Database Users

[HELP]Nexus 4 [ DON'T START AFTER EVIL WIPE ! ]

Hello XDA
Recently my girlfriend enter in bootloader in my cellphone and wipe (that's why i call evil wipe) my Nexus 4 (Android 4.3) and im scared because my cellphone dont start, tried to connect to pc but nothing,tried the volumes config and nothing even think i cna apply warranty but my cellphone is rooted and if i cant acces and modify google is going to know is rooted and dont apply warranty for me so i think just xda forum & god can helpme
Anyone please :crying:
Im scared as fuc..k:crying::crying::crying:
PD: Is a HARD BRICK
*Can't acces to Bootloader
*Can't start the phone
*Can't enter in Download mode
*The battery is FULL %100 Charged
+ Unique thing is my computer detects the device seems theres no drivers or something like that recognize like unknow device (QHUSB Dload installed the drivers for that and now detects as COM 5)

N4Newbie said:
Hello XDA
Recently my girlfriend enter in bootloader in my cellphone and wipe (that's why i call evil wipe) my Nexus 4 (Android 4.3) and im scared because my cellphone dont start, tried to connect to pc but nothing,tried the volumes config and nothing even think i cna apply warranty but my cellphone is rooted and if i cant acces and modify google is going to know is rooted and dont apply warranty for me so i think just xda forum & god can helpme
Anyone please :crying:
Im scared as fuc..k:crying::crying::crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have basic knowledge of ADB and fastboot? If yes, you can download factory images and then flash them in fastboot.

If you can get into the bootloader screen you can use fastboot to restore the factory image to your phone, follow the instruction in the links in my signature. There are probably youtube videos as well that can guide you through the process.

Evil evil wipe!
Evil evil wipe!
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Ghoul wipe!
MUHAAAAAA! MUMUMUAAHAAAAHA! (cough) Muhhhaaaaaa!

Install Wugs tool, you can reflash everything in a couple minutes.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app

chrisrozon said:
Install Wugs tool, you can reflash everything in a couple minutes.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please helpme with that or can you be more specific
Thanks

Just Google wug's nexus tool. I think it's version 1.74 or something now. Install it and follow directions. I forget if you need factory images already installed for it to work.
I got out of a similar jam earlier. You may have to flash everything thorough fastboot manually though.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Premium HD app

eksasol said:
If you can get into the bootloader screen you can use fastboot to restore the factory image to your phone, follow the instruction in the links in my signature. There are probably youtube videos as well that can guide you through the process.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't enter in Fastboot and i can't turn on the phone i was watching and my pc recognize this as my cellphone i dont knwo why dont recognize as ADB interface or something like that

N4Newbie said:
I can't enter in Fastboot and i can't turn on the phone i was watching and my pc recognize this as my cellphone i dont knwo why dont recognize as ADB interface or something like that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You need to install the adb nexus 4 drivers.

lazer155 said:
You need to install the adb nexus 4 drivers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a installer

N4Newbie said:
Do you have a installer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just google "nexus 4 adb driver install", there are tons of guides.

N4Newbie said:
Do you have a installer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use the Universal Naked Driver in my signature, you might need to disable driver signature checking before installing it. If you can't get it to install, try the Google USB driver.
It looks like the bootloader is damaged for your device, this is your last hope at recovering it: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2347060

eksasol said:
Use the Universal Naked Driver in my signature, you might need to disable driver signature checking before installing it. If you can't get it to install, try the Google USB driver.
It looks like the bootloader is damaged for your device, this is your last hope at recovering it: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2347060
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buddy i try installing the naked driver and seems like now is COM5 ??
i also tryed the Google USB Driver but nothing (the 2 installers)
Reading & Reading i think my Nexus 4 is Hard bricked

There is no such thing as a bricked Nexus. Don't worry, you'll get it fixed easily enough!
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app

chrisrozon said:
There is no such thing as a bricked Nexus. Don't worry, you'll get it fixed easily enough!
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you please helpme ?
I try to use many unbrick methods
like the unbrick method with the download mode (can't acces to download mode)
the unbrick method with the fastboot (can't acces to fastboot)
tried the unbrick method with Nexus root Toolkit (in the mode softbricked/bootloop) but doesnt work need fastboot (can't enter in fastboot)
Can't use ADB !!
determinated all unbrick methods need fastboot, download mode, adb or something but NOTHING WORKS !!!
just the unique thing is my computer detect as QHUSB_DLOAD (qualcom driver or something like that) apparently is using the port COM5 but not sure :crying:
Any ideas would be appreciated or any tut :crying::crying: im desesperated and now hate a lot my EXgf yes now is EX !!!

