It's a strong title... I know. Before you carry on reading take a deep breath and keep an open mind.
I've been playing around with a few cameras, for the best camera for photo and video work.
I've had the chance to trial the Galaxy S5, Galaxy Note 3, LG G2 (4k mod), Sony Z1 and of course the Z2.
Now in my testing I have observed a few things and tested them to conclude the following:
The Z1 and Z2 share the same sensor and lens
The Z2 outputs less compression to increase the quality (larger file size)
The sensor themselves are amazing, able to capture huge dynamic range and have impressive low light capabilities.
The glass in front of the Exmor sensors are just crap, the so called 'G Lens'.
The lens causes a lot of softness/blur... only the centre of the image is sufficently sharp.
I will proceed in the next post with evidence.
oc_masta said:
I will proceed in the next post with evidence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless you have removed the lens cover from the housing and have taken photos to prove your theory that it's "crap" and then removed the lens and showed how it causes "softness/blur" I'm calling this out as a trolling exercise. I've made multiple comparison photos with my old HTC One X and my girlfriends Lumia 1020 and I can find nothing wrong with the camera. It compares very favourably with both.
Evidence A:
Here are 2 photos of some pebble dashing on a wall, which is great for checking sharpness.
Below are crops of the centre part photos taken with a LG G2 and Sony Z2.
The first is a LG G2 @ 13mp, the second is the Sony Z2 @ 20mp.
We can clearly see the G2 is sharp all around while Z2 starts to blur very quickly off centre in spots around the image. The lens isn't doing this sensor the justice it deserves.
The raw captures are available below for you to pixel peep yourselves.
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Evidence B:
Post #57 by Progosu.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2744006&page=6
Evidence C:
4k video comparison with G2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itr7VWBXu2k
Evidence D:
Reviewer @ 13:00 mentions issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7tQ5n32no8
I also think expectations need to be realistic. We're probably still in the range of 3 to 5 years before the cameras on these phones can approach the quality of DSLR or mirrorless units (hopefully we're even closer to when they can output raw files). Even then, unless someone comes up with something rather clever, we won't be seeing any decent optical zoom capabilities or the capacity for interchangeable lenses. But for most of us and for most circumstances, these phones do just fine. I can't imagine a professional photographer for Nat Geo (or any press org) is going to rely on their phone as their primary tool. The thousands of pictures that I've taken over the last 5+ years with a half dozen different phones wouldn't even exist, except for a few dozen maybe, if I didn't have my phone available and ready to use. Indeed I can do more and do better with my Canon, but other than road trip style vacations, it simply doesn't get used.
Slightly OT - Why ANY of these manufacturers put some type of protective sliding cover over the lens? What would that add to the cost of manufacture? A nickle?
THE LG G2
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm115/oc_masta/g2_a_zps0ceaefeb.jpg
THE SONY Z2
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm115/oc_masta/z2_a_zpse786db49.jpg
Don't get me wrong, the sensor is amazing. I don't understand why Sony would develop such a great sensor and pair it with such a bad lens.
I mean if Samsung and LG can incorporate super sharp lenses, Sony DEFINITELY can.
Sony have built a whole industry and reputation on camera equipment, I'm just disappointed they didn't use a sharper lens.
LG G2 is over-sharpened IMHO.. Likewise your "evidence" is also your opinion. Were both of the phones mounted in a tripod? Was OIS on the G2? There are so many variables that you can't account for this amounts to nothing but your opinion. So thanks for your opinion. Sheesh..
bombdog said:
LG G2 is over-sharpened IMHO.. Likewise your "evidence" is also your opinion. Were both of the phones mounted in a tripod? Was OIS on the G2? There are so many variables that you can't account for this amounts to nothing but your opinion. So thanks for your opinion. Sheesh..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both were stabilized to negate the effects of OIS.
I'm just presenting my test and conclusion, it isn't opinion once proven but feel free to believe whatever you like. I'm just presenting the facts and your presenting your opinion.
I love the Z2 regardless, everything is quality, including the sensor which is truly amazing, but the glass is letting it down.
oc_masta said:
Evidence A:
Here are 2 photos of some pebble dashing on a wall, which is great for checking sharpness.
Below are crops of the centre part photos taken with a LG G2 and Sony Z2.
The first is a LG G2 @ 13mp, the second is the Sony Z2 @ 20mp.
We can clearly see the G2 is sharp all around while Z2 starts to blur very quickly off centre in spots around the image. The lens isn't doing this sensor the justice it deserves at all.
The wholes images are available below for you to pixel peep yourselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've just come from a G2 to a Z2 and I can tell you that I'd take the Z2 every day of the week as my main shooter. G2's shutter speed is horrendous (yes I tried all the mods). Pictures of anything moving invariably comes out as a blurry mess.
oc_masta said:
Both were stabilized to negate the effects of OIS.
I'm just presenting my test and conclusion, it isn't opinion once proven but feel free to believe whatever you like. I'm just presenting the facts and your presenting your opinion.
I love the Z2 regardless, everything is quality, including the sensor which is truly amazing, but the glass is letting it down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, but two photos of a pebble dashed wall is not evidence that Sony's G Lens is crap. On my Z2 there are absolutely no issues with soft focus, it is pinsharp in macro and when taking photos of complex landscapes. By all means prove your theory by removing the lens glass from your G2 & Z2 and compare the quality with microscope. Until then, this is an opinion piece. Nothing more.
bombdog said:
I'm sorry, but two photos of a pebble dashed wall is not evidence that Sony's G Lens is crap. On my Z2 there are absolutely no issues with soft focus, it is pinsharp in macro and when taking photos of complex landscapes. By all means prove your theory by removing the lens glass from your G2 & Z2 and compare the quality with microscope. Until then, this is an opinion piece. Nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um I'm sorry nobody tests lenses and cameras by your method. Your still stating your opinion.
I am trialling every camera I can without bias but I am liking the Z2 build feel and overall package alot more than any other phone.
oc_masta said:
Um I'm sorry nobody tests lenses and cameras by your method. Your still stating your opinion.
I am trialling every camera I can without bias but I am liking the Z2 build feel and overall package alot more than any other phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to talk about this anymore after this post as you don't seem to understand. There could be plenty of reasons your Z2 isn't focusing properly (software/hardware/contamination etc.), but you have stated that it's because Sony have used "crap" glass. The onus is on you to provide proof about this and you can't.
Why not get a few Z2's together and see if the issue is the same. No one else has gone out of their way to say "Why the Z2 camera sucks" and then said "probably the crap glass". Do you make lenses? What is the best type of glass to use? Enlighten us..
Well I'm heavily involved in the visual effects industry and photography. I know glass problems like most photographers do, evidently you do not.
All lenses are imperfect by nature and display certain issues. Softness is one and causes a loss of resolution.
That's why you tend to hear people rant how important a lens is over the camera itself. Not that I share that sentiment entirely, but this test did help me appreciate that a bit more.
The reason I say glass is, because the centre when zoomed is sharp (focussed), but further out it gets soft in certain areas. Like I had already stated.
Believe whatever you want and dispute it with your own test.
oc_masta said:
Well I'm heavily involved in the visual effects industry and photography. I know glass problems like most photographers do, evidently you do not.
All lenses are imperfect by nature and display certain issues. Softness is one and causes a loss of resolution.
That's why you tend to hear people rant how important a lens is over the camera itself. Not that I share that sentiment entirely, but this test did help me appreciate that a bit more.
The reason I say glass is, because the centre when zoomed is sharp (focussed), but further out it gets soft in certain areas. Like I had already stated.
Believe whatever you want and dispute it with your own test.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you think there is a possibility that your Z2 may have a defective lens?
I think what bombdog is trying to say (albeit a bit harsh) is that you need to have multiple test samples before jumping to conclusions. For instance, just because your Z2 had a bad lens does not mean all lens are bad.
If I were to do this test, I'd take a handful of XZ2, a G2, and an S5 then take shots of different scenery. If a majority of the Z2 shows a lack in sharpness then we can assume that the Z2 could have a bad lens.
By
oc_masta said:
Well I'm heavily involved in the visual effects industry and photography. I know glass problems like most photographers do, evidently you do not.
All lenses are imperfect by nature and display certain issues. Softness is one and causes a loss of resolution.
