Related
aaaaaaaaaaaaaa
ya... and? it's called being throttled... 10gb in a month, really? how much porn are you downloading lol. anyway, they andother carriers will do this to free up bandwidth for moderate users ....and its still unlimited because you're not being charged any "overage"
10 gigs is a lot of data, especially on a cell phone. I 'm on the web all the time and don't even come close. And I use Slacker a lot as well. THe only thing I don't really do is tether so I guess that could boost your data but still 10 gigs is a lot.
My Comcast has 250gb limit, i don't agree with it but they all do it.
Find yourself a hotspot and enable wifi. Half the time it's faster than 3G anyway.
what are you saying? it's perfect! Other companies let you go past their puny 2-5 GB/month data limit and then charge you huge overages or cut you off completely from data. With T-Mo you don't get charged extra, 10GB is a lot for a month, and when you go over you can still use data, albeit slowly, so you still receive those tweets.
Best company ever, man
I have seen somebody use over 20gb a month on there iPhone and was not sent a message from AT&T or had to pay any overage charger or be forced to have a reduced bandwidth. It's truly unlimited Internet.
Throttling is a common practice with most providers. Tethering though, believe it or not, is actually against your T-mobile terms of use...and if you reached 10gb's of data without tethering you need to go outside lol. So...if you were tethering, you shouldn't be complaining that they put a cap on internet to prevent you from overusing a system illicitly. They could just claim breach of your contract lol...though I've never seen it done before...
when did tethering become"against terms of use "I remember back in the day calling up customer care and they walked me through the tethering process. I had the 3.99tzones hack and was happily using edge to stream internet radio as tmo was and is stil lmy only isp. nowadays netflix streams fine over 3g on the 9.99 web2go...I don't think I've ever been throttled haha! (sounds funny) I don't kno what my data usage is though...
Geez...I tether everyday, and its myself and 2 other individuals who use my connection. Plus normal web browsing and pandora on my HD2 on almost a daily basis and I have never come close to the 10Gig limit.
...the fact is, even thought they throttle you after 10gigs (which is an absurd amount anyhow) you can still access the web from your phone right? So since you still have an active connection that means its still unlimited...they are just not allowing you to continue to download torrents or use your phone as your home ISP replacement for the rest of the month.
Tethering is not against Tmobiles TOS. You can find step by step guides on their forums on how to tether with wimo and blackberry. The only one it doesnt support but isnt against your TOS is android because you have to root your phone which voids the warranty.
Tethering IS against you TOS
Tethering any 3G phone is explicitly against the terms and conditions of you service agreement with T-Mobile. Tethering was never explicitly allowed by the terms and conditions, but it was not actively monitored by T-mobile. Since edge speeds and low data usage were not likely to cause network issues, T-mobile unofficially supported it. This is the same as the way you can call T-mobile tech support for assistance with an unlocked iPhone.
3G tethering is explicitly against the TOS and is actively being shut down, I have had a hand full of customers come in to the store when their tethering was blocked since it began a couple of months back.
Those of you who think that tethering is permitted, had better read your terms of service again...your sorely mistaken:
Here is the current TOS: http://www.t-mobile.com/Templates/P...&PAsset=Ftr_Ftr_TermsAndConditions&print=true
Section 29: Subsection 1: (near the bottom of the page)
1. Permissible and Prohibited Uses
Your Data Plan is intended for Web browsing, messaging, and similar activities on your device and not on any other equipment. Unless explicitly permitted by your Data Plan, other uses, including for example, tethering your device to a personal computer or other hardware, are not permitted.
Subsection 2 covers throttling and the fact that if you do tether they can suspend or cancel your account.
So since when has it been against TOS? Since as long as I can remember LOL. And if it wasn't back in the day...it is now.
The TOS should really be stickied so that people don't think it's okay.
Are you seriously complaining about getting throttled after using over 10gb of data??? Grow the eff up and stop using your cellphone as your internet connection to you computer. Tethering was meant for mobile users to have access to the internet while they were away from available WAPs. It wasn't meant for some 40 year old virgin to download porn all day. ******.
[highlight]Mod Edit: No Need for Insulting. Play Nice[/highlight]
I have to totally agree with you...LOLOLOLOL
+1 there... LOL
While I was at the Tmo store getting a new sim card I happened to ask the guy helping if tethering was allowed. He said it was as long as the phone supported it and you didn't go over the 10gb limit. My wife has been tethering her winmo phone for 2 years now and they have never said anything to us. although she's not downloading porn all day she does use it when she goes over to a friend's house that doesn't have internet. That being said, I don't doubt that it is against TOS but I doubt they will say anything as long as your not over stepping your boundaries.
2. Protective Measures
To provide a good experience for the majority of our customers and minimize capacity issues and degradation in network performance, we may take measures including temporarily reducing data throughput for a subset of customers who use a disproportionate amount of bandwidth; if your total usage exceeds 5GB (amount is subject to change; please periodically check T-Mobile.com for updates) during a billing cycle, we may reduce your data speed for the remainder of that billing cycle. We may also suspend, terminate, or restrict your data session, Plan, or service if you use your Data Plan in a manner that interferes with other customers’ service, our ability to allocate network capacity among customers, or that otherwise may degrade service quality for other customers.
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So basically it is up to TMOBILE to take (or not to take) actions if you exceed your allowed usage. Kinda went out of the subject matter a lil bit. I remember the title of this page was - !!!Beware!!!!!T-mobile Data Unlimited plan has Limit
I have been tethering using T-Mobile internet options for more than 7 years. Since I am considerate, I don't worry anything negative.
I don't mind people tethering whatsoever. What I mind is when people come onto a site dedicated to helping each other out; complaining that they are getting throttled because they are too inconsiderate to realize they are screwing other people over.
