From experience reading this board, if i was in the tablet making business, I would make one with like 4GB RAM, an unlock[ed | able] bootloader and crap battery life, just to see how many people here at XDA would buy the darn thing and try to make a ROM with battery battery life and OC.
The most verbose people here about the "Eww, only 1GB" types have probably moved on to primes and are demanding TF700T's or whatever is next.
In most cases, we're likely just better off screwing with Dalvik and tuning our TF101's ROMs. It's still a VM and Java involved after all, not assembly code running natively to start with.
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk; and my TF101 is half a foot away!
I've proposed many times that asus should come out with a TF model called Asus Transformer Whiner's Edition TFwhine. In it, there will be 4gig of ram, 100gig of sdcard space, 30hr of bat life, paper thin, water proof, fingerprint proof, sticky as hell (for the butter fingers), and foldable full size PC keyboard. But I'm sure the whiners will find some other thing to whine about.
To me, 1gig of ram is enough. I've never had any issue with running out of ram. I'm serious. This has never come up for me. I mean, what the hell are people running that requires more than a gig of ram?
More RAM would be nice, but I'm more excited about Windows 8 and the new 'ultrabooks' that we'll see in the near future.
letsgophillyingeneral said:
More RAM would be nice, but I'm more excited about Windows 8 and the new 'ultrabooks' that we'll see in the near future.
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Can you give us a few examples of when you couldn't do something because it only has 1gig of ram?
goodintentions said:
To me, 1gig of ram is enough. I've never had any issue with running out of ram. I'm serious. This has never come up for me. I mean, what the hell are people running that requires more than a gig of ram?
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I have 2 other tablets and 2 phones with only 512mb of ram, even that seems to be enough for Android. IMO, anything over 1gb would be overkill.
goodintentions said:
Can you give us a few examples of when you couldn't do something because it only has 1gig of ram?
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Sorry, I thought I was still on the Charge forums. The Charge only has half a gig.
just lou said:
I have 2 other tablets and 2 phones with only 512mb of ram, even that seems to be enough for Android. IMO, anything over 1gb would be overkill.
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+1
Seriously!! What the hell are people doing that 1GB isn't enough. We used to run (some people still do) Microsoft Windows computers with less than a gig of RAM. It's ridiculous to even sit there and think, that you need more RAM on a phone or tablet.
The browser kinda eats up lots of RAM (if I have around 3-4 pages open, as usual, it eats around 400MB!!), and basically, just the GPU eats off 120MB of all the thing.
FYI, a fast teardown:
- 1024MB RAM
- From that, 728MB is available mostly (some kernels push it to 768MB tops)
- Booting the system, with all the Asus crap loads approx 220-240MB into RAM, including all the things (Launcher, settings, applications autostarting, widgets). And that's a pretty good ratio.
- Basically you now got less than 500MB RAM. If you have tons of widgets, that can reduce free RAM to 400MB. And we're at the same point as smartphones - except that our devices have a lot bigger display, with a lot bigger resolution (2.666666 times more pixels), what means, we need bigger graphics too, what increases application RAM occupation.
Conclusion: With the current setup, we can run less applications on a 1GB RAM tablet than on a 512MB RAM phone (assuming it's a mid-end device with HDPI WVGA display, like, a Galaxy S). That's why we need more RAM, if you increase it to 2GB, you get approx 1.6GB free RAM, 1.3 after system start, and with many apps open, you'll get around 200MB free.
Guess what? That means you're running to much lol. I've got about 450MB if one trusts the settings app; Google and Exchange services are eating at least 20 megs combined! Never mind crap that I don't actually use burning some too. Devices have limits, and 1GB seems to hold plenty until content creation enters the mix, and doing that on Android has more pressing limits in software and users than RAM available. Besides, 2GB tablets will more likely result in fatter apps to fill it than more space to run most apps. Just take a look at Minecraft PC.
My old development system had 1GB of RAM running FreeBSD, if you try to combine GCC, pidgin x 6 logins, Firefox x 20+ tabs, and streaming music with Flash on that laptop, it would all but hit a HCF. I could either compile or have a smooth web, or buy a more powerful laptop. I didn't need one because I could still fit everythig well enough inti its constraints, I wasn't about to start re-encodig lord of the rings whileni waited either.
goodintentions said:
I've proposed many times that asus should come out with a TF model called Asus Transformer Whiner's Edition TFwhine. In it, there will be 4gig of ram, 100gig of sdcard space, 30hr of bat life, paper thin, water proof, fingerprint proof, sticky as hell (for the butter fingers), and foldable full size PC keyboard. But I'm sure the whiners will find some other thing to whine about.
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Nah, instead of a physical keyboard built in, it ought to hover on it's own and type by mental uplink, or project one in 3D if we can't do that one yet. That way ASUS can still make money off the dock .
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk
Actually, wasn't there supposed to be development from an MIT project, where it was a device that projected keyboards and "touch screens" on whatever surface you aim it at? It was like one of those projector things you always see in exhibitions and fancy places, where the projector interacts with the things blocking the projections, but more cellphone-like and computer-like.
Also, who could argue with more RAM? I think the thing that holds that idea is back is tablet space. Just wait for the next generation RAM/memory structures. STT-RAM, it will be a universal RAM-Memory! Non-volatile RAM ftw!
goodintentions said:
Can you give us a few examples of when you couldn't do something because it only has 1gig of ram?
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Ubuntu TF101 = Not enough RAM lol
Android = More than enough RAM for now atleast
Sent from my tf Enigmatic V2 beta 1.65Ghz Panda.test cust kernel settings
And ultrabooks are irrelevant to this discussion. You can take your ultrabook and Windows 8 but that's at the point where it's not even remotely comparable to a tablet, much less an Android tablet like the TF101 or TF201 due to the hardware costs. The licensing cost of Windows 8 alone is going to increase the price significantly.
