from HTC, seeing as you are a reader on xda I knew I didnt have to explain this to you. hahaha. It is in Google's best interest to let the Devs continue thier greatness because guess what many would jump ship to Windows Mobile devices or other OS including the iPhone even though there are not Roms for it I believe. If Android Development was not allowed to continue, at least most people would stop buying Android powered phones I believe.
Yawn........ time for bed now.
Why are you all under the assumption that the majority of HTC sales all run off of custom firmware? Do you really believe that sales are going to be effected that much because of HTC's decision?
legend221 said:
No one said the C&D came from HTC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you even read the article? If you are referring to the one cyanogen got, I never said it did. Seeing as you are just a reader (not) I didn't have to explain this to you. But I did. Please, if you're going to try and get a point across, respect me enough to actually read what I said.
legend221 said:
Thanks for giving that one guy the heads up on what goes on and what doesnt go on around here if he indeed does exist. If theres anything we dont need is anyone giving them more fuel to thier fire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had to edit this is. Really? Have you been snorting cocaine or something? That's pretty damn paranoid. If you don't think that happens, you just need to get off the internet as that's just basic knowledge. If you were HTC, would you not watch us? If you wouldn't - stay out of sales forever.
Binary100100 said:
Why are you all under the assumption that the majority of HTC sales all run off of custom firmware? Do you really believe that sales are going to be effected that much because of HTC's decision?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not under that assumption; I take you include me in the all. I just stated that at least this won't affect custom ROMs and he went on about how custom ROMs are so different and don't contain IP. That's what I've been trying to get across in all my posts. And no, I don't think their sales will be affected .
r3s-rt said:
Did you even read the article? If you are referring to the one cyanogen got, I never said it did. Seeing as you are just a reader (not) I didn't have to explain this to you. But I did. Please, if you're going to try and get a point across, respect me enough to actually read what I said.
I had to edit this is. Really? Have you been snorting cocaine or something? That's pretty damn paranoid. If you don't think that happens, you just need to get off the internet as that's just basic knowledge. If you were HTC, would you not watch us? If you wouldn't - stay out of sales forever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're still on what I said?
Get over it and realize not everyone is going to agree with you or your thoughts.
The one on drugs is YOU, damn get out of the forums and do something else with your time man. hahaha
That's why its a forum and NOT your personal website.
legend221 said:
You're still on what I said?
Get over it and realize not everyone is going to agree with you or your thoughts.
The one on drugs is YOU, damn get out of the forums and do something else with your time man. hahaha
That's why its a forum and NOT your personal website.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any one with intelligence will tell you that 90% of custom ROMs contain IP. The fact that you are swearing up and down that they don't is just.... stupid.
r3s-rt said:
Any one with intelligence will tell you that 90% of custom ROMs contain IP. The fact that you are swearing up and down that they don't is just.... stupid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The fact of the matter is that without proprietary IP, you can't even start the thing up. There is more IP than just widgets, launchers, and apps... there are DRIVERS and other such buried nonsense.
SOME of this IP *IS* distributed, have a look at developer.htc.com -- HTC eventually relented and opened their kernel modifications since they were committing a GPL violation, but there is other stuff on that page that is being distributed that IS proprietary IP, specifically, the "HTC Proprietary Binaries for ADP1". And those binaries don't even include all the proprietary binaries needed to make full use of the phone, such as the GPU drivers and the video decoder drivers.
THANKFULLY, the phone's owner IS licensed to use all of those binaries, so they can just keep them. Note that they're also included in the FULL SYSTEM IMAGES that HTC ITSELF distributed from developer.htc.com.
*** and that is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the android platform and wimo.... the fact that HTC distributes ***all*** of the proprietary binaries straight from their website. It means that it ***IS*** possible to generate fully AOSP (but non-functional) system images, and the USER can combine them with the binaries provided by HTC to make a working system.
From what I've seen, HTC REALLY DOESN'T CARE and/or actually WANTS users to build custom roms for their phones. They send out the cease and desist order for distribution of wimo roms, PROBABLY in accordance with MS's demands. MS probably said to them -- "listen, you either try to put a lid on piracy or we're going to stop sending you MSTRASH." HTC distributes GOOGLE apps in the roms on their website because THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.
lbcoder said:
The fact of the matter is that without proprietary IP, you can't even start the thing up. There is more IP than just widgets, launchers, and apps... there are DRIVERS and other such buried nonsense.