I've already post above the link to restore your device using download mode, try it. Try using a different PC to get the device detected.
I think you should sort your personal life first if you break up with someone due to a careless mistake on a relatively cheap device.

eksasol said:
I've already post above the link to restore your device using download mode, try it. Try using a different PC to get the device detected.
I thing you should sort your personal life first if you break up with someone due to a careless mistake on a relatively cheap device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man she do intencionally for ****ing my Nexus 4 sorry don't mention that in the thread, she do it because she thinks i was wtching porn on my Nexus (I never watch porn prefer the real girls) and then she literral try to brick my cellphone !!!

Someone can please helpme is a confirmed hardbrick any ideas all they say to me for try not worked i would appreciate new methods :good:
Thanks

All the things u can do are posted already. If that doesn't help u then wipe your @$$ with it and throw it in the bin
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

***need help, may have bricked my g2***

i did something stupid... lol. was running PA 4.4 rom with no troubles, had a backup as well. in preporation to sell this thing, i restored my stock backup , and noticed there was an update from att. so i decided to try installing it. well it downloaded fine, but when i tried to install it, it rebooted into twrp recovery. now i cant get it to boot into the OS. i tried restoring backup again but it still boots into recovery. any help?

At this point sideload pa 4.4 or return to bone stock they are described in the forums clearly.
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app

lingarajug said:
At this point sideload pa 4.4 or return to bone stock they are described in the forums clearly.
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am trying to return to bone stock, but i cant get it to boot in to download mode? it still boots into recovery? can you elaborate or point me in the right direction of how to sideload ?

ssreynolds said:
i am trying to return to bone stock, but i cant get it to boot in to download mode? it still boots into recovery? can you elaborate or point me in the right direction of how to sideload ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To get into dl mode....turn off the device....then hold ONLY the volume up button while putting in the usb cable...it will go into dl mode.

MalignantQuechnitlan said:
To get into dl mode....turn off the device....then hold ONLY the volume up button while putting in the usb cable...it will go into dl mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the reply... i know how to do it, but its not working because i screwed my device up by trying to insall an ota update with a rooted device and a custom recovery. so my only option now is to sideload, which i am working on... hope it works...

cant get adb to recognize my device, maybe because i dont have usb debugging enabled? which i cant enable because icant boot into os... what do i do to get this thing working again? i have android sdk tools installed

Omg I can't believe tons of people are having same problem, ok here u go stock lg drivers don't seem to help pc recognize phone in recovery mode what I did was downloaded pdanet on pc and connected phone to pc in recovery mode and then opened pdanet in pc and installed lg drivers through it and then my pc recognized my phone as adb sideload when adb was run hope it helps you too.
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app

I had the same thing happen today, couldn't get into download mode. I followed the fastboot instructions from http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2477595 and it worked great.
He has links in that window to the specific file to flash.

lingarajug said:
Omg I can't believe tons of people are having same problem, ok here u go stock lg drivers don't seem to help pc recognize phone in recovery mode what I did was downloaded pdanet on pc and connected phone to pc in recovery mode and then opened pdanet in pc and installed lg drivers through it and then my pc recognized my phone as adb sideload when adb was run hope it helps you too.
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried this, along with everything else, and my phone is still stuck in a boot loop. I cannot enter download mode. I was rooted with custom recovery, but i could never get the recovery to work. I tried to update to the OTA (i know, i know) and it killed the phone. Now when I connect it nothing happens other than a bunch of drive popups asking if i want to format. No download or recovery mode. only the LG logo screen and then a quick flash of the "Secure booting error Error: Boot Certification Verify!" screen, and nothing else since.
The main issue is that i cannot get my phone to be recognized by the computer for any type of reflash. If I could get into download mode, I could handle it from there. I hope I don't have to buy a new phone. Im not sure how verizon would feel about it if I took it back to them and it shows as rooted.

Can u at least get into twrp recovery using key combination
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app

lingarajug said:
Can u at least get into twrp recovery using key combination
Sent from my LG-D800 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I cant get to recovery mode either. I think this is a hard brick. I've only had it for one day. Something told me not to mess with it.

