I've moved over to 4.4 and been trying various ROMs, particularly Cyanfox and Neat. I decided to use ART, since that basically is where android is headed. I have over 200 apps on my phone and I haven't had any problem with any of them so far. I don't think that a normal user is really going to see a huge difference between ART and Dalvik. ART doesn't subjectively seem that much faster (and if your animation speeds are set fast enough, Dalvik can seem damn fast). Supposedly ART will give better battery life, but I can't verify that either. One thing I did notice is how much more space ART-optimized apps need. Fortunately, I had already remapped the PIT from 2gb to 4gb. If I hadn't done that, I couldn't use ART. My free space dropped from 2.3gb to 1.6gb. I think that is probably going to be a big issue in the future, as 4.4 (and likely 4.5, etc.) is supposed to be friendly to older devices and devices with lower RAM. I mean, if ART uses that much more space and you have a low RAM device, how many apps will you really be able to put on it? My S2 has 2gb device memory plus 16gb internal storage, which I was able to remap. What if you have, say 768gb plus 8gb, like an s-advance or other low to midrange phone? Like I said, that could mean not enough room to have ART and a large bunch of apps.
Im using ART too, i havent really compared space usage between it and Dalvik, but will do it the next time i full wipe
I feel the phone feels a little less laggy with art (not that it was laggy in the first place, but the transitions and all that feel slightly faster)
About the devices with less ram, if art really works the way its supposed to, the apps should consume less ram while opening/operating, although we have the space drawback (which would force users to either install apps to their sdcards if possible, or change the space allocated to apps)
Thy said it would run in lower performance devices (not that there wouldnt be any drawbacks in doing so)
I have been using ART on CeleriterRom 2.2 for about 8 weeks now. Seems speedy and stable.
Related
This is the 4th time I've opened my task manager today and realized I was using over a gig. It easy to use over a gig when its there
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
a phone OS using more ram than Vista??? not a good sign. God where are the AOSP roms already :crying:
Kernel knows it has more memory available so apps are more likely to stay in their suspended state, rather than removed from memory.
But I enjoy the 2GB of ram for sure.
dardani89 said:
a phone OS using more ram than Vista??? not a good sign. God where are the AOSP roms already :crying:
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Click to collapse
Using RAM is not bad; needing RAM is bad. Android 4.0 can easily run with less than 400 MB, but some things can be a little faster when they don't have to constantly reload.
stuff said:
Kernel knows it has more memory available so apps are more likely to stay in their suspended state, rather than removed from memory.
But I enjoy the 2GB of ram for sure.
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Click to collapse
This. Everything switches back instantly!!
One of the most frustrating parts of the HTC OneX for me was when i was reading a long page of comments on sites like the verge or typing up a forum post. If i left the browser to reply to a text or facebook notification, and then returned to the browser it would always reload a page, and at the top.
Even the (heavy) Sense 4 launcher would have to load up every now and then.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747
Voltage Spike said:
Using RAM is not bad; needing RAM is bad. Android 4.0 can easily run with less than 400 MB, but some things can be a little faster when they don't have to constantly reload.
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Click to collapse
i wasn't making fun of android, i was making fun of touchwiz. too much bloat.
If the RAM will mean Nova Launcher wont reload itself as much as it currently does on my Incredible, then that's reason enough for me.
Having had the 1X for a month the 2 gb ram was one of the reasons I switched.
The 2GB of ram (and LTE) has been excessively downplayed by the International crowd because..well..they don't have it. The fact is the 2GB of ram should allow a stock phone to reload things much less. If you want to look forward 6 months to a year, I think the difference will be potentially much larger when we start to see creative devs tweaking their kernels to really use this extra ram. This is a ground breaking hardware move. We haven't even really begun to see what is possible. Judging any of these based on stock software at release is pointless. Think about how much better other phones have gotten after a few OTA updates....this device, especially with the extra ram is really well equipped for a long time.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
jamesnmandy said:
The 2GB of ram (and LTE) has been excessively downplayed by the International crowd because..well..they don't have it. The fact is the 2GB of ram should allow a stock phone to reload things much less. If you want to look forward 6 months to a year, I think the difference will be potentially much larger when we start to see creative devs tweaking their kernels to really use this extra ram. This is a ground breaking hardware move. We haven't even really begun to see what is possible. Judging any of these based on stock software at release is pointless. Think about how much better other phones have gotten after a few OTA updates....this device, especially with the extra ram is really well equipped for a long time.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
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Click to collapse
This ^^^
Truth
XDA Mobile
By the time any phone will actually use 2gb of ram, im sure most of us will have moved on to a new phone already. Of course having the extra ram is good for bragging rights, but does it actually mean anything? I'll say no, but im sure some will argue that.
