After posting the camera comparison between old and .257 firmware I went out and did some more testing. This is one (actually, one of the better) shot done indoors at ISO 250, manual, slight +EV, 8MP 4:3.
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I have boxed the three main complaints with this image:
green: heavy artifacts at color bridges, this is likely still the same issue of oversharpening and next-pixel balancing getting into each others' faces
red: in flat color areas it introduces huge noise
orange: fine detail such as faces is washed out and unusably so
Three things are different here: I'd used the phone for a while and it had gotten a little warmer than it'd been when I took the outdoors photos. In general do I notice a distinct reduction in image quality as the phone gets warmer, I took the same picture twice, sandwiching a ten second video (and we know how hot the phone gets from even short video). After the "your phone is too hot" message went away I took a second picture and it looked like crap. It's indoors, ISO 250 instead of 50 ... and it's a very color and detail intensive image.
But the two girls at the back still look fit
deleted
gioiellino said:
+1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When it comes to perving on a 16 and 17 year old cooks' apprentice I never thought XDA would be the place to go.
jluster said:
When it comes to perving on a 16 and 17 year old cooks' apprentice I never thought XDA would be the place to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
be quiet, but only joking here, i delete the post...
for the photo i have your problem too, and im searching other camera app, to try if is a hardware o software problem.
in app section i post a new camera app, very good, if you want try this.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2499518
jluster said:
After posting the camera comparison between old and .257 firmware I went out and did some more testing. This is one (actually, one of the better) shot done indoors at ISO 250, manual, slight +EV, 8MP 4:3.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a tricky shot to get because of the back lighted window. Ideally a fill flash situation but not an option in your case given the apparent distance. It isn't surprising to see the problem areas you noted tend to cluster around the window. So how do you find the detail in the rest of the shot where the food is for example, its hard to say anything more because this is a downsampled image with no orignal provided.
green: heavy artifacts at color bridges, this is likely still the same issue of oversharpening and next-pixel balancing getting into each others' faces
red: in flat color areas it introduces huge noise
orange: fine detail such as faces is washed out and unusably so
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you use spot metering here ? Where you metered off will influence how the detail appears. Its properly exposed from what i can see. Nice shot
jluster said:
Three things are different here: I'd used the phone for a while and it had gotten a little warmer than it'd been when I took the outdoors photos. In general do I notice a distinct reduction in image quality as the phone gets warmer, I took the same picture twice, sandwiching a ten second video (and we know how hot the phone gets from even short video). After the "your phone is too hot" message went away I took a second picture and it looked like crap. It's indoors, ISO 250 instead of 50 ... and it's a very color and detail intensive image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen mixed reports about heating when using the camera. Some say it does not heat up too much whereas other say it does. had chatted with someone about this and was told even videoing for ten minutes did not heat it up too much. Too much is relative here with other devices i suppose.
One Twelve said:
Did you use spot metering here ? Where you metered off will influence how the detail appears. Its properly exposed from what i can see. Nice shot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why I avoid making statements about exposure. What I am attempting (and I think I am being successful) to show is the introduction of fringing, halos, artifacts, oversharpening noise, and next-pixel supersample blur. This is by the way not a downsample, it's a 1:1 100% crop (as, I believe, any camera comparison should be. Worse are those passing off AutoAwesome and AutoEnhance pictures as "in camera," but that's another rant for another time.
I had a chance to chitchat with some Sony engineers on Saturday and they seem to be reluctantly aware (and considering they're dogfooding 4.3 right now, I think we'll see little improvement in that arena) of the next-pixel issues and artifacts.
Let me make this clear: I don't think this is bad camera mojo. It's acceptable (5th after iPhone, Nokia, and Samsung Galaxy S4 isn't all that bad) but given the amazing hardware we have it makes me sad that we don't get better.
Also you did not mention whether this is a 20MP or 8MP photo.
I wondered whether there was any advantage to taking a 20MP shot and oversampling on a pc to a lower resolution. Whether that may produce a better photo that in-phone as pc has more processing power and also more time to work and produce a better quality image. I understand that the oversampling is a chip level implementation so its quick whether any advantage can be gained doing this in post is unclear to me atm.
The thing about exposure is if there is enough light or the sensor was more sensitive then would those halos, artifacts etc be less. You got those artifacts because perceived light was lower than ideal. I might take a worse shot than you did with that picture where it could be even more pronounced. If there was a way to lock exposure like on other cameras do we get a better shot or not.
The answer which you do not want to hear is i would try to avoid that window during framing the shot. Its too hard to fix without a fill flash.
As for capabilities of Z1, i look forward and hope to see manual shutter speed control. If you compare with procamera on lumia that's the only parameter missing in the sony manual interface.
jluster said:
After posting the camera comparison between old and .257 firmware I went out and did some more testing. This is one (actually, one of the better) shot done indoors at ISO 250, manual, slight +EV, 8MP 4:3.
I have boxed the three main complaints with this image:
green: heavy artifacts at color bridges, this is likely still the same issue of oversharpening and next-pixel balancing getting into each others' faces
red: in flat color areas it introduces huge noise
orange: fine detail such as faces is washed out and unusably so
Three things are different here: I'd used the phone for a while and it had gotten a little warmer than it'd been when I took the outdoors photos. In general do I notice a distinct reduction in image quality as the phone gets warmer, I took the same picture twice, sandwiching a ten second video (and we know how hot the phone gets from even short video). After the "your phone is too hot" message went away I took a second picture and it looked like crap. It's indoors, ISO 250 instead of 50 ... and it's a very color and detail intensive image.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had exactly these problems on the new .257 firmware so I changed back to the older one and what a difference the older one I have found to take much better photo's then the newer .257. I know a lot of people will disagree and say the 257 is much better but on my z1 I have found it to be the complete opposite
One Twelve said:
Also you did not mention whether this is a 20MP or 8MP photo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I do: "ISO 250, manual, slight +EV, 8MP 4:3"
The thing about exposure is if there is enough light or the sensor was more sensitive then would those halos, artifacts etc be less. You got those artifacts because perceived light was lower than ideal. I might take a worse shot than you did with that picture where it could be even more pronounced. If there was a way to lock exposure like on other cameras do we get a better shot or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The other thing about exposure is, however, that the best way to establish the (non-scientific) usability of a camera is to aim it around and take pictures of things the way people would, then look at them and ask yourself: would that make me/them happy? Heck, go to Walmart and print some glossies, whatever, find out if you can make photos you'd share.
As for capabilities of Z1, i look forward and hope to see manual shutter speed control. If you compare with procamera on lumia that's the only parameter missing in the sony manual interface.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lumia's HDR stitching is more accurate and it doesn't fall off along the edges in luminescence. Where the Z1 has it beat is in color retention in lower lights, though.
jluster said:
Yes, I do: "ISO 250, manual, slight +EV, 8MP 4:3"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My mistake
jluster said:
The other thing about exposure is, however, that the best way to establish the (non-scientific) usability of a camera is to aim it around and take pictures of things the way people would, then look at them and ask yourself: would that make me/them happy? Heck, go to Walmart and print some glossies, whatever, find out if you can make photos you'd share.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Would like you to comment on the other areas of the photo. Since you did not mention it do we assume the three areas are the only ones you were not satisfied with. For me the cluster around the window indicates a backlighting problem. underexposed subjects etc. Though i have to say you got a very well exposed photo there. So as to make me think this is the best that one can expect under the circumstances.
Will you tell us how you took that photo, back light scn mode or spot metering ?
Here is another old vs new fw camera comparison:
http://www.soyacincau.com/2013/10/2...a-performance-compared-after-software-update/
In this particular photo, I don't see any improvements:
Cheers,
Miki
Here's one comparison with the c6903
.534
.257
DIfference is subtle, slightly cleaner in the .257
miki_69 said:
Here is another old vs new fw camera comparison:
http://www.soyacincau.com/2013/10/2...a-performance-compared-after-software-update/
In this particular photo, I don't see any improvements:
Cheers,
Miki
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not this... but unfocus area
logzz said:
I had exactly these problems on the new .257 firmware so I changed back to the older one and what a difference the older one I have found to take much better photo's then the newer .257. I know a lot of people will disagree and say the 257 is much better but on my z1 I have found it to be the complete opposite
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought I was the only one.