Roninceo said:
No, I cant get to recovery mode either. I think this is a hard brick. I've only had it for one day. Something told me not to mess with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hei.connect to pc you can see a lot of drive to format？sorry my poor english
来自我的 Galaxy Nexus 上的 Tapatalk

pageniao said:
hei.connect to pc you can see a lot of drive to format？sorry my poor english
来自我的 Galaxy Nexus 上的 Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes,
When I connect it to my computer I see a large list of drives to format. the messages keep popping up from G: to V:

Roninceo said:
Yes,
When I connect it to my computer I see a large list of drives to format. the messages keep popping up from G: to V:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe i can help you.
can you see a new device called "QHSUSB_DLOAD" on PC "device manager" when you connect your phone to pc？
来自我的 Galaxy Nexus 上的 Tapatalk

pageniao said:
maybe i can help you.
can you see a new device called "QHSUSB_DLOAD" on PC "device manager" when you connect your phone to pc？
来自我的 Galaxy Nexus 上的 Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine says "QHSUSB_BULK"

see this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2477595
---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------
see this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2477595
and from chinese
http://bbs.gfan.com/android-6728131-1-1.html

pageniao said:
see this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2477595
---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------
see this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2477595
and from chinese
http://bbs.gfan.com/android-6728131-1-1.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ive seen the pages. Thanks for the help. I cannot get into recovery mode and unfortunately I can't read Chinese.

i dont know if you have tried this but i hear it works. it didnt for me, i keep getting a no memory error but if you get it to work can you please let me know how http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2451696

on chinese .this problem so easy.
来自我的 Galaxy Nexus 上的 Tapatalk

this worked for me, and will work for those of you who are stuck in recovery boot loop... this is caused from installing an att update on a rooted device with a custom recovery and or rom. so heads up, if your rooted and you have a custom recovery and or a custom rom, NEVER install a OTA update!!!
so folow the instructions in the link, basically while in twrp, you use the amazing terminal emulator feature to type in the foillowing command, and viola! your phone will boot into the OS!!! make sure to type it in exactly as shown , with spaces and all... good luck!
Code:
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/block/platform/msm_sdcc.1/by-name/fota
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2451696

Bricked Nexus 7

Hey guys,
a few hours ago I tried flashing the new Ldroid Rom onto my Nexus 7. After flashing the rom my tablet took ages to boot up and after the bootup it said i had to enter a password to encrypt the data (i never set encryption). after entering a random password android reported that the password was right but the data corrupt and i'd have to do a factory reset. after entering twrp i realized that the device couldn't mount anything except system. i wiped/formated everything except system and tried booting into android. this time i was stuck at the google logo. after entering recovery mode again now twrp couldn't mount system and sdcard. so i formated both and now i'm here with an absolutely empty nexus 7. i tried to use adb sideload to flash a new rom but my pc doesn't recognize the device and neither does fastboot. i tried reinstalling adb and fastboot drivers, i used universal drivers, i used drivers from toolkits, i did many many pc and tablet restarts, i reinstalled android sdk several times, i used different adb/fastboot locations, i even tried using a different pc trying the same steps. no change, only thing i get is that the tablet gets recognized by the device manager as an adb/fastboot device, nothing more.
Does anyone of you know a possible sollution for my issue?
Thanks in advance
P.S.: i've been researching the internet for this issue for the past hours and couldn't find any sollutions, so please don't say stuff like "use search function"
P.P.S.: My other devices get recognized without any issues with the same cable.

I would suggest using wugs awesome software you need to make sure all partitions are wiped and repaired to which ever format you are trying to use ext4 or f2fs and through wugs you can flash new ROM through fastboot wigs has save my ass a few times one should not try to do tedious tasks after a long night of drinking hope this helps let me know if ya need more
Sent from my d2lte using XDA Free mobile app

Masterloki666 said:
I would suggest using wugs awesome software you need to make sure all partitions are wiped and repaired to which ever format you are trying to use ext4 or f2fs and through wugs you can flash new ROM through fastboot wigs has save my ass a few times one should not try to do tedious tasks after a long night of drinking hope this helps let me know if ya need more
Sent from my d2lte using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply.
The thing is that the device doesn't get recognized in fastboot mode by the fastboot interface. But I'll try anyways as soon as I'm at home again...