SOME of this IP *IS* distributed, have a look at developer.htc.com -- HTC eventually relented and opened their kernel modifications since they were committing a GPL violation, but there is other stuff on that page that is being distributed that IS proprietary IP, specifically, the "HTC Proprietary Binaries for ADP1". And those binaries don't even include all the proprietary binaries needed to make full use of the phone, such as the GPU drivers and the video decoder drivers.
THANKFULLY, the phone's owner IS licensed to use all of those binaries, so they can just keep them. Note that they're also included in the FULL SYSTEM IMAGES that HTC ITSELF distributed from developer.htc.com.
*** and that is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the android platform and wimo.... the fact that HTC distributes ***all*** of the proprietary binaries straight from their website. It means that it ***IS*** possible to generate fully AOSP (but non-functional) system images, and the USER can combine them with the binaries provided by HTC to make a working system.
From what I've seen, HTC REALLY DOESN'T CARE and/or actually WANTS users to build custom roms for their phones. They send out the cease and desist order for distribution of wimo roms, PROBABLY in accordance with MS's demands. MS probably said to them -- "listen, you either try to put a lid on piracy or we're going to stop sending you MSTRASH." HTC distributes GOOGLE apps in the roms on their website because THAT'S WHAT GOOGLE WANTS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Didn't even think about all that.
2. That's exactly what I thought. Microsoft is so scared of a lonely developer doing better than what their out-the-ass payed developers do. Honestly, why would the manufacturer of the phone give a damn what you do with it when you buy it? No matter what way you look at it: their task is to sell the phones they manufacture.
In my recent mental debate over the EVO 4G LTE vs. the Nexus, I've pondered the differences between stock ICS (pure/vanilla/etc) and the ICS we will see on the One series by HTC, including our very own EVO sequel. From the few screenshots I've seen of the One X, it does not remotely resemble the ICS I've learned to know and love with the work our devs our doing to bring the latest and greatest to the OG. Examples include the lockscreen (the Sense ring appears to still be the default one - is there an option to go straight ICS for the lockscreen?), the dock (I'm sure I can switch the launcher to fix this issue...), the notifications pulldown (I've actually not seen the Sense one yet, but I've heard various things indicating it is different from the one I'm no accustomed to), etc. Heck, even the color of the battery meter is green instead of blue!
Does anyone know or at least have an idea if we can change some of those things without rooting our devices? Having a brand new device, I don't plan on needing to root (or at least install custom ROMs, that is) for a while. But I am already missing the slick new interface Google has provided. While many claim that Sense 4.0 is going for the minimalistic approach to the latest iteration of their infamous skin, why do I feel like they have completely altered a widely praised operating system that has barely rolled out? I'm a little saddened when I see the video of the EVO 4G LTE and feel like the look of everything is dated.
But then I look at the hardware, think about the devs who'll inevitably move to this phone, and that excites me about the possibilities. I guess I'm more curious than disappointed, but I was wondering others' feelings on this topic.
Long answer short, you'll get aosp, miui and sense on the HTC which is nice if you get bored and want something different.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
alaman68 said:
Long answer short, you'll get aosp, miui and sense on the HTC which is nice if you get bored and want something different.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you make your short answer slightly longer? Haha how would I get AOSP and MIUI on the EVO LTE? You mean one devs get to work on it? Or stock?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
PsiPhiDan said:
Can you make your short answer slightly longer? Haha how would I get AOSP and MIUI on the EVO LTE? You mean one devs get to work on it? Or stock?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. Not stock, would have to be rooted. My bad. The devs will be all over that phone anyway so it will be a blast
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
It's a *good* thing the phone comes with Sense, its one more option you have, and Sense does add some useful features. Custom rom's will offer all kinds of options including optimized and bloatware free versions of Sense.
alaman68 said:
Right. Not stock, would have to be rooted. My bad. The devs will be all over that phone anyway so it will be a blast
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree. I'm kind of thinking of galaxy nexus, cuz I'm not fond of sense. But, I'm sure in no time we'll be able to rip sense OFF that SOB and put AOKP or some other variant of vanilla ICS.
