[Q] Nexus 4 battery dead and cant recharge - Nexus 4 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting

So i was on my phone and the battery dropped to 0 and died. I went to plug it in and nothing. I am using the stock charger and everything. There is no red led to any sign of life at all. I have tried holding the power button and holding power and volume- etc. So i went ahead and removed the battery for 5 minutes. I connected it and still nothing. Anyone have any ideas? Its not the red LED bug and the phone worked fine before, only when it dropped to 0 it got screwy.
Thanks

How did you remove the battery? I thought that was impossible with this phone.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

Leave it charging over a night or remove the battery and charge it externally
Sent from my Nexus 4

srsalt said:
So i was on my phone and the battery dropped to 0 and died. I went to plug it in and nothing. I am using the stock charger and everything. There is no red led to any sign of life at all. I have tried holding the power button and holding power and volume- etc. So i went ahead and removed the battery for 5 minutes. I connected it and still nothing. Anyone have any ideas? Its not the red LED bug and the phone worked fine before, only when it dropped to 0 it got screwy.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
charge it for 8 hours switched off state and it will work fine. You are lucky enough that you didn't face the RED SCREEN of DEATH.. :good:

Rohit02 said:
You are lucky enough that you didn't face the RED SCREEN of DEATH.. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Care to elaborate? Never heard of this phenomenon on a Nexus.

dwegiel said:
Care to elaborate? Never heard of this phenomenon on a Nexus.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here you go. : RED Notifcaiton light of Death
AND A FIX : Fix for the Red led light of death
Press thanks if I helped you. :good:

Because the battery did not have energy to say that was charging....i had same problem with xperia sola...during charging nothing happened...
Inviato dal mio Nexus 4 usando Tapatalk 4

asphaltsally said:
How did you remove the battery? I thought that was impossible with this phone.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is : you have to remove 2 torcs screws on each side of the usb plug

Sorry for not updating I've been rather busy. I am receiving a replacement phone. Yes i tried charging it for blank amount of time and every other possible combination. Any one else with this problem contact Google support as soon as possible because nothing is guaranteed to work, Chances are the battery is done.

Rohit02 said:
Here you go. : RED Notifcaiton light of Death
AND A FIX : Fix for the Red led light of death
Press thanks if I helped you. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the RED LED of death, not SCREEN. Hence I was lost. I knew about this. Thanks for the reply.

My Red light fix
Hello,
I just had the problem with my Nexus where it displays the red led.
Once I first saw it flashing I unplugged the charger then plugged back in, The nothing would appear no charging icon or red light.
How I fixed it,
I left it plugged in for 20min then unplugged the charger, then hold down the power button for a good 20secs then plug cable in.
When i did this the red light appeared for about 1 min the it went to the charging screen, Once fully charged I turned on and its sweet.

Related

bricked? red flashing led

Just got my nexus 4, and after it was left in cwm for about 10 minutes (while I was making breakfast) it went to a black screen and now just the red led notification led is flashing whenever plugged in, and on my mac in system profiler it shows "composite device", any suggestions?
Thanks!
nycbjr said:
Just got my nexus 4, and after it was left in cwm for about 10 minutes (while I was making breakfast) it went to a black screen and now just the red led notification led is flashing whenever plugged in, and on my mac in system profiler it shows "composite device", any suggestions?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is your device hot to the touch?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using xda premium
20 second press on power button
No luck
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Don't know if you want to do this, but you can open the phone and disconnect and reconnect the battery connector...
What was your battery level, I know in other devices some times the CPU(s) run at full speed in recovery allowing for quicker flashing this could discharge the battery rapidly. Also a flashing red LED when plugged in normally means the phone is charging but doesn't have enough charge to reliably turn on, leave it plugged in for about 15 minutes and try turning it on again.
Try holding down the VOL + and - keys along with the powerbutton (after turning it off by holding down the power button for an extended time) and see if you can get into fastboot. My friend's Nexus 4 kept bootlooping after he unlocked the bootloader but booted straight to CWM after, not letting it erase userdata first.
Net.silb said:
Don't know if you want to do this, but you can open the phone and disconnect and reconnect the battery connector...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no problem doing this, the phone seems easy to disassemble, looks alot like a overgrown iPhone 4, 2 screws on the bottom. I just hope its an easy slide, I don;t want to mar it in case I have to exchange it.
jakejm79 said:
What was your battery level, I know in other devices some times the CPU(s) run at full speed in recovery allowing for quicker flashing this could discharge the battery rapidly. Also a flashing red LED when plugged in normally means the phone is charging but doesn't have enough charge to reliably turn on, leave it plugged in for about 15 minutes and try turning it on again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought this as well, its been plugged in for at least an hour now.
Oh and now I don't even get the red led!
good times..
I've got the exact same issue. Plugged it in last night to charge and this morning it wouldn't turn on. Plugged and unplugged it and the red LED starts flashing. After a minute or so I'm getting the battery charge animation on the screen - so the red LED is power related. Now to see if it actually charges up and boots.
Hi nycbjr. I have seen a similar issue posted here, but I can't find the thread at the moment, try searching. If I remember correctly then he got it working by holding power, volume keys and then plugging in the charger.
nycbjr said:
I have no problem doing this, the phone seems easy to disassemble, looks alot like a overgrown iPhone 4, 2 screws on the bottom. I just hope its an easy slide, I don;t want to mar it in case I have to exchange it.
I thought this as well, its been plugged in for at least an hour now.
Oh and now I don't even get the red led!
good times..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try a different charger?
Unlucky
Get a Free £5 On a GiffGaff sim
Called google, they are sending me another one advanced replacement, so I can send the bad one back at me leisure.
Good customer service!
Qhsusb_dload
nycbjr said:
Called google, they are sending me another one advanced replacement, so I can send the bad one back at me leisure.
Good customer service!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi!! I have the exact same problem, unfortunately the phone is bricked! Does anyone know how to fix this? I saw a video on youtube Nexus 4 - JTAG Brick Repair Service
CalogeroIndorato said:
Hi!! I have the exact same problem, unfortunately the phone is bricked! Does anyone know how to fix this? I saw a video on youtube Nexus 4 - JTAG Brick Repair Service
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If u are fully bricked JTAG is the way to go.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2
Here seems to be a similar thread, maybe you'll find help there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2111947

