Database Users

Possible Solution to Battery life problems

Take this for what it is worth, it applies to my device.
I define "acceptable" battery life as I arrive home at night with > 25% battery remaining. I firmly believe that if you want to charge your smart phone once a week you need to wait for fusion batteries because current technology will just cause you to complain bitterly on-line.
That said, I had seen occasions when my battery would be hot and you could practically watch it drain. This while the phone was not in use and in good coverage area i.e. an aberration.
I read a reference a while back in a vaguely related support site talking about the phone getting stuck in USB polling mode. Honest I did! I am just completely unable to find the reference to include here.
Anyhow, as all programmers know polling is a fatally, catastrophically, horrible, thing to do; there are only a very few specific circumstances when that is an acceptable design.
So, after a fair bit of digging I found that my Glacier (rooted, stock ROM) can sometimes get itself into a USB polling mode. I theorize this is related to the mini-USB to micro-USB adapter, although it may also just be the act of plugging and unplugging it too quickly (loose connection, plug slips out of fingers etc.). But for whatever reason it appears caused by the device seeing something on the USB port but disappearing before the driver can decide what it is looking at.
Once it gets in this state the CPU clocks up to 1GHz, and goes to 100% duty cycle. And it does not move from that state. User interaction is a bit sluggish but not necessarily that noticeable.
The best solution is to toggle USB debugging off and back on. This seems to reset the driver and settle it down. I leave USB debugging on but do not believe that is causal. So if you don't use USB debugging I still believe this could apply to your device and by toggling on and back off you can probably achieve the same results. The key is to get the USB driver to reset its state.
As a pitch, the most expensive piece of software I have thus far purchased is SystemPanel. It was instrumental in figuring this out, although any task monitor, even "top" would probably help. Still SystemPanel is just so cool I have to pitch it here. (No I don't have a monetary interest, blah, blah, blah. It rocks, you'll like it. Trust me).
Anyhow, if your USB driver goes into polling mode it will fairly well wipe out a fully charged battery in 2-3 hours. And anyone is right to complain about that!
Hope this helps.
Terry

Terry,
Are you absolutely, 100% certain you are not experiencing either one of the following issues:
Issue #11126 - http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=11126
Issue #13130 - http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=13130, which points back here to a thread on XDA, regarding the USB Debugging workaround...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=826507
No one, has the real explanation of what causes either of these processes to run out of control. I guess that's why they're still bugs.
We all know that a phone running Froyo, that is experiencing either of these issues, will experience extremely rapid battery drain. Why it happens to some and not others, no one yet knows. Phones NOT experiencing this issue, specifically, Glaciers not experiencing this issue, regularly hit 15 hours of battery life without any form of ROM modification, hacks, SetCPU adjustments, etc. - such as me and the 5 Glaciers I currently have here and have tested numerous times...
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*3 of those are going back on Monday.
I am fortunate to never have experienced this, while my fiancee has experienced this across 3 separate MT4G's, even though I had used 2 of those phones for over a week each and never experienced either issue once. I thought I was on to something when I had her try a completely new Google account on her 3rd phone, only to see the issue arise again after about 4 days. I'll be updating the thread I started with that info.

shlongwoodian said:
Terry,
Are you absolutely, 100% certain you are not experiencing either one of the following issues:
Issue #11126 - http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=11126
Issue #13130 - http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=13130, which points back here to a thread on XDA, regarding the USB Debugging workaround...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=826507
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It sounds similar but link #3 is not the one I referenced in the original post; it was not an XDA thread.
The first 2 links seem closely related to each other and likely my observation as well. I do not believe this is hardware related, nor do I believe a separate Google account will help - sorry. Of course I could easily be wrong.
Anyhow, I do have a problem that I plan to call TMOB about. It seems I cannot EVER send an MMS unless I am connected to a wifi access point. Perhaps it uses wifi perhaps that is only incidental but the correlation is 100%.
I mention that because as I was once again failing to MMS a picture today I tried to Restart. Surprisingly when the phone restarted it was in the 100% CPU utilization again. I did not research the problem as I'm familiar with the solution now. I cycled USB debugging and all was well. This was good because I wasn't home. This was surprising because no USB devices were part of this story at all (first time I've observed that scenario).
Just for clarity, I routinely get 15+ hours of life out of my device and have no complaints at all. I didn't mean to sound like I was complaining about battery life. I will mention that if you crank the brightness up to 100%, or even 80%, it does have a pretty significant impact on battery life. Moral: there are only so may electrons in those ions. Be a little circumspect where you spend them.
Anyhow, this is one more potentially useful data point in the ongoing battery saga.

