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Hi,
I'm just wondering if the type of flash memory used for onboard storage (the 16 or 32GB memory) can wear out over time, or if they last so long that it really shouldn't be a concern? Is the max read/write cycle something to be concerned about?
If you transfer data to the tablet frequently (via downloading from cloud), is it better to use the micro-SD or the onboard flash?
Just a theoretical question I guess. If flash memory lifespans are anywhere close to a couple years, this gives tablets with removable micro-SD a big advantage.
On magnetic hard drives, you could block out bad sectors if they wear over time. Is this done with flash memory?
Thanks for your opinion.
coachclass said:
Hi,
I'm just wondering if the type of flash memory used for onboard storage (the 16 or 32GB memory) can wear out over time, or if they last so long that it really shouldn't be a concern? Is the max read/write cycle something to be concerned about?
If you transfer data to the tablet frequently (via downloading from cloud), is it better to use the micro-SD or the onboard flash?
Just a theoretical question I guess. If flash memory lifespans are anywhere close to a couple years, this gives tablets with removable micro-SD a big advantage.
On magnetic hard drives, you could block out bad sectors if they wear over time. Is this done with flash memory?
Thanks for your opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it can wear out, and generally *much* quicker for any given sector than with magnetic media. That said, flash manufacturers know this, and build wear-leveling features into their firmware to account for it. For most people, it's unlikely to be an issue inside the life of the tablet, but it depends how you use it. If you keep the internal memory almost full, the wear-leveling algorithms don't have much room to work with, and you can kill the few remaining sectors much more quickly.
Burn out.....no unless it is hit with a powerful shock.
Now if you meant WEAR OUT.....then yes it can do that.
Two completely different things.
coachclass said:
Hi,
I'm just wondering if the type of flash memory used for onboard storage (the 16 or 32GB memory) can wear out over time, or if they last so long that it really shouldn't be a concern? Is the max read/write cycle something to be concerned about?
If you transfer data to the tablet frequently (via downloading from cloud), is it better to use the micro-SD or the onboard flash?
Just a theoretical question I guess. If flash memory lifespans are anywhere close to a couple years, this gives tablets with removable micro-SD a big advantage.
On magnetic hard drives, you could block out bad sectors if they wear over time. Is this done with flash memory?
Thanks for your opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just reading an article about IBM engineers creating a new type of non volatile memory that was better and faster than flash...I won't get into here, but in that article it also talked about the limitations of flash memory.
They said that regular flash memory has a 3,000ish write life span, commercial grade flash has about a 30,000 write life span. My guess is that is per sector or block or whatever they were not specific. In the article they equated the 3,000 write span to 3-5 years of regular consumer use.
I just put an SSD in my desktop at home and did a little research.
Most flash chips can withstand hundreds of thousands of write cycles per sector, but they do still do wear leveling.
Most of the time, you won't write too much stuff to a flash drive. However, in the presence of swap space, it can get written to quite a lot. My box now only has 2GB RAM, and I'm sure it's swapping a bit to the SSD, but I'm not worried since I'll be upgrading in a month or so, and will bump the RAM way up, and will use an OS that supports wear leveling.
Anyway, I don't think it will be much of a problem for a tablet. Most of the data on it will be pretty static, and I don't think they will do much swapping.
Digiguest said:
Burn out.....no unless it is hit with a powerful shock.
Now if you meant WEAR OUT.....then yes it can do that.
Two completely different things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean, if he means the exact words he used in the first sentence of his post? Yes, he used different wording in the subject line, but it was clear what he meant.
I've tried looking around at some technical descriptions of how Android works.
I still don't know how Android handles memory. I can't imagine it using the flash memory for swap space if the working memory required goes over the 1GB ram. The forum member who is upgrading his PC soon - I hope you upgrade your RAM really soon! Using SSD as swap space seems really hard on it.
I also don't really understand how Android handles closing of programs.
That's probably the biggest difference between the windows desktop experience and Android. In windows, you close the programs. In Android, it may or may not close when you use another program...who knows.
