Database Users

Nexus One first week sales = weak.((20k))

http://www.pcworld.com/article/1867...irst_week_of_sales_were_weak_report_says.html
Thats a ton of complaints coming out for only 20k sales.
Not being available in T-Mo stores really hurt sales. I think being able to see this screen and hold it in person would move a hell of alot more units.
he Nexus One didn't benefit from such a strong marketing push like the Motorola Droid (estimated $100 million), despite Google's phone featuring so-far unique Android features. This has reflected in poor first week sales for the Nexus One, as per the table below. (Click image above to enlarge)
Instead, Google chose a soft launch for the Nexus One, selling it through their website. But the steep $500 Google is asking for the unlocked device and the mixed reviews the Nexus One received didn't help to maximize first week sales.
Flurry's report mentions that the Nexus One lacks the "wow factor" and the general perception that the device is not seen as revolutionary, but rather just evolutionary from other Android phones.
Om Malik, of GigaOm, notes that Flurry's estimated sales numbers for the Nexus One might even be a bit far fetched. He mentions Google has been giving away the Nexus One to its employees and also lent it to many members of the media for reviews, which could have bumped up Flurry's analytics.
Next to the poor first week sales figure, the Nexus One has also seen mounting complaints over the 3G connectivity of the device and the lack of developer tools for the Android 2.1 platform.
In her review of the Nexus One, my colleague Ginny Mies notes that Google's phone "isn't quite the game-changer people hoped it would be, though it certainly trumps other phones in performance, display quality, and speed." Next to pros like a dazzling OLED display, snappy performance and sleep, slim design, she marks the lack of multitouch support and the software keyboard as cons.
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I'm actually glad. I dont want the nexus one to become a fashion icon like the iPhone did.
EDIT: YOU! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING HERE

melterx12 said:
I'm actually glad. I dont want the nexus one to become a fashion icon like the iPhone did.
EDIT: YOU! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING HERE
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awww Fuuudgdeeee
Had to be 2 new yorkers didnt it. lol
Agree with this though. Ive been saying I hope a ton of people want it but few get it. That way Google is pressed to resolve there customer service and HW issues and early adopters dont look like bandwagon jumpers for the latest fashion device.
On the flip side... I hope Google doesnt turn around and blame Tmobile. Tmo and Google have been continually bringing out Android sets I hope that relationship doesnt sour because of this.

Actually 20k in sales for a phone that has reportedly had the vast majority of users buy the unlocked version is pretty damn good (Leo Laporte mentioned it on TWiT on Sunday)
melterx12 said:
I'm actually glad. I dont want the nexus one to become a fashion icon like the iPhone did.
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As much as I give credit to Apple for what they've done with the iPhone, the iPhone has become the "razr" of phones.....the "Wal-Mart" of phones....

The bad press on this phone is silly. It takes nothing into consideration, bends around the truth, and just sounds misinformed. This phone had a soft launch, wasn't available in stores, no television ads, and wasn't really advertised by Google until the day of it's launch.
These soft launches make an impact. Word will spread and then it will pop up and explode on Verizon. I'm not even trying to defend the device, it just makes me angry seeing so much misinformed crap popping up on the web.
"But the steep $500 Google is asking for the unlocked device and the mixed reviews the Nexus One received didn't help to maximize first week sales."
Mixed reviews meaning angry fanboys? I don't get it. The thing runs Android really well, is fast as hell, looks great, has a good camera, etc. I have no idea what people were expecting. Android has been out, and this was stated to be an Android device.

mark925 said:
As much as I give credit to Apple for what they've done with the iPhone, the iPhone has become the "razr" of phones.....the "Wal-Mart" of phones....
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+1
everybody and their dog has an iphone. i'd rather have something few others do

To be honest, and trying to be unbiased, I think these numbers are ok for Google. Here's why I say that... given the marketing channel used here (online only sales and advertising), I suspect that Google is banking on a moderate rate of sales early on, with an increase a little later. Most people like to see and touch something prior to dropping hundreds of dollars on it. I think Google is counting on the early adopters to buy the phones, and then once we have them and others start seeing and playing with them, they will start buying. In theory, this should work the same as if the N1 would have been sold in stores, except the initial sales would be lighter and the rate of sales would be steeper after the first few weeks.

My proverbial 2 cents...
#1. It's hard for someone to drop that much cash on a phone unseen. Like others have pointed out, it's hard to sell a mobile phone without being able to "touch" it and play with it at a retail store.
#2. The N1 is one of the first handsets relatively available for purchase which has the Qualcomm Snapdragon processor. I honestly think the "hacking" community for the N1 will be similar of what the G1 (HTC Dream) has seen... In other words, the HTC Passion is basically the next great hacking platform as the HTC Dream experienced.
Cheers,
Kermee

So essentially 1 in 150,000 Americans (ROUGHLY, only considering domestic sales) are packin the N1 - Sounds like a pretty elite/exclusive group if you ask me

booloobunny said:
..."But the steep $500 Google is asking for the unlocked device and the mixed reviews the Nexus One received didn't help to maximize first week sales."
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Also, to add onto this...I don't think the price is steep at all. In fact it is cheaper than many other unlocked devices with lesser hardware. Also, it has been pointed out in many places that getting the unlocked version is cheaper than going with the subsidized version and mandatory plan.

When a phone can be purchased only from one location and one URL only gadget freaks like us know about it's existence. Some of my friends who think they are gadget freaks were shocked to see my phone over the weekend. They didn't even know about it yet. Forget the common man. Unless, the phone is sold in T-mobile, and B&M stores, it will be hard to sell like Driod.
Except for lousy T-mobile 3G inside buildings, I love this phone. But I am seriously thinking about returning just to go back to AT&T as I would like to stay with the best GSM carrier who gets most unlocked 3G phones so I can keep changing my phones every few months.

uansari1 said:
To be honest, and trying to be unbiased, I think these numbers are ok for Google. Here's why I say that... given the marketing channel used here (online only sales and advertising), I suspect that Google is banking on a moderate rate of sales early on, with an increase a little later. Most people like to see and touch something prior to dropping hundreds of dollars on it. I think Google is counting on the early adopters to buy the phones, and then once we have them and others start seeing and playing with them, they will start buying. In theory, this should work the same as if the N1 would have been sold in stores, except the initial sales would be lighter and the rate of sales would be steeper after the first few weeks.
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I agree. This seems similar to Gmail when it was in Beta....and Gvoice. Only certain people had it and it was invite only. This seems to make a launch more manageable (less volume) and the inital adopters are the ones who typically want it the most and spread the word to others for free.

I want one... I just don't want to pay $530 to be a beta tester. I think once the 3g issues are solved we'll see alot more people pay for the phone

once Verizon and vodaphone get this phone. Sales will SKY rocket.

Instore sales
The only way for a big change in sales would be to sell the Nexus One in stores, mainstream buyers are not going to spend premium money on a handset that they can not handle first.
There are not enough early adopters and tech heads like most of us on this site to make a major impact on sales. Plus many of us are holding off to see how the 3G issue gets handled before buying.

since they didnt really air commercial for the phone and it is only available online. the numbers are pretty good.

melterx12 said:
The HARDWARE to produce the Nexus One costs $175$. This price does NOT include licensing, manufacturing, advertising, shipping, Government Taxes, etc.
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Yeah... Putting the parts together... probably costs more than the parts themselves, including labor.
Sure, I could get the "parts" for my car too for less than a quarter of what it sells for... I wouldn't want to try to assemble it though!
Cheers,
Kermee

melterx12 said:
The HARDWARE to produce the Nexus One costs $175$. This price does NOT include licensing, manufacturing, advertising, shipping, Government Taxes, etc.
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...not to mention R&D

I still have people ask me when its coming out when I show them mine, this phone is still very "underground"

melterx12 said:
The HARDWARE to produce the Nexus One costs $175$. This price does NOT include licensing, manufacturing, advertising, shipping, Government Taxes, etc.
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Can you send me a link to where you found out the hardware only cost $175 for the nexus one. I would like to see how much the snapdragon proc costs, and the 512mb of ram, and all the other components in the phone, and just the cost of putting it together.
And I am not referring to licensing, manufacturing, advertising, shipping, Government Taxes, etc.
Just the hardware and the costs to put the phone together. I call bull**** on the $175 dollars.
That is how much it might cost to put together the iphone 3gs with much cheaper hardware. But the Nexus One hardware is another story.

