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iPhone jailbreaking (and all cell phone unlocking) made legal

Sorry if you are seeing this a second or third time. Sorry Sprint.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_wguy/ytech_wguy_tc3236
Owners of iPhones and other smartphones are one step closer towards taking complete control of their gadgets, thanks to a new government ruling Monday on the practice of "jailbreaking."
This weekend has seen a flurry of activity about digital rights, but the biggest news dropped Monday morning, when the FCC announced that it had made the controversial practice of “jailbreaking” your iPhone — or any other cell phone — legal.
Jailbreaking — the practice of unlocking a phone (and particularly an iPhone) so it can be used on another network and/or run other applications than those approved by Apple — has technically been illegal for years. Most jailbroken phones are used on the U.S. T-Mobile network or on overseas carriers, or are used to run applications that Apple refuses to sell, such as Safari ad-blocking apps, alternate keyboard layouts, or programs that change the interface to the iPhone's SMS system and the way its icons are laid out.
While technically illegal, no one has been sued or prosecuted for the practice. (Apple does seriously frown on the practice, and jailbreaking your phone will still void your warranty.) It’s estimated that more than a million iPhone owners have jailbroken their handsets.
Apple fought hard against the legalization, arguing that jailbreaking was a form of copyright violation. The FCC disagreed, saying that jailbreaking merely enhanced the inter-operability of the phone, and was thus legitimate under fair-use rules.

I saw this today, but haven't seen this much info on it yet. They ruled it's for educational purposes only, but still...stealing photoshop cs5 is for educational purposes only, too...as long as you don't make any profit on what you do with the program.

The decision has the potential to impact far more than just phones. I'm shocked to see it being reported as an iPhone Jailbreaking story instead of a huge reclamation of Fair Use. It covers a wide range of digital topics and voids many of the worst portions of the DMCA. This could have massive potential for change if upheld.
Sent from my EVO using XDA App.

Remember that this change still allows Apple, HTC, Samsung, Motorola, etc. to put in place measures to protect against such hacks.
But this is surely a great step forward.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=7353909#post7353909

iphone jalibreaking
what is the procedure for i-phone jail breaking

Is Motorola getting ready to ditch Android?

http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-features/54903-is-motorola-getting-ready-to-ditch-android
The article makes several key points:
"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google and even Google's numbers look less than reliable. There are 37 lawsuits on this platform since the beginning of 2010 many filed against companies like Motorola and complaints from the OEM on Google's responsiveness to their concerns are both common and strident," he explained.

"They are not happy and a review of all of this is what pushed HP to buy Palm and avoid Android all together
You have to consider why a company like Motorola would chose to support, or not support an OS - things may not be all that rosy for Google Experience Devices, in fact it sounds like companies like Motorola may actually resent Googles interference, and what they percieve as an inequitable distribution of profit (into Googles Pocket) on these devices.

Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. It takes years, then you have to get the hardware vendors to make systems for it, and the software guys to make software for it. HP already have an OS in WebOS; ditto RIM. Are they swimming in dev love right now?
>"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google"
Moto was near death after the Razr petered out, and was resuscitated back to life with the Droid series. Last I looked, its financials look a lot better than it was before its Android push. Ditto for HTC, which is now riding on a wave of cash. You can check on others.
Every for-profit company in the world is doing things to make...a profit. If it's not profitable, nobody would do it. Now, look at the rate of Android adoption for smartphones. Think all of those vendors are looking to lose money?
The trouble with holding Internet pundits as gospel is that they, like any for-profit entity, don't necessarily care about the facts as they do about sensationalizing them, even to the extent of spouting fibs. The more attention a blog post gets, the more hits, and the more ad revenue. Sad as it is to say, but truth and facts can be boring, and embellishment sells.

I think its all in the informations source. Wasn't there an article a month or two back that essentially discussed exactly how profitable Android is? Essentially calling it Google's most profitable venture ever for both themselves and their partners.
I think the proof is in handset shipments and growth. What is HTC's shipment growth over the past 2 years? Something in the neighborhood of 200%? and their projection is for a 300% increase over that this year? Those handset sales are driven primarily by Android. If they aren't making a profit on those handsets then they would have been unprofitable no matter what, because their prices wouldn't have changed. Whether it be Windows Mobile,Android or Brand Z their new handset is still going to be in the neighborhood of 599-650, so its their responsibility to make sure that price point is profitable for them. I don't see them being able to complain about slow growth since the sales growth and acceptance for the Android platform is pretty much meteoric.
I hardly see Motorola complaining about Android considering it and Verizon essentially saved them from becoming the next Nokia, a brand no one in America cares about. Are they hedging their bets? Possibly. Abandoning Android right now or in the foreseeable future though? I would say absolutely not.
Without Android, its pretty easy to say that Motorola and HTC would be in far worse financial shape than increasing their shipments and profits every quarter than they currently are. (Samsung not so much, they could have continued to be the OEM supplier for screens to HTC/Other brands who want to make phones) But in fact it was so profitable it encouraged Samsung to jump into the market themselves instead of just supplying parts. It gave those companies an instant way to compete with iOS.
Motorola announced today it sold 8.3 million handsets in the second quarter, earning the Mobile Devices division $1.7 billion in sales, and returning the unit to profitability after several quarters of losses. Over 2.7 million smartphones were part of Motorola’s overall handset sales, showing the vast growth in this segment, as the company reported zero smartphone sales in the same quarter in 2009. Although Motorola quarterly results don’t specifically name the biggest catalyst for such a change, it can be summarized in one word: Android.
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Thats from July of 2010. So from losses to profit, I can hardly see how that "wouldn't be turning out profitable" for them.

e.mote said:
Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. It takes years, then you have to get the hardware vendors to make systems for it, and the software guys to make software for it. HP already have an OS in WebOS; ditto RIM. Are they swimming in dev love right now?
>"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google"
Moto was near death after the Razr petered out, and was resuscitated back to life with the Droid series. Last I looked, its financials look a lot better than it was before its Android push. Ditto for HTC, which is now riding on a wave of cash. You can check on others.
Every for-profit company in the world is doing things to make...a profit. If it's not profitable, nobody would do it. Now, look at the rate of Android adoption for smartphones. Think all of those vendors are looking to lose money?
The trouble with holding Internet pundits as gospel is that they, like any for-profit entity, don't necessarily care about the facts as they do about sensationalizing them, even to the extent of spouting fibs. The more attention a blog post gets, the more hits, and the more ad revenue. Sad as it is to say, but truth and facts can be boring, and embellishment sells.
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You both make good points.
Thats when these boards work best. When people actually think through all the facets of a topic and don't just devolve into an Apple good/Android Bad rant.
However, in response to the comment: "Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. "
Certainly it is,
ANDROID is an operating system developed by a company called Google, that just "decided" to create an OS to compete with Apple.
That in turn was developed from an OS called Linux developed by Torvalds as an open source alternative to Windows.
Or take Windows Phone 7 - A company called Microsoft "Just decided to develop" and OS from the ground up to compete with Apple.
Problem isn't developing an OS, problem is marketing it and developing Apps.
Edit: I agree with you that that this is virtually impossible for Motorola. But I would have thought it impossible for HP too and yet, they had the creative insight to buy palm, and now they are doing it. Probably will crash and burn, but bottom line is: They DID abandon android.

Digital Man said:
ANDROID is an operating system developed by a company called Google, that just "decided" to create an OS to compete with Apple.
Or take Windows Phone 7 - A company called Microsoft "Just decided to develop" and OS from the ground up to compete with Apple.
Problem isn't developing an OS, problem is marketing it and developing Apps.
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I hope you understand that there difference between software companies deciding to make software and hardware companies deciding to make software.
Microsoft and Google already had experience and infrastructure in place to create new software. Motorola will be starting with...nothing. That is why Palm was purchased by HP, they needed a leg up on software experience to make new software development practical.

_RTFM_ said:
I hope you understand that there difference between software companies deciding to make software and hardware companies deciding to make software.
Microsoft and Google already had experience and infrastructure in place to create new software. Motorola will be starting with...nothing. That is why Palm was purchased by HP, they needed a leg up on software experience to make new software development practical.
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Knew that one was coming. Thats why companies hire employess. Thats why companies buy other companies.
Thats why companies like HP which are HARDWARE companies buy companies like Palm which are SOFTWARE companies. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Programmers are people, they can walk from software companies over to the building where the hardware company is located and start working there, on a shiny new OS as soon as they are hired or aquired.
Edit: Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.

Digital Man said:
Knew that one was coming. Thats why companies hire employess. Thats why companies buy other companies.
Thats why companies like HP which are HARDWARE companies buy companies like Palm which are SOFTWARE companies. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Programmers are people, they can walk from software companies over to the building where the hardware company is located and start working there, on a shiny new OS as soon as they are hired or aquired.
Edit: Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
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...ok, but in order for them to walk over there they need to be PAID, and an entire new wing of R&D needs to be built to support them. This is a massive investment that is VERY high risk that takes a long time.
Oh you're right, I had no clue Google started as a search engine. That means they are and have always been a software company. Just because "engine" is in the phrase doesn't mean it isn't software

_RTFM_ said:
...ok, but in order for them to walk over there they need to be PAID, and an entire new wing of R&D needs to be built to support them. This is a massive investment that is VERY high risk that takes a long time.
Oh you're right, I had no clue Google started as a search engine. That means they are and have always been a software company. Just because "engine" is in the phrase doesn't mean it isn't software
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Sarcasm aside, no, I'm still not sure a search engine is the same as a hardware operating system....
Her is a good article supporting the alternative point of view however:
Moto ditching Android: Silly Rumor
http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-developing-own-os-silly-rumor-20110325/
Note this line: Motorola is working on their own OS? What? Back that up. Several blogs are putting forth the rumor that Motorola’s friendship with Google is waning and that the cellphone manufacturer has been quietly hiring Apple and Adobe engineers with the aim of developing their own platform OS to compete with Android.
Note the part about quietly hiring from Apple and Adobe.
I honestly don't have a strong opinion one way or the other here. I am primarily playing Devils Advocate by throwing the orignal topic out here for discussion, as it is something that people have been talking about quite a bit on Motorola hardware boards.
I was curious to see other peoples points of view on the story-rumor.

Here is an interesting article about why Google might not care if Android ever makes money.
Android May Be the Greatest Legal Destruction of Wealth in History [Android]
TOP STORIES IN TECHNOLOGY | MARCH 25, 2011
http://gizmodo.com/#!5785983/android-may-be-the-greatest-legal-destruction-of-wealth-in-history

tinpusher said:
Here is an interesting article about why Google might not care if Android ever makes money.
Android May Be the Greatest Legal Destruction of Wealth in History [Android]
TOP STORIES IN TECHNOLOGY | MARCH 25, 2011
http://gizmodo.com/#!5785983/android-may-be-the-greatest-legal-destruction-of-wealth-in-history
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Thanks for posting this.
I have to laugh. I started this thread, and in effect was accused of being a conspiracy theorist wearing a tin-foil hat. So it makes me feel better knowing that the guys over at Gizmodo have some pretty shiny head-gear as well.

If Motorola leaves the Android community they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I really have a hard time believing Moto would be that stupid.
Where were they before Android? On the brink of death. Leaving now is suicide. Companies really need to stop thinking they are Apple. Apple is the exception to that proves rule.
If they took all the money they put into this rumored OS and sunk it into a better blur (or option to disable blur), better hardware, and FAST updates... they would rule the market.

th0r615 said:
If Motorola leaves the Android community they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I really have a hard time believing Moto would be that stupid.
Where were they before Android? On the brink of death. Leaving now is suicide. Companies really need to stop thinking they are Apple. Apple is the exception to that proves rule.
If they took all the money they put into this rumored OS and sunk it into a better blur (or option to disable blur), better hardware, and FAST updates... they would rule the market.
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Oh hell, some companies like Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot on an almost daily basis. Remember the Kin phone? Here is a quote from an article by Engadget:
"While it's hard to argue that Kin is an awful product, the saddest part of the story is that many of the people responsible for it knew it was -- they were largely victims of political circumstance, forced to release a phone that was practically raw in the middle."
In the end they sold something like 500 of the things.
Remember the Dell streak releasing crippled with Android 1.6?
And then there was windows Vista....
Companies often do things that seem to make no rational business sense.

It would be crazy for them to abandon the platform that single handedly prevented them from going into bankruptcy... Motorola was doing horrible before they teamed up with Verizon and released the Droid OG. Which was an insanely popular device. Motorola should be thanking Verizon and Google for still having jobs right now...

They would be crazy to stop embracing android. Not only is it generating business like crazy (everyone has seen or heard of the enormous numbers of android products being sold, numbers that are unseating the existing leaders of the mobile os market), all indications are that android is still growing. Why abandon success?
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

Actually it's as simple as this.. Would you abandon an OS that has the second largest apps for mobile? It would be dumb for any company to do such a thing.. I mean think about it.. What other choices do you have?? WM7, RIM, Palm etc?? It would take years for them to catch up, apps wise.. Right now, what makes these phone manufacturer tick, is the apps behind it.. Hence, that's the reason why I chose Android when I left iphone.. The apps.. So I don't think Motorola would abandon Android and jump ship anytime soon.. Or at all, for that matter..

Yeah I agree. I don't see this happening anytime soon, if at all. Especially looking within a few years down the road.

Motorola should just concentrate on making better quality hardware and leave th software to people who know what they are doing. Motorola use to mean quality, now it's just another phone maker in a sea of the same devices running the same software with nothing really revolutionary to offer buyers. If moto could make an android device with the quality of their razor they would destroy the competition.

The rumor that Moto is hiring software egr's has a glimmer of truth (and subsequently embellished for tabloid consumption). Moto is learning that there is a downside to the Android gravy train, which every co and its sister is jumping onto, and that is lack of differentiation.
Co's are trying different things. Asus is doing the integrated keyboard with the Transformer. HTC has the active digitizer where you can use a stylus. Archos is leaning on its PMP roots with strong multimedia support. But for the majority, differentiation will be minimal (mostly a custom GUI). The main determinant will be price. In other words, Android tabs will be commodity status very soon. This is good for the consumers, but not for the vendors.
This isn't the smartphone market any more, where supply is constrained by the carriers playing as gatekeepers. Price competition will be intense, and slapping on a custom GUI (as has been the practice for smartphones) will no longer be enough. Premium brands in smartphones do not automatically translate to the tablet market.
It'll be a free-for-all. And the guys that win will be those with the best value-add, brand strength, and distribution muscle. For the first, you need software peeps. Which is why Moto is stocking up.

Digital Man said:
Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
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This sentence does not make any sense

hi_its_ryan said:
This sentence does not make any sense
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Just saying that something doesn't make sense isn't very helpful. Try explaining WHY it doesn't make sense.
That would add something to the discussion.

Petition Against Software Patents

I'm not terribly optimistic this will go anywhere, but I signed it because I consider software patents to be the scourge of the software industry. They are especially deadly for start-ups and small companies working on innovative new products - exactly the people patents are supposed to protect.
http://www.petitiononline.com/pasp01/petition.html

Neo3D said:
I'm not terribly optimistic this will go anywhere, but I signed it because I consider software patents to be the scourge of the software industry. They are especially deadly for start-ups and small companies working on innovative new products - exactly the people patents are supposed to protect.
http://www.petitiononline.com/pasp01/petition.html
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If we get rid of software patents altogether, then startups and small companies will never get off the ground because as soon as they release something bigger companies will just take that work, repackage it, and drown out the small company with their vast marketing and advertising funds.
So who is being helped by eliminating software patents?

MaxCarnage said:
If we get rid of software patents altogether, then startups and small companies will never get off the ground because as soon as they release something bigger companies will just take that work, repackage it, and drown out the small company with their vast marketing and advertising funds.
So who is being helped by eliminating software patents?
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Most larger companies are not innovative enough to just uptake a new project. they are usually interested in the profit. Not the innovation.

lithid-cm said:
Most larger companies are not innovative enough to just uptake a new project. they are usually interested in the profit. Not the innovation.
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So, let's say that I am an independent developer (I am not) and I come up with an awesome new word processor that has amazing features that are unique and will revolutionize the industry. There are no more software patents so I package up my innovative new software, spend time gathering investors, create a small marketing campaign, and get my software boxed and stocked at Best Buy.
Microsoft sees my software and takes my designs and integrates them into Word. They then spend millions of dollars (pocket change to them, my entire company to me) advertising Word and getting my software pushed down into oblivion.
Where is the benefit to me as the developer in getting rid of software patents, unless I am a FOSS advocate and never intended to make money off my work anyway?
EDIT: By the way, I am not trying to troll or be argumentative just for the sake of it; I am genuinely trying to understand the benefit of eliminating software patents.

I'm not keen on removing software patents all together as I do believe in their ability to encourage innovation.
However, the current system is FUBAR and needs to be scrapped (which will never happen because any move towards reform represents a direct attack on the power base of the very wealthy - any prospective legislation would be DOA before it even got into committee)
Patent term lengths need to be drastically reduced to perhaps ten years tops with progressively higher patent fees to renew the term ($100-$1000-$10,000-$100,000 etc.) they need to be far more specific in scope than they currently are, and the way such infringement is handled internationally needs to be harmonized.
Such reform would have to go hand-in-hand with strong fair use protections for the general public.
Without a strong populist movement towards such a result, I doubt any politician would touch it as it would mean zero campaign contributions from the only entities capable of bankrolling an effective election campaign though.
Patents can only encourage innovation if innovation is NOT stifled by ridiculously broad language and obscenely long patent terms. Lifetime+90 years is absolutely insane.
The realtipping point is likely to be when corporations start uploading simulations of real animal and human consciousness (which will be possible one day soon) to digital storage and start trying to patent them - because the direction this society has chosen to head in will only result in precisely the above occurring.

MaxCarnage said:
So, let's say that I am an independent developer (I am not) and I come up with an awesome new word processor that has amazing features that are unique and will revolutionize the industry. There are no more software patents so I package up my innovative new software, spend time gathering investors, create a small marketing campaign, and get my software boxed and stocked at Best Buy.
Microsoft sees my software and takes my designs and integrates them into Word. They then spend millions of dollars (pocket change to them, my entire company to me) advertising Word and getting my software pushed down into oblivion.
Where is the benefit to me as the developer in getting rid of software patents, unless I am a FOSS advocate and never intended to make money off my work anyway?
EDIT: By the way, I am not trying to troll or be argumentative just for the sake of it; I am genuinely trying to understand the benefit of eliminating software patents.
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Logic in the EVO 4G forum? I must be in heaven.

lithid-cm said:
Most larger companies are not innovative enough to just uptake a new project. they are usually interested in the profit. Not the innovation.
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This is weird argument. It doesn't take much innovation (if any) to steal someone else's innovation. By doing that they also diminish a competitor's advantage, possibly/probably increasing their own profit.

Award Tour said:
This is weird argument. It doesn't take much innovation (if any) to steal someone else's innovation. By doing that they also diminish a competitor's advantage, possibly/probably increasing their own profit.
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Yeah, that was kind of the point I was trying to make. If companies can just steal ideas from independent developers without consequence, then there's no need for innovation once you become the top dog company. Wouldn't RIM be happier today if they could have repackaged and rebranded iOS during that first year that Apple entered the smartphone market instead of desperately trying make something competitive? Or PALM or anyone else?
Knowing that your hard work is up for grabs the second someone else gets wind of it isn't going to encourage innovation.

I'm opposed to software patents, but not because of some noble ideal about protecting small developers. They don't deserve state-granted monopoly privilege and artificial profits any more than the big companies do. Rather, I oppose them because they stifle innovation. For many, many years, taking existing software and tweaking and improving it was the norm, and it's how software naturally develops. Patents stifle the ability to make things better, and we as a society pay the price.
Frankly I find the idea of patents in general to be counter-intuitive and in some cases outright immoral. Let's suppose we are all cave-men, and no technology exists. We are all naked hairy homo sapiens living in caves. Then one day I figure out how to cut down a tree and build a house out of wood. It's completely insane to think that I could "patent" that idea, and force you to pay me if you want to build your own house out of your own wood. No, you'd see it and you'd build a house of your own and you'd tell me to **** off if I asked you for royalties. And guess what, people will still be motivated to innovate without patents. Patents make innovation a zero-sum game when it doesn't have to be that way.
Just my opinion and I see the validity of both sides. Just sharing my viewpoint, not interested in arguing.

I think it's more important that the patent system get a makeover with more specific rules.
It should not be allowed to get a patent on a product based on the extremely liberal rules descriptions they allow now.
Look at the SG Tab 10.1" versus iPad 2.
Perfect example of what I mean.

MaxCarnage said:
So, let's say that I am an independent developer (I am not) and I come up with an awesome new word processor that has amazing features that are unique and will revolutionize the industry. There are no more software patents so I package up my innovative new software, spend time gathering investors, create a small marketing campaign, and get my software boxed and stocked at Best Buy.
Microsoft sees my software and takes my designs and integrates them into Word. They then spend millions of dollars (pocket change to them, my entire company to me) advertising Word and getting my software pushed down into oblivion.
Where is the benefit to me as the developer in getting rid of software patents, unless I am a FOSS advocate and never intended to make money off my work anyway?
EDIT: By the way, I am not trying to troll or be argumentative just for the sake of it; I am genuinely trying to understand the benefit of eliminating software patents.
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You are confusing patents with copyright. If Microsoft copied your designs without a license, you sue for copyright infringement.
A decent quote from Wikipedia:
Copyright is the right of an author(s) to prevent others from copying their creative work without a license. Thus the author of a particular piece of software can sue someone that copies that software without a license. Copyright protection is given automatically and immediately without the need to register the copyright with a government, although registration does strengthen protection. Copyrighted material can also be kept secret. Often copyright infringement is relatively easy to determine. Copyright protection has proven to be a method for protecting investment in software innovation. Some people in the software industry have asserted that the additional protection given to one and removal of rights from every single other person is not needed and is not worth the downsides of expense, delay, uncertainty, abridgment of rights, and industry opportunity costs associated with patents. The differences between copyright protection and exclusion and patent protection and exclusion are vast. Where patents provide protection over a created idea, copyright protection only protects a particular manifestation of that idea; hence, patent protection impedes a great many more software developers and without respect for their own independent creation.
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I sure do like " this American life."

I understand both point of views but w/o patents, innovation dies.
Sent From My UN-Rooted Evo!

github said:
You are confusing patents with copyright. If Microsoft copied your designs without a license, you sue for copyright infringement.
A decent quote from Wikipedia:
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Deleted.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

[Analysis] Motorola cutting R&D costs and why that matters?

What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.

Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.

CSharpHeaven said:
What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
Which "other entities" are you referring to?
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
You have no idea what Motorola Mobility's budget is, nor what the corporate strategy is as they and Google move forward.
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
Your predictions are based on personal assumptions and a complete lack of knowledge regarding corporate acquisitions imo, and the resulting restructuring that occurs, and nothing to do with the article you have put up a link to. Every major organization which is bought out by another, usually bigger, organization goes through major restructuring, layoffs, plant/site closures, and ultimately alignment with the corporate strategies of the purchasing body. Customer service and support always suffers through this teething period. I predict Motorola Mobility won't even exist in 5 years, let alone design and manufacture devices. They will either be stripped and sold off, or swallowed whole and devoured by Google, but then again, my predictions are also assumptions.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.
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Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.

CaelanT said:
Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.
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Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile.
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded.
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did.

I'm so glad Motorola split. I love Motorola hardware.
Sent from my Atrix 4g MB860 running leaked official Motorola ICS

Slymayer said:
Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think many of us were expecting a Motorola nexus device.
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium

CSharpHeaven said:
Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance. So please explain where you get this theory of passing on financial losses from.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile. I'm not protesting your thread, and it makes no difference to me how much you have written about Android. I could write about knitting all day,but that doesn't mean I know how to "stitch one".
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan. We all know corporate big wigs get massive payouts. That's a given in any large corporation. Where do you get that Motorola couldn't afford to hire contractors from? I'm betting Motorola/Google have very good experience in budgeting. Companies do not grow as big as them without strategic budgeting, and a ruthless business sense. New technology is all about time to market............beating your competitor to release. It's never been about consumers, and this has nothing to do with budgets in the sense of lack of budget, but rather huge ROIC numbers of 25+% being required by greedy shareholders who will cancel NPI projects in the blink of an eye if they do not meet target costs of 60%-62% profit margins.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded. I have not argued this point with regards to the Chinese government, but rather the 5 year part. I see it that they will not exist in 5 years because if they aren't making phones they have nothing to exist for other than development, and they will be wholly integrated into Google by then. If Google doesn't want anyone to know, then how do you know?
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did. Seems like your whole post was pointed at budgetary cuts, R&D activity cost cutting, and Moto Mobility not making phones in 5 years. Maybe I was incorrect in reading between the lines and seeing reduced budgets, job losses, and a 5 year life span. In any event, what you said does not reflect the article you linked to other than R&D spending cuts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!

CaelanT said:
Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Back in March 2012 I started a thread with the following title: "Android a Fragmented, Differentiated, and Misrepresented Platform". I completed the first six parts taking me over 100 hours of work before I removed them which I have already provided the reason. I still have a copy of the original works. As you can guess by now, it would take a lot of effort just to answer your first question. I might complete the articles or use them as part of other future articles one day.
When others investing money in developing hardware for Android then Google has nothing to lose should market take a 360 degree on Android for instance.
You are assured bragging about something is not my style but I will go to the end of the world for what I believe in. Several parts of the articles actually covered the technical side of Android rather than the business model of it.
Sorry I can't make any useful comment about your fourth paragraph. I made a point and you turned into a very complicated matter in particular in the beginning of your paragraph.
I was actually being very careful to write Motorola Mobility wouldn't (most likely but not surely) make hardware such as smartphones in fives years time when it requires constant software support. The reason was Motorola Mobility develops other products such as Bluetooth headphones, TV Set Box, and etc.
It is my fault not citing from the article in the first place which was the following;
"Other impacted territories are Asia and India, with cuts in R&D spending across various locations in Chicago, Sunnyvale, and Beijing."
In my opinion the intention of Google to cut spending in R&D is far more important than what was being reported which was Google has realised even scaling down is going cost the company a fortune.
This is what wikipedia has to say about R&D
"In one model, the primary function of an R&D group is to develop new products; in the other model, the primary function of an R&D group is to discover and create new knowledge about scientific and technological topics for the purpose of uncovering and enabling development of valuable new products, processes, and services." -- Wikipedia
Even if Motorola Mobility uses both models that were described in above description one can say (as I did) Motorola Mobility or rather Google planned (might still be on) to stop or reduce developing new products or innovating new products/services/technology (second model). Obviously when R&D is scaled down then all the forces across all business processes also need to be scaled down otherwise, the business is simply will waste money.
Motorola Mobility stock share should lose values based on this report alone because clearly Motorola Mobility no longer wishes to be proactive in the very competitive market. From consumers point of view this should be a further warning that things are not promising at all.
Enjoy your long holiday and see you around on XDA soon.

I remember the article you wrote because I read it. Why you had to remove it I have no idea, and I am disappointed that you did.
<edit> Went back and looked through that thread. And here I thought I could be a royal arse at times! XDA can be a very rough place sometimes.
That being said, I manage R&D activities in a very large global company which is 85% focused on R&D and NPI, with very little manufacturing occurring other than with 3rd party vendors in low cost countries.
All arguments aside, I was pushing for an explanation of your comments which did not seem to relate much to the article you linked, or the thread title. Your last post explains your reasoning behind your comments much better.
Cheers!

Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860

tomh235 said:
Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your inputs. I have to disagree with your point on pure Android experience which you must meant Nexus phones. I'm glad you mentioned that since I had few things to say about it.
As it has been reported Google is expanding its Nexus program to allow multiple manufacturers to release their own Nexus version. A careful examination would reveal a brand in Android ecosystem only would be distinguishable by differentiation i.e. Home Launchers and features. Many Android users would agree that they often miss features when move on to a pure Android experience.
Now here is my take on the Nexus program. Not many people noted that the Nexus program has brought a huge financial reward to the manufacturers who participated in it by actually establishing themselves in Android market generating more revenue from selling their other product lines. Samsung is very good example, while their Nexus range did well but SGII, GNote (probably equal to GNexus), and SGIII did far better. HTC only has itself to blame for not taking advantage of the opportunity and even though the following year of their Nexus release they did well but they went down the hill by releasing handsets that were aggressively designed for profits only i.e. the Sensation range.
The same pattern can also be observed in Google Store where developers participate in Google's promotional programs where they reduce their prices for a period of time but end up with significant revenue increase and jumping ranking position in application listings.
Now that this marketing method has been proven to work with Android consumers it would be feasible for other manufacturers to join the Nexus program, at same time. I have my reservations about the impact of more than two manufacturers participating in the Nexus program.
What concerns me the most about Nexus program is its hidden agenda. For one, Google has been trying to make Cloud services as a vital entity in their mobile platform. The obsession with cloud services is a worrying factor especially when all parties (i.e., Google, Manufacturers, and Network Operators) involved wanting your data to be stored on their servers. Nexus phones share one feature in common and that is the ommission of the SD-Card port. The LG Optimus Nexus has been said not to have the SD-Card port either. Please remember, if corporates fail to predict the consumers behaviour correctly then they would attempt to introduce that behaviour to the consumers eventually.
I know Google enough (observations) to know they don't rush into things for not being noticed. While they have good alliances with their business partners but they can seek other agendas at same time. In the world of politics it is known as "Parallel Politics". Google is the most involved tech company in the world with global politic activities. I'm willing to say, their involvement is almost in the same level as the USA government in many terms.
In my opinion the lack of upgrades would be in Google's benefits since they own and run the Nexus program itself and in our case (Atrix and Proton owners) they own Motorola anyway. Motorola's Patents was a good reasoning point, for general public, to acquire Motorola but I have my feelings it was more than the patents, keeping my eyes on this anyway.
Sorry, I never meant to write this much but now that I did I would like also to expose the $100 offer program from Motorola. A publicity stunt that would look Motorola to come across considerate when it is hardly going to cost them anything in fact. Here are my reasons;
- Upset Motorola users wouldn't want anything to do with Motorola anymore therefore the $100 is worthless
- Many users have claimed they can get more money by selling their phones. The $100 offer therefore is worthless.
- Considering the above point Motorola in fact is ripping Motorola users twice over. Remember you have to give up your phone to quality for $100
- Virtually all Network Operators have recycling-program where they buy back phones. Therefore Motorola did not offer anything new to the ripped off customers
- A cheap attempt by Motorola to keep consumers on their brand to shift more new phones, in numbers, for future financial reports
Update:
Droid-life just reported the following; "Server Logs Hint at Motorola Nexus Tablet and Phone?"
Source: http://www.droid-life.com/2012/10/05/server-logs-hint-at-motorola-nexus-tablet-and-phone/
Busy time for Nexus Program this year where potentially five manufacturers (Motorola, Asus, HTC, Samsung, LG) will have Nexus devices out before the year is out.

[Custom Phones] [Open Source] Ideas Everyone!

UPDATED 1/7/13
1/7>Added a basic phone model structure layout to this
Hello,
I suppose laying out my business idea for others to take may not be great, but I wanted the communities opinion, since I would start this small and possible not for another year or so. Plus, if someone took the idea, I would be just as glad to see it.
I would like to manufacture two types of phones you rarely see on the market today (if at all)
First type, for the Dev and Tinkerer:
-These phones would be made as cheap as possible, with varying quality. I would like to keep the price as minimal as possible on these phones so that little profit is made, but that way I could get cheap open source devices out to the masses. Whether you want a cheap phone for the kids, or multiple devices for a dev team. Either way, the tricky part will be that I need to know how much to order, because the more I can get the parts in bulk, the cheaper it will be for me to make, and thus, for you all to buy. I am open to any ideas on making the casing, or if anyone has hardware deals or websites that would be good to use for a supplier, that information would be great!
Second type, Luxury:
-I like high quality items. I like fancy packaging, I like products made to LAST. These phones will counter the other devices by price greatly. While the cheaper phones I plan to offer at around $200-400, the luxury phones will be around $ 2,000-4,000. I do plan to profit off of these, but no more than to offset the low price of the cheaper phones. The luxury phones will offer premade designs and models, or more expensive, but entirely custom phones.
I plan to offer a lifetime warranty on the luxury phones. If we cannot fix it, half off a new device. I will also offer a limited warranty as well. I want you to have these devices as long as possible. I want easy to replace screens, modular hardware for upgrades or swapping out the internals but keeping the case (for expensive luxury shells).
The materials for the luxury phones would range from woods to metals like tungsten and titanium. For custom phones we would be open to any ideas you have. This includes extra additions like more buttons or notification LEDs. On phone model I plan for would make use of a set row of notification LEDs and buttons. We will also tailor the AOSP ROM installed on your device to how you want. I hope to be able to hire nice designers to theme the Android operating system to match your custom designed outer design of your phone.
Eventually I would like to venture into tablets yes, and if I start with small, side project type devices, I suppose most would be custom order. If you guys like the idea for the cheap phones I could try for a kickstarter if I can get the suppliers and employees lined up. That way we could order in bulk and deliver cheap devices to the masses.
A bit of me:
The reason why I wanted to do this is because I hate how devices built today are not meant to last. Aside from a few Nokia phones, things just seem cheap, plasticy. I personally would pay extra to have a nice metal shell and reinforced insides to my phone. I want to chose where my power and volume buttons go. I also hate the prices. I think for cheaper phones, we should pay less, and for quality phones, we can afford more.
The last thing, is stock ROMs. I hate them. I love AOSP, and I will work the Open Source feel into all the phones. You will have total control, and hopefully with the help of XDA, you can have a helpful community to help with all issues.I believe in personal costumer service, and if I come back to you in 2 years, I want you to saw your happy you bought a phone my team made, and that you would want to extend the devices life.
If you guys want to help, as questions, post ideas, make comments, feel free!
Basic:
-Price: As low as I can go! ($200-400)
-Internals: Mid range stuff, good enough to run everything smoothly, but the cheapest parts I can find.
-Shell: Possibly 3d printed plastic or other material that are cheap and still durable.
Starting line:
-Price: Around $400
-Internals, same as Basic, but possibly a bit better if requested, or just held in place more securely to survive more drops and beatings
-Shell: Car painting aluminum, steel, or other metals.
(for example http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dockplus/charging-dock-for-iphone-5 it looks plastic, but it's the paint. Very nice finish)
[I plan to offer basic customization options of these, and they may be around $500-600 if need be and could be a "flagship" phone to compete directly with other companies, although I assume the basic model alone will do that]
Luxury:
-Price: $1000-2000
-Internals: the reasonable best. Most likely a quad core processor, high amounts of storage (32GB or so). Internals here will be fairly customizable, possibly even tegra 3 chipsets if requested.
-Shell: TBA. These will be custom made cases, but ones that can be produced more easily, and we won't offer much of customer input for these. Most likely different cases ranging from wood to metal. Later on once we have a designer I plan to actually make drawings and have the community decide on the first wave of Luxury phones. Later I plan to make old custom models into luxury ones.
Custom:
-Price: $2000-4000
-Internals: Whatever they want. The best quality, everything internally will be ruggardized to take a beating. All components will be modular too, hopefully for luxury as well, for easy replacing of parts and screens, so you won't pay that huge up front price again since the case will be the expensive part of these phones.
-Shell: Literally, anything you can dream within realities laws. This is where I plan to have a skilled team, ready to make WHATEVER you want. Want LED trips so your phone lights a whole room the color of the rainbow when you get a text? Sure! Touch back panel? We can try! Extra buttons, yup!
Anything you can think of for a custom phone, we will try and make, and then quote you a price. This is the end goal of the company, and the phone manufacturing will probably start for the basic, and end with the luxury.

Not to be negative, but make sure you know what you're getting into ahead of time.
I did tons and tons of research not too long ago because I wanted to do something similar, and I ran into a lot walls with manufacturing. The mobile space is competitive and manufacturers are demanding. It's especially difficult when you're talking about custom designs.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium HD app

rj88 said:
Not to be negative, but make sure you know what you're getting into ahead of time.
I did tons and tons of research not too long ago because I wanted to do something similar, and I ran into a lot walls with manufacturing. The mobile space is competitive and manufacturers are demanding. It's especially difficult when you're talking about custom designs.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I've realized. The thing is, I think I just need to line everything up, then pull the trigger and get funding. I realize this will be a difficult task, but my main goal initially will simply be the cheap phones. It's my goal and passion to get the world more technology, and I want to see more people learn to develop for said devices.
I've still been looking at screens, devices, and parts. To say the least, it is overwhelming.
So far, it seems I could at the very least bulk order cheaper generic phones after getting a retail license, recase them in something more durable and nicer quality, and then resell those for as cheap as I could. Right now though, it seems I should be able to get mostly assembled chipsets, and then could add in my own displays and buttons, but the displays that are easiest to get are replacement ones it seems.
This is a daunting task, and is a little beyond my reach. People do great things daily though, and more and more this project is becoming a passion of mine. If you have any suggestions or links, it would be appreciated. I'm hoping to at least get a couple custom phones made to play around with by myself.
I have a friend who will put me into contact with a metal worker, although that would be costly and I really only plan on metal for the luxury phones.
I appreciate the concern and, realistically this is far reached, but if someone doesn't try to do this, we will forever be paying top dollar for phones that are MADE to break on us.
My main hates on current phones are
-Price for quality
-Designed to fail over time
-Often times closed off to hackers
-Locked in bloatware
-Locked off OS
I want to remedy all these things and hope I can do so using AOSP software and most likely the phone designs will be Open Source unless I would need to have some secret patented tech, although I plan for these start phones to evolve out of the community and the availability of everything. I would also like for community input to go into designing and manufacturing the phones. The luxury phones will be a separate thing entirely, and have a different mindset behind them, but those are plans for a much later date.

I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-

iytrix said:
So I've realized. The thing is, I think I just need to line everything up, then pull the trigger and get funding. I realize this will be a difficult task, but my main goal initially will simply be the cheap phones. It's my goal and passion to get the world more technology, and I want to see more people learn to develop for said devices.
I've still been looking at screens, devices, and parts. To say the least, it is overwhelming.
So far, it seems I could at the very least bulk order cheaper generic phones after getting a retail license, recase them in something more durable and nicer quality, and then resell those for as cheap as I could. Right now though, it seems I should be able to get mostly assembled chipsets, and then could add in my own displays and buttons, but the displays that are easiest to get are replacement ones it seems.
This is a daunting task, and is a little beyond my reach. People do great things daily though, and more and more this project is becoming a passion of mine. If you have any suggestions or links, it would be appreciated. I'm hoping to at least get a couple custom phones made to play around with by myself.
I have a friend who will put me into contact with a metal worker, although that would be costly and I really only plan on metal for the luxury phones.
I appreciate the concern and, realistically this is far reached, but if someone doesn't try to do this, we will forever be paying top dollar for phones that are MADE to break on us.
My main hates on current phones are
-Price for quality
-Designed to fail over time
-Often times closed off to hackers
-Locked in bloatware
-Locked off OS
I want to remedy all these things and hope I can do so using AOSP software and most likely the phone designs will be Open Source unless I would need to have some secret patented tech, although I plan for these start phones to evolve out of the community and the availability of everything. I would also like for community input to go into designing and manufacturing the phones. The luxury phones will be a separate thing entirely, and have a different mindset behind them, but those are plans for a much later date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, as i was just like you. First and foremost, what's your background?
I believe a team can do this successfully, but not an individual. Are you interested in partnering?
SouL Shadow said:
I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People will pay for what they want. Phones differ from tablets and most other electronics because they're considered a must have by consumers. Therefore, no matter what the price is, it'll sell, as long as it's what people want. Sprinkle in a good marketing campaign, and you can make consumers want it.

I only heard of one project like this that made it's success and that's the pandora board. Perhaps getting hints from their community would help you alot on this project.
Here's a link to their wiki
http://pandorawiki.org/Main_Page
and official site
http://www.openpandora.org/

SouL Shadow said:
I like your idea. I too have been thinking along these lines. Although quality, based on the HTC phones (Evo 4g, Evo 4g LTE) I own, hasn't been a concern. Features, both hardware design and software, are what motivate my desire for a custom phone. Not that I want anything extravagant, but no current phones have all the features I want.
I also realized the difficulty in such a venture. It would be nearly impossible to compete cost wise with other phones from big manufacturers. Custom phones would be the draw for customers willing to pay full price. But you also need to make sure the phones produced can be used on the chosen carriers networks. Most likely you'll need to obtain many hardware and software licenses. If you want to include Google apps/services then you also need to go through their validation process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To address these, agreed. The only hardware thing I myself want, is a nav bar notification strip. I will explain it if I ever get to making phones, but even though I have one idea, I plan to let customers design the luxury phones HOW THEY WANT. For the hacker and dev phones, I will allow as much support as I can to allow people to do what they want. These phones are all about you, it's just whether you want to buy the basics and go from there, or have a team I put together make the best piece of tech you've seen. The pricing I'm certain I can meet, at least, the $600 tag. I have to make deals though, get OEM partnerships, and order in BULK for the cheaper phones. Unfortunately, that means it would be hard to solidify a price until I know how many I can order. Google I see no issue with, they are an amazing company thankfully, and I know a few people there so I'm not very worried about that, the rest, will be some time of work though.
SouL Shadow said:
It's a massive undertaking to say the least. Especially in a market that is being flooded with iphones, TONS of android phones, and now the new windows 8 phones.
Also, in regards to the lifetimes of phones. The technology continues to advance rapidly, with new generations approximately every 18 months. New hardware, new software, new buzzwords, new hype. Unlike full sized computers, with so much different technology packed in to a tiny smart phone it's more important to keep current with the latest advances. Manufacturers know this drives consumers to look for new devices ever 2-3 years, which influences the life cycles of their product offerings.
I don't mean to discourage you, but it's a large, costly undertaking and any investors are going to want to know what will make your product successful enough to make them money. Especially in a market flooded with choices, filled with marketing hype and still sluggish in terms of overall consumer spending and economic stability. What will make your product stand out from the crowd?
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand the technology evolves, but I will build the phones to be as modular as possible. The main parts would be the board and the screen. So if you damage the screen, or a new tech comes out, we can replace it. Honestly, I still think a dual core 1.5ghz phone is better than a quad core because of the battery consumption, but we would change that out as desired (you'd pay for upgrades of course) but the reason for this is that you can keep your nice case, I don't expect a titanium case to because unusable in 2-5 years, and that would be a huge part of the price tag. So keeping a luxury phone could possibly end up saving you money if you take good care of it, but that's up to the user and their lifestyle.
rj88 said:
I understand, as i was just like you. First and foremost, what's your background?
I believe a team can do this successfully, but not an individual. Are you interested in partnering?
People will pay for what they want. Phones differ from tablets and most other electronics because they're considered a must have by consumers. Therefore, no matter what the price is, it'll sell, as long as it's what people want. Sprinkle in a good marketing campaign, and you can make consumers want it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately I don't have much of a background. Mostly just contacts, ideas, and passion to do a business right. Unfortunately, I am not much about making money, which makes things harder for partners and investors. My main goal here is to get the peoples phones to the people for a good price, and the secondarily, making the highest quality, and longest lasting phones on the market, and also be the first phone that you can customize how the whole phone looks and works with the designers, for a fee of course. I would like the high price of the luxury phones to offset the low price of the basic phones.
Though, yes, I do need, and would like partners. Right now I'm looking into
-metalwork
-graphic design
-coding
-engineer (or someone good with hardware)
For the entry level phones I was even looking into possibly 3d printing the shells for the phones. I would need metalwork to do the luxury phones though, as well as a coder and graphic design artists to customize the customers Android OS to look like they want, and also work with any buttons or crazy addons they put on their phone. I would also like someone who can be clever with our hardware. The more custom we can get with it, the more options we have, and the better we can push a product. I do realize though that depending on who or what I can get, I may have to settle for a basic board all ready to go, and putting a case and screen on it. I would not like to do that, but the limit is only physically what I am able to do. I planned to basically manage everything and help with design, customer interaction, and dealing with the community. The only person I have so far is a contact number for a metalworker I will try and contact, and I KNOW someone who could code Android from the ground up, but I haven't the slighest idea if he would actually start in this business with me.
If you have interest or partnership ideas, feel free to PM me, but this is a fledgling product, and I wanted a community reaction first.
Riyal said:
I only heard of one project like this that made it's success and that's the pandora board. Perhaps getting hints from their community would help you alot on this project.
Here's a link to their wiki
http://pandorawiki.org/Main_Page
and official site
http://www.openpandora.org/
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Click to collapse
Thank you, I will check this out! I would like "my" community to be XDA hopefully, since so many devs here already do things for android, and I think people would like completely open phones to try and do what they want with them, without the restrictions the big companies put in place like locking everything down.

iytrix said:
To address these, agreed. The only hardware thing I myself want, is a nav bar notification strip. I will explain it if I ever get to making phones, but even though I have one idea, I plan to let customers design the luxury phones HOW THEY WANT. For the hacker and dev phones, I will allow as much support as I can to allow people to do what they want. These phones are all about you, it's just whether you want to buy the basics and go from there, or have a team I put together make the best piece of tech you've seen. The pricing I'm certain I can meet, at least, the $600 tag. I have to make deals though, get OEM partnerships, and order in BULK for the cheaper phones. Unfortunately, that means it would be hard to solidify a price until I know how many I can order. Google I see no issue with, they are an amazing company thankfully, and I know a few people there so I'm not very worried about that, the rest, will be some time of work though.
I understand the technology evolves, but I will build the phones to be as modular as possible. The main parts would be the board and the screen. So if you damage the screen, or a new tech comes out, we can replace it. Honestly, I still think a dual core 1.5ghz phone is better than a quad core because of the battery consumption, but we would change that out as desired (you'd pay for upgrades of course) but the reason for this is that you can keep your nice case, I don't expect a titanium case to because unusable in 2-5 years, and that would be a huge part of the price tag. So keeping a luxury phone could possibly end up saving you money if you take good care of it, but that's up to the user and their lifestyle.
Unfortunately I don't have much of a background. Mostly just contacts, ideas, and passion to do a business right. Unfortunately, I am not much about making money, which makes things harder for partners and investors. My main goal here is to get the peoples phones to the people for a good price, and the secondarily, making the highest quality, and longest lasting phones on the market, and also be the first phone that you can customize how the whole phone looks and works with the designers, for a fee of course. I would like the high price of the luxury phones to offset the low price of the basic phones.
Though, yes, I do need, and would like partners. Right now I'm looking into
-metalwork
-graphic design
-coding
-engineer (or someone good with hardware)
For the entry level phones I was even looking into possibly 3d printing the shells for the phones. I would need metalwork to do the luxury phones though, as well as a coder and graphic design artists to customize the customers Android OS to look like they want, and also work with any buttons or crazy addons they put on their phone. I would also like someone who can be clever with our hardware. The more custom we can get with it, the more options we have, and the better we can push a product. I do realize though that depending on who or what I can get, I may have to settle for a basic board all ready to go, and putting a case and screen on it. I would not like to do that, but the limit is only physically what I am able to do. I planned to basically manage everything and help with design, customer interaction, and dealing with the community. The only person I have so far is a contact number for a metalworker I will try and contact, and I KNOW someone who could code Android from the ground up, but I haven't the slighest idea if he would actually start in this business with me.
If you have interest or partnership ideas, feel free to PM me, but this is a fledgling product, and I wanted a community reaction first.
Thank you, I will check this out! I would like "my" community to be XDA hopefully, since so many devs here already do things for android, and I think people would like completely open phones to try and do what they want with them, without the restrictions the big companies put in place like locking everything down.
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Click to collapse
Ok, now I see a viable plan starting to form. The only major issue I see is the pricing for custom phones. Of course luxury phones would cost, especially depending on the options. Probably not a HUGE market for these, but they would fall in to the high end of custom phones. For the developer/hobbyist (xda) market you would need a lower starting price, with reasonably priced add-ons. Over $1,000 for a BASIC custom wouldn't work very well. Consider anyone could purchase a dragonboard (qualcomm, snapdragon S4) fully assembled with housing and get access to some basic binaries or source code, for $1,000. Those are developer units.
I'm not trying to shoot down your ideas, I'm actually very interested in this. The biggest hurdle is sourcing the right parts for the right price and targeting the right audience. If those details can be worked out, then it's only a matter of writing up a good business plan, securing investors, and outsourcing much of the basic work for the cheapest price.
I have some additional ideas and a few resources. If your interested and truly serious, pm me and we can talk in greater detail.
-SLS-

I've been looking along one of these lines too - the cheaper custom phones. I've done some research and found that many Chinese manufacturers and some Indian manufacturers use a system where one company provides/facilitates mostly everything in software and hardware which both can be customized within certain limits.
Companies in China using this model has been able to release phones from their home office/workshop with <10 members as family businesses. This business model has been quite successful in developing nations with some of these companies (Micromax/Karbonn) overtaking bigger vendors like LG/Motorola in India. Qualcomm has a program like this I heard is quite popular among these Chinese & Indian manufacturers: https://qrd.qualcomm.com/ I think Mediatek and Spreadtrum also have such programs. You might want to try this to see how much it can help in your model.

Some guidelines :
Making these devices shouldnt be that expensive as per device as there are several factories in china willing to make these according to your specs but unfortunanetly u need an order from 1000-10000 Devices.
as for
-CPU , it aint the most expensive part as Tegra 3 , EXYNOS 4 Are pretty cheap to buy and these companies are willing too sell a smaller bulk ( it's often left overchips from other companies depending on the successrate as they make 1.4 million chips for a 1million order because of the failrate of making the chips. so the left over chips from the 400 000 that do work are what they sell out cheap/smaller bulk )
-Screen : and IPS 5.0 inch 1920x1080p Screen shouldnt be expensive either as many chinese cellphones for sub $350 dollars but i believe you can find a 4.3-4.7 inch 720p for a much better price if you want a smaller screen-
- Case: shouldnt neither be a problem but you have too make it your own design and have it fit perfectly
-board : you need someone to design your pcb board with all the powerchips etc
i believe the sum per phone should be around $400 depending but to be honest i rather buy a oppo or some other expensive chinese phone

Nick14 said:
Some guidelines :
Making these devices shouldnt be that expensive as per device as there are several factories in china willing to make these according to your specs but unfortunanetly u need an order from 1000-10000 Devices.
as for
-CPU , it aint the most expensive part as Tegra 3 , EXYNOS 4 Are pretty cheap to buy and these companies are willing too sell a smaller bulk ( it's often left overchips from other companies depending on the successrate as they make 1.4 million chips for a 1million order because of the failrate of making the chips. so the left over chips from the 400 000 that do work are what they sell out cheap/smaller bulk )
-Screen : and IPS 5.0 inch 1920x1080p Screen shouldnt be expensive either as many chinese cellphones for sub $350 dollars but i believe you can find a 4.3-4.7 inch 720p for a much better price if you want a smaller screen-
- Case: shouldnt neither be a problem but you have too make it your own design and have it fit perfectly
-board : you need someone to design your pcb board with all the powerchips etc
i believe the sum per phone should be around $400 depending but to be honest i rather buy a oppo or some other expensive chinese phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow. Very helpful!
I planned to make the cases here. Probably offer 3d printed and polycarbonate options if 3d printing can get me decent cases at a decent rate. I feel like I could give out a few 3d printed cases for free since the big cost is really the printer.
The basic idea would basically be the chinese phones, but it would be local is the US, offering full support and service, plus I would have deals with google so nothing would be shady or questionable like it is with getting the chines devices. Plus everything would be fully open and supported for developers. If you did a crazy hardware mod and messed something up, we would still try and help you out. I really dislike the closed mindset of current companies
Thank you for the help though, very good information. I think at some point it would be nice to poll for what people want from a phone too.
Sent from my KFOT using xda app-developers app

I'd be interested in working with you on the hardware and software. I'm going into computer science later on this year, and I already have experience working with Allwinner chips, as well as some smaller ARM stuff. Shoot me a PM and we can talk.

reply
The very early Smartwatch

depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?

streetpounder said:
depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would largerly depend on the size and cost. Current emmc flash chips are built on to the pcb taking up very little space. Current smart phones are about 85% screen and battery, 10% pcb, and about 5% enclosure. (I made those numbers up for this example, but it should be close) Then there's the issue of power consumption. I don't know anything about either one, but I would guess the emmc would be more power efficient. And finally there's the issue of firmware. You'd need to implement new code in to the proprietary boot loaders so they can access the different type of storage.
In short, it's probably doable, but the time and cost to develop are probably not feasible for a small start-up. Plus there's the question of efficiency which is very important for this application.
-SLS-

streetpounder said:
depending on the chassis size and power consumption... has anyone ever though about using a removable msata ssd in a phone for storage? right now you can find those up to 256 GB and possibly 512 and they are fairly compact but swappable. No sure what it would take to implement an msata controller setup into such a beast of if there is anything out there as such?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pretty much things like this that we would love to look into once we got a truly custom phone department up. Eventually we would like to incorporate the best ideas into non-custom but still high end phones. SouL Shadow gave you above the best answer to if we can or will do it, and probably not until we had a cashflow going and more people to develop things like that for the custom phones. It's ideas like this though that never get made or done because no one cares to do it but I feel like certain types of people would pay good money to have us build them their ideas with them, plus it will be unique to you, and who else can say they designed their own phone?
SouL Shadow said:
It would largerly depend on the size and cost. Current emmc flash chips are built on to the pcb taking up very little space. Current smart phones are about 85% screen and battery, 10% pcb, and about 5% enclosure. (I made those numbers up for this example, but it should be close) Then there's the issue of power consumption. I don't know anything about either one, but I would guess the emmc would be more power efficient. And finally there's the issue of firmware. You'd need to implement new code in to the proprietary boot loaders so they can access the different type of storage.
In short, it's probably doable, but the time and cost to develop are probably not feasible for a small start-up. Plus there's the question of efficiency which is very important for this application.
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this statement