Database Users

[S4 mini: GT-I9195] Knox warranty void 0x1 – all downsides

Hey guys,
I've read lots of articles about Knox and the whole eFuse thing but the more I read the more unsure I get about rooting my S4 mini. Because of this and because I think you don't get any S4s without "activated" Knox Bootloader anymore I thought it would be helpful for all S4 mini owners (and maybe all Knox device owners in general) to list all downsides and also rumors about "blowing the eFuse" to hopefully take away some of the fears.
I think it's already clear that you could loose your warranty if you got a 0x1 flag. Which doesn't seem to affect EU people But anyway, I'd rather like to get a list of all the irreversible consequences with your device itself when rooting etc:
:: EDITED & ADDED SOME QUESTIONS ::
The answers in green = positive or red = negative show the current state according to the replies in here, If you have other experiences please let us know.
[ROOTING tripping KNOX 0x1]
Are there any irreversible malfunctions when rooting your device (especially the GT-I9195) and turning to "knox warranty void 0x1"?
Are all (pre-installed) apps - except the Knox apps - still working as they should on rooted stock roms (s-apps, cam, calendar,..)?
[GOING BACK TO DEFAULT FACTORY STATUS]
Regarding the software only:
can you go back to 100% factory status (unrooted, stock etc) with a "Knox Warranty Void 0x1?
- Yes, according to iPAQS4 you can go back with no malfunctions
Do you get the Knox warnings again?
No, according to iPAQS4
Are there any other app or system malfunctions?
- No
Is it true that OTA updates won't work anymore once you tripped your knox flag?
- No, according to iPAQS4 they still work
Is it possible to get official updates via Kies / USB cable still?
- Yes, according to iPAQS4
[FAILURES ROOTING, KNOX]
Regarding the Knox environment only, not self-caused rooting failures:
can there else go anything wrong that can't be undone like breaking important hardware?
or is there a higher chance to brick your device with Knox than without?
is an intact eFuse required by some other hardware (NFC, etc)?
Are there any other known problems/downsides?
Here is an interesting article about all myths & truths about Knox. It's very informative and also answers a few of my questions: http://androidforums.com/boost-mobi...t/807188-guide-q-myths-truths-about-knox.html

Honky-Tonk said:
Hey guys,
I've read lots of articles about Knox and the whole eFuse thing but the more I read the more unsure I get about rooting my S4 mini. Because of this and because I think you don't get any S4s without "activated" Knox Bootloader anymore I thought it would be helpful for all S4 mini owners (and maybe all Knox device owners in general) to list all downsides and also rumors about "blowing the eFuse" to hopefully take away some of the fears.
I think it's already clear that you can loose your warranty if you got a 0x1 flag. But I'd rather like to get a list of all the irreversivble consequences with your device itself when rooting etc:
Can you go back to stock Rom (un-rooted) with a "Knox Warranty Void 0x1"? And with which problems do you have to deal (software warnings, malfunctions...)?
Can you still get official Samsung updates via Kies or over unofficial channels?
Are there any known hardware or software malfunctions because of the broken eFuse?
Are there any other known problems/downsides?
@ all_experienced_owners: would you still recommend rooting a Knox device or breaking the eFuse?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you flash stock ROM (XXUBML1 for example) via Odin, the System Status will turn back to Official but of course the Knox flag remains 0x1.
Kies will also recognize your phone.
I don't know whether Kies/OTA updates will work, I never used/saw them.
If you don't care about warranty I recommend rooting

ladislav.heller said:
If you flash stock ROM (XXUBML1 for example) via Odin, the System Status will turn back to Official but of course the Knox flag remains 0x1.
Kies will also recognize your phone.
I don't know whether Kies/OTA updates will work, I never used/saw them.
If you don't care about warranty I recommend rooting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to other posts OTA updates won't work anymore, unfortunately. Does anyone else know if updates via Kies/ USB cable will still work?
Have there been any Knox warnings when going back to stock again? It always says to disable all Knox apps once you have rooted your phone but back on un-rooted stock this is not possible, I guess?! So I think you will get these warnings again, don't you?

[bump] edited and added some questions!