The thing that makes me nervous...

Is that I have not seen a review of the Xoom anywhere. Has anybody else? Somehow Motorola was able to get a Xoom in Chad Ochocinco's hands a month ago but I haven't seen any evidence that Motorola has shipped review units to media members. Will we have to wait until after release on Thursday to see any reviews? This release has been so shady that I'm waiting until after I see a credible reviewer verify all of Motorola's claims before I consider purchasing.

Jrockttu said:
Is that I have not seen a review of the Xoom anywhere. Has anybody else? Somehow Motorola was able to get a Xoom in Chad Ochocinco's hands a month ago but I haven't seen any evidence that Motorola has shipped review units to media members. Will we have to wait until after release on Thursday to see any reviews? This release has been so shady that I'm waiting until after I see a credible reviewer verify all of Motorola's claims before I consider purchasing.
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There have been countless reviews. You mean you want an in-depth detailed review from someone who gets to use the device "in the wild". That is not out yet, and that is normal for a new device of this sort. The devices we have seen so far aren't ready for primetime, and we can only hope that the XOOM I pick up in 4 days is ready.
The release isn't shady, it's just a little rushed. They are trying to bring the device to market ASAP. Would you rather they push the release by a month and send out samples to reviewers? I think the review I put on YouTube will be better than most professional reviews, except for the methodical, if anecdotal, reviews Engadget and other upper echelon tech blogs post.

setite said:
There have been countless reviews. You mean you want an in-depth detailed review from someone who gets to use the device "in the wild". That is not out yet, and that is normal for a new device of this sort. The devices we have seen so far aren't ready for primetime, and we can only hope that the XOOM I pick up in 4 days is ready.
The release isn't shady, it's just a little rushed. They are trying to bring the device to market ASAP. Would you rather they push the release by a month and send out samples to reviewers? I think the review I put on YouTube will be better than most professional reviews, except for the methodical, if anecdotal, reviews Engadget and other upper echelon tech blogs post.
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I disagree. It is shady in the way they are forcing people to pay an extra $35 activation fee plus $20 min service just to activate WiFi. Yes, it is stated in the small print but still, bad business and shady in my mind.

keitht said:
I disagree. It is shady in the way they are forcing people to pay an extra $35 activation fee plus $20 min service just to activate WiFi. Yes, it is stated in the small print but still, bad business and shady in my mind.
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If you consider that Verizon has put money into this project, it's fair to expect them to make a profit on each unit. I think that they should have worked something out with Best Buy that allowed them to take a cut from the 800$, but the result would have been the tablet costing 850$.
Hasn't a rumor been floating around that buying direct from Verizon would require no activation? As counter-intuitive as that may sound, it tracks as Motorola is selling the XOOM 3G wholesale for 550$. So if BB sells it, they keep the 250$ difference, if Verizon sells it, they don't need you to pay for a month of service because they have already made 250$.
It's not shady, but arguably bad business from a consumer image angle. People who don't understand what is going on, or people who simply don't care will look poorly upon the policy. Knowing that there is a WiFi Only version for 200$ less down the road should assuage any issues. But you still have the right to be mad, even if it just gives you heartburn

setite said:
If you consider that Verizon has put money into this project, it's fair to expect them to make a profit on each unit. I think that they should have worked something out with Best Buy that allowed them to take a cut from the 800$, but the result would have been the tablet costing 850$.
Hasn't a rumor been floating around that buying direct from Verizon would require no activation? As counter-intuitive as that may sound, it tracks as Motorola is selling the XOOM 3G wholesale for 550$. So if BB sells it, they keep the 250$ difference, if Verizon sells it, they don't need you to pay for a month of service because they have already made 250$.
It's not shady, but arguably bad business from a consumer image angle. People who don't understand what is going on, or people who simply don't care will look poorly upon the policy. Knowing that there is a WiFi Only version for 200$ less down the road should assuage any issues. But you still have the right to be mad, even if it just gives you heartburn
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You sound like a lawyer It is bad business and consumers will speak with their wallets. This price point will not ultimately work. And we still do not know actual issues with the device including what is going on with the SD support. I was all excited about this before but now, I cannot see paying $900 without a single accessory.

keitht said:
You sound like a lawyer It is bad business and consumers will speak with their wallets. This price point will not ultimately work. And we still do not know actual issues with the device including what is going on with the SD support. I was all excited about this before but now, I cannot see paying $900 without a single accessory.
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Yup. I am planning to go to law school . I agree with you. I just have a habit of playing devil's advocate, and trying to inform other consumers so they don't get enraged and end up hurting themselves by getting angry and making sweeping statements they can't take back. Like when Steve Jobs got angry and committed to never having flash, and forever people like me who need flash can't buy an iPad.

setite said:
There have been countless reviews. You mean you want an in-depth detailed review from someone who gets to use the device "in the wild". That is not out yet, and that is normal for a new device of this sort. The devices we have seen so far aren't ready for primetime, and we can only hope that the XOOM I pick up in 4 days is ready.
The release isn't shady, it's just a little rushed. They are trying to bring the device to market ASAP. Would you rather they push the release by a month and send out samples to reviewers? I think the review I put on YouTube will be better than most professional reviews, except for the methodical, if anecdotal, reviews Engadget and other upper echelon tech blogs post.
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I haven't seen a single review, just a few hands-on impressions in a controlled environment. I want something that validates the 10 hour battery life and that tells me if the OS is buggy, etc.
I consider it a shady release for the reasons already covered in this thread. The $800 price tag is high, but reasonable, until you consider that it's a $200 premium for 3g/4g, you have to activate data to unlock wifi, and they'll charge you an activation fee of $35 any time you turn on the data. That last part is the biggest kick in the nuts. Motorola, Verizon, and the retailers are all trying to get their cut of the device and the consumers are the ones being punished.

Jrockttu said:
I haven't seen a single review, just a few hands-on impressions in a controlled environment. I want something that validates the 10 hour battery life and that tells me if the OS is buggy, etc.
I consider it a shady release for the reasons already covered in this thread. The $800 price tag is high, but reasonable, until you consider that it's a $200 premium for 3g/4g, you have to activate data to unlock wifi, and they'll charge you an activation fee of $35 any time you turn on the data. That last part is the biggest kick in the nuts. Motorola, Verizon, and the retailers are all trying to get their cut of the device and the consumers are the ones being punished.
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Agreed. The last part is indeed a true roshambo kick in the nards. I am quite cross about that particular detail as it sort of defeats the purpose of month to month, and makes no sense given my admittedly limited knowledge of how CDMA works. AFAIK all that should be necessary is an OTA provisioning of the tablet when you want to enable service. Something I do on a regular basis for my dad who goes through a new phone every 6 months. He buys crappy flip phones on ebay for 20$ and I activate them using a combination of the Verizon website and a # code on the phone. Easy Peasy, no cost. This makes it clear that they are trying to get you to just keep a minimal data plan month to month, because without a gap of 2 months or more, you will be paying more in the grand scheme if you pay an activation fee each time you lapse. It's almost like a late fee.