Kept reading everyone say the new firmware was a big improvement for the camera but every photo I took looked grainy. I took a photo of 2 of my boys yesterday in low light. Had -ev and it was the first 'decent' picture I had taken since I upgraded the firmware.
Then I realised that one of my kids was sharp/clear, but my other boy sitting beside him was out of focus.
Maybe he moved slightly and because of the longer shutter speed it caused the problem?
Although that's still only one good pic out of maybe 50.
It's not a big deal, I'll just downgrade the firmware after work as before the new firmware every photo was great.
Low light as well as sunny conditions the camera was a boss.
Another thing, my viewing angles are perfect.
Why do some Z1's look **** when viewed on a slight angle AND benefit from a newer firmware, and others look no different when looking at the phone almost flat AND suffer after a firmware upgrade?
When I check out my pics/videos from a mad angle the screen is bright as ****. I've seen footage where the phone is tilted and the screen looks ****. Definitely not the case with my phone.
Have they all got different parts in them?
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
LJE said:
I thought I was the only one.
Kept reading everyone say the new firmware was a big improvement for the camera but every photo I took looked grainy. I took a photo of 2 of my boys yesterday in low light. Had -ev and it was the first 'decent' picture I had taken since I upgraded the firmware.
Then I realised that one of my kids was sharp/clear, but my other boy sitting beside him was out of focus.
Maybe he moved slightly and because of the longer shutter speed it caused the problem?
Although that's still only one good pic out of maybe 50.
It's not a big deal, I'll just downgrade the firmware after work as before the new firmware every photo was great.
Low light as well as sunny conditions the camera was a boss.
Another thing, my viewing angles are perfect.
Why do some Z1's look **** when viewed on a slight angle AND benefit from a newer firmware, and others look no different when looking at the phone almost flat AND suffer after a firmware upgrade?
When I check out my pics/videos from a mad angle the screen is bright as ****. I've seen footage where the phone is tilted and the screen looks ****. Definitely not the case with my phone.
Have they all got different parts in them?
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am starting to wonder if they do all have different parts I can confirm there is a difference in screens as I bought two z1 phones just for compare and I found one had a better screen with more contrast and saturated colours. And the one with the better screen had a slightly better camera too. But this new firmware really pissed me off for me it was a huge step backwards the camera I found to be a lot worse as I have said earlier. The battery life on the new firmware I found to be pathetic and also the screen colour I found to be worse. The only thing it did fix was the screen going all black but back light staying on. How ever I got random reboots twice on the new firmware.
Now on the other hand my friend bought a Samsung note 3 and the camera on that performs far better then the xperia z1 also. Im starting to wonder weather I should change to a note 3 as im starting to feel im just wasting my time with sony. The software engineers they have working on the firmware updates need to be shot. How hard can it really be to make a good firmware???? What is sony doing???? I suspect they will never get it right for everyone because of different parts being used all the time.
logzz said:
I am starting to wonder if they do all have different parts I can confirm there is a difference in screens as I bought two z1 phones just for compare and I found one had a better screen with more contrast and saturated colours. And the one with the better screen had a slightly better camera too. But this new firmware really pissed me off for me it was a huge step backwards the camera I found to be a lot worse as I have said earlier. The battery life on the new firmware I found to be pathetic and also the screen colour I found to be worse. The only thing it did fix was the screen going all black but back light staying on. How ever I got random reboots twice on the new firmware.
Now on the other hand my friend bought a Samsung note 3 and the camera on that performs far better then the xperia z1 also. Im starting to wonder weather I should change to a note 3 as im starting to feel im just wasting my time with sony. The software engineers they have working on the firmware updates need to be shot. How hard can it really be to make a good firmware???? What is sony doing???? I suspect they will never get it right for everyone because of different parts being used all the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bought 2 Z1's so you could compare the screen?
Really?
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
LJE said:
You bought 2 Z1's so you could compare the screen?
Really?
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes and they both had a very similar serial numbers but the screens were different, I have sold the other one now tho and kept the better one.
logzz said:
yes and they both had a very similar serial numbers but the screens were different, I have sold the other one now tho and kept the better one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never had two phones of the same model with screens that look identical side by side. I'm sure the same applies to other displays and also TVs, which is why anyone in graphic design will pay to have monitors calibrated properly - and when you have video walls, these also need to be calibrated so one panel doesn't stand out.
But on their own, it's hard to tell which screen is 'right' or not.
I love my Xperia Z1. I have nothing to complain about aside from speaker and viewing angles which could be better, still it's not bad and improves on the Z. And the viewing angle issue seems to be less visible when you play a video. The only thing the camera is lacking is optical image stabilization. The focus is sometimes hit and more miss too. But overall, pictures are stunning for a phone (even in low light) but maybe I don't set the bar high enough. I've had the old and new firmware, was already happy with the old one and now I am happy with the new one. I quickly compared pictures with an iPhone 5 and it's easily on par.
Related
My first Galaxy Note had dead pixels, burn-in effects (don't know what you call them but there are pictures in the link below). The second one I got as a replacement had much more burn-in effects than the first one. The third Galaxy Note had burn-in effects but not as much as the first two, but the gyroscope isn't working on third one, yes I've calibrated it like a thousand times. All of these phones had the burn-in effects out of the box, so it wasn't I who was overheating the phones screen or something like that...
There were also other minor problems (with all three phones) like bad audio quality, bad Bluetooth connectivity, minor lagging and small blocks appearing when watching videos (yes, even of high quality videos) which doesn't appear on any other phone I've had.
I've never had any of these problems with another phone. I've mainly used Sony Ericsson and Apple phones. Off topic, or maybe not.. I also bought an Samsung Galaxy S2 for my girlfriend and it too had burn-in effects and a burnt in status bar (nothing she really cared about, I take it as does most of the people who have it), so it's not just the Galaxy Note suffering from this issue.
Now I'm here, with my third fricking defective Galaxy Note, really pissed off at these issues. If one pays ca. 500+ euros for a quality phone made by the "best" phone company in the world one doesn't expect to have these issues.
I will try to solve this by contacting Samsung. But I would ask of other owners of the Galaxy Note to do the following test on their phones and post a result.
Download the app:
1. Dead Pixel Detect and Fix
2. Start with choosing the colors white and grey
3. Within the app, go to settings, set brightness to lowest.
4. Be in a dark room and look for these burn in effects I'm talking about (dark vertical and horizontal lines + smudges).
Take a picture of the screen with another camera, taking a picture with the phone itself won't show these issues as it's not software issue but a hardware issue.
These were my results with the first two phones I bought:
http://imageshack.us/g/685/bild4ht.jpg/ (There is only one color displayed and there are lots of dark lines and smudges, ignore the grain)
Thank you.
Looking at your pictures they do look very bad, I cant even tell if that is supposed to be a white or grey rendering on the screen but thats an obvious defect.
Did you get your note from a retail store?
I've also had several replacements with my S2 and I ended up getting a refund.
IMHO, part of the cause of this really low quality control is not by samsung but from other users who accept obvious defects to be normal or tolerable, sure its gonna be a PIA to have it exchanged upto more then a dozen times but since a great majority of them are just accepting it so samsung is giving us sup par quality control.
Can't remember if the colors were white or grey on the first picture, but they were definitely the same on both phones!
I bought the first two phones from amazon.de, I got my money back from amazon.de. And I got my third galaxy note yesterday from handyshop.de...
EarlZ said:
IMHO, part of the cause of this really low quality control is not by samsung but from other users who accept obvious defects to be normal or tolerable, sure its gonna be a PIA to have it exchanged upto more then a dozen times but since a great majority of them are just accepting it so samsung is giving us sup par quality control.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Might be. It seems like the people who are buying Samsung phones doesn't know what quality is, so they just keep the phones and praise the company and the model.
SrAdama said:
Might be. It seems like the people who are buying Samsung phones doesn't know what quality is, so they just keep the phones and praise the company and the model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They know what quality is, they just accept the defects as normal. For me I find it hard to accept some of the screen defects when I never faced this issue with first 2 SAMOLED devices. I guess its the flawless screens I had with my first 2 devices placed me in such high expectations especially on the SAMOLED Plus.
I'll try to see if I can also have mine replaced, the only issue I have is the faint horizontal lines, can be seen even when browsing. No effort needed to see it.
