Related
I would like to see what people think.
wth!!! that is retarded!!
How can the government even grant most of these patents? You invent the wheel, sure it makes life MUCH simpler for everyone, you deserve a patent. You start using latex instead of sheep skins for condom production - bravo - grant a patent. On the other hand, all these iPhone patents do is stifle innovation and overload the legal system. Plus, most of these "patents" are so vague that they're virtually guaranteed to have precedent by someone other than Apple patent holders. Really hope Google steps into this frey and not only helps HTC to squash Apple's claims, but also publically lay into the patent office for granting these things in the first place.
Good god almighty, those are ****ing stupid patents to grant.
bundys said:
How can the government even grant most of these patents? You invent the wheel, sure it makes life MUCH simpler for everyone, you deserve a patent. You start using latex instead of sheep skins for condom production - bravo - grant a patent. On the other hand, all these iPhone patents do is stifle innovation and overload the legal system. Plus, most of these "patents" are so vague that they're virtually guaranteed to have precedent by someone other than Apple patent holders. Really hope Google steps into this frey and not only helps HTC to squash Apple's claims, but also publically lay into the patent office for granting these things in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I hope this goes toward deconstructing the patent system and exposing for what it truly is--not a protection for intellectual property, but a tool for naked corporate greed.
Steve Jobs is a big fat ****....
He's going after android. Check this http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/...lawsuit?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_engadget
Steve Jobs is an idiot. He cant handle any competition, he knows his device is inferior and cant handle that. He is shaking in his boots right now with the rapid growth of android. I really hope Google/HTC give him a big F you and put him in his place.
What's the point of this poll?
Who the heck in this forum is going to vote Yes?
No one will, except of course for DMaverick and pr0cl1v1ty.
Am I the only thinking that this would be the perfect time for google to start showing Ads on TV with the theme of look what our device can do that the iphone cant?
I would pay good money to see the look on Steve Jobs face the first time he sees this.
HTC should sue Apple for being stupid.
Software patents need to go, but how much you wanna bet that this is about Apple pre-emptively suing HTC before HTC sue *them*? I bet this is a face-saving measure. They'll cross-license and that will be the end of it.
I do agree that Apple has at least something to hold against HTC *cough* Android *cough* what comes to the patent infringements. In addition I also think that this is some laughable and needless muscle flexing on Apple's part and to think that it wouldn't be regarded as a proxy attack at Android and Google is just preposterous.
Come whatever may since this is going to get really ugly but I think Apple is not going to be the one coming out on top.
What an easy way to get money by licensing the patents...see what Nokia is doing on Apple...so now even Apple settles a deal with Nokia Apple may not need to get a penny out from its pocket...
Steve Jobs will talk **** about Android but he's too scared to sue Google so he sues HTC..haha thats a good one Steve, how about you go back into hiding
jp_macaroni said:
HTC should sue Apple for being stupid.
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Better yet, HTC should pull out the big guns (Microsoft) to sue them
Checkers or Chess?
Not cool Apple....especially since you stole from xerox etc(oh and Steve spoke of blatantly stealing from others)....but if you want to get to the root of it all Apple feels extremely threatened by Google/Android....Google is all about innovation and in Androids infant stages they blew Google off. Remember how much Apple used google maps to sell the iPhone when it was 1st introduced(the irony)....Now Android is growing up and its more of a competitor. But if you go against one you have to go against all of the companies with custom versions of Android in one way or another....I think the company that everyone keeps forgetting about is Palm...They were the catalysts for the mobile OS's we love today....The only reason HTC is in the crossfire is because of the Sense UI. But if you attack Sense UI, then you must attack Blur, Rachael, Dell's custom UI, and TouchWiz....(Thats HTC, Motorola, Sony Ericcson, Dell and Samsung) So instead of Apple focusing on bringing innovative products and services it chooses to contend with Google in a very risky game of chess. I personally feel many of Apple's policies slow innovation and impede competition.(app store**cough**) Apple I hope you get taught a humbling lesson.
If you read the breakdown of all the patents that they claim have been infringed upon, you can easily see that these would not only apply to Android, but a large variety of desktop operating systems and mobile oses as well.
engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/
I am sorry but what apple is doing with their iphone and mobile OS platform is just not good for growth long term; i will however give them the benefit of the doubt as far as short term growth but long term they are only hurting themselves unless they really can get the government to uphold all these patents...
personally i think these patents are so pathetic and i do not think the government had any clue what they were patenting when they actually allowed apple to get the patents that they did... the government nor did anyone else have any clue what the mobile world would like like it does now, 3 years ago when those patents were first granted... i mean, can you imagine the money the guy who patented urinal cakes makes if he invented and patented those things right after urinals were invented? some technology is better left unprotected by uncle same for the good of advancement... how the hell can you have a patent on a screen that registers multiple touches to it? that is the most unorthodox thing i think i have ever heard in my life... apple put out a great product, no doubt but they are going about every wrong direction in keeping their product and legacy alive... continue to innovate rather than play defense behind lawyers... i would rather buy from a continuously innovative company that promotes the growth of their products rather than a company who puts out 1 good product and then attacks everyone else to keep their product at the top, and thats just a matter of respect for a business...
I will admit, when the iphone first came out, that was the gadget to have and it was hands down the best phone and to some extent still is... apple has controlled every aspect of the phones growth and has more/less been very opposing to the group of jailbreakers and iphone hackers that have tried to bring 3rd party software to the phones (remember those updates that bricked a lot of peoples phones?). But with that said there comes a time where a company needs to let go, they did great at getting the phone, and to a certain extent, the entire mobile market really moving but after awhile they need to let things go and realize that they have already created a legacy and the users need to take the phone and platform the direction they want to go.
Simplicity is the key to get something started, complexity is the key to keep that same thing interesting...
Apple's only biting because HTC (with Google) are producing sales stealing devices. As far as I am aware, this is the first time Apple has filed patent breaches without first negotiating with the infringing party.
In legal circles, this is truely the response from a very immature, emotional, foot stomping little boy.
GO HTC!! GO Android!! GO you good thing!!
Honestly, I voted that I do agree with some of the patents that they had been granted, not all. Maybe through this mess we'll see some great innovation; interfaces that we've never considered before, alterations to common ideals of the way our phones operate. Google has brought us a good thing. From the perspective of apple, it would be intelligent to stop the source (htc), if there were infringing content being distributed (to be decided I guess). Google provides the best mobile OS available, HTC distributes it. It will end well for the consumer though, I promise.
"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."