[Q] Please help!! Nexus 4 died

My nexus 4 died. Can not boot. No respond but only red flash when plugged in with charger. I already unlocked my phone.
any one can help me?
huangkaiwisdom said:
My nexus 4 died. Can not boot. No respond but only red flash when plugged in with charger. I already unlocked my phone.
any one can help me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats the RED light of death. Its a battery problem. Some people have opened their phones and fixed it somehow. I suggest you get a RMA.
Addsome said:
Thats the RED light of death. Its a battery problem. Some people have opened their phones and fixed it somehow. I suggest you get a RMA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since I already unlocked my phone and flash recovery. Do I still under the warranty?
huangkaiwisdom said:
Since I already unlocked my phone and flash recovery. Do I still under the warranty?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not 100% sure but since what you did, did not cause the RED led they should fix it. Unless something you did made that happen. When did this happen and how?
Put it on charge overnight. It should boot into recovery.
Addsome said:
Thats the RED light of death. Its a battery problem. Some people have opened their phones and fixed it somehow. I suggest you get a RMA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Addsome said:
Im not 100% sure but since what you did, did not cause the RED led they should fix it. Unless something you did made that happen. When did this happen and how?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I was trying to root my phone, when It on Recovery mod, I left for a while, when I came back, the phone was very hot, and powered off. No response when hit the power button.
calyxim said:
Put it on charge overnight. It should boot into recovery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried. Keep in charge overnight. But still only Reg flash light.
huangkaiwisdom said:
When I was trying to root my phone, when It on Recovery mod, I left for a while, when I came back, the phone was very hot, and powered off. No response when hit the power button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, you might of done something wrong.. Why would you leave it while it was rooting? I dont know what to do. Maybe you did something to the battery. Since you say it was very hot the battery might of overheated and died. Was it hot throughout the phone? Or just the top section. You could always but a battery and replace it yourself.
Addsome said:
Hmm, you might of done something wrong.. Why would you leave it while it was rooting? I dont know what to do. Maybe you did something to the battery. Since you say it was very hot the battery might of overheated and died. Was it hot throughout the phone? Or just the top section. You could always but a battery and replace it yourself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's just the top section. Maybe I did something wrong. The phone showed the battery logo for one second. But back to Red light then.
Charge it the whole night with another charger, not stock
calanizzle said:
Charge it the whole night with another charger, not stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will try that. Thanks
I believe some have fixed thier problem by pressing down where the battery connects to phone
Plug it into a USB slot on your computer and repeatedly try and get into recovery. Worked for me when I got the red light. When you do get into recovery leave it there a while to charge.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Is there any way of avoiding this red light of death issue. I am worried that it will happen on my Nexus
droidmakespwn said:
Plug it into a USB slot on your computer and repeatedly try and get into recovery. Worked for me when I got the red light. When you do get into recovery leave it there a while to charge.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When plug into USB and connect to computer, it show the battery charge logo for seconds and back to red flash light. And I press volume up + power button, no flash but still Red light. nothing happened.
huangkaiwisdom said:
When plug into USB and connect to computer, it show the battery charge logo for seconds and back to red flash light. And I press volume up + power button, no flash but still Red light. nothing happened.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have adb access, boot to recovery there.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
droidmakespwn said:
Plug it into a USB slot on your computer and repeatedly try and get into recovery. Worked for me when I got the red light. When you do get into recovery leave it there a while to charge.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I got red light of death and believe me I understand how it feels.
Good news: You can come out of it
1. Plug into wall charger for 1 hour or so. Make sure the wall charger has has at least 5V and 0.7 A, lower than that can not make sufficient charge.
2. After one hour of charging, the red light should go off (It's ok even if its RED light is glowing)
3. take out the charger and press power + Vol Down
4. Holding above two buttons, insert your charging USB to phone
5. The red light should blink and after a while you should be in boot loader.
5.1. If it doesn't do it again (Holding above two buttons, insert your charging USB to phone)
5.2. If you are not getting it after say 15-20 tries, leave it for charge for some more time and then try
6. Once you are in boot loader screen, don't let the screen turn-off, that is every 20-30 secs keep pressing vol button.
7. After 2 mins, chose reboot option and your phone should reboot, you can see zero battery
Bad News: Even though you will come out of RED Light of Death, the battery will become very weak (Very!!) and if again it turns off due to low battery it will go to RED Light of Death again.
If you have warranty and you are rooted, flash Google Firmware when you are in fastboot and claim your Warranty.
Sadly, I am in Singapore and using US set, so I can't do that.
Let me know if it helped.