1GB of RAM is more than enough, this is meant to be an enjoyable, lightweight consumer tablet. Not a supercomputing cluster on the go. If you want more RAM you're on the wrong device. Go get an ultrabook or a laptop because you're attempting to cram your needs into 1GB of memory, not designed for your needs.
My 2 cents it is that the memory requirement is a function of Apps. Right now most tablet's are running apps with limited functionality. But as the processors get better, more and more traditional desktop and notebook apps will migrate to tablets. This will be especially true for people that have tablets, like the Transformer, that blur the line between a tablet and a notebook. One can imagine something like Photoshop CS5 running on a tablet and easily requiring 4 GB or more of RAM.
jerrykur said:
My 2 cents it is that the memory requirement is a function of Apps. Right now most tablet's are running apps with limited functionality. But as the processors get better, more and more traditional desktop and notebook apps will migrate to tablets. This will be especially true for people that have tablets, like the Transformer, that blur the line between a tablet and a notebook. One can imagine something like Photoshop CS5 running on a tablet and easily requiring 4 GB or more of RAM.
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Oh, absolutely. I am sure that in due time we will have tablets with like 20GB of ram. But for now, with the software we have now and the foreseeable future, anything more than 1GB of ram is just stupid.
But that's a completely misguided notion of where apps and tablets are headed. Memory is not a function of apps, at least not linearly or continuously. I see memory hitting a ceiling in terms of heat, space and cost. I see apps not being developed with serious work in mind. You cited photoshop as an example and I think that's just bizarre. This is a tablet. There's this misguided notion that all mobile devices have to converge to the desktop in terms of performance and usage and I think it's bizarre and insane. When you cram a desktop into a tablet what is that? Why even bother when you can go for a laptop that would probably cost half in terms of price and multiples in terms of comfort? Why would any company bother doing this? Why would Google even push Android in this direction?
It's a tablet. You have fun, maybe do typing and word processing at the maximum and in special use cases. But it's meant to be lightweight, enjoyable and made for ENTERTAINMENT. User input at a minimum, simple touch movements, big on audio and visuals. Look at the screen to read a book, watch a video, listen to music. Pull your finger around or tilt the tablet. Not sit there and furiously work on a Photoshop project. That's what a mouse, a full sized keyboard and a desktop computer were made for.
When you talk about a future where RAM increases to meet the needs of apps, Photoshop is on the Android market and CPU power similarly increases to meet the needs. It's no longer a tablet, it's a laptop without a keyboard. It will be priced ugly and its design and specs will match that ugliness.
Maybe in the future we will have hardware so slim and so energy efficient and an input system so perfect all computers will be touch tablets, wafer thin, bendable and capable of running as fast as the U.S. govs fastest superclusters and everyone can download a genome sequencer app that lets you sequence the human genome on every tablet redundantly for ****s and giggles and within two seconds but I highly doubt this future will arrive within our lifetimes. Any attempt to head there by cramming a desktop ideal into a tablet form factor is misguided IMO.
Tubular said:
But that's a completely misguided notion of where apps and tablets are headed. Memory is not a function of apps, at least not linearly or continuously. I see memory hitting a ceiling in terms of heat, space and cost. I see apps not being developed with serious work in mind. You cited photoshop as an example and I think that's just bizarre. This is a tablet. There's this misguided notion that all mobile devices have to converge to the desktop in terms of performance and usage and I think it's bizarre and insane. When you cram a desktop into a tablet what is that? Why even bother when you can go for a laptop that would probably cost half in terms of price and multiples in terms of comfort? Why would any company bother doing this? Why would Google even push Android in this direction?
It's a tablet. You have fun, maybe do typing and word processing at the maximum and in special use cases. But it's meant to be lightweight, enjoyable and made for ENTERTAINMENT. User input at a minimum, simple touch movements, big on audio and visuals. Look at the screen to read a book, watch a video, listen to music. Pull your finger around or tilt the tablet. Not sit there and furiously work on a Photoshop project. That's what a mouse, a full sized keyboard and a desktop computer were made for.
When you talk about a future where RAM increases to meet the needs of apps, Photoshop is on the Android market and CPU power similarly increases to meet the needs. It's no longer a tablet, it's a laptop without a keyboard. It will be priced ugly and its design and specs will match that ugliness.
Maybe in the future we will have hardware so slim and so energy efficient and an input system so perfect all computers will be touch tablets, wafer thin, bendable and capable of running as fast as the U.S. govs fastest superclusters and everyone can download a genome sequencer app that lets you sequence the human genome on every tablet redundantly for ****s and giggles and within two seconds but I highly doubt this future will arrive within our lifetimes. Any attempt to head there by cramming a desktop ideal into a tablet form factor is misguided IMO.
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You should google graphene. That's where we're heading. Graphene is so strong and so conductive that electronic parts as thin as 1 atom thick could be made. We're talking ultra thin electronic devices in the near future.
I don't think 1GB RAM is enough for Honeycomb, I regularly find my free RAM dropping to double figures <70MB and the system requiring a reboot.
Even using a task killer over time will not free up the same amount of RAM as was available after the previous reboot.
Honeycomb memory management needs a massive amount of work before it can be left to control RAM on its own, I think 1.5-2GB RAM would be a much better solution
In my opinion, more RAM on Android devices is just to keep more applications in memory for multitasking.
I couldn't imagine that a 256mb game, or even a 2mb app, would benefit from a device having more ram than the size of the app.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
goodintentions said:
You should google graphene. That's where we're heading. Graphene is so strong and so conductive that electronic parts as thin as 1 atom thick could be made. We're talking ultra thin electronic devices in the near future.
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http://arstechnica.com/science/news...hell-holds-the-secret-to-bendable-screens.ars
Here's another interesting one.
infazzdar said:
In my opinion, more RAM on Android devices is just to keep more applications in memory for multitasking.
I couldn't imagine that a 256mb game, or even a 2mb app, would benefit from a device having more ram than the size of the app.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
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The size of an app has nothing to do with how much RAM it consumes.