shook187 said:
By the time any phone will actually use 2gb of ram, im sure most of us will have moved on to a new phone already. Of course having the extra ram is good for bragging rights, but does it actually mean anything? I'll say no, but im sure some will argue that.
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Click to collapse
they already make use of 1.1-1.2GB of ram out of the box running all stock software.......imagine if custom roms/kernels were available that make use of it....it's not far off....."by the time any phone will use" is closer than you think
jamesnmandy said:
they already make use of 1.1-1.2GB of ram out of the box running all stock software.......imagine if custom roms/kernels were available that make use of it....it's not far off....."by the time any phone will use" is closer than you think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is good in theory but everyone on here is talking like we have been missing two gigs all this time in our phones. If you are coming to the S3 from a single core phone of course this is night and day. My SGSII has NEVER.....I repeat NEVER run out of memory lost track multitasking or had to close out multiple apps to make room for more.....how many apps does one need sitting in a suspended state?.....I have 5 or 6 apps open at any given time with PLENTY of room for more...sure the extra ram is nice to have, but its completely unnecessary ....dual cores with a gig of ram have NO problem doing heavy multitasking .....ask anyone running as SGSII or Gnex.
The extra ram in the S3 is there to offset the loss of quadcore....its a nice helping hand to the Krait chip but not necessary for everyday multitasking that the average person does.....I don't know what phones alot of you guys are coming from but from the sounds of these posts they were serious under achievers.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
This is good in theory but everyone on here is talking like we have been missing two gigs all this time in our phones. If you are coming to the S3 from a single core phone of course this is night and day. My SGSII has NEVER.....I repeat NEVER run out of memory lost track multitasking or had to close out multiple apps to make room for more.....how many apps does one need sitting in a suspended state?.....I have 5 or 6 apps open at any given time with PLENTY of room for more...sure the extra ram is nice to have, but its completely unnecessary ....dual cores with a gig of ram have NO problem doing heavy multitasking .....ask anyone running as SGSII or Gnex.
The extra ram in the S3 is there to offset the loss of quadcore....its a nice helping hand to the Krait chip but not necessary for everyday multitasking that the average person does.....I don't know what phones alot of you guys are coming from but from the sounds of these posts they were serious under achievers.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
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Click to collapse
i think the reason you never saw your device running out of room is likely because the system knew how much memory it had to work with and was always adjusting things to accommodate as much memory....if the system had more memory available to it it can behave differently....it's not about "how many apps one needs in a suspended state", it's about "the more apps you can keep in a suspended state the quicker the apps will run for the user"
i know this isn't x86 and it's not windows, but the analogy still stands, consider Windows 7
if you build a pc using it with 2Gb of ram it will run just fine, it will use somewhere around 1Gb of ram sitting idle, using it for the prefetch cache to be ready to launch your most used apps while maintaining a safe amount of memory for sudden useage/overhead
if you upgrade that same pc to 4Gb of ram, it will use close to 2Gb at idle.....it's not quite linear as that but you can see a direct correlation between available memory and memory utilization
the Linux kernel behind android appears to work very similarly, it will keep the most called upon code in local memory so that it launches faster when next called upon. the more memory available to the kernel, the less time it can spend killing apps in order to maintain that same level of free memory for the unexpected execution of a new app
the more memory it has, if it is written/compiled to take advantage of it, the more potential for performance is there.