I suppose the idea behind Android is less task focused...if you're not using it, you probably don't need it?
coachclass said:
I suppose the idea behind Android is less task focused...if you're not using it, you probably don't need it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's just the opposite. That's what I've read.
Um, if your phone's NAND flash memory haven't worn out over the time you've used it. I don't see how it'd differ with a tablet. The life expectancy of the NAND flash used (probably MLC to cut down cost), will last longer much longer than you'll ever use it for. Heck, it'd last for at least 5 years under normal use if you use it with Windows 7. If it is Android (which barely writes anything under normal usage), it'll last at least twice as long. And yes, Android do swap when needed. You notice this when the tablet is super slow and unresponsive when running out of RAM (using a torrent app like ttorrent). It'll swap to the NAND flash and keeps doing so hogging all the cpu cycles making the tablet really slow.
From experience reading this board, if i was in the tablet making business, I would make one with like 4GB RAM, an unlock[ed | able] bootloader and crap battery life, just to see how many people here at XDA would buy the darn thing and try to make a ROM with battery battery life and OC.
The most verbose people here about the "Eww, only 1GB" types have probably moved on to primes and are demanding TF700T's or whatever is next.
In most cases, we're likely just better off screwing with Dalvik and tuning our TF101's ROMs. It's still a VM and Java involved after all, not assembly code running natively to start with.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk; and my TF101 is half a foot away!
I've proposed many times that asus should come out with a TF model called Asus Transformer Whiner's Edition TFwhine. In it, there will be 4gig of ram, 100gig of sdcard space, 30hr of bat life, paper thin, water proof, fingerprint proof, sticky as hell (for the butter fingers), and foldable full size PC keyboard. But I'm sure the whiners will find some other thing to whine about.
To me, 1gig of ram is enough. I've never had any issue with running out of ram. I'm serious. This has never come up for me. I mean, what the hell are people running that requires more than a gig of ram?
More RAM would be nice, but I'm more excited about Windows 8 and the new 'ultrabooks' that we'll see in the near future.
letsgophillyingeneral said:
More RAM would be nice, but I'm more excited about Windows 8 and the new 'ultrabooks' that we'll see in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you give us a few examples of when you couldn't do something because it only has 1gig of ram?
goodintentions said:
To me, 1gig of ram is enough. I've never had any issue with running out of ram. I'm serious. This has never come up for me. I mean, what the hell are people running that requires more than a gig of ram?
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Click to collapse
I have 2 other tablets and 2 phones with only 512mb of ram, even that seems to be enough for Android. IMO, anything over 1gb would be overkill.
goodintentions said:
Can you give us a few examples of when you couldn't do something because it only has 1gig of ram?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, I thought I was still on the Charge forums. The Charge only has half a gig.
just lou said:
I have 2 other tablets and 2 phones with only 512mb of ram, even that seems to be enough for Android. IMO, anything over 1gb would be overkill.
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Click to collapse
+1
Seriously!! What the hell are people doing that 1GB isn't enough. We used to run (some people still do) Microsoft Windows computers with less than a gig of RAM. It's ridiculous to even sit there and think, that you need more RAM on a phone or tablet.
The browser kinda eats up lots of RAM (if I have around 3-4 pages open, as usual, it eats around 400MB!!), and basically, just the GPU eats off 120MB of all the thing.
FYI, a fast teardown:
- 1024MB RAM
- From that, 728MB is available mostly (some kernels push it to 768MB tops)
- Booting the system, with all the Asus crap loads approx 220-240MB into RAM, including all the things (Launcher, settings, applications autostarting, widgets). And that's a pretty good ratio.
- Basically you now got less than 500MB RAM. If you have tons of widgets, that can reduce free RAM to 400MB. And we're at the same point as smartphones - except that our devices have a lot bigger display, with a lot bigger resolution (2.666666 times more pixels), what means, we need bigger graphics too, what increases application RAM occupation.
Conclusion: With the current setup, we can run less applications on a 1GB RAM tablet than on a 512MB RAM phone (assuming it's a mid-end device with HDPI WVGA display, like, a Galaxy S). That's why we need more RAM, if you increase it to 2GB, you get approx 1.6GB free RAM, 1.3 after system start, and with many apps open, you'll get around 200MB free.
