Related
http://code.google.com/android/
incase anyones not familiar with android, check that site out.
im not sure why there isnt more development or developers that are going after this in terms of getting it working on all devices? im currently using it on my vogue and its amazing. definately better UI in terms of EVERYTHING. its open source, so i think developers should be all over this! has so much potential its kind of ridiculous
vogue thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=382265
its working about 80% now thanks to amazing developer martin.
the browser and everything (overall UI) are so much better and smoother than windows mobile! and being that its open source with google ENCOURAGING development of apps and themes and skins and whatnot, i think this is the next best thing to happen to ppc's.
THIS is the actual iphone killer.
just some samples
on a vogue (very smooth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0z9bWiAT44
just a demo of the browser (mine is actually a little smoother than this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FpDDEVWtk
the reason im posting this here is because i was the first one to post in this section with manilla2d (when udk first released it), asking whether we can get this on other devices, and look what happened with that. if we can get the amazing developers from here to work on this like they worked on m2d, then wow this will be amazing!
Yeah, even I'm suprised at the low level of excitement of porting this to all devices. Hoping for some real development . Btw, those videos are pretty impressive.
Akshay
Yeah... I'm a little surprised too.
I have a Vogue now, so I'm OK, but I'd love to see somebody pick this project up for the Touch Pro. It seems to be very similar to the G1, so the porting would be a lot more complete than the porting to the Vogue.
Hopefully somebody with the skills (read: not me) will undertake this.
it'll pick up. i say in 6 months to a year people will snap out of the apple app dev craze. but from a dev point of view, apple is where its at right now. the amount of money you could make is a driver by all means.
htc will also be a key part in this. when they start to release better looking hardware, perhaps something on par with the diamond....you'll see a user increase. and user increase translate into dev interest. so just hang in there....i think you'll get what you want soon.
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
S.V.I said:
because it makes no sense to port androud to a phone that is not 3G with GPS.
the only advantage of the g phone that I saw was the service. 3G and free GPS! i'm like, how much for the puppy in the window?
I honestly think that porting it to my wizard would be senseless.
without the service the gphone is just a phone wothout service.
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Click to collapse
Of course it is always pointless. We do it because we can (and because we don't want to do anything while at work)
(and much like bluemetal, we are all tired of the same old look and functionality in our WM devices). Then again, it can always be worse....
we could all have iphones
Anyways, I am looking forward to someone porting this to the Blue Angel.
The bigest stumbling block for me is lack of Exchange support. GPS isn't really necessary with the cell tower triangulation available. The accuracy is getting better. It will never be as tight as GPS but close is good enough for me. I can do with out 3G (I wish I had it) I don't enjoy the experience with the little screen. It's like looking at the ocean through a porthole. A 5 inch screen with much better resolution would be great. I use it for quick info but surfing is not fun.
I do like the idea of going linux on the phone. It would be that much closer to having a truely mobile desktop. We wouldn't have to install resource hogging shells that ride on top of an already bloated today screen to get better customization.
I think the biggest problem overall though is the hardware needed will put a lot of older equipment like my little wizard out to pasture. I don't have the funds to rush out an purchase a new phone. And yes I think all the bugs will need to be shaken out for a while before I take the plunge. Maybe by the 2nd or third generation of Android things will be a little less "bleeding edge". It all looks great now but I rely on my phone too much to gamble on an untried system.
To be completely honest, I too am suprised by the lack of progress.
This is a complete replacement for Windows Mobile: something we've all only dreamed about up until now. It will have a wicked Dev community around it soon enough.
There were a hell of a lot of efforts to get the Beta running. But now... nothing?
*so confused
The worst part is, it'd be gorgeous on my LG KS20, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon: no one loves us KS20 owners. Guess you were all just jealous of our drivers.
bluemetalaxe said:
A ppc that works only on 80 Percent ? And no additional Software, no outlook syncronisation? Thats at the moment somthing for freaks or people with a second device
If there would be a 100 Percent Android i would install it, believe me, because i´m not very happy with windows anymore.
So i think we must wait and hope.
My next Device in half a year will be hopefully the Touch HD with Android rolleyes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i don't know if you read my whole post, but i never said "hey everyone lets run something 80% finished on our ppcs."
waiting and hoping isnt going to do anything, thats why i started this thread. to get more attention instead of sitting and waiting for something we arent sure is going to ever happen.
im glad a lot of other people are on the same page as me, wondering why there is barely any development for this. thanks for the support guys
lets get some devs in here to weigh in on this!
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
you'd think more people would be starting to port.. because god is that g1 terrible, you have to have sharpened pencils for fingers to type on that flush keyboard)
Mort said:
Well, there's a number of quite simple reasons...
- Porting Android to another device isn't as simple as "Hey, it's Open Source, you just have to compile and install". First of all, you'd need to find a working cross compiler for ARM in the first place (one using Windows' API, like those used for PPC apps isn't much help). Then you'd need to write drivers for usually undocumented hardware with this cross compiler or in ARM assembler (reusing existing WM drivers, like in cooked ROMs, wouldn't work in Linux). Finally, you need to find a way to flash that system to your PPC (that's a bit more work than a patched/cooked variation of an already existing WM ROM), and so on. That's work for the kind of freaks who would do their taxes binary in mind...