[EDIT] Some posters have responded that the assumptions made below are unrealistic as regards the average subscriber. That is absolutely true! This OP is unrelated to the "average subscriber." The thread is about the disconnect between the data download volume required by high-bandwidth apps being advertised by the carriers and the cummulative monthly data volume permitted by the carriers. I.e., this post would be valid if there were zero subscribers using these services. I would note, however, that these ideas will become increasingly applicable to the average subscriber as subscribers begin to use the cited services in greater volumes.
Other posters have commented that the 2 mbps assumption in this OP is unrealistically high. Please see posts 52, 54, and 75 for calculations related to actual apps that use similar bandwidths.
There has been much contraversy surrounding TMO's throttling network access speeds after a subscriber uses (or downloads?) 5 GB of data. Also, some people seem to be confused as to the meaning of the associated terms "bandwidth," "download speed," "total monthly usage," etc. This post is simply an attempt to clarify these terms and to add perspective to the issue.
I will use an (imprecise) analogy to household electrical power usage. The quantity of electrical power (measured in kilowatts), consumed at any point in time depends upon the sum of the current draw of the appliances, fixtures, machinery, etc. operating at that point in time. (Although power = voltage multiplied by current, the power company keeps the voltage relatively constant.)
Wireless data downloads can be considered as analogous to electrical power consumption if we analogize maximum link speed (also referred to as bandwidth) to voltage and bit flow to current. The power company maintains a (relatively constant) voltage to enable us to pull a variable amount of current according to our needs. A carrier maintains a (variable) amount of bandwidth to enable us to transfer a variable amount of data according to our needs.
Kilowatts and bits/second are both instantaeous values. So, the electric meter must continuously meter the current as it flows through the meter to sum the total energy used (kilowatt-hours). Likewise, TMO (apparently) implements a meter on their servers for each subscriber to monitor data flow over the course of a billing month.
Now, this is where the analogy gets interesting.
The power company charges per usage while TMO advertises and charges a flat monthly rate (assuming an "unlimited" data plan). On the surface (read: "as advertised"), the TMO plan sounds better. One is able to plan for a fixed monthly expenditure without having to worry about consumption. That is very appealing, because TMO has also heavily marketed their newer and ever-faster networks as well as devices and services requiring these greater bandwidths.
But notice what happens when a customer attempts to aggressively use the new devices, services, and supporting network bandwidths. When the data throttling hammer comes down, Internet data services are simply terminated until the beginning of the next billing month, for most practical purposes! (The modern Internet is largely non-functional at 56 kb.)
How would such behaviour play out with household energy consumption per our analogy? Say the power company initiates a big marketing campaign to place equipment and services in your home that require lots of power to operate, and sets you up on a flat monthly fee. To accommodate the new equipment and services, the power company drops 10kV service to your home. The first month, You use the new, very power-hungry equipment and services for 5-6 hours. By then, you have used 20,000 kwH. The power company's policy is to throttle users who reach 20,000 kwH. So what do they do? According to the analogy, they decrease the voltage to your house to 20 volts. Of course, 20 volts is not enough to run anything except perhaps enough to make a couple of light bulbs flicker. However, the power company can say that, technically, they have not breached their obligation to supply you unlimited power for a fixed fee. If you can do something with 20 volts for the remainder of the billing month, have at it!
For both the power company and a wireless carrier, these are peak loading problems. The difference is that the power company builds out the infrastructure necessary to handle peak loading for all of its customers, big and small.
A wireless data carrier can "build out" in two dimensions, speed and capacity. These are related but different quantities. Say TMO replaces transceiver technology on a tower. Say the old system had 4 transceivers, each capable of handling 1000 subscribers and providing data speeds of between 500kbps and 5 Mbps to each subscriber depending upon the number of data users connected to that tower. Now assume that the upgrade has five transceivers, each capable of handling 1000 subscribers. New technolgoy coding techniques now render a transceiver capable of providing data speeds of 1-21 Mbps, depending upon the number of data uses connected to that transceiver and their data requirements, etc. In this scenario, the carrier could do fancy marketing to pull in additional subscribers and some users would in fact sometimes see faster downloads. However, the carrier might not have accomplished much from a capacity standpoint in this scenario. E.g., tripling the number of 3G radios might be better from a capacity standpoint than replacing the existing 3G radios with 4G radios. However, the latter is much sexier from a marketing standpoint.
We will know when TMO has finally built out sufficient capacity to satisfy the data demand that they themselves create by hyping speed and speed-requiring services such as TMO-TV; because at that point there will be no further need for data caps and they will be removed or increased to higher thresholds. In the meantime, the following calculation is an indication of the amount of "unlimited" nework access we currently receive from TMO in exchange for our $80 - $100:
What is your average download speed? Of course it varies from region to region and from one moment to the next. Let us just pick some reasonable number as an average to work with, say 2 mbps. Consider that average and the 5 GB data cap. For quick calculation purposes, let us consider 10 bits/byte. (The real number is ~9 bits/byte after taking into account error correction overhead, etc.)
(5 x 10E9 Bytes) x (10 bits/byte) = 5 x 10E10 bits
(5 x 10E10 bits) / (2 x 10E6 bits/sec) = 25000 seconds
(25,000 seconds) / (3600 seconds/hr) = 6.9 hours
In conclusion: An "unlimited" TMO data plan provides about 7 hours of [clarification: high bandwidth application] access monthly, based upon advertised and provided speeds, before one is cut off from useful data access. Your available number of hours will vary according to the data speeds that you experience/utilize.
There are ~720 hours in a month. Thus, our carrier's plan provides for 2 mbps use of our phone about 1% of the time or about 25 minutes per day.