Guess what? That means you're running to much lol. I've got about 450MB if one trusts the settings app; Google and Exchange services are eating at least 20 megs combined! Never mind crap that I don't actually use burning some too. Devices have limits, and 1GB seems to hold plenty until content creation enters the mix, and doing that on Android has more pressing limits in software and users than RAM available. Besides, 2GB tablets will more likely result in fatter apps to fill it than more space to run most apps. Just take a look at Minecraft PC.
My old development system had 1GB of RAM running FreeBSD, if you try to combine GCC, pidgin x 6 logins, Firefox x 20+ tabs, and streaming music with Flash on that laptop, it would all but hit a HCF. I could either compile or have a smooth web, or buy a more powerful laptop. I didn't need one because I could still fit everythig well enough inti its constraints, I wasn't about to start re-encodig lord of the rings whileni waited either.
goodintentions said:
I've proposed many times that asus should come out with a TF model called Asus Transformer Whiner's Edition TFwhine. In it, there will be 4gig of ram, 100gig of sdcard space, 30hr of bat life, paper thin, water proof, fingerprint proof, sticky as hell (for the butter fingers), and foldable full size PC keyboard. But I'm sure the whiners will find some other thing to whine about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nah, instead of a physical keyboard built in, it ought to hover on it's own and type by mental uplink, or project one in 3D if we can't do that one yet. That way ASUS can still make money off the dock .
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Actually, wasn't there supposed to be development from an MIT project, where it was a device that projected keyboards and "touch screens" on whatever surface you aim it at? It was like one of those projector things you always see in exhibitions and fancy places, where the projector interacts with the things blocking the projections, but more cellphone-like and computer-like.
Also, who could argue with more RAM? I think the thing that holds that idea is back is tablet space. Just wait for the next generation RAM/memory structures. STT-RAM, it will be a universal RAM-Memory! Non-volatile RAM ftw!
goodintentions said:
Can you give us a few examples of when you couldn't do something because it only has 1gig of ram?
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Click to collapse
Ubuntu TF101 = Not enough RAM lol
Android = More than enough RAM for now atleast
Sent from my tf Enigmatic V2 beta 1.65Ghz Panda.test cust kernel settings
And ultrabooks are irrelevant to this discussion. You can take your ultrabook and Windows 8 but that's at the point where it's not even remotely comparable to a tablet, much less an Android tablet like the TF101 or TF201 due to the hardware costs. The licensing cost of Windows 8 alone is going to increase the price significantly.
1GB of RAM is more than enough, this is meant to be an enjoyable, lightweight consumer tablet. Not a supercomputing cluster on the go. If you want more RAM you're on the wrong device. Go get an ultrabook or a laptop because you're attempting to cram your needs into 1GB of memory, not designed for your needs.
My 2 cents it is that the memory requirement is a function of Apps. Right now most tablet's are running apps with limited functionality. But as the processors get better, more and more traditional desktop and notebook apps will migrate to tablets. This will be especially true for people that have tablets, like the Transformer, that blur the line between a tablet and a notebook. One can imagine something like Photoshop CS5 running on a tablet and easily requiring 4 GB or more of RAM.
jerrykur said:
My 2 cents it is that the memory requirement is a function of Apps. Right now most tablet's are running apps with limited functionality. But as the processors get better, more and more traditional desktop and notebook apps will migrate to tablets. This will be especially true for people that have tablets, like the Transformer, that blur the line between a tablet and a notebook. One can imagine something like Photoshop CS5 running on a tablet and easily requiring 4 GB or more of RAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, absolutely. I am sure that in due time we will have tablets with like 20GB of ram. But for now, with the software we have now and the foreseeable future, anything more than 1GB of ram is just stupid.