That's why you tend to hear people rant how important a lens is over the camera itself. Not that I share that sentiment entirely, but this test did help me appreciate that a bit more.
The reason I say glass is, because the centre when zoomed is sharp (focussed), but further out it gets soft in certain areas. Like I had already stated.
Believe whatever you want and dispute it with your own test.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I thibk other's mean is that maybe your device's glass cover is bad. Sure that may be Sony's fault or it could be bad handling from your part but I have a hard time believing that all the Z1/Z2 glass covers are as bad as yours. I for example have some pictures without blur on the edges and that for me makes this test nothing more than a test on an eventually faulty device(faulty glass cover maybe)
Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
HeartUnderBlade said:
Do you think there is a possibility that your Z2 may have a defective lens?
I think what bombdog is trying to say (albeit a bit harsh) is that you need to have multiple test samples before jumping to conclusions. For instance, just because your Z2 had a bad lens does not mean all lens are bad.
If I were to do this test, I'd take a handful of XZ2, a G2, and an S5 then take shots of different scenery. If a majority of the Z2 shows a lack in sharpness then we can assume that the Z2 could have a bad lens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a Z1 which exhibits the exact same issue you see, and they share the same camera. The only difference between the photos is an increase in filesize of the Z2 in comparison with the Z1 at the same 20mp resolution. This usually means less compression. A neat trick by Sony to increase photo quality with the same hardware.
The lens is inside the camera which consists of several pieces of glass layered on top of each other (polished, shaped and distorted). Lenses are very hard to make.
The outside is just a flat piece of glass to protect the REAL lens.
Look guys,
For the purists its an issue yes, for the general happy snappers, it is not. But I hope you would have liked to hear the facts instead of just being ignorant to them.
Its a great camera apart from the glass inside which could be better.
p.s. sharpness/detail isn't everything, this sensor itself beats anything else on offer in a phone and can only compare to the Lumia 1020 (which is my opinion).
I am very pleased with its dynamic range and ability to able to show detail in shadows and highlights (especially useful in 4k video).
oc_masta said:
Look guys,
For the purists its an issue yes, for the general happy snappers, it is not. But I hope you would have liked to hear the facts instead of just being ignorant to them.
Its a great camera apart from the glass inside which could be better.
p.s. sharpness/detail isn't everything, this sensor itself beats anything else on offer in a phone and can only compare to the Lumia 1020 (which is my opinion).
I am very pleased with its dynamic range and ability to able to show detail in shadows and highlights (especially useful in 4k video).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, I didn't come to take shots at you. I was just trying to interpret what Bombdog was saying so that you two could stop bickering like a married couple. No need to say I'm "ignorant" to the "facts".
I know exactly what you mean but you two don't seem to understand each other. Bombdog suggests you get more Z2 samples. On the other hand, you're going around saying these are facts when, unfortunately, they are not true facts. Bombdog is mostly right in that they are opinions (except the way he came off seemed very aggressive). Giving one sample and throwing around self-proclaimed certifications about being highly involved in photography does not suddenly make it a "fact." What you have here is a HYPOTHESIS not a fact.
Sorry, I did not mean to come off as being too aggressive but I came here to hear a discussion and if I'm going to get shots fired at me just because I happened to walk in at the wrong time then perhaps there wasn't going to be a discussion in the first place.
oc_masta said:
Look guys,
For the purists its an issue yes, for the general happy snappers, it is not. But I hope you would have liked to hear the facts instead of just being ignorant to them.
Its a great camera apart from the glass inside which could be better.
p.s. sharpness/detail isn't everything, this sensor itself beats anything else on offer in a phone and can only compare to the Lumia 1020 (which is my opinion).
I am very pleased with its dynamic range and ability to able to show detail in shadows and highlights (especially useful in 4k video).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you man...fully understand what you are talking about, but just don't keep trying to convince the fanboys that the Z2 has some issues because you're not getting to any result! They are too ignorant...
P.S: Z2 has a lousy mic, Z2 overheats and I also have proof!!! ...and I'm not a ****ing troll!!!
Devils Advocate
BTW if I came across as aggressive apologies..
Related
After posting the camera comparison between old and .257 firmware I went out and did some more testing. This is one (actually, one of the better) shot done indoors at ISO 250, manual, slight +EV, 8MP 4:3.
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I have boxed the three main complaints with this image:
green: heavy artifacts at color bridges, this is likely still the same issue of oversharpening and next-pixel balancing getting into each others' faces
red: in flat color areas it introduces huge noise
orange: fine detail such as faces is washed out and unusably so
Three things are different here: I'd used the phone for a while and it had gotten a little warmer than it'd been when I took the outdoors photos. In general do I notice a distinct reduction in image quality as the phone gets warmer, I took the same picture twice, sandwiching a ten second video (and we know how hot the phone gets from even short video). After the "your phone is too hot" message went away I took a second picture and it looked like crap. It's indoors, ISO 250 instead of 50 ... and it's a very color and detail intensive image.
But the two girls at the back still look fit
deleted
gioiellino said:
+1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When it comes to perving on a 16 and 17 year old cooks' apprentice I never thought XDA would be the place to go.
jluster said:
When it comes to perving on a 16 and 17 year old cooks' apprentice I never thought XDA would be the place to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
be quiet, but only joking here, i delete the post...
for the photo i have your problem too, and im searching other camera app, to try if is a hardware o software problem.
in app section i post a new camera app, very good, if you want try this.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2499518
jluster said:
After posting the camera comparison between old and .257 firmware I went out and did some more testing. This is one (actually, one of the better) shot done indoors at ISO 250, manual, slight +EV, 8MP 4:3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a tricky shot to get because of the back lighted window. Ideally a fill flash situation but not an option in your case given the apparent distance. It isn't surprising to see the problem areas you noted tend to cluster around the window. So how do you find the detail in the rest of the shot where the food is for example, its hard to say anything more because this is a downsampled image with no orignal provided.
green: heavy artifacts at color bridges, this is likely still the same issue of oversharpening and next-pixel balancing getting into each others' faces
red: in flat color areas it introduces huge noise
orange: fine detail such as faces is washed out and unusably so
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you use spot metering here ? Where you metered off will influence how the detail appears. Its properly exposed from what i can see. Nice shot
jluster said:
Three things are different here: I'd used the phone for a while and it had gotten a little warmer than it'd been when I took the outdoors photos. In general do I notice a distinct reduction in image quality as the phone gets warmer, I took the same picture twice, sandwiching a ten second video (and we know how hot the phone gets from even short video). After the "your phone is too hot" message went away I took a second picture and it looked like crap. It's indoors, ISO 250 instead of 50 ... and it's a very color and detail intensive image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen mixed reports about heating when using the camera. Some say it does not heat up too much whereas other say it does. had chatted with someone about this and was told even videoing for ten minutes did not heat it up too much. Too much is relative here with other devices i suppose.
One Twelve said:
Did you use spot metering here ? Where you metered off will influence how the detail appears. Its properly exposed from what i can see. Nice shot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why I avoid making statements about exposure. What I am attempting (and I think I am being successful) to show is the introduction of fringing, halos, artifacts, oversharpening noise, and next-pixel supersample blur. This is by the way not a downsample, it's a 1:1 100% crop (as, I believe, any camera comparison should be. Worse are those passing off AutoAwesome and AutoEnhance pictures as "in camera," but that's another rant for another time.
I had a chance to chitchat with some Sony engineers on Saturday and they seem to be reluctantly aware (and considering they're dogfooding 4.3 right now, I think we'll see little improvement in that arena) of the next-pixel issues and artifacts.
Let me make this clear: I don't think this is bad camera mojo. It's acceptable (5th after iPhone, Nokia, and Samsung Galaxy S4 isn't all that bad) but given the amazing hardware we have it makes me sad that we don't get better.
Also you did not mention whether this is a 20MP or 8MP photo.
I wondered whether there was any advantage to taking a 20MP shot and oversampling on a pc to a lower resolution. Whether that may produce a better photo that in-phone as pc has more processing power and also more time to work and produce a better quality image. I understand that the oversampling is a chip level implementation so its quick whether any advantage can be gained doing this in post is unclear to me atm.