Jrockttu said:
I haven't seen a single review, just a few hands-on impressions in a controlled environment. I want something that validates the 10 hour battery life and that tells me if the OS is buggy, etc.
I consider it a shady release for the reasons already covered in this thread. The $800 price tag is high, but reasonable, until you consider that it's a $200 premium for 3g/4g, you have to activate data to unlock wifi, and they'll charge you an activation fee of $35 any time you turn on the data. That last part is the biggest kick in the nuts. Motorola, Verizon, and the retailers are all trying to get their cut of the device and the consumers are the ones being punished.
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It's up the the manufacturer to release the reviewers from the NDA and let them post reviews. The sheer number of developers that have the Xoom is proof that reviewers have had them for a while. Usually reviews don't come out until the device is actually for sale.

Jrockttu said:
Is that I have not seen a review of the Xoom anywhere. Has anybody else? Somehow Motorola was able to get a Xoom in Chad Ochocinco's hands a month ago but I haven't seen any evidence that Motorola has shipped review units to media members. Will we have to wait until after release on Thursday to see any reviews? This release has been so shady that I'm waiting until after I see a credible reviewer verify all of Motorola's claims before I consider purchasing.
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There have been Atrix reviews out for a while, but so far, it's been mum on the Xoom. It doesn't make much sense to me either.
That said, I think "shady" is the wrong word. I would use "bizarre". Everything about this has been bizarre, and the fact that nobody even knows when the thing is being released just flabbergasts me. Most launches include things like, you know, release dates, prices, venues, etc.... Right now, the only thing we know for certain is that it will be available at Best Buy in late February for $800, and we haven't known that stuff for very long.
However much I dislike Apple, Steve Jobs would never have let something like this happen... unless we're talking about the mythical white iPhone 4.

Xevilious said:
There have been Atrix reviews out for a while, but so far, it's been mum on the Xoom. It doesn't make much sense to me either.
That said, I think "shady" is the wrong word. I would use "bizarre". Everything about this has been bizarre, and the fact that nobody even knows when the thing is being released just flabbergasts me. Most launches include things like, you know, release dates, prices, venues, etc.... Right now, the only thing we know for certain is that it will be available at Best Buy in late February for $800, and we haven't known that stuff for very long.
However much I dislike Apple, Steve Jobs would never have let something like this happen... unless we're talking about the mythical white iPhone 4.
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It's just an amazing failure of a launch. It boggles my mind that they can come off of their "Best of CES" performance and get nothing but bad press thereafter. How can they not effectively communicate the price and release dates across media and retailers? Even after Sanjay Jha confirmed the price, the price still isn't listed on the official Xoom website! So much potential wasted. I'm an Apple hater, but nobody can deny that they know how to run a product launch and these other companies need to take notes every June.

Jrockttu said:
It's just an amazing failure of a launch. It boggles my mind that they can come off of their "Best of CES" performance and get nothing but bad press thereafter. How can they not effectively communicate the price and release dates across media and retailers? Even after Sanjay Jha confirmed the price, the price still isn't listed on the official Xoom website! So much potential wasted. I'm an Apple hater, but nobody can deny that they know how to run a product launch and these other companies need to take notes every June.
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Exactly correct. Motorola could stand to take several lessons from Apple, mainly marketing.

Samsung - King of non-support?

It's beyond reason the lengths that Samsung goes to not support their current and prospective customers.
About 2 months ago I started my quest for a 64Gb or 32Gb version of the 7.7
Contacting the Portuguese Samsung Customer Support line, I was greeted by a Brazilian-Portuguese speaking operator (...you most probably don't know this but Brazilian Portuguese is not quite the same as the original language and, as such, the use of different expressions and pronunciation can turn any technical support exchange into a very irritating exercise...).
The lady was a-b-s-o-l-u-t-l-y clueless about what was being asked, so the inquiry terminated in frustration.
Since we are such a small market, I investigated a little and managed to circumvent the "official" (non)support network by obtaining the direct phone number to Samsung Portugal.
I've managed to talk to someone in charge over there and, luckily, things are on the right track now, as far as information for the Portuguese market is concerned...but only because I have "inside access".
...but, being that I travel a lot across Europe and have several days frequent stays in the Netherlands, I decided to contact Samsung Holland about the availability for the said models over there. I figured I might grab hold of one of the larger capacity models, while in Amsterdam.
Trying to get back to the Support phone line (Dutch version) proved impossible, as it features a 0900 number that is unreachable from outside Holland, so I resorted to an email inquiry.
Check out this "non-reply" I just received and tell me if Samsung is not testing their customers patience:
Hi,
I travel frequently to the Netherlands.
When will the 32 and 64Gb versions of the GT-P6800 be available and where can I find them in the Amsterdam area?
Thank you,
Client number: xxxxxxxx
Dear Mr. xxxxxx,
Thank you for your e-mail concerning the Samsung GT-P6800.
Samsung offers its customers an extensive dealer and distribution network throughout the Netherlands. An authorized Samsung dealer (and / or distributor) may specialize in a particular type of product. They also have a difference between stocks and groups of products from Samsung.
It is also possible that a "subtype" of an article is not displayed on our website because it is in limited edition and sold by one or more parties exclusively with different product specifications.
These are the reasons we can't give an exact price, inventory and comparative technical information to determine, in relation to deliverability for the product mentioned. We therefore advise you to inquire at a Samsung dealer, distributor and / or retailer in your area (available via internet, telephone directories, information services).
For further question, you can always contact us on the telephone number 0900-SAMSUNG(0900-7267864) for Holland or 022012418 for Belgium, on workdays from 09.00 -18.00 o'clock.
For a quick and efficient treatment of your problems, we advise you to have the following data by hand: Your Customer number, your IMEI-number and the type of your mobile phone.
We hope to have informed you sufficiently.
Yours sincerely,
XXXXXX
Contact Centre Employee
Wow!
XK

Lots of words that answer nothing. I suspect you were sent a form reply that the service tech thinks most closely matches your request.

Sorry, but I think you're being a drama queen. You asked the wrong department about finding a retail location for a product that isn't available in all areas yet and you met with some language issues.
Not really useful for a post here at all.

burhanistan said:
Sorry, but I think you're being a drama queen.
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For a senior member, you're quick on the name calling. Since I am a junior one, I hope this is not the norm around here...
burhanistan said:
You asked the wrong department
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Wrong department?...really...?...The one and only Samsung Support line/email?
Do you suggest I go and circumvent all the Samsung European Support lines (...as I have successful done in my own country...) in an effort to have a clear reply from each country I might consider?
Since I've met with clueless support that even didn't knew the models had been announced when I contacted the "Portuguese" support number and now have been served this answer after contacting the Dutch support line what exactly do you recommend?...Drive to Samsung Europe HQ in Chertsey, Surrey, UK and put the question in person?
burhanistan said:
Not really useful for a post here at all.
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I disagree.
Together with my previous experiences with Samsung (...the same kind of thing happened exactly the same way when I tried to procure an BR/HD-DVD player, the BD-UP5000 a few years ago...), this points out to a kind of "unsupport" people should be aware of.
XK

Heh "Senior Member" just means 100 posts. It's a pointless rank.

Some questions do not have solid answer.
And they can not just said "We dont know" do they?
Even they are Samsung, it doesnt mean they know everything about their own market plan; the HQ may not come up with the release date or release area yet so they really have no info to answer. And again they cant answer "We dont know".
In the end you get a lengthy reply with equal meaning to "We dont know".