But that's a completely misguided notion of where apps and tablets are headed. Memory is not a function of apps, at least not linearly or continuously. I see memory hitting a ceiling in terms of heat, space and cost. I see apps not being developed with serious work in mind. You cited photoshop as an example and I think that's just bizarre. This is a tablet. There's this misguided notion that all mobile devices have to converge to the desktop in terms of performance and usage and I think it's bizarre and insane. When you cram a desktop into a tablet what is that? Why even bother when you can go for a laptop that would probably cost half in terms of price and multiples in terms of comfort? Why would any company bother doing this? Why would Google even push Android in this direction?
It's a tablet. You have fun, maybe do typing and word processing at the maximum and in special use cases. But it's meant to be lightweight, enjoyable and made for ENTERTAINMENT. User input at a minimum, simple touch movements, big on audio and visuals. Look at the screen to read a book, watch a video, listen to music. Pull your finger around or tilt the tablet. Not sit there and furiously work on a Photoshop project. That's what a mouse, a full sized keyboard and a desktop computer were made for.
When you talk about a future where RAM increases to meet the needs of apps, Photoshop is on the Android market and CPU power similarly increases to meet the needs. It's no longer a tablet, it's a laptop without a keyboard. It will be priced ugly and its design and specs will match that ugliness.
Maybe in the future we will have hardware so slim and so energy efficient and an input system so perfect all computers will be touch tablets, wafer thin, bendable and capable of running as fast as the U.S. govs fastest superclusters and everyone can download a genome sequencer app that lets you sequence the human genome on every tablet redundantly for ****s and giggles and within two seconds but I highly doubt this future will arrive within our lifetimes. Any attempt to head there by cramming a desktop ideal into a tablet form factor is misguided IMO.
Tubular said:
But that's a completely misguided notion of where apps and tablets are headed. Memory is not a function of apps, at least not linearly or continuously. I see memory hitting a ceiling in terms of heat, space and cost. I see apps not being developed with serious work in mind. You cited photoshop as an example and I think that's just bizarre. This is a tablet. There's this misguided notion that all mobile devices have to converge to the desktop in terms of performance and usage and I think it's bizarre and insane. When you cram a desktop into a tablet what is that? Why even bother when you can go for a laptop that would probably cost half in terms of price and multiples in terms of comfort? Why would any company bother doing this? Why would Google even push Android in this direction?
It's a tablet. You have fun, maybe do typing and word processing at the maximum and in special use cases. But it's meant to be lightweight, enjoyable and made for ENTERTAINMENT. User input at a minimum, simple touch movements, big on audio and visuals. Look at the screen to read a book, watch a video, listen to music. Pull your finger around or tilt the tablet. Not sit there and furiously work on a Photoshop project. That's what a mouse, a full sized keyboard and a desktop computer were made for.
When you talk about a future where RAM increases to meet the needs of apps, Photoshop is on the Android market and CPU power similarly increases to meet the needs. It's no longer a tablet, it's a laptop without a keyboard. It will be priced ugly and its design and specs will match that ugliness.
Maybe in the future we will have hardware so slim and so energy efficient and an input system so perfect all computers will be touch tablets, wafer thin, bendable and capable of running as fast as the U.S. govs fastest superclusters and everyone can download a genome sequencer app that lets you sequence the human genome on every tablet redundantly for ****s and giggles and within two seconds but I highly doubt this future will arrive within our lifetimes. Any attempt to head there by cramming a desktop ideal into a tablet form factor is misguided IMO.
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Click to collapse
You should google graphene. That's where we're heading. Graphene is so strong and so conductive that electronic parts as thin as 1 atom thick could be made. We're talking ultra thin electronic devices in the near future.
I don't think 1GB RAM is enough for Honeycomb, I regularly find my free RAM dropping to double figures <70MB and the system requiring a reboot.
Even using a task killer over time will not free up the same amount of RAM as was available after the previous reboot.
Honeycomb memory management needs a massive amount of work before it can be left to control RAM on its own, I think 1.5-2GB RAM would be a much better solution
In my opinion, more RAM on Android devices is just to keep more applications in memory for multitasking.
I couldn't imagine that a 256mb game, or even a 2mb app, would benefit from a device having more ram than the size of the app.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
goodintentions said:
You should google graphene. That's where we're heading. Graphene is so strong and so conductive that electronic parts as thin as 1 atom thick could be made. We're talking ultra thin electronic devices in the near future.