EarlZ said:
the only issue I have is the faint horizontal lines, can be seen even when browsing. No effort needed to see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One does not necessarily need to do the test I've put up to see these defects, I can see them whenever the background image is grey or white.
SrAdama said:
I've never had any of these problems with another phone. I've mainly used Sony Ericsson and Apple phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to read of your difficulties, but you do realize their are plenty of Sony and Apple owners with similar problems, right? You've just been lucky until now.
I have a SGS2 and My screen is perfect! Tried the app that is mentioned and all colors are perfect! Maybe there is a bad batch of Super AMOLED HD panels floating around. Don't know but I have never seen SAMOLED screen in such a bad shape! And I've seen a lot! Have somebody heard of Nexus Prime having this issues too?
Sorry, but may you take one picture and draw a circle around the defects? I'm honest: I don't see the banding/burn-in effects on your pictures, nor any dead pixels.
All I see is a poorly made photo, which isn't really sharp, sometimes shaken, and has a lot of grain, probably taken with a low cost camera at a too low brightness the camera isn't able to work with.
If I run the program on my HTC Desire (AMOLED) and on the Samsung Galaxy Note (Super AMOLED) I can't spot an failure. I see a minor burn-in in the notification area, which has nothing to do with quality control but rather it's a display technology limitation.
Else I can't spot any defects, no burn-ins, banding, ...
Just as I don't see this on your pictures, except a lot of grain caused by your camera.
One thing is obvious, that at the lowest brightness setting in a dark room, displaying a dark color, taken with a high exposure time, one can spot a difference in color reproduction between both models. But this is no failure at all, because the difference is minor and the frame conditions stupid. And you probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference without a direct comparison at such artificial frame conditions. And the question is, do other manufacturers allow such a low brightness? Do others have such an evenly lit display?
I really don't see any failure with your models.
So please, make a good photo, with a good DSLR, which is a necessity at such low lights, mounted on a tripod, and then draw a circle around the dead pixels, the banding and the burn-in.
UpSpin said:
Sorry, but may you take one picture and draw a circle around the defects? I'm honest: I don't see the banding/burn-in effects on your pictures, nor any dead pixels.
All I see is a poorly made photo, which isn't really sharp, sometimes shaken, and has a lot of grain, probably taken with a low cost camera at a too low brightness the camera isn't able to work with.
If I run the program on my HTC Desire (AMOLED) and on the Samsung Galaxy Note (Super AMOLED) I can't spot an failure. I see a minor burn-in in the notification area, which has nothing to do with quality control but rather it's a display technology limitation.
Else I can't spot any defects, no burn-ins, banding, ...
Just as I don't see this on your pictures, except a lot of grain caused by your camera.
One thing is obvious, that at the lowest brightness setting in a dark room, displaying a dark color, taken with a high exposure time, one can spot a difference in color reproduction between both models. But this is no failure at all, because the difference is minor and the frame conditions stupid. And you probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference without a direct comparison at such artificial frame conditions. And the question is, do other manufacturers allow such a low brightness? Do others have such an evenly lit display?
I really don't see any failure with your models.
So please, make a good photo, with a good DSLR, which is a necessity at such low lights, mounted on a tripod, and then draw a circle around the dead pixels, the banding and the burn-in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are blind.
OrionBG said:
Maybe there is a bad batch of Super AMOLED HD panels floating around. Don't know but I have never seen SAMOLED screen in such a bad shape!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I've never seen such problems on a screen before, hopefully just a bad batch, but on two different models?
bigmout said:
Sorry to read of your difficulties, but you do realize their are plenty of Sony and Apple owners with similar problems, right? You've just been lucky until now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never heard of any screen problems with Apple and SE, (not saying it doesn't exist) but yes I might have been lucky until now. But what are the odds, 3 gnotes in a row (+ my gf's S2), more or less. It's like all my good luck has secretly been accumulating a lot of bad luck lol. Yeah but I can live with this third one, it's not as bad as the first two. But the problem is the gyroscope. It works randomly.
This is a major feature of recent Samsung Amoled actually. People have been complaining of screen problem for Galaxy SII, Nexus and Note.
They might not want to make the same mistake with their new 2560x1600 ICS tablet.
I've been interested in other phones that uses Sharp's ASV panel.
SrAdama said:
I think you are blind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think UpSpin is not blind.
Here you go:
These are pictures made at the same time and light with a DSLR camera and "normal" phone camera.
1. DSLR: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12581372/DSLR Sony A55.jpg
2. HTC Desire Z : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12581372/HTC Desire Z.jpg
Me and UpSpin can both see the difference
SrAdama said:
I think you are blind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks you for not answering my questions at all. Somehow I lose faith in the validity of your issues at all.
SrAdama said:
Never heard of any screen problems with Apple and SE, (not saying it doesn't exist) but yes I might have been lucky until now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange that you compare OLED displays with LCD. No LCD on earth has a black as OLED, so if you compare OLED next to LCD at such sub-opimatl conditions you'll notice, that LCD won't even go as dark.
And never had any sort of backlight bleed? Just do a google search 'iPhone 4 backlight bleed' which are issues which are obvious.
I still can't see the issues on your pictures. I see artifacts and errors caused by the poor digital camera you used, just as buk_grudziadz nicely compared, thank you buk_grudziadz. But I don't see display failures and you don't seem to be able to show me them, else you would have done it already, or?
UpSpin said:
thanks you for not answering my questions at all. Somehow I lose faith in the validity of your issues at all.?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well your whole comment seemed more like an insult than any help. How can't you see the issues on the screen? There is only one color on the whole screen, do you think it looks even? You and your friend are the first two people to complain about the photo quality, I'm not the best photographer and I don't know much about how to take good photos, but the problem is very visible. There are black lines, horizontal and vertical and dark smudges. I wish I knew how to take better pictures, even if I did know I don't have the phones since I returned them.
I have the third one left, but it's not that bad as the first two. If you want I can take a photo of it with a galaxy S2.
maybe your phones have the issues, I don't know and I can't tell it.
It's impossible to tell if the photos were taken with a smartphone camera, which adds that much noise that any slight color failures get overshadowed.
Just as with the pictures buk_grudziadz has taken. The display in the photo taken with the DSLR looks perfect, which it is. The same display taken with the Desire Z looks wrong. It has artifacts, color distortion (green and red) seems to have banding, and is grainy (noise), but it isn't. The photo is totally misleading, just as yours are.
So by looking at your pictures your display looks wrong, but not because of the display, but because of the poor camera quality. You can't do better photos with a smartphone camera, even with a point and shot camera it's difficult, you need a DSLR with a large CCD/CMOS sensor and good optics to take reasonable pictures at such a low light. If you don't have one, ask a friend. But the photos you posted are useless, sorry.
Just take a look at the two photos buk_grudziadz posted and tell me, does the display in the photo taken with the Desire Z look faulty or good?
I think your problem is that you are a screen nazi. No screen is perfect. I myself found a dead pixel with your app that i never noticed.
BTW to my knowledge AMOLED displays don't have backlight and the pixels themselves emit light right? So if I'm right, how is it possible to even burn the image of the statusbar when Samsung uses black theme? black means pixels off. How can an image be burned in the display that way?
@UpSpin
They did have those issues and I don't care if you think they "maybe" had those issues. Who the hell do you think you are coming here and being rude, questioning the validity of the issues I've had. I've been through hell with these phones complaining, sending them back, waiting for new ones and loosing money. You are not helping by complaining about the photos.
Do you really think someone would waste their free time on lying about some frickin issues on cellphones? The first person to answer this thread clearly could see them, and I wouldn't post those photos if they didn't look like EXACTLY what I could see with my own eyes. I posted those photos here a long time ago in another thread and nobody complained about the quality. They all saw the issues, many of them had the issues too.
I'm on my third galaxy note and it does have these issues, but luckily not as visible as the first two. When using the same camera I used before and the same settings on the new galaxy note, the problems are barely visible. It doesn't give the new phone some banding or artifacts.
Now these issues was mostly visible when using the lowest screen brightness with grey or white colors (picture yourself reading a book or browsing the internet). It was really annoying and a quality phone from the best phone company shouldn't have those issues.
epicfailguy2 said:
I think your problem is that you are a screen nazi. No screen is perfect. I myself found a dead pixel with your app that i never noticed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your comment, it really helped me. Seriously though, my problem is that I care about quality, clearly some people don't judging by your comment. If I pay 500+ euros for a phone with an amazing 5.3" AMOLED HD screen from the best phone company in the world, I don't expect to have problems out of the box. And if you did read my first post you would see that the third galaxy note I have has those issues but not as much as the first two and I am FINE with it. I was just pointing out that all of the gnotes I received had those issues, more or less and I wanted to know if other people had those too.