I think the technical support provided by Samsung on their Official Site and via telephone and other specialist sites such as their firmware site is normal for a large manufacturer but not outstanding.
The release information of new models such as the 32GB/64GB is probably only known to a few people within the higher echelons of Samsung who will release it when they are ready and that is no different from other manufacturers. However, as someone who is impatient to get ICS I understand how you feel.

GOF007 said:
Some questions do not have solid answer.
And they can not just said "We dont know" do they?
Even they are Samsung, it doesnt mean they know everything about their own market plan; the HQ may not come up with the release date or release area yet so they really have no info to answer. And again they cant answer "We dont know".
In the end you get a lengthy reply with equal meaning to "We dont know".
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Fair enough...at least we know how unorganized they stand.
Since day 1, with the GT-P1000, I can't shake this feeling that Samsung has kind of a "Tsunami" approach to this tablets things...They keep pouring and pouring models out, in "fuzzy" all-out-all-in" approach that even they can't keep pace and track of.
How difficult can it be to announce a model, it's various incarnations and, come the "D" day, have them all in the stores for the customers to choose from?
Apple does it, so...
...as far as the support regarding information about their product goes, in my continuous experience, they better get their act together or they will fail miserably short of the top Android tabs global player they're aiming to be.
With Apple in mind and adopting a oriental tone about Samsung, if I may: "No mater how much he may which so, a cat does not become a tiger just because he thinks he can roar".
XK

Even App** will have hard time keeping track of the products if they have so much models and model variations like Sammy.
At the moment App** do not(or can not) release their products at the same time in many countries, and "not at the same time" means many months delay with no solid release date too. There is no official "The New iPad" here yet in Thailand and also many other countries.

GOF007 said:
Even App** will have hard time keeping track of the products if they have so much models and model variations like Sammy.
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Precisely!
GOF007 said:
At the moment App** do not(or can not) release their products at the same time in many countries, and "not at the same time" means many months delay with no solid release date too. There is no official "The New iPad" here yet in Thailand and also many other countries.
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Don't even go there...there's no comparison.
Apple announced the 3rd generation iPad March 7th, 2012. They announced 6 models x 2 colors.
On the 16th of March it was released in the US. All 6 models, in two colors.
Since then, it has steadily been released across the globe in 55 different counties (Thailand will added to the list soon, as I understand it)
All the announced 6 models. In the announced 2 colors.
We're talking a flawless launch at global scale in about 2 months.
If I decided right now to buy one, I would have it delivered at my door, from Apple Portugal within 5 working days. No inquiries. No endless searches. No clueless "support" operators.
Just one of the 6 models in one of the 2 colors I would have chosen from.
...All I am saying is that Samsung really goes the extra mile for us, their customers, to feel alienated.
If it wasn't for the obnoxious format, the inferior display (for photography) and the "gated", non-adaptive-fully-exclusive philosophy behind their products I know which "buy" button, I would be clicking right now...
XK

As cold as the reply you got from Samsung it seems to be, they are telling you the truth. 32GB and 64GB version of SGT 7.7 exists, but are not selling on global scale. I have been told they launched them in India, but beyond that I have little knowledge with. As it was not intended to be a global launch, a direct comparison with iPad is not quite appropriate.
For a heavy user like myself I think 16GB version is sufficient, though I wouldn't mind extra 48GB if it's available.

For a company that exists to sell things, they shouldn't make it so hard to buy their things. They should have a database of products and where to get them. Not, 'I don't know, you figure it out.'
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reverendbill said:
For a company that exists to sell things, they shouldn't make it so hard to buy their things. They should have a database of products and where to get them. Not, 'I don't know, you figure it out.'
Sent from my SCH-I815 using XDA Premium HD app
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I don't know about Samsung, but some other vendors operating on international scale would actually discourage their staff from releasing products information like pricing and availability outside their own region. This is called regional market segmentation, its purpose is to maximize profit on their own region. (Yes, I know Apple is an exception, because they tend to sell at perpetual high price)
Say, they won't want to let customers in Hong Kong know that they could get a 64G version in India for half the price of 16G in Hong Kong. (Just an example, not for real )

九千. said:
As cold as the reply you got from Samsung it seems to be, they are telling you the truth. 32GB and 64GB version of SGT 7.7 exists, but are not selling on global scale. I have been told they launched them in India, but beyond that I have little knowledge with. As it was not intended to be a global launch, a direct comparison with iPad is not quite appropriate.
For a heavy user like myself I think 16GB version is sufficient, though I wouldn't mind extra 48GB if it's available.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, I don't think you've read the reply right.
To the question "When and where would this product be available in the Netherlands" they replied by, basically, sending me on a wild-goose chase around the country (mine?).
This is no way to treat anyone in any kind of relation, let alone for a manufacturer to treat its clients.
I buy a lot of electronics and photography related items and, I can assure you, this is not the norm.
Once contacted, the manufacturers usually check when and where the requested item is available, or where it will be or, if permanently not available, informs what the limitations are.
...In fact, this was the very same logical and respectful approach I got from Samsung Portugal, once I figured how to talk directly to them !
It's just this "Official Support" masquerade that they have put in place that behaves in this unsporting way.
XK

hi, I also wanted to buy it from Netherlands but got it the last minute somewhere else. But I did find that dixons.nl had good customer support and actally answered my emails, give it a try

XDAKhan said:
Sorry, I don't think you've read the reply right.
To the question "When and where would this product be available in the Netherlands" they replied by, basically, sending me on a wild-goose chase around the country (mine?).
This is no way to treat anyone in any kind of relation, let alone for a manufacturer to treat its clients.
I buy a lot of electronics and photography related items and, I can assure you, this is not the norm.
Once contacted, the manufacturers usually check when and where the requested item is available, or where it will be or, if permanently not available, informs what the limitations are.
...In fact, this was the very same logical and respectful approach I got from Samsung Portugal, once I figured how to talk directly to them !
It's just this "Official Support" masquerade that they have put in place that behaves in this unsporting way.
XK
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Click to collapse
I actually side with you, but not in the obvious way that you could notice. I think I should make my stance on all these for you now.
The guilt in Samsung is too deep that there is no manageable way to right the wrong they have done to you. I was so furious when I came to the part where they gave you a Brazilian-Portuguese speaking support while all you were asking is a less Brazillian one. I would be pretty upset and frustrated if I were given a Putonghua Chinese speaking support while they they have full-knowledge of my Cantonese Chinese speaking habit. That is a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y o-u-t-r-a-g-e-o-u-s.
You deserve better, but damage is done. If I were you, I would not give them the privilege of abusing me any further, by refusing to use any of their product, A-N-Y-M-O-R-E! They will regret having losing a valuable customers like you very soon. Mark my words.

same thing for me around the time the tab plus was released. I called multiple samsung reps, chatted online scoured all the websites. For a few days I believed there would be no 3G version with voice.
Until someone on Xda sent me the link where he bought his in malaysia.
Since then I have absolutely given up on their support.
I had even said, I understand the 3G version will not likely come to US, as the first one didnt make it, and I can understand that, but is there anywhere in the world, I said; that "might" (hint) be selling these?
they're a bunch of parrots reading from their computers or manuals.

