Related
Hey all,
I've read these forums, and am 90% sure I have a defective Hermes. However, I'm unsure, as these forum posts were just text, and therefore can't really accurately describe the problems being seen. So, I made a YouTube video showing a couple of my issues, especially the screen fading to white. Like I say, I'd just like confirmation, and I'd like this post and video to serve as a help to others who are wondering if they have the same problem. You know what they say, a picture is worth a 1000 words .
Here are more details of my problems, in no particular order:
o The buttons reset after a quick power off and on (not a reset).
o The screen fade problem resets itself after a quick power off and on (not a reset).
o The screen calibration issue (not shown in video) seems to last a little longer sometimes. The issue is that calibration gets a little off. It seems to be by 10-20 pixels, but I can't repeat this as readily as the screen fade.
o This has happened with and without a memory card inserted.
o I've tried two different batteries, with the same results.
o I've tried three different firmwares (original, WM5 update, WM6 Black 2.0).
o The battery quick powerdown issue has only happened to me once (battery drains 10% every minute).
Here's the link to the video. It's only 84 seconds, so take a peek!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQWqTkoMX_4
Let me (and others) know your thoughts. It'd be appreciated.
PS... about the screen calibration...
FYI, I know about the screen calibration issues some have had wth the Hermes. However, I don't think this is that problem, since I never, ever have to recalibrate my phone. It always corrects itself eventually.
The screen calibration issue (not shown in video) seems to last a little longer sometimes. The issue is that calibration gets a little off. It seems to be by 10-20 pixels, but I can't repeat this as readily as the screen fade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has been documented HEAVILY in the wiki and the forums so I wont answer that.
The rest seems VERY weird indeed especially the screen going white?!?!
Is it still in warranty because I would so send it to be repaired.
Not seen anything like that on any forum. Are you keeping it somewhere hot or near an e.m. field just before use?
What additional apps have you installed? Do these problems still occur with an "empty" phone (i.e. right after a hard reset before installing third party apps)? If so then that should rule out software and firmware (ROM).
Fade to white issue: hardware problem IMO
Buttons stop working issue: looks like software IMO
Sleuth255 said:
Fade to white issue: hardware problem IMO
Buttons stop working issue: looks like software IMO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, the screen going white is similar to when I had my O2 XDA EXEC (HTC Universal) in which whenever I moved the lcd into the mini laptop mode the screen would fade to pure white. When I sent it into PPC Tech they notified me saying in which the lcd cable was damaged itself. Im not sure if thats the case with you necesarily, since it seems the screen goes back to normal after powering the device to standby and back.
The keys are most likely software/rom issues. Perhaps maybe you should reflash to a recent rom and see what happens. Although if that doesnt work I suggest you send in for replacement or warranty. I neeever in the 6 months I had my phone did I ever have problems like the one you've listed.
::EDIT::
I just realized I saw that you tried multiple roms, if thats the case I realllly believe you have a defective phone. It does happen that one in a hundred tend to go bad..
Had similar occurance when mine had gotten damp.
fading screen and hardware buttons
Hi,
I've reported some time ago these issues, they started with LVSW Edition (2007-03-20) and after that Pro - BLACK 2.0, 2.5, 3.0 and still with 3.01.
I don't think is hardware related. i happens in random way. No specific apps or time or connection.
I've had similar issues with the buttons not working on my 8525. It seems to have to do with changing in and out of landscape mode. For example, I'll always have problems if I reset the phone and leave it in landscape mode and I always have to push the keyboard in and pull it back out to get everything working right.
If the buttons DO work, they are usually wrong, like up and down will instead move left to right. Again, pushing in and pulling out the keyboard fixes it for me. I recently upgraded to a new ROM and couldn't say if the problem persists or not.
As for the white screen issue - I'd say it's FUBAR'd.
Hi there!
I bought a damaged G1 from ebay to hack on.
There is some strange behaviour, that seems to be related to the trackball.
Everytime i scroll some pages for a while, the trackball is going really mad.
It toggles between applications, e.g. starts phone app or contacts and enters weird numbers.
If i leave it completely untouched the system behaves normal.
Just to give it a try, i disassembled the device and removed the trackball mechanic. Result: Everything behaves normal.
Due to these problems, i started a little research on the trackball parts.
So here's what i found (see attachment).
I will do some further investgation and check out if i'm able to fix this issue.
My suspicion is, that one of the magnetic sensors got damaged and toggles between high and low all the time, even without the trackball beeing moved.
Did anyone realized such a behaviour on a G1?
Any comments are welcome!!
Regards,
scholbert
Note that the trackball on HTC DREAM is identical to the trackball used in RIM cripplephones, so you can find a replacement easily... you can probably get a broken RIMjunk for $5 with good trackball hardware, or you can try at something like blackberrytrackball.com.
Hey lbcoder,
i knew that the touchball is identical to those used in the blackberries.
Thanks anyway to add this info and for pointing me at the web link!
Got a spare part with broken flat cable from another G1 device.
I'll have to do some further testing and then start the soldering job
BTW the trackball itself is not the damaged part. It's one of the magnetic sensor parts, i suppose.
Would be interesting if anyone else ever was affected by some irritating trackball issues?
Regards,
scholbert
It *is* magnetic though, so theoretically it *could* be an issue with the mechanical components rather than with the sensor itself... i.e. something stuck in the wrong place getting picked up by the sensor as continuous. Unless you've tried swapping them out already.