I don't have to tell you how Android phones suffer on camera SW side, but while the Z1 improved on the Z's problematic image quality, it introduced unexpected issues in optics. The G-lens is a multi-element plastic lens system, and something inside the design and arrangement causes certain areas of the image to lose sharpness, Z1 owners know this. Unfortunately, while Sony's sure to work on image quality improvements, the optics of the Z2 are unchanged, here is a picture analysis.
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This is a downsampled Z2 image taken at 8MP (Auto Mode), because it's reduced to 40% of original pixel size, it should be super sharp (and not over-sharpened) at ALL AREAS, cause if this photo is not sharp, how the full 20MP result would look?
http://www.xataka.com/galeria/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/2/
1) But anyways, details in the middle are quite good, highly detailed, although you can spot quite a sharpening, but tolerable at this resolution (100% crop)
2) Moving just a bit away from the middle however, and look at how the buildings, trees, construction site are all of the sudden soft and lack of accurate focus
3) The left middle side of the lens is worst, this image would be just as sharp as in the middle on a say Samesong Note 3, LG Pro 2, iPhone 5S, Lumia 1520 whatever. Remind you this is still a crop from an 8MPs image, not 20, full size would have the same amount of detail spread over 2,5 larger area!
4) The left bottom corner is... relatively sharp again? Huh?
Right now Sony has a monumental mountain to climb to make their SW for their great sensor work reliable, cause the Z1 is not, it's not too high on detail either, and is badly over-processed (sharpening, noise reduction). But even if they get it right, optical issues won't go away, something is just wrong with the G-lens that is not addressed on the Z2, which is a pity.
Really? Pixel peeping on a cameraphone?! Something like this could have easily been a fingerprint or smudge on only half of the front lens cover.
Literally every camera in existance ranging from a phone camera to a high end DSLR has this 'problem'. The corners of the image sensor is always the softest. Its not a Sony issue.
Relax man. Had a Z1 myself and the lens rather soft on the corner at times, probably due to the f2.3 apeture.
But the blur on the middle right, the guy was taking aerial photo in behind the glass of a helicopter, so blur might present due to the helicopter panel.
kantk20111 said:
Literally every camera in existance ranging from a phone camera to a high end DSLR has this 'problem'. The corners of the image sensor is always the softest. Its not a Sony issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is. There is no softness around on a say iPhone 5S or Galaxy S4 Exmor RS, if the subject is sharp, the image is sharp all around. It is an undeniably crippling feature of the Z1, and apparently the Z2, and anyone with any sense of photography can spot these issues, see some Sony forums. I'm expecting a quality discussion here not "ur crazy dude, no camera is perfect homes".
BoneXDA said:
Yes it is. There is no softness around on a say iPhone 5S or Galaxy S4 Exmor RS, if the subject is sharp, the image is sharp all around. It is an undeniably crippling feature of the Z1, and apparently the Z2, and anyone with any sense of photography can spot these issues, see some Sony forums. I'm expecting a quality discussion here not "ur crazy dude, no camera is perfect homes".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What discussion is there to have? Do you want people to agree with you and reply 'ohhh yuhh z1 camera sux' or 'sony u suck lolol'? I stated my opinion, and it's true. I'm a pretty avid photographer, I have a Nikon D7100 and have a decent eye for photography. My D7100 with the 18-105 lens has the same problems at large aperture. Granted it's not as bad as the Z1's, but the softness is still there. Large aperture lenses have softness on the corners. I guarantee you will find the same result with the 5S or S4.
I could show you pictures that came out perfectly with my Z1 as well with none of the problems you mentioned. There are a ton of reasons why you could have got that blurriness in the middle. The camera lens could've been smudged, they might've got a bad phone, or, most probably, the guy was taking pictures out of a helicopter which was moving and might have had smudges on the window?
Let's take a look at another picture in this set:http://img.xataka.com/galleries/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/DSC_0046.JPG
Overall, it's a bit soft, but the random blurriness you mentioned is not present. Detail is sharp at the center and fuzzy at the edges, just like any camera, but the random blurs are not there. Why? Because the picture you showed was an abnormality.
This plagued my old Z also, thought it was a smudge or lens had become scuffed but this was not the case. I thought it was an isolated problem but this is a big concern as im eyeing the Z2 (obviously)
kantk20111 said:
What discussion is there to have? Do you want people to agree with you and reply 'ohhh yuhh z1 camera sux' or 'sony u suck lolol'? I stated my opinion, and it's true. I'm a pretty avid photographer, I have a Nikon D7100 and have a decent eye for photography. My D7100 with the 18-105 lens has the same problems at large aperture. Granted it's not as bad as the Z1's, but the softness is still there. Large aperture lenses have softness on the corners. I guarantee you will find the same result with the 5S or S4.
I could show you pictures that came out perfectly with my Z1 as well with none of the problems you mentioned. There are a ton of reasons why you could have got that blurriness in the middle. The camera lens could've been smudged, they might've got a bad phone, or, most probably, the guy was taking pictures out of a helicopter which was moving and might have had smudges on the window?
Let's take a look at another picture in this set:http://img.xataka.com/galleries/xperia-z2-muestras-barcelona/DSC_0046.JPG
Overall, it's a bit soft, but the random blurriness you mentioned is not present. Detail is sharp at the center and fuzzy at the edges, just like any camera, but the random blurs are not there. Why? Because the picture you showed was an abnormality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm also a photographer, and even when using L glass (yea I have a Canon, screw you Nikon...just kidding) there will be abnormalities. The z1 takes great photos. The blur is no big deal. It is just a phone. Now if my $2,000+ lens gave me these problems...that's another story lol
Sent from my LG Optimus G using xda app-developers app
kantk20111 said:
What discussion is there to have? Do you want people to agree with you and reply 'ohhh yuhh z1 camera sux' or 'sony u suck lolol'?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please stop trolling my thread. This is a camera lens discussion thread. Don't reply to this.
liliha said:
This plagued my old Z also, thought it was a smudge or lens had become scuffed but this was not the case. I thought it was an isolated problem but this is a big concern as im eyeing the Z2 (obviously)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for a reasonable response, Sony won't address the issue if ppl. play down the lens problems. Interestingly zoom lenses suffer from similar issues, but phones have fixed focal length, so there should be no softness all over the place. Unfortunately there is, I'll be looking to add full-size photos, maybe a few Z1s.
BoneXDA said:
Please stop trolling my thread. This is a camera lens discussion thread. Don't reply to this.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...did you seriously ignore the rest of my post because of that? I wrote that to reply directly to what you said.
BoneXDA said:
"ur crazy dude, no camera is perfect homes".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you don't have a response to my actual argument, don't reply, and don't call me a troll.
kantk20111 said:
Literally every camera in existance ranging from a phone camera to a high end DSLR has this 'problem'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope.
The OP sample is terrible even for a phone. As for DSLRs, even the cheapest ones with a kit lens will give you amazing results compare to this.
Relayers said:
Nope.
The OP sample is terrible even for a phone. As for DSLRs, even the cheapest ones with a kit lens will give you amazing results compare to this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, obviously, but the corners/edges of an image are the softest part of the image, that's a fact. The level of softness depends on the quality of the lens, which is why it doesn't make much of a difference in DSLRs. OP's sample is very poor but probably not a problem due to the lens.
kantk20111 said:
Well, obviously, but the corners/edges of an image are the softest part of the image, that's a fact. The level of softness depends on the quality of the lens, which is why it doesn't make much of a difference in DSLRs. OP's sample is very poor but probably not a problem due to the lens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its almost certainly a lens issue, maybe not all G-lenses are equal, but having read through extensive Z1 & Z1 Compact reviews, quite a few spot those soft areas. It's hard to see the software causing it, cause why are other parts sharper? But since there's a lot of noise filtering and sharpening going on, and manual and superior auto results can differ quite a bit, I can't rule that out.