A prime example is firefox on a PC... around 17MB app, can use GB's of RAM due to memory leaks, and even without leaks, would still use a couple hundred MB
Viruses are another example, designed to use up as much system resources as possible while only being KB's in size
Related
With most new phones having 1 gig standard now, I see the new LG phone announced will be coming with a crazy 2 gig of ram. I'm no technical pro but isn't that a little overkill for a phone? I've never had an issue with 1 gig on my last few phones, and I know ram isn't all that expensive but it seems to be a marketing ploy to me.
anyway, other opinions or thoughts?
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
Creating a need is what todays mobile market is about. My point is who actually needs the full power of todays phones, a very small percentage i imagine
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Would be better if they thought about creating faster 1GB RAM chips instead.
But imagine that you have quad-core 1.5GHz CPU and 8 GB of RAM. That would allow you to use full scale linux OS on your smartphone (I know it is possible now, but it's far from useable)
I'd be more impressed with ddr3 ram.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
I would be happy if with increasing all dis horsepower manufactures can focus on increasing the battery backup also.
If MotoRazr Maxx can have 3300 mA battery...NOTE2 should have atleast 5000 mA
The 2GB would definitely be needed if they also increased the max number of tabs in the browser. That alone can eat my 1GB.
Sent from my superior GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
tomksoft said:
Would be better if they thought about creating faster 1GB RAM chips instead.
But imagine that you have quad-core 1.5GHz CPU and 8 GB of RAM. That would allow you to use full scale linux OS on your smartphone (I know it is possible now, but it's far from useable)
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I beg to differ I would say its very useable already but yes faster chips would be a much better root, the more bottle necks you can remove the better
tomksoft said:
Would be better if they thought about creating faster 1GB RAM chips instead.
But imagine that you have quad-core 1.5GHz CPU and 8 GB of RAM. That would allow you to use full scale linux OS on your smartphone (I know it is possible now, but it's far from useable)
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Full scale Linux runs perfectly well on much weaker systems. If you're talking about the Linux-on-Android project, the UI is not very responsive because it's not running natively, but through a painfully slow remote desktop thing. The actual processing that's happening behind the scenes is pretty quick and so it's still very useful.
Depends what you are doing.as to how much memory you need, etc.
Screen resolutions are getting bigger, cameras are higher res, etc. it all adds up to more data to hold on to and move around. Having an extra 0.5GB or 1GB can make a huge difference in some cases (e.g. Photo or video editing on-device.)
Also, Android puts apps to sleep rather than closing them down and releasing the resources by default (only properly disposing of them when more resources are required for a foreground app. Having extra RAM means more can be resident in memory without needing to dispose of anything so that could lead to a slicker UI experience and a phone that seems really fast and responsive.
The thing that disappointed me the most about the s3 was the ram, really ruined it for me. Phones today must have 1.5gb atleast.
pboesboes said:
Full scale Linux runs perfectly well on much weaker systems. If you're talking about the Linux-on-Android project, the UI is not very responsive because it's not running natively, but through a painfully slow remote desktop thing. The actual processing that's happening behind the scenes is pretty quick and so it's still very useful.
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Indeed once we can get a working native X11 desktop running (There are a few projects working hardo n this so its likely it will happen!) it will feel alot quicker, but if you try using command line applications they feel just as snappy as running on a few years old desktop
zacthespack said:
Indeed once we can get a working native X11 desktop running (There are a few projects working hardo n this so its likely it will happen!) it will feel alot quicker, but if you try using command line applications they feel just as snappy as running on a few years old desktop
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Yeah, it's pretty impressive what our phones are capable of.
Having a native desktop would be awesome. The possibilities are... endless!
pboesboes said:
Yeah, it's pretty impressive what our phones are capable of.
Having a native desktop would be awesome. The possibilities are... endless!
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indeed I fell in love with android when I got my HTC Magic (Android 1.5 baby ) its grown up alot but I have always been amazed at how open it is and just hwo much you can do with it
yon222 said:
The thing that disappointed me the most about the s3 was the ram, really ruined it for me. Phones today must have 1.5gb atleast.
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What the herr you going to do w/ 1.5GB of Ram? Run Photoshop CS5 and have 50 apps open lol? You don't need it. It would be nice, but it's not necessary.
Zamboney said:
The 2GB would definitely be needed if they also increased the max number of tabs in the browser. That alone can eat my 1GB.
Sent from my superior GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
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What I was about to say too.
I'll sometimes have 5 to 6 tabs open whilst using Instagram and Facebook and drawsomething.
This is the 4th time I've opened my task manager today and realized I was using over a gig. It easy to use over a gig when its there
Sent from my SPH-L710 using xda app-developers app
a phone OS using more ram than Vista??? not a good sign. God where are the AOSP roms already :crying:
Kernel knows it has more memory available so apps are more likely to stay in their suspended state, rather than removed from memory.
But I enjoy the 2GB of ram for sure.
dardani89 said:
a phone OS using more ram than Vista??? not a good sign. God where are the AOSP roms already :crying:
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Using RAM is not bad; needing RAM is bad. Android 4.0 can easily run with less than 400 MB, but some things can be a little faster when they don't have to constantly reload.
stuff said:
Kernel knows it has more memory available so apps are more likely to stay in their suspended state, rather than removed from memory.
But I enjoy the 2GB of ram for sure.
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This. Everything switches back instantly!!
One of the most frustrating parts of the HTC OneX for me was when i was reading a long page of comments on sites like the verge or typing up a forum post. If i left the browser to reply to a text or facebook notification, and then returned to the browser it would always reload a page, and at the top.
Even the (heavy) Sense 4 launcher would have to load up every now and then.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747
Voltage Spike said:
Using RAM is not bad; needing RAM is bad. Android 4.0 can easily run with less than 400 MB, but some things can be a little faster when they don't have to constantly reload.
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i wasn't making fun of android, i was making fun of touchwiz. too much bloat.