[Q] Flashing red light - recovery works but nothing else

Phone was on about 60%. Plugged in the charger, downloaded Bricked Kernel to add to my r11 Modaco Cyanogenmod rom. Ran antutu and the screen went to the charger symbol. Pressed the power button then the charger symbol went and the red light started flashing.
Read up on here and tried the volume up + power for 60 seconds and plugged in the charger. Nothing
Tried volume down + power for 60 sends and plugged in the charger - Google symbol then into bootloader. This allowed me to get into teamwin, where I could recover my backed up image. Pressed reboot. Nothing just the red light again.
Been on a 1.5a charger for over an hour and still flashing
I'm now trying the charger in recovery mode.
I would take the back off and disconnect the Battery but my darling Mrs has had a clearout so I don't have the right screwdrivers :/
Anyone had this particular combo?
Had the red led ligth too after flashing some roms and testing it out. It powers off and shows the red led. Nothing works. I noticed that my n4 was very hot so i let it cool down for about 3 hours. After that all was fine and my n4 booted up normal. Had a heart attack as i see this red led. I think it is becouse the n4 is overheating but dont know. Hope that helps you
sent from my AOSPA3+ Nexus⁴ with Tapatalk 4
ChaosChris said:
Had the red led ligth too after flashing some roms and testing it out. It powers off and shows the red led. Nothing works. I noticed that my n4 was very hot so i let it cool down for about 3 hours. After that all was fine and my n4 booted up normal. Had a heart attack as i see this red led. I think it is becouse the n4 is overheating but dont know. Hope that helps you
sent from my AOSPA3+ Nexus⁴ with Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
I did notice it was hot when it first happened. Its been a while now though and certainly feels cool to touch.
When I do boot into bootloader or recovery, as soon as I unplug the charger it turns off again. :/
Perhaps I'll leave it longer (in the fridge ) and try it again
mrew42 said:
Thanks
I did notice it was hot when it first happened. Its been a while now though and certainly feels cool to touch.
When I do boot into bootloader or recovery, as soon as I unplug the charger it turns off again. :/
Perhaps I'll leave it longer (in the fridge ) and try it again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It sounds that your battery seems to be defect. I know that some one on xda says that removing the backcover and then remove the battery and plug it in again solve that for him. Dont have the link right now but there is a thread about the red led issue. Try to Google it a bit
sent from my AOSPA3+ Nexus⁴ with Tapatalk 4
Thanks again
I found that thread but am currently missing the right screwdrivers to remove the back. That's for tomorrow when I can pick some up from the phone shop. Damned piece of crap LG nonsense. First no USB OTG and now this!!
Battery is definitely munged. Whenever I manage to get into Recovery (TWRP) tha clock is always back at 12:00.
Soon as I unplug the charger, even after an hour or so, it shuts down. After a full night just on charge, just the flashing red light, no response to pressing the power button.
Just gone through the Google replacement process, but being Thursday evening it will probably be Monday at the earlier before it turns up.
On a lighter note I stuck CM 10.1 on my wifes SGS. Apart from being smaller, slower and with a quarter of the memory, the Helium back restored without a hitch and I have virtually the same experience .....