Honky-Tonk said:
According to other posts OTA updates won't work anymore, unfortunately. Does anyone else know if updates via Kies/ USB cable will still work?
Have there been any Knox warnings when going back to stock again? It always says to disable all Knox apps once you have rooted your phone but back on un-rooted stock this is not possible, I guess?! So I think you will get these warnings again, don't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Updates via Kies/ USB cable will still work.
Going back to stock is posible whitout extra knox warnings. Knox will behave as before.

iPAQS4 said:
Updates via Kies/ USB cable will still work.
Going back to stock is posible whitout extra knox warnings. Knox will behave as before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds great, so you can always go back to original phone status (except your Bootloader and the OTA updates)? Just to make sure: you tripped Knox warranty void to 0x1, right?
What about rooted status (stock rom), did you notice any malfunctions with any apps, especially the s-apps?
Which rooting method did you use?
Thx

Honky-Tonk said:
I think it's already clear that you can loose your warranty if you got a 0x1 flag. But I'd rather like to get a list of all the irreversivble consequences with your device itself when rooting etc:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not if you're in the EU. Under legislation, companies aren't allowed to void a warranty because of a software change etc (eg if a piece of hardware fails, they can't turn around and say you rooted your phone so you're not covered).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801

You can use this method to root with out trip the Knox flag: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2565758
I've tried it on mine i9190 without any issue.

Honky-Tonk said:
Sounds great, so you can always go back to original phone status (except your Bootloader and the OTA updates)? Just to make sure: you tripped Knox warranty void to 0x1, right?
What about rooted status (stock rom), did you notice any malfunctions with any apps, especially the s-apps?
Which rooting method did you use?
Thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When you go back to original phone status OTA updates will olso work and there are no malfunctions with any apps.

iPAQS4 said:
When you go back to original phone status OTA updates will olso work and there are no malfunctions with any apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really ??
i updated once via kies to the latest firmware and my gt-i9195 was useless, could not turn on wifi and it was lagging a lot and etc...
so i needed to flash it back to my previus firmware version...

nibb-1 said:
really ??
i updated once via kies to the latest firmware and my gt-i9195 was useless, could not turn on wifi and it was lagging a lot and etc...
so i needed to flash it back to my previus firmware version...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I unrooted my phone by flashing it with the original firmware with odin and than wipe data/ factory reset in recovery mode.
After that my phone had a ota from MJ7 to ML4.

If you recently bought the phone, I don't recommend rooting (although I rooted the phone the same day I bought it) If you really don't care about the warranty and the OTA updates, root your phone. I literally can do nothing without root.
As we heard today, our S4 Mini will update to 4.4.2 so I don't recommend rooting until it is out so you cqn get the OTA update.
Press THANKS if I helped!

Sky91 said:
Not if you're in the EU. Under legislation, companies aren't allowed to void a warranty because of a software change etc (eg if a piece of hardware fails, they can't turn around and say you rooted your phone so you're not covered).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good to know, thank's a lot

Sky91 said:
Not if you're in the EU. Under legislation, companies aren't allowed to void a warranty because of a software change etc (eg if a piece of hardware fails, they can't turn around and say you rooted your phone so you're not covered).
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1998801
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx, yes that makes sense. I've also read a few articles about the warranty facts and always wondered why sellers can refuse warranty just because of the "wrong" software. I mean I never heard of anything like that with personal computers, notebooks etc. Would be very interesting, though if a mainboard manufacturer doesn't give warranty and claims that Windows, OSX, Linux etc destroyed it because you used it as an Admin . So actually I think, this regulation should apply world wide not only in the EU.
But we should keep in mind that warranty is not the same as guaranty which is probably really gone with a void 0x1 flag?! However it's great (at least for European people) to have a last hope in mind!
But the reason I wanted to list all downsides is to make sure that you can also root Knox system without any hesitation - to keep the fun for rooting so to say
iPAQS4 said:
I unrooted my phone by flashing it with the original firmware with odin and than wipe data/ factory reset in recovery mode.
After that my phone had a ota from MJ7 to ML4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just found this article about all myths & truths about Knox http://androidforums.com/boost-mobi...t/807188-guide-q-myths-truths-about-knox.html
It's very informative but I'm now confused again because the Article says that you can't use Knox apps anymore, once you tripped the flag:
"[...]If the KNOX warranty void line says 0x1 then you cannot use KNOX software as your device has been flagged as insecure.[...]"
Does this only concern additional Knox Apps not the default ones which produce the warning messages? Or are the Knox Apps just no installed anymore when going back on a 0x1 device or kind of deactivated by default? Could you check that?
RoyaLKurTx3 said:
If you recently bought the phone, I don't recommend rooting (although I rooted the phone the same day I bought it) If you really don't care about the warranty and the OTA updates, root your phone. I literally can do nothing without root.
As we heard today, our S4 Mini will update to 4.4.2 so I don't recommend rooting until it is out so you cqn get the OTA update.
Press THANKS if I helped!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx, I personally don't care about warranty. So this was really rather meant to only treat the functional downsides if there are any at all. I wanted to make sure to not have a trash phone with lots of battery drain or even worse: some irreversible hardware malfunctions after rooting. I'm also looking forward to KitKat but I doubt that the update will remove Knox again since even the army is already working together with Samsung now!
But according to iPAQS4 you can't do so much wrong with rooting (regarding the Knox environment of course)?!