The thing about exposure is if there is enough light or the sensor was more sensitive then would those halos, artifacts etc be less. You got those artifacts because perceived light was lower than ideal. I might take a worse shot than you did with that picture where it could be even more pronounced. If there was a way to lock exposure like on other cameras do we get a better shot or not.
The answer which you do not want to hear is i would try to avoid that window during framing the shot. Its too hard to fix without a fill flash.
As for capabilities of Z1, i look forward and hope to see manual shutter speed control. If you compare with procamera on lumia that's the only parameter missing in the sony manual interface.
jluster said:
After posting the camera comparison between old and .257 firmware I went out and did some more testing. This is one (actually, one of the better) shot done indoors at ISO 250, manual, slight +EV, 8MP 4:3.
I have boxed the three main complaints with this image:
green: heavy artifacts at color bridges, this is likely still the same issue of oversharpening and next-pixel balancing getting into each others' faces
red: in flat color areas it introduces huge noise
orange: fine detail such as faces is washed out and unusably so
Three things are different here: I'd used the phone for a while and it had gotten a little warmer than it'd been when I took the outdoors photos. In general do I notice a distinct reduction in image quality as the phone gets warmer, I took the same picture twice, sandwiching a ten second video (and we know how hot the phone gets from even short video). After the "your phone is too hot" message went away I took a second picture and it looked like crap. It's indoors, ISO 250 instead of 50 ... and it's a very color and detail intensive image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had exactly these problems on the new .257 firmware so I changed back to the older one and what a difference the older one I have found to take much better photo's then the newer .257. I know a lot of people will disagree and say the 257 is much better but on my z1 I have found it to be the complete opposite
One Twelve said:
Also you did not mention whether this is a 20MP or 8MP photo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I do: "ISO 250, manual, slight +EV, 8MP 4:3"
The thing about exposure is if there is enough light or the sensor was more sensitive then would those halos, artifacts etc be less. You got those artifacts because perceived light was lower than ideal. I might take a worse shot than you did with that picture where it could be even more pronounced. If there was a way to lock exposure like on other cameras do we get a better shot or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other thing about exposure is, however, that the best way to establish the (non-scientific) usability of a camera is to aim it around and take pictures of things the way people would, then look at them and ask yourself: would that make me/them happy? Heck, go to Walmart and print some glossies, whatever, find out if you can make photos you'd share.
As for capabilities of Z1, i look forward and hope to see manual shutter speed control. If you compare with procamera on lumia that's the only parameter missing in the sony manual interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lumia's HDR stitching is more accurate and it doesn't fall off along the edges in luminescence. Where the Z1 has it beat is in color retention in lower lights, though.
jluster said:
Yes, I do: "ISO 250, manual, slight +EV, 8MP 4:3"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My mistake
jluster said:
The other thing about exposure is, however, that the best way to establish the (non-scientific) usability of a camera is to aim it around and take pictures of things the way people would, then look at them and ask yourself: would that make me/them happy? Heck, go to Walmart and print some glossies, whatever, find out if you can make photos you'd share.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would like you to comment on the other areas of the photo. Since you did not mention it do we assume the three areas are the only ones you were not satisfied with. For me the cluster around the window indicates a backlighting problem. underexposed subjects etc. Though i have to say you got a very well exposed photo there. So as to make me think this is the best that one can expect under the circumstances.
Will you tell us how you took that photo, back light scn mode or spot metering ?
Here is another old vs new fw camera comparison:
http://www.soyacincau.com/2013/10/2...a-performance-compared-after-software-update/
In this particular photo, I don't see any improvements:
Cheers,
Miki
Here's one comparison with the c6903
.534
.257
DIfference is subtle, slightly cleaner in the .257
miki_69 said:
Here is another old vs new fw camera comparison:
http://www.soyacincau.com/2013/10/2...a-performance-compared-after-software-update/
In this particular photo, I don't see any improvements:
Cheers,
Miki
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not this... but unfocus area
logzz said:
I had exactly these problems on the new .257 firmware so I changed back to the older one and what a difference the older one I have found to take much better photo's then the newer .257. I know a lot of people will disagree and say the 257 is much better but on my z1 I have found it to be the complete opposite
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought I was the only one.
Kept reading everyone say the new firmware was a big improvement for the camera but every photo I took looked grainy. I took a photo of 2 of my boys yesterday in low light. Had -ev and it was the first 'decent' picture I had taken since I upgraded the firmware.
Then I realised that one of my kids was sharp/clear, but my other boy sitting beside him was out of focus.
Maybe he moved slightly and because of the longer shutter speed it caused the problem?
Although that's still only one good pic out of maybe 50.
It's not a big deal, I'll just downgrade the firmware after work as before the new firmware every photo was great.
Low light as well as sunny conditions the camera was a boss.
Another thing, my viewing angles are perfect.
Why do some Z1's look **** when viewed on a slight angle AND benefit from a newer firmware, and others look no different when looking at the phone almost flat AND suffer after a firmware upgrade?
When I check out my pics/videos from a mad angle the screen is bright as ****. I've seen footage where the phone is tilted and the screen looks ****. Definitely not the case with my phone.
Have they all got different parts in them?
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
LJE said:
I thought I was the only one.
Kept reading everyone say the new firmware was a big improvement for the camera but every photo I took looked grainy. I took a photo of 2 of my boys yesterday in low light. Had -ev and it was the first 'decent' picture I had taken since I upgraded the firmware.
Then I realised that one of my kids was sharp/clear, but my other boy sitting beside him was out of focus.
Maybe he moved slightly and because of the longer shutter speed it caused the problem?
Although that's still only one good pic out of maybe 50.
It's not a big deal, I'll just downgrade the firmware after work as before the new firmware every photo was great.
Low light as well as sunny conditions the camera was a boss.
Another thing, my viewing angles are perfect.
Why do some Z1's look **** when viewed on a slight angle AND benefit from a newer firmware, and others look no different when looking at the phone almost flat AND suffer after a firmware upgrade?
When I check out my pics/videos from a mad angle the screen is bright as ****. I've seen footage where the phone is tilted and the screen looks ****. Definitely not the case with my phone.
Have they all got different parts in them?
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am starting to wonder if they do all have different parts I can confirm there is a difference in screens as I bought two z1 phones just for compare and I found one had a better screen with more contrast and saturated colours. And the one with the better screen had a slightly better camera too. But this new firmware really pissed me off for me it was a huge step backwards the camera I found to be a lot worse as I have said earlier. The battery life on the new firmware I found to be pathetic and also the screen colour I found to be worse. The only thing it did fix was the screen going all black but back light staying on. How ever I got random reboots twice on the new firmware.
Now on the other hand my friend bought a Samsung note 3 and the camera on that performs far better then the xperia z1 also. Im starting to wonder weather I should change to a note 3 as im starting to feel im just wasting my time with sony. The software engineers they have working on the firmware updates need to be shot. How hard can it really be to make a good firmware???? What is sony doing???? I suspect they will never get it right for everyone because of different parts being used all the time.
logzz said:
I am starting to wonder if they do all have different parts I can confirm there is a difference in screens as I bought two z1 phones just for compare and I found one had a better screen with more contrast and saturated colours. And the one with the better screen had a slightly better camera too. But this new firmware really pissed me off for me it was a huge step backwards the camera I found to be a lot worse as I have said earlier. The battery life on the new firmware I found to be pathetic and also the screen colour I found to be worse. The only thing it did fix was the screen going all black but back light staying on. How ever I got random reboots twice on the new firmware.
Now on the other hand my friend bought a Samsung note 3 and the camera on that performs far better then the xperia z1 also. Im starting to wonder weather I should change to a note 3 as im starting to feel im just wasting my time with sony. The software engineers they have working on the firmware updates need to be shot. How hard can it really be to make a good firmware???? What is sony doing???? I suspect they will never get it right for everyone because of different parts being used all the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bought 2 Z1's so you could compare the screen?
Really?
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
LJE said:
You bought 2 Z1's so you could compare the screen?
Really?
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes and they both had a very similar serial numbers but the screens were different, I have sold the other one now tho and kept the better one.
logzz said:
yes and they both had a very similar serial numbers but the screens were different, I have sold the other one now tho and kept the better one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never had two phones of the same model with screens that look identical side by side. I'm sure the same applies to other displays and also TVs, which is why anyone in graphic design will pay to have monitors calibrated properly - and when you have video walls, these also need to be calibrated so one panel doesn't stand out.