If you haven't already, I would at least try that. No need to go all the way to soldering just to find that it was something else
...
If you haven't already, I would at least try that. No need to go all the way to soldering just to find that it was something else
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, just did some test with the other mainboard (connector for touchscreen is damaged on this part).
The trackball behaves normal with this combination.
So the sub-PCB must be O.K.
I'll try searching for something weird on the original mainboard.
Damn, this would be much harder to fix i suppose
I'll keep you informed!
Anyway, maybe the datasheet would be of any use for the curious geeks
Best regards,
scholbert
experts welcome
Hi again,
after some more testing and examination of the hardware stuff, i'm in doubt that this problem is hardware related.
So i started to think of some software related issues.
I know that bootcode and Android filesystem should be aware of bad blocks in NAND memory.
But anyway here's the history of the device (so far i know it):
- It came to me with stock bootloader and firmware 1.5
- A stock update was made to firmware 1.6
- I did a downgrade to RC7 using a goldcard
- Rooted the device using telnet
- Installed cm-recovery-1.4
- Followed the steps from cyanogen's wiki to move to v4.2.12.2
http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php/Full_Update_Guide_-_G1/Dream_Firmware_to_CyanogenMod
- Also did a radio update to 2.22.19.26i
- Installed Hard-SPL as well
Everthing went fine, also no problems during registering to a google account.
I am able to boot into HSPL and the cm recobery is also intact.
It's very strange that the trackball weirdness did not change during all these up/downgrades.
I also got some issues with the power button.
Sometimes the device can not be set to sleep and immediately comes back into active state
Apart from that the device behaves quite normal...
What the hell is wrong with this device?
Could there still be some corrupt areas in NAND caused by bad blocks even after reflashing the system?
Any advice would be welcome!
Regards,
scholbert
scholbert said:
Would be interesting if anyone else ever was affected by some irritating trackball issues?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, my trackball likes to 'triple-click', which causes issues sometimes, especially when submitting web forms. I even have to use Ra_mon recovery over cyan because he has option to use talk button where my trackball multi-clicking would bypass the 'click home to continue any other key to abort' by auto-clicking to abort.
Hi jalsing,
thanks for your reply
Yes, my trackball likes to 'triple-click', which causes issues sometimes, especially when submitting web forms. I even have to use Ra_mon recovery over cyan because he has option to use talk button where my trackball multi-clicking would bypass the 'click home to continue any other key to abort' by auto-clicking to abort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like hardware related damage, because this occurs in recovery mode as well. Maybe the pushbutton underneath the trackball causes this issue, while pressed.
Could be some corrosion or similar causing this...
Is there anyone who made some experience with file corruption or bad blocks?
Regards,
scholbert
scholbert said:
I also got some issues with the power button.
Sometimes the device can not be set to sleep and immediately comes back into active state
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have noticed some weirdness in the power button, but I am thoroughly convinced that, at least in my case, it must be hardware related.... if I just shove down on the power button with the pad of my finger, it goes off and then right back to the lock screen. If I press the power button on the 9-clock point with a finger nail, it behaves as expected.
Although I must admit that this appeared coincidentally with a radio firmware upgrade.
Hey there,
I have been having an odd issue too although one that has not been mentioned. About a week ago when i scrolled "left" or while landscape "down" the trackball got jammed every 3 rotations. When you continue scrolling it repairs itself temporarily and then returns. This issue is still present but is not quite so bad.
I'm guessing that this would also be a hardware issue. Its not at a stage where its overbearingly annoying yet, just wondering if anyone else has similar issues.
Hi vonapets,
have you tried to check your hardware with HTC Dream diagnostic programm on sdcard? You'll have to create a "goldcard" and with the file DREADIAG.nbh.
Insert the card and enter bootloader mode, the test software will load automatically. Please search the forum, if you don't know what i'm talking about.
Anyway i did these tests on my device sometime ago and all hardware test were successful.
That's why it's all so strange
Especially i run the button test several times, and the test software did pass with no errors.
Regards,
scholbert
???
It's me again
Seems that i'm nearly the only one who suffers from this specific trackball issue.
Anyway i won't give up so early and i really hope to find the reason of this erroneous inputs.
After checking some of the system libs and the framework files concerning file integrity, i started some rudimental debugging with adb.
Working with the tool getevent i found out that input event2 (trackball) is detected correctly and disappears if the trackball remains untouched.
When the random inputs are going to start, input event3 (virtual keyboard) occurs though i did not touch anything (especially not the virtual keyboard)
If i am at home screen the inputs hit google search entry field and most of the time the number "3" is printed.
Input event3 stays active until i fiddle around with the trackball or press some hardware buttons. This sometimes stops the weirdness
I also did check the interrupt counting with cat /proc/interrupts.
Everything looks quite normal....
I am really wondering what is causing this.
Maybe it is a side effect from some damaged hardware part (maybe MSM7201 itself) or it is some software bug that has never been observed before.
Maybe it is the result of some bad timings...
Really got no clue right now!
EDIT: Just for completeness. Also did perform RAM test and other hardware diagnostic with DREADIAG. No errors here!