Honky-Tonk said:
Thx, yes that makes sense. I've also read a few articles about the warranty facts and always wondered why sellers can refuse warranty just because of the "wrong" software. I mean I never heard of anything like that with personal computers, notebooks etc. Would be very interesting, though if a mainboard manufacturer doesn't give warranty and claims that Windows, OSX, Linux etc destroyed it because you used it as an Admin . So actually I think, this regulation should apply world wide not only in the EU.
But we should keep in mind that warranty is not the same as guaranty which is probably really gone with a void 0x1 flag?! However it's great (at least for European people) to have a last hope in mind!
But the reason I wanted to list all downsides is to make sure that you can also root Knox system without any hesitation - to keep the fun for rooting so to say
I just found this article about all myths & truths about Knox http://androidforums.com/boost-mobi...t/807188-guide-q-myths-truths-about-knox.html
It's very informative but I'm now confused again because the Article says that you can't use Knox apps anymore, once you tripped the flag:
"[...]If the KNOX warranty void line says 0x1 then you cannot use KNOX software as your device has been flagged as insecure.[...]"
Does this only concern additional Knox Apps not the default ones which produce the warning messages? Or are the Knox Apps just no installed anymore when going back on a 0x1 device or kind of deactivated by default? Could you check that?
Thx, I personally don't care about warranty. So this was really rather meant to only treat the functional downsides if there are any at all. I wanted to make sure to not have a trash phone with lots of battery drain or even worse: some irreversible hardware malfunctions after rooting. I'm also looking forward to KitKat but I doubt that the update will remove Knox again since even the army is already working together with Samsung now!
But according to iPAQS4 you can't do so much wrong with rooting (regarding the Knox environment of course)?!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will flash a new ROM and I'll see if the KNOX stays like it was. But I'll do that later today or tomorrow.
Press THANKS if I helped!

Honky-Tonk said:
I just found this article about all myths & truths about Knox
It's very informative but I'm now confused again because the Article says that you can't use Knox apps anymore, once you tripped the flag:
"[...]If the KNOX warranty void line says 0x1 then you cannot use KNOX software as your device has been flagged as insecure.[...]"
Does this only concern additional Knox Apps not the default ones which produce the warning messages? Or are the Knox Apps just no installed anymore when going back on a 0x1 device or kind of deactivated by default? Could you check that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According myths & truths about Knox
If the KNOX warranty void line says 0x1 then you cannot use KNOX software as your device has been flagged as insecure. By this I mean that if your workplace / company supports bring your own device to work for corporate emails etc and they use KNOX to keep security your device will not allow this. You are still able to use future Samsung firmware releases with the KNOX flag 0x1.

Confirmed. If you flash a new ROM TWICE, your KNOX counter will get 0x0. It will look like it is new.
Press THANKS if I helped!

RoyaLKurTx3 said:
Confirmed. If you flash a new ROM TWICE, your KNOX counter will get 0x0. It will look like it is new.
Press THANKS if I helped!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is your phone knox previously tripped 0x1 and when you flash new rom twice become 0x0 ? thanks

rnbeez said:
Is your phone knox previously tripped 0x1 and when you flash new rom twice become 0x0 ? thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep.
Press THANKS if I helped!

RoyaLKurTx3 said:
Yep.
Press THANKS if I helped!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wiered it needs more researching .. mate knox flag is nearly impossible to reset and you are sayin flashing a stock rom twice fixes it !!

[Q] Knox 0x1 tripped last night: Implications?

Hi everyone,
I purchased a second hand Note 3 N9005 recently and have managed to trip the Knox flag to 0x1. Now from everything im reading i think i can come to the following conclusions:
1.It MAY affect Samsung warranty repairs as i have seen some people have their phones fixed and some sent back (I dont have any warranty anyway as the phone is second hand)
2. It WONT affect me updating to any other ROMS moving forward? whether Custom or official with KNOX.
3. I cant use the KNOX App that comes on the Note 3
4. I CAN use the built in OTA software update on the ROM if it is stock and device status is official.
The main thing im concerned with is updating in the future to stock roms - are there any issues with this that we know of? As i cant find information directly linked to that query.
Am i correct in these 4 conclusions?
Are there any other benefits of having Xnox 0x0 over 0x1 that i have missed?
Thanks

All you said is correct.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

So... Where's this Knox thing??