If the RAM will mean Nova Launcher wont reload itself as much as it currently does on my Incredible, then that's reason enough for me.
Having had the 1X for a month the 2 gb ram was one of the reasons I switched.
The 2GB of ram (and LTE) has been excessively downplayed by the International crowd because..well..they don't have it. The fact is the 2GB of ram should allow a stock phone to reload things much less. If you want to look forward 6 months to a year, I think the difference will be potentially much larger when we start to see creative devs tweaking their kernels to really use this extra ram. This is a ground breaking hardware move. We haven't even really begun to see what is possible. Judging any of these based on stock software at release is pointless. Think about how much better other phones have gotten after a few OTA updates....this device, especially with the extra ram is really well equipped for a long time.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
jamesnmandy said:
The 2GB of ram (and LTE) has been excessively downplayed by the International crowd because..well..they don't have it. The fact is the 2GB of ram should allow a stock phone to reload things much less. If you want to look forward 6 months to a year, I think the difference will be potentially much larger when we start to see creative devs tweaking their kernels to really use this extra ram. This is a ground breaking hardware move. We haven't even really begun to see what is possible. Judging any of these based on stock software at release is pointless. Think about how much better other phones have gotten after a few OTA updates....this device, especially with the extra ram is really well equipped for a long time.
Sent from my DROIDX using xda premium
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This ^^^
Truth
XDA Mobile
By the time any phone will actually use 2gb of ram, im sure most of us will have moved on to a new phone already. Of course having the extra ram is good for bragging rights, but does it actually mean anything? I'll say no, but im sure some will argue that.
shook187 said:
By the time any phone will actually use 2gb of ram, im sure most of us will have moved on to a new phone already. Of course having the extra ram is good for bragging rights, but does it actually mean anything? I'll say no, but im sure some will argue that.
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they already make use of 1.1-1.2GB of ram out of the box running all stock software.......imagine if custom roms/kernels were available that make use of it....it's not far off....."by the time any phone will use" is closer than you think
jamesnmandy said:
they already make use of 1.1-1.2GB of ram out of the box running all stock software.......imagine if custom roms/kernels were available that make use of it....it's not far off....."by the time any phone will use" is closer than you think
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This is good in theory but everyone on here is talking like we have been missing two gigs all this time in our phones. If you are coming to the S3 from a single core phone of course this is night and day. My SGSII has NEVER.....I repeat NEVER run out of memory lost track multitasking or had to close out multiple apps to make room for more.....how many apps does one need sitting in a suspended state?.....I have 5 or 6 apps open at any given time with PLENTY of room for more...sure the extra ram is nice to have, but its completely unnecessary ....dual cores with a gig of ram have NO problem doing heavy multitasking .....ask anyone running as SGSII or Gnex.
The extra ram in the S3 is there to offset the loss of quadcore....its a nice helping hand to the Krait chip but not necessary for everyday multitasking that the average person does.....I don't know what phones alot of you guys are coming from but from the sounds of these posts they were serious under achievers.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
This is good in theory but everyone on here is talking like we have been missing two gigs all this time in our phones. If you are coming to the S3 from a single core phone of course this is night and day. My SGSII has NEVER.....I repeat NEVER run out of memory lost track multitasking or had to close out multiple apps to make room for more.....how many apps does one need sitting in a suspended state?.....I have 5 or 6 apps open at any given time with PLENTY of room for more...sure the extra ram is nice to have, but its completely unnecessary ....dual cores with a gig of ram have NO problem doing heavy multitasking .....ask anyone running as SGSII or Gnex.
The extra ram in the S3 is there to offset the loss of quadcore....its a nice helping hand to the Krait chip but not necessary for everyday multitasking that the average person does.....I don't know what phones alot of you guys are coming from but from the sounds of these posts they were serious under achievers.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
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i think the reason you never saw your device running out of room is likely because the system knew how much memory it had to work with and was always adjusting things to accommodate as much memory....if the system had more memory available to it it can behave differently....it's not about "how many apps one needs in a suspended state", it's about "the more apps you can keep in a suspended state the quicker the apps will run for the user"
i know this isn't x86 and it's not windows, but the analogy still stands, consider Windows 7
if you build a pc using it with 2Gb of ram it will run just fine, it will use somewhere around 1Gb of ram sitting idle, using it for the prefetch cache to be ready to launch your most used apps while maintaining a safe amount of memory for sudden useage/overhead
if you upgrade that same pc to 4Gb of ram, it will use close to 2Gb at idle.....it's not quite linear as that but you can see a direct correlation between available memory and memory utilization
the Linux kernel behind android appears to work very similarly, it will keep the most called upon code in local memory so that it launches faster when next called upon. the more memory available to the kernel, the less time it can spend killing apps in order to maintain that same level of free memory for the unexpected execution of a new app
the more memory it has, if it is written/compiled to take advantage of it, the more potential for performance is there.
I would say the 2Gb of memory is more easily utilized than the additional redundant cores in the Exynos kit. I have been looking for some real data on Android and SMP but I know recently Intel made a rare public statement about how it is not ready for even dual core utilization. I don't think Intel would make such a specific claim without data. I don't think the Exynos users are really getting much good at all from the four cores other than synthetic benchmark scores and I think they could see more benefits down the road from more memory than redundant A9 older technology additional cores.
disclaimer: I am still learning about all this so if some smart guy comes along and sees something above that is not quite right....it's not because I am making this up....it's what I understand to be true based on reading.
jamesnmandy said:
i think the reason you never saw your device running out of room is likely because the system knew how much memory it had to work with and was always adjusting things to accommodate as much memory....if the system had more memory available to it it can behave differently....it's not about "how many apps one needs in a suspended state", it's about "the more apps you can keep in a suspended state the quicker the apps will run for the user"
i know this isn't x86 and it's not windows, but the analogy still stands, consider Windows 7
if you build a pc using it with 2Gb of ram it will run just fine, it will use somewhere around 1Gb of ram sitting idle, using it for the prefetch cache to be ready to launch your most used apps while maintaining a safe amount of memory for sudden useage/overhead
if you upgrade that same pc to 4Gb of ram, it will use close to 2Gb at idle.....it's not quite linear as that but you can see a direct correlation between available memory and memory utilization
the Linux kernel behind android appears to work very similarly, it will keep the most called upon code in local memory so that it launches faster when next called upon. the more memory available to the kernel, the less time it can spend killing apps in order to maintain that same level of free memory for the unexpected execution of a new app
the more memory it has, if it is written/compiled to take advantage of it, the more potential for performance is there.