I think more so, what I'm trying to do is get down to actual brass-tacks. Have you checked the list of running processes when this happens? The next time you see your battery running so low, can you launch Watchdog and take a screen shot of both your /init process and the /suspend process?
There's no "ghost in the machine" here. This isn't random. These are documented bugs that are 100% related to what you're experiencing.
It's very easy to associate events with one another. Just because it rained on Monday, doesn't mean Mondays make it rain. I'm totally not trying to be combative, but I am trying to be very specific and I am doing my best to avoid speculation.
I have a feeling if you look at either of those two processes the next time you see 100% CPU usage, you might find you're not alone. That's awesome you're getting that kind of battery life. It sounds just like my fiancee, who's getting 15 hours a day...except when /suspend runs out of control and she doesn't catch it in time.

ethutch said:
Anyhow, I do have a problem that I plan to call TMOB about. It seems I cannot EVER send an MMS unless I am connected to a wifi access point. Perhaps it uses wifi perhaps that is only incidental but the correlation is 100%.
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Get rid of the Telkila apn if it's still on your phone. I had the same problem. There's a few threads about it around here.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

I don't get how people have battery drain.

Like I honestly don't understand it. They are obviously doing something wrong. I am running NAND with the SD card for applications (Stock 16GB) with gauner1986's HD-FI 0.3 with 2.15.50.14 and I have only 2-5ma battery drain on standby. But here's what I noticed:
Certain applications from Market increases battery drainage. If you install an app, begin to experience high battery drain, uninstall it.
It's a 3G phone for godsakes. Why disable the speed of it by going 2G?
Disable WiFi/Bluetooth/GPS when not needed.
Don't disable AutoSync or Background Sync. I've noticed no increase with both of them except when it pushes email, updates
Keep the brightness UP to 100 percent. I saw no difference upon lowering it.
Don't disable APN either. This isn't your dumbphone, it's meant to have internet. Internet won't drain your battery life if it isn't active.
SetCPU is pointless. I don't even touch it as the risk to damage your phone using it is great. There has been no solid evidence this helps your battery life other then to SLOW down your phone.
Don't use a TaskKiller - Common sense, it eats battery. Android is programmed to kill apps.
On standby, it can last for freaking days even under light/medium usage. Constant heavy usage will make you last at-least a day.
Seriously. If you get drain, you have the wrong radio or application. I even tried uninstalling stock applications like Calender and removing widgets and they had no effect on my system. If you have to disable MAIN smartphone features, you might as well go back to:
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I agree with most of what you say here but not this
Keep the brightness UP to 100 percent. I saw no difference upon lowering it.
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Personally i think your better off keeping the brightness as low as possible as i did experience battery drain when i had it up to 100%.

I have a taskkiller and I don't notice any difference at all. Having the brightness to 100 does drain your battery that's just common sense.

have no probs with batt drain, i dont use appkillers, brightness on about 45%, play music most of the day, internet on all day with updates, txt and call daily, still on 75% now, not a problem