- Writing apps for a system almost nobody own so far isn't that attractive. It's even less attractive if the potential developer doesn't own one - the real experience is always a bit different to an emulator, and usually would like some use for himself, too (what good is an mobile app for you if you'd need a laptop with emulator to use it? ). So far, there's only one official Android device out there, and aside from the fact it's still a bit "first try, for developers only" (no Outlook sync, ugly design, ...), you only get it in very few parts of the world or in overpriced eBay auctions. Inofficial ports with reduced functionality and maybe buggy or slow "beta" drivers aren't that great, too...
- While the Android API is quite close to common Java style, it's still something completely new, which requires some time to get into the framework's basic style, the available functions, the loopholes and small tricks, etc. With WM, the gap to common Windows (desktop) programming is way smaller, and I guess it's similar with the iPhone and Mac programming.
Or, in other words: Give Andoid some time to grow up. IMHO, G1 and the few existing ports are a playground for hackers and early adopters, so they can get startet with fixing (security holes, missing functionality, ...). Then, in some months, more devices with a "hacker improved" Android will be published, and when developers buy those, they also will start writing apps if they are missing something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok now these reasons make a lot of sense. im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said. but ok, all of your other reasons make complete sense. im sure the future releases of android will only get better.
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
jakub_w said:
im just surprised that not as many people are trying to get it started so they can get started on fixing, like you said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who knows? AFAIK, the order numbers aren't that bad, and all those reviewers give some feedback, too. I mean, it's only a week since the G1 is available at all, and, as said, it's not very attractive so far. Not everybody wants to spend hundreds of dollars just to provide Google with requests and code changes and T-Mobile and HTC with money...
android just seems like exactly what many of us have been looking for in wm devices, basically, a complete UI replacement endorsed/created by a large company (other than microsoft lol).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the UI is the really big thing about Android. You can even replace it completely, and I don't know (yet) where the limits / design guides are for applications. I just hope it doesn't get as confusing as Linux on the desktop, where even a Gnome or KDE desktop can be modified so far that it's almost as hard to switch distros as switching from Windows to MacOS...
The important things about Android are more in the basic technology, imho, like
- A stable, timeless system core (*nix is older than me, so "modern" is not quite correct - that goes for MacOS X, too, btw...)
- Seamless integration of connection management and phone functions (opposed to WM, where it still acts like a makeshift patchwork, and with every update less APIs are working...)
- Portable application framework (Java, lots of system APIs)
- Simple application installation (no "is this EXE a PC setup or the PPC executable?", "How the hell do I install a CAB file?", ...)
However, I still wonder how/if Andoid will support direct PC synchronization (for shared files, contacts, appointments, music, ...) and how fast and memory consumptive the required Java VM is... (Well, at least none of the G1 reviews I read complained about that, so it seems to be faster than .NET on WM...)
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
jakub_w said:
i was just playing around with android and in the dev tools or api demos theres a section called opengl es. i have a vogue and i tried these, they ran extremely smoothly. isnt this something that everyone has been saying is impossible? (specifically for getting tf3d to run on the vogue) i think this proves that software driven 3d is more than capable of handling tf3d. just a thought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I definitely agree with you on that. Thing is though is that this is a completely different environment with a different set of drivers (and rules) which makes (for example) modifying their parameters to allow for keys normally used for certain functions in WM to be used for something completely different. Also OpenGL (ES) is all that is used on *nix OSes whether or not they run on full or embedded hardware. All that's needed is the driver for the graphics chip. Microsoft wants you to use their proprietary D3D not OpenGL (ES) hence why it was impossible to have OpenGL (ES) before. Also TF3D uses DirectX and not OpenGL ES AFAIK.
Android is great. Only thing I need is a way to get the SDcard image working and a HTC Touch Pro to port Android, Angstrom and/or OpenMoko to, I'd be set.
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
joel2009 said:
why would you develop software for an operating system that isn't even fully ported yet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Weeell....
- It's Linux and Open Source (some people wouldn't touch a closed system with a stick...)
- It's nice to be prepared when you get the running system
- There is a device with that OS
- The documentation is way better than Microsoft's
- There's a good chance the API will remain compatible, so it doesn't hurt to start early (opposed to WM, where some basic features can/could only be done with device dependant or inofficial APIs, which were dropped in newer updates...)
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
timace said:
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
demontefixo said:
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree "first" comments are riduculous, and if you dont like the application from descrption then dont install it...positive criticism is more then welcome but "this sucks" is getting on my nerves...
timace said:
Ok first and foremost this is not just another post of someone complaining, in no way am i trying to offend or criticize this new device...these are simply observations made by a previous HTC owner (MDA/Herald/Wing) me...