If you understand and are happy with this (as many no doubt are), wonderful! I believe that a subscriber should at least be aware of what he/she is getting for his/her $80-$100 per month, though; and the carriers should, but do not, disclose this information.
The only grip I have about it is, I wished it was cheaper, maybe $20-25 (i know about the loyalty plan but I haven't gotten time to ask about it). Or offer a $15 2gb plan (as opposed to the janky $10/15 200mb plan)
Unlimited means..
1. Having no restrictions or controls.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute.
This is what Unlimited mean,not the twisted version T-mobile trick some into believe,Unlimited mean no restrictions no controls,you can't abuse something that is presented to you in Unlimited form period.
I don't know why people have no sue T-mobile for this.
eltormo said:
Unlimited means..
1. Having no restrictions or controls.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute.
This is what Unlimited mean,not the twisted version T-mobile trick some into believe,Unlimited mean no restrictions no controls,you can't abuse something that is presented to you in Unlimited form period.
I don't know why people have no sue T-mobile for this.
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Who says unlimited means no restrictions and no controls? Unlimited defines whether there is a limit or not, not how you use the internet.
As for the OP, I regularly tether and use my phone and still haven't hit the 5 GB limit (downloading apps/games on my phone, roms, kernels, streaming Pandora, forum browsing on my laptop and youtube streaming).
The one's that get over the 5GB limit are probably doing things that they shouldn't be doing so imo it's fair and I would rather have it set to 5GB than having them raise rates for everybody and offer real unlimited.
not satisfied, but not upset. had i not streamed the entire super bowl through my phone, my data wouldn't be throttled right now!
my bad
ahem
Umm....
Cap ?
sahil04 said:
Who says unlimited means no restrictions and no controls? Unlimited defines whether there is a limit or not, not how you use the internet.
As for the OP, I regularly tether and use my phone and still haven't hit the 5 GB limit (downloading apps/games on my phone, roms, kernels, streaming Pandora, forum browsing on my laptop and youtube streaming).
The one's that get over the 5GB limit are probably doing things that they shouldn't be doing so imo it's fair and I would rather have it set to 5GB than having them raise rates for everybody and offer real unlimited.
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You know i just quoted a dictionary definition of Unlimited right one of them is having not restrictions or controls.?
Maybe you know more than the dudes who wrote the dictionary maybe we should go by your terms and not what the real definition means.
In fact the terms i quote are not referring to the Internet.
Stop lying dude i download 3 gameloft games,and watched some video on youtube and i landed over 1 GB in just 3 days,games from the android market like gameloft ones are close to 300 MB,i have spiderman,SplinterCell and GT racing and with those 3 alone i got close to 900MB.
In fact i made a test and watched several videos on youtube,and did some download without tethering,and i landed on 1.3 GB in just 3 days,and i did not even tether dude,stop acting like 5GB is allot if not,in fact not even close to be that much 5GB is nothing this days,i have video on my Galaxy S that are 53MB just for a 3 and half minute video,just head over to youtube and see how much data and actual good quality video takes.
In fact i have Temperature by Sean Paul and is 53 MB,10 miserable video like that one,that is what enough to get you what an hour of entertainment or less,and you have 500MB is just 1 hours of watching videos,use it 2 hours and you have 1GB already eat up.
5GB is nothing.
In fact roms alone are 130+ MB,some are close or over 200 MB,download 7 of those on 1 week and you already have close to 1GB use,just for roms.
Your math doesn't add up,and even without tethering 5GB is nothing.
But show me what we should not be doing,since phones like the mytouch 4G are also throttle and those are advertise as video phones (not that the Vibrant can't do that) and as a wireless hub,where other devices can connect to you,(again no that the Vibrant can't do that either),so in the end you have a service that is been advertise as unlimited,only to be punish for using it,Verizon did the same thing and was force to settle in cash.
I read now that T-mobile was sue for this as well,i don't think the outcome will be any different than what happen with Verizon.
I like the dictionary version of what Unlimited means,not your or T-mobile twisted version,you most work for T-mobile you have to,to actually cheer for such a scam,and to accuse others of wrong doing,when the features all this phones have are bandwidth demanding.
Tmobile
I like Tmobile
n2ishun said:
Umm....
Cap ?
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what's this a picture of?
eltormo said:
Unlimited means..
1. Having no restrictions or controls.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute.
This is what Unlimited mean,not the twisted version T-mobile trick some into believe,Unlimited mean no restrictions no controls,you can't abuse something that is presented to you in Unlimited form period.
I don't know why people have no sue T-mobile for this.
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Click to collapse
Yes, that is what "unlimited" means. You got the adjective right but I believe that you may be misunderstanding the noun. "Unlimited" must modify something; it cannot be analyzed by itself. if you read the fine print you will see that TMO promises unlimited Internet access, not unlimited Internet access at any particular speed. Thus (they claim), they continue to supply "unlimited" Internet access at 56kb after switching on the cap. That is, you may download any amount of data possible at 56kb. They may not even promise that. They may simply talk in terms of an "unlimited plan," which is marketing sizzle that means essentially nothing, except perhaps suggesting an absence of up-charges.
It seems that you may be suggesting that TMO promises unlimited access at any speed. That would not make sense, of course, because they are not physically capable of providing "any speed." So, what bandwidth are you buying when you sign up with a carrier? Well, essentially you are buying into an uncertain, imaginary bandwidth. By that I mean that in your own mind you imagine/hope what the bandwidth will be like, based upon that carrier's generally-stated advertising, PR releases, reputation, etc. At the current state of the wireless art, a carrier will not promise a retail customer any particular bandwidth.
That is where the "trick" lies and how unpleasant surprises arise. The carriers speak out of two sides of their mouth. One side is the advertising, PR, press releases, etc. which suggest certain bandwidth availability by making references to services (movie downloads, Internet TV, etc.) that require such bandwidth availability. The other side of their mouths is the retail subscriber contract terms which suggest just the opposite. That is, regular use of the bandwidths suggested in the PR constitutes punishable abuse.