FirefighterDown said:
[*]Certain applications from Market increases battery drainage. If you install an app, begin to experience high battery drain, uninstall it.
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True.
[*]It's a 3G phone for godsakes. Why disable the speed of it by going 2G?
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Because it really is a battery consumer. Actually, surfing on 3G is more power consuming than on WiFi, and Edge is fast enough for a fair amount of uses. Having a 2G/3G toggle widget is probably best, indeed no need to dumb down your phone too much.
[*]Disable WiFi/Bluetooth/GPS when not needed.
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WiFi & BT are obviously true, GPS is bullocks. As long as there's no GPS app running (i.e. there's no GPS icon in the status bar), your GPS is not active and is drawing zero current. It's just a setting.
[*]Don't disable AutoSync or Background Sync. I've noticed no increase with both of them except when it pushes email, updates
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Click to collapse
For some people, with certain apps behaving in a certain way (for example business people getting emails every minute), this can really be a serious battery hug. Again no need to dumb down your phone too much, but it if you really need to squeeze out those extra hours of juice this is a valid option.
[*]Keep the brightness UP to 100 percent. I saw no difference upon lowering it.
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That's plain rubbish. More brightness = more emitted light = more emitted energy. Read a physics book someday, this really makes no sense. Display is one of the biggest battery hogs, especially when actively using your phone. Leaving it on a low brightness level sure helps heaps.
[*]Don't disable APN either. This isn't your dumbphone, it's meant to have internet. Internet won't drain your battery life if it isn't active.
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First part is true, enjoy the features your phone has. It does drain your battery though, even when inactive. There's no such thing as a free meal. Disabling mobile data won't double your battery life, but is a very valid option when you really need your phone to last just that little bit longer.
[*]SetCPU is pointless. I don't even touch it as the risk to damage your phone using it is great. There has been no solid evidence this helps your battery life other then to SLOW down your phone.
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Bullocks again. First of all, underclocking cannot damage your phone in any way. Obviously no scientist has done research (actually, someone probably has but I don't feel like googling any right now) to provide solid evidence on the matter of cpu clocking affecting battery life, but any tech-guy with some experience will disagree with you. No need to clock down your CPU to 245Mhz obviously, but a 900Mhz clock speed will still more than suffice for most users. Again this won't significantly boost battery performance, but all the small bits help.
[*]Don't use a TaskKiller - Common sense, it eats battery. Android is programmed to kill apps.
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Probably the most valuable information in this thread - spot on!
Constant heavy usage will make you last at-least a day.
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Define heavy usage. How about playing Angry Birds at 100% brightness, while listening to Pandora with your Bluetooth headset/headphones, through a 3G connection obviously. Not a very far-fetched setup eh!
I'll buy you a cookie if you last more than, say, 6 hours. You probably won't last 4 hours either but I really don't feel like buying you a cookie.

FirefighterDown said:
Constant heavy usage (without playing games or watching movies) will make you last at-least a day.
[/IMG]
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fixed
ten char

FirefighterDown said:
[*]Keep the brightness UP to 100 percent. I saw no difference upon lowering it]
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As other posters have said that is nonsense mate. You can easily see with current widget that the consumption is higher with higher brightness.

Bluetooth battery drain is the only issue
Coming from Windows 6.5 -as we all do- we all discuss the battery drainage.
All reasons for battery drainage given in this thread are true (bright screen sucks battery, 3G does etc etc.).
BUT WHY DOES THIS HD2 on ANDROID SUCK MORE BATTERY THAN THE SAME HD2 ON WINMO?
The bluetooth drivers obviously are not the right ones. On Winmo there was no significantly higher battery drainage with bluetooth on than with bluetooth off.
In all Android Roms that I have tried (and I tried them all), bluetooth empties the battery with about 60mA.
Who knows a rom that does not have this bluetooth problem?

jonny68 said:
I agree with most of what you say here but not this
Personally i think your better off keeping the brightness as low as possible as i did experience battery drain when i had it up to 100%.
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I work outside in direct sunlight, where low settings makes it not viewable. I have it to max and even at home at 40 percent, I see no changes. Probably because of my usage pattern.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

hello00 said:
I have a taskkiller and I don't notice any difference at all. Having the brightness to 100 does drain your battery that's just common sense.
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Taskkillers have been proven to drain your battery. Google themselves have said it and admitted it in complex details. There's a thread on it that Ill pull up later at home. Like I said I see no differences in my battery report.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

StephanV said:
You probably won't last 4 hours either but I really don't feel like buying you a cookie.
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Sorry for this post.... but this made me laugh hard.....

StephanV said:
Probably the most valuable information in this thread - spot on!
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So why when I run a task killer I get over a dozen apps running in list and when I close them my free RAM goes up, surley if they are using ram they are using energy?
Also surely the energy that these apps are using is MORE then the energy of the task killer itself?
There is ****loads of apps that just seem to run themselves in background and have no need to, I set my killer to kill every 30 mins or whenever screen is off aswell as manually when I choose to.
Can you provide any evidence that the task killer uses more energy then all the apps running in background combined as I seem to get much better battery with it then without it.