Then, if you wanna run sense for a few days, that option will still be there. It's win-win.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
If I'm running Sense 4.0, do you think I'll still be able to get the Quad ICS unlock screen, or something like that? I LOVE that lockscreen - way better than the silly ring that Sense creates. I don't understand why they didn't change that from 3.0 and 3.5 to something fresh. Oh, I would assume I have the "unlock with face" option too on this phone? It's been so long since I ran Sense, I forgot if these things are changeable or not!
My only concern with the custom ROMs is whether things will run okay, like camera and such. Also, if you are running AOSP, you'll miss out on the supposedly amazing camera suite that Sense 4.0 provides, right?
Tough choice!!!
Sense 4.0 + ICS ALL DAY!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
I went to tmobile today and toyed with the one s. I will say it isn't the ICS we know from the current development but it is beautiful and sleek. The soft keys are a bit cumbersome but I could get used to it. I am in no way drawn away from the evo lte and am more than anxious to own that device!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
imheroldman said:
I went to tmobile today and toyed with the one s. I will say it isn't the ICS we know from the current development but it is beautiful and sleek. The soft keys are a bit cumbersome but I could get used to it. I am in no way drawn away from the evo lte and am more than anxious to own that device!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's awesome, especially considering the One S is inferior to our EVO we're getting...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Well I will answer my own question at this moment, because I stopped into a T-Mobile and played with the One-S for about 10 minutes. It appears that ICS as we know it is VERY coated by Sense, but not necessarily in a bad way. It is still beautiful, just very different. I noticed that there were no quick settings in the notifications menu, which is one thing I was very curious about. But overall, really nice and REALLY amazing! Considering that is the crappy version of our EVOs, I cannot wait for this thing. The One-S screen was awesome, and I know it can't touch the screen (both size and resolution-wise) of our new toy coming out. But the UI was terrifically smooth, the feel was nice (physically), and Sense was overall not intrusive. It was just omnipresent. I'm not disappointed at all - and I know the devs will give us amazing options in terms of removing Sense, or tweaking Sense to give us cool features like quick settings and slide to change brightness.
I can't wait until the One-X is out so that I can play with that one, since it will give a much more accurate portrayal of our experience we can expect. May 18th can't get here soon enough!
I'm posting this everywhere . Its a post by toastcfh over in the oneX forums about how much HTC locked the phone down. Among many things, it is impossible to mount SD from recovery due to their locking, even with custom recovery and HTC dev unlock. If toast says it, it is so, I mean, the guy is an Android/Linux GENIUS. he's the one that had the Evo root method instructions posted before launch day.
Quote.....
no, USB mount does not work in recovery. It appears to be locked out in recovery mode. the workarounds to get it working are one of two things.
(1) fastboot boot awesomeRecovery.img (this works because fastboot then boots recovery on the boot/temporary partition. So the you're not actually in recovery mode
(2) Offmode (this works because again you're again not technically in recovery mode. It uses the recovery ramdisk, kernel, and binaries but its still not technically recovery.
On that note I've seen suggestions that it's possibly a recovery issue with cwm and twrp. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be the case. If it were then in CWM u wouldn't have usb when u fastboot boot the recovery or in offmode (fair assumption since both these options use the same kernel, ramdisk and binaries as recovery?). Can it be fix? Not that i know of. It looks to me like a total radio or bootloader lockout from using USB in recovery. Which means on a radio or bootloader level USB is disabled in recovery mode.
On that note I think we should raise the point to HTC that this locking down of the device does not suite our needs.Key points of fail would be as follows.
(1) Can NOT flash the boot partition from recovery. I've personally contacted HTC on this numerous times and they seem to just not care. Responding with "It's a security issue" and so forth. I would love to know how this is a security issue of any sort. Every other Android device has this ability except HTC devices since they started the HTC unlock ordeal. It's utter fail IMHO and HTC should listen to our needs .
(2) Can NOT flash recovery or boot partitions from system. This issue is NOT a deal breaker and isn't so bad when it comes down to the nitty gritty. But since the issue above exists, flashing with applications like htc dumlock and such were our only options. These work around apps cant be used to flash now because of the lockpout from system and it wouldn't be such an issue if HTC didnt lock us out in recovery from flashing boot.