These are untenable, contradictory positions that will likely not persist for much longer (JMO). Unfortunately, the short-term "fix" could be a metering scheme that is even worse. If they take that route, though, their ad campaign might take a big hit, as they would likely have to abandon terms like "unlimited."
It may be helpful to keep in mind what the wireless carrier business really is. A carrier spends billions of dollars to purchase spectral bandwidth from the US government. That carrier then spends additional billions of dollars to build out a network which enables them to repackage the spectral bandwidth as voice/data bandwidth to sell at retail. Like any other business, a wireless carrier will attempt to sell its service (repackaged bandwidth) for as high a price as the market will allow. Understanding this is the key to understanding why a carrier will laugh all the way to the bank when a fixed price, high-bandwidth customer threatens to cancel their contract and/or take their business elsewhere. If that happens, the carrier will simply resell that bandwidth to two or more new customers who may be smaller bandwidth consumers. Following such a transaction, the carrier will have replaced $80 per month of revenue with $160 $240 or more of monthly revenue.
Please note that my writings in this or any other XDA threads are simply personal opinions relating to public matters and are specifically not intended as statements of fact or advice. Any references to particular carriers are intended as examples only and could be applicable to any carrier.
Interesting Poll
The poll at the top of the page is interesting. At this point, at least, the extremes of "very satisfied" and "completely dissatisfied" are fairly evenly split.
Please vote if you have not already done so.
I am sure T-Mobile will double the cap pretty soon, and $30 ($25 with EM+) internet will have tethering included in the near future because AT&T is pressing hard on the new 4G smartphone + tethering pricing:
$45 with 4GB and tethering, and $10 per GB overage.
zbt1985 said:
what's this a picture of?
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121 gigs of transfer over Tmo in the last 31 days ?
BruceElliott said:
Yes, that is what "unlimited" means. unlimited Internet access, not unlimited Internet access at any particular speed.
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I think if even YOU (a Tmobile shill) will look at it, limiting internet speed is still LIMITING.
My contract states in clear language, UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS.
They have tried to force me to change that contract many times.
Many many times.
I will not change it, or allow them to change it, it is a binding contract.
Yes, they offer free phones and minutes and even freemonths for me to change it...NFW, ain't happenin.
n2ishun said:
I think if even YOU (a Tmobile shill) will look at it, limiting internet speed is still LIMITING.
My contract states in clear language, UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS.
They have tried to force me to change that contract many times.
Many many times.
I will not change it, or allow them to change it, it is a binding contract.
Yes, they offer free phones and minutes and even freemonths for me to change it...NFW, ain't happenin.
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A T-Mobile shill? You must not be reading my posts very carefully... LOL!
n2ishun said:
121 gigs of transfer over Tmo in the last 31 days ?
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No; that is an application associated with a BitTorrent client that simply keeps track of Internet usage. Not sure how it is applicable to this thread, given that TMO provides the same information for TMO's wireless service.
mingkee said:
I am sure T-Mobile will double the cap pretty soon, and $30 ($25 with EM+) internet will have tethering included in the near future because AT&T is pressing hard on the new 4G smartphone + tethering pricing:
$45 with 4GB and tethering, and $10 per GB overage.
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That would be good. Let's hope that you are correct.
I pay good money for my data plan. And it is indeed very limited.
I had a talk with T-mobile on Twitter back when it was announced about the HSPA+ speeds and said why is there a cap after 5gb and I used the 21mb/s and gave them all the calculations as to how quickly that 5gb would get used up. I asked why give us faster speeds when you could be investing our money into expanding the network giving 3G speeds to areas stuck on EDGE or have no coverage from T-mobile. Their only response was stay tuned for what we have in store for our customers.
Yes throttling speed that is done purposely by T-mobile makes it not unlimited. If it was simply limited to the speed that you can get given where you are using your phone at then that would mean unlimited.
Scoobyracing03 said:
I had a talk with T-mobile on Twitter back when it was announced about the HSPA+ speeds and said why is there a cap after 5gb and I used the 21mb/s and gave them all the calculations as to how quickly that 5gb would get used up. I asked why give us faster speeds when you could be investing our money into expanding the network giving 3G speeds to areas stuck on EDGE or have no coverage from T-mobile. Their only response was stay tuned for what we have in store for our customers.
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Yep, you clearly anticipated what my OP is about when you communicated with TMO. Let's hope that the person who suggested that you "stay tuned" was well-informed!
I imagine that the early build-out in the speed dimension was a marketing tool designed to capture customers based upon the "wow" factor of enormous speed. However, a carrier who does not quickly follow this angle up with building out in the capacity dimension will (and has) disappoint(ed) customers and will likely fall flat on their face. Wireless carriers are, of course, a limited monopoly, limited by available spectral bandwidth constraints and huge investment costs. We in the U.S. are fortunate to at least have a few carriers to compete for customers. Hopefully that competition will be sufficient to continue to drive investment in capacity. If not, the public sector can always step in... At the end of the day, the freqency spectrum, like the air we breath, is owned by the people. We may lease it out. We may also cancel leases for the public good...
http://gizmodo.com/5825913/this-would-be-terribly-lame-on-atts-part-if-its-true
This Would Be Terribly Lame on AT&T’s Part, If It’s True
A rumor: Like Verizon, AT&T is going to start slowing down the internets of its heaviest users—something like the top 5 percent of data hogs—starting around October.