Hey all,
I have an s5 on EE in the UK.
Heard about this Knox security software. It shows in my list of installed apps yet I can't seem to locate where it is?
Also debating root... Not sure if it's worth it, but did want to have a look at Knox.
Thanks

PIzzimperfect said:
Hey all,
I have an s5 on EE in the UK.
Heard about this Knox security software. It shows in my list of installed apps yet I can't seem to locate where it is?
Also debating root... Not sure if it's worth it, but did want to have a look at Knox.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
knox is a security implemented by samsung, it is active in the background, has no app for that. basically it "protects" samsung warranty better than the triangle in download mode witch shows how many imes you flashed, if you had roted ur device, in download mode will show u have 0x1 warranty voided.<---- thats basically KNOX.
Sent from my SM-G900H using XDA Free mobile app

Ahh ok.. Thank you.
Wow Samsung, you suck.

PIzzimperfect said:
Ahh ok.. Thank you.
Wow Samsung, you suck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are in the UK so Knox doesn't void your warranty once tripped

DSA said:
you are in the UK so Knox doesn't void your warranty once tripped
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I check my insurance which I took out for my phone when I got it. They state that modifying or rooting will make my insurance void. How annoying. Is there some legality involved?
Thanks!

fenchai said:
knox is a security implemented by samsung, it is active in the background, has no app for that. basically it "protects" samsung warranty better than the triangle in download mode witch shows how many imes you flashed, if you had roted ur device, in download mode will show u have 0x1 warranty voided.<---- thats basically KNOX.
Sent from my SM-G900H using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. ^
KNOX is a security container -> a place where you install apps inside a secure container that cannot be tampered with on a high level TrustZone security algorithm.
It's great that the person above said what it essentially does to your device, but what he explained above is what happens when the TrustZone between the software and the hardware is breached during root/downgrade/unsigned flashing. This essentially would allow the viewer of the KNOX status to know when the device does not trust it's own body with secure enterprise level apps (Application Integrity), hence the KNOX warranty bit will be set from 0x0 to 0x1 meaning "I will not ever run a secure container anymore".
You won't find KNOX 2.0 on your device as this is now a paid service for enterprises at a rate of $3.60 and it is only set up on your device when you have the KNOX 2.0 kit deployed on your device, unlike KNOX 1.0 where you get to enter KNOX mode anytime you want.

[Q] What happen after knox trigger

I have been searching for this answer for sometime.
Not sure where else I can look for, but I really want to know what happen (besides warranty issue) after knox trigger.
Is there anything that will happen to the phone beside the 0x0 and 0x1?
Can I still use VPN?
Can I still encrypt my sdcard and internal storage?
Basically, I need to know what is the difference between a triggered Note 3 and a non triggered Note 3.
Sorry if there is another post on this out there cause I really can't find it.
Thank you all in advance.

siregorash said:
I have been searching for this answer for sometime.
Not sure where else I can look for, but I really want to know what happen (besides warranty issue) after knox trigger.
Is there anything that will happen to the phone beside the 0x0 and 0x1?
Can I still use VPN?
Can I still encrypt my sdcard and internal storage?
Basically, I need to know what is the difference between a triggered Note 3 and a non triggered Note 3.
Sorry if there is another post on this out there cause I really can't find it.
Thank you all in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im not an expert but as far as i know you wont get ota updates or be able to use knox
i recently trigged knox and truth be told ... im having way too much fun with my note 3 n9005 and its getting way better ....
u can do more things if u installed a custom recovery and a kernel ... just read more threads about note 3 kernels and what they can do
note : flashing custom recovery or kernel will trip knox

3azmeo said:
im not an expert but as far as i know you wont get ota updates or be able to use knox
i recently trigged knox and truth be told ... im having way too much fun with my note 3 n9005 and its getting way better ....
u can do more things if u installed a custom recovery and a kernel ... just read more threads about note 3 kernels and what they can do
note : flashing custom recovery or kernel will trip knox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still own a S2 and I used to heavily mod it. I understand the feeling of rooting and not able to root.
I just want to know what is the difference between triggered and non triggered Note 3.
I am not sure why everyone is so worried about the warranty and how to fix the triggered flag.
I actually don't give a beep about the warranty and how to fix the flag.
As long as it doesn't affect the STOCK ANDROID functions (eg. VPN, sdcard encryption, internal storage encryption), I will be pretty fine with it.
The problem is, I am not able to find detailed explanation on what will happen to the phone after knox triggered.

Only affect is that you won't be able to use knox container anymore. Knox is a seperate enviroment to run your knox enabled apps. You still be able to get F/OTA updates and it DOES NOT void your device warranty.