I understand that the open source to "create" applications is fairly new not to mention all us G1 owners (ive had mine for lil more then a month). My concern is why are we seeing such "simple" programing in applications and things tht in reality none of us would ever use? Not to mention graphics what is going on...Look i have not created any nor have taken the time to even try to create applications, and if you or someone you know has, then my hats off to you, i envy you for knowing how and taking the time to...what im saying is why do all these new applications have so many bugs and in my opinion (cause that is all it is) are sub-par...i know its not really fair to compare to any other device on the market since it is the first of its kind, but im getting a little skeptical...am i alone in this? i find myself checking the android market every hour hoping for some sign to motivate me, but nothing so far aside from the obvious winners (youtube,maps,imeem,wheather channel etc...)...ill shut up now i sincerely was not trying to stir things up, and know/knew when i purcased the G1 it was the first of its kind and would probably take time to show its full potential, i just thought there were some things google had up its sleeve that were ready...does anyone have any insight or knowledge of better things to come...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree with you; even though i love this phone there are a lot of things i dislike about it. the only advice i can give to you is to be patient. the phone has 'officially' been out for a little under a month and there is already so much improvements to it:
- 2 updates have already been rolled out,
- we have found a Root and a way to manually update it.
- we are beginning to see system folders moved to sdcard to save space(even though the phone should have came with more memory)
apps on the market are getting better i don't if you have seen the app "bubble". bubble is a basic bubble level that uses the accelerometer to see if something is level and changes as the phone changes orientation it may seem like a simple app but it shows that Google came come out with an update that uses the accelerometer to change orientation.
- first signs of on screen keyboards like akeyui, a7email and a7sms.
all of these improvements in about 3 weeks and tons more to come idk what anybody can complain about besides hardware issues
just wait come Jan 2009 the G1 isnt going to be anything like it is today.
demontefixo said:
Personally, I find the plethora of apps encouraging, yes, some are more useful than others but the wide range of effort is fan-flippin-tastic.
MY biggest observation is that the Market place needs some severe MODERATOR intervention... the one star "i is first u goons" and "this app suks (because I am too stupid to read the intro to figure out what it is for) really really really needs to be cleaned up/out. (A perfect example is the UTC clock... it does EXACTLY what it says, true, the numbers in the display look like they are from a missile silo, but hey, it is a tribute to the UTC heritage...anyway, people bag on it because they have no idea why, what, or anything else about it... morons)
[/rant]
--M
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah there need to be some serious clean up in th commenting sections, some of these comments might discourage people from developing apps for the G1, i think comments should strictly about the apps and not about being 1st or 151st, or bashing other commenters, and people definitely should not comment on an app the don't know how to use.
however developers should include directions on how to use their apps so people do not have to rely on commenting to try and figure out what it does and how it does it.
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
brooklynite said:
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
muscle...DiVix...kids...office...flash...basic...bugs
words that stood out and i DEFINATELY agree
as i said before patience is the key here
the reason why there aren't many good programs out right know is because they are still in development, there are some apps that won google's app contest that are not on the market because they are still under development. developers take their to try and come out with a bug free app and you criticize them for taking to long however if they rush it and get it out with SOME bugs people crucify them. how long did you think it took for divx or flash to be developed for other phones?
why do people expect a phone thats been out for under a month to have the same capabilities as phones that been out for years?
how many phone do you know had divx support right out of the box or even one month after release? i estimate that divx support will be out before the end of the year.
i agree that apps on the market are going the the hole, especially with millions of the same type of apps, c'mon how many different weather apps do we need, how many background apps is necessary. but you got to admit out of the hundreds of apps on the market there are some good ones.
I'm waiting with great anticipation on the games for the g1. Sure i want cut copy and paste, document reader, full video player, full file manager and task manager as well as others but i'm dying to play nes games and others on this phone. The market is pretty lame in the games department but hey i got pacman, solitaire, and a few others free so i'm not gonna complain. I think the apps are very promising and there are a wide variety of them. Granted none of the crucial apps are out yet but i have quite a few on g1 that i love and got em all for free!!! We just have to be patient, i knew going in i would have to be.
All the apps are free. The hardware has only been in people's hands for a few weeks (at most). A serious developer, wanting to create the exact apps we're all hoping for, needs a heck of a lot more time. The SDK was fine, but any serious developer is going to want to log a lot of hours with a physical device (or several) to finalize the product.
And they're not going to do all that, for free.
This device has huge potential, and the reason we're seeing amaturish apps is because the only people who are willing to play around with creating apps for free are mostly hobbyists who want feedback to further their skills.
I predict that once the payment system is set up for the Market, the apps you're all stomping your feet about are going to show up.
The programs we're talking about are complex, writing them and testing them is time consuming, and I assume that they're going to be larger than the apps we're seeing now. It's entirely possible that some of these apps are almost finished, but are waiting for SD card loading to be added to the functionality before they can release them. Some may even be delayed by the announcement of the virtual keyboard -- they may want to integrate that for the launch of their apps.
I think two things need to happen before we're going to see the apps we all want.
-Pay system on Android Market
-The Ability for Apps to be installed and run from the SD card.
Until those two things happen, the App Store is going to be like it is. And it's also time you guys thought about something. The apps that are "missing" were never a secret, most of the complaints I see are about things that were known well before launch, or discovered the first week people had it in hand. If you didn't read up, that's your fault. If you read up and assumed things would be taken care of within one to two months (something no one promised you) that's also your fault.