This would be okay (grudgingly), given precisely two conditions: If everybody on AT&T still had unlimited data (they don't) or if AT&T only applied the throttling to the heaviest users who still have unlimited data. In other words, if AT&T started slowing down the connections of users who don't have unlimited data—the ones who pay for every byte they download—that would be total bull****, since, well, they're paying for all of it. Effectively, they'd be getting screwed on both ends.
AT&T won't say a word about it, so it's hard to say exactly how they'd apply the throttling. Verizon's reps haven't gotten back to me as to whether their throttling will also apply to heavy users who don't have unlimited data plans, now that they've switched to tiered data plans too. Obviously, it'd be crappy on their part to hit those users twice, too. (Verizon's supposedly trying to limit 3G FaceTime to people who have limited data plans, to keep the network from exploding, and obviously to make more money.)
If this happens, and AT&T does start throttling its heavy users, it'll leave Sprint as the only major carrier that doesn't implement throttling at all—not to mention it's the only carrier with truly unlimited data. And bless them for that.
I didn't know it was made any faster for them to slow down. Here in houston tx. the speeds seem to be the same speed as they were over a year ago. The only thing the speed upgrade did was decrease coverage and increase dropped calls.
Just got a letter from Sprint, telling me control my internet usage within 10 days.... Otherwise they will kick me out. Sprint MOD EDIT: WATCH YOUR LANGUAJE, don't advertise as unlimited and then send these threatening letters to your customers.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Thats why I left sprint...they crippled...errr completely removed tethering from my Palm device. I used to be able to tether via bluetooth, then one day was greeted with a message to contact CS. when i called to inquire about the loss of functionality, they told me that they now only offer that service functionality for their new top of the line devices (at the time was the Evo 4G). I told them that they need to change the name of the "Simple Everything Data" Plan, to the "Almost Everything Data" Plan. I was so angry I broke contract and canceled service right then and went to TMO. I 2nd what you say about sprint.
They only send that letter if you abuse roaming (which is outlined in your ToS) they do not send the letter if you overuse sprints network
Thanks for trying, stop trying to sound innocent and making sprint look like the bad guy
Have you ever heard of a fair use policy?
Sprints network has very little bandwidth 3G wise due to using outdated tech, so if your a heavy user on 3G it affects their other users.
This is the easiest way out of any contract download several gigs of data (while roaming) in a few days on your phone and they will gladly kill your contract for you.**
Personally I bought roam control (for CDMA only) for my phone just so I could force it to roam (in my valley sprint service sucks) so while I'm home I force it to use Verizon's network which as you might guess makes Sprint real happy
-Ice
**I suppose I should add that I do not endorse this method for getting out of your contract & trying this method may end badly (500 page long multi-thousand dollar bill) if they catch on to what your doing.
lol, you must be using a lot of data!
MrLadoodle said:
Have you ever heard of a fair use policy?
Sprints network has very little bandwidth 3G wise due to using outdated tech, so if your a heavy user on 3G it affects their other users.
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Fair use means that if i am sold something as unlimited i should use it in that way.
That so call fair use policy is only fair on Sprint and T-mobile not on customers which are the ones that pay the monthly fee,and the reason why those companies exist,without me and you and the other sprint is just a bunch of empty useless antennas.
Is not my fault that they use outdated tech,in fact when i bought my Epic 4G touch 2 days ago no one from Sprint told me their network was as slow as 1998 DSL connections,and that their tech was outdated and that their wimax network is nothing but fake crap that only very few people can take advantage of.
They told me the phone was great and that the network was fast,not to mention the whole 4G crap hipping.
The only problem i see here is Sprint fault not his fault,is not his fault that Sprint used outdated tech i am sure no one when he bough the phone told him,hey we have and old crappy network so don't use it to much,even that is the only one advertised as ""Truly"" Unlimited and uncapped.
pretty lame company, offer you "unlimited" then complain you are downloading too much WTF
I don't understand why 'unlimited' is supposed to be Sprint's big selling point. Their 3G speeds are pathetic in most places, and even when the coverage map shows you squarely under 4G, you probably won't get it--especially if you're inside any sort of building, or God forbid, in a car.
I personally wanted 5GB of fast, reliable bandwidth than all you can eat crap, so I left.
I worked in a Sprint store before, and even before that, I received one of these letters. As someone stated above, it only applies to roaming, which costs them a lot of money once you pass your allowed amounts. They have an agreement with Verizon and roaming (and Verizon has one with Sprint). The rules are:
- 300 MB of roaming
- More than half of your minutes used for 3 consecutive months are roaming minutes
- Most of your text messaging (although I'm not sure on this one)
Chances are, you're either using a PRL hack, Roam Control (which is now off the Market I believe), or you just live in an area with ****ty Sprint signal. If the latter is the case, just save yourself the trouble and switch to another provider.
Haven't had any problems with sprint other than hitting their bandwidth throttle. Seemed to limit my down rates to 300Kb/s at first then just cripple to a trickle after that.
Did you have a high spike in usage? Did you move into a highly populated area?
These could be why. For example; 25GB, 41GB, 33GB, 44GB; Those are my usages for the last 4 billing cycles. I transfer a lot of data over wifi, my home network, and other networks. Along with solely high quality video and audio [MOG, Rhapsody] streams. I've never received a letter or complaint.
Just got a letter from sprint saying exactly what the OP said. Not roaming but "unlimited data" usage. I'm always on 4g and I used about 109gb of data this month. They said if I don't control it they will terminate my contract. That's a lot of data I know but unlimited is unlimited!!! F them!
inflewence said:
Just got a letter from sprint saying exactly what the OP said. Not roaming but "unlimited data" usage. I'm always on 4g and I used about 109gb of data this month. They said if I don't control it they will terminate my contract. That's a lot of data I know but unlimited is unlimited!!! F them!