I would say the 2Gb of memory is more easily utilized than the additional redundant cores in the Exynos kit. I have been looking for some real data on Android and SMP but I know recently Intel made a rare public statement about how it is not ready for even dual core utilization. I don't think Intel would make such a specific claim without data. I don't think the Exynos users are really getting much good at all from the four cores other than synthetic benchmark scores and I think they could see more benefits down the road from more memory than redundant A9 older technology additional cores.
disclaimer: I am still learning about all this so if some smart guy comes along and sees something above that is not quite right....it's not because I am making this up....it's what I understand to be true based on reading.
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You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
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right on, yeah i agree it's overkill right now. I just think within the next two years, we will easily see multiple areas where having more is better than having less. I am thinking way outside the box but I am seeing visions of custom kernels that are doing some extreme caching, even running a VM type environment.....actually I am thinking of running Android and perhaps there will be an opportunity to run Windows RT or some desktop version of Linux simultaneously......something a device with even four cores and 1GB of ram would have a hard time doing.....and that's not to say it would run well on the S4 US version either, but it is certainly more suited for it
jamesnmandy said:
right on, yeah i agree it's overkill right now. I just think within the next two years, we will easily see multiple areas where having more is better than having less. I am thinking way outside the box but I am seeing visions of custom kernels that are doing some extreme caching, even running a VM type environment.....actually I am thinking of running Android and perhaps there will be an opportunity to run Windows RT or some desktop version of Linux simultaneously......something a device with even four cores and 1GB of ram would have a hard time doing.....and that's not to say it would run well on the S4 US version either, but it is certainly more suited for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the way you think
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
tylerdurdin said:
You are pretty spot on for the most part....but the difference here lies in the amount of ram needed to cache applications and perform extended tasks.....the reason my GSII never runs out of memory is because it has plenty for any array of tasks. While caching 8 applications I use all day...and still have anywhere from 325 to 400 megs available for any other array tasks .....I just can't see where I would need more.
As for your earlier mention of custom roms.....this becomes even less necessary ....right now a stock GS3 is using over a gig.....that's because its loaded chock full O'carrier BS on top of all samsungs layers of bloat and BS "features"....you strip all that crap out and you have a 275mb OS and more ram than you will know what to do with.
Bloat is the only thing requiring this extra ram because its running at system level which is also why Sense stuffed a dagger in the H1X.
Performance for launching is helped greatly by the processor for anything not in ram and the threshold for my phone is 64mb....which means my phone will not start killing of apps until that's met.....I could not seem to hit it just messing around.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are partially right. My sensation xl and my friends galaxy note works multitask pretty well with just 768mb and 1GB ram. But that was on Gingerbread. Once we upgraded to ICS multitasking suffers tremendously. He even blamed me for persuading him to do the update. For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
nativestranger said:
You are partially right. My sensation xl and my friends galaxy note works multitask pretty well with just 768mb and 1GB ram. But that was on Gingerbread. Once we upgraded to ICS multitasking suffers tremendously. He even blamed me for persuading him to do the update. For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
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Click to collapse
I have to blame both device and OS....I am running ICS on my GS2 and have not even seen the slightest difference.....although my battery is just slightly worse.
Sent from........Somewhere In Time
nativestranger said:
For GB 1GB is enough. For ICS 1GB is not enough if you want the best multitasking experience.
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You must be running some early leeks cause some of my phones like the GS2 and the evo 3d are running ICS flawlessly.
New nexus 10 user here. came from an htc flyer. Anyways, android assistant shows total ram on my device as 1.2gb or so. Specs say thing has 2gb. Does any ones else's device report that or is that the way android assitant reports it? I am just wondering if i have a new device with ram issues. Also, with not much running, this things shows available ram like my Vivid (about 300gb or so ) and it is supposed to have 2x the amount of Ram.
Thanks for any insight.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
Before 4.2.2, only close to 400MB was reserved for the GPU, but apparently you could go past that limit in some cases, and it would cause userspace RAM fragmentation.
espionage724 said:
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
Before 4.2.2, only close to 400MB was reserved for the GPU, but apparently you could go past that limit in some cases, and it would cause userspace RAM fragmentation.
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Click to collapse
You could copy that everytime a new user asks about this ram "issue", which isn't, since I saw you answered like 7 times? the same thing.
espionage724 said:
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
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Click to collapse
Not cheap marketing, laptop manufacturers have been doing this for ages with integrated video cards. It's a little deceptive but it's the norm for this. I the Galaxy Nexus also did it. I am not certain but I don't think any mobile device has dedicated video ram, I believe it just is not reported as missing.
The Galaxy Nexus shows as having 893mb of ram.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
lKBZl said:
You could copy that everytime a new user asks about this ram "issue", which isn't, since I saw you answered like 7 times? the same thing.
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Is there a problem with how I'm describing it? The Nexus 10 does have 2GB of RAM, with close to 800MB (I forget the exact amount but I know I reported it before) being reserved strictly for the GPU, and not userspace apps. I know it's not an "issue", but how I feel about it doesn't really mean too much at all though.
altimax98 said:
Not cheap marketing, laptop manufacturers have been doing this for ages with integrated video cards. It's a little deceptive but it's the norm for this. I the Galaxy Nexus also did it. I am not certain but I don't think any mobile device has dedicated video ram, I believe it just is not reported as missing.