九千. said:
I actually side with you, but not in the obvious way that you could notice. I think I should make my stance on all these for you now.
The guilt in Samsung is too deep that there is no manageable way to right the wrong they have done to you. I was so furious when I came to the part where they gave you a Brazilian-Portuguese speaking support while all you were asking is a less Brazillian one. I would be pretty upset and frustrated if I were given a Putonghua Chinese speaking support while they they have full-knowledge of my Cantonese Chinese speaking habit. That is a-b-s-o-l-u-t-e-l-y o-u-t-r-a-g-e-o-u-s.
You deserve better, but damage is done. If I were you, I would not give them the privilege of abusing me any further, by refusing to use any of their product, A-N-Y-M-O-R-E! They will regret having losing a valuable customers like you very soon. Mark my words.
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Zzzzzttt...
(The sound a fly makes when, wondering aimlessly through the air, stumbles upon one of those bright blue contraptions.)
XK

zazonk said:
hi, I also wanted to buy it from Netherlands but got it the last minute somewhere else. But I did find that dixons.nl had good customer support and actally answered my emails, give it a try
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Click to collapse
Hmmm...it seems they don't have it, like everyone else across Europe.
For a moment I had some hopes, as some Swiss and Austrian sites listed a 32Gb version, but it was also a hoax. All the ones I contacted said they had none and didn't know when they might have.
Dixon NL has a very nice price for the 16GB one, though...Maybe I cave in the next weeks, while over there and just get one of those.
Meanwhile, the announced new Toshiba featuring a SuperAMOLED display is just adding more options for my decision...
XK

Take it easy guys. If you don't like Samsung, vote with your wallet and buy an iPad. You'll get better support.

Is America Screwed when it comes to Samsung?

First of all I am not what I would call a fan boy even though every major appliance in my house is a Samsung, even the dishwasher. I have an S3 phone and the Note 10.1 is my constant companion. Lately I have been wondering as we wait for JB update (both phone and tablet) if the Apple ruling in the USA is hampering the speed that we are getting Samsung updates or software. Hell, you can barely get any accessories for the Note 10.1 in the US much less an update. There are even issues with some software available on the the Samsung app store that due to licensing issues Samsung can't sell in the US but the rest of the world has full access.
I love my tablet and would not trade it for any other. Works great as it is and if JB never came I would be fine. However, I think that it is possible we will see a much different user experience here in the states over the next few years when it comes to Samsung Tablets and Phones than the rest of the world. Until Apple gets off the crack pipe and stops litigating every electronic item that comes out we may have an issue.
Thoughts?

rap6388 said:
...if the Apple ruling in the USA is hampering the speed that we are getting Samsung updates or software.
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It's just Samsung's priorities or lack thereof. HTC's just as bad. And both typically launch updates internationally first so our friends overseas aren't getting something we're not since other than the one German carrier ROM no Note has JB. The JB roll-out on the SGS3's not going particularly well and the One X JB update went back to the drawing board after problems were encountered when it was rolled out to the first region to receive it (Taiwan). So it’s the update process that sucks and the U.S. is just along for the ride.
Hell, you can barely get any accessories for the Note 10.1 in the US
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Or Europe. The car dock for the GN was released nine months after it was shown. Same thing for the wireless charging station for the SGS3. The U.S. actually got the book cover for the Note before Europe. The accessory line is just mismanaged; I don't think the U.S. fares better or worse than the rest of the world. And again, HTC's the same. Kind of makes you wonder why they offer accessories at all if they don't want to sell them.
I think that it is possible we will see a much different user experience here in the states over the next few years when it comes to Samsung Tablets and Phones than the rest of the world.
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Click to collapse
You need to separate tablets and phones. Phones are always going to be a cluster here in the U.S because Samsung doesn't sell unlocked phones directly and the carriers here are notorious for their lack of urgency for getting updates out. The U.S. Wi-Fi Note is a Samsung direct device and so far hasn't been treated better or worse than its international relatives when it comes to updates. Samsung customizes the s/w by region for each device they sell. The U.S. is just another region and a big one at that. Certain Android features are blocked in the U.S. by both Samsung and HTC but so far that hasn’t appeared to affect the update schedule one way or the other.

Don't you guys never heard abaut ebay (de or gb). And considering on updates, sammobile page is available on whole earth.

No, its the same everywhere else. I'm in the uk and have received 0 updates.

im in egypt and no update
i wish the give the update to world wide very soon

I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.

rap6388 said:
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
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The Samsung App store not being able to manage payments in the U.S. is an infrastructure issue that has nothing to do with Apple. They've said U.S. payments will be in enable in Q1 2013. And the "billion dollar ruling" is a drop in the bucket; they made $7.4B in profit in Q3 of this year alone. By raising Apple's chip prices 20% they probably covered it if they indeed ever have to pay it. The Note V will be out by the time appeals are exhausted. If Samsung's not doing something or not doing it right it's because their Samsung. They get a lot right but they get a lot wrong too.

rap6388 said:
I don't think I was clear. This is not about the JB update but just Samungs' position in the market right now with Apple hanging over their head based on the over the top billion dollar ruling.
For example, there is an app in Samsung market called DirectOffice Print. It is a great print app but the US owner can't buy the app on the app store because of contract issues Samsung has in the US. It is items like this and features that the US seem to miss that I am speaking of.
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Click to collapse
Well, as much as I hate to say it, this is how Sammy does business.
It's worse if you're in Canada.
Samsung Canada has a reciprocal agreement with Samsung USA not to sell to each other's market. But Samsung Canada doesn't feel there's much demand in Canada for computer products - just phones... (although it is getting better - we now have netbooks... Yes, that was sarcasm...) so we either get Samsung products late or not at all. And even though we're right on the border - we can cross border shop - we can't buy the products in the US online and have it shipped.
Ironically, Samsung opened their first North American full time store in Metrotown Mall in Burnaby British Columbia Canada (a suburb of Vancouver).but they can't show most of their products because they're not available in Canada and you can't buy them from the US.
And even though Canada uses the same cell and WiFi frequencies as the US, we get 'special' verisons of their products that block us from getting updates at the same time as the US. (That's why there's a GN 8010 AND a GN 8013 that are essentially identical). I had the same problem with my Galaxy Nexus phone - the Canadian version is a yakjuux which is supported (barely) by Samsung rather than the yakju version that's supported by Google directly,.
Like you - most of my hardware is Samsung - simply because they build exactly what I want. No one else does. But it means I have to drive to the US and buy these over the counter and drive them back, or have a friend in the US ship it to me.
I may like Samsung's products - but the company sucks...
Side note: Also, they're lousy at getting accessories in big box stores like Best Buy and Future Shop up here... I was trying to get a Note 10.1 Book case and the Samsung Store was out. They recommended going to BB or FS and I had to point out that neither of them actually carry any Samsung accessories - hell, it's hard enough finding the Note 10.1 in some of them...

I should have learned my lesson when I had my Tab 10.1, took them a year to update it to ICS. By the time they did that, I had been using unofficial ROM for about 4 months (give or take). Not acceptable. This is definitely my last Samsung tablet, even though I love it dearly. Samsung don't deserve one single dime for their awful commitment to customer's satisfaction.

Gotta get Nexus
if you want the latest ROMS

mrdaco said:
Don't you guys never heard abaut ebay (de or gb). And considering on updates, sammobile page is available on whole earth.
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That's not a solution. If I wanted to buy from unreliable and potentially shady resellers - I'd buy at Best Buy.
At least they have a return policy...
The point is that if you're going to make products, you should support them well. Or at all. Samsung is the leader in sales for smartphones and are rapidly growing in market share for tablets... yet they still can't get Best Buy to carry cases for their phones or tablets. All you get is the usual wall after wall of iDevice crap.
Best Buy isn't a charity - they carry what they think will sell - or what the manufacturer will pay them to carry (yes, surprise - manufacturers pay for special displays and 'endcaps' as well as for preferred positioning - higher on a shelf for example). Samsung has to spend a bit more to get the visibility Apple gets. They have to realise that customer support is more than just having a lousy website that's more about selling more product than about supporting the customers they already have...
But 'return customer' and 'customer loyalty' seems very low on Asian hardware maker's minds, it would seem.