BoneXDA said:
Its almost certainly a lens issue, maybe not all G-lenses are equal, but having read through extensive Z1 & Z1 Compact reviews, quite a few spot those soft areas. It's hard to see the software causing it, cause why are other parts sharper? But since there's a lot of noise filtering and sharpening going on, and manual and superior auto results can differ quite a bit, I can't rule that out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I took these two pictures seconds from each other, about 10 minutes ago. The blurrier one with the soft spots you mentioned was taken with Superior Auto. The sharper and brighter one was taken in manual, ISO 400 and +0.7 EV. Other than the slightly overblown whites in the manual one due to the increased EV, it's much sharper and has none of the soft spots you mentioned. I should mention that this was in reasonable low light, taken with the blinds down.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. There is nothing wrong with the G lens. The softness you mention is because of the software. Superior auto causes extreme compression as well as being very conservative with ISO levels leading to a fuzzy image. I have more examples comparing SA to manual and the trend remains. The Z1 hardware is more than capable. It is let down by a very poor auto mode.
Can you share the full-size photos?
BoneXDA said:
Can you share the full-size photos?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://speedyshare.com/v8u7y/DSC-0086.JPG
http://speedyshare.com/nqQhB/DSC-0087.JPG
kantk20111 said:
http://speedyshare.com/v8u7y/DSC-0086.JPG
http://speedyshare.com/nqQhB/DSC-0087.JPG
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't analyze too much there, superior out choose much higher ISO (2000 vs manual's 400), of course it's softer. But the subject on my shot (city) is properly focused and sharp... in some parts, soft in others. So if you have full 20MP photos with high background details, I'd have a look at it. So far, the Z2 shows sharpness inconsistencies, will post other photos if I find them.
BoneXDA said:
Can't analyze too much there, superior out choose much higher ISO (2000 vs manual's 400), of course it's softer. But the subject on my shot (city) is properly focused and sharp... in some parts, soft in others. So if you have full 20MP photos with high background details, I'd have a look at it. So far, the Z2 shows sharpness inconsistencies, will post other photos if I find them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for that, I can say Z2's SW is still not in its stable mode, but there are parts in my mind fighting that the Z2's camera SW is the same with the current Z1's camera SW. But well, this is in 4.4 KK so we never know if Sony has done again improvements (or maybe disruptions) with the camera SW.
Expect camera SW to be the same once Z1 got its 4.4 KK. Dunno but SD801 on Z2 has dual ISP chips compared to single ones on 800 on Z1, also dunno if it is also contributing to that BIONZ for mobile "fake" better image processing.
PS: I have a Z1 and it's really great to be with Sony. Just expecting them to topple again on cameraphone making, just like what they did to K750i and K800i way way back its time.
Thank you for raising concern about the camera here.. Gonna stay and absorbing the discussion now...
While I am at it, will this lens problem affect video results as well?
Because Z2 now support 4k video recording right? Just asking because I think 4K is the future and it's nice to have a future-proof documentations..
opensourcenoob said:
Thank you for raising concern about the camera here.. Gonna stay and absorbing the discussion now...
While I am at it, will this lens problem affect video results as well?
Because Z2 now support 4k video recording right? Just asking because I think 4K is the future and it's nice to have a future-proof documentations..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There isn't any concern
It's a strong title... I know. Before you carry on reading take a deep breath and keep an open mind.
I've been playing around with a few cameras, for the best camera for photo and video work.
I've had the chance to trial the Galaxy S5, Galaxy Note 3, LG G2 (4k mod), Sony Z1 and of course the Z2.
Now in my testing I have observed a few things and tested them to conclude the following:
The Z1 and Z2 share the same sensor and lens
The Z2 outputs less compression to increase the quality (larger file size)
The sensor themselves are amazing, able to capture huge dynamic range and have impressive low light capabilities.
The glass in front of the Exmor sensors are just crap, the so called 'G Lens'.
The lens causes a lot of softness/blur... only the centre of the image is sufficently sharp.
I will proceed in the next post with evidence.
oc_masta said:
I will proceed in the next post with evidence.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unless you have removed the lens cover from the housing and have taken photos to prove your theory that it's "crap" and then removed the lens and showed how it causes "softness/blur" I'm calling this out as a trolling exercise. I've made multiple comparison photos with my old HTC One X and my girlfriends Lumia 1020 and I can find nothing wrong with the camera. It compares very favourably with both.
Evidence A:
Here are 2 photos of some pebble dashing on a wall, which is great for checking sharpness.
Below are crops of the centre part photos taken with a LG G2 and Sony Z2.
The first is a LG G2 @ 13mp, the second is the Sony Z2 @ 20mp.
We can clearly see the G2 is sharp all around while Z2 starts to blur very quickly off centre in spots around the image. The lens isn't doing this sensor the justice it deserves.
The raw captures are available below for you to pixel peep yourselves.
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Evidence B:
Post #57 by Progosu.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2744006&page=6
Evidence C:
4k video comparison with G2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itr7VWBXu2k
Evidence D:
Reviewer @ 13:00 mentions issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7tQ5n32no8
I also think expectations need to be realistic. We're probably still in the range of 3 to 5 years before the cameras on these phones can approach the quality of DSLR or mirrorless units (hopefully we're even closer to when they can output raw files). Even then, unless someone comes up with something rather clever, we won't be seeing any decent optical zoom capabilities or the capacity for interchangeable lenses. But for most of us and for most circumstances, these phones do just fine. I can't imagine a professional photographer for Nat Geo (or any press org) is going to rely on their phone as their primary tool. The thousands of pictures that I've taken over the last 5+ years with a half dozen different phones wouldn't even exist, except for a few dozen maybe, if I didn't have my phone available and ready to use. Indeed I can do more and do better with my Canon, but other than road trip style vacations, it simply doesn't get used.
Slightly OT - Why ANY of these manufacturers put some type of protective sliding cover over the lens? What would that add to the cost of manufacture? A nickle?
THE LG G2
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm115/oc_masta/g2_a_zps0ceaefeb.jpg
THE SONY Z2
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm115/oc_masta/z2_a_zpse786db49.jpg
Don't get me wrong, the sensor is amazing. I don't understand why Sony would develop such a great sensor and pair it with such a bad lens.
I mean if Samsung and LG can incorporate super sharp lenses, Sony DEFINITELY can.
Sony have built a whole industry and reputation on camera equipment, I'm just disappointed they didn't use a sharper lens.
LG G2 is over-sharpened IMHO.. Likewise your "evidence" is also your opinion. Were both of the phones mounted in a tripod? Was OIS on the G2? There are so many variables that you can't account for this amounts to nothing but your opinion. So thanks for your opinion. Sheesh..
bombdog said:
LG G2 is over-sharpened IMHO.. Likewise your "evidence" is also your opinion. Were both of the phones mounted in a tripod? Was OIS on the G2? There are so many variables that you can't account for this amounts to nothing but your opinion. So thanks for your opinion. Sheesh..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both were stabilized to negate the effects of OIS.
I'm just presenting my test and conclusion, it isn't opinion once proven but feel free to believe whatever you like. I'm just presenting the facts and your presenting your opinion.
I love the Z2 regardless, everything is quality, including the sensor which is truly amazing, but the glass is letting it down.
oc_masta said:
Evidence A:
Here are 2 photos of some pebble dashing on a wall, which is great for checking sharpness.
Below are crops of the centre part photos taken with a LG G2 and Sony Z2.
The first is a LG G2 @ 13mp, the second is the Sony Z2 @ 20mp.
We can clearly see the G2 is sharp all around while Z2 starts to blur very quickly off centre in spots around the image. The lens isn't doing this sensor the justice it deserves at all.
The wholes images are available below for you to pixel peep yourselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've just come from a G2 to a Z2 and I can tell you that I'd take the Z2 every day of the week as my main shooter. G2's shutter speed is horrendous (yes I tried all the mods). Pictures of anything moving invariably comes out as a blurry mess.
oc_masta said:
Both were stabilized to negate the effects of OIS.
I'm just presenting my test and conclusion, it isn't opinion once proven but feel free to believe whatever you like. I'm just presenting the facts and your presenting your opinion.