[Q] Device not turning on

Please help, when i was flashing awesome beats, at the end of flashing my device's temperature is very high and then it turned off by itself. After that, my device wont turn on when i pressed the power button although my battery shows 50%+ before flashing.
I tried to plug the charge and the white battery charging indicators appeared but then the device went off again after a while. It happens repetitively, white battery charging shows up, and then turned off. When i tried to turn on the device while plugged into charger, a google logo appeared and then turned off. I can access the bootloader when pressing the vol down button while it's charging. Please help me, what's happening with my device? is it because the battery is fully depleted or maybe another issue? Thank you
Sorry for my bad language.
Seems like something went wrong during flashing.Flash the factory rom..it should clear away your problem
SeNt frOm my A\/\/€$♡/\/\€ NoTE 2 using xDa premium app
mannyvinny said:
Seems like something went wrong during flashing.Flash the factory rom..it should clear away your problem
SeNt frOm my A\/\/€$♡/\/\€ NoTE 2 using xDa premium app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've tried to flash the factory image but the problem still there. it wont turn on with charger unplugged, when it plugged, white battery charging indicator shows up, and then turned off with red led blink, after a while it turned on again with white battery charging indicator and again it turned off with red led blink, this happened repetitively. If i put my device in charge for a while, the red led wont blink again when it turned off after the white battery charging indicator, but it still wont boot..
ishall_07 said:
i've tried to flash the factory image but the problem still there. it wont turn on with charger unplugged, when it plugged, white battery charging indicator shows up, and then turned off with red led blink, after a while it turned on again with white battery charging indicator and again it turned off with red led blink, this happened repetitively. If i put my device in charge for a while, the red led wont blink again when it turned off after the white battery charging indicator, but it still wont boot..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too faced somekind of this situation when I flashed Jellybam rom on my GNex..it won't turn on for no reason..random freezing.overheat..I immediately flashed factory image but the problem was still there for about 3-4 days!! ! isn't this weird?? But it automatically got fixed in few days and I still don't know how! So don't worry..:good:
mannyvinny said:
I too faced somekind of this situation when I flashed Jellybam rom on my GNex..it won't turn on for no reason..random freezing.overheat..I immediately flashed factory image but the problem was still there for about 3-4 days!! ! isn't this weird?? But it automatically got fixed in few days and I still don't know how! So don't worry..:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what did you do in those 3-4 days to your device?
Thanks for the advice
I hope more member will come here and have another solution to my problem :fingers-crossed:
Nothing..was just dreaming a fairy comes and fixes my phone
SeNt frOm my A\/\/€$♡/\/\€ NoTE 2 using xDa premium app
mannyvinny said:
Nothing..was just dreaming a fairy comes and fixes my phone
SeNt frOm my A\/\/€$♡/\/\€ NoTE 2 using xDa premium app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha, i think i'll do the same until there's someone come to me and give me the solution :laugh:
Let it charge for couple hours before doing anything to it. How are you flashing the factory image? I recommend using one of the toolkit to guide you through.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Sometimes old school works.
Pull the battery and put it back in after 15 seconds
badboy47 said:
Let it charge for couple hours before doing anything to it. How are you flashing the factory image? I recommend using one of the toolkit to guide you through.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm flashing using fastboot.
nwtspam said:
Sometimes old school works.
Pull the battery and put it back in after 15 seconds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have the tools to open it.
Thanks for all of your advices, i think i've already fix my phone since it can boot again and i successfully restore my nandroid backup. I did charge my device using 3rd party charger with 2.0A for a couple minutes and then unplug it and charge using my original charger. and guess what.. it works hhe. Thank you all :good:
Glad its alive again. Next time make sure to feed it well. Don't let the battery die to 0%. Recharge it once u reach 5% to 10%.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
badboy47 said:
Glad its alive again. Next time make sure to feed it well. Don't let the battery die to 0%. Recharge it once u reach 5% to 10%.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks btw. the weird thing is, when i turned on the device, the battery is the same as just before it turned off. I think the battery is not depleted to 0%, maybe the device is malfunctioning or something.
ishall_07 said:
Thanks btw. the weird thing is, when i turned on the device, the battery is the same as just before it turned off. I think the battery is not depleted to 0%, maybe the device is malfunctioning or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm that is weird. Did you try wiping battery stats? If not, give it a try.

[Q] Dead phone fix?