Wugss also has a option to restore soft bricked devices that should do the trick for ya if all else fails
Sent from my d2lte using XDA Free mobile app

Masterloki666 said:
Wugss also has a option to restore soft bricked devices that should do the trick for ya if all else fails
Sent from my d2lte using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
didn't work :/ device doesn't get recognized by fastboot but it's shown as fastboot device in the device manager

OK check verify all partitions are set and you can try to use adb and you can push a new os I believe that should work
Sent from my AOSP on Grouper using XDA Free mobile app

Masterloki666 said:
OK check verify all partitions are set and you can try to use adb and you can push a new os I believe that should work
Sent from my AOSP on Grouper using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how can i do that?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=56749959 here's a post with syteps to fix and get you set up
Sent from my AOSP on Grouper using XDA Free mobile app

Masterloki666 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=56749959 here's a post with syteps to fix and get you set up
Sent from my AOSP on Grouper using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will not work as my device doesn't get recognized by fastboot.

OK are you on the latest twrp recovery if so you can go into that and enable mtp get the ROM and gapps and all other files you want to flash and drop them onto your device the only thing is it for some reason won't let you transfer zip files that's fine just rename from zip to txt
And it should work sorry for the delay in response hope that works for you lol
Sent from my d2lte using XDA Free mobile app

Excuse me I do not write good English. Today I had a similar problem. Tablet remained in bootloader and laptop does not see it
I used NRT function Back to Stock and click on Soft-Bricked / Bootloop.
Tablet runs on Lolipop
wwarrel: Dobrý:

Masterloki666 said:
OK are you on the latest twrp recovery if so you can go into that and enable mtp get the ROM and gapps and all other files you want to flash and drop them onto your device the only thing is it for some reason won't let you transfer zip files that's fine just rename from zip to txt
And it should work sorry for the delay in response hope that works for you lol
Sent from my d2lte using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no I don't even if I had, it wouldn't work because I have no system on the tablet...
wwarrel said:
Excuse me I do not write good English. Today I had a similar problem. Tablet remained in bootloader and laptop does not see it
I used NRT function Back to Stock and click on Soft-Bricked / Bootloop.
Tablet runs on Lolipop
wwarrel: Dobrý:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will not work because you need fastboot for it which is not working for me...

Alright I used my macbook for adb/fastboot and there it somehow recognized my device and I could use fastboot to do a factory reset. I still don't know why two independent windows systems did not recognize my Nexus 7 but I got it fixed. Anyways thanks to everyone who tried to help me in this thread!

[Q] broken N4

phone got wiped, os and all. can only get into team win recovery (no android with !). in recovery file manager there is NOTHING on the phone. can not get phone to be recognized by computer. used sdk to install drivers still nothing. can not activate usb debugging as there is no os. reboot in recovery gives warning no os on phone. there is nothing to restore, all folders in install tab are completely empty. is there anyway to save my phone? there is nothing on it...just enough for safe mode and recovery.

You need to get the computer to recognize your device. When booted into recovery and the device connected to your pc go to device manager and see what the issue is.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app

jd1639 said:
You need to get the computer to recognize your device. When booted into recovery and the device connected to your pc go to device manager and see what the issue is.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
got drivers installed sees the device as "android bootloader interface...a link to what to do from this point would work or step by step instruction on how to get os on phone would be great.

Paltirian said:
got drivers installed sees the device as "android bootloader interface...a link to what to do from this point would work or step by step instruction on how to get os on phone would be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've got two options
1. Flash the factory image.with fastboot. You'll then have to re-install twrp amrd root
2. Push a rom onto your device using adb in recovery. Then flash that in twrp
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app

jd1639 said:
You've got two options
1. Flash the factory image.with fastboot. You'll then have to re-install twrp amrd root
2. Push a rom onto your device using adb in recovery. Then flash that in twrp
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok...it is recognized in fast boot but not in recovery. as far as i knew i only need the usb drivers that come from sdk as it is a google device. is there another driver set i need from recovery. where could i find super simple instructions of how to flash image? and if i didnt care about re rooting could i just use fast boot to flash iamge and run with that?