I would say the 2Gb of memory is more easily utilized than the additional redundant cores in the Exynos kit. I have been looking for some real data on Android and SMP but I know recently Intel made a rare public statement about how it is not ready for even dual core utilization. I don't think Intel would make such a specific claim without data. I don't think the Exynos users are really getting much good at all from the four cores other than synthetic benchmark scores and I think they could see more benefits down the road from more memory than redundant A9 older technology additional cores.
disclaimer: I am still learning about all this so if some smart guy comes along and sees something above that is not quite right....it's not because I am making this up....it's what I understand to be true based on reading.
jamesnmandy said:
i think the reason you never saw your device running out of room is likely because the system knew how much memory it had to work with and was always adjusting things to accommodate as much memory....if the system had more memory available to it it can behave differently....it's not about "how many apps one needs in a suspended state", it's about "the more apps you can keep in a suspended state the quicker the apps will run for the user"
i know this isn't x86 and it's not windows, but the analogy still stands, consider Windows 7
if you build a pc using it with 2Gb of ram it will run just fine, it will use somewhere around 1Gb of ram sitting idle, using it for the prefetch cache to be ready to launch your most used apps while maintaining a safe amount of memory for sudden useage/overhead
if you upgrade that same pc to 4Gb of ram, it will use close to 2Gb at idle.....it's not quite linear as that but you can see a direct correlation between available memory and memory utilization
the Linux kernel behind android appears to work very similarly, it will keep the most called upon code in local memory so that it launches faster when next called upon. the more memory available to the kernel, the less time it can spend killing apps in order to maintain that same level of free memory for the unexpected execution of a new app
the more memory it has, if it is written/compiled to take advantage of it, the more potential for performance is there.
I would say the 2Gb of memory is more easily utilized than the additional redundant cores in the Exynos kit. I have been looking for some real data on Android and SMP but I know recently Intel made a rare public statement about how it is not ready for even dual core utilization. I don't think Intel would make such a specific claim without data. I don't think the Exynos users are really getting much good at all from the four cores other than synthetic benchmark scores and I think they could see more benefits down the road from more memory than redundant A9 older technology additional cores.
disclaimer: I am still learning about all this so if some smart guy comes along and sees something above that is not quite right....it's not because I am making this up....it's what I understand to be true based on reading.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
right on, yeah i agree it's overkill right now. I just think within the next two years, we will easily see multiple areas where having more is better than having less. I am thinking way outside the box but I am seeing visions of custom kernels that are doing some extreme caching, even running a VM type environment.....actually I am thinking of running Android and perhaps there will be an opportunity to run Windows RT or some desktop version of Linux simultaneously......something a device with even four cores and 1GB of ram would have a hard time doing.....and that's not to say it would run well on the S4 US version either, but it is certainly more suited for it
jamesnmandy said:
right on, yeah i agree it's overkill right now. I just think within the next two years, we will easily see multiple areas where having more is better than having less. I am thinking way outside the box but I am seeing visions of custom kernels that are doing some extreme caching, even running a VM type environment.....actually I am thinking of running Android and perhaps there will be an opportunity to run Windows RT or some desktop version of Linux simultaneously......something a device with even four cores and 1GB of ram would have a hard time doing.....and that's not to say it would run well on the S4 US version either, but it is certainly more suited for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the way you think
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are partially right. My sensation xl and my friends galaxy note works multitask pretty well with just 768mb and 1GB ram. But that was on Gingerbread. Once we upgraded to ICS multitasking suffers tremendously. He even blamed me for persuading him to do the update. For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
nativestranger said:
You are partially right. My sensation xl and my friends galaxy note works multitask pretty well with just 768mb and 1GB ram. But that was on Gingerbread. Once we upgraded to ICS multitasking suffers tremendously. He even blamed me for persuading him to do the update. For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to blame both device and OS....I am running ICS on my GS2 and have not even seen the slightest difference.....although my battery is just slightly worse.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
nativestranger said:
For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
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Click to collapse
You must be running some early leeks cause some of my phones like the GS2 and the evo 3d are running ICS flawlessly.
I just read this http://androidandme.com/2013/06/opi...-from-the-best-to-worst-tablet-ive-ever-owned
I was wondering about that as well; aside from continued use, the lags are more evident when it reaches the 9gb mark.