But on their own, it's hard to tell which screen is 'right' or not.
I love my Xperia Z1. I have nothing to complain about aside from speaker and viewing angles which could be better, still it's not bad and improves on the Z. And the viewing angle issue seems to be less visible when you play a video. The only thing the camera is lacking is optical image stabilization. The focus is sometimes hit and more miss too. But overall, pictures are stunning for a phone (even in low light) but maybe I don't set the bar high enough. I've had the old and new firmware, was already happy with the old one and now I am happy with the new one. I quickly compared pictures with an iPhone 5 and it's easily on par.
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First off, I wouldn't have gotten the Z1 if I didn't permanently brick my Xperia TX, which was doing an adequate job. I never planned to replace it until I renew my contract in 6 months, by then I would decide what would be available that's worth purchasing...my service provider has a ok to mediocre line up (Galaxy S4, HTC Desire, Motorola X, Nexus 5, Xperia SP), but none of them were interesting to keep.
Long story short, I tried to install a 3rd party ROM for the TX, only to have the screen flip upside down, later screwed up to the point where even the Sony logo does not even appear. It would constantly be stuck in Flash mode and it wouldn't even let you flash the stock firmware. Since the TX is not a Canadian phone, heck, it wouldn't even matter.
So I walked into the Sony Store and got myself a white Xperia Z1 C6906. Sales rep tried to sell me the magnetic charging dock, but I'm not too sure whether it's worth it. I looked at ebay and there seems to be a magnetic charging cable.
Build quality:
Since I had a chance to use a Samsung Galaxy Note 3 for a moment, I can say that the Z1 has a more "solid" feeling to it. I wouldn't say that it's impressive that the Note 3 manages to weigh around the same as the smaller Z1, despite having the bigger screen and slightly bigger battery. The plastic/leather?/aluminium? was the key to save weight. I'm sure if they used the same materials as the Z1, it would be around 185-200g.
Since the Z1 is built like an iPhone, using "premium" materials, there's a certain catch to it. Fragile.
When I got my iPhone 4, the first thing I got was a case to prevent permanent damage to its fragile product. This is the problem with the Z1 as well. Using glass as the front and back could end up from being one of the most beautiful phones into shattered glass. There is a shatter-proof sheet, but that doesn't mean anything. At the end of the day, you would still go out and buy a case, cover it up, end of discussion. You can't really see what the phone looks like anymore.
Now compared to last year's flagship, the T/TX, this is a huge jump. The plastic isn't bad, but plastic is plastic.
Button layout has been revamped, it certainly fits better with your fingers, where it should be naturally. However, I prefer the camera button to be bigger.
Hardware
Apples and oranges.
The T/TX had 1GB of RAM powered by an outdated Snapdragon S4. It performed about the same, if not, better than the Galaxy S3, but those were just benchmarks and they were already a good 6 months too late because the S4 was just announced...adding salt to the wound, the Z was also announced later on.
Compared to my TX, the Z1 just snaps through everything. Pictures load quick, Facebook doesn't lag to refresh news feed, none or barely any stutter in the animations, camera operates smooth, Walkman doesn't stutter it's audio, it just FLOWS.
LED notification is more noticeable than that puny dot on the corner on the T/TX.
The screen I got turns out to be the VA panel, ...why am I not surprised? But I don't have anything to complain as it still looks great, and the bad viewing angles will prevent other people from taking a peek at what I'm doing. Jumping from a 4.6 inch to a 5 inch with more pixels, everything looks sharper. I can't say much about the colour since I think it looks about the same in comparison.
Everyone says built-in battery is a problem, I personally find it to be the only Samsung fanboy argument as the importance of a removable battery is really insignificant. My TX has removable battery, but I never really had to take it out.
The only problem that I have is sound.
No rumoured S-Master MX DAC. I have a Walkman Z, and it sounds tremendous when paired with the Sony XBA-3 along with DSEE, Clear Stereo, and Clear Phase turned on, no equalizer adjustments needed.
For the Z1, volume is weak, bass too dull, vocals too tinny. Turning on ClearAudio+ and Dynamic Normalizer makes it worse. Clear Stereo is ok to use. Other than that, equalizer adjustment is highly recommended to fix this.
As for the speakers, I'm leaning more on the "I don't like it" side. Like the iPhone, the speaker grille for this is an absolute aesthetic b.s.
It isn't loud, nor is it very clear. It sounds slightly muffled, and feels like it came out of 320p YouTube when that's clearly not the case when it's played on headphones. At least they got the speaker placement correct...
Software:
Everything pretty much looks the same minus the camera interface. I've always like the Timescape UI better than any other ones out there so no complaints there. Camera quick-launch makes that funny music when turned on, I personally don't like it. They didn't do it with the T/TX, so why would they add it on now? Please don't say it's to warn the user that your camera function is turned on...at least make it like iPhone's auto turn off if no action has been done. I don't know if Android or Sony has such a function, but I know there is a fix here on xda to get rid of that.
Of course, that's up to whether the user wants to root or not.
As for the X-Reality engine, I would personally leave it off for the following reasons:
Over sharpened video - this seems to occur on some videos, it might be due to the codec or it might be due to its resolution. Leaving it off results in a natural video. Turning the engine on results in some funny white outlines popping everywhere including subtitle text that's just way too harsh to watch. However, playing the factory demo clips like The Smurfs 2 trailer shows no harsh sharpening.
Deceiving images - Everything might look great through that saturated and sharpen filter, but once you put it on the PC, it looks nothing like it anyways. Just like the TX's Bravia Engine, it doesn't improve on anything. If you like this sort of stuff, by all means, leave it on.
Camera
I haven't tested the camera too thoroughly to see how much of an improvement over an Exmor R sensor. The interface and functionality is much better than the TX thanks to better hardware. Picture file size says a lot, and 20 megapixels with only an average 5mb file size tells me there's not much detail being captured. Just like the TX's 13 megapixels, an average file size of 2mb is really disappointing when a 5 megapixel iPhone 4 can churn out pretty much the same thing, if not, better.
Low light has improved drastically thanks to the bigger sensor, but noise reduction seems too harsh or non-existent at times.
The hardware is there, but the software is certainly not making up for it.
Overall
From a hardware standpoint, most of the stuff is great. CPU/GPU is up-to-date, battery size is comparable to the giant Note 3 (not sure about usage though), you get the idea. The stuff about the screen not being PLS or IPS, well, if you're lucky, then consider it a bonus. The VA panel does more than enough if you stare right at it, colour reproduction might not be as good as IPS/PLS, but VA is considered a close contender.
From a software standpoint, if you have been using the previous generation T/TX, nothing should be unexpected as there are no drastic changes that require you to read the manual or anything. Since this phone is still relatively new, its also unsurprising that 3rd party development lacks compared to the insta-popular S4 and Note 3 where there are just pages of stuff to go through. If you don't mod, it's already pretty decent at its stock form.
Price is probably the only killer. $699 Canadian is steep. Yes, Rogers sells it for $599, but I want white and I don't use Bell or Telus, so suck it.
Contract price goes for much less...but it's contract price, ain't nobody got time for that.
With that money, you're open to a lot of top-end options like the Note 3, G2, even the Nexus 5 which is half the price of this. With CES just around the corner, prices will start dropping soon.
Nonetheless, it's still an excellent phone. Now I'm off to buy the Spigen GLAS.tR SLIM from Japan
It feels fragile, but I assure its not... I have seen a review where it was dropped from 5ft 3 times in succession and the glass didn't even chip... well yes it did chip a little, 1 mm on the corner, hardly noticeable... never see any other phone with stand this... all Note 3, G2 Iphone 5s all broken screen on the first drop...
But z1 was the only phone not working after the drop.... Sooo it's a pretty brick now.
Sent from my C5503 using Tapatalk
Morlock O said:
It feels fragile, but I assure its not... I have seen a review where it was dropped from 5ft 3 times in succession and the glass didn't even chip... well yes it did chip a little, 1 mm on the corner, hardly noticeable... never see any other phone with stand this... all Note 3, G2 Iphone 5s all broken screen on the first drop...