- Steve Jobs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU
What a f-tard.
From what I can gather, the claims at its core appear to be about android and wm. I would like to see Google and Microsoft join forces on this one and get behind HTC.
Cut and paste....
Microsoft says Android infringes on its patents, licenses HTC (update: talking to other Android manufacturers as well)
By Vladislav Savov posted Apr 28th 2010 at 12:40PM
The lawyers up in Redmond seem to have been woken from their slumber with the sudden realization that -- oh look! -- Google's Android OS infringes on Microsoft's boatload of software patents. How specifically it does so is not identified, but Microsoft believes that elements from both the user interface and the underlying operating system are in violation of its rights. This is very much in keeping with the Windows maker's crusade to assert patent claims over Linux, which in the past has garnished it with cross-licensing deals with Amazon and Xandros, as well as a settlement from TomTom. Lawsuits are not yet being discussed here, but lest you think this is a small-time disturbance, longtime Windows Mobile / Windows Phone partner HTC has already decided to shorten its list of troubles by ponying up for a license from Microsoft that covers its Android phones -- it would be pretty insane if Microsoft sued one of its biggest and most important hardware manufacturers for patent infringement, after all. Even still, it's now an unfortunate fact that HTC is having to pay Microsoft royalties to use Google's operating system. Strange days, indeed.
Update: Microsoft deputy general counsel of intellectual property Horacio Gutierrez just sent us a statement saying that the company's been "talking to several device manufacturers to address our concerns relative to the Android mobile platform." We're taking that to mean the same as above: Microsoft isn't too interested in suing any of its Windows Mobile / Windows Phone partners, so it's trying to work out patent license deals with those companies in advance of any nastiness. It's an interesting strategy: patents forbid anyone from making, using, or selling your invention, so Redmond can protect its partners while still leaving open the possibility of a lawsuit with Google itself down the line. In fact, we'd almost say it seems like Microsoft's agreement with HTC is as much of a threat to Google as Apple's lawsuit -- Redmond's basically saying you can't sell an Android device without paying a license fee, and we'd bet those fees are real close to the Windows Phone 7 license fee. Clever, clever -- we'll see how this one plays out. Here's Horacio's full statement:
Microsoft has a decades-long record of investment in software platforms. As a result, we have built a significant patent portfolio in this field, and we have a responsibility to our customers, partners, and shareholders to ensure that competitors do not free ride on our innovations. We have also consistently taken a proactive approach to licensing to resolve IP infringement by other companies, and have been talking with several device manufacturers to address our concerns relative to the Android mobile platform.
Via Engadget. -----> http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/28/microsoft-says-android-infringes-on-its-patents-licenses-htc/
Seems like interesting times ahead.
It doesn't matter, HTC cooperated nicely with Microsoft. Microsoft brokered a deal licensing their technology to HTC. Engadget (I read this on Phandroid) also states though, in another article, that this could raise the price of Android phones.
m.gizmodo.com/site?t=NhIoa9.xgxKeRWKcnVfXQw&sid=gizmodo
Eclair~ said:
this could raise the price of Android phones.
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Wonderful (sarcasm).. if this did happen, I hope it happens later in the summer..
I would be curious to know if htc was aware that this was coming before they took a pass on Palm? The deal with Microsoft didnt happen overnight but certainly if they knew it was coming that juicy patent portfolio palm is sitting on would have been more enticing. That ship has now sailed with the HP aquisition announced today so its just an odd tidbit to speculate about at this point I guess.
krabman said:
I would be curious to know if htc was aware that this was coming before they took a pass on Palm? The deal with Microsoft didnt happen overnight but certainly if they knew it was coming that juicy patent portfolio palm is sitting on would have been more enticing. That ship has now sailed with the HP aquisition announced today so its just an odd tidbit to speculate about at this point I guess.
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Interesting thought for sure.
The HP deal is huge. WebOS is an amazing platform and now it has the financial backing it desperately needed. I'm mostly excited about WebOS's integration into the HP tablets. I might pick one up if they a good job with it.
Competition is definitely heating up with iPhone 4.0, HP WebOS, Blackberry 6.0 and Symbian 3! Hopefully Android will come out of top!
I hope they all do well, means more options for us.
Sick of these bloated American companies practising lawsuits and claims instead of making better products, don't be evil Microsoft!
And Just as I was typing this, my windows 7 suddenly started to shutdown as if it knew what I was typing... (restart after update reminder popped up, while typing... lol)
man, i'm so sick of everyone attacking Android. Just because it's awesome, innovative, open, and growing because everyone wants it the big companies can't do anything other than try to stall it's growth through litigation.
I'm fed up with all these stupid ass patent infringement cases. I wish the Gov't would step in and clean up how tech patents are granted.. That would allow for more innovation which is good for us (consumers) which are supposed to be what this is all about. Not protecting BIG CORPORATIONS and fattening their pockets.
The government doesnt step up and do anything because they are employees of the various huge companies whose contributions gave them the money to get elected, in other words they are owned by them. Big companies love these things because basically in the patent world you dont need to be right, you just need to have more money. Make no mistake, its not android they are attacking, its google. Everyone fears google, a company who is in a position to become the most powerful private entity that ever existed. This is how their search engine gets stripped out of phones, apple makes kissy face with microsoft, and on and on, you can see it everyhwere.
One last one, America does not have a monopoly on bloated greedy companies.
This debate reminds me of an article I read about the apple lawsuit a month or so ago.
The Ugly Nexus One:
http://www.maclife.com/article/news/ugly_nexus_one_if_apple_wins_patent_suits
I love the power crank.
Oddly enough, I read a theory someone postulated that Microsoft is doing this to, in some way, provide HTC some shielding from the Apple suit a la "No, we're infringing on THESE guys's patents, and we're paying them for it". Definitely an interesting theory, and it wouldn't make sense for Microsoft to deliberately try to harm their largest developer of Windows Phones. Only time will tell, I suppose...
ChillRays said:
This debate reminds me of an article I read about the apple lawsuit a month or so ago.
The Ugly Nexus One:
http://www.maclife.com/article/news/ugly_nexus_one_if_apple_wins_patent_suits
I love the power crank.
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Funny thing is that's exactly what 2 of my home screens look like, random groupings of icons, with space for new widgets or apps.
I still can’t believe that you can patent software under US law. Its crazy. You can’t in Europe (well you can, but it has to be part of a patent for hardware).
Cases like this illustrate how stupid unproductive it is. How can one company be allowed claim an exclusive right to software doing something in a certain way…?