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Click to collapse
http://arstechnica.com/science/news...hell-holds-the-secret-to-bendable-screens.ars
Here's another interesting one.
infazzdar said:
In my opinion, more RAM on Android devices is just to keep more applications in memory for multitasking.
I couldn't imagine that a 256mb game, or even a 2mb app, would benefit from a device having more ram than the size of the app.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The size of an app has nothing to do with how much RAM it consumes.
A prime example is firefox on a PC... around 17MB app, can use GB's of RAM due to memory leaks, and even without leaks, would still use a couple hundred MB
Viruses are another example, designed to use up as much system resources as possible while only being KB's in size
This is the 4th time I've opened my task manager today and realized I was using over a gig. It easy to use over a gig when its there
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
a phone OS using more ram than Vista??? not a good sign. God where are the AOSP roms already :crying:
Kernel knows it has more memory available so apps are more likely to stay in their suspended state, rather than removed from memory.
But I enjoy the 2GB of ram for sure.
dardani89 said:
a phone OS using more ram than Vista??? not a good sign. God where are the AOSP roms already :crying:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using RAM is not bad; needing RAM is bad. Android 4.0 can easily run with less than 400 MB, but some things can be a little faster when they don't have to constantly reload.
stuff said:
Kernel knows it has more memory available so apps are more likely to stay in their suspended state, rather than removed from memory.
But I enjoy the 2GB of ram for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Everything switches back instantly!!
One of the most frustrating parts of the HTC OneX for me was when i was reading a long page of comments on sites like the verge or typing up a forum post. If i left the browser to reply to a text or facebook notification, and then returned to the browser it would always reload a page, and at the top.
Even the (heavy) Sense 4 launcher would have to load up every now and then.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747
Voltage Spike said:
Using RAM is not bad; needing RAM is bad. Android 4.0 can easily run with less than 400 MB, but some things can be a little faster when they don't have to constantly reload.
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Click to collapse
i wasn't making fun of android, i was making fun of touchwiz. too much bloat.
If the RAM will mean Nova Launcher wont reload itself as much as it currently does on my Incredible, then that's reason enough for me.
Having had the 1X for a month the 2 gb ram was one of the reasons I switched.
The 2GB of ram (and LTE) has been excessively downplayed by the International crowd because..well..they don't have it. The fact is the 2GB of ram should allow a stock phone to reload things much less. If you want to look forward 6 months to a year, I think the difference will be potentially much larger when we start to see creative devs tweaking their kernels to really use this extra ram. This is a ground breaking hardware move. We haven't even really begun to see what is possible. Judging any of these based on stock software at release is pointless. Think about how much better other phones have gotten after a few OTA updates....this device, especially with the extra ram is really well equipped for a long time.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
jamesnmandy said:
The 2GB of ram (and LTE) has been excessively downplayed by the International crowd because..well..they don't have it. The fact is the 2GB of ram should allow a stock phone to reload things much less. If you want to look forward 6 months to a year, I think the difference will be potentially much larger when we start to see creative devs tweaking their kernels to really use this extra ram. This is a ground breaking hardware move. We haven't even really begun to see what is possible. Judging any of these based on stock software at release is pointless. Think about how much better other phones have gotten after a few OTA updates....this device, especially with the extra ram is really well equipped for a long time.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
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Click to collapse
This ^^^
Truth
XDA Mobile
By the time any phone will actually use 2gb of ram, im sure most of us will have moved on to a new phone already. Of course having the extra ram is good for bragging rights, but does it actually mean anything? I'll say no, but im sure some will argue that.