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Click to collapse
shteren said:
But z1 was the only phone not working after the drop.... Sooo it's a pretty brick now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, the androidauthority test is why I'm more worried about this phone. I know why Samsung uses plastic, it absorbs impact better :laugh:
shteren said:
But z1 was the only phone not working after the drop.... Sooo it's a pretty brick now.
Sent from my C5503 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually those guys are idiots, they didn't test the device before and after every drop (like they always do on samsungs and iphones). so we all don't know when did it actually stop working...
I personally saw one drop from 5 ft and its still working, just a little scratches here and there...
Dropped mine / fell out of my pocket > 10 times now. Some scratches in the alumunium frame, some in the protective stock anti shatter layer. Overall I'm VERY impressed how resilient it is for its looks. On the other hand, it has to win the award for the most slippery phone to date yet. Carrying it in cloth trouser pockets equals phone on the ground when you stand up fast.
1337rice said:
Lol, the androidauthority test is why I'm more worried about this phone. I know why Samsung uses plastic, it absorbs impact better :laugh:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol all samsung has cracked screen after one drop... they dont claim warranty on cracked screen... they do claim warranty on devices that does not turn on... pick your poison...
Lol, use some thin rubber case to make it less slippery
Sent from my C5503 using Tapatalk
shteren said:
Lol, use some thin rubber case to make it less slippery
Sent from my C5503 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haven't bought a sleek looking phone to strap an ugly wrapper around it. So... Livin' on the edge
1337rice said:
As for the X-Reality engine, I would personally leave it off for the following reasons:
Over sharpened video - this seems to occur on some videos, it might be due to the codec or it might be due to its resolution. Leaving it off results in a natural video. Turning the engine on results in some funny white outlines popping everywhere including subtitle text that's just way too harsh to watch. However, playing the factory demo clips like The Smurfs 2 trailer shows no harsh sharpening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me tell you that I had the same problem as well. Videos were extra sharp with jagged edges when XR was turned on and it wasn't visible on the pre-loaded videos. Like you said, turning it off would make it better but the colors won't be vivid as when XR is on. So I became frustrated and checked with a demo piece available at the store. The demo had the same issue too. I thought it was a problem with all the devices. Then I replaced mine due to pinch to zoom issues with my Z1. When I received the new one, it DIDN'T have the sharpness problem as before. So I was thinking that it could have been a panel or hardware problem. My second device went under a replacement as well. The third device I received didn't have the problem too. So I guess it affects some of the devices and your's has been affected. The Z1 I have now is very good when watching videos with XR turned on and colors pop out actually I request you to check your's with other devices at the store or with your friends if they have one.
DeKubus said:
Carrying it in cloth trouser pockets equals phone on the ground when you stand up fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
huh ?
I tend to drop things out of my pocket sitting down not standing up ?
if your knee is higher than your pocket, things will fall out.
gire.prasad said:
Let me tell you that I had the same problem as well. Videos were extra sharp with jagged edges when XR was turned on and it wasn't visible on the pre-loaded videos. Like you said, turning it off would make it better but the colors won't be vivid as when XR is on. So I became frustrated and checked with a demo piece available at the store. The demo had the same issue too. I thought it was a problem with all the devices. Then I replaced mine due to pinch to zoom issues with my Z1. When I received the new one, it DIDN'T have the sharpness problem as before. So I was thinking that it could have been a panel or hardware problem. My second device went under a replacement as well. The third device I received didn't have the problem too. So I guess it affects some of the devices and your's has been affected. The Z1 I have now is very good when watching videos with XR turned on and colors pop out actually I request you to check your's with other devices at the store or with your friends if they have one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually tried it again and it seems that the X-Reality over-sharpens 720p video while 1080p seems perfectly fine. I played a 1080p .mkv with XR turned on and it was completely fine.
One Twelve said:
huh ?
I tend to drop things out of my pocket sitting down not standing up ?
if your knee is higher than your pocket, things will fall out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but if I move around while sitting the phone "slides" to the edge of my pocket. Then the little tilt backwards to gain momentum before standing up sends it flying. Damned shallow pockets!
gire.prasad said:
Let me tell you that I had the same problem as well. Videos were extra sharp with jagged edges when XR was turned on and it wasn't visible on the pre-loaded videos. Like you said, turning it off would make it better but the colors won't be vivid as when XR is on. So I became frustrated and checked with a demo piece available at the store. The demo had the same issue too. I thought it was a problem with all the devices. Then I replaced mine due to pinch to zoom issues with my Z1. When I received the new one, it DIDN'T have the sharpness problem as before. So I was thinking that it could have been a panel or hardware problem. My second device went under a replacement as well. The third device I received didn't have the problem too. So I guess it affects some of the devices and your's has been affected. The Z1 I have now is very good when watching videos with XR turned on and colors pop out actually I request you to check your's with other devices at the store or with your friends if they have one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine had that problem too, but after installing the first update Sony released, X-reality has been a pleasure to to use, it makes 480p videos look very close to HD and the colors really pop out.
Sent from my Xperia Z1 using Tapatalk
Jiyeon90 said:
Mine had that problem too, but after installing the first update Sony released, X-reality has been a pleasure to to use, it makes 480p videos look very close to HD and the colors really pop out.
Sent from my Xperia Z1 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does X reality work with other video players? Or only the sony app?
Sent from my C6906 using Tapatalk
negrobembon said:
Does X reality work with other video players? Or only the sony app?
Sent from my C6906 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know, it works with MX Player
1337rice said:
As far as I know, it works with MX Player
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
Sent from my C6906 using Tapatalk
I can confirm it working with the excellent "bs player" Btw what update are you talking abour? Xr also oversharpens 720p in my phone and its anoying, I have. 257 fw
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
negrobembon said:
Does X reality work with other video players? Or only the sony app?
Sent from my C6906 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works on YouTube and with MX player too but first you have to go to decoder and tick all the H/W+ options and untick all the S/F boxes, in some video sites similar to youtube you can choose MX to be the video player as well.
Sent from my Xperia Z1 using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 PM ----------
shteren said:
I can confirm it working with the excellent "bs player" Btw what update are you talking abour? Xr also oversharpens 720p in my phone and its anoying, I have. 257 fw
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me x-reality only do things better, here's an example of a 720p video showing the difference
You can clearly see that the second pic is a lot sharper especially if you look at the text and colors are more vivid too. I don't know if you see that as something negative but for me it definitely is an improvement over the original video.
Well at some scenes perticular details get oversharpened and look awfull...
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk
I don't have to tell you how Android phones suffer on camera SW side, but while the Z1 improved on the Z's problematic image quality, it introduced unexpected issues in optics. The G-lens is a multi-element plastic lens system, and something inside the design and arrangement causes certain areas of the image to lose sharpness, Z1 owners know this. Unfortunately, while Sony's sure to work on image quality improvements, the optics of the Z2 are unchanged, here is a picture analysis.
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This is a downsampled Z2 image taken at 8MP (Auto Mode), because it's reduced to 40% of original pixel size, it should be super sharp (and not over-sharpened) at ALL AREAS, cause if this photo is not sharp, how the full 20MP result would look?
http://www.xataka.com/galeria/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/2/
1) But anyways, details in the middle are quite good, highly detailed, although you can spot quite a sharpening, but tolerable at this resolution (100% crop)
2) Moving just a bit away from the middle however, and look at how the buildings, trees, construction site are all of the sudden soft and lack of accurate focus
3) The left middle side of the lens is worst, this image would be just as sharp as in the middle on a say Samesong Note 3, LG Pro 2, iPhone 5S, Lumia 1520 whatever. Remind you this is still a crop from an 8MPs image, not 20, full size would have the same amount of detail spread over 2,5 larger area!
4) The left bottom corner is... relatively sharp again? Huh?
Right now Sony has a monumental mountain to climb to make their SW for their great sensor work reliable, cause the Z1 is not, it's not too high on detail either, and is badly over-processed (sharpening, noise reduction). But even if they get it right, optical issues won't go away, something is just wrong with the G-lens that is not addressed on the Z2, which is a pity.
Really? Pixel peeping on a cameraphone?! Something like this could have easily been a fingerprint or smudge on only half of the front lens cover.
Literally every camera in existance ranging from a phone camera to a high end DSLR has this 'problem'. The corners of the image sensor is always the softest. Its not a Sony issue.
Relax man. Had a Z1 myself and the lens rather soft on the corner at times, probably due to the f2.3 apeture.