(3) Can NOT flash P*IMG.zips in hboot/bootloader anymore. For the unlocked device running a custom firmware this is a must. Specially when radio updates and such are needed from the OEM. We seen a big use of this on the Sensation when HTC updated the device from Gingerbread to Ice Cream Sandwich. The update required new hboots, radios, and partitioning to actually use. So in that instead of having to flash a RUU Which didn't exist the only choice was to flash a custom P*IMG.zip that included all the radios and images need to run the builds. At this point we can't update those image/partitions without flashing an RUU. This makes no since and doesn't seem to do anything but make things more difficult on the unlocker to customize and modify their device.
(4) If all the conditions above HAVE to exist. Then why not give us documentation or utilities to flash fimware.zips from recovery like HTC does? When HTC was the proud Nexus device there was full support and documentation available on how to flash firmware on their devices. This made anyone choosing an HTC device blessed with knowing that their device was not only open and unlocked, but when flashing firmware that it was being flashed correctly to Google and HTC's standards. This code has now been moved out of recovery since right before the move to edify scripting and moved to vendor/htc/ (not arguing this choice as thats where it belongs from a maintaining point of view). But the problem is that vendor/htc is proprietary now. Which means Documentation and support for flashing firmware correctly is not available and left to developers of recoveries for the community to figure out. One would think if HTC was standing behind us that they would step up and give us a PROPER/OPEN/REAL unlock, or if they cant for the lame excuse of security concerns, then give us the documentation and utilities to flash the boot and firmware partitions properly. I mean really... what is there to lose there?
(5) WHAT WAS THE POINT OF HTC UNLOCK? I was to reach out and except us as a community. It was to keep us from having to exploit their firmware and look for holes to gain control of a device we rightfully own. WHAT DID HTC UNLOCK DO? It unlocked the devices at first and with each new revision of the unlock it gets more locked down and harder for us to use it as intended. WHAT DOES THAT LEAD TO? It leads to us hoping someone will take the time out of their life and exploit HTC's firmware so we can have access and control of our devices. I mean, it's bad when u have people poking a device with a paperclip to get a device unlocked to avoid a official unlock.
Bottom line; I'm personally fed up with HTC's unlock. It's absolute crap! It does not serve the purpose it was intended and only makes things harder then they were before. As a devoted HTC customer it has me questioning if my next device will be an HTC. With all the other options that would allow me to spend less time trying to gain proper access to my device and more time actually having fun with it, why choose HTC? Everyone else is shying away for these same issues. Everyone with an HTC unlocked device waits for someone to exploit HTC's firmware and give them a proper unlock. Why not just choose a device without the locked down/unlock instead? IDK but HTC needs to step up and listen to us. Every HTC forum with an HTC Unlock is screaming for these issues to be fixed.
My call to HTC is to fix these issue and/or give us proper documentation on flashing firmware to our devices via custom recoveries. The boot flashing lockout is dumb, pointless, and in NO WAY a security threat AT ALL and is nothing more then a CRAP RESPONSE to something that they sould be working to correct, instead of ignoring. In the end its hurting HTC's relations with developers and is ultimately doing the opposite of what it's original intent.
HTC, PLEASE READ AND LISTEN!!!11ONEone
To everyone else, SPREAD THE WORD!!!ONEone
End quote.........
There has to be a way to petition HTC. Reading this is making me lean galaxy Nexus, ...and I F$%kin HATE Samsung.
Edit: this post is from the One X forum TWRP topic.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
No way I'm buying a Samsung phone.
I'll trust that someone will figure out how to get around the issue at some point. I love how the phone is stock anyway.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
PsiPhiDan said:
In my recent mental debate over the EVO 4G LTE vs. the Nexus, I've pondered the differences between stock ICS (pure/vanilla/etc) and the ICS we will see on the One series by HTC, including our very own EVO sequel. From the few screenshots I've seen of the One X, it does not remotely resemble the ICS I've learned to know and love with the work our devs our doing to bring the latest and greatest to the OG. Examples include the lockscreen (the Sense ring appears to still be the default one - is there an option to go straight ICS for the lockscreen?), the dock (I'm sure I can switch the launcher to fix this issue...), the notifications pulldown (I've actually not seen the Sense one yet, but I've heard various things indicating it is different from the one I'm no accustomed to), etc. Heck, even the color of the battery meter is green instead of blue!