I'll predict something for you right now, in light of the economy and everything else, it'll be 6 months to a year before HALF the apps we want are available and working. Now, that's just my estimate, but if that sounds "too long" to wait, then I'd invest in another phone rather than spending the next 6 months posting complaints like "why isn't _____ done yet? And where's the ______ app?!!"
Just my 2 cents
I have already heard many apps have been developed but the developers are waiting for the pay system which has already been annoucnced and is coming 3 months after launch.
I am similar to you... give it time and you will see the best things you have ever seen. I mean look at Linux... they have some awesome apps on most linux flavors that make me dual boot into linux just to have. I think this device will be the same as this was the entire purpose.
Google is updating features all the time in the git directory and it won't be long before they fix the main issues and then the developers will be looking at new things to give us.
So far the barcode readers alone seem like such a huge advantage as I haven't seen them on mobile devices before(at least none that worked)
brooklynite said:
The point is the development muscle that has been put in the device is minor.I feel like the market is made by kids or teenagers that stopped uploading on youtube and are writing apps using ready made lego kits (APIs). The apps in the market are all basic stuff. There is not even a Divx player for this device available but 5 Video players using the Google provided APIs to play mp4 which only play SOME mp4 files not all.
I love the sliding, bubble and Gmail on it but I cant name too many more things I love. Not even a Navi that works properly. I really cant think of anything else I love about it. No office, word, excel, PDF, flash, divx. The SMS system is grouped together. The actual phone keyboard is beyond basic with no options. There are simply too many bugs on the phone operation itself like bluetooth etc.
Time flies google, we need apps that have more than 10 man-hours of software programming spent on it. Lets stop the growth of many timers and alarms in the market and get some real stuff out there. Microsoft has probably put in millions of development hours into WM and it was not until now that I realized this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you said my answer in your own post. The device has been out less than a month. That's nowhere near enough time to make those killer apps you're talking about. To google's credit they did put in things like street view with the compass mode and there are those apps you've talked about. It takes MONTHS to do real software developement so you're going to keep seeing more and more alarms and stuff until then.
seriously, does ANYBODY give a ratsass or even use streetview?
They should have made sure all the media stuff and the email was topnotcxh.
I agree 100% with the first post! Google should have prepaired Android better. There is a lot of competition out there and I would say by what I've seen so far they are light years behind. I did not expect that with all the money in the world Google couldn't release product that was better polished. I have put my G1 back in its box and I'm back to my unlocked Tilt, what sucks is going back to the old screen and Edge but its functinality that I need. I wish they made some kind of task aplication that I can put on the screen kind of likr thr picture frame that would display my tasks for the day. I have a Motorola ROKR E2 that runs Linux and there are more useful stuff for it out there. I desagree we have to wait untill we start paying for apliications, I believe Google can afford providing us with free functional software as more and more people will be using their services.
i love my g1, but i agree with these people that google didn't do enough...and i hope they're working to fix it.
i think that their whole "leave it in the hands of developers" approach was probably a mistake. they should have made all the basic applications like they did but also gone a step further to spice up the phone. i hope that google, in the new few updates, incorporates some more stuff, like OUTLOOK SYNC (i wuld love it if they changed the google calendar sync for windows into just google sync and have it sync everything with outlook....funambol right now sucks i have like 80 of each contact!)
they also should have made a GOOD video recorder / player, and even a better music player. they're trying to beat apple at multimedia, and are failing miserably.
they should add a decent on-screen keyboard and maybe even a task manager...or make it only have like 4 open tasks in the backgroudn...because i've noticed my g1 slowing down a lot after having a few apps open.
google should add a manual update button...i'm still on RC28 because i dont feel like installing the modified rc30 or plugging it in to update. have a freaking "UPDATE" button in the system info thing or something.
i think google needs more than 3 home screens...i've already filled all of mine up. they also should have added more widgets, like the guy above me said.
SELECTING TEXT SUCKS. i have to use the trackball to select a ltter of a word...on my windows mobile i could just tap on where i wanted it to be and at least it would get me within 1 or 2 letters...if i tap on a word on the g1 nothing happens!
we need to be able to install stuff to the sd card!
i think i'm missing a lot of things but i've only had the phone for 2 days and i've noticed all that...i hope developers DO step in if google is too stupid not to add more basic functionality.
/rant
Look at it this way currently there is no way to charge for apps that are developed. This is why we are seeing nothing but apps programed by independant programers some of which are good and some of which are useless. Once companies can charge for apps then it will make sence to put money into the development of better more porfessional apps. My suggestion is to just hold off on passing judgement untill the market is finished to where people that spend money in development can recoup those losses. I do think that the market place should have been finished before launch but what can you do.
coffeboy23 said:
Look at it this way currently there is no way to charge for apps that are developed. This is why we are seeing nothing but apps programed by independant programers some of which are good and some of which are useless. Once companies can charge for apps then it will make sence to put money into the development of better more porfessional apps. My suggestion is to just hold off on passing judgement untill the market is finished to where people that spend money in development can recoup those losses. I do think that the market place should have been finished before launch but what can you do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agaqin, super lame of google.
We can get a bunch of usless wank programs, but not proepr ones, becasue they don't have the pay market ready.
Also, I think that certain things like exchange and a proper email client shoudl have been included.