BigDamHero said:
I still can’t believe that you can patent software under US law. Its crazy. You can’t in Europe (well you can, but it has to be part of a patent for hardware).
Cases like this illustrate how stupid unproductive it is. How can one company be allowed claim an exclusive right to software doing something in a certain way…?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My thoughts exactly
MaximReapage said:
Oddly enough, I read a theory someone postulated that Microsoft is doing this to, in some way, provide HTC some shielding from the Apple suit a la "No, we're infringing on THESE guys's patents, and we're paying them for it". Definitely an interesting theory, and it wouldn't make sense for Microsoft to deliberately try to harm their largest developer of Windows Phones. Only time will tell, I suppose...
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Click to collapse
You know I posted that theory on engadget, and if that's the case then by all means good move HTC and way to go Microsoft. I would like to know the fee for said licensing though.
And better yet I would love to know if in fact Linux does infringe on Microsoft's patents. I've read that Microsoft has always went around to smaller companies using Linux and bullied them into paying license fees, but that one company stood up to them and Microsoft backed down. Because Microsoft hasnt ever made it public which code that Linux actually infringes and if is ever released then it will more than likely be yanked from Linux thereby Microsoft would have no way of making money off all these companies when it SHOULDN't be anyway.
I know this forum has a lot of talented guys that know OS's especially Microsoft and Linux. What's your guys take on this?
Another question a person might ask considering the kissy face microsoft has been making with apple lately is why did they not pursue licensing agreements with apple on some of that IP? MS has nearly 11000 active patents in its portfolio including a broad range of touch input patents. Here is an example..... cut and paste...
Multi-touch uses, gestures, and implementation with the following abstract:
A tablet PC having an interactive display, which is touchscreen enabled, may be enhanced to provide a user with superior usability and efficiency. A touchscreen device may be configured to receive multiple concurrent touchscreen contacts. The attributes of the multiple concurrent touchscreen contracts may be mapped to operations performed on the computing device. As a result, a user can trigger the execution of the toggle accessibility aid operation and the screen rotation operation with greater convenience. Moreover, the tablet PC may be configured to map an operation to a hand gesture or input.... end cut and paste.
The patent application filing date is May 12, 2006, or a few months before Apples famous multi touch patent application. So, a simple cost versus profit business decision or part of a grander strategy in light of this latest?
These patent infringements are stretching. They're trying to patent intuitive processes/gestures and not the actual technology. If it flies in court, it will be because the lawyers involved are too stupid to see the difference.
It's like establishing the first road by using the same path over and over, and then claiming to have patented the action of driving on a road and suing all other road builders. That's going to piss off mightily the guy who just spent time and money to develop asphalt, and rightfully so.
Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and his butt-boy Steve Ballmer need to unpucker their asses and shut the hell up.
BigDamHero said:
I still can’t believe that you can patent software under US law. Its crazy. You can’t in Europe (well you can, but it has to be part of a patent for hardware).
Cases like this illustrate how stupid unproductive it is. How can one company be allowed claim an exclusive right to software doing something in a certain way…?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right.
It's because here in the US, lawyers and judges are by and large too stupid to understand any technology more complex than a toaster. There are exceptions, but they're vastly outnumbered. The worst part is, they seem to multiply like rabbits, they're all hungry and they'll take any idiotic argument they can to court for the off chance of a big payday.
I think actually the license agreement will be to use Microsoft's FAT/FAT32 file system that is on the SD card. FAT and FAT32 is a widely used file system but is microsoft property, is was ignored by microsoft for years and then they realised that they could make money from it, as cameras, photo frames, phones and linux has it.
So the reason there quiet about it is because if it's only the filesystem then no one can dismiss the linux violates the patents news story.
What exactly did Android do to piss Microsoft off ?
hey guys I came across this article on msn give it a read and leave your comments. ANDROID RULES!!!! Typical Apple bulls**t!!!
By Tony Bradley
What If Steve Jobs Is Right?
Apple has been engaged in heated legal battles around the world claiming that Android smartphones and tablets infringe on its patents. Android loyalists see the legal attacks as a desperate, oppressive move by Apple to stifle competition, but perhaps the success of Android is a function of the ways it "borrows" Apple intellectual property.
According to leaked excerpts from the Steve Jobs biography which will be officially released tomorrow, Jobs is quoted saying, "I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this."
Jobs is also credited with stating, "I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong."
Sleeping With the Enemy
It doesn't take too much imagination to understand how Android could be a knock-off of iOS. Apple and Google were buddies--allies against Microsoft in that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sort of way. Google's CEO--now Chairman--Eric Schmidt was a personal friend of Steve Jobs and sat on the Apple board of directors.
Seeing Google and Schmidt as partners against Microsoft--more importantly partners that didn't compete directly in key areas like mobile devices and operating systems--Apple and Jobs would have felt comfortable sharing details of iOS. Schmidt was in a position to get confidential information on the strategy and vision for the future of the iPhone and possibly even the embryonic concepts of the iPad.
I am not suggesting Schmidt set out to infiltrate Apple in an act of corporate espionage. It is possible, however, that Schmidt saw the genius of the Apple roadmap, but disagreed on certain aspects of implementation--like the "walled garden" approach of Apple--and decided to build a more open version of the same thing with Android.
Perhaps Schmidt "stole" from iOS without even being conscious of it.
An Inside Job
When it comes to Samsung, things get even stickier. Not only is Samsung using Android as the operating system in its flagship smartphones and tablets, and now portable music players, but Samsung devices are identical in form and design as well. The Samsung smartphones and tablets are virtually identical hardware to Apple mobile devices, running an operating system that seems to "borrow heavily" from Apple software concepts.
Like Schmidt with the iOS software, Samsung was in a somewhat unique position to know intimate details of the Apple hardware and architecture. Samsung is a key supplier of chips and displays for Apple smartphones and tablets, and may have had inside knowledge that it employed in developing its own competing devices.
Maybe the reason that Samsung is the number two maker of smartphones behind Apple, and the reason that the Samsung Galaxy Tabs seem to be the only Android tablet enjoying some sense of success in the market is because they so closely mirror the Apple iPhone and iPad.
No Surrender
There is some additional evidence to support the quotes from the Steve Jobs biography. Intellectual property and patent analyst Florian Mueller recently uncovered information from legal filings in the case between Apple and Samsung in Australia that demonstrate that Apple is not interested in collecting a licensing fee. It wants the infringing products banned, and its intellectual property protected, and it has no intention of selling it to Samsung, HTC, or anyone else for a few dollars per unit.