Does anyone know or at least have an idea if we can change some of those things without rooting our devices? Having a brand new device, I don't plan on needing to root (or at least install custom ROMs, that is) for a while. But I am already missing the slick new interface Google has provided. While many claim that Sense 4.0 is going for the minimalistic approach to the latest iteration of their infamous skin, why do I feel like they have completely altered a widely praised operating system that has barely rolled out? I'm a little saddened when I see the video of the EVO 4G LTE and feel like the look of everything is dated.
But then I look at the hardware, think about the devs who'll inevitably move to this phone, and that excites me about the possibilities. I guess I'm more curious than disappointed, but I was wondering others' feelings on this topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There IS PLENTY of apps on the play store that offer home screen and lock screen customization, such as launcherpro, milocker, gosms, as far as changing the status bar and battery bar i'm not so sure, i haven't been on a phone with s-on in a while and can't tell you what rootless tweaks would work
I was really surprised to learn that LG don't have a bootloader unlocking service like even HTC have done and given that the LG never managed to unlock the bootloader, I'm quite surprised that there wasn't more of a community outcry. What is up with that? Have LG ever spoken of supporting the development community? Is it unlikely that we'll see it happen within the flagship lifetime of our device?
NB: This is discussion topic, it's really not a question/answer topic.
sabret00the said:
I was really surprised to learn that LG don't have a bootloader unlocking service like even HTC have done and given that the LG never managed to unlock the bootloader, I'm quite surprised that there wasn't more of a community outcry. What is up with that? Have LG ever spoken of supporting the development community? Is it unlikely that we'll see it happen within the flagship lifetime of our device?
NB: This is discussion topic, it's really not a question/answer topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
whoa is this 100% correct? if that's the case I will strongly reconsider getting the G3 and will probably go for either M8 or Z2...
Well, coming from an LG Nexus 5, I can tell you that the development community is booming over there. But that's to be expected with a Nexus device. I'm planning on switching from the Nexus 5 to the G3 (ordered yesterday) in an effort to no longer sacrifice hardware in order to get the vanilla Android experience. These days I'd rather give up some of the software advantages in AOSP ROMs in order to get significantly better hardware.
Unfortunately, it's a sacrifice one way or another. And if you buy a phone such as the G3 you must do so expecting that the development for it will take significantly longer and will likely have less options. However, in my opinion the interface/features offered in the latest stock LG interfaces are quite improved and look/feel much better than the interfaces provided by other manufacturers. I don't think I'll have any issue using the stock interface with the LG for many months after coming from the previous 4 generations of Nexus devices.
The vanilla Android experience has gotten quite boring in my opinion and I welcome the features that will be available on LG's stock ROM.
cez10 said:
whoa is this 100% correct? if that's the case I will strongly reconsider getting the G3 and will probably go for either M8 or Z2...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly yes, it's something I should've looked into in the six months of waiting for this phone. But it's sadly the case. Even on the G2, they couldn't unlock the bootloader and instead had to bypass it.
sn0warmy said:
Well, coming from an LG Nexus 5, I can tell you that the development community is booming over there. But that's to be expected with a Nexus device. I'm planning on switching from the Nexus 5 to the G3 (ordered yesterday) in an effort to no longer sacrifice hardware in order to get the vanilla Android experience. These days I'd rather give up some of the software advantages in AOSP ROMs in order to get significantly better hardware.
Unfortunately, it's a sacrifice one way or another. And if you buy a phone such as the G3 you must do so expecting that the development for it will take significantly longer and will likely have less options. However, in my opinion the interface/features offered in the latest stock LG interfaces are quite improved and look/feel much better than the interfaces provided by other manufacturers. I don't think I'll have any issue using the stock interface with the LG for many months after coming from the previous 4 generations of Nexus devices.
The vanilla Android experience has gotten quite boring in my opinion and I welcome the features that will be available on LG's stock ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have the patience, I'd recommend waiting a little while to see if they announce a GPe of the G3. That could provide you with the best of both worlds.