Regards,
scholbert
jalsing said:
Yes, my trackball likes to 'triple-click', which causes issues sometimes, especially when submitting web forms. I even have to use Ra_mon recovery over cyan because he has option to use talk button where my trackball multi-clicking would bypass the 'click home to continue any other key to abort' by auto-clicking to abort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
i have trouble using recovery too. I have to press it very lightly to get it to select only once otherwise it clicks several times ><
Not a huge issue for me really, i don't use it that often, but it is pretty irritating.
But, no. I've never had it enter any numbers or anything, that is strange.
However, i do have a strange problem where when the phone receives a slight knock, like if it's in my pocket and it bangs against something, or i drop it a couple of inches onto my desk or something, a random app will launch. I have no idea why this happens and it's not anything coming in contact with the screen because it happens even when it's locked. It's usually the market which opens too for some strange reason. Oh, it also reboots sometimes too
Yeah, i think i need a new phone
scholbert said:
It's me again
Seems that i'm nearly the only one who suffers from this specific trackball issue.
Anyway i won't give up so early and i really hope to find the reason of this erroneous inputs.
After checking some of the system libs and the framework files concerning file integrity, i started some rudimental debugging with adb.
Working with the tool getevent i found out that input event2 (trackball) is detected correctly and disappears if the trackball remains untouched.
When the random inputs are going to start, input event3 (virtual keyboard) occurs though i did not touch anything (especially not the virtual keyboard)
If i am at home screen the inputs hit google search entry field and most of the time the number "3" is printed.
Input event3 stays active until i fiddle around with the trackball or press some hardware buttons. This sometimes stops the weirdness
I also did check the interrupt counting with cat /proc/interrupts.
Everything looks quite normal....
I am really wondering what is causing this.
Maybe it is a side effect from some damaged hardware part (maybe MSM7201 itself) or it is some software bug that has never been observed before.
Maybe it is the result of some bad timings...
Really got no clue right now!
EDIT: Just for completeness. Also did perform RAM test and other hardware diagnostic with DREADIAG. No errors here!
Regards,
scholbert
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Virtual keyboard? Or touchscreen? Is the virtual keyboard actually listed as a separate input from the touchscreen? If it is, then how could it even be triggered when the vk isn't even opened? Or is the vk open when this weirdness happens? Could it simply be the digitizer that's borked?
Here's a REAL SIMPLE IDEA: clean the digitizer with rubbing alcohol. Can't hurt, and now that you bring touch events into the picture, there is a little bit of a dejavu feeling starting to come over me -- not from personal experience mind you, but I do recall someone mentioning something about a greasy digitizer causing some weird problems.... that went away when it was properly cleaned.
And if nothing else, if it happens to be a digitizer problem and the digitizer is totally borked, try disconnecting it. You should still be able to navigate by trackball and hack on it without a functioning touchscreen.
I know it sounds confusing, but it's true...
Thanks for the replies!
Is the virtual keyboard actually listed as a separate input from the touchscreen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yepp!
If it is, then how could it even be triggered when the vk isn't even opened?
Or is the vk open when this weirdness happens?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yepp!
BTW, you may type characters on the vk simultanously, while there are numerous 3's fired from somewhere inside the system.
The ascii changes if i also scroll the trackpad....
If you are able to close vk it opens up again randomly
Could it simply be the digitizer that's borked?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope!
Already did test with disconnecting the digitizer, same behaviour.
Very wicked and confusing
I really think there must be something destroyed inside the MCU.
Short circuit or ESD damage on a GPIO bank of the chip.
I will do further debugging.....
scholbert
...not givin' up
Hey there,
i don't know if this is still of interest for someone, but anyway here's updated information about this confusing behaviour:
- booting into recovery console (different kernel, only initrd running from RAM)
- scrolling up with the trackball causes ASCII char "u" in this console
- after scrolling the hardware keyboard is blocked
Using SHR kernel:
- used sd boot image from leviathan and flashed it to the boot partition
- sdcard is used as rootfs
- system boots up after login i enter the console
- scrolling up with the trackball causes strange ASCII string "u542i3" in this console
- after scrolling the hardware keyboard is not blocked
Pretty sure that some parts of hardware are causing this "ghost" input.
I decided to put the mainboard into pure alcohol for some hours.
Though the humidity stickers on my mainboard never turned to red, i just want to make sure that there's no dirt causing this strange effect.
Anyway it's my last hope....
P.S.: Anyone ever programmed a simple commandline tool to observe the state of the systems GPIO?
Would be very helpful to find the needle in the stack
EDIT: In the meantime i found out a lot, about the internal components of the HTC dream.
If there's some interest, i may open up a new thread post some information about it.
Cheers,
scholbert
O.K. no ideas anymore.
Quoting myself:
scholbert said:
...
I decided to put the mainboard into pure alcohol for some hours.
...
Anyway it's my last hope....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Last hope has gone!
Some hardware part has also gone, i suppose.
Battery life was always very worse using this mainboard, which is another indicator, that something hardware related had gone mad.
P.S.: Anyone ever programmed a simple commandline tool to observe the state of the systems GPIO?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyone??
Whatever, i think i'll use that mainboard for some awesome experiments
Bye bye,
scholbert
Hey, new to this forum, and just stumbled across your post searching for a resolve to my problem, which seems to be very similar to yours.
Phone seems to work fine except:
When rolling trackball up (even slightest movement) I get virtual keyboard appearing on screen and u542i3.....(continuous 3's) types into the searchbar.
Also MENU button is inop, although one on keyboard is ok.
When locked, sometimes the screen and key backlights constantly go on and off.