And remember most people are new to development, don't know how many "this is my first try" apps I have seen. When you get that one that charges 20 bucks for the app... you will get another developer who will release it free and just ask for donations... I suggest donating whatever you can to the one that gives it free.
Henchman said:
Agaqin, super lame of google.
We can get a bunch of usless wank programs, but not proepr ones, becasue they don't have the pay market ready.
Also, I think that certain things like exchange and a proper email client shoudl have been included.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
neoobs said:
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, but it was google who shoudl ahve made sure that the basics were coveredf well.
The Camera I'm sure can take greta pics, but the controls suck.
The email is severly lacking.
No streaming video.
And they shoudl ahve elarnt form the iPhoen release, that push email fro MsExcahnge should have been there fromt he getgo.
Or the should have built a BB app, just like you can get for WinMo.
No, they focused on teenagers, not professionals.
neoobs said:
google isnt the one entirely in charge of the market... tmobile is the one wanting money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no....google is not taking any money but is giving 30% of all apps sold to the carriers...tmobile might be the one "wanting" money but they have no control over the app store at all.
I have gotten to the point in my project where I can actually see an end. I am sure there is a lot more left to do to wrap up my game, but I wanted to start thinking about the end game for this application(game).
Which brings me here, I was curious what tools/library's/methods indie dev's are using, and your reports on them. Hoping this section will help me decide what to include in my code, and help others too.
I've compiled a very short list. None of which has been tested personally by me. I will update with other people's great ideas. I am sure I have missed quite a few things,
Protecting your App
Obfuscate your code
Helps stop pirating to an extent, pretty easy to implement if articles are anything to go by.
Example:
http://developer.android.com/guide/developing/tools/proguard.html
License Verification Library
Also helps stop pirating, lets you refund people and be reasonably assured they aren't still using the product.
Example:
http://developer.android.com/guide/publishing/licensing.html (Android Licensing Library)
Secure Network communications
Needed if you are handling sensitive data in your app. Probably should be included anyways
Misc
Stat Tracking
Probably your number one way to get feedback from people actually using your app. Want to know if it was worth putting in a pause button that took 3 weeks to code? Record how many people are using it!
Examples:
http://www.flurry.com/ (Flurry)
http://code.google.com/mobile/analytics/docs/android/ (Google Analytics)
SaveToSD
I have not looked into this yet, but if comments on apps/games are anything to go by, this is requested quite often.
Here's another:
Crash reporting
I wouldn't rely on Android Market for crash reports because tools like BugSense and ACRA do a much better job. Personally I use BugSense because I prefer the UI but supposedly ACRA collects more data. If I wasn't using it I would never have known my app was crashing on older HTC models because Android Market just doesn't include that kind of info.
I'm just starting to put these in my app, and BugSense seems almost too good to be true. I'm in the process of testing it now, should help a lot in the coming months. Thanks.
Hi all developers,
We released our EvolutionUI research project as open source. In this project we are experimenting with integrating gamificiation (experience points, achievements, etc) into Android. This should make the phone easier to use and a lot more fun.
Feel free to have a look at the open source project and contribute to make it even better!
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI
Get the full story on Developer World.
/Pál Szász
SW developer at Sony
Hi
pal.szasz said:
Hi all developers,
We released our EvolutionUI research project as open source. In this project we are experimenting with integrating gamificiation (experience points, achievements, etc) into Android. This should make the phone easier to use and a lot more fun.
Feel free to have a look at the open source project and contribute to make it even better!
https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI
Get the full story on Developer World.
/Pál Szász
SW developer at Sony
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting! A very good initiative how can I put the file in my rom?
I actually like the idea a lot. Brings simple 'Fun' to the Android system. For some users it won't be though because there have been times where myself just wanted to dive into my Brand New Android device when I received it. However once I get used to it I get somewhat bored?! Lol, I'm a phone whore so that's definitely why. This might actually help me not want to move on to the 'Next Best Thing' once I get used to my current device.
I like it!:good:
Sound great....
i love the idea!!
Great idea, I actually think this is a great concept. Some users I've noticed find it white hard to get used to Android phones.
With this, they can explore and find out more things about their device yet figure out more about what they can do on it.
So great concept, I'll take a peek at the source
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Marília de Oliveira said:
Interesting! A very good initiative how can I put the file in my rom?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are making/building your own ROM, then I guess you need to include the two projects into our repo and create Android.mk files for them.
If you just want to install it on your already flashed phone, there are precompiled binaries here: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI/releases
In each case note that this is not a finished product
This reminds me of app Android achievements
Used a lot then lost after factory reset and got lazy enough to not install it
Press thanks :good: if I've helped :highfive:
great job,, nice sound quality on sony
Good stuff! I'm trying to convince family to ditch iPhones since they're getting worse and worse on build quality under Mr. Cook. Their only real concern is learning a new phone. This would be extremely useful!
This has been already been done in form of an app. Been available for some time too!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pixelmark.phonechievements
Awesome work
Currently you can get achievements by :
1) Add 5 Shortcuts to Home Screen (Told by OP).
2) Open any app 5 times (Told by OP).
3) Add 5 Widgets to Home Screen (Discovered by me).