TheWerewolf said:
But 'return customer' and 'customer loyalty' seems very low on Asian hardware maker's minds, it would seem.
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The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
Samsung - Means well but gets caught up in their enormity. Their priority is clearly future sales but they generally tend to treat the existing customer base well. There are exceptions and the OG G-Tab update to ICS is a good one. By offering dozens of different s/w types on a single device they make their own life more difficult. Rolling out updates across regions is a cluster because of it. They have terrific warranty service and will pay roundtrip shipping for repairs and replace a device with a new one if parts aren't available. They suck at the number of accessories offered and making them available in a timely manner. Their products are generally well put together using premium components.
HTC - Has really been trying to get updates out more quickly and with better quality. The One X has been updated to three new Android versions and has gotten three new versions of Sense since March. In spite of that it still takes too long to get updates out and they've had some pretty bad s/w that's been deployed without being thoroughly tested. Their warranty service is hit or miss depending on region. The U.S. isn't too bad and they do seem to try to get things right. They have a really nice variety of accessories; good luck trying to find them in stock anywhere. Their products are made from premium components but they've had a lot of QC issues with their latest devices. Good examples are extremely well made. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
LG - Their support in the U.S. is atrocious and the rest of the world is a mixed bag. An alarming number of their products over the past two years have had design and h/w issues. Examples are overheating, spontaneous rebooting, boot loops, and sporadic wireless performance. Both the new Optimus G and N4 have thermal throttling issues so it doesn't seem like much has changed. The HTC Droid DNA has the same chip set and isn't experiencing similar issues. They are absolutely atrocious at updates. They offer few accessories and what's offered is impossible to find. Their devices are built well but it doesn't matter if they have fatal design flaws. The customer has to pay to ship a device to LG for repair.
Asus - They put more effort in to serving their existing customers than any other Android manufacturer. They are quick to update their devices, have representatives commenting on XDA, and try to address issues they're made aware of. Their warranty service is atrocious with frequent claims of "customer induced damage" for known issues. It can take weeks to get a device repaired and it's difficult to get an accurate status. Customers pay shipping to get the device to Asus. Their products are made from inferior and in some cases outdated components. They also have an abnormally high number of QC issues. The latter two elements along with crappy repair service sort of negate their customer service efforts. They offer a few basic accessories that seem to be generally more available compared to other manufacturers. When they introduce a new device its a cluster trying to find it and, because they're offered in multiple colors, finding the matching keyboard. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.
Sony - There are tied with LG for being worst at keeping their devices updated. I'm not familiar with their mobile device service but I've used them for PC service and they've been very responsive. Their products are generally well made but always seem to be a cycle behind everyone else design, feature and s/w wise. They tend to do well with offering accessories and making them readily available but they are very expensive.
Motorola - Their support of existing customers is tragic compared to the Asians. Even after Google acquired them they announced that late-2011 high-end devices that they promised upgrades to ICS for wouldn't be receiving them. They offered affected customers $100 off a future Motorola phone instead. They are also worse than the Asians at updates they do roll out. Their warranty and repair service is generally good. Their products are well made but MotoBlur is considered the worst of the overlays. It has been toned down on newer phones but is still far less complete than Sense or TW. They offer quite a few accessories but they are quite expensive. They are fairly easy to find. But in comparing Motorola to the Asians their complete lack of regard for existing customers makes them the worst of a bad lot. They don't provide warranty support for devices that have had their bootloaders unlocked.​
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?

BarryH_GEG said:
The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
...
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
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Click to collapse
Sounds like Samsung should hire Asus to support their products and Asus should get Samsung build their products.

Vincent9756 said:
Sounds like Samsung should hire Asus to support their products and Asus should get Samsung build their products.
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Here's the difference between Asus and Samsung/HTC when it comes to updates. Asus is the hands-down winner for getting updates out the door the fastest. But in doing so, it takes at least three subsequent updates to make the initial update complete. Samsung and HTC are painfully slow but (usually) the updates they get out are pretty solid. By that time, because Asus had to update the update multiple times, they arrive at the same place at the same time. Kind of a "tortoise vs. the hare" thing.

BarryH_GEG said:
The h/w business is almost entirely Asian with the exception of Apple, Nokia, and Motorola. We've discussed update priorities, accessory availability, and general attention to existing customer's needs. Only Motorola sells Android devices so it's them vs. the Asians if you want to draw a comparison. I've owned devices from Motorola and most of the Asian manufacturers. Here's my conclusion: they all suck in the three categories we're discussing. Let's add a fourth category; product quality. Here's my quick assessment:
...
So, at the end of the day, there aren't really any stand-out winners. Toshiba, Acer, and Lenovo are bit players based on the low volume of devices they sell so I haven't included them. From general observation they aren't typically known to be any better or worse than the companies I've described. So balancing all four criteria Samsung and HTC, IMHO, are the best of a bad lot (at least in the Android world). Since Samsung seems to be taking over the Android world any way we might not have to worry about comparisons for very much longer.
Thoughts? Personal experiences?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I wasn't actually making a 'Western vs Asian' comparison - although rereading what I wrote, it does come across that way. Unfortunately, Apple is kind of the bar for support, quality and attention to detail, even with their recent decline in all three areas.
But my experiences with HP, for example - with their Slate 500 was odd - they had delivery problems, but they really went the extra mile to make up for it. In fact, in my own case, they ended up giving me almost a 30% discount for being late. I didn't even ask for it. They did screw up by choosing n-Trig for the digitiser - but at the time, it seemed a logical choice.
I only have one major experience with Dell - I bought an Axion Windows Mobile PDA that failed. They sent me a box in which to return it at no cost... and a new unit along with the box - also at no cost.
Of course, I have a Transformer Prime - and it's such a mixed bag of hurt and happy. As you note - the device feels right - and they got a lot right about it. It has the best USB driver support of any tablet out there. It provides enough USB power to run a hard drive. The dock is brilliant. And then they mess up something as basic as the GPS, WiFi and Bluetooth. And I think most of us could have dealt with that - if Asus hadn't utterly botched their response to the problem by essentially admitting the problem, then failing to fix it, then claiming the GPS wasn't meant for serious use (commerical GPS? What?) then trying to erase history by removing the feature from the box, then sending everyone a free GPS dongle that was just horribly thought out... and didn't fix the WiFi or BT issues. To add insult to injury - they announce a replacement pair of Transformers with the problem fixed... just two weeks after finally shipping the Prime - which was late. But the Infinity was supposed to be $100 more (which kind of took some of the pain away) - only to finally ship at the exact same price as the Prime.
Oh.. and then just after getting the dongle, the Prime's back camera died and that took a month to get repaired...
That's a lot of bad PR and bad customer support in one ball of hurt.
I bought an HTC Surround - the design made it impossible to remove the back without holding the screen which is on a slider. I sent it back after just two months of ownership because after upgrading to WP7.5 the screen started to act oddly.They claimed that the strain on the screen damaged it and refused to repair or replace it under warranty - demanding $250.
Which brings us back to Apple for a moment - I bought an iPhone 3G and two weeks afters the warranty expired, the 3G radio fried. When I took it back, they refused service - but offered refurb replacement.. also for $250. I asked if I could pay extra and upgrade to the 3Gs, but they refused claiming that their agreement with the cellco prohibited that. You'll pardon me when I get annoyed at people who go on about how great Apple's customer support is and how 'they'll replace or repair broken devices, even if they're a little over warranty...' Riiiight.
So, yes, as much as I hate to say it - at the moment, Samsung is the least evil current choice....
But it's definitely not what I would call a great choice...