Seems to flatten the battery pretty quick.
I stripped the phone checked everything clean and dry etc, tried turning the trackball upside down on the offchance, but no change. I have done nothing software related as I'm not too clued up on that side of things. It has the std 1.6 operating system as far as I know.
I have no clue where to go from here with it though, think my best bet might just be to get another one that needs a screen or something and use mine for parts?
Good to see I'm not alone with this issue though so there's a chance someone may figure it out.
....at least i'm not alone
Hi ram5ay,
thanks a lot for your reply!
ram5ay said:
...
When rolling trackball up (even slightest movement) I get virtual keyboard appearing on screen and u542i3.....(continuous 3's) types into the searchbar.
Also MENU button is inop, although one on keyboard is ok.
When locked, sometimes the screen and key backlights constantly go on and off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly the behaviour of my device.
Seems to flatten the battery pretty quick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, i also observed this issue.
Seems that parts of the hardware are damaged or not set up correctly due to some other error.
As a result some of the GPIO's may act as an output and are shortened to Vio or GND. This could be a reason why the battery got drained so fast
Anyway, as i already wrote down, got no clue how to fix this.....
Best regards,
scholbert
scholbert said:
got no clue how to fix this.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool man, no worries. Maybe futile, but I'll prob pull mine apart again and have another look, if I have any success I'll keep you posted.
Hi, Just wonder if you still have the screen problem (register the wrong place when click) after the upgrade.
No. You should check out the humongous thread on google support forums. Googe have now abandned even giving updates on this serious problem.
http://www.google.com/support/forum...8e&hl=en&fid=04134c63c784258e00047fdfe09ae547
p.s. no fix in ere36b either (as im running that now and still experience this problem at random)
I don't understand this issue, I just don't see it on mine at all, no matter what ROM I install ... there has to be something more to this than a simple fault across all handsets ... either select faulty ones or some other factor. Mine just works 100% as expected at all times.
That said I have had no 3G issues either, no matter what radio version I use. Perhaps I am lucky ?
I think its because people are touching the edge of the screen while pressing with the other causing it to register incorrectly
duncan888 said:
I think its because people are touching the edge of the screen while pressing with the other causing it to register incorrectly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not it, there are plenty of videos that show the touchsreen misfiring while just laying on the table. Also, the way I hold my phone I am never touching the glass surface other than with the one finger doing the touching.
With regards to some people not seeing it, this issue is very random. I can go for days without noticing it and then out of the blue it would come back, most annoying when it happens while typing something.
There is another somewhat related issue with the sensor on the n1. If you download an app called multi touch paint and try to draw two parallel lines simultaneously from say top left corner down to bottom right you will see that the lines are not straight at all and full of zigzags. Only way that this sensor recognizes multiple lines properly is if you draw perfectly vertical or horizontal lines.
There is also a discussion on developer groups where game developers are pointing out this very problem of multi toch totally being screwed up where it switches axis causing your touch to register in completely the wrong place. From the comments of the android engineer it makes it seem that the sensor hardware is just like that, cheap and low quality.
Link to discussion: http://groups.google.com/group/andr...read/thread/d0aa3eea8fd9a2b8/9a8ea81133866460
duncan888 said:
I think its because people are touching the edge of the screen while pressing with the other causing it to register incorrectly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
trust me its not.
i have had this twice and has nothing to do with that.
i dont see it as a huge problem but a lot of people are getting this on a daily basis..
vas41 said:
That is not it, there are plenty of videos that show the touchsreen misfiring while just laying on the table. Also, the way I hold my phone I am never touching the glass surface other than with the one finger doing the touching.
With regards to some people not seeing it, this issue is very random. I can go for days without noticing it and then out of the blue it would come back, most anyin when it happens while typing something.
There is another somewhat related issue with the sensor on the n1. If you download an app called multi touch paint and try to draw to lines simultaneously from say top left corner down to bottom right you will see that the lines are not straight at all and full of zigzags. Onlyway that this sensor recognizes multiple lines properly is if you draw perfectly vertical or horizontal lines.
There is also a discussion on developer groups where game developers are pointing out this very problem of multi toch totally being screwed up where it switches axis causing your touch to register in completely the wrong place. Fromn the comments of the android engineer it makes it seem that the sensor hardware is just like that, cheap and low quality.
Link to discussion: http://groups.google.com/group/andr...read/thread/d0aa3eea8fd9a2b8/9a8ea81133866460
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, I have seen all these videos and attempted to re-create many times to test I have never seen this issue once.
Don't get me wrong I can understand it being a mare of you are having it, but I just dont ever see it.
after trolling the Google thread, it seems to me there are several scenarios everyone is lumping into "screen issues" and it's going to be hard to pin it down to one source
Mine happens (touch registers on the wrong part of the screen) when I am using certain apps (Ringdroid, Browser mostly) - a couple of things clears it up ; press the sleep button, kill all tasks if you have an app for it, or change to landscape mode. For other people it's the soft keys and/or much worse. Since mine clears up with a specific action, I tend to think it is software related.
With mine it used randomly to happen but only in the Launcher (never again since 36B). I couldn't point anywhere but if I selected any app with the trackball and opend ist everything worked fine again, also the keyboard on the launcher worked well. For me it seems that it has something to do with the launcher.