4) Add 10 Apps to Home Screen (Discovered by me).
pal.szasz said:
If you are making/building your own ROM, then I guess you need to include the two projects into our repo and create Android.mk files for them.
If you just want to install it on your already flashed phone, there are precompiled binaries here: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI/releases
In each case note that this is not a finished product
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks !
Thanks for the feedback, both for the positive and the negative!
Btw, you should be able to adjust other applications to work with achievements. The launcher is just an example.
Any application can publish it's own set of features and achievements. I started to write some more detailed explanation, but it's not finished yet: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/EvolutionUI/wiki
However you can always look at the launcher patches: https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/an...mmit/71460e8441066b3dfc1a796b05f196d7edab8ba8
honestly, this is a bad idea. let me explain why.
the main idea behind this concept is to make it easier to the user to get familiar with the user interface. The user is slowly understanding the "game mechanics" of one "level" (i. e. reduced interface) and once he mastered them, he's ready for the next level. This process repeats until the user has all the skills needed to use the phone fully.
Ideally, the user should have full access to all functionality. The user interface should be polished and user friendly enough that any user doesn't experience any steep hills on the learning curve.
like someone said, Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler.
The average user has changed since the first smartphone. Back then, the idea of interact with a machine was very new. Arguably nowadays people are being brought up surrounded by technology, making it easier for them to understand how a computational device work.
Hence the achievements system is purely a steep hill that every single user has to do, even an experienced user. More computation machines are owned by the average user: tablet, phone, watches. What I fear is that the user has to go through a little game every time he has a new device. An idea to be successful has to be widely implemented, and I don't see this happening.
One could argue that every device may have a different interface and new "skills" have to be learned in order to fully use the device. True, but where the problem really lies is within inconsistency across multiple devices.
Consistency across multiple devices. This is what the aim of a good designer should be. As mentioned, this interface should be clean and intuitive. It's not easy, Microsoft is trying to do it and even with all the skilled people and resources available they ain't quite there yet.
With what it is available at the moment, a AOSP look with a theme engine (and an advanced menu unlocked it via a semi hidden command, like tapping multiple times the build number to get to Dev options) is a very very good concept.
Sony is almost doing so with the recent devices and I'm really happy about their decision. Continue down this way you guys. This surely was a fun little project to do, hopefully it has taught you something on the way.
p. s.
I love Android and its ability to change interface when I feel like it. But once I found an interface I'm happy about, I'm sticking with it between flashing and phones. The interface is device agnostic. This idea is shared among my friends and personally it is shared across xda as well. Hopefully this could serve as a proff of the above.
pps
I really like the professionality of the latest Sony interfaces, it doesn't look like it was designed for teens. Thank you!
I hope I have expressed my ideas in a clear way without offending anyone. I have open to further discussion on this topic.
hrockh said:
honestly, this is a bad idea. let me explain why.
the main idea behind this concept is to make it easier to the user to get familiar with the user interface. The user is slowly understanding the "game mechanics" of one "level" (i. e. reduced interface) and once he mastered them, he's ready for the next level. This process repeats until the user has all the skills needed to use the phone fully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's only one of the main ideas. Another important idea is to make it fun, to make a positive feedback to the user. I understand that some users don't need, but some do, some like an extra little bit of challenge, or simply a reward. For example my parents were very happy when they managed to find out how to merge two word documents, and they were eager to tell everybody
hrockh said:
Ideally, the user should have full access to all functionality. The user interface should be polished and user friendly enough that any user doesn't experience any steep hills on the learning curve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think this is possible. There is no way to make a user interface, which is easy to use both for beginner users and contains all the features required for advanced users. You mention the hidden developer options as an example. For me that's a good example why it doesn't work: it took me some time to find out what happened with the developer menu. The same with the offline map support in google maps. They removed the feature from the menu (to make it easier to use for the beginner users), and they added it as a hidden feature (type "ok maps" in the search?!). I also used an iPhone for 2 weeks, but didn't liked. And I liked the UI of the old UIQ phones. I also think the new trend of using more hidden gestures is also confusing for some users (especially the new swipe-sideways-to-delete-but-sometimes-to-show-more-options thingy).
Btw, we thought about advanced users, they can switch profile and disable the achievement system. Or switch profile only, but keep the achievement notifications just for fun. In many comments I saw people look at this as something they HAVE TO do. That's not the case. The point is to track what they are doing, and enable more and more. And of course there are not and there will never be microtransactions involved.
hrockh said:
Hence the achievements system is purely a steep hill that every single user has to do, even an experienced user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I mentioned before, this is not something the user HAS TO do. You can skip it by changing profiles.
hrockh said:
What I fear is that the user has to go through a little game every time he has a new device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We actually thought about this as well (but was not mentioned in the article for time/size reason)
We actually think this can help the user to switch to a different phone even if he used a smartphone already. Smartphones have new features compared to the previous one, so there is always something new to learn. The idea is the following:
* if switching from a phone which already supported EvolutionUI, we can copy the state (experiences, features, achievements obtained) and continue from the same point. This is rather easy to do, we already store this information locally (obviously, in case the user reboots the phone), so the only thing we need to do is transfer it to another device (probably via a cloud service). (NOTE: this is still in the concept phase, not implemented yet).