I love the Z2 regardless, everything is quality, including the sensor which is truly amazing, but the glass is letting it down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, but two photos of a pebble dashed wall is not evidence that Sony's G Lens is crap. On my Z2 there are absolutely no issues with soft focus, it is pinsharp in macro and when taking photos of complex landscapes. By all means prove your theory by removing the lens glass from your G2 & Z2 and compare the quality with microscope. Until then, this is an opinion piece. Nothing more.
bombdog said:
I'm sorry, but two photos of a pebble dashed wall is not evidence that Sony's G Lens is crap. On my Z2 there are absolutely no issues with soft focus, it is pinsharp in macro and when taking photos of complex landscapes. By all means prove your theory by removing the lens glass from your G2 & Z2 and compare the quality with microscope. Until then, this is an opinion piece. Nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Um I'm sorry nobody tests lenses and cameras by your method. Your still stating your opinion.
I am trialling every camera I can without bias but I am liking the Z2 build feel and overall package alot more than any other phone.
oc_masta said:
Um I'm sorry nobody tests lenses and cameras by your method. Your still stating your opinion.
I am trialling every camera I can without bias but I am liking the Z2 build feel and overall package alot more than any other phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to talk about this anymore after this post as you don't seem to understand. There could be plenty of reasons your Z2 isn't focusing properly (software/hardware/contamination etc.), but you have stated that it's because Sony have used "crap" glass. The onus is on you to provide proof about this and you can't.
Why not get a few Z2's together and see if the issue is the same. No one else has gone out of their way to say "Why the Z2 camera sucks" and then said "probably the crap glass". Do you make lenses? What is the best type of glass to use? Enlighten us..
Well I'm heavily involved in the visual effects industry and photography. I know glass problems like most photographers do, evidently you do not.
All lenses are imperfect by nature and display certain issues. Softness is one and causes a loss of resolution.
That's why you tend to hear people rant how important a lens is over the camera itself. Not that I share that sentiment entirely, but this test did help me appreciate that a bit more.
The reason I say glass is, because the centre when zoomed is sharp (focussed), but further out it gets soft in certain areas. Like I had already stated.
Believe whatever you want and dispute it with your own test.
oc_masta said:
Well I'm heavily involved in the visual effects industry and photography. I know glass problems like most photographers do, evidently you do not.
All lenses are imperfect by nature and display certain issues. Softness is one and causes a loss of resolution.
That's why you tend to hear people rant how important a lens is over the camera itself. Not that I share that sentiment entirely, but this test did help me appreciate that a bit more.
The reason I say glass is, because the centre when zoomed is sharp (focussed), but further out it gets soft in certain areas. Like I had already stated.
Believe whatever you want and dispute it with your own test.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you think there is a possibility that your Z2 may have a defective lens?
I think what bombdog is trying to say (albeit a bit harsh) is that you need to have multiple test samples before jumping to conclusions. For instance, just because your Z2 had a bad lens does not mean all lens are bad.
If I were to do this test, I'd take a handful of XZ2, a G2, and an S5 then take shots of different scenery. If a majority of the Z2 shows a lack in sharpness then we can assume that the Z2 could have a bad lens.
By
oc_masta said:
Well I'm heavily involved in the visual effects industry and photography. I know glass problems like most photographers do, evidently you do not.
All lenses are imperfect by nature and display certain issues. Softness is one and causes a loss of resolution.
That's why you tend to hear people rant how important a lens is over the camera itself. Not that I share that sentiment entirely, but this test did help me appreciate that a bit more.
The reason I say glass is, because the centre when zoomed is sharp (focussed), but further out it gets soft in certain areas. Like I had already stated.
Believe whatever you want and dispute it with your own test.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I thibk other's mean is that maybe your device's glass cover is bad. Sure that may be Sony's fault or it could be bad handling from your part but I have a hard time believing that all the Z1/Z2 glass covers are as bad as yours. I for example have some pictures without blur on the edges and that for me makes this test nothing more than a test on an eventually faulty device(faulty glass cover maybe)
Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
HeartUnderBlade said:
Do you think there is a possibility that your Z2 may have a defective lens?
I think what bombdog is trying to say (albeit a bit harsh) is that you need to have multiple test samples before jumping to conclusions. For instance, just because your Z2 had a bad lens does not mean all lens are bad.
If I were to do this test, I'd take a handful of XZ2, a G2, and an S5 then take shots of different scenery. If a majority of the Z2 shows a lack in sharpness then we can assume that the Z2 could have a bad lens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a Z1 which exhibits the exact same issue you see, and they share the same camera. The only difference between the photos is an increase in filesize of the Z2 in comparison with the Z1 at the same 20mp resolution. This usually means less compression. A neat trick by Sony to increase photo quality with the same hardware.
The lens is inside the camera which consists of several pieces of glass layered on top of each other (polished, shaped and distorted). Lenses are very hard to make.
The outside is just a flat piece of glass to protect the REAL lens.
Look guys,
For the purists its an issue yes, for the general happy snappers, it is not. But I hope you would have liked to hear the facts instead of just being ignorant to them.
Its a great camera apart from the glass inside which could be better.
p.s. sharpness/detail isn't everything, this sensor itself beats anything else on offer in a phone and can only compare to the Lumia 1020 (which is my opinion).
I am very pleased with its dynamic range and ability to able to show detail in shadows and highlights (especially useful in 4k video).
oc_masta said:
Look guys,
For the purists its an issue yes, for the general happy snappers, it is not. But I hope you would have liked to hear the facts instead of just being ignorant to them.
Its a great camera apart from the glass inside which could be better.
p.s. sharpness/detail isn't everything, this sensor itself beats anything else on offer in a phone and can only compare to the Lumia 1020 (which is my opinion).
I am very pleased with its dynamic range and ability to able to show detail in shadows and highlights (especially useful in 4k video).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, I didn't come to take shots at you. I was just trying to interpret what Bombdog was saying so that you two could stop bickering like a married couple. No need to say I'm "ignorant" to the "facts".
I know exactly what you mean but you two don't seem to understand each other. Bombdog suggests you get more Z2 samples. On the other hand, you're going around saying these are facts when, unfortunately, they are not true facts. Bombdog is mostly right in that they are opinions (except the way he came off seemed very aggressive). Giving one sample and throwing around self-proclaimed certifications about being highly involved in photography does not suddenly make it a "fact." What you have here is a HYPOTHESIS not a fact.
Sorry, I did not mean to come off as being too aggressive but I came here to hear a discussion and if I'm going to get shots fired at me just because I happened to walk in at the wrong time then perhaps there wasn't going to be a discussion in the first place.
oc_masta said:
Look guys,
For the purists its an issue yes, for the general happy snappers, it is not. But I hope you would have liked to hear the facts instead of just being ignorant to them.
Its a great camera apart from the glass inside which could be better.
p.s. sharpness/detail isn't everything, this sensor itself beats anything else on offer in a phone and can only compare to the Lumia 1020 (which is my opinion).
I am very pleased with its dynamic range and ability to able to show detail in shadows and highlights (especially useful in 4k video).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you man...fully understand what you are talking about, but just don't keep trying to convince the fanboys that the Z2 has some issues because you're not getting to any result! They are too ignorant...
P.S: Z2 has a lousy mic, Z2 overheats and I also have proof!!! ...and I'm not a ****ing troll!!!
Devils Advocate
BTW if I came across as aggressive apologies..
I'm curious how many people see a pink patch in the middle of photos in certain lighting conditions. Can't tell if mine is better, worse or the same as everyone else's.
The "pink spot" seems pretty common with cellphones and I find that in certain conditions it's pretty evident in my Z3c photos -- the lighting is usually filtered sun and/or tungsten, the background a fairly light, neutral color, and the overall lighting is on the low side causing the camera to boost the sensor gain. It seems related to auto white balance because I can change the WB manually and watch the pink spot miraculously disappear, although that's not to say there's not also some lens/sensor problem. My Nexus 4 does the same thing, although that's the least of the problems with that crummy camera :laugh:
in case anyone's not aware of the issue, here's a report and examples from Xperia Blog: http://www.xperiablog.net/2014/10/27...g-in-pictures/
And here's the growing thread about it from Z3 owners on Sony's own support forum: https://talk.sonymobile.com/t5/Xperia-Z3-Z3-Dual/Pink-spot-with-xperia-z3-camera/td-p/839421
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pipspeak said:
I'm curious how many people see a pink patch in the middle of photos in certain lighting conditions. Can't tell if mine is better, worse or the same as everyone else's.