TheATHEiST said:
So why when I run a task killer I get over a dozen apps running in list and when I close them my free RAM goes up, surley if they are using ram they are using energy?
Also surely the energy that these apps are using is MORE then the energy of the task killer itself?
There is ****loads of apps that just seem to run themselves in background and have no need to, I set my killer to kill every 30 mins or whenever screen is off aswell as manually when I choose to.
Can you provide any evidence that the task killer uses more energy then all the apps running in background combined as I seem to get much better battery with it then without it.
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No, just being in RAM memory does not (or maybe very little) use energy. When idle, they're just stored there. A lot of apps simply restart soon after you kill them, consuming a lot more power than just leaving them be, and on top of that you may experience bad app behaviour.
Well, if those apps do stuff they shouldn't be doing, they're badly developed and should be removed or updated, simple as that. Chances are though that those apps really need to be running (and their battery consumption doesn't necessarily have to be high), in which case killing them is even worse.
A lot of well known devs have very clearly pointed this out multiple times (Cyanogen for example is one of them), even Google twittered about it. Do some research, there's plenty of info on it.

It was good to know that info, i never knew that app killers could do more damage and use more power than none at all.

TheATHEiST said:
So why when I run a task killer I get over a dozen apps running in list and when I close them my free RAM goes up, surley if they are using ram they are using energy?
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Click to collapse
No. Android kills applications to free up RAM usage when i needs them.
Also surely the energy that these apps are using is MORE then the energy of the task killer itself?
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Also incorrect, most applications are killed upon exit/back key hit. Or put into a suspended mode that eats no battery (Android Browser, Facebook etc)
There is ****loads of apps that just seem to run themselves in background and have no need to, I set my killer to kill every 30 mins or whenever screen is off aswell as manually when I choose to.
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If only that was true. Killing applications will restart them which uses RAM to restart them which can also slow down your system. Applications don't run unless they are continuously fetching/streaming data or providing a service.
Can you provide any evidence that the task killer uses more energy then all the apps running in background combined as I seem to get much better battery with it then without it.
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Ha, I don't believe you.
tl;dr version at the bottom.
Originally Posted by Google
By default, every application runs in its own Linux process. Android starts the process when any of the application's code needs to be executed, and shuts down the process when it's no longer needed and system resources are required by other applications. A content provider is active only while it's responding to a request from a ContentResolver. And a broadcast receiver is active only while it's responding to a broadcast message. So there's no need to explicitly shut down these components.
Activities, on the other hand, provide the user interface. They're in a long-running conversation with the user and may remain active, even when idle, as long as the conversation continues. Similarly, services may also remain running for a long time. So Android has methods to shut down activities and services in an orderly way:
- An activity can be shut down by calling its finish() method. One activity can shut down another activity (one it started with startActivityForResult()) by calling finishActivity().
- A service can be stopped by calling its stopSelf() method, or by calling Context.stopService().
- Components might also be shut down by the system when they are no longer being used or when Android must reclaim memory for more active components.
If the user leaves a task for a long time, the system clears the task of all activities except the root activity. When the user returns to the task again, it's as the user left it, except that only the initial activity is present. The idea is that, after a time, users will likely have abandoned what they were doing before and are returning to the task to begin something new.
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Originally Posted by Google
Activity lifecycle
An activity has essentially three states:
- It is active or running when it is in the foreground of the screen (at the top of the activity stack for the current task). This is the activity that is the focus for the user's actions.
- It is paused if it has lost focus but is still visible to the user. That is, another activity lies on top of it and that activity either is transparent or doesn't cover the full screen, so some of the paused activity can show through. A paused activity is completely alive (it maintains all state and member information and remains attached to the window manager), but can be killed by the system in extreme low memory situations.
- It is stopped if it is completely obscured by another activity. It still retains all state and member information. However, it is no longer visible to the user so its window is hidden and it will often be killed by the system when memory is needed elsewhere.
- If an activity is paused or stopped, the system can drop it from memory either by asking it to finish (calling its finish() method), or simply killing its process. When it is displayed again to the user, it must be completely restarted and restored to its previous state.
- The foreground lifetime of an activity happens between a call to onResume() until a corresponding call to onPause(). During this time, the activity is in front of all other activities on screen and is interacting with the user. An activity can frequently transition between the resumed and paused states - for example, onPause() is called when the device goes to sleep or when a new activity is started, onResume() is called when an activity result or a new intent is delivered. Therefore, the code in these two methods should be fairly lightweight.
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The following diagram illustrates these loops and the paths an activity may take between states. The colored ovals are major states the activity can be in. The square rectangles represent the callback methods you can implement to perform operations when the activity transitions between states.
tl;dr version
- Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when more memory is needed.
- Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when it's done doing what it needs to do.
- Android is hard coded to automatically kill a task when you haven't returned to it in a long time.
- Most services (while possibly running in the background) use very little memory when not actively doing something.
- A content provider is only doing something when there is a notification for it to give. Otherwise it uses very little memory.
- Killing a process when it isn't ready only causes it to have to reload itself and start from scratch when it's needed again.
- Because a task is likely running in the background for a reason, killing it will only cause it to re-spawn as soon as the activity that was using it looks for it again. And it will just have to start over again.
- Killing certain processes can have undesirable side effects. Not receiving text messages, alarms not going off, and force closes just to name a few.
- The only true way to prevent something from running at all on your phone would be to uninstall the .apk.
- Most applications will exit themselves if you get out of it by hitting "back" until it closes rather than hitting the "home" button. But even with hitting home, Android will eventually kill it once it's been in the background for a while.