Right, since this is such a significant impairment (and some users don't seem to experience it), I decided to create a separate thread for it:
If anyone finds out how to properly CALIBRATE the touchscreen on Froyo on Blackstone, please post it here.
So far, the "msmts_calib=0x395.0x3c9.0x79.0x77" results in random keys etc being pressed on the left hand side of the screen.
Thanks
z.
zero0007 said:
Right, since this is such a significant impairment (and some users don't seem to experience it), I decided to create a separate thread for it:
If anyone finds out how to properly CALIBRATE the touchscreen on Froyo on Blackstone, please post it here.
So far, the "msmts_calib=0x395.0x3c9.0x79.0x77" results in random keys etc being pressed on the left hand side of the screen.
Thanks
z.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, there is a bigger problem as the calibration part ...
in froyo it seems to be, that the calibration willb e done automatical and it is not necc. to do anything extra...
but the module/driver for touchscreen is buggy ...
better for testing is the app dotty (can be downloaded from market).
there you'll see, that if you press via finger middle botton, that it jumps on screen touch to left botton - only sometimes ......and with this bug it is almost not possible to use the phone via fingers ...
my boot paramter for calibration is: msmts_calib=0x395.0x3c9.0x79.0x77
but as told above ... the problem is the touchscreen doesn't work correct if using finger ...
if you use the stylus, then it is working, so i think it is a bug, that if the touchscreen driver is getting multiple zones on touching the display, then something strange happen, and then it add an extra point on the left side, which makes using keyboard (SIP) almost impossible.
the only questions would be: does this bug also happenon 2.1 ?
because it it is there working, then we can try to implement the driver from 2.1.
cu camel
Slow down...
Slow down guys...
For 99% of users the calibration works fine, you're in the minority experience tolerance issues.
Touchscreens drift over time, and with heat fluctuations (quite dramatic ones only) etc.
You guys are just unlucky and have devices that have clearly drifted by some amount....
Now, there ARE instructions floating around about how to fix calibration issues, but they aren't on the Blackstone thread, they are elsewhere and I can't recall quite where, but they DO exist.
When it comes to used a finger instead of a stylus, here you just have to live with the differences between a resistive and capacitive touchscreen. Resistive is the one used on Blackstone and most other touchscreens older than 18 months old, whilst never devices tend to have capacitive screens.
What's the difference?
Resistive need physical pressure against the screen, but can be highly accurate in ONE position. You can use these screens with or without a stylus, so can be good for handwriting recognition etc.
Capacitive need NO physical pressure against the screen, but are less accurate.
However they can detect multiple presses at the same time in different parts of the screen.
You can't easy use these screens with a normal stylus and so they aren't ideal for handwriting recognition or fine detail work.
When it comes to using your finger on resistive screen, a lot of accuracy is lost... you're just pressing a large area of the screen and the screen can only deduce ONE point under your finger. This can lead to inaccuracy and wrong buttons being pressed with a UI that has tiny icons and controls.
If your touch calibration is ALSO out, then things get worse still.
Now, before any techies get too techy, there ARE some 'smart' techniques for trying to have multi-touch on resistive displays, but we will no go into that here, and they are generally 'hacks' that don't work in all scenarios.
You guys just need to get your displays recalibrated... that should cure 95% of all your problems, and the remaining 5% are just the stuff we all face... like no multitouch, pinch to zoom etc
It's definitely wrong to give the impressions that XDAndroid releases simply don't work correctly with touch screen. That's very misleading indeed.
i too have issues with touch screen accuracy (both 2.1a and 2.2 v1.0)
80% of the presses are fine, but the other 20% xdandroid would place my finger about 1" to the right, slightly down of when i first contact the screen, and then work out where i've actually pressed a fraction of second later, translating it into a swipe etc.
the touchscreen tool in the debug area proves this fact.
WM is perfect.
weirdly, it seems not to occur at all/noticably less using the stylus. maybe something todo with pressure/contact area?
i do think the OP has a valid issue tbh.
TheBrilliantMistake said:
Slow down guys...
For 99% of users the calibration works fine, you're in the minority experience tolerance issues.
Touchscreens drift over time, and with heat fluctuations (quite dramatic ones only) etc....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the info.
First, I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I just noticed increased inquiries about this issue and I wasn't aware of the 99% of users having it perfectly working...is this a fact btw?
Besides, I am aware of the different types of displays but obviously, pinch zoom etc are not exactly the main concern, we are just looking to use the phone with our fingers mate!
I agree - I have been using the phone for many months running WM and I had no issue, whatsoever. I am not much of a techie but you are still referring to the software calibration, correct?
Thanks for sharing some valuable info again. I would love to see those instruction on how to do this calibration as without it and along with much of resentment to use stylus, it pretty much makes the phone running Froyo useless )
zero0007 said:
Thanks for the info.
First, I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I just noticed increased inquiries about this issue and I wasn't aware of the 99% of users having it perfectly working...is this a fact btw?
Besides, I am aware of the different types of displays but obviously, pinch zoom etc are not exactly the main concern, we are just looking to use the phone with our fingers mate!
I agree - I have been using the phone for many months running WM and I had no issue, whatsoever. I am not much of a techie but you are still referring to the software calibration, correct?
Thanks for sharing some valuable info again. I would love to see those instruction on how to do this calibration as without it and along with much of resentment to use stylus, it pretty much makes the phone running Froyo useless )
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But windows mobile typically makes you calibrate your screen when you reflash a ROM, making the calibration specific to your device.