The Galaxy Nexus shows as having 893mb of ram.
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Click to collapse
I agree it's kind of normal, but it's how much is missing that still bothers me. The Galaxy Nexus is said to have 1GB of RAM, and if what you say is true, you're missing only a tiny bit over 100MB (which, is nothing imo). The Nexus 10 on the other hand is missing nearly half the advertised amount (not literally "missing" but not usable under normal conditions).
I'm pretty sure most laptop GPU's don't take "that" much RAM either when it's not dedicated (most I've seen was 512MB shared video memory, on laptops containing 4GB of RAM; very small amount really)
espionage724 said:
What your seeing is correct. The Nexus 10 has 2GB of RAM on the motherboard, but 800MB of it is reserved specifically for the GPU. I still think it's kind of cheap marketing, but meh.
Before 4.2.2, only close to 400MB was reserved for the GPU, but apparently you could go past that limit in some cases, and it would cause userspace RAM fragmentation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the more i know and read about the n10 the more i feel being ripped off
Ripped of? For around $400-$500, you're getting a device with extremely high resolution (highest in its class EVER), a 1.7 GHz CPU with up to 2.1 possible, a software and hardware support guarantee from Google, an extremely competitive GPU, and future-proofing with the latest Android versions for years to come.
That sounds like a pretty damn good deal to me. I know I've loved my N10.
If you're having issues with your device its likely a manufacturing fault, just return it to Google and get a new one.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app
hpl912 said:
the more i know and read about the n10 the more i feel being ripped off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rip off?
Have you checked how much usable space you have after formatting a 1GB drive? The N10 delivers the specified HW but there is always overhead required to use it, no matter which OS you have. That is just a fact of computing. I would argue that you get to use ALL of the N10 hardware when you accurately account for the a running OS and apps.
Compared to Win8 RT, Android (Linux) is a skinny fashion model. Go look at the Win8 RT tablet specs then see how much usable HW is left after it boots up. Here is just one example.
espionage724 said:
Is there a problem with how I'm describing it? The Nexus 10 does have 2GB of RAM, with close to 800MB (I forget the exact amount but I know I reported it before) being reserved strictly for the GPU, and not userspace apps. I know it's not an "issue", but how I feel about it doesn't really mean too much at all though.
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Click to collapse
Lol why do you take it like this? I just said you answered a lot of times the same, and you could copy it since i'm sure you'll have to answer that again' Where's the problem?
espionage724 said:
Is there a problem with how I'm describing it? The Nexus 10 does have 2GB of RAM, with close to 800MB (I forget the exact amount but I know I reported it before) being reserved strictly for the GPU, and not userspace apps. I know it's not an "issue", but how I feel about it doesn't really mean too much at all though.
I agree it's kind of normal, but it's how much is missing that still bothers me. The Galaxy Nexus is said to have 1GB of RAM, and if what you say is true, you're missing only a tiny bit over 100MB (which, is nothing imo). The Nexus 10 on the other hand is missing nearly half the advertised amount (not literally "missing" but not usable under normal conditions).
I'm pretty sure most laptop GPU's don't take "that" much RAM either when it's not dedicated (most I've seen was 512MB shared video memory, on laptops containing 4GB of RAM; very small amount really)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I stand corrected about the Galaxy Nexus. It reports at 693 available ram.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
I currently am using a LeEco S3 with 3GB of RAM. I have decided to move on to a Moto G5 Plus since Best Buy has the pre-order deal with the $5 case. It ultimately comes down to how much I am spending. The 2GB version is $229. The 4GB version is $299. I don't want to cheap out yet at the same time I don't want to throw an extra hundred down and not notice a real difference multitasking wise. Would you say that the 2GB is good enough or am I better off spending the extra for the 4GB version? It sucks every review I've seen and read is specifically on the 4GB version.
fatesealer said:
I currently am using a LeEco S3 with 3GB of RAM. I have decided to move on to a Moto G5 Plus since Best Buy has the pre-order deal with the $5 case. It ultimately comes down to how much I am spending. The 2GB version is $229. The 4GB version is $299. I don't want to cheap out yet at the same time I don't want to throw an extra hundred down and not notice a real difference multitasking wise. Would you say that the 2GB is good enough or am I better off spending the extra for the 4GB version? It sucks every review I've seen and read is specifically on the 4GB version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2 GB is okay but your system would be using like 1.9 GB on an average.With upgrades to O more ram is likely going to be required.So it's better to go with 4 GB variant than have a lagging phone after updates.
I am a g4+ user with 3 GB RAM.
Lol I just did the same thing! Returned the S3 for the g5 plus 64gb. The S3 has weird lag even though it's processor is "better" so glad I switch cause this thing flies! Depends on your app usage but the 4gb model is necessary for heavy users and gamers! Casual use then go for the 2gb.
That's funny. I was wondering this but I already ordered the 2 GB one lol. That's me second-guessing myself. Currently using a Nexus 6 with a busted antenna(?).
Hi,
This is my oppion: 2GB of RAM is a joke from Motorola/Lenovo. Forget completly any Android 7 phone with less than 3GB of RAM!
I suffer a 2GB Moto G4 (not plus) for a year with only 2GB or RAM... just a constant lag.
2gb is too slow
I have brazilian version of Moto G5 Plus and for me until now is excellent 2 Gb of RAM
I have the 2GB version and for me it is more than enough. At most I have 3 or 4 apps going and I don't game on my phone. The most I'll tax it is using navigation with a podcast going or making a phone call. But if you're a heavier user then yeah the 4GB would be a better bet.
2 gb is plenty. It works great!