TheWerewolf said:
Apple is kind of the bar for support, quality and attention to detail, even with their recent decline in all three areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree. Part of it is because Apple's a marketing culture. They have always believed that pulling customers in with an excellent experience (h/w, s/w, content, support) and not relegating the control of the experience to others would lead them to loyalty, advocacy, scale, and profit. Looking at their market cap you can't argue with their approach. But their stock's dropped 20% since September while Samsung's been selling record numbers of devices and reeling in record profits. Samsung is no Apple and I don't think they'd ever be able to adapt that culture. But Apple's begun to bore people by sticking to their formula while everyone else is offering bolder more individualized experiences. The aging of Apple's demographic and adoption of Android by younger market segments doesn't bode well for Apple's future. At some point they are going to have to do something interesting and it isn't making the iPhone's display taller. Remember their famous "1984" commercial and the "think different" campaign? They've become what they used to parody.

I'm from Australia and thought much the same particularly with accessory availability. Then I moved to kenya of all places. Here Samsung is the undisputed champion. Nobody has an Iphone. Everyone has Samsung. Accessories are everywhere. All the major Supermarkets have a phone shop inside them and nearly all carry accessories en masse.
It makes an enormous difference to the functionality and usefulness of the product when you can do things like plug a flash drive into it or plug it into your TV. There are also many dedicated Samsung shops around the place. Although for some reason they seem to get the products later than the other retailers.
Samsung can definitely get it right in certain regions. I'm not sure why it struggles in others
Sent from my GT-N8000 using xda app-developers app

Simple, its what the public wants... Or thinks it wants...
Samsung have started to push out adverts here in Oz, especially S3 and SGNote 10.1, now when you rarely ever used to see their phones advertised. Apple was everywhere...
The shops are simply responding to what the customers want... Everyone was buying apple products, so naturally you stock Apple accessories with a few other brand accessories too. But if the lions share of customers want Apple products, why would you stock with only a few Apple accessories and have a whole heap of stuff you can't sell because the perceived market isn't there? That would be, from a sellers point of view, madness...
Until public opinion and buying habits shift noticeably then we are stuck with shops full of Crapple merchandise. When Android becomes a major seller, this is where standardisation is good, then we'll see the stock move to that area instead as profit drops for Apple stock... Unfortunately there's still a perception among retailers that Apple is an easy sell... That and the fact that there are a million different types of android tablet and phones out in the world, and there's only so many things they are prepared to stock while generally all Apple stuff fit or was useable by all apple customers... Until Iphone 5 that is...

The issue as I have always understood it has many sides. First Apple builds their OS for their devices, no one else gets it no other hardware can run it so they only have to optimize and remove features based on the generation of the device (3GS, 4, 4S, etc) and what will and won't work.
Now for Android OEM's they have a couple of challenges. First Google makes the OS and unless you are chosen for a Nexus launch you won't get the new OS in its finished state until after that (don't recall when JB 4.1.1 came out) so they have to wait.
Then the OEM's have to decide which devices can and cannot run the software based on the crippled (carrier specified hardware in the USA) so devices that are less than a year old get screwed over (HTC 2012 and 2011). Then they have to make sure their drivers work since not ever one of their phones (and tablets) uses the same processor or family of processors so we have Texas Instruments, Qualcomm, Samsung, Intel, etc. Then the priority is always given to the latest hardware going out the door since you want your newest hardware to (hopefully) be running the most current OS you had in the pipeline, or in our case JB 4.1.1. Then they start to update for devices they can support.
Now what I see as a huge issue and is the heart of fragmentation is Google's failure to set standards and timelines from both the OEM's and Carriers (USA are the offenders here) to deliver the OS updates. Google should be collaborating with the OEM's to enforce software rollouts. They could also put forth some type of awareness campaign to insure users are in the know and can have an expectation from their carrier and OEM that they will get that update. Oh wait that was the Android Alliance crap announced last year that did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
For me I would be fine with my GN 10.1 and soon GN 2 running some iteration of JellyBean hopefully 4.2 so it has the enhanced security features etc.

BarryH_GEG said:
I totally agree. Part of it is because Apple's a marketing culture. They have always believed that pulling customers in with an excellent experience (h/w, s/w, content, support) and not relegating the control of the experience to others would lead them to loyalty, advocacy, scale, and profit. Looking at their market cap you can't argue with their approach. But their stock's dropped 20% since September while Samsung's been selling record numbers of devices and reeling in record profits. Samsung is no Apple and I don't think they'd ever be able to adapt that culture. But Apple's begun to bore people by sticking to their formula while everyone else is offering bolder more individualized experiences. The aging of Apple's demographic and adoption of Android by younger market segments doesn't bode well for Apple's future. At some point they are going to have to do something interesting and it isn't making the iPhone's display taller. Remember their famous "1984" commercial and the "think different" campaign? They've become what they used to parody.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just gotta say: iCustomers are snobby, horribly wretched, self-absorbed "high designer" wanna-be's. Apple's hw is far from impeccable, the sw is strangling. They're good at glamour (making something appear far better than it actually is). Samsung is unfortunately trying to cut into that crowd, and I think they'd do better to provide a strong counter position: a tablet that lasts for years instead of 6 months. A phone that makes it to the next upgrade cycle (like the gNex).
Early 20th century design principles (built to last decades-- ie heirloom quality) should be a global standard....yes I know I'm pipe dreaming here....
Apple IMO has made it difficult for Samsung to really get behind its own products in the US, but it's jot just apple, mobile device carriers have lobbied our government, fcc, and individual manufacturers to NOT release things like the p6800 or the n8000 because carriers want you to buy a phone AND a tablet with a data plan, not just a tabletnwith telephony hardware... so f***ing sick of our markets being manipulated by the big players, people don't even know that there ARE tablets available with telephony hw... blah...
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HTC financial woes

i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408

I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.

Would now be a great time to buy stocks in HTC?