It's also not clear where the calibration info is stored, other than the registry it MAY be stored in E2, or some flash area somewhere. Regardless, it usually forces you to recalibrate (some custom ROMs skip this).
The XDAndroid chaps deemed to 'auto configure' Blackstone calibration for some reason, and this is the most probable reason why folks are having issues.
As for 99%, hummm well, just my releases alone have over 20,000 downloads, and my stuffs one of the lesser used!... yes, some folks have calibration issues, but the majority aren't reporting any... I've maybe seen/heard 20 folks with the issue... that's not too many all in all across all the various releases. AND, some of those guys were also the types of guys saying "this sucks, the battery lasts 2 hours".... as if we didn't all know that ;-)
There was a calibration tool floating around somewhere, plus, those values CAN be edited to suit your device, so there is some home!
Wow, I thought I was one of the only people that had the calibration issue. X_X It's what caused me not to use XDAndroid as much. =(
Anyone have any idea what the calibration tool was? I tried searching calibrate and calibration but no tool was mentioned in the Blackstone droid threads.
PS. I have no idea on how to change the calibration values... =/ When I open up the ts_calibration it shows up as blank. When I open up the startup.txt ("msmts_calib=0x395.0x3c9.0x79.0x77") I do not know exactly what the values affect.
Update:
I tried using the stylus but it currently has the same problem as if I was just using my finger... Does that mean that my touch screen is going out on me? =(
I have a problem too with touch screen calibration.....I guess i'm 1% of users...
im curious as to how maany others have this issue - seems theres a few coming out of the woodwork now
im sure the XDAndroid FAQ or the release thread says the devs are aware of almost all issues so dont bother reporting them (or something to that effect), yet i havent seen anyone mention touchscreen issues upto this thread.
does anyone see a need for a bugtracker for the XDAndroid, or are the forums sufficient? to me, forums seem a bit 'unofficial' with reguard to bugs - maybe an official bug tracker (specific to the android project) would help everyone to see what people are experiencing and numbers involved.
i must say i am only a user, so i dont see or get involved in the development side so maybe this thing already exists in closed circles.
to put it another way, each phone has their own android subforum so it must take the devs alot of time to collate info. bug tracker could be a better way to manage this?
I have the same problem, since 1.6... i touch the screen and is like i touched 1cm outside the screen on the left for 0.001 seconds, so is extremly difficult to type without stylus.
with the stylus is much better but still not good
Ps. i remember the first version of android working on blackstone (1.5 i think) was working good, and the touch screen was fine
veehexx said:
im curious as to how maany others have this issue - seems theres a few coming out of the woodwork now
im sure the XDAndroid FAQ or the release thread says the devs are aware of almost all issues so dont bother reporting them (or something to that effect), yet i havent seen anyone mention touchscreen issues upto this thread.
does anyone see a need for a bugtracker for the XDAndroid, or are the forums sufficient? to me, forums seem a bit 'unofficial' with reguard to bugs - maybe an official bug tracker (specific to the android project) would help everyone to see what people are experiencing and numbers involved.
i must say i am only a user, so i dont see or get involved in the development side so maybe this thing already exists in closed circles.
to put it another way, each phone has their own android subforum so it must take the devs alot of time to collate info. bug tracker could be a better way to manage this?
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I was actually thinking about the same thing..unsure how to proceed though...
mitikos said:
I have the same problem, since 1.6... i touch the screen and is like i touched 1cm outside the screen on the left for 0.001 seconds, so is extremly difficult to type without stylus.
with the stylus is much better but still not good
Ps. i remember the first version of android working on blackstone (1.5 i think) was working good, and the touch screen was fine
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I would dig up that version along with calib code in the startup txt file then!
well, i've put the idea forward in the main android subforum here.
it would certainly be useful from a user side perspective to see progress and known issues. fingers crossed
edit: and when did i move to 'Senior member'!!?
I experience similar issues with 2.2, didn't notice it to the same extent in 2.1. When I type on the on screen keyboard, pretty often i get an added button press detected off to the left (about 2 - 3 cm). The problem does occur a lot less when using the stylus instead of the finger.
This is NOT likely to be a calibration problem, as in that case all presses would be off consistently (e.g. always half a centimeter in the wrong direction or something like that).
It looks as if the Touchscreen sends some "incorrect" data that WM filters as too short of a press or whatever and that is affecting some users.
mmm, questionable.
Calibration is as far as I'm concerned done each time, individually with new system (ROM) unless using a saved one from previous attempt install (my Froyo case).
To my understanding of the matter, wrong calibration doesn't necessarily have to mean your display is "shifted" 2cm to the left or so. Simply, it just doesn't work properly i.e. you have the same problem as all other people in this thread.
Maybe reading TheBrilliantMistake's post about different types of screens earlier would help you understand...
after all, we need that calibration tutorial/tip which is allegedly somewhere around here...
StevieBallz said:
I experience similar issues with 2.2, didn't notice it to the same extent in 2.1. When I type on the on screen keyboard, pretty often i get an added button press detected off to the left (about 2 - 3 cm). The problem does occur a lot less when using the stylus instead of the finger.
This is NOT likely to be a calibration problem, as in that case all presses would be off consistently (e.g. always half a centimeter in the wrong direction or something like that).
It looks as if the Touchscreen sends some "incorrect" data that WM filters as too short of a press or whatever and that is affecting some users.