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Even I would argue against you dude. 109GB is an insane amount. They mean unlimited to a reasonable amount. My friend goes to 60GB and doesn't get warned. You must've went crazy with your data to make them warn you.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
If it does happen, just start up a prepaid number somewhere and port it out. Then port it back into Sprint. They have no say then.
just to clarify, as I work for sprint currently:
Updating your PRL does nothing, other than tell the phone which towers have lower roaming costs. (on sprint)
Verizon doesn't roam on any network. (I was a verizon manager as well) If you have a vzw phone, you won't roam at all.
If your using 109 gb's a month and complaining about sprint saying something to you, I would reccommend getting an actual home internet connection instead of using it for tethering so much.
As far as the roaming stuff, yes, if you roam a ton while with sprint, they can release you from the contract, but its not an automatic thing. A lot of times you will have to call cs a few times (because sprint CS sucks, and are a bunch of morons usually) and have them pull the account and see how much you are roaming and how many dropped calls, ect, are.
jman42028 said:
just to clarify, as I work for sprint currently:
Updating your PRL does nothing, other than tell the phone which towers have lower roaming costs. (on sprint)
Verizon doesn't roam on any network. (I was a verizon manager as well) If you have a vzw phone, you won't roam at all.
If your using 109 gb's a month and complaining about sprint saying something to you, I would reccommend getting an actual home internet connection instead of using it for tethering so much.
As far as the roaming stuff, yes, if you roam a ton while with sprint, they can release you from the contract, but its not an automatic thing. A lot of times you will have to call cs a few times (because sprint CS sucks, and are a bunch of morons usually) and have them pull the account and see how much you are roaming and how many dropped calls, ect, are.
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I was a technician at both Sprint and Verizon and I can tell you Verizon roams on Sprint. It happens a lot on my campus.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Oh, sweet. This argument again. Please read the 'unlimited' agreement you have with Sprint. Please note the conditions which apply. Please note what specific data activities you are permitted in the agreement. Note also the prohibited activities. Finally, pay close attention to the bottom of this contract where you electronically signed and acknowledged/agreed to all the conditions which they are well within their rights to enforce.
109gb of data is quite a bit. How does one's handheld use that much data in a month?
Imaginos said:
Oh, sweet. This argument again. Please read the 'unlimited' agreement you have with Sprint. Please note the conditions which apply. Please note what specific data activities you are permitted in the agreement. Note also the prohibited activities. Finally, pay close attention to the bottom of this contract where you electronically signed and acknowledged/agreed to all the conditions which they are well within their rights to enforce.
109gb of data is quite a bit. How does one's handheld use that much data in a month?
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Tethering, obviously. I'm ok with tethering to a reasonable amount (ie to browse the web for a little while when there's no connection), or even to download a couple of gigs (on 4G) but 109GB is ridiculous and I side with Sprint in this case.
Verizon throttled me for using 89GB ONE time, and then throttled me at 12gb. Now I have only used 5GB on my verizon phone so they don't come down with the throttle hamer of doom. Just giving a heads up that verizon is not true unlimited.
Proof:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCbvDEewcJU&feature=channel&list=UL
That is all
Ok, so here's the deal. US subscribers are in a pickle as far as unlimited data plans are concerned with tethering. Our plans suck (comparatively).
Some of it has to do with wording of contracts by carriers. Some of it has to do with the entitlement we feel when we purchased our respective unlimited data plans. Either way, we all feel hurt by this. As consumers, we want it our way. We want our unlimited data plans to cover our 2GB months to our 200GB months. We don't want to be told about limits on plans labeled and sold as unlimited.
Here's where you come in. How would you change the terms of the agreement as an AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon, or other carrier's customer if you were in charge? Keep in mind that you may have limited network resources, funds, or staff to carry out the extreme plans. You still need to generate income for your investors. What would you do to make your customers happy as well as the investors? Is it possible? Is there any sort of reform that is possible in our wireless industry?
Ban contracts all-together. The bundling of phones with network vastly distorts both markets; phones are no longer truly competing on price (e.g. apple's strong position with the iPhone allows them to dictate high carrier subsidies, whose costs must be paid off by effectively taxing everyone else on the network) while carriers are instead competing on phones (rather than the quality of their service).
On the other hand, without subsidies (which essentially hide the costs for the average person who doesn't think it through), manufacturers would have to actually worry about choosing a price low enough to be attractive. This is something that is sorely missing under the current regime.
Not to mention, contracts themselves are effectively anti-competitive, locking in users who don't really know how to properly evaluate their choices. The way to ensure the best service for the user is to allow them to quit at a moment's notice.
Now, I notice you might be thinking more specifically about how the service agreements can be modified, rather than the "contracts" per se. Do the above, and this woud automatically happen. The carriers will have to actually compete for better service (rather than just drawing in people with new shiny phones in order to lock them in). If their service is not up to par with their advertisements, people would just quit the next month. Hence, no more random throttling of plans, etc.
thebobp said:
Ban contracts all-together. The bundling of phones with network vastly distorts both markets; phones are no longer truly competing on price (e.g. apple's strong position with the iPhone allows them to dictate high carrier subsidies, whose costs must be paid off by effectively taxing everyone else on the network) while carriers are instead competing on phones (rather than the quality of their service).
On the other hand, without subsidies (which essentially hide the costs for the average person who doesn't think it through), manufacturers would have to actually worry about choosing a price low enough to be attractive. This is something that is sorely missing under the current regime.
Not to mention, contracts themselves are effectively anti-competitive, locking in users who don't really know how to properly evaluate their choices. The way to ensure the best service for the user is to allow them to quit at a moment's notice.
Now, I notice you might be thinking more specifically about how the service agreements can be modified, rather than the "contracts" per se. Do the above, and this woud automatically happen. The carriers will actually have to compete for better service, rather than just ensure that people are locked in longer than they can think about. If their service is not up to par with their advertisements, people would quit the next month. No more throttling plans with nothing the users can say about it.