Development will improve for sure - the phone has only been out less than a week (D855) with most people still not having received their devices yet and is not even released in the US. It seems the Korean models have shipped with an unlocked bootloader (from what I have heard) and as for the D855 no one has yet confirmed it a) it is locked and b) if it can be unlocked.
I have certainly not looked into it yet myself, although if it is locked, unlocking via any "hacking" method, is beyond my knowledge, someone smarter than me will have to tell us how to do that.
Give it time, development is always slow in the first month of a new device (unless its a nexus), and tends ot only pick up after release in the USA.
sabret00the said:
If you have the patience, I'd recommend waiting a little while to see if they announce a GPe of the G3. That could provide you with the best of both worlds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh, if they release a GP edition G3 it will still pay to have this one because any AOSP ROMs for the GP edition will be quickly ported over to the non-GP edition anyway. I plan on keeping this phone but will also still be happy if they come out with a GP edition as well so we can get some AOSP source code up and running for this device.
And I'm not worried about the bootloader being locked. Someone ALWAYS finds a way to unlock it rather quickly these days.
Personally, my goal with this phone is to root it to get my DPI settings where I want them and get rid of any bloat that may cause the phone to slow down. If I can manage to accomplish those two things, I'll be happy (and it's already doable). My days of rooting, flashing ROMs, bricking, unbricking, and flashing more ROMs are over. At this point I just want a solid phone that works flawlessly.
Lennyuk said:
Development will improve for sure - the phone has only been out less than a week (D855) with most people still not having received their devices yet and is not even released in the US. It seems the Korean models have shipped with an unlocked bootloader (from what I have heard) and as for the D855 no one has yet confirmed it a) it is locked and b) if it can be unlocked.
I have certainly not looked into it yet myself, although if it is locked, unlocking via any "hacking" method, is beyond my knowledge, someone smarter than me will have to tell us how to do that.
Give it time, development is always slow in the first month of a new device (unless its a nexus), and tends ot only pick up after release in the USA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not so much talking about from the community side, I have faith the community will find an unlock or bypass method. I'm more so talking about from LG's point of view. They don't seem to be supportive hence no official channel to unlock the G2 bootloader despite the G3 launching globally this week.
sabret00the said:
I'm not so much talking about from the community side, I have faith the community will find an unlock or bypass method. I'm more so talking about from LG's point of view. They don't seem to be supportive hence no official channel to unlock the G2 bootloader despite the G3 launching globally this week.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember it took years to get HTC to provide an unlock tool (and the company nearly going bankrupt!), Moto and Sony were the same - moto becoming better when Google acquired them and Sony nearly gave up making android devices completely before they decided to become more dev friendly.
Basically companies only provide unlock methods as a last resort, when they feel its the only way to improve their sales. LG haven't needed this yet.
There are still plenty of devices where you cannot officially unlock the bootloader, its not just an LG thing.
Lennyuk said:
Remember it took years to get HTC to provide an unlock tool (and the company nearly going bankrupt!), Moto and Sony were the same - moto becoming better when Google acquired them and Sony nearly gave up making android devices completely before they decided to become more dev friendly.
Basically companies only provide unlock methods as a last resort, when they feel its the only way to improve their sales. LG haven't needed this yet.
There are still plenty of devices where you cannot officially unlock the bootloader, its not just an LG thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally hear you, but with the success Sony have enjoyed, you'd hope manufacturers would get involved early on.
Lennyuk said:
and as for the D855 no one has yet confirmed it a) it is locked and b) if it can be unlocked.
I have certainly not looked into it yet myself, although if it is locked, unlocking via any "hacking" method, is beyond my knowledge, someone smarter than me will have to tell us how to do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this something that is easy to check?
Dubhar said:
Is this something that is easy to check?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't even access the bootloader. Despite turning USB debugging on, I can't get ADB to recognise the phone. I started a thread to check if others have a similar problem.
It's a flagship, I'm not worried about development support. Look at the g2, it got cm support. Plus the LG software looks decent, not too basic like HTC or too intrusive like Samsungs touchwiz
sabret00the said:
I can't even access the bootloader. Despite turning USB debugging on, I can't get ADB to recognise the phone. I started a thread to check if others have a similar problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rooted D855 yesterday using ioroot and as a part of the process "adb devices" did show the phone with USB debugging on.