* if switching from a phone which did not support EvolutionUI, we can have a small builtin database, which maps the previous phone to an achievement state. For example if the previous user had an iPhone, we can set the medium profile instead of the beginner profile. It would be possible to even have customized profiles for certain phones (i.e. a small xml file describing all the features which needs to be enabled by start, since it was available in the previous phone)
hrockh said:
Consistency across multiple devices. This is what the aim of a good designer should be. As mentioned, this interface should be clean and intuitive. It's not easy, Microsoft is trying to do it and even with all the skilled people and resources available they ain't quite there yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NOTE: the following is just my personal opinion:
Of course we cannot guarantee complete consistency, since we control the Sony phones only. But to be honest, I don't think consistency is that important: imagine, if all android phones would look and behave like the iPhone. Of course it would be nice for many users, they could switch to android easily. But what should those users who don't like the iPhone UI do? They could not buy any phone. And I also want to mention again, that IMHO there is no such thing as perfect UI. UIs evolved a lot, but it's still a matter a fashion: a couple of years ago everybody liked the real-life-looking apps on the iPhone. Now they like the new modern, simplified look. It's always changing, and just like with fashion, not everybody has the same taste.
hrockh said:
I hope I have expressed my ideas in a clear way without offending anyone. I have open to further discussion on this topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, and I appreciate it!
Hello developers of XDA!
I'm Rox, a Razer Vanguard and i'm here to let you know that the Audio Source is now available for the Razer Phone 2! You can now find the complete source code on the Razer Developers website here
I'm glad you all now have access to the full open source material and we can finally see some movement on the custom development we all know from Android
I would also like to take this opportunity to ask the developers of XDA for some feedback. Is there anything stopping people in particular supporting the device in the community with custom ROM's and Kernels? And is there anything that Razer could do to help?
This is by no means any assurance but I will gather all your feedback and pass it on.
The community is the most important thing to a product and I will continue to raise the communities voice as much as possible.
Thank you so much for the time!
Rox - Razer Vanguard.
Roxas598 said:
Hello developers of XDA!
I'm Rox, a Razer Vanguard and i'm here to let you know that the Audio Source is now available for the Razer Phone 2! You can now find the complete source code on the Razer Developers website here
I'm glad you all now have access to the full open source material and we can finally see some movement on the custom development we all know from Android
I would also like to take this opportunity to ask the developers of XDA for some feedback. Is there anything stopping people in particular supporting the device in the community with custom ROM's and Kernels? And is there anything that Razer could do to help?
This is by no means any assurance but I will gather all your feedback and pass it on.
The community is the most important thing to a product and I will continue to raise the communities voice as much as possible.
Thank you so much for the time!
Rox - Razer Vanguard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info, I'm waiting for my phone to arrive. I hope to start playing with the ROM very soon.
What's a Razer Vanguard?
It's like their tech support reps, except they're a little more involved. Already dealt with one on their site, and he was very helpful and responsive. Most replies were within just a couple hours. Seems like these guys actually use the hardware they support, and don't treat the users like idiots. Nice to see this, especially since they just laid off most of their phone division. Hopefully this is a sign of better things to come. This phone is a beast.
jonchance_84 said:
It's like their tech support reps, except they're a little more involved. Already dealt with one on their site, and he was very helpful and responsive. Most replies were within just a couple hours. Seems like these guys actually use the hardware they support, and don't treat the users like idiots. Nice to see this, especially since they just laid off most of their phone division. Hopefully this is a sign of better things to come. This phone is a beast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is essentially it! Thank you for the kind words, I'll be sure to pass it on to the team. We definitely do use the hardware we help with and for me personally the Razer Phone is my specialty but we all have experience with most Razer products.
I think there are two main things I would like to see:
1. Earlier factory images and the release of ota updates. It would be nice for those who have yet to get pie, for example.
2. Though I realize it's unlikely, the release of the device tree would really be a big boost to rom and kennel development
I second earlier factory image and source releases.
On another note. The sources we have currently had a lot of header/build issues. As other Devs have pointed out(elsewhere) this was probably due to the sources being built out of the device tree but they still seemed weird as I've never seen that before and can't make out how a device tree would have changed that. Would it be too much to ask that some time be taken to scrub the sources better and maybe even have some basic build scripts or instructions? I realize this is contrary to my first point but it's the next best thing to a device tree.
It would be nice to get full android 9 images the same as android 8.1
I still do not understand - why there is no support for aptx, aptx hd, ldac?!!!
And you can't even install it like on most other phones, maby razer developers know how fix it?
Also, due to a strange signature system, most gsi roms do not work.
How about Razer Phone 1?
Now I'm not a gamer, just got a used RP1 from a moderator on the Swedroid forum quite by accident, as it were.
I really quite like it, the Sharp IGZO screen especially, same as on my Xiaomi Mi Mix1, which was the main reason I got it.
I have had zero problems with it so far.
ROM for Andorid 9
GoomerHD said:
It would be nice to get full android 9 images the same as android 8.1
I still do not understand - why there is no support for aptx, aptx hd, ldac?!!!