simba2585 said:
i hope the One really helps HTC, but the delays are doing no favours
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/08/us-htc-earnings-idUKBRE93706620130408
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I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
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aydc said:
I don't know what the fuss is all about. They are always posting profits. Less profits yes, but they are always in the black. Many companies go for years posting losses quarter after quarter. HTC has no problems as long as they are in profit each quarter.
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Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
In February, HTC revised their Q1 2013 guidance down to a level so low that it spooked analysts to the point there was a run on HTC's stock that triggered stop-sales on the TW exchange it's listed on (twice) because the amount of volume being sold and the stock's price decline triggered electronic safeguards. The revenue guidance HTC provided for Q1 that caused the stock fall was between NT$50 billion and NT$60 billion. Those are numbers provided by HTC less than eight weeks ago. The number they actually posted today was NT$42.8 billion. So not only did they miss the low-end of their own guidance they've demonstrated an inability to forecast their business. The latter's actually more troubling to analysts than the miss in revenue. And keep in mind that revenue is accounted for when devices are shipped to resellers; not when they are purchased by end consumers. So HTC's shipping rate is what caused the miss, not the sales or popularity of the One. And that they didn't know within an eight week span how deep their component issues were causing them to issue erroneous guidance is indeed troubling.
Operating margin (profit) was 1/10 of 1% of revenue for the first three months of 2013. You don't have to be a finance expert to know that's not sustainable. And the One's delay has put it right up against the launch of the SGS4 which will be accompanied by wider distribution and Samsung's gazillion dollar marketing budget. Apple's also launching the iP5S and possibly a lower-priced device in June according to analyst's speculation. Neither of those things is going to be good for HTC's full-year revenue. The analysts expect HTC to benefit from the One's sales in Q2 but that they'll decline again in the remaining quarters of the year. 30 out of 33 analysts have a "sell" rating on HTC's stock.
Their financial position was 25% better than today last August when the Taiwanese government began talks of bailing HTC out rather than letting them fail. HTC cannot continue to exist the way it does today and a single positive quarter based on the success of single device can't reverse their fortunes enough to change that. So it's highly unlikely they'll go out of business but some type of government intervention accompanied by a restructuring or merger or JV with another company are pretty much a given.
With stiff competition from Apple and Samsung, HTC has posted some less than stellar numbers the past few quarters. The company is still profitable, but its decline in sales and revenue have contributed significantly to Taiwan’s five months of decline in exports which saw a drop in July of 11.6% from a year earlier. HTC may be about to receive help from the Taiwanese government as it looks to turn its fortunes around after slipping away in the smartphone market recently. According to the Commercial Times, Taiwan's Central Bank Governor, Perng Fai-nan raised the issue during a meeting with government officials, suggesting it stepped in and offered assistance to the manufacturer. Perng noted that HTC's declining sales had had a knock-on effect with Taiwan's exports, which have also witnessed a decline in recent months. During the meeting, Perng apparently went on to say that the financial status of HTC is "of vital importance to the islands' gross domestic product". The Taiwanese government is taking this issue seriously, with an unnamed official reportedly saying the Ministry of Economic Affairs is already considering various ways to help out HTC.
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/ph...htc-could-receive-government-bail-out-1091781​These numbers show the production shortage really is that bad, and my sense is that it won’t get much better in the second quarter because many of those issues continue,” said Dennis Chan, an analyst at Yuanta Securities Co. in Taipei, who recommends selling the stock. “For smartphones, timing is everything and the delay means they lose that timing.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...w-profit-after-latest-smartphone-delayed.html​Profit is likely to recover in the second quarter as HTC One sales increase, said Daiwa Securities analyst Birdy Lu. The company has been touting the camera's performance in low light, and plans to more than double advertising spending under a new marketing chief. "HTC's whole schedule was thrown into disarray because of the HTC One, which meant it didn't have the revenue coming in but still had a lot of fixed costs," Mr. Lu said. "There will be some improvement this quarter in terms of the bottom line, but they still face a lot of competition."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...38196.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection​

htc is dying.
i bet samsung and apple are eager to buy htc for their patents and maybe blueprints

I'm sitting here fully perplexed
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
and yet in all honestly i dont care their financial woes
yes if they go away it will be a loss to the smartphone especially since they are the most unique OEM
but really why should I care all I want is the bloody device and 18months of support, the quality of the device and the software is guaranteed so why should I care about their money again?
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
I prefer a zealous challenged OEM over a relaxed arrogant one

hamdir said:
some of you call me HTC biggest fanboy
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But always in a "good" way. You've helped more people than 90% of those on XDA (including me).
honestly if anything Samsung's monopoly and money making is not really reflecting in better quality to the product
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Being huge doesn't guarantee continued success; at least not at the same historic velocity. Look what Samsung's success has done to Apple's stock. And with more cash in the bank than 2/3 of the world's countries one can't say Apple's not successful. Samsung can't get lazy because if they do there are too many people gunning for them. If Apple does introduce a lower-cost iPhone it's going to kick Samsung in the nuts. And both ZTE and Huawei are gunning for them too. Samsung's only got one target in its sites; Apple. What the other Android device makers do with a collective 30% market share between them doesn't concern them.
If you think about it, there are too many Android manufacturers right now. None on their own is going to catch Samsung because their lead is too wide. If a couple fail or merge leaving Samsung and two strong financially healthy Android competitors it would be much better for competition than having four vendors with fewer than 10% of the market each. The market controls smartphone selling prices. Samsung’s volume makes their component costs significantly lower than their competitors. None of those competitors can continue to offer the same features as Samsung at the same prices and maintain a decent level of profitability on far lower volume. So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.

cjm1979 said:
I hope this thread gets locked, threads likes this really do XDA no favours.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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What's wrong with discussion ?
How is xda affected ?

BarryH_GEG said:
So a “boutique” smartphone maker would end up selling a device with similar functionality at a higher retail price to sustain their profitability. I don’t think that would work that well in such a competitive market. As applies in the jungle, only the strong survive.
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i would love HTC to go this way. willing to pay the premium
i think Sony and HTC are a good match but i dont know how that would work
anyway everyone is downsizing HTC than they really are, regardless of the profits/stock situation, its not really as "wallstreet" black or white as you guys think, its a lot more grey, the same can be said to many of the Asian brands as well
there is definitely a remedy being cooked for their problem but its not really what we are expecting

Great learning on this thread ,its great

@Barry,(didn't wanna quote the whole thesis), you're right, the HTC One success alone cannot bail HTC out of its financial trouble, especially with the iPhone and Galaxy S 4 coming out in Q3 and Q2 respectively. Either they're going to have to be bailed out or merge with another company. 2.8 million in profit is an All time low for HTC. The smartphone industry is a tough one, if you even have 1 off year, it will cost you big time. HTC had 2 off years.

I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.

grukko said:
I'm pretty optimistic about HTC with all the positive press on the One. I myself have owned every generation iphone and it took the HTC One to break the cycle. I have another friend who has always owned iphones and he just purchased four HTC Ones for his family and friends. This thing is going to be a dark horse. Samsung won't know what hit them.
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I'm in the same boat. Just want my Asda order now !!!

BarryH_GEG said:
Public companies like HTC serve their shareholders who buy stock in a company because they feel that stock is going to appreciate over time increasing the size of their investment (profit). Companies reward investors by growing sales, profit margins, and generating cash that's used for reinvestment to further their growth and increasing the market capitalization of the company. Doing so makes their stock appreciate which rewards the investors that placed their faith in them. This is HTC’s 2-year stock performance as of today.
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Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
HTC is not gonna vanish anytime soon. just chillax. my company has been in huge losses for four years straight (we suppy chipsets to mobile makers) and yet are there (while we are much much smaller than even HTC). somebody always bails you out. Or otherwise also, all it takes is one blockbuster product and you are back in the game. Sony got that with XZ (they were in losses earlier). Very few companies are making any money in this business anyway but they are all hanging in there.

I don't know. I'm reconsidering what to buy after this.

joslicx said:
Then what would you say about Apple who have lost about $300 Billion worth of shareholder money in this time?
Or the fact that Galaxy S4 is being seen as Samsung's iphone5 moment! Apple played safe with iphone5 and historically it has broken sales records. Apple is flush with money, yet financial markets are unimpressed. Apple is no more innovative!
Samsung has done nothing with S4 but ape Apple iphone5 (that is to say play it safe). Interestingly the day S4 was announced by Samsung, Apple stock rose and investors cheered as S4 is NOT seen as much of a big threat to Apple as it could have been!
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The difference is that apple and Samsung have big budgets and lots of money, they can afford some type of loss, HTC cannot. You said it yourself, apple played it safe with the iPhone 5 and yet they broke records sales. Do you think apple care about the lack of innovation? No, not as long as they keep selling they don't. For Samsung, the S4 is getting more preorders than the S3 in the UK alone, those are good signs and remember again both companies have lots of money and are coming from big quarters.
It isn't about them though, it's about HTC. They have a great product with the One, everybody in the tech world recognizes it so there is no doubt. The question is is it too late?

At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
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sabre31 said:
At the end of the day it will be Samsung and apple left. Rest will fold and fail. Of course Google will continue to release nexus line which is stock but always mediocre hardware.
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Lets pray that it doesn't happen, it would really make me sick. I love choices and competition.

HTC and Sony should stay alive. Sony will be for sure because they're a strong company. Can't say the same about htc. It'd be a shame if they fail.