If you look around there are A LOT if articles out there explaining why anything over 2gb is pretty much useless.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Developers surely are not targeting over 2GB yet as the vast majority of phones in use are 2GB or less. Maybe if you wanna switch between apps much, have a lot of web tabs open, etc, you will see benefit from more than 2GB? I bought 4GB RAM version because I want to be able to keep the phone for about 3 years, and I already had as my previous phone the OnePlus One, which needed to be replaced as I had used it for 3 years and the edges were starting to crack, battery is old, etc. I didn't want to DOWNGRADE to LESS RAM (not so logical reason, just I didn't feel like my new phone after three years should have less RAM than my old one).
I think I'd be happy with 2GB RAM phone. I kind of wish it had NFC because I think I'd like to be able to use Android Pay (though I never did actually use it when I had OnePlus One for 3 years?!!). I remember forgetting my wallet one time I went out and thinking how nice if I could pay with my phone, which I wouldn't forget.
To go big at the onset will cost you $70. Unless you wait until the phone's price gets under $70 it'll be an expensive upgrade later.
My phone, with four gigs, frequently runs with 1.8 to 2 gigs in use.
Plus the extra onboard storage that comes with the 4gig model is kinda sweet.
I'm not a big spender but the jump to the 300 model was easy for me to justify without me feeling like I was lying to myself as to why I wanted more.
fatesealer said:
I currently am using a LeEco S3 with 3GB of RAM. I have decided to move on to a Moto G5 Plus since Best Buy has the pre-order deal with the $5 case. It ultimately comes down to how much I am spending. The 2GB version is $229. The 4GB version is $299. I don't want to cheap out yet at the same time I don't want to throw an extra hundred down and not notice a real difference multitasking wise. Would you say that the 2GB is good enough or am I better off spending the extra for the 4GB version? It sucks every review I've seen and read is specifically on the 4GB version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go with the 4gb varient, you won't regret. [emoji4]
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
Remember those e-machines that have the sticker saying "This machine is never obselete?" Yeah, you know how that turned out. You don't want your phone to be an e-machine saying that. I exchanged my 2GB model for a 4GB model simply because I am a heavy user, I had a lot of reloading apps in multitasking; no regrets there on upgrading. It depends, though: unless you're a heavy user like me (games, mulit window, chrome, youtube, ect memory hungry apps) you won't see a major difference. Still, more is better, and choosing the 4GB of memory over the 2GB would be future proofing for updates, such as the upcoming Android O and Android 7.1 (that is if Lenovo doesn't drop us like it dropped the 2015 Moto G). In general, with more RAM, more apps can stay open, and games, if you play them, will run just a bit better if they are memory heavy. You won't notice anything if an app opens right where you left it, but you will notice if it reloads on you. Nevertheless, even standard issued apps like Chrome and YouTube use a lot of memory. I'd say shoot for the 4GB RAM and 64GB Storage. It's better for the long run, and really you'll want it soon enough.
tl;dr it depends, but futureproofing is a good idea.
Defiantly go for the 4gb variant.
Depends on your usage. I tend to use 2-3 apps at a time and close them regularly. Besides, I don't use the phone for gaming.
If you plan on keeping tons of apps in memory and expect them to be there after 2 hours, yeah, 4GB is the way to go.
bornlivedie said:
Depends on your usage. I tend to use 2-3 apps at a time and close them regularly. Besides, I don't use the phone for gaming.
If you plan on keeping tons of apps in memory and expect them to be there after 2 hours, yeah, 4GB is the way to go.
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Click to collapse
2GB of RAM is just dandy for any smartphone application. Even games.
There are a few reasons you find more memory on phones; some good, some not-so-much.
RAM is Cheap. Really cheap these days. In the days of 32-bit CPUs, there was no practical value to offering more than 3GB RAM, like my Samsung Note Pro 12.2 tablet here. But with 64-bit processors, 4GB is a few bucks more than 2GB. Naturally, manufacturers don’t want you to know this. After all, even if it’s $2.00 a phone, if you’re Apple, that’s $200 million extra profit in a year.
Marketing Wars. Consumers are a simple people.. they don’t really know how stuff works. So basic numbers sell. A 4GB phone just sounds like twice as much as a 2GB phone. A 20Mpixel camera sounds so much better than a 12Mpixel camera — even though the top phone cameras right now are 12Mpixel cameras (the iPhone 7 is also a 12Mpixel camera, but not on the top, its sensor is too small).
Multitasking. The rule of thumb for Windows, at least, used to be 2GB per CPU core. Which means my PC here ought to have at least 12GB. I have 64GB… no problem. But if you extend this to Smartphones, pretty much no one has 2GB per core (and yeah, there are 8 core Smartphone chips, but most of those are big.LITTLE designs, they only normally use four cores at once). Neither Android nor iOS are as memory-hungry as Windows, and we’re not running a full Photoshop or Altium (my EE CAD software) or AutoPano Giga (the reason I have 64GB on my desktop). A typical Android application can ask for up to 48MB of RAM, no more. But there’s a special way to ask for hundreds of MB of RAM (considered impolite), and native apps can make Linux calls and get all they want. And you can actually have them all runinng at the same time. So if you’re a power user, you may want more than 2GB. But it’s not one app, it’s having a faster system with everything running.
High Density Screens. When I had a smartphone with 256MB RAM, I also had a 640x480 screen. My LG V10 today has 4GB RAM, but it’s also got a 2560x1600 screen. So does a 13x increase in screen resolution need a 16x increase in memory? Not exactly. On Android, your apps have to deal with all kinds of different phones, and most apps don’t need to directly interface with allocating screen bitmaps or anything, any more than a web browser does. But iOS is based on pixels and bitmaps, and also, there were very few models. So every software compamy knew exactly what resource they had. Then the iPhone 6 Plus came out, with the same 1GB as all sorts of other Apple phones. Only, the screen was 1920x1080 resolution. And all screen drawing was actually done in 1242 2208x1242 and then downscaled to 1920x1080. Bottom line: the overhead too enough extra memory over any other 1GB iPhone that some things just broke. Which is why they put 2GB into the iPhone 7.