I have a 32 GB ram Nexus 7 and seriously; out of the 32 GB, we actually only have 27.5 GB storage.
I usually need more than 9GB of storage free space so i can have a buttery smooth performance.
Estimate 9+ gb to 10GB which means i have 17GB left to work with.
So far, I only discovered 2 worthwhile apps in battling this Nexus 7 predicament for non root users.
Clean master and Forever Gone.
Clean master is a great app for clearing files and releasing load from the 1 GB Ram.
While forever gone seems to work better than restore factory settimgs., it is somewhat slow and inconvenient.
Anyway, is there any other way to have better performance out of the Nexus 7?
Up to how many GB of free space you leave off before it starts to lag?
There was a discussion about this on AAA last week, but no real conclusions as to what might be causing it. One thing they mentioned was the possibility of the flash based storage "giving out". One guy commented that there are no real garbage collection routines present, so without a lot of free space, storage must be manually erased before being written to, and that can take a lot of time. This is why SSD's have garbage collection or trim routines running at idle to erase unallocated blocks.
It sounds plausible as our tablets are either being used or sleeping, with no real idle time for garbage collection to occur. Of course this is all conjecture at this point. I certainly see more lag in my upcoming 1 year old N7, but nothing like the unresponsiveness originally reported by folks filling up their storage, nor the symptoms described in the article you referenced.
But when mine goes belly up, I plan to move to an iPad. The tablet experience on Android pretty much sucks IMHO, and in the better part of the year in which I have been using it, it hasn't got much better. Of the hundred + apps I have on it, I can count on my fingers how many of them are actually optimized for a tablet.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1971852
http://bgr.com/2015/04/28/galaxy-s6-vs-iphone-6-vs-htc-one-m9-comparison-speed-test/
Watch until the end!
:good::highfive::victory:
TouchWiz eats too much RAM requiring each apps to reload. Check out the Free RAM available on the S6 threads and you'll see that it barely has free RAM.
according to this, i should have gotten a iphone 6 (something that falls in between). Guess I'll have to chunk this M9 DevEd in the garbage and learn to like IOS ?
theveterans said:
TouchWiz eats too much RAM requiring each apps to reload. Check out the Free RAM available on the S6 threads and you'll see that it barely has free RAM.
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Click to collapse
Free ram is wasted ram. I highly doubt touchwiz is using so much memory it's causing other apps to be killed. It's more likely that Samsung got a little happy with killing apps in the background trying to save battery.
Probably will be fixed in a update...
Hoping HTC is able to optimize for the s810 as well, as it seems very poorly optimized atm
xxquicksh0txx said:
Free ram is wasted ram. I highly doubt touchwiz is using so much memory it's causing other apps to be killed. It's more likely that Samsung got a little happy with killing apps in the background trying to save battery.
Probably will be fixed in a update...
Hoping HTC is able to optimize for the s810 as well, as it seems very poorly optimized atm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, if the RAM is taken over by just the UI and System, it's a wasted RAM. How come M9 usually has over 1 GB of Free RAM yet it can load all of the apps that are cached in RAM while S6 has about 200 MB Free yet it reloads apps EVEN IF those are supposed to be CACHED. I suspect a memory bloat where there's little RAM available for APPS to cache properly.
all that this video show is the following:
- persistent software issues on the Samsungs like hangs and needless killing apps out of RAM
- the s810 / DDR4 / 3GB combo on the M9 quality software really shines when it comes to multitasking
- Apple's high IPC from just two cores should be a big a lesson to anyone building Android SoCs
Hello! I am thinking about changing my poor old Oneplus One for this beast. But I am worried about the RAM quantity. At this moment I have 3GB RAM and I don't know if 4 will be enough.
Isn't TouchWiz 4GB = 3GB AOSP debloated?
silverkin said:
Hello! I am thinking about changing my poor old Oneplus One for this beast. But I am worried about the RAM quantity. At this moment I have 3GB RAM and I don't know if 4 will be enough.