shook187 said:
By the time any phone will actually use 2gb of ram, im sure most of us will have moved on to a new phone already. Of course having the extra ram is good for bragging rights, but does it actually mean anything? I'll say no, but im sure some will argue that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they already make use of 1.1-1.2GB of ram out of the box running all stock software.......imagine if custom roms/kernels were available that make use of it....it's not far off....."by the time any phone will use" is closer than you think
jamesnmandy said:
they already make use of 1.1-1.2GB of ram out of the box running all stock software.......imagine if custom roms/kernels were available that make use of it....it's not far off....."by the time any phone will use" is closer than you think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is good in theory but everyone on here is talking like we have been missing two gigs all this time in our phones. If you are coming to the S3 from a single core phone of course this is night and day. My SGSII has NEVER.....I repeat NEVER run out of memory lost track multitasking or had to close out multiple apps to make room for more.....how many apps does one need sitting in a suspended state?.....I have 5 or 6 apps open at any given time with PLENTY of room for more...sure the extra ram is nice to have, but its completely unnecessary ....dual cores with a gig of ram have NO problem doing heavy multitasking .....ask anyone running as SGSII or Gnex.
The extra ram in the S3 is there to offset the loss of quadcore....its a nice helping hand to the Krait chip but not necessary for everyday multitasking that the average person does.....I don't know what phones alot of you guys are coming from but from the sounds of these posts they were serious under achievers.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
This is good in theory but everyone on here is talking like we have been missing two gigs all this time in our phones. If you are coming to the S3 from a single core phone of course this is night and day. My SGSII has NEVER.....I repeat NEVER run out of memory lost track multitasking or had to close out multiple apps to make room for more.....how many apps does one need sitting in a suspended state?.....I have 5 or 6 apps open at any given time with PLENTY of room for more...sure the extra ram is nice to have, but its completely unnecessary ....dual cores with a gig of ram have NO problem doing heavy multitasking .....ask anyone running as SGSII or Gnex.
The extra ram in the S3 is there to offset the loss of quadcore....its a nice helping hand to the Krait chip but not necessary for everyday multitasking that the average person does.....I don't know what phones alot of you guys are coming from but from the sounds of these posts they were serious under achievers.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
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Click to collapse
i think the reason you never saw your device running out of room is likely because the system knew how much memory it had to work with and was always adjusting things to accommodate as much memory....if the system had more memory available to it it can behave differently....it's not about "how many apps one needs in a suspended state", it's about "the more apps you can keep in a suspended state the quicker the apps will run for the user"
i know this isn't x86 and it's not windows, but the analogy still stands, consider Windows 7
if you build a pc using it with 2Gb of ram it will run just fine, it will use somewhere around 1Gb of ram sitting idle, using it for the prefetch cache to be ready to launch your most used apps while maintaining a safe amount of memory for sudden useage/overhead
if you upgrade that same pc to 4Gb of ram, it will use close to 2Gb at idle.....it's not quite linear as that but you can see a direct correlation between available memory and memory utilization
the Linux kernel behind android appears to work very similarly, it will keep the most called upon code in local memory so that it launches faster when next called upon. the more memory available to the kernel, the less time it can spend killing apps in order to maintain that same level of free memory for the unexpected execution of a new app
the more memory it has, if it is written/compiled to take advantage of it, the more potential for performance is there.
I would say the 2Gb of memory is more easily utilized than the additional redundant cores in the Exynos kit. I have been looking for some real data on Android and SMP but I know recently Intel made a rare public statement about how it is not ready for even dual core utilization. I don't think Intel would make such a specific claim without data. I don't think the Exynos users are really getting much good at all from the four cores other than synthetic benchmark scores and I think they could see more benefits down the road from more memory than redundant A9 older technology additional cores.
disclaimer: I am still learning about all this so if some smart guy comes along and sees something above that is not quite right....it's not because I am making this up....it's what I understand to be true based on reading.
jamesnmandy said:
i think the reason you never saw your device running out of room is likely because the system knew how much memory it had to work with and was always adjusting things to accommodate as much memory....if the system had more memory available to it it can behave differently....it's not about "how many apps one needs in a suspended state", it's about "the more apps you can keep in a suspended state the quicker the apps will run for the user"
i know this isn't x86 and it's not windows, but the analogy still stands, consider Windows 7
if you build a pc using it with 2Gb of ram it will run just fine, it will use somewhere around 1Gb of ram sitting idle, using it for the prefetch cache to be ready to launch your most used apps while maintaining a safe amount of memory for sudden useage/overhead
if you upgrade that same pc to 4Gb of ram, it will use close to 2Gb at idle.....it's not quite linear as that but you can see a direct correlation between available memory and memory utilization
the Linux kernel behind android appears to work very similarly, it will keep the most called upon code in local memory so that it launches faster when next called upon. the more memory available to the kernel, the less time it can spend killing apps in order to maintain that same level of free memory for the unexpected execution of a new app
the more memory it has, if it is written/compiled to take advantage of it, the more potential for performance is there.