So if you’re an iPhone user, your only choice is 2GB today in a new model. That’s exactly the right amount, since the memory size will drive software development. And you don’t have the option for more, anyway. For Android, 2GB is a good amount for 2017. I’m not really convinced I need more than that. Then again, I haven’t used up half of the 64GB internal flash on my V10, and the 256GB microSD card is mostly full of photos and music. Not critical, but nice to have.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
mindmajick said:
2GB of RAM is just dandy for any smartphone application. Even games.
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Click to collapse
This is true, any app from the Play Store will run just fine even with 1GB of ram.
But what I was talking about was the fact that most people just leave a ton of apps open and expect them to be that way for long periods of time without redrawing the entire app again.
If you leave open2 games, chrome, whatsapp, messenger spotify, play store, gmail, outlook, evernote, etc... and expect every single of them to be open, you're gonna have a hard time with just 2GB of ram.
That's why 4GB of ram is necessary.
I do not open more than 4-5 apps at a time and tend to close them right after I'm done with them, so 2GB is plenty, even for future versions of Android (if we trust that they will maintain the same line of work for future versions).
On TobyDeals, there is a 30% difference in price between the 2Gb/32Gb version and the 3Gb/128Gb. I presume 2GB is insufficient for today's software, which may explain why the offer is so cheap.
Has anyone successfully used the T510 with 2GB RAM ? Does it move at any spead ? Or, does it just spend time swapping from memory when switching between apps ?
andrewsc said:
On TobyDeals, there is a 30% difference in price between the 2Gb/32Gb version and the 3Gb/128Gb. I presume 2GB is insufficient for today's software, which may explain why the offer is so cheap.
Has anyone successfully used the T510 with 2GB RAM ? Does it move at any spead ? Or, does it just spend time swapping from memory when switching between apps ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just look at the number of people in this forum still using the T580. It is much slower than the T510 and yet it must satisfy the needs of a lot of people. I was quite happy with mine for years. I now have a T510 with 2gb and a T720 with 4gb. I pretty much use them interchangebly and don't notice much difference. But, then again, I don't use a tablet as a "computer". I have 3 desktop computers at home and only use tablets when I'm "on the go". IMHO, this push for more and more RAM is highly overrated.
lewmur said:
still using the T580. It is much slower than the T510 and yet it must satisfy the needs of a lot of people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get your point. My current tablet is even older than the T580, being an S2 SM-T810 first launched 2015. I'm still using it, and it has 3Gb RAM. It's my main connection to the online world, but it's slowly giving up the ghost. Hence my interest in current alternatives.
Generally, I agree that the pursuit of "bigger, better, faster" is approaching a plateau in Android. But 2Gb RAM is not there yet. My concern about RAM comes from professional life as a Java programmer. A decade ago, I was able to run my webserver application in 1.5Gb Ram. Now it runs out of memory at 1.5, even before coming up. It hardly moves at 2Gb. It comes into its own at 3Gb, but works better with 4Gb. In Java, the objects have gotten bigger in 64-bit devices. Overheads (the preambles of each object) have also become bigger. Same thing in JavaScript which runs inside the browsers. As I'm writing this on my desktop, Google Chrome takes up 1Gb, without any other windows open. I know it can easily go up to 2.5Gb - just a browser.
As is the case so often, software uses up all resources available. For an analogy, I'm reminded of Microsoft Word which was running 25 years ago at exactly the same speed as it does now - admittedly, with fewer features, but those extras are seldom used now.
BTW, the specs on Gsm Arena show that the version of T580 which have an S-Pen do get 3Gb ram. This doesn't say much, because people who bought the T580 as a low-cost option most likely didn't buy it with an S-Pen
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_tab_a_10_1_(2016)-8090.php
You pretty much made my point. As I said, I don't use my tablets as computers and most people don't either. If you are using yours as a professional developer, you should be able to afford a higher end tablet than a T510. The T510 is the "budget" tablet in Samsung's line. You can get a T720 with 6gb.
I'm not developing on Android. The webserver I mentioned runs on Linux, and occasionally on Windows 10 when I'm debugging. That's how I know about the increased memory requirements, and I have good reason to extrapolate this to Android.
Before the lockdown, I spent most of my free time at home with the tablet, trying to relax away from work. Facebook, browsing. So the tasks are light, but at 69 I'm sensitive about ergonomics. Eyes, fingers, palms. The triangular tablet-pillow allows me to hold the tablet more easily. So instead of the 380 grams of my Tab S2, I could go with the slighly heavier current tablets from Samsung.
Yup. I use T-510 with 2GB RAM and 32 GB storage and expanded it with micro SD. Even though it is not silky smooth, it is not frustrating. Apps might take a second or two to load but I mostly read books or watch movies. So, that lag does not make a difference for me.
andrewsc said:
On TobyDeals, there is a 30% difference in price between the 2Gb/32Gb version and the 3Gb/128Gb. I presume 2GB is insufficient for today's software, which may explain why the offer is so cheap.
Has anyone successfully used the T510 with 2GB RAM ? Does it move at any spead ? Or, does it just spend time swapping from memory when switching between apps ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just bought the 3gb/128gb model today from costco for $220, they had $80 off the original price. I can honestly say that so far it's been a smooth experience but I've only played with it for about 30 minutes. I got on xda to look for lineage os support, I already want to get it as vanilla as possible
droid4lif3 said:
I just bought the 3gb/128gb model today from costco for $220, they had $80 off the original price. I can honestly say that so far it's been a smooth experience but I've only played with it for about 30 minutes. I got on xda to look for lineage os support, I already want to get it as vanilla as possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mind saying which Costco you got this? I'm northern CA it's $299. I've been waiting for it to go on sale again but so far it hasn't.
jserio said:
Mind saying which Costco you got this? I'm northern CA it's $299. I've been waiting for it to go on sale again but so far it hasn't.
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Click to collapse
I'm in SoCal, found it at the Costco in Norwalk, CA but I also went online and the Costco website had the $80 off deal as well, its not live anymore though.