A blog post from Mueller outlines in detail some of the passages from testimony that show Apple's commitment to defending its patents. Mueller sums up with, "Apple is prepared to give Android device makers a license to "some lower level patents" but it wants to reserve various design elements and functionalities exclusively for iOS."
What If?
I am not a lawyer, nor am I a patent attorney. I am admittedly speculating.
In general, I agree that patent litigation is getting out of hand. It has become a standard operating procedure and part of the normal business model for hardware and software makers.
I don't agree with patent trolling, or using patent litigation as a strategic weapon to stifle competition. However, I do support the defense of patents and intellectual property that are legitimately being infringed upon. What if the Android OS and the devices it runs on actually infringe on patents held by Apple?
There is no denying that Android has been a tremendous success in smartphones. It has stumbled (repeatedly) out of the starting gate in tablets, but I imagine it will eventually make up ground and one day surpass Apple's iOS in that arena as well. But, it is possible that Android owes its success to concepts and technologies it does not have a legal right to make use of.
If a company came out with a new cola beverage that tasted just like Coca Cola, and its sales surpassed those of the iconic beverage giant we might put that company on a pedestal as a shining example of American ingenuity and commitment to excellence. But, if we later found out that the new cola only exists because its founders served on the board of Coca Cola and literally stole the secret formula for Coke, our opinion of that beverage and the success of that company would change dramatically.
The fact that Android is successful should not have any weight on determining whether it achieved that success by violating Apple patents. The impact an injunction against Android devices might have on the smartphone market should not be sufficient to excuse profiting from the theft of intellectual property.
It's easy to paint Apple as the bad guy and jump to the conclusion that its patent suits are just a sign of sour grapes over the success of Android. It seems apparent, though, that Steve Jobs was absolutely positive that Android is stolen and he had no intention of backing down or compromising with licensing agreements.
What if Steve Jobs is right?
Copyright (c) 2011
Apple's too full of themselves.
They aren't the originator of anything. They can't claim someone else stole from them because they have nothing under their belt that wasn't done before them.
Smartphones? Done before Apple did it.
Home computing? Done before Apple did it.
Digital media? Done before Apple did it.
Portable media players? Done before Apple did it.
Tablets? Done before Apple did it.
...only thing Apple deserves credit for is knowing how to pretty something up to be mainstreamed, professionally inflating figures to overbloat their successes, and knowing how to take advantage of masses of millions who don't research to learn anything. Without out-of-the-know and tech illiterate consumers, Apple would had fallen through long, LONG ago. Of course they want to kill Android; they're scared ****less... Android's claimed more marketshare per month for many, many consecutive month and single handed brought excellence to everything that iOS was mediocre at.
They can claim Android steals from iOS, but look at what iOS5 comes jam-packed with... tons of features that Android users have already had for ages.
If Steve Jobs is right, then mass scale theft is allegedly being commited. And there are two possible ways to confront it. Either the 200 million people who have bought Android devices are content with cooperating with mass scale theft... or it is not mass scale theft. While any sane person would agree to the second idea, that would make the Western economies collapse, as many product makers (Apple most prominently, but most market leaders would do the same) depend increasingly on patentable added-value.
thatsupnow said:
hey guys I came across this article on msn give it a read and leave your comments. ANDROID RULES!!!! Typical Apple bulls**t!!!
By Tony Bradley
What If Steve Jobs Is Right?
Apple has been engaged in heated legal battles around the world claiming that Android smartphones and tablets infringe on its patents. Android loyalists see the legal attacks as a desperate, oppressive move by Apple to stifle competition, but perhaps the success of Android is a function of the ways it "borrows" Apple intellectual property.
According to leaked excerpts from the Steve Jobs biography which will be officially released tomorrow, Jobs is quoted saying, "I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product. I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this."
Jobs is also credited with stating, "I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong."
Sleeping With the Enemy
It doesn't take too much imagination to understand how Android could be a knock-off of iOS. Apple and Google were buddies--allies against Microsoft in that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sort of way. Google's CEO--now Chairman--Eric Schmidt was a personal friend of Steve Jobs and sat on the Apple board of directors.
Seeing Google and Schmidt as partners against Microsoft--more importantly partners that didn't compete directly in key areas like mobile devices and operating systems--Apple and Jobs would have felt comfortable sharing details of iOS. Schmidt was in a position to get confidential information on the strategy and vision for the future of the iPhone and possibly even the embryonic concepts of the iPad.
I am not suggesting Schmidt set out to infiltrate Apple in an act of corporate espionage. It is possible, however, that Schmidt saw the genius of the Apple roadmap, but disagreed on certain aspects of implementation--like the "walled garden" approach of Apple--and decided to build a more open version of the same thing with Android.
Perhaps Schmidt "stole" from iOS without even being conscious of it.
An Inside Job
When it comes to Samsung, things get even stickier. Not only is Samsung using Android as the operating system in its flagship smartphones and tablets, and now portable music players, but Samsung devices are identical in form and design as well. The Samsung smartphones and tablets are virtually identical hardware to Apple mobile devices, running an operating system that seems to "borrow heavily" from Apple software concepts.
Like Schmidt with the iOS software, Samsung was in a somewhat unique position to know intimate details of the Apple hardware and architecture. Samsung is a key supplier of chips and displays for Apple smartphones and tablets, and may have had inside knowledge that it employed in developing its own competing devices.
Maybe the reason that Samsung is the number two maker of smartphones behind Apple, and the reason that the Samsung Galaxy Tabs seem to be the only Android tablet enjoying some sense of success in the market is because they so closely mirror the Apple iPhone and iPad.
No Surrender
There is some additional evidence to support the quotes from the Steve Jobs biography. Intellectual property and patent analyst Florian Mueller recently uncovered information from legal filings in the case between Apple and Samsung in Australia that demonstrate that Apple is not interested in collecting a licensing fee. It wants the infringing products banned, and its intellectual property protected, and it has no intention of selling it to Samsung, HTC, or anyone else for a few dollars per unit.
A blog post from Mueller outlines in detail some of the passages from testimony that show Apple's commitment to defending its patents. Mueller sums up with, "Apple is prepared to give Android device makers a license to "some lower level patents" but it wants to reserve various design elements and functionalities exclusively for iOS."
What If?
I am not a lawyer, nor am I a patent attorney. I am admittedly speculating.
In general, I agree that patent litigation is getting out of hand. It has become a standard operating procedure and part of the normal business model for hardware and software makers.