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I have the same problem, exatly the same.
Cant we set android to ignore the first 0.1seconds of a pression on the screen?
StevieBallz said:
I experience similar issues with 2.2, didn't notice it to the same extent in 2.1. When I type on the on screen keyboard, pretty often i get an added button press detected off to the left (about 2 - 3 cm). The problem does occur a lot less when using the stylus instead of the finger.
This is NOT likely to be a calibration problem, as in that case all presses would be off consistently (e.g. always half a centimeter in the wrong direction or something like that).
It looks as if the Touchscreen sends some "incorrect" data that WM filters as too short of a press or whatever and that is affecting some users.
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ah - finally
now you got it - this is exact the problem what i want to tell everybody ..., and i'm sure, that this happen, because the touch screen driver doesn't calculate correct the position when a bigger range (like touch from a finger) is touched. This doesn't happen, when stylus is used ...
to remove the first 0,1 sec or something ... don't think, that this would help
...on the other hand ... which module is responsible for touch screen ?
Just for a start the background of calibration (it's on security risks with touchscreen based voting machines but the principle is obviously the same) - http://vote.nist.gov/threats/papers/touchscreencalib.pdf
I believe TheBrilliantMistake in this case thought we'd sometimes hit adjacent buttons. But fact is, it always does trigger to the left and in addition to the correct press being detected, so well there's something else to this one.
Guess it will be ironed out eventually as it's a lot less common in 2.1. But it's annoying to the point of making texting a real pain in 2.2.
StevieBallz said:
Just for a start the background of calibration (it's on security risks with touchscreen based voting machines but the principle is obviously the same) - http://vote.nist.gov/threats/papers/touchscreencalib.pdf
I believe TheBrilliantMistake in this case thought we'd sometimes hit adjacent buttons. But fact is, it always does trigger to the left and in addition to the correct press being detected, so well there's something else to this one.
Guess it will be ironed out eventually as it's a lot less common in 2.1. But it's annoying to the point of making texting a real pain in 2.2.
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does it means, that under 2.1 there is no such kind of "touchscreen bug with finger" ?, because then we can take a look to the modules - maybe we can compare the difference to 2.1 ...
I didn't experience it there but I have to admit that I didn't use 2.1 for too long. Maybe it's a speed issue with 2.1 being more optimized and polished then 2.2 which leads to it occuring on a less frequent basis.
Due to the known problems with powersafe modes not being supported yet in XDAndroid I'm currently mostly running WM6.5 but I'm looking forward to the advancements with XDAndroid, great project.
Add 2 more devices to the 1%.
I'm experience the same issue. My friend which has a newer Blackstone than me let me put my XDAndroid mSD card into his phone and there goes the same issue.
Tested with some drawing applications, here is what i experienced:
Just like others stated before most of the times when the bug occurs I get a line starting like 2 cm to the left of my finger (and a little lower) and ending under my finger. It's like I've been dragging my finger across the screen for 2 cm. Sometimes it goes as far as the left side of the screen.
Since this is inconsistent I doubt it's a calibration issue. I must assume it's the driver. But I might be wrong.
Anyway I believe a lot more people than 1% are experiencing the issue but they aren't posting about it since they believe it's a known issue.
WARNING: Little bit of a rant on my part. Been watching this happen for the last year or so.
WHY does no one understand that the second screen is NOT a notch? Its function is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
PLEASE don't tell us "The second screen is working!" when it is set as a notch. THAT'S NOT WORKING.
The whole point of the second screen is for it to act as the notification light on other phones, but better, because it doubles as an ALWAYS ON display.
If it's set as a notch, it's not ALWAYS ON. If I wanted a notch, I would get a pixel 3, or heck, even an IPHONE. (no! never! how could he say that?)
PLEASE fix your posts everyone. Tell us AT LEAST that it's PARTIALLY working. That would clear it up. I don't want people to say: "Yay! Second screen! Let me render my phone useless for the next week to get this new ROM! Wait, WHAT!? It doesn't work!? AUUGGHH!" And waste their time and sometimes lose their data just trying the "working" ROM.
P.S: Don't tell me Im overreacting. I mean this to be a rant. Not a personal statement against anyone. Please don't accuse me of this. This is just me trying to get my point across.
Wait a second, let me try and clear up something here:
I thought "always-on display with a notch on an LCD" and "LG V20's second screen" is the same thing. Because LG V20's "second screen" isn't actually a second tiny screen. It is the same LCD as the rest of the panel. Which means whenever it is set to always-on, it might as well lite the rest of the LCD since it consumes the same amount of energy.
I can understand that LG V20's implementation of second screen also aid navigation since it scrolls independently. However, as far as notification goes. The function between "always-on display with a notch on an LCD" and "LG V20's second screen" basically does the same thing, no?
No. Its not that. LG has a second separate backlight section that lights the "notch" separately, allowing it to use practically no battery, yet still act as the "notification light" for this phone.
Edit: This phone has no other way of letting you know that you have notifications when the screen is off. That's why I have remained on stock this whole time. Heck, I'm even using it right now.
gljones2001 said:
WARNING: Little bit of a rant on my part. Been watching this happen for the last year or so.
WHY does no one understand that the second screen is NOT a notch? Its function is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
PLEASE don't tell us "The second screen is working!" when it is set as a notch. THAT'S NOT WORKING.