I would say the 2Gb of memory is more easily utilized than the additional redundant cores in the Exynos kit. I have been looking for some real data on Android and SMP but I know recently Intel made a rare public statement about how it is not ready for even dual core utilization. I don't think Intel would make such a specific claim without data. I don't think the Exynos users are really getting much good at all from the four cores other than synthetic benchmark scores and I think they could see more benefits down the road from more memory than redundant A9 older technology additional cores.
disclaimer: I am still learning about all this so if some smart guy comes along and sees something above that is not quite right....it's not because I am making this up....it's what I understand to be true based on reading.
Click to expand...
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You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
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right on, yeah i agree it's overkill right now. I just think within the next two years, we will easily see multiple areas where having more is better than having less. I am thinking way outside the box but I am seeing visions of custom kernels that are doing some extreme caching, even running a VM type environment.....actually I am thinking of running Android and perhaps there will be an opportunity to run Windows RT or some desktop version of Linux simultaneously......something a device with even four cores and 1GB of ram would have a hard time doing.....and that's not to say it would run well on the S4 US version either, but it is certainly more suited for it
jamesnmandy said:
right on, yeah i agree it's overkill right now. I just think within the next two years, we will easily see multiple areas where having more is better than having less. I am thinking way outside the box but I am seeing visions of custom kernels that are doing some extreme caching, even running a VM type environment.....actually I am thinking of running Android and perhaps there will be an opportunity to run Windows RT or some desktop version of Linux simultaneously......something a device with even four cores and 1GB of ram would have a hard time doing.....and that's not to say it would run well on the S4 US version either, but it is certainly more suited for it
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I like the way you think
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tylerdurdin said:
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
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You are partially right. My sensation xl and my friends galaxy note works multitask pretty well with just 768mb and 1GB ram. But that was on Gingerbread. Once we upgraded to ICS multitasking suffers tremendously. He even blamed me for persuading him to do the update. For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
nativestranger said:
You are partially right. My sensation xl and my friends galaxy note works multitask pretty well with just 768mb and 1GB ram. But that was on Gingerbread. Once we upgraded to ICS multitasking suffers tremendously. He even blamed me for persuading him to do the update. For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
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I have to blame both device and OS....I am running ICS on my GS2 and have not even seen the slightest difference.....although my battery is just slightly worse.
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nativestranger said:
For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
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You must be running some early leeks cause some of my phones like the GS2 and the evo 3d are running ICS flawlessly.
I've moved over to 4.4 and been trying various ROMs, particularly Cyanfox and Neat. I decided to use ART, since that basically is where android is headed. I have over 200 apps on my phone and I haven't had any problem with any of them so far. I don't think that a normal user is really going to see a huge difference between ART and Dalvik. ART doesn't subjectively seem that much faster (and if your animation speeds are set fast enough, Dalvik can seem damn fast). Supposedly ART will give better battery life, but I can't verify that either. One thing I did notice is how much more space ART-optimized apps need. Fortunately, I had already remapped the PIT from 2gb to 4gb. If I hadn't done that, I couldn't use ART. My free space dropped from 2.3gb to 1.6gb. I think that is probably going to be a big issue in the future, as 4.4 (and likely 4.5, etc.) is supposed to be friendly to older devices and devices with lower RAM. I mean, if ART uses that much more space and you have a low RAM device, how many apps will you really be able to put on it? My S2 has 2gb device memory plus 16gb internal storage, which I was able to remap. What if you have, say 768gb plus 8gb, like an s-advance or other low to midrange phone? Like I said, that could mean not enough room to have ART and a large bunch of apps.