I don't agree with patent trolling, or using patent litigation as a strategic weapon to stifle competition. However, I do support the defense of patents and intellectual property that are legitimately being infringed upon. What if the Android OS and the devices it runs on actually infringe on patents held by Apple?
There is no denying that Android has been a tremendous success in smartphones. It has stumbled (repeatedly) out of the starting gate in tablets, but I imagine it will eventually make up ground and one day surpass Apple's iOS in that arena as well. But, it is possible that Android owes its success to concepts and technologies it does not have a legal right to make use of.
If a company came out with a new cola beverage that tasted just like Coca Cola, and its sales surpassed those of the iconic beverage giant we might put that company on a pedestal as a shining example of American ingenuity and commitment to excellence. But, if we later found out that the new cola only exists because its founders served on the board of Coca Cola and literally stole the secret formula for Coke, our opinion of that beverage and the success of that company would change dramatically.
The fact that Android is successful should not have any weight on determining whether it achieved that success by violating Apple patents. The impact an injunction against Android devices might have on the smartphone market should not be sufficient to excuse profiting from the theft of intellectual property.
It's easy to paint Apple as the bad guy and jump to the conclusion that its patent suits are just a sign of sour grapes over the success of Android. It seems apparent, though, that Steve Jobs was absolutely positive that Android is stolen and he had no intention of backing down or compromising with licensing agreements.
What if Steve Jobs is right?
Copyright (c) 2011
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tldr........
Android never felt like iOS, so I'm really not sure how it could be considered stolen..
Out of the gate Android's product had different intentions, to be a customizable, to be used on a wide range of hardware, and to be flexible.
Apple's iOS is not customizable, in fact it's set up the way a certain individual likes it, even if you don't like it like that. It's only used on specific hardware, and it's in no way flexible.
Steve Jobs patented the action of inertial scrolling, or scrolling that seemed more natural for touch. Great concept, not a great thing to patent, as it's really the only way it can feel natural to a human, and the idea of "I released it first so you're stealing" is entirely childish. Did Apple really expect Google to incorporate scroll bars instead?
This is the only thing I can really think of where Apple has any sort of ground, as I said before, Android has always felt like an entirely different concept. This whole "Android is a stolen product" thing just seems like a childish way to snuff out the biggest competitor.
It has worked with Samsung. The Galaxy Tab was basically wiped from important markets with its Germany ban.
Android never die
android will kill apple , symbian and f**en windows phone . i'm sure
I like competition. It makes smartphones get better. When android has no real competitors I guarantee you there'll not be update.
This article (and many others) continually neglects the fact that Android (as a company) was founded in 2003, at the same time Apple was partnered with Motorola to put iTunes on the ROKR. Google was not involved with Android till 2005, and at that point there is no way they built a complete OS from Google's acquisition to the Nov 2007 release of Android. They had been working on this thing from the beginning, and I'm sure there were some external influences, but to say that it was stolen is downright wrong. Heck if that was true you could say Apple stole from Palm as iOS functions much the same as my old Palm Pilot did. And Apple has been taking design elements from Android (like notifications) that could be construed in the same way.
Steve Jobs I'm sorry that you are gone, you were an innovator in many things, and a marketing genius and I have tremendous respect for you as a business man. However you served up some great Kool Aid, and your overall megalomaniac attitude towards this just shows that you think you can bully anyone out of your "ideas" when in truth they weren't even yours.
Rogue Leader said:
This article (and many others) continually neglects the fact that Android (as a company) was founded in 2003, at the same time Apple was partnered with Motorola to put iTunes on the ROKR. Google was not involved with Android till 2005, and at that point there is no way they built a complete OS from Google's acquisition to the Nov 2007 release of Android. They had been working on this thing from the beginning, and I'm sure there were some external influences, but to say that it was stolen is downright wrong. Heck if that was true you could say Apple stole from Palm as iOS functions much the same as my old Palm Pilot did. And Apple has been taking design elements from Android (like notifications) that could be construed in the same way.
Steve Jobs I'm sorry that you are gone, you were an innovator in many things, and a marketing genius and I have tremendous respect for you as a business man. However you served up some great Kool Aid, and your overall megalomaniac attitude towards this just shows that you think you can bully anyone out of your "ideas" when in truth they weren't even yours.
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I agree, Steve Jobs was pretty amazing but when something does not go his way (For example A product that is going to kick Apple's ass) then he will just start a lawsuite and cry over it. R.I.P Though.
Steve Jobs made a fortune off of borrowed ideas. He was simply good at marketing ideas that were previously overlooked. The only truly innovative thing he ever "invented" was the Apple II, and that was largely thanks to Wozniak. He recognized good ideas when he saw them, but to say that he invented any of it is ridiculous.
He stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as he could, and before he even knew what he had, he patented it, and packaged it, and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now *pounds fists* he's selling it.
Too soon...
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iliketrains said:
Too soon...
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pfft! Nothing is too soon I could see if you knew him personally ya but chances are pretty good you don't
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thatsupnow said:
pfft! Nothing is too soon I could see if you knew him personally ya but chances are pretty good you don't
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Unless he's using the Kevin Bacon thingy theory on Steve Jobs, then he might, lol
Dousan said:
Unless he's using the Kevin Bacon thingy theory on Steve Jobs, then he might, lol
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Aahaha that's funny!
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http://www.bgr.com/2012/06/25/google-tries-to-block-u-s-shipments-of-apples-iphone-over-3g-patents/
Google tries to block U.S. shipments of Apple’s iPhone and iPad over 3G patents [updated]
Google is seeking to block U.S. imports of Apple’s iPhone and iPad over 3G patents held by Motorola Mobility,*Bloomberg*is reporting.UPDATE:*Bloomberg*is theorizing that due to a review of a previous ruling, Apple could face a ban on importing iPhones and iPads, but Google is not filing an injunction at this time.