But the blur on the middle right, the guy was taking aerial photo in behind the glass of a helicopter, so blur might present due to the helicopter panel.
kantk20111 said:
Literally every camera in existance ranging from a phone camera to a high end DSLR has this 'problem'. The corners of the image sensor is always the softest. Its not a Sony issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is. There is no softness around on a say iPhone 5S or Galaxy S4 Exmor RS, if the subject is sharp, the image is sharp all around. It is an undeniably crippling feature of the Z1, and apparently the Z2, and anyone with any sense of photography can spot these issues, see some Sony forums. I'm expecting a quality discussion here not "ur crazy dude, no camera is perfect homes".
BoneXDA said:
Yes it is. There is no softness around on a say iPhone 5S or Galaxy S4 Exmor RS, if the subject is sharp, the image is sharp all around. It is an undeniably crippling feature of the Z1, and apparently the Z2, and anyone with any sense of photography can spot these issues, see some Sony forums. I'm expecting a quality discussion here not "ur crazy dude, no camera is perfect homes".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What discussion is there to have? Do you want people to agree with you and reply 'ohhh yuhh z1 camera sux' or 'sony u suck lolol'? I stated my opinion, and it's true. I'm a pretty avid photographer, I have a Nikon D7100 and have a decent eye for photography. My D7100 with the 18-105 lens has the same problems at large aperture. Granted it's not as bad as the Z1's, but the softness is still there. Large aperture lenses have softness on the corners. I guarantee you will find the same result with the 5S or S4.
I could show you pictures that came out perfectly with my Z1 as well with none of the problems you mentioned. There are a ton of reasons why you could have got that blurriness in the middle. The camera lens could've been smudged, they might've got a bad phone, or, most probably, the guy was taking pictures out of a helicopter which was moving and might have had smudges on the window?
Let's take a look at another picture in this set:http://img.xataka.com/galleries/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/DSC_0046.JPG
Overall, it's a bit soft, but the random blurriness you mentioned is not present. Detail is sharp at the center and fuzzy at the edges, just like any camera, but the random blurs are not there. Why? Because the picture you showed was an abnormality.
This plagued my old Z also, thought it was a smudge or lens had become scuffed but this was not the case. I thought it was an isolated problem but this is a big concern as im eyeing the Z2 (obviously)
kantk20111 said:
What discussion is there to have? Do you want people to agree with you and reply 'ohhh yuhh z1 camera sux' or 'sony u suck lolol'? I stated my opinion, and it's true. I'm a pretty avid photographer, I have a Nikon D7100 and have a decent eye for photography. My D7100 with the 18-105 lens has the same problems at large aperture. Granted it's not as bad as the Z1's, but the softness is still there. Large aperture lenses have softness on the corners. I guarantee you will find the same result with the 5S or S4.
I could show you pictures that came out perfectly with my Z1 as well with none of the problems you mentioned. There are a ton of reasons why you could have got that blurriness in the middle. The camera lens could've been smudged, they might've got a bad phone, or, most probably, the guy was taking pictures out of a helicopter which was moving and might have had smudges on the window?
Let's take a look at another picture in this set:http://img.xataka.com/galleries/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/DSC_0046.JPG
Overall, it's a bit soft, but the random blurriness you mentioned is not present. Detail is sharp at the center and fuzzy at the edges, just like any camera, but the random blurs are not there. Why? Because the picture you showed was an abnormality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm also a photographer, and even when using L glass (yea I have a Canon, screw you Nikon...just kidding) there will be abnormalities. The z1 takes great photos. The blur is no big deal. It is just a phone. Now if my $2,000+ lens gave me these problems...that's another story lol
Sent from my LG Optimus G using xda app-developers app
kantk20111 said:
What discussion is there to have? Do you want people to agree with you and reply 'ohhh yuhh z1 camera sux' or 'sony u suck lolol'?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please stop trolling my thread. This is a camera lens discussion thread. Don't reply to this.
liliha said:
This plagued my old Z also, thought it was a smudge or lens had become scuffed but this was not the case. I thought it was an isolated problem but this is a big concern as im eyeing the Z2 (obviously)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for a reasonable response, Sony won't address the issue if ppl. play down the lens problems. Interestingly zoom lenses suffer from similar issues, but phones have fixed focal length, so there should be no softness all over the place. Unfortunately there is, I'll be looking to add full-size photos, maybe a few Z1s.
BoneXDA said:
Please stop trolling my thread. This is a camera lens discussion thread. Don't reply to this.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...did you seriously ignore the rest of my post because of that? I wrote that to reply directly to what you said.
BoneXDA said:
"ur crazy dude, no camera is perfect homes".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't have a response to my actual argument, don't reply, and don't call me a troll.
kantk20111 said:
Literally every camera in existance ranging from a phone camera to a high end DSLR has this 'problem'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope.
The OP sample is terrible even for a phone. As for DSLRs, even the cheapest ones with a kit lens will give you amazing results compare to this.
Relayers said:
Nope.
The OP sample is terrible even for a phone. As for DSLRs, even the cheapest ones with a kit lens will give you amazing results compare to this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, obviously, but the corners/edges of an image are the softest part of the image, that's a fact. The level of softness depends on the quality of the lens, which is why it doesn't make much of a difference in DSLRs. OP's sample is very poor but probably not a problem due to the lens.
kantk20111 said:
Well, obviously, but the corners/edges of an image are the softest part of the image, that's a fact. The level of softness depends on the quality of the lens, which is why it doesn't make much of a difference in DSLRs. OP's sample is very poor but probably not a problem due to the lens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its almost certainly a lens issue, maybe not all G-lenses are equal, but having read through extensive Z1 & Z1 Compact reviews, quite a few spot those soft areas. It's hard to see the software causing it, cause why are other parts sharper? But since there's a lot of noise filtering and sharpening going on, and manual and superior auto results can differ quite a bit, I can't rule that out.
BoneXDA said:
Its almost certainly a lens issue, maybe not all G-lenses are equal, but having read through extensive Z1 & Z1 Compact reviews, quite a few spot those soft areas. It's hard to see the software causing it, cause why are other parts sharper? But since there's a lot of noise filtering and sharpening going on, and manual and superior auto results can differ quite a bit, I can't rule that out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I took these two pictures seconds from each other, about 10 minutes ago. The blurrier one with the soft spots you mentioned was taken with Superior Auto. The sharper and brighter one was taken in manual, ISO 400 and +0.7 EV. Other than the slightly overblown whites in the manual one due to the increased EV, it's much sharper and has none of the soft spots you mentioned. I should mention that this was in reasonable low light, taken with the blinds down.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. There is nothing wrong with the G lens. The softness you mention is because of the software. Superior auto causes extreme compression as well as being very conservative with ISO levels leading to a fuzzy image. I have more examples comparing SA to manual and the trend remains. The Z1 hardware is more than capable. It is let down by a very poor auto mode.
Can you share the full-size photos?
BoneXDA said:
Can you share the full-size photos?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://speedyshare.com/v8u7y/DSC-0086.JPG
http://speedyshare.com/nqQhB/DSC-0087.JPG
kantk20111 said:
http://speedyshare.com/v8u7y/DSC-0086.JPG
http://speedyshare.com/nqQhB/DSC-0087.JPG
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't analyze too much there, superior out choose much higher ISO (2000 vs manual's 400), of course it's softer. But the subject on my shot (city) is properly focused and sharp... in some parts, soft in others. So if you have full 20MP photos with high background details, I'd have a look at it. So far, the Z2 shows sharpness inconsistencies, will post other photos if I find them.
BoneXDA said:
Can't analyze too much there, superior out choose much higher ISO (2000 vs manual's 400), of course it's softer. But the subject on my shot (city) is properly focused and sharp... in some parts, soft in others. So if you have full 20MP photos with high background details, I'd have a look at it. So far, the Z2 shows sharpness inconsistencies, will post other photos if I find them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for that, I can say Z2's SW is still not in its stable mode, but there are parts in my mind fighting that the Z2's camera SW is the same with the current Z1's camera SW. But well, this is in 4.4 KK so we never know if Sony has done again improvements (or maybe disruptions) with the camera SW.