NOTHING!! Despite Samdungs insistence that your warranty is void, your phone will be liberated!!
To me, this is a **** up by Samdung by alienating a large number of customers who, like myself, will NOT be buying another samsung after being a loyal customer for years!!
All manufacturers seem to be throwing some kind of spanner in the works for us who enjoy using our phones to their full potential.

Thank you guys so much for explaining.

[Q] General inquiry about KNOX and FW types

Hello all,
I searched the forums round and round, and couldn't find my answers so I hope you will be able to help me out.
i'm looking for a new phone and decided I want to go with the S5. that was before i learned about KNOX and it's wonderful ways.
i'm a heavy modder, who will most definitely use a custom recovery and ROM/kernel.
my questions are:
1. would it be possible to flash a custom recovery / rom / kernel / modem despite KNOX being preset?
2. other then getting this 0x1 and voiding my official warranty, are there any other result to this? will something not work?
3. assuming I get an unlocked international phone, is there any need to mess/change my FW? or is that just part of guides for rooting without tripping KNOX ?
Basically, I want to be sure that I could do whatever I want to the phone without getting stuck or turning it unusable because of KNOX. my current phone is a Nexus 4 and it has been heaven. I want to preserve this feeling
thanks for the help guys, appreciate it!

Did you tried Towelroot method for rooting your device? I heard that doesn't trigger knox..

I would imagine my rooting the phone is the least of my worries.
as far as I know - and this is one of my questions - flashing a custom recovery and or rom will 100% trip KNOX.
not that I care, I just need to know if this is true..and my other questions as well
thanks!

A brief answer
If you - as you say "i'm a heavy modder" Samsung phones are not for you

I've heard tales of people having issues flashing modems when knox is triggered. I have not checked that out for myself Joe have I searched any further into the matter.
I plan on breaking knox soon though because screw knox.
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

chainbr3ak said:
A brief answer
If you - as you say "i'm a heavy modder" Samsung phones are not for you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This answer really worries me to be honest.
could you elaborate?
I don't really care about KNOX, and as long as I can mod away and jump back and forth between modems/roms/kernels - I don't care for the warranty.
If indeed there is truth in the matter, and modem flashing will become a problem if KNOX is tripped, then this would be a deal breaker for me on this phone.
anyone care to add more info here?

Amornik said:
This answer really worries me to be honest.
could you elaborate?
I don't really care about KNOX, and as long as I can mod away and jump back and forth between modems/roms/kernels - I don't care for the warranty.
If indeed there is truth in the matter, and modem flashing will become a problem if KNOX is tripped, then this would be a deal breaker for me on this phone.
anyone care to add more info here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can, but you will always have problems like network, connection,calls, bugs and so on
Samsung devices do not provide the old pleasure as previously
Knox killed freedom of developers and people who like customizations

I would really appreciate an answer from someone who knows for sure.
does tripping KNOX disables the option to upgrade/downgrade the modem?

Amornik said:
I would really appreciate an answer from someone who knows for sure.
does tripping KNOX disables the option to upgrade/downgrade the modem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, KNOX tripping is only at the moment a warranty void solution for samsung. its like the flash count flags.
basically if you trip knox. you're already in it. you do what you want

Amornik said:
I would really appreciate an answer from someone who knows for sure.
does tripping KNOX disables the option to upgrade/downgrade the modem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought my phone with ANCE firmware and the KNOX was tripped in the first hour by CF-AutoRoot. Now I'm on ANG2, flashed with Odin and the modem is updated correctly.

Dark_Avenger said:
I bought my phone with ANCE firmware and the KNOX was tripped in the first hour by CF-AutoRoot. Now I'm on ANG2, flashed with Odin and the modem is updated correctly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now i'm a bit confused when you say you upgrade the FW, you mean the modem baseband, right ?

Amornik said:
Now i'm a bit confused when you say you upgrade the FW, you mean the modem baseband, right ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly, but with full stock image flush (including bootloader). The full stock tar.md5 form sammobile includes the modem/bootloader/rom. I think that the important thing is to have a modem which is compatible with the bootloader (same version). Didn't try to mix different bootloader/modem(baseband) versions.

Tripping KNOX will only disable the feature which allows you to store some data on a encrypted part of the device (Mostly comercial use) when KNOX is tripped any data stored on the 'special' partition is destroyed.
So there are only 2 things that will be affected, your warranty (Not a problem in Europe) and the special partition that I explained earlier.
Sent from my SM-G906S using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Thanks guys, excellent replies !
So...I did it !
I went and bought a brand new S5, and tripped KNOX within the hour. Man, did it feel sooo good !
custom recovery up, rom up, here we go!