Isn't TouchWiz 4GB = 3GB AOSP debloated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it is enough + you won't keep your phone for more than 2-3 years. TouchWiz got better, but not perfect. My phone still has ~1.5 GB of Ram left. My notebook has 4 GB Ram with fast SSD, don't see any slowdowns on Win 10 Pro.
With the poor ram management 2.5 GB is enough because at no point it uses more than that on our phones. I have apps refreshing when I come back but only half of ram is being used.
in my opinion, 4gb is not enough..... For that kind of high-end phone, samsung should have put 6Go at least into it. I'm talking about ram managment which is pretty bad in android and when you take a look at speedtests (even if this is not reflecting real daily uses) you can see than phone with 6go of ram are able to keep many apps in memory way better than the s8. When you start to run heavy apps or games, the built-in memory killer kills a lots of background app and then when you need to switch back into an other recent app, the phone almost reload it :'( That's frustrating
4GB Ram is enough. More RAM means more apps running in background which means more battery consumption. So 4GB looks a good balance here atleast for S8 which has only 3000 mah battery.
i don't think so excuse me. Of course, more ram maybe means more battery consumption but i prefer that and kill apps runing in background manually to keep battery life rather than the os kills things that i still need :/
When you have 4gb then 4gb isnt enough, when you have 6gb then 6gb isn't enough... its never enough.
4GB is enough for most any smartphone. I also have a OnePlus 3 with 6GB ram and while it can keep more programs running in the background, it never totally accesses the entire 6GB ram. Read this XDA article on RAM: https://www.xda-developers.com/the-ram-conundrum-do-we-really-need-6gb-ram-on-android/
4 is enough, and please after buying it do not ask about why just a little of it is free! The ram is for holding services and apps in background so cpu should not work again to bring them up, if it's filled do not be sad, it's natural.
roro97230 said:
in my opinion, 4gb is not enough..... For that kind of high-end phone, samsung should have put 6Go at least into it. I'm talking about ram managment which is pretty bad in android and when you take a look at speedtests (even if this is not reflecting real daily uses) you can see than phone with 6go of ram are able to keep many apps in memory way better than the s8. When you start to run heavy apps or games, the built-in memory killer kills a lots of background app and then when you need to switch back into an other recent app, the phone almost reload it :'( That's frustrating
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why should you want to keep many apps in memory? The S8 loads them so quick anyway.
Who needs in real day use to keep in memory 5-6 games plus 6-7 apps ? That's what they are doing in speed test , but in every day use it's not need for 6-8 GB ram in this moment. In my opinion for the manufacturer it's simpler to put more ram in a phone instead a better over all optimization.
Since android 13 upgrade (wasn't amazing before but certainly was much worse since 13) i've been getting really inconsistent gaming performance.
But not in a way that dipped the FPS -- as system status in games was showing good fps but the game felt jittery / laggy and overall very inconsistent.
Been driving me nuts to the point where i'd almost stopped gaming on it because it was so disappointing. Was going to send my phone into Oppo for warranty claim it was that bad.
Decided to try and be a little more analytical about it and look at the individual element scores on antutu and i saw my RAM performance was pretty bad.
Played with a few settings but nothing seemed to do much until i remember about Ram expansion (using storage as back-fill ram) and tried turning that off (reboot after).
Well, my antutu score has gone from 720k to 806k in normal mode and ~830k in performance mode (since antutu isn't recognised as a game to automatically do that)
Games are now totally smooth again, no lag. It's almost like a new phone.
My thoughts are that the android implementation of this either doesn't properly keep active high-demand stuff from swapping into this expanded ram or that android just doesn't handle the scheduling of this properly.
Either way -- for me its way more valuable turned off for overall performance and stability.
Did the same already some time ago, can not understand why in the first place. that a phone with this huge amount of ram already factory installed, would need another 3 GB of ram.
Mr.Anderson01 said:
Did the same already some time ago, can not understand why in the first place. that a phone with this huge amount of ram already factory installed, would need another 3 GB of ram.
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Click to collapse
Technically it doesn't i guess... maybe for a ram constrained phone ... but then if it's costing performance cos of a bad implementation then it's a lose-lose position.
My phone is noticeably more consistent on performance with this feature disabled.