By Susan Decker and William McQuillenJune 25 (Bloomberg) — A U.S. trade agency said it willreview a judge’s findings that Apple Inc.’s iPhone and iPad tablet computer infringe a patent owned by Google Inc.’s Motorola Mobility unit, in a case that could lead to imports of the devices being banned. The U.S. International Trade Commission said it will review ITC Judge Thomas Pender’s findings that Apple was violating one*Motorola Mobility patent. The commission is scheduled to issue a*final decision on Aug. 24, and has the power to block devices*made in Asia from entering the U.S. The iPhone, iPad and related*devices generate 78 percent of Apple’s revenue.*The commission said it would review aspects of all four*Motorola Mobility patents in the case, including the one found*to be infringed. The agency also will consider whether it should*be issuing import bans on products found to infringe patents*related to industry standards. Notice of the commission’s decision was posted today on the agency’s website.*The iPhone generated $22 billion in sales last quarter for*Apple, or 58 percent of the company’s total revenue. It was the*best-selling smartphone in the U.S., with 29 percent of the*market, while Motorola Mobility had 10 percent, researcher NPD*Group said May 2.*Apple’s iPad dominates the tablet computer market, with 72*percent of the market, according to researcher DisplaySearch.*The iPad and related products brought in $9.2 billion for Apple,*almost 20 percent of its revenue.*Motorola Mobility filed the complaint in October 2010 as a*pre-emptive strike after Apple made public statements that*phones running on Google’s Android operating system were copying*features of the iPhone. The dispute is part of a broader global*battle for supremacy in the smartphone and tablet computer*markets that also pits Apple against Android-device*manufacturers Samsung Electronics Co. and HTC Corp.*Android is the most popular platform for smartphones, with*61 percent of the market, NPD said.*Apple is appealing its loss in the patent-infringement*complaint it filed at the ITC against Libertyville, Illinois-*based Motorola Mobility, and a federal judge in Chicago last*week threw out patent claims Apple and Motorola Mobility had*filed against each other. Google bought Motorola Mobility in*part to gain access to its trove of 17,000 patents, many on*phone technology.*Cupertino, California-based Apple also has filed a*complaint against Motorola Mobility at the European Union,*accusing the handset manufacturer of misusing patents that*relate to industry standards.*The patent that Pender said Apple infringed relates to the*industry standard for 3G technology used by most phones, and*Motorola Mobility has argued that Apple infringes the patent byfollowing the standard.*Apple argued that, since Motorola Mobility helped establish*the standard, it shouldn’t be allowed to block use of patent*inventions related to the standard. It filed a lawsuit accusing*Motorola Mobility of breaching its contractual obligation to*license any standard-essential patents on fair and reasonableterms.*The U.S. Federal Trade Commission, members of Congress and*Microsoft Corp. have filed papers supporting Apple’s argument*that import bans should not be imposed on such patents. Verizon*Wireless, the largest U.S. mobile-phone service provider, and*No. 2 AT&T Inc. filed papers making similar arguments.*Verizon Wireless, jointly owned by Verizon Communications*Inc. and Vodafone Group Plc, also said an import ban on the*iPhone “would hamper technological development, strand critical*infrastructure investment and cost American jobs.”*The patent that was found to be infringed covers a way to*eliminate noise so signals are clearer. A Wi-Fi patent is*invalid because it doesn’t cover a new invention, the judge*said. No infringement was found on two other patents, for a way*the server tracks which applications are available, and a sensorto determine the proximity of a person’s head to the phone so it*doesn’t accidentally hang up or dial unwanted numbers.*The case against Apple is In the Matter of Wireless*Communication Devices, Portable Music and Data Processing*Devices, Computers and Components Thereof, 337-745, and Apple’s*case against Motorola Mobility is In the Matter of Mobile*Devices and Related Software, 337-750, both U.S. InternationalTrade.
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Sweet!
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that should get them to back off of samsung lol
Not likely to happen. But there is hope. And it'd be funny as hell if it does.
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this is ridiculous from both parties. they're just acting like a bunch of babies at this point. I was reading on fortune magazine over the weekend that judges are getting sick of this crap by both camps and are gonna be getting more likely to throw these cases out with prejudice. the previous judge that threw out the case of apple v motorola recently sets a pretty nice precedent for telling this two children to go play nice.
dardani89 said:
this is ridiculous from both parties. they're just acting like a bunch of babies at this point. I was reading on fortune magazine over the weekend that judges are getting sick of this crap by both camps and are gonna be getting more likely to throw these cases out with prejudice. the previous judge that threw out the case of apple v motorola recently sets a pretty nice precedent for telling this two children to go play nice.
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I completely agree with your viewpoint here, and i don't like to point fingers, but in this case Apple is at fault. Should Apple had let things be, and chosen to compete on advertising, features, and other commercial traits, this would not be happening. Instead, Apple has been filing one patent action after another, first holding up the evo 4g and replenishments of the htc one x, then achieving the recent injunction against the galaxy nexus. This forced Google's hand, as we can see above, to play the same dirty game in order to achieve leverage to halt Apple's anti-competitive behavior. Apple has to come to terms with the fact that real competition exists in the marketplace and that winning the fight has be accomplished on innovation, price, differentiation and other business factors outside of the courtroom.
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IOS 6 is suppose to have features that have been exclusive to android like face unlock. So if Apple got an induction for the slide to unlock feature why couldn't Google get an induction against apple if they do release that feature in the next os.
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"The U.S. Federal Trade Commission, members of Congress and Microsoft Corp. have filed papers supporting Apple’s argument that import bans should not be imposed on such patents."
huh? ROFL
dardani89 said:
this is ridiculous from both parties. they're just acting like a bunch of babies at this point. I was reading on fortune magazine over the weekend that judges are getting sick of this crap by both camps and are gonna be getting more likely to throw these cases out with prejudice. the previous judge that threw out the case of apple v motorola recently sets a pretty nice precedent for telling this two children to go play nice.
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+1
---------- Post added at 08:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 AM ----------
Random thought
I wonder how many patents there are on (apply to) every aspect of our Siii? Don't they patent line of code?
dardani89 said:
this is ridiculous from both parties. they're just acting like a bunch of babies at this point. I was reading on fortune magazine over the weekend that judges are getting sick of this crap by both camps and are gonna be getting more likely to throw these cases out with prejudice. the previous judge that threw out the case of apple v motorola recently sets a pretty nice precedent for telling this two children to go play nice.
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To be fair, Apple launched the first nuke in this mutually assured destruction with the Galaxy Nexus ban.
Not going to happen for a few reasons:
1. The patent in dispute is based on a 3G standard that Motorola is letting many other companies use. This isn't like Apple's design patent suits. It is a standard, so all they likely need to do is work out a licensing deal.
2. There would be way too much backlash and public disapproval of such a decision.
3. Apple has way too many backers: Verizon, AT&T, Microsoft, the FTC, and Congress to name a few. That is A LOT of support.
4. Things usually tend to fall Apple's way. Whether it's bias, really good lawyers, or the result of being the most valuable company in the world, they seem to get their way more than they should.
dardani89 said:
this is ridiculous from both parties. they're just acting like a bunch of babies at this point. I was reading on fortune magazine over the weekend that judges are getting sick of this crap by both camps and are gonna be getting more likely to throw these cases out with prejudice. the previous judge that threw out the case of apple v motorola recently sets a pretty nice precedent for telling this two children to go play nice.