And you can't even install it like on most other phones, maby razer developers know how fix it?
Also, due to a strange signature system, most gsi roms do not work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 having the full image will save us a lot of time and will expedite the creation of mod ROM.
CurtisMJ said:
I second earlier factory image and source releases.
On another note. The sources we have currently had a lot of header/build issues. As other Devs have pointed out(elsewhere) this was probably due to the sources being built out of the device tree but they still seemed weird as I've never seen that before and can't make out how a device tree would have changed that. Would it be too much to ask that some time be taken to scrub the sources better and maybe even have some basic build scripts or instructions? I realize this is contrary to my first point but it's the next best thing to a device tree.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was informed this is how all new MSM kernels are - they don't build properly out of the AOSP tree (it looks like Android's build system supplies some additional flags to the kernel make system to make it use some prebuilts and AOSP headers over the kernel-provided ones). I don't think this is unique to Razer, since it's a Qualcomm thing.
I've got build instructions for the kernel in my thread too if you need them.
Of course, I could be relaying incorrect information but this does seem like it's typical of Google/Qualcomm to be changing Open Source projects to fit their internal needs...
Rox598 said:
Rox - Razer Vanguard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you guys get in contact with CurtisMJ on this forum and see about implementing his amazing Chroma logo alternative app, integrating features of it with the current Chroma logo app, or otherwise allowing us non-root users to systemize it?
https://forum.xda-developers.com/razer-phone-2/themes/beta-logo-oss-implementation-lighting-t3893981
It has a lot of features I want from the Chroma app, but I'm weary of rooting, especially now that Android 9 Pie has come out and no factory images for 9 Pie are on the Razer dev site. If you even wanted to put it in the next update and give users the option of which Chroma app they wanted to use, I'm sure CurtisMJ would think that was pretty neat, though you'd have to ask him. I mean, I'd personally pay to use it if it meant I didn't have to root. Maybe integrate it with the stock Chroma app, and charge $5 to upgrade to CurtisMJ's features, and then split the cash with him. Idk.
AbsoluteContingency said:
Maybe integrate it with the stock Chroma app,.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder lol.
Interestingly I did see some code in the Chroma app which can grant use of the service to unprivileged apps. I think it was used to whitelist some other Razer component. Just opening up that functionality to users so they can "grant" Chroma access to apps of their choosing might be enough. Otherwise, if I could get a signed stub in the next OTA that'd be cool (and ridiculously unlikely, just to be clear)
Great comments everyone keep them coming!
GoomerHD said:
It would be nice to get full android 9 images the same as android 8.1
I still do not understand - why there is no support for aptx, aptx hd, ldac?!!!
And you can't even install it like on most other phones, maby razer developers know how fix it?
Also, due to a strange signature system, most gsi roms do not work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, coming from my Samsung S8+, LDAC is the thing I'm missing the most.
I would just like to say thanks to Razer for listening to their customers and trying to be helpful, so: Thank you! :good: :victory:
I'm not a developer, but whatever these other guys need to get TWRP working, I'm all for
Pete450 said:
I would just like to say thanks to Razer for listening to their customers and trying to be helpful, so: Thank you! :good: :victory:
I'm not a developer, but whatever these other guys need to get TWRP working, I'm all for
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's my goal atm to get the developers points of view and requests I'm proud of the community helping each other out so this is my next focus.
So far my feedback list has faster Factory images, and source code, device tree, more Audio Codec (APT-X AND LDAC) and a couple of other things I can't get into.
If anyone else thinks of anything lmk and I'll add it to my list to send on. I hope the right person sees it but again there is zero assurances that any of it will happen but this is where the voices matter.
Thanks again everyone!
Might be a little off topic, but since this is a gaming phone, why can't I pair my old ps3 controller? I even tried an old usb Xbox 360 controller, which a usb host test app successfully found the device. I would have hoped this would have been built in, being a gaming phone and all. I'm on pie and rooted, even when trying multiple previous methods of trying to get something the work, all the phone wants to do is charge the connected device.
jonchance_84 said:
Might be a little off topic, but since this is a gaming phone, why can't I pair my old ps3 controller? I even tried an old usb Xbox 360 controller, which a usb host test app successfully found the device. I would have hoped this would have been built in, being a gaming phone and all. I'm on pie and rooted, even when trying multiple previous methods of trying to get something the work, all the phone wants to do is charge the connected device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately the PS3 controller doesn't connect and act like a good Bluetooth or USB device. There is an app called sixaxis controller on the play store that allows you to connect a PS3 controller via Bluetooth, but it needs root and I don't believe it works anymore. There's also an app for wired PS3. It's not a Razer issue, it's a controller issue.
CalebQ42 said:
Unfortunately the PS3 controller doesn't connect and act like a good Bluetooth or USB device. There is an app called sixaxis controller on the play store that allows you to connect a PS3 controller via Bluetooth, but it needs root and I don't believe it works anymore. There's also an app for wired PS3. It's not a Razer issue, it's a controller issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, I tested it all. That app gets to the part where it tries to pull the Mac of the phone's Bluetooth adapter and simply can't. I'm leaning more towards the an Oreo/Pie issue. Seems to be driver related.