Expect camera SW to be the same once Z1 got its 4.4 KK. Dunno but SD801 on Z2 has dual ISP chips compared to single ones on 800 on Z1, also dunno if it is also contributing to that BIONZ for mobile "fake" better image processing.
PS: I have a Z1 and it's really great to be with Sony. Just expecting them to topple again on cameraphone making, just like what they did to K750i and K800i way way back its time.
Thank you for raising concern about the camera here.. Gonna stay and absorbing the discussion now...
While I am at it, will this lens problem affect video results as well?
Because Z2 now support 4k video recording right? Just asking because I think 4K is the future and it's nice to have a future-proof documentations..
opensourcenoob said:
Thank you for raising concern about the camera here.. Gonna stay and absorbing the discussion now...
While I am at it, will this lens problem affect video results as well?
Because Z2 now support 4k video recording right? Just asking because I think 4K is the future and it's nice to have a future-proof documentations..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There isn't any concern
Besides my Turbo I also have a company provided IPhone5s so I decided to do a real world side by side comparison. Here is the setting: my truck is parked about 250' away from stop sign, I held each phone with both hands resting on the steering wheel. Both phones have all settings on AUTO the crossroad has a speed limit of 50 mph and no stoplights nearby so I am fairly certain the vehicles crossing in front of me are doing no less than 50 mph. My purpose is to catch the vehicles as close to the center of intersection as I possibly can, I took the Turbo pictures first and made every possible effort to capture the best picture possible with both phones. Observation: the shutter SOUND on the Iphone was instant, shutter SOUND on Turbo had an estimated full second delay. Look at the pictures and draw your own conclusions.
smokie11 said:
Besides my Turbo I also have a company provided IPhone5s so I decided to do a real world side by side comparison. Here is the setting: my truck is parked about 250' away from stop sign, I held each phone with both hands resting on the steering wheel. Both phones have all settings on AUTO the crossroad has a speed limit of 50 mph and no stoplights nearby so I am fairly certain the vehicles crossing in front of me are doing no less than 50 mph. My purpose is to catch the vehicles as close to the center of intersection as I possibly can, I took the Turbo pictures first and made every possible effort to capture the best picture possible with both phones. Observation: the shutter SOUND on the Iphone was instant, shutter SOUND on Turbo had an estimated full second delay. Look at the pictures and draw your own conclusions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So while the shutter sound was delayed, it did not matter?
The Droid got the job done while the iPhone did not.
Which pics are which?
aviwdoowks said:
So while the shutter sound was delayed, it did not matter?
The Droid got the job done while the iPhone did not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Turbo has what looks like a simulated gray shutter closing when you take picture, when that happened the picture was captured, the sound followed the visual cue.
wadamean said:
Which pics are which?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The first 3 are the Turbo, the last 3 Iphone, if you hold the mouse over the pictures it identifies them, they can also be enlarged.
Ummm... Congrats?
It seems like you had HDR on with the Turbo
zed011 said:
It seems like you had HDR on with the Turbo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He used default settings.
HDR on auto is one of them.
I have read here and other places what a dreadful camera the Turbo has, specially the inability to focus on moving objects and how slow it was to capture an image. I didn't want to dismiss the many stated comments about how awful the camera is. I also did not want to just simply say how I feel about the camera, to me it's a great camera for a phone. I did a heads up comparison between a camera praised often for being superior to the Turbo's and the Turbo camera consistently focused clearly on a fast moving object, the IPhone failed to catch a single vehicle in the focal area. I don't expect to sway the one's that hate the camera one bit, I simply presented evidence, proof of what the Turbo camera CAN do; not an opinion. WE all like here to look at pictures to prove a point... I gave you pictures.
iPhone is sharper
theineffablebob said:
iPhone is sharper
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah that missing detail is really crisp.
Its so sharp I cannot see the cars!
I like the camera on the turbo, can't understand how anyone could argue the results of your test
Steve One said:
I like the camera on the turbo, can't understand how anyone could argue the results of your test
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Steve I did my best to present visual evidence and leave my own personal opinion out as best I could, I didn't know what the outcome would be and I would have presented results even if the Turbo had crapped out. I wanted to address focus and shutter speed on moving objects. The following IS an opinion: the camera is only as good as the hands holding it, even the world's best camera can take a bad picture in the wrong hands. The pictures the IPhone took were considerably darker than actual surroundings, the sky was NOT the darker blue in the picture and of course the obvious: no vehicles are present in the IPhone pictures, if you look hard enough to the right in one picture you will see the car I was trying to capture.
If you have a ceiling fan in your house or office, do the same test on the fan, well lit, low speed.
I've been doing that with the DT and whatever other phones I can lay hands on, none of them that
are built into a phone do very well. My observations that given some light and distance, the DT can
do OK with movement, but lack of light and/or up close action it's lacking. It isn't an accident that they
are putting dual flashes and ring flashes and such on cameras, the $2 sensor and lack of lens is really hurting.
wolf_walker69 said:
If you have a ceiling fan in your house or office, do the same test on the fan, well lit, low speed.
I've been doing that with the DT and whatever other phones I can lay hands on, none of them that
are built into a phone do very well. My observations that given some light and distance, the DT can
do OK with movement, but lack of light and/or up close action it's lacking. It isn't an accident that they
are putting dual flashes and ring flashes and such on cameras, the $2 sensor and lack of lens is really hurting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You realize its the same camera that the Z3 has, right?
For a phone camera, it is pretty good. As for the ceiling fan, that is a rather silly test considering typical shots a phone will take arent that fast. Everyone can agree that there are a few aoftware quips that need to be fixed, but lets stop moving goal posts when someone defies a complaint, yeah? It's never going to be as fast as a DSLR or even a point and shoot.
I don't care if it's Genghis Khan's own Point-N-Shoot, it's deficient in a number of areas.
Like anything moving that isn't 20 yards away or in direct sunlight, or a christmas tree.
Nor am I alone. And that fake DSLR soft focus BS isn't fooling me either.
When conditions are favorable to the DT's camera strengths, it takes very nice photos, better
than my S4 for example, the rub is the S4 took better photos most of the time because it's
range of acceptable conditions was wider. There are a hoard of people with kids and dogs
which are frequently in motion that are not pleased with the basically useless camera in those
situations.
http://forums.androidcentral.com/mo...droid-turbo-photos-auto-focus-blurry-why.html
wolf_walker69 said:
I don't care if it's Genghis Khan's own Point-N-Shoot, it's deficient in a number of areas.
Like anything moving that isn't 20 yards away or in direct sunlight, or a christmas tree.
Nor am I alone. And that fake DSLR soft focus BS isn't fooling me either.
When conditions are favorable to the DT's camera strengths, it takes very nice photos, better
than my S4 for example, the rub is the S4 took better photos most of the time because it's
range of acceptable conditions was wider. There are a hoard of people with kids and dogs
which are frequently in motion that are not pleased with the basically useless camera in those
situations.
http://forums.androidcentral.com/mo...droid-turbo-photos-auto-focus-blurry-why.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here are some pictures of my baby girl, she posed in one; all the others she was moving and yes I can take a bad picture I'm man enough to admit it. I just think "basically useless" is a bit harsh. Merry Christmas.
Great looking dog! Your pics perfectly illustrate the performance I've observed, well lit, white background to reflect available light, mostly static subject, GREAT pics.
That last one with the blurry head, typical for less than great light or up close movement.
wolf_walker69 said:
I don't care if it's Genghis Khan's own Point-N-Shoot, it's deficient in a number of areas.
Like anything moving that isn't 20 yards away or in direct sunlight, or a christmas tree.
Nor am I alone. And that fake DSLR soft focus BS isn't fooling me either.
When conditions are favorable to the DT's camera strengths, it takes very nice photos, better
than my S4 for example, the rub is the S4 took better photos most of the time because it's
range of acceptable conditions was wider. There are a hoard of people with kids and dogs
which are frequently in motion that are not pleased with the basically useless camera in those
situations.
http://forums.androidcentral.com/mo...droid-turbo-photos-auto-focus-blurry-why.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the grass is always greener.. if you read through some of those post you will come to the one where the guy with the Note 4 says he has similar results with what everyone praises as the one of the best cameras.. My DT could take some crappy shots as well as some amazing ones, and so can my wife's iPhone 5s.. I agree with an earlier comment.. I would say the overwhelming factor in getting good pics from any phone... is the user..