The whole point of the second screen is for it to act as the notification light on other phones, but better, because it doubles as an ALWAYS ON display.
If it's set as a notch, it's not ALWAYS ON. If I wanted a notch, I would get a pixel 3, or heck, even an IPHONE. (no! never! how could he say that?)
PLEASE fix your posts everyone. Tell us AT LEAST that it's PARTIALLY working. That would clear it up. I don't want people to say: "Yay! Second screen! Let me render my phone useless for the next week to get this new ROM! Wait, WHAT!? It doesn't work!? AUUGGHH!" And waste their time and sometimes lose their data just trying the "working" ROM.
P.S: Don't tell me Im overreacting. I mean this to be a rant. Not a personal statement against anyone. Please don't accuse me of this. This is just me trying to get my point across.
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Hey if you want the V20's Second screen to work go back to stock. Why cant You just say thanks for all the hard work that's been put into development for the V20?
And BTW it clearly says the V20's Second Screen is now a defined notch that allows it to be active in the LOS 16 thread. I thinks there was some development for the second screen back in LOS 15.1 so u could look there.
Never tried that, set screen as notch ,
Dlions said:
Hey if you want the V20's Second screen to work go back to stock. Why cant You just say thanks for all the hard work that's been put into development for the V20?
And BTW it clearly says the V20's Second Screen is now a defined notch that allows it to be active in the LOS 16 thread. I thinks there was some development for the second screen back in LOS 15.1 so u could look there.
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I already know this. Did you not read my P.S. statement? Im not saying they didnt work hard. Im not giving anyone a bad rap. Im saying thats not a working second screen. They did work hard. They deserve the praise of even getting LOS to work on this phone AT ALL. Ive just barely gotten into the android hacking space, and I still dont understand fully how these custom roms work. All im saying is that without the AOD functionality of the second screen, you loose a HUGE feature that most people use on a day to day basis.
P.S: Ive even tried the second screen functionality in LOS 15.1. Its buggy and rather odd looking, without any of the crisp, clean interface like LG implemented. Id rather stay with stock for now.
Edit: It also still didn't have the AOD functionality. So, no custom roms for me.
AOD = Always On Display
gljones2001 said:
No. Its not that. LG has a second separate backlight section that lights the "notch" separately, allowing it to use practically no battery, yet still act as the "notification light" for this phone.
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Wait a second, where did you get this information from? This is the first time I heard of LG V20 having separate backlight between the main screen and second screen. Also in my own individual testing, I was not able to conclusively test that the main screen backlight and the second screen backlight are separate. Can you provide some evidence on this?
ID000001 said:
Wait a second, where did you get this information from? This is the first time I heard of LG V20 having separate backlight between the main screen and second screen. Also in my own individual testing, I was not able to conclusively test that the main screen backlight and the second screen backlight are separate. Can you provide some evidence on this?
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If you have a v20, just turn the screen off and look at it. If you turn the lights off in a room or cup your hand over it, you can see where the backlight from the second screen bleeds over into the main part of the screen. I have also been following the development of the custom widget support, and they have discussed the separate backlight there.
Also, the phone uses an LCD. You cant have anything displaying without having a backlight on. When you first turn the phone on, you know how for a second or so, the screen lights up but still looks black? That's the backlight turning on before the LCD layer has anything to display. If the backlight was not seperate, that is what the screen would look like with the second screen on and the phone asleep.
I hope this explains it for you and gives you some evidence for why it needs the seperate backlight.
gljones2001 said:
If you have a v20, just turn the screen off and look at it. If you turn the lights off in a room or cup your hand over it, you can see where the backlight from the second screen bleeds over into the main part of the screen. I have also been following the development of the custom widget support, and they have discussed the separate backlight there.
Also, the phone uses an LCD. You cant have anything displaying without having a backlight on. When you first turn the phone on, you know how for a second or so, the screen lights up but still looks black? That's the backlight turning on before the LCD layer has anything to display. If the backlight was not seperate, that is what the screen would look like with the second screen on and the phone asleep.
I hope this explains it for you and gives you some evidence for why it needs the seperate backlight.
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What you said does appear to be true. Which means the LG V20 is better designed than I gave it credit for. I always wondered why the AOD on an LCD screen still has decent battery and never had any conclusive evidence that the back-lights are separated. Thanks!
Yes, exactly, finally a rant that expresses my frustration.
All due respect, and gratitude to different ROMs and the guys who work hard to make them; but the reason I haven't jumped to LOS 16 is that the second screen doesn't perform the functions that I bought the phone for- taskbar + quick contacts + quick settings (and others). And when LOS uses that space it earmarks all of the 100x1080pixels to a massive notification bar. Who wants that? It's a waste of all that space.
Obviously the modders aren't to blame for this, but LG. However it seems far fewer people here seem to care for that compared to people I've interacted with outside.
@ID000001 Your welcome. Honestly, LG was actually pretty brilliant when they designed this.
@Lebatman I know, right? I have set this phone up for my dad, my Grandparents, and a couple friends, and they all love the second screen. Its one of the first phones where you could just look at the screen and go, "Oh. Its a message from my game. Just ignore it" or "Oh! I got a text! I need to check that!" This didn't come back to phones until the AOD on galaxy phones with the OLED screens. I love it. Its cheaper than a Samsung phone. You still cant get even a galaxy S5 for cheaper than the V20.