Soon after downloading the Facebook and messenger app (not sure if relevant), my N4 died, which isn't unusual, happens maybe once a week. I tried all the usual fixes but this time was different for some reason. I'm running PA 4 Beta 4. There is zero response from the phone while unplugged no matter all the different power button combinations. When plugged in to PC or socket, the red light does appear when I press the buttons after a few seconds, but only while plugged in, no red light while simply "charging". Any help would be appreciated before I send it to get it professionally fixed.
Cheers,
Ger.
GxR92 said:
Soon after downloading the Facebook and messenger app (not sure if relevant), my N4 died, which isn't unusual, happens maybe once a week. I tried all the usual fixes but this time was different for some reason. I'm running PA 4 Beta 4. There is zero response from the phone while unplugged no matter all the different power button combinations. When plugged in to PC or socket, the red light does appear when I press the buttons after a few seconds, but only while plugged in, no red light while simply "charging". Any help would be appreciated before I send it to get it professionally fixed.
Cheers,
Ger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The red light wouldn't be on during charging anyways. Charge the phone from a wall socket instead of the USB port because it'll take a week to charge that way. Let the phone charge for a couple of hours and try again.
Sent with my Nexus® 10 minus 3
Berrydroidcafe said:
The red light wouldn't be on during charging anyways. Charge the phone from a wall socket instead of the USB port because it'll take a week to charge that way. Let the phone charge for a couple of hours and try again.
Sent with my Nexus® 10 minus 3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the advice man, however I left it charging overnight through the wall socket so not very confident of that
GxR92 said:
Thanks for the advice man, however I left it charging overnight through the wall socket so not very confident of that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the phone still won't boot? Can you get into the recovery?
Sent with my Nexus® 10 minus 3
Berrydroidcafe said:
So the phone still won't boot? Can you get into the recovery?
Sent with my Nexus® 10 minus 3
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, cannot boot into recovery, phone has been stone cold also the whole time so it doesn't look like its charging (7+ hours), like I said the only indication it is somewhat alive is that the red light does flash while it is plugged in but only while holding the volume down and power buttons. Other than that the phone is completely dead.
GxR92 said:
No, cannot boot into recovery, phone has been stone cold also the whole time so it doesn't look like its charging (7+ hours), like I said the only indication it is somewhat alive is that the red light does flash while it is plugged in but only while holding the volume down and power buttons. Other than that the phone is completely dead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With that, I think you need to call customer service and see if they can point you in the right direction.
Sent with my Nexus® 10 minus 3
Alright man, thanks alot for your help
Any luck? I have the same issue, it won't start and shows a red light when I hold down volume down and the power button. I talked to customer support and they told me to do the typical stuff, said to call LG instead.
uEih said:
Any luck? I have the same issue, it won't start and shows a red light when I hold down volume down and the power button. I talked to customer support and they told me to do the typical stuff, said to call LG instead.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No change, will drop it into my local electrical repair shop tomorrow and hope its not that expensive to get fixed, pretty frustrating to have your phone die for no apparent reason
GxR92 said:
No change, will drop it into my local electrical repair shop tomorrow and hope its not that expensive to get fixed, pretty frustrating to have your phone die for no apparent reason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could be wrong but I would think the issue is a dead battery, I would think replacing the battery would fix it but that's my opinion regarding what happened with mine, it was drained down all the way. Not sure if yours was almost dead but mine was very low and crashed, it tried to start again but I think the boot screen took up too much energy and it sucked whatever else the battery had.
GxR92 said:
Soon after downloading the Facebook and messenger app (not sure if relevant), my N4 died, which isn't unusual, happens maybe once a week. I tried all the usual fixes but this time was different for some reason. I'm running PA 4 Beta 4. There is zero response from the phone while unplugged no matter all the different power button combinations. When plugged in to PC or socket, the red light does appear when I press the buttons after a few seconds, but only while plugged in, no red light while simply "charging". Any help would be appreciated before I send it to get it professionally fixed.
Cheers,
Ger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thread will solve your issue. Its already reported many times.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2250454
Final fix for Nexus 4 red light of death
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
jaison thomas said:
This thread will solve your issue. Its already reported many times.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2250454
Final fix for Nexus 4 red light of death
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you done this? Where are the wires going into exactly? I can't secure it on anything from the battery flex cable.
OK just got a reply from the repair shop, this is what they said:
Task Type : HARDWARE
Notes : between layer of the mainboard the circuit is gone.
new mainboard: 229.-euro
Obviously I'm not going to pay for this, will try the fix in the thread linked but looks like a lost cause. uEih, best of luck with yours, let me know if you manage to fix it. Thanks to those who posted in this thread.

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