The "pink spot" seems pretty common with cellphones and I find that in certain conditions it's pretty evident in my Z3c photos -- the lighting is usually filtered sun and/or tungsten, the background a fairly light, neutral color, and the overall lighting is on the low side causing the camera to boost the sensor gain. It seems related to auto white balance because I can change the WB manually and watch the pink spot miraculously disappear, although that's not to say there's not also some lens/sensor problem. My Nexus 4 does the same thing, although that's the least of the problems with that crummy camera :laugh:
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Click to collapse
I have no idea what on earth you are talking about.
Try providing an image as an example maybe?
I'll take some pics tomorrow, but just Google "xperia pink spot" and you'll see what I'm talking about
Stevles said:
I have no idea what on earth you are talking about.
Try providing an image as an example maybe?
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Click to collapse
http://www.xperiablog.net/2014/10/2...porting-issues-with-pink-shading-in-pictures/
FYI, my camera is fine even with white backgrounds, no pink spot at all.
adamk7 said:
http://www.xperiablog.net/2014/10/2...porting-issues-with-pink-shading-in-pictures/
FYI, my camera is fine even with white backgrounds, no pink spot at all.
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Click to collapse
White backgrounds are not a problem with mine, either. The white balance has an easier time with white. It's the off-white colors that generate the pink spot for me -- light gray, beige etc. and only in low-light daylight settings such as indoors with no artificial light. In full daylight outside the same colors have no pink spot evident.
Maybe some cameras really don't have a problem, or perhaps some people just don't happen to experience the same lighting combinations as others. It would be nice if Sony could comment, however. So far their only advice is "set the white balance manually", which is not really much of a solution.
adamk7 said:
http://www.xperiablog.net/2014/10/2...porting-issues-with-pink-shading-in-pictures/
FYI, my camera is fine even with white backgrounds, no pink spot at all.
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Click to collapse
pipspeak said:
White backgrounds are not a problem with mine, either. The white balance has an easier time with white. It's the off-white colors that generate the pink spot for me -- light gray, beige etc. and only in low-light daylight settings such as indoors with no artificial light. In full daylight outside the same colors have no pink spot evident.
Maybe some cameras really don't have a problem, or perhaps some people just don't happen to experience the same lighting combinations as others. It would be nice if Sony could comment, however. So far their only advice is "set the white balance manually", which is not really much of a solution.
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Click to collapse
If we could get the OP updated with that link, that would be great
Not that big a deal, it just makes a lot more sense to provide details in the OP as opposed to having to scroll down.
By the way, I'm experiencing this too under certain circumstances (new phone and hardly used the camera so far until I tested it on my rug a minute ago)
Shots added.
By the way the one with a shot of my pool is just because it looks gorgeous, it doesn't actually have a pink dot. So I guess you could say it is an example of when it doesn't happen lol
The one looking at the mat on an angle is showing the middle part of the mat without the pink dot, to show the proper colour.
This is not problem of the camera. The Camera is Perfect.
This happened because you use Superior Auto with the flash off and you got a big ISO metering (maybe 12800).
You have to lower the ISO in manual mode and play with the other settings to get the proper image.
The big ISO is ideal when you shoot in low light conditions in order to get the less noise possible.
Like here:
http://www.martinbaileyphotography.com/2013/07/29/why-expose-to-the-right-podcast-381/
or here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGr_hXgJVGs
The Big ISO is not for shooting the dark walls of your rooms!
Katsigaros said:
See my post here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=56670432&postcount=9
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Click to collapse
It looks like that thread is about the font camera, not the main one. The problem with the main camera that's causing the issue is white balance, which has been acknowledged by Sony (and my own tests). I'm sure high ISO also plays a part by boosting the sensor gain and amplifying any problems, but the point is that "intelligent" auto mode and the white balance algorithm should handle this far better.
Of course, if Sony were to give us the option for RAW files with the next update then this point might become moot
pipspeak said:
It looks like that thread is about the font camera, not the main one. The problem with the main camera that's causing the issue is white balance, which has been acknowledged by Sony (and my own tests). I'm sure high ISO also plays a part by boosting the sensor gain and amplifying any problems, but the point is that "intelligent" auto mode and the white balance algorithm should handle this far better.
Of course, if Sony were to give us the option for RAW files with the next update then this point might become moot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes i was meaning the main camera. I edited my post. I
From the tests i have made i believe that this issue happens only when you have big ISO level and fast shutter speed, and not by white balance.
But in manual mode you always get better results than superior auto without resulting to these issues.
You only have to experiment with 4 settings:
1) White Balance
2) EV Settings
3) ISO
4) Metering
There's definitely a color spot in the middle, color differs and it's always there (no matter iso, auto, manual, wb...)
Just received my handset and instead of a pink spot per say, mine is exhibiting a yellow spot that gradually turns into pink.... the camera quality of this phone is appalling.
dlau77 said:
Just received my handset and instead of a pink spot per say, mine is exhibiting a yellow spot that gradually turns into pink.... the camera quality of this phone is appalling.
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't say the camera on it is appalling.. I would say thej software is. If you set it to manual mode and adjust the white balance you can get rid of it. I recommend an app like pro capture as it has a lot of manual settings. I really do think it's the software though because I can get much better ffc pics if I use pro capture and can get rid of the pink spot even with the sony software. I took one selfie with the sony software and it too had a purple hue (think m7) but then I used pro capture and no purple tint at all.
graffixnyc said:
I wouldn't say the camera on it is appalling.. I would say thej software is. If you set it to manual mode and adjust the white balance you can get rid of it. I recommend an app like pro capture as it has a lot of manual settings. I really do think it's the software though because I can get much better ffc pics if I use pro capture and can get rid of the pink spot even with the sony software. I took one selfie with the sony software and it too had a purple hue (think m7) but then I used pro capture and no purple tint at all.
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Click to collapse
I've downloaded the free version of ProCamera and tried using multiple combinations of settings in manual and essentially, if I take a snap on a plain white background, the pink spot is really obvious. On my iPod touch 5th gen, there is no pink spot. However, on my iPhone 4 (4-5 years old now), there is.
No matter what camera app I use, the temperamental nature of the camera makes the camera appalling. The fact that Sony simply doesn't say anything about clear software/hardware issues, means consumers have no confidence that a 'fix', if indeed it can be fixed, is forthcoming.
This level of hardware/software algorithms is simply not acceptable for a 2014 flagship device that brags so much about its imaging capabilities.
This, and with the constant face blur mode on the front-facing camera that simply doesn't turn off, is a deal breaker.
Just a friendly little bump for this thread... I've actually had a replacement handset delivered and it still exhibits this really obvious 'yellow circle/fade out into pink' issue.
I tried all the sample phones around town and none of them were as obvious/never even had the issue. However, they were also running earlier software... think it ended in 93(?)
My Sony is currently on 23.0.A.2.105 (14W44)
If anyone else has this build number, can you please double check if there is a yellow blob in the middle of all pictures? (Really stands out on anything white)
******UPDATE WITH EXAMPLE PICTURES******
http://i59.tinypic.com/24ydaap.jpg
dlau77 said:
Just a friendly little bump for this thread... I've actually had a replacement handset delivered and it still exhibits this really obvious 'yellow circle/fade out into pink' issue.
I tried all the sample phones around town and none of them were as obvious/never even had the issue. However, they were also running earlier software... think it ended in 93(?)
My Sony is currently on 23.0.A.2.105 (14W44)
If anyone else has this build number, can you please double check if there is a yellow blob in the middle of all pictures? (Really stands out on anything white)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The newer firmware must have changed the blob to yellow! I'm on 23.0.A.2.93 and have the pink blob.
pipspeak said:
The newer firmware must have changed the blob to yellow! I'm on 23.0.A.2.93 and have the pink blob.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried getting this issue fixed in any way?
I voted "never noticed it" on the poll, because in regular day to day use this has never come up. However, when I took a photo of my walls and ceiling (off white and white, respectively), there is a very slight spot in the center of the frame.
However, as soon as you introduce a non-neutral subject, of any kind (I used a whiteboard with text, a notice board, a silver down light), the issue disappears. I can't imagine many real world scenarios where you're going to be taking a photo of a single tone background with no colours for the software to balance greys from, isn't this a bit of a non-issue?
andycore said:
I voted "never noticed it" on the poll, because in regular day to day use this has never come up. However, when I took a photo of my walls and ceiling (off white and white, respectively), there is a very slight spot in the center of the frame.