I had to install lg unified driver so windows 8 had a right driver for it.
Heisenberg420 said:
It's a flagship, I'm not worried about development support. Look at the g2, it got cm support. Plus the LG software looks decent, not too basic like HTC or too intrusive like Samsungs touchwiz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread is about development support from LG. Please read threads before commenting. The G2 you mentioned was given as an example of the lack of support previously provided by LG.
jodvova said:
I rooted D855 yesterday using ioroot and as a part of the process "adb devices" did show the phone with USB debugging on.
I had to install lg unified driver so windows 8 had a right driver for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps I need to update my drivers then. Though that's nearly unheard of as I'm on Linux.
If i can atleast root the phone to remove the bloatware, I'll be happy for a little while.
sabret00the said:
This thread is about development support from LG. Please read threads before commenting. The G2 you mentioned was given as an example of the lack of support previously provided by LG.
Perhaps I need to update my drivers then. Though that's nearly unheard of as I'm on Linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm, i've not check on Linux yet, but it is recognised on windows with the right USB drivers installed. Maybe its lacking some udev rule to properly recognise the device?
The LGD855 boots into recovery with adb reboot recovery, but not the bootloader using adb reboot-bootloader its just reboots. I goes into download mode with power+volume up, that about all ive tried.
Slash8915 said:
If i can atleast root the phone to remove the bloatware, I'll be happy for a little while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
towelroot worked.
on Win 7 by flashing sphinxrom for d855 and s,k,l :
when i was installing the lg driver, it installed the AndroidNet Sooner Single ADB Interface
i had to change it Android ADB Interface
what the hell the device just came out give it some time
daddioj said:
what the hell the device just came out give it some time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What the hell can't you read & understand what OP has said or trying to say? (sorry no offence intended). He isn't talking about the support of the development community to this device(G3), which by the way will certainly pick up from what it is now, but he is talking about LG's support to the development community(being more developer friendly as Sony & HTC).
And even if we talk about how much active Android development this device(& it's variants) will see, then let me tell you that the development activity of this device will(probably) never be as much as you see with other flagship devices like HTC One(M7 & m8), that is because a) HTC is more developer friendly by letting you to unlock the bootloader & thus making easy for developers to port(make) ROMs, recoveries & what not, where as with LG & G2 it is entirely different case(ask any developer involved in G2 development, how difficult it is or was to make a recovery or a ROM for G2 and for common flahers the risk factor of flashing those recoveries & ROMs that much more because all the solutions based on a bypassing solution with many permutations & combinations rather than a fully unlockable bootloader just as with HTC devices and b) they are more popular devices among people(as much successful the G2 was it wasn't sold as many as S4s & S5s or M7s & M8s).
We all hope that LG will follow HTC & Sony in being developer frienly. No doubt they are making beautiful devices like G2 & now G3. But sadly, as one of other member pointed out above, it is at the stage of extinction that a manufacturer tend to be more friendly with developer community.
st_7 said:
What the hell can't you read & understand what OP has said or trying to say? (sorry no offence intended). He isn't talking about the support of the development community to this device(G3), which by the way will certainly pick up from what it is now, but he is talking about LG's support to the development community(being more developer friendly as Sony & HTC).
And even if we talk about how much active Android development this device(& it's variants) will see, then let me tell you that the development activity of this device will(probably) never be as much as you see with other flagship devices like HTC One(M7 & m8), that is because a) HTC is more developer friendly by letting you to unlock the bootloader & thus making easy for developers to port(make) ROMs, recoveries & what not, where as with LG & G2 it is entirely different case(ask any developer involved in G2 development, how difficult it is or was to make a recovery or a ROM for G2 and for common flahers the risk factor of flashing those recoveries & ROMs that much more because all the solutions based on a bypassing solution with many permutations & combinations rather than a fully unlockable bootloader just as with HTC devices and b) they are more popular devices among people(as much successful the G2 was it wasn't sold as many as S4s & S5s or M7s & M8s).
We all hope that LG will follow HTC & Sony in being developer frienly. No doubt they are making beautiful devices like G2 & now G3. But sadly, as one of other member pointed out above, it is at the stage of extinction that a manufacturer tend to be more friendly with developer community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am Guilty of not reading the whole Thread