I now have the N6 and the story is the same.. some pics are trash some are great.., i take pics with that knowledge therefore I don't get as disappointed as I used to.
lazarus2297 said:
the grass is always greener.. if you read through some of those post you will come to the one where the guy with the Note 4 says he has similar results with what everyone praises as the one of the best cameras.. My DT could take some crappy shots as well as some amazing ones, and so can my wife's iPhone 5s.. I agree with an earlier comment.. I would say the overwhelming factor in getting good pics from any phone... is the user..
I now have the N6 and the story is the same.. some pics are trash some are great.., i take pics with that knowledge therefore I don't get as disappointed as I used to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that the camera operator has much to do with the quality of pictures that come of the camera phone itself. This applies to non-phone cameras too.
I understand that the Z5 has a wider field of view than other phones, e.g. my Samsung Galaxy S5. But the problem is that the distortion in the corners is rather ridiculous.
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My spherical exercise ball looks like a f'in egg. What's the point of a wider lens if things in the corner are so badly distorted? Here's the picture in full distorted glory.
Here is a comparison with the Samsung Galaxy S5:
How do people correct for this?
Do you crop the image, correct in Photoshop, or just ignore? PTLens doesn't have lens information for any Xperia devices.
I wanted kind of the same answers and I was told to buy new phone basically... Oh well
I was gona make a thread abt this, i am also a former user of galaxy s5 ( n still use it as back up) the 16mp camera on the s5 is day and night better, my s5 atleast never had blurr watsoever, and the black was black ( specaily in dark shot) but on the z5 anything shot gotta be blurred ( well shooting 1080 gets me more details when i zoom than the 23mp stillshots) oh and in dark stillshots u gota have the blueish black. Seriously sony ?
Am not a photographer by any means or really use my fone to take lots of pics , but u kno when u get a good scene that u have to atleast take one pic for good memories? Well the z5 fails u big time.
Ps i dont have any kind of distortion on my z5, however the noise and the blurr ruin the whole 23mp thingy, manual mode is a joke bcuz the camera just goes crazy in 1st place if there is anything black or blue in dark shots
Vcaddy said:
Ps i dont have any kind of distortion on my z5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure you don't have any kind of distortion on your Z5? Try taking a picture of a row of windows that looks like a grid (like this), and see what you get.
I ran a monitor test and took a photo of that.
Is the result bad enough to ask for a replacement Z5 or should I just accept it as a feature?
Apparently i didnt play with camera as much u hence i never noticed the distortion, yes i can confirm that i have the same distortion on every corner of the camera, its even visible without taking a picture. Is this how the wider lens should be ? As i dont think all our z5 cameras r broken
I noticed the distortion as soon as I took my first picture. It really bothers me. On top of that you can see how black objects come out blue in low light. Very disappointed. The front right stove burner is considerably smaller than that back left. In one picture they look the same size.
You can see in the first picture the actual size of the furthest burners. The closest two are the same difference in size from one another. They look the same.
I would say there is nothing that cant be fixed with a firmware update from sony as i dont think the camera is the problem here but rather its firmware
As a DLSR photographer, this is the kind of thing you get with such a wide angle lens--it requires very large and expensive lenses to get around (like the Canon L series) so I wouldn't worry about it. If it bothers you that much, then take a picture in the 8MP mode and zoom in so the phone crops out the corners.
Alternatively, you can profile the distortion of the lens and then apply correction in post-processing, but day-to-day shots don't warrant this level of obsession.
More pictures of Z5 corner distortion
sovanyio said:
As a DLSR photographer, this is the kind of thing you get with such a wide angle lens--it requires very large and expensive lenses to get around (like the Canon L series) so I wouldn't worry about it. If it bothers you that much, then take a picture in the 8MP mode and zoom in so the phone crops out the corners.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing that every time I take a picture is a pain and defeats the purpose of having a dedicated camera key to take photos fast.
sovanyio said:
Alternatively, you can profile the distortion of the lens and then apply correction in post-processing,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done that sort of thing for regular camera pictures, but my question is:
With this much processor power in the phone, why doesn't it automatically apply this correction? If you say "for performance", I'll counter with:
the camera's hardware could have highly optimized code for correcting the distortion, since its parameters are known
correction could be queued and done by software after the photos are taken
sovanyio said:
but day-to-day shots don't warrant this level of obsession.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough, unless ordinary shots look downright comical. I've had smartphones before and am aware of the problem (see my comparison with the S5 above), but it never really bothered me. With the Z5, it does. The distortion is kind of "in your face", and not easy to ignore. Make the pictures look badly Photoshopped:
Try taking a picture of a group of people and it will look closer to the last pic from the page.
Anyway, here are more Z5 shots illustrating the distortion. This one shows both the pincushion and left-side blur:
dandv said:
Doing that every time I take a picture is a pain and defeats the purpose of having a dedicated camera key to take photos fast.
I've done that sort of thing for regular camera pictures, but my question is:
With this much processor power in the phone, why doesn't it automatically apply this correction? If you say "for performance", I'll counter with:
the camera's hardware could have highly optimized code for correcting the distortion, since its parameters are known
correction could be queued and done by software after the photos are taken
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I, for one, prefer that my original shots are not processed beyond the camera's noise reduction algorithms. But its a fair point, they could enable this in settings. But that would require user configuration since each phone/lens combination will have unique lens calibration values--something that is probably too top heavy for the manufacturing process.
The thing that bothers me the most is the blue tint on the edges of photos in low light. What is up with that?
Also, if I cover the lens entirely with my hand and take a photo of the blackness, there is heavy blue tint on the edges, particularly on the left side..
xevious_ said:
The thing that bothers me the most is the blue tint on the edges of photos in low light. What is up with that?
Also, if I cover the lens entirely with my hand and take a photo of the blackness, there is heavy blue tint on the edges, particularly on the left side..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I, too, left side blue, wants to try to change the camera module.
vyshgorado said:
I, too, left side blue, wants to try to change the camera module.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's call "left hand blur issue".no word from Sony regarding this!!!!!it's a hardware issue on most of
The z5 families..only option is to change the camera module..
dandv said:
I understand that the Z5 has a wider field of view than other phones, e.g. my Samsung Galaxy S5. But the problem is that the distortion in the corners is rather ridiculous.
My spherical exercise ball looks like a f'in egg. What's the point of a wider lens if things in the corner are so badly distorted? Here's the picture in full distorted glory.
Here is a comparison with the Samsung Galaxy S5:
How do people correct for this?
Do you crop the image, correct in Photoshop, or just ignore? PTLens doesn't have lens information for any Xperia devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Common on all lenses, even $5,000 and upward lenses have more blur at the edges than the centre. Worse on wide angle lenses.
I am guessing the Sony Lens is;
1. A faster lens (f stops)
2. Wider angle.
Yep and yep on both counts, sure enough
Z5 23 MP, f/2.0, 24mm
16 MP, f/2.2, 31mm
dodo1515 said:
It's call "left hand blur issue".no word from Sony regarding this!!!!!it's a hardware issue on most of
The z5 families..only option is to change the camera module..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you go about changing the camera module? Do I have to get a replacement phone?
xevious_ said:
How do you go about changing the camera module? Do I have to get a replacement phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check those links for your answer:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/sony-mobile-problems-camera-z5-family-t3262292
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/im-doing-tally-z5-series-affected-left-t3242302
dodo1515 said:
Check those links for your answer:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/sony-mobile-problems-camera-z5-family-t3262292
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/im-doing-tally-z5-series-affected-left-t3242302
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in the USA (New York), so I don't think there's any service center I can visit for this blue tint issue..
xevious_ said:
I am in the USA (New York), so I don't think there's any service center I can visit for this blue tint issue..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too l can't return it l have both z5 and premium with the same issue..
L'm just hoping that it's can be adjusted with a software update...
vyshgorado said:
I, too, left side blue, wants to try to change the camera module.
dodo1515 said:
It's call "left hand blur issue".no word from Sony regarding this!!!!!it's a hardware issue on most of
The z5 families..only option is to change the camera module..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The blue color at the edges in dark shots is perfectly avoidable by using manual mode with the night scene program. It occurs mainly in superior auto.
It has nothing to do with blur of any kind. It's failed post processing I think.