StephanV said:
For some people, with certain apps behaving in a certain way (for example business people getting emails every minute), this can really be a serious battery hug. Again no need to dumb down your phone too much, but it if you really need to squeeze out those extra hours of juice this is a valid option.
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Click to collapse
Obviously you don't have push email setup. Nobody buys the HD2 for that, they buy a Blackberry. Even syncing every hour isn't going to harm your battery other then a few moments versus turning it off altogether. No noticeable differences.
That's plain rubbish. More brightness = more emitted light = more emitted energy. Read a physics book someday, this really makes no sense. Display is one of the biggest battery hogs, especially when actively using your phone. Leaving it on a low brightness level sure helps heaps.
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Click to collapse
Like I said above, has no affects on me. On a laptop, sure. Because those are 15 inch screens, not on a 4.3.
Bullocks again. First of all, underclocking cannot damage your phone in any way. Obviously no scientist has done research (actually, someone probably has but I don't feel like googling any right now) to provide solid evidence on the matter of cpu clocking affecting battery life, but any tech-guy with some experience will disagree with you. No need to clock down your CPU to 245Mhz obviously, but a 900Mhz clock speed will still more than suffice for most users. Again this won't significantly boost battery performance, but all the small bits help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you serious? Overclocking and under-clocking has already been proven to harm Intel and AMD processors on main computers in long term situations. Phones run processors just like your laptop/desktop PC does. There's been nothing to prove it helps save battery. I have never used SetCpu and think it's stupid and my phone still outlasts a buddy who runs SetCPU to underclock the CPU. Speed doesn't affect battery or you'd understand that slower CPU would take longer time to run applications, further reducing the battery.
Define heavy usage. How about playing Angry Birds at 100% brightness, while listening to Pandora with your Bluetooth headset/headphones, through a 3G connection obviously. Not a very far-fetched setup eh!is so
I'll buy you a cookie if you last more than, say, 6 hours. You probably won't last 4 hours either but I really don't feel like buying you a cookie.
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Lets use some basic mathematical skills here. Indeed I just tested this for an hour straight and the drain was 150-200ma constantly. The HD2 battery is something like 1200, 1300ma whatever in total. Lets say its 1200 (too lazy to check) that divided by 200ma drain equals six. Six hours so your logic goes out the door.
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FirefighterDown said:
Obviously you don't have push email setup. Nobody buys the HD2 for that, they buy a Blackberry. Even syncing every hour isn't going to harm your battery other then a few moments versus turning it off altogether. No noticeable differences.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure I'm with you here. I do have push email enabled, and it's one of the things I like about Android. What does Blackberry have to do with this? Missing your point.
Well, in your case, it may not be a noticeable difference. It does for people who get a lot of emails. Exactly like I said in my previous posts. What is your point?
Like I said above, has no affects on me. On a laptop, sure. Because those are 15 inch screens, not on a 4.3.
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Well, I'm 100% sure it affects you too. You can't just create energy out of nothing. Upping the intensity from lowest to highest easily adds in an extra 80mA, and that's just a rough and probably too low estimate.
Have you ever compared you HD2's battery with a laptop battery? Not quite in the same league of size now is it. Moar size = moar powers (well, kind of). Dumb laptop comparison, sorry to put it like this.
You can go ahead and try to reinvent battery usage all you want, but a 4,3" screen is and always will be one of the major battery hogs on a phone like this.
Are you serious? Overclocking and under-clocking has already been proven to harm Intel and AMD processors on main computers in long term situations. Phones run processors just like your laptop/desktop PC does. There's been nothing to prove it helps save battery. I have never used SetCpu and think it's stupid and my phone still outlasts a buddy who runs SetCPU to underclock the CPU. Speed doesn't affect battery or you'd understand that slower CPU would take longer time to run applications, further reducing the battery.
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Are you? I haven't even used the word 'overclocking' in my entire post, of course that's bad for your hardware. Underclocking isn't gonna do **** though. I'll buy you another cookie if you find a valid source backing that statement up. But let me give you a hint: ain't gonna happen José. Just sayin'. (Disclaimer: I'm talking about realistic/plausible underclocking situations here, applicable to comparable hardware)
Uhm actually there has. Moar CPU = moar heat = moar power loss = moar battery loss. Again, conservation of energy, which could be found in the book I advised you earlier (well actually a thermodynamics book would be more appropriate).
Sounds like some very valid empirical proof you got right there. I'm sorry, but I could care less about your 1 comparison with that unknown phone of your unknown buddy, whom I have no clue about if he can even properly configure SetCPU or has a properly configured battery.
Lets use some basic mathematical skills here. Indeed I just tested this for an hour straight and the drain was 150-200ma constantly. The HD2 battery is something like 1200, 1300ma whatever in total. Lets say its 1200 (too lazy to check) that divided by 200ma drain equals six. Six hours so your logic goes out the door.
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150-200mA while playing Angry Birds @ 100% Brightness, while listening internet radio through 3G and BT headphones? Sorry, that's just physically not possible, hardware-wise. Not ever ever ever ever gonna happen, so you are either lying your ass off or have no clue how to check your current usage properly.
I think I'm sounding like a major douchebag here, but I don't really get it how you feel like you know all about this stuff when very clearly your technical knowledge on this matter is really limited. I'm very happy for you that you're happy with your battery life, but don't try and preach this like t3h l33t battery solution, because put simply: it's not.