Paltirian said:
ok...it is recognized in fast boot but not in recovery. as far as i knew i only need the usb drivers that come from sdk as it is a google device. is there another driver set i need from recovery. where could i find super simple instructions of how to flash image? and if i didnt care about re rooting could i just use fast boot to flash iamge and run with that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simplest way is to download the factory image. Google nexus factory image. It's a .tgz file. Extract it using 7-zip. There's a flash-all.bat file in there. Boot into the bootloader and with your device connected to the pc just double click the flash-all.bat. It will wipe your device so if you can, backup first.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Free mobile app

You are my freaking hero. I'd give you a hug if i could. Will root tomorrow or so... Have you tried lollipop and would you recommend it over KitKat? Again ty so much

Paltirian said:
You are my freaking hero. I'd give you a hug if i could. Will root tomorrow or so... Have you tried lollipop and would you recommend it over KitKat? Again ty so much
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem, glad you got it working. I like lollipop. It looks different but once you get over the difference you like it. I'm running 5.0.1
Sent from my Nexus 9 using XDA Free mobile app

Frustrating TWRP Issue

Hey, so today I wanted to install a new ROM on my SM-N900 Note 3. I flashed TWRP, and rebooted. Then I booted into TWRP and opened Android File transfer on my Mac. It kept saying please connect USB device. Other parts of the system do not read the device, however TWRP says the device is charging from my Mac's USB port. I moved to my Windows computer and connected the device. Still nothing. I tried multiple USB cables both 2.0 and 3.0. Nothing works! Can someone help me? I have no OS installed! I don't want to use ODIN or download mode because I would prefer to the install the ROM I'm trying to install because it seems silly that I have recovery access but can't access the file transfer.
Thanks, Justin

No SD Card?
justinxfan said:
Hey, so today I wanted to install a new ROM on my SM-N900 Note 3. I flashed TWRP, and rebooted. Then I booted into TWRP and opened Android File transfer on my Mac. It kept saying please connect USB device. Other parts of the system do not read the device, however TWRP says the device is charging from my Mac's USB port. I moved to my Windows computer and connected the device. Still nothing. I tried multiple USB cables both 2.0 and 3.0. Nothing works! Can someone help me? I have no OS installed! I don't want to use ODIN or download mode because I would prefer to the install the ROM I'm trying to install because it seems silly that I have recovery access but can't access the file transfer.
Thanks, Justin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
via PC, Odin is the easiest way.
va Mobile, Recovery + ROM in SD card is the easiest way.

nijom said:
via PC, Odin is the easiest way.
va Mobile, Recovery + ROM in SD card is the easiest way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used ODIN before but I had thought was incompatible with zips. I'll try it today though. And no, I don't have an SD card. I'm trying to move the files into my internal storage.
Thanks, Justin.

MTP doesn't work with TWRP. You'll have to use adb and push the zip to your internal storage. Then flash it through TWRP.
There are many guides on how to do this, it is very simple. Good luck
Edit- i see you're using a mac, not sure if adb works on there.. never tried myself.. always installed linux on any apple product i've owned
I haven't researched it so it might work straight away, but if not just create a vm with xp, ubuntu or something and use adb through there
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

celderic said:
MTP doesn't work with TWRP. You'll have to use adb and push the zip to your internal storage. Then flash it through TWRP.
There are many guides on how to do this, it is very simple. Good luck
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's strange, I'm pretty sure my old Nexus 7 could do this. Oh well.
Code:
adb devices
does not work. It doesn't show the device in recovery. File transfer and ADB only work while the OS is booted up.

justinxfan said:
That's strange, I'm pretty sure my old Nexus 7 could do this. Oh well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same with my old S2
It's a bug with TWRP for the n9005, i posted in the thread 4 or 5 months ago.
Sorry i've just finished work, will be back in an hour or two.
I thiught there was an ADB button in TWRP?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

celderic said:
Same with my old S2
It's a bug with TWRP for the n9005, i posted in the thread 4 or 5 months ago.
Sorry i've just finished work, will be back in an hour or two.
I thiught there was an ADB button in TWRP?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a button in TWRP called disable MTP or enable MTP. It has no effect. I cannot find any sign of a ADB button.

justinxfan said:
There's a button in TWRP called disable MTP or enable MTP. It has no effect. I cannot find any sign of a ADB button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ADB sideload, under the advanced tab.
https://twrp.me/faq/ADBSideload.html
I just looked myself and it is there.. if there's a way of taking screenshots in recovery, somebody let me know and i'll post a pic here
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Ahhh I've seen that button before. Didn't jnowbwhat it did so I didn't touch it. Now that I understand it, I'll give it a try.
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app

justinxfan said:
Ahhh I've seen that button before. Didn't jnowbwhat it did so I didn't touch it. Now that I understand it, I'll give it a try.
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck! Let me know if you run into any problems.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Nope. Not working. Started ADB sideload from TWRP and tried to push in a random zip from my computer (about 2 mb). it said error: device not found.

bump

Someone can clarify this?