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I understand your position, but I have doubts that this would be possible to implement in our market. T-Mobile's CMO made a statement about device subsidies contorting what the devices actually cost. T-Mobile actually has a line of Value plans that are kind of on par with what you're thinking about. The rate plans are considerably cheaper than the ones with a device subsidy. The real problem is convincing the other carriers to follow suit.
See, by doing this, it put investors at risk. It's all a money making game. If an idea isn't profitable, then it generally never sees the light of day. What about a sales model similar to what T-Mobile is offering? Could you see a way to make this model profitable to both carriers and consumers alike?
I think it should be handled like the european networks handle their service agreements. You sign up for service when you buy a phone, and you pay full retail price for the phone. Then you pay a relatively lower price for service. Instead of paying say, 59.99 for a phone that retails for 399.99 and then paying 100$ give or take a little each month, you pay full price for the phone, and then get your bill for 50ish a month. Which one sounds better?
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
leo321 said:
I think it should be handled like the european networks handle their service agreements. You sign up for service when you buy a phone, and you pay full retail price for the phone. Then you pay a relatively lower price for service. Instead of paying say, 59.99 for a phone that retails for 399.99 and then paying 100$ give or take a little each month, you pay full price for the phone, and then get your bill for 50ish a month. Which one sounds better?
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
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I agree that this would benefit us more as consumers, but we would need to come up with a marketable solution to the current situation that would be agreeable to the carriers as well.
cajunflavoredbob said:
If an idea isn't profitable, then it generally never sees the light of day.
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This.
Blaming carrier greed is easy but really doesn't solve anything. Carriers want to make more money and contracts make them more money - I can't fault them for that.
I don't see the US market becoming like Europe's. Although T-Mobile USA is trying to change things, I can think of two things in the way:
-Americans are too stupid to save money~~ Everyone thinks short term savings, hence the persistence of contracts.
-Carrier incompatibility~~ Verizon and Sprint are CDMA. T-Mobile and AT&T run on (mostly) different 3G bands. Buy a phone for full retail and you're probably going to be stuck with one carrier anyway.
luftrofl said:
This.
Blaming carrier greed is easy but really doesn't solve anything. Carriers want to make more money and contracts make them more money - I can't fault them for that.
I don't see the US market becoming like Europe's. Although T-Mobile USA is trying to change things, I can think of two things in the way:
-Americans are too stupid to save money~~ Everyone thinks short term savings, hence the persistence of contracts.
-Carrier incompatibility~~ Verizon and Sprint are CDMA. T-Mobile and AT&T run on (mostly) different 3G bands. Buy a phone for full retail and you're probably going to be stuck with one carrier anyway.
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Click to collapse
The incompatibility is changing this year, at least with AT&T and T-Mobile. T-Mobile is currently refarming their spectrum to rollout a network on the 1900MHz PCS spectrum. This will be used for their HSPA/+ network, while the existing 1700MHz network will be used for LTE. This move makes their network inter-operable with AT&T devices.
Other than that, I agree with your points. I don't feel that T-Mobile is going to make contracts as we know them go away. I admire the bold move, but I doubt it will ripple the waters much. That being said, I'm hoping we can come together and brainstorm a bit to think of a way to benefit carriers and customers alike. Our market NEEDS to change.
Pentaband unlocked handsets for everybody! Then you can choose whatever retarded WCDMA bands you like!
A list of things I would do:
1) Bring back the unlimited data plans, but only for LTE. (bandwith limits 3g unlimited plans)
2) Have them start rolling out LTE v10 or LTE advaned right now.
3) Voice over LTE.
4) Unlimited voice and text added to a data plan like this:
Plan1) Unlimited voice and text+2gb of data for $
plan2) Unlimited voice and text+5gb of data for $$
plan3) Unlimited voice and text+10GB of data for $$$
plan4) Unlimited voice and text+Unlimited data for $$$$ (LTE only)
They are just ex and I hope the pricing is better than that, but I am trying to be real here.
And verizon needs to fix this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxJoGv3FLA&feature=player_embedded
4ktvs said:
A list of things I would do:
1) Bring back the unlimited data plans, but only for LTE. (bandwith limits 3g unlimited plans)
2) Have them start rolling out LTE v10 or LTE advaned right now.
3) Voice over LTE.
4) Unlimited voice and text added to a data plan like this:
Plan1) Unlimited voice and text+2gb of data for $
plan2) Unlimited voice and text+5gb of data for $$
plan3) Unlimited voice and text+10GB of data for $$$
plan4) Unlimited voice and text+Unlimited data for $$$$ (LTE only)
They are just ex and I hope the pricing is better than that, but I am trying to be real here.
And verizon needs to fix this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxJoGv3FLA&feature=player_embedded
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Click to collapse
This isn't really a plan. It's more of a wish list. I was hoping that some of the people around here might actually have better ideas of how to do things than the carriers. This isn't a wish list thread. I intended it more as a brainstorming thread.
Well, before anything I want to happen will even be possible, we'd have to see real net neutrality laws in this country...
I would like to see wireless carriers charge for internet access the same way that most ISPs charge. You pay for speed and have unlimited data. Say I have an LTE device. I can pay $50 for unlimited data at 10 Mbps or $100 for 20 Mbps. This makes much more sense to me.
Also, carriers need to be dump pipes. That's just how it has to be. I know they all fear that and will do everything in their power to stop it but I think it's inevitable.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
cajunflavoredbob said:
This isn't really a plan. It's more of a wish list. I was hoping that some of the people around here might actually have better ideas of how to do things than the carriers. This isn't a wish list thread. I intended it more as a brainstorming thread.