Im using ART too, i havent really compared space usage between it and Dalvik, but will do it the next time i full wipe
I feel the phone feels a little less laggy with art (not that it was laggy in the first place, but the transitions and all that feel slightly faster)
About the devices with less ram, if art really works the way its supposed to, the apps should consume less ram while opening/operating, although we have the space drawback (which would force users to either install apps to their sdcards if possible, or change the space allocated to apps)
Thy said it would run in lower performance devices (not that there wouldnt be any drawbacks in doing so)
I have been using ART on CeleriterRom 2.2 for about 8 weeks now. Seems speedy and stable.
Hey guys,
I wanted to ask if there is a benefit in having 8gb of ram instead of 6? Is it even possible to use that much on a phone?
All I've read till now was that developers could fill it with something but I can't think of anything. So I'm just asking out of curiosity.
I don't want a comparison of the 6 and 8 gig RAM versions of the OP5. It's really just about the 8gigs of RAM.
Thanks in advance
User422 said:
Hey guys,
I wanted to ask if there is a benefit in having 8gb of ram instead of 6? Is it even possible to use that much on a phone?
All I've read till now was that developers could fill it with something but I can't think of anything. So I'm just asking out of curiosity.
I don't want a comparison of the 6 and 8 gig RAM versions of the OP5. It's really just about the 8gigs of RAM.
Thanks in advance
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OP5 is so far one of the fastest phone you can ever get. You can't make it lag. I hope I answer even a slight part of your question.
I don't think the phone being fast is related to the amount of RAM.
Apps will eventually start consuming more resources and 8GB RAM will become a necessity in the future.
You can survive with 2 too, but 4 seems to be the standard now; next year 6 and in about 2-3 years 8.
Just depends on how well the phone can manage its own memory. But by default some stuff like mobile games take a lot of ram. Upwards to 400-600mbs of ram for just one app. Maybe just cut down on those or just accept that your device cannot keep everything in memory. Its ok to reload apps that are insanely big.
Yousvel said:
OP5 is so far one of the fastest phone you can ever get. You can't make it lag. I hope I answer even a slight part of your question.
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Like I had already mentioned. It wasn't about the phone.
I do have an OP5 myself ^^
It was really just about the huge amount of RAM
But thanks for your answer anyway ^^
Pwnycorn said:
I don't think the phone being fast is related to the amount of RAM.
Apps will eventually start consuming more resources and 8GB RAM will become a necessity in the future.
You can survive with 2 too, but 4 seems to be the standard now; next year 6 and in about 2-3 years 8.
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I've heard that there are minimal difference between the two versions of the phone.
User422 said:
I've heard that there are minimal difference between the two versions of the phone.
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RAM is the only difference. Multitasking is better on the 8GB model though.
you phone will suffer from low cpu speed before ''needing'' 8gb of ram for 1 single operation.
Having multiple app running in the background makes the experience more fun, but the phone loads app fast enough anyway.
In fact, I'm using greenify, so no need of 8gb.
And a lot of cell phone user will change their phone before it will come slow, or really need 8gb. see pixel2 thread, a lot of people thinking about changing to pixel, what a waste...
User422 said:
Like I had already mentioned. It wasn't about the phone.
I do have an OP5 myself ^^
It was really just about the huge amount of RAM
But thanks for your answer anyway ^^
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more RAM = less loading.
this saves you time because the app stays loaded in RAM (no processing). this saves battery because the processor isn't having to work every time you open it. with 8GB, i almost never close apps.
It is easy to say that the more RAM you have, more the OS will use it, and this will make it more dynamic, therefore faster. But I think this is not perceptible for the user.
I have a 8 GB version and the device gets 5GB RAM to boot up... this would not happen in a 4GB RAM of course but this extra RAM usage do not reflect to more speed in a way you can see it...
The RAM management is more affected actually by the SO itself. I never use more than 7.5 GB RAM but my games never stay in memory for more than a day. I think OOS shuts them down after 24 hours not being used.....
This is a much more technical perception of how the device handle 8GB. I think its more a future proof quality then a advantage in todays processing.