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Whatever dude. I think Google, Samsung and Motorola have been pretty frickin patient with Apple and their psychopathic former leader Steve Jobs (RIH). Especially considering the Apple you know today was all started from stealing from Xerox and then stealing from a whole industry only to turn around and claim it as their own.
I say we file a class action lawsuit against the patent offices who are giving Apple all these bull**** patents. Does the patent office really not give a damn who the technology belongs to? I really would like to see Apple come out with SOMETHING original.
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They have been doing this for over a year, there's an apple fanboy I used to go to high school with on my Facebook and rants all the time about how Apple is taking action against Android for their "thievery" I lol'd then put him in his place by stating lock screen usage and notification drawer, which have been android for years!!! I pointed every little flaw in his arguement only for him to delete his status he made and remove from his friends. That's Apple fans for you. This will not end and will have little effect to any of us in the long run.
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Sadly it won't happen
Here's why: Apple is the golden child of the good ol' Us of ****ing A, and the entire system is corrupt. How much would you like to bet that the judge who placed the GNexus ban is getting some sort of payout or campaign contribution. Apple will win because apple has the deepest pockets. They have a great legal team, and have the best marketing team on the planet. I personally see them as a threat to all technology, as I fear they're going to use patents to kill innovation.
I wish it would end on both sides, the patent war that is.
Patents are fine, but you can't say someone is stealing from you, when they take your idea and throw in some new ideas/inventions. You patented something specific. You didn't patent something square and is a phone.
What is annoying to me is for a couple of years now the courts have ruled for Apple. But now when people start suing Apple, their reply is "im sick of this."
Why couldn't you have said that from the beginning? To me it seems that Apple has all the control with it's lawsuits.
Well, Apple is the US company being judged by US courts, at least vs Samsung. Let's see what happens with Google.
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Paging Dr B said:
Here's why: Apple is the golden child of the good ol' Us of ****ing A, and the entire system is corrupt. How much would you like to bet that the judge who placed the GNexus ban is getting some sort of payout or campaign contribution. Apple will win because apple has the deepest pockets. They have a great legal team, and have the best marketing team on the planet. I personally see them as a threat to all technology, as I fear they're going to use patents to kill innovation.
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I'm fairly certain judge Koh or whatever her name is got bribed, the case she's handling had till recently, based on her comments not been going Apple's way, including not allowing a ban on the SGS3 to go through, and then suddenly she changes her mind? Not likely at all, the law has been generally against Apple from day one, nothing has changed law wise for this sudden turn around.
AND her turnaround comes way too close after Judge Posner's ruling that injunction's are not to be used as punishment and to stop competition
BGR is the worst place to get Android/Google news. It is run by a bunch of Apple fan boys, so of course they are going to over speculate the situation. Go to a reliable source like Engadget or Phonedog.
z0phi3l said:
I'm fairly certain judge Koh or whatever her name is got bribed, the case she's handling had till recently, based on her comments not been going Apple's way, including not allowing a ban on the SGS3 to go through, and then suddenly she changes her mind? Not likely at all, the law has been generally against Apple from day one, nothing has changed law wise for this sudden turn around.
AND her turnaround comes way too close after Judge Posner's ruling that injunction's are not to be used as punishment and to stop competition
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she didn't change her mind because she was bribed. she changed her mind because initially she didn't find apples argument for unified search to be reasonable to warrant a patent so she threw out the case but not without prejudice. then apple appealed the case to a higher court. the appeals court found apples argument to be justified in the unified search patent and Judge Koh was ordered by the federal appeals court to retake the case and find a decision. she was not allowed to revisit the issue if the patent was legitimate or not, the higher court had made that decision for her. so she had to work on what she was given, and under the assumptions that she was ordered to accept from the higher court, lead to the conclusion of the injunctions. Judges make bad decisions and good decisions, they're just human beings. Ultimately though they make decisions based on the law and orders from above, not what is right or wrong. The problem here is not the Judges, it's a combination of Samsung's God awful legal team, Apples abuse of the patent system, the failure of the patent system in technology and our austerity mindset with regards to budget cuts for the patent office.
its a bit retarded that apple has to stop any phone that will be better than theirs
What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.
Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.
CSharpHeaven said:
What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
Which "other entities" are you referring to?
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
You have no idea what Motorola Mobility's budget is, nor what the corporate strategy is as they and Google move forward.
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
Your predictions are based on personal assumptions and a complete lack of knowledge regarding corporate acquisitions imo, and the resulting restructuring that occurs, and nothing to do with the article you have put up a link to. Every major organization which is bought out by another, usually bigger, organization goes through major restructuring, layoffs, plant/site closures, and ultimately alignment with the corporate strategies of the purchasing body. Customer service and support always suffers through this teething period. I predict Motorola Mobility won't even exist in 5 years, let alone design and manufacture devices. They will either be stripped and sold off, or swallowed whole and devoured by Google, but then again, my predictions are also assumptions.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.
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Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.
CaelanT said:
Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.
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Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile.
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded.
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did.
I'm so glad Motorola split. I love Motorola hardware.
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Slymayer said:
Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.
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I don't think many of us were expecting a Motorola nexus device.
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CSharpHeaven said:
Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance. So please explain where you get this theory of passing on financial losses from.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile. I'm not protesting your thread, and it makes no difference to me how much you have written about Android. I could write about knitting all day,but that doesn't mean I know how to "stitch one".
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan. We all know corporate big wigs get massive payouts. That's a given in any large corporation. Where do you get that Motorola couldn't afford to hire contractors from? I'm betting Motorola/Google have very good experience in budgeting. Companies do not grow as big as them without strategic budgeting, and a ruthless business sense. New technology is all about time to market............beating your competitor to release. It's never been about consumers, and this has nothing to do with budgets in the sense of lack of budget, but rather huge ROIC numbers of 25+% being required by greedy shareholders who will cancel NPI projects in the blink of an eye if they do not meet target costs of 60%-62% profit margins.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded. I have not argued this point with regards to the Chinese government, but rather the 5 year part. I see it that they will not exist in 5 years because if they aren't making phones they have nothing to exist for other than development, and they will be wholly integrated into Google by then. If Google doesn't want anyone to know, then how do you know?