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#2 was more of a wish, but the rest of it is not. Let me try to put it in a better way:
1) give 4G LTE users a higher cap/unlimited data, becuase there is more bandwith. They could charge a bit more for the new Data plans, but over all save $ for the buyers. In turn, this would likely help the push for LTE and kill 2g and 3g sooner, so that the bandwith can be used for 4G.
2) Voice over LTE( 3 will be why)
3) When Voice over LTE is done, then make voice/text/data all one plan, Like:
1) 2GB for $60. ( Voice and text would use data)
2) 5GB for $80.
3) 10GB for $100.
4) 20GB/unlimited for $120.
Any way I am not a CEO and I don't have the # for everything, so this "plan" of mine may not work/be good, but I tryed.
I have both AT&T and verizon unlimited data plans and don't like the low bar they have set of 2-5gb plans, but really most don't use more than about 5GB. Now I bet they would if they used a crap load of voice at 50mb per 60 min. ( If you used 900min per bill then you would use about 750mb or about bit less 1/2 of the 2GB plan and then a few e-mails, some text and bam over the limit.)
Mobile voice is surely not 50Mb for 60 minutes. That'd be close to 128kbps MP3 quality, which our phones certainly are not!
I read that on verizon, that voice would be about 45mb per hour. I don't know all the #, but think it may work. They may up the voice quality to make this work and I think it's one of there goals with voice over LTE.
4ktvs said:
#2 was more of a wish, but the rest of it is not. Let me try to put it in a better way:
1) give 4G LTE users a higher cap/unlimited data, becuase there is more bandwith. They could charge a bit more for the new Data plans, but over all save $ for the buyers. In turn, this would likely help the push for LTE and kill 2g and 3g sooner, so that the bandwith can be used for 4G.
2) Voice over LTE( 3 will be why)
3) When Voice over LTE is done, then make voice/text/data all one plan, Like:
1) 2GB for $60. ( Voice and text would use data)
2) 5GB for $80.
3) 10GB for $100.
4) 20GB/unlimited for $120.
Any way I am not a CEO and I don't have the # for everything, so this "plan" of mine may not work/be good, but I tryed.
I have both AT&T and verizon unlimited data plans and don't like the low bar they have set of 2-5gb plans, but really most don't use more than about 5GB. Now I bet they would if they used a crap load of voice at 50mb per 60 min. ( If you used 900min per bill then you would use about 750mb or about bit less 1/2 of the 2GB plan and then a few e-mails, some text and bam over the limit.)
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That's actually a much better way of saying it. It's not a bad idea. Going all data would seem to be the way to go for the future. That problem is going to be getting carriers to realize this and make adjustments accordingly. They keep saying that they don't have enough bandwidth to service everyone, but this plan makes exclusive use of data. It requires a nationwide "4G" footprint. Verizon is the closest to this right now. T-Mobile is close behind with its HSPA+ rollout. AT&T has a large HSPA+ footprint as well, but it's not any/much faster than their 3G in my testing. We won't even go into Sprint's "4G" services....
I think that Verizon and T-Mobile would be the biggest players in this. T-Mobile currently has the bandwidth and lower customer base to make this a reality. Verizon may still have quite a way to go, though. CDMA technology really needs to hurry up and die already.
In any case, this is any interesting plan, that would indeed be beneficial to both parties. The biggest hurdle is that their are still large parts of the country that do not have high speed wireless access. Within the next three years, I can see this being put into play.
EDIT: Also, GSM networks use the G.729 codec (as far as I recall) for voice calls which compress the call to roughly 6-8Kbps. This makes it about 3.6MB per hour on a normal, non VoIP GSM call. I have no idea what CDMA uses.
4ktvs said:
They are just ex and I hope the pricing is better than that, but I am trying to be real here.
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... you're not trying hard enough
Seriously though, that list is unrealistic. "I want more advanced tech and I want it released and working now." is not a useful answer for "How would you change the wireless market?"
As for me, I want American cell networks to be more compatible with other networks - right now AT&T and T-Mobile are the only carriers with anything close to this. Maybe there's hope for this with LTE developments, but I don't know.
If this happens, maybe cheaper postpaid plans will be available - I really like this - it's why I'm on T-Mobile. I wish AT&T would have discounted plans if you're not on contract - it's not like they need to subsidize a phone.
luftrofl said:
... you're not trying hard enough
Seriously though, that list is unrealistic. "I want more advanced tech and I want it released and working now." is not a useful answer for "How would you change the wireless market?"
As for me, I want American cell networks to be more compatible with other networks - right now AT&T and T-Mobile are the only carriers with anything close to this. Maybe there's hope for this with LTE developments, but I don't know.
If this happens, maybe cheaper postpaid plans will be available - I really like this - it's why I'm on T-Mobile. I wish AT&T would have discounted plans if you're not on contract - it's not like they need to subsidize a phone.
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You're answer is similar to the one you jest about. How would such a move benefit the carriers? If it is not beneficial to them, it will not happen. What would be their motivation to make their networks or devices interoperable? Customer loyalty, or doing it to make customers happy isn't a reason, unfortunately. Generally, there needs to be financial motivation to make changes to the market.
cajunflavoredbob said:
EDIT: Also, GSM networks use the G.729 codec (as far as I recall) for voice calls which compress the call to roughly 6-8Kbps. This makes it about 3.6MB per hour on a normal, non VoIP GSM call. I have no idea what CDMA uses.
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Thank you, I couldn't remember the exact bitrate but I knew it was really very low.
Adaptive Multi-Rate Speech (AMR) is the codec used by WCDMA voice and it tops out at 12kbps.
Now I know were I got 45mb/hour. I read it in the mobile broadband part of a verizon mag.
It list Voice call(VoIP) as 45MB/hour over 4G LTE.