[*]Keep the brightness UP to 100 percent. I saw no difference upon lowering it.
actually this is so funny dude ..
more light NEEDS more power .. this is so simple.. like 1+1=2

[Q] About WP7.5

Hi guys, just a quick question.
Which Windows phone 7.5 mango rom is best on battery life?
I'm currently using Pdaimatejams V8 VERSION of his wp7.5 rom, and the battery life on that is terrible. 8:30am to 1pm and battery is dead .
Advice on this would be nice as these roms are huge and take ages to download, so manually checking one by one would take years.
Regards,

Not as simple as that mate, they are all more or less the same ROM.
you have the defunct BTTF line which was complicated but by far the best overall ROM with the least problems
then you have Ultrafruit Clones
the really killer on battery life comes from the radio your using and any live tiles, also BT and Wifi can kill it pretty quick too.
in short try the 2.12 hardware radio ROM and the 51t software radio, the hardware radio can be flashed whenever but the software must be installed when you flash the initial ROM.
With those you can also try the camera trick, which is tap the camera button, put it in to video mode, let it auto focus then tap the home button.
its thought that for some reason the camera doesn't stop focusing or something like that unless you do the above, loading up the camera again will mean you need to reapply the fix
anyhow, so make sure you have no background tiles killing you, your running those radios, and you have done the camera trick, all with BT and wifi off as much as possible, and it will last a day with heavy use.

dazza9075 said:
Not as simple as that mate, they are all more or less the same ROM.
you have the defunct BTTF line which was complicated but by far the best overall ROM with the least problems
then you have Ultrafruit Clones
the really killer on battery life comes from the radio your using and any live tiles, also BT and Wifi can kill it pretty quick too.
in short try the 2.12 hardware radio ROM and the 51t software radio, the hardware radio can be flashed whenever but the software must be installed when you flash the initial ROM.
With those you can also try the camera