However, as soon as you introduce a non-neutral subject, of any kind (I used a whiteboard with text, a notice board, a silver down light), the issue disappears. I can't imagine many real world scenarios where you're going to be taking a photo of a single tone background with no colours for the software to balance greys from, isn't this a bit of a non-issue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can I ask what firmware your phone is currently running?
What you say kind of holds some truth in my situation as it is definitly more noticeable on neutral coloured backgrounds. However, it is also noticeable in other photos and I think my 2nd unit is worse than the first one!
I have the same issue with pink spot. On the picture, you can see that pink spot can be spotted on black background also. I think it depends on light conditions. I really love this phone but im worried about this.
I understand that the Z5 has a wider field of view than other phones, e.g. my Samsung Galaxy S5. But the problem is that the distortion in the corners is rather ridiculous.
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My spherical exercise ball looks like a f'in egg. What's the point of a wider lens if things in the corner are so badly distorted? Here's the picture in full distorted glory.
Here is a comparison with the Samsung Galaxy S5:
How do people correct for this?
Do you crop the image, correct in Photoshop, or just ignore? PTLens doesn't have lens information for any Xperia devices.
I wanted kind of the same answers and I was told to buy new phone basically... Oh well
I was gona make a thread abt this, i am also a former user of galaxy s5 ( n still use it as back up) the 16mp camera on the s5 is day and night better, my s5 atleast never had blurr watsoever, and the black was black ( specaily in dark shot) but on the z5 anything shot gotta be blurred ( well shooting 1080 gets me more details when i zoom than the 23mp stillshots) oh and in dark stillshots u gota have the blueish black. Seriously sony ?
Am not a photographer by any means or really use my fone to take lots of pics , but u kno when u get a good scene that u have to atleast take one pic for good memories? Well the z5 fails u big time.
Ps i dont have any kind of distortion on my z5, however the noise and the blurr ruin the whole 23mp thingy, manual mode is a joke bcuz the camera just goes crazy in 1st place if there is anything black or blue in dark shots
Vcaddy said:
Ps i dont have any kind of distortion on my z5
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Click to collapse
Are you sure you don't have any kind of distortion on your Z5? Try taking a picture of a row of windows that looks like a grid (like this), and see what you get.
I ran a monitor test and took a photo of that.
Is the result bad enough to ask for a replacement Z5 or should I just accept it as a feature?
Apparently i didnt play with camera as much u hence i never noticed the distortion, yes i can confirm that i have the same distortion on every corner of the camera, its even visible without taking a picture. Is this how the wider lens should be ? As i dont think all our z5 cameras r broken
I noticed the distortion as soon as I took my first picture. It really bothers me. On top of that you can see how black objects come out blue in low light. Very disappointed. The front right stove burner is considerably smaller than that back left. In one picture they look the same size.
You can see in the first picture the actual size of the furthest burners. The closest two are the same difference in size from one another. They look the same.
I would say there is nothing that cant be fixed with a firmware update from sony as i dont think the camera is the problem here but rather its firmware
As a DLSR photographer, this is the kind of thing you get with such a wide angle lens--it requires very large and expensive lenses to get around (like the Canon L series) so I wouldn't worry about it. If it bothers you that much, then take a picture in the 8MP mode and zoom in so the phone crops out the corners.
Alternatively, you can profile the distortion of the lens and then apply correction in post-processing, but day-to-day shots don't warrant this level of obsession.
More pictures of Z5 corner distortion
sovanyio said:
As a DLSR photographer, this is the kind of thing you get with such a wide angle lens--it requires very large and expensive lenses to get around (like the Canon L series) so I wouldn't worry about it. If it bothers you that much, then take a picture in the 8MP mode and zoom in so the phone crops out the corners.
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Click to collapse
Doing that every time I take a picture is a pain and defeats the purpose of having a dedicated camera key to take photos fast.
sovanyio said:
Alternatively, you can profile the distortion of the lens and then apply correction in post-processing,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done that sort of thing for regular camera pictures, but my question is:
With this much processor power in the phone, why doesn't it automatically apply this correction? If you say "for performance", I'll counter with:
the camera's hardware could have highly optimized code for correcting the distortion, since its parameters are known
correction could be queued and done by software after the photos are taken
sovanyio said:
but day-to-day shots don't warrant this level of obsession.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough, unless ordinary shots look downright comical. I've had smartphones before and am aware of the problem (see my comparison with the S5 above), but it never really bothered me. With the Z5, it does. The distortion is kind of "in your face", and not easy to ignore. Make the pictures look badly Photoshopped:
Try taking a picture of a group of people and it will look closer to the last pic from the page.
Anyway, here are more Z5 shots illustrating the distortion. This one shows both the pincushion and left-side blur:
dandv said:
Doing that every time I take a picture is a pain and defeats the purpose of having a dedicated camera key to take photos fast.
I've done that sort of thing for regular camera pictures, but my question is:
With this much processor power in the phone, why doesn't it automatically apply this correction? If you say "for performance", I'll counter with:
the camera's hardware could have highly optimized code for correcting the distortion, since its parameters are known
correction could be queued and done by software after the photos are taken
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I, for one, prefer that my original shots are not processed beyond the camera's noise reduction algorithms. But its a fair point, they could enable this in settings. But that would require user configuration since each phone/lens combination will have unique lens calibration values--something that is probably too top heavy for the manufacturing process.
The thing that bothers me the most is the blue tint on the edges of photos in low light. What is up with that?
Also, if I cover the lens entirely with my hand and take a photo of the blackness, there is heavy blue tint on the edges, particularly on the left side..
xevious_ said:
The thing that bothers me the most is the blue tint on the edges of photos in low light. What is up with that?
Also, if I cover the lens entirely with my hand and take a photo of the blackness, there is heavy blue tint on the edges, particularly on the left side..
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Click to collapse
I, too, left side blue, wants to try to change the camera module.
vyshgorado said:
I, too, left side blue, wants to try to change the camera module.
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Click to collapse
It's call "left hand blur issue".no word from Sony regarding this!!!!!it's a hardware issue on most of
The z5 families..only option is to change the camera module..
dandv said:
I understand that the Z5 has a wider field of view than other phones, e.g. my Samsung Galaxy S5. But the problem is that the distortion in the corners is rather ridiculous.
My spherical exercise ball looks like a f'in egg. What's the point of a wider lens if things in the corner are so badly distorted? Here's the picture in full distorted glory.
Here is a comparison with the Samsung Galaxy S5:
How do people correct for this?
Do you crop the image, correct in Photoshop, or just ignore? PTLens doesn't have lens information for any Xperia devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Common on all lenses, even $5,000 and upward lenses have more blur at the edges than the centre. Worse on wide angle lenses.
I am guessing the Sony Lens is;
1. A faster lens (f stops)
2. Wider angle.
Yep and yep on both counts, sure enough
Z5 23 MP, f/2.0, 24mm
16 MP, f/2.2, 31mm
dodo1515 said:
It's call "left hand blur issue".no word from Sony regarding this!!!!!it's a hardware issue on most of
The z5 families..only option is to change the camera module..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you go about changing the camera module? Do I have to get a replacement phone?
xevious_ said:
How do you go about changing the camera module? Do I have to get a replacement phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check those links for your answer:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/sony-mobile-problems-camera-z5-family-t3262292
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/im-doing-tally-z5-series-affected-left-t3242302
dodo1515 said:
Check those links for your answer:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/sony-mobile-problems-camera-z5-family-t3262292
http://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-z5/general/im-doing-tally-z5-series-affected-left-t3242302
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Click to collapse
I am in the USA (New York), so I don't think there's any service center I can visit for this blue tint issue..
xevious_ said:
I am in the USA (New York), so I don't think there's any service center I can visit for this blue tint issue..
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Click to collapse
Me too l can't return it l have both z5 and premium with the same issue..
L'm just hoping that it's can be adjusted with a software update...
vyshgorado said:
I, too, left side blue, wants to try to change the camera module.
dodo1515 said:
It's call "left hand blur issue".no word from Sony regarding this!!!!!it's a hardware issue on most of
The z5 families..only option is to change the camera module..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The blue color at the edges in dark shots is perfectly avoidable by using manual mode with the night scene program. It occurs mainly in superior auto.
It has nothing to do with blur of any kind. It's failed post processing I think.