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did. Seems like your whole post was pointed at budgetary cuts, R&D activity cost cutting, and Moto Mobility not making phones in 5 years. Maybe I was incorrect in reading between the lines and seeing reduced budgets, job losses, and a 5 year life span. In any event, what you said does not reflect the article you linked to other than R&D spending cuts.
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Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!
CaelanT said:
Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!
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Back in March 2012 I started a thread with the following title: "Android a Fragmented, Differentiated, and Misrepresented Platform". I completed the first six parts taking me over 100 hours of work before I removed them which I have already provided the reason. I still have a copy of the original works. As you can guess by now, it would take a lot of effort just to answer your first question. I might complete the articles or use them as part of other future articles one day.
When others investing money in developing hardware for Android then Google has nothing to lose should market take a 360 degree on Android for instance.
You are assured bragging about something is not my style but I will go to the end of the world for what I believe in. Several parts of the articles actually covered the technical side of Android rather than the business model of it.
Sorry I can't make any useful comment about your fourth paragraph. I made a point and you turned into a very complicated matter in particular in the beginning of your paragraph.
I was actually being very careful to write Motorola Mobility wouldn't (most likely but not surely) make hardware such as smartphones in fives years time when it requires constant software support. The reason was Motorola Mobility develops other products such as Bluetooth headphones, TV Set Box, and etc.
It is my fault not citing from the article in the first place which was the following;
"Other impacted territories are Asia and India, with cuts in R&D spending across various locations in Chicago, Sunnyvale, and Beijing."
In my opinion the intention of Google to cut spending in R&D is far more important than what was being reported which was Google has realised even scaling down is going cost the company a fortune.
This is what wikipedia has to say about R&D
"In one model, the primary function of an R&D group is to develop new products; in the other model, the primary function of an R&D group is to discover and create new knowledge about scientific and technological topics for the purpose of uncovering and enabling development of valuable new products, processes, and services." -- Wikipedia
Even if Motorola Mobility uses both models that were described in above description one can say (as I did) Motorola Mobility or rather Google planned (might still be on) to stop or reduce developing new products or innovating new products/services/technology (second model). Obviously when R&D is scaled down then all the forces across all business processes also need to be scaled down otherwise, the business is simply will waste money.
Motorola Mobility stock share should lose values based on this report alone because clearly Motorola Mobility no longer wishes to be proactive in the very competitive market. From consumers point of view this should be a further warning that things are not promising at all.
Enjoy your long holiday and see you around on XDA soon.
I remember the article you wrote because I read it. Why you had to remove it I have no idea, and I am disappointed that you did.
<edit> Went back and looked through that thread. And here I thought I could be a royal arse at times! XDA can be a very rough place sometimes.
That being said, I manage R&D activities in a very large global company which is 85% focused on R&D and NPI, with very little manufacturing occurring other than with 3rd party vendors in low cost countries.
All arguments aside, I was pushing for an explanation of your comments which did not seem to relate much to the article you linked, or the thread title. Your last post explains your reasoning behind your comments much better.
Cheers!
Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860
tomh235 said:
Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860
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Thank you for your inputs. I have to disagree with your point on pure Android experience which you must meant Nexus phones. I'm glad you mentioned that since I had few things to say about it.
As it has been reported Google is expanding its Nexus program to allow multiple manufacturers to release their own Nexus version. A careful examination would reveal a brand in Android ecosystem only would be distinguishable by differentiation i.e. Home Launchers and features. Many Android users would agree that they often miss features when move on to a pure Android experience.
Now here is my take on the Nexus program. Not many people noted that the Nexus program has brought a huge financial reward to the manufacturers who participated in it by actually establishing themselves in Android market generating more revenue from selling their other product lines. Samsung is very good example, while their Nexus range did well but SGII, GNote (probably equal to GNexus), and SGIII did far better. HTC only has itself to blame for not taking advantage of the opportunity and even though the following year of their Nexus release they did well but they went down the hill by releasing handsets that were aggressively designed for profits only i.e. the Sensation range.
The same pattern can also be observed in Google Store where developers participate in Google's promotional programs where they reduce their prices for a period of time but end up with significant revenue increase and jumping ranking position in application listings.
Now that this marketing method has been proven to work with Android consumers it would be feasible for other manufacturers to join the Nexus program, at same time. I have my reservations about the impact of more than two manufacturers participating in the Nexus program.
What concerns me the most about Nexus program is its hidden agenda. For one, Google has been trying to make Cloud services as a vital entity in their mobile platform. The obsession with cloud services is a worrying factor especially when all parties (i.e., Google, Manufacturers, and Network Operators) involved wanting your data to be stored on their servers. Nexus phones share one feature in common and that is the ommission of the SD-Card port. The LG Optimus Nexus has been said not to have the SD-Card port either. Please remember, if corporates fail to predict the consumers behaviour correctly then they would attempt to introduce that behaviour to the consumers eventually.
I know Google enough (observations) to know they don't rush into things for not being noticed. While they have good alliances with their business partners but they can seek other agendas at same time. In the world of politics it is known as "Parallel Politics". Google is the most involved tech company in the world with global politic activities. I'm willing to say, their involvement is almost in the same level as the USA government in many terms.
In my opinion the lack of upgrades would be in Google's benefits since they own and run the Nexus program itself and in our case (Atrix and Proton owners) they own Motorola anyway. Motorola's Patents was a good reasoning point, for general public, to acquire Motorola but I have my feelings it was more than the patents, keeping my eyes on this anyway.
Sorry, I never meant to write this much but now that I did I would like also to expose the $100 offer program from Motorola. A publicity stunt that would look Motorola to come across considerate when it is hardly going to cost them anything in fact. Here are my reasons;
- Upset Motorola users wouldn't want anything to do with Motorola anymore therefore the $100 is worthless
- Many users have claimed they can get more money by selling their phones. The $100 offer therefore is worthless.
- Considering the above point Motorola in fact is ripping Motorola users twice over. Remember you have to give up your phone to quality for $100
- Virtually all Network Operators have recycling-program where they buy back phones. Therefore Motorola did not offer anything new to the ripped off customers
- A cheap attempt by Motorola to keep consumers on their brand to shift more new phones, in numbers, for future financial reports
Update:
Droid-life just reported the following; "Server Logs Hint at Motorola Nexus Tablet and Phone?"
Source: http://www.droid-life.com/2012/10/05/server-logs-hint-at-motorola-nexus-tablet-and-phone/
Busy time for Nexus Program this year where potentially five manufacturers (Motorola, Asus, HTC, Samsung, LG) will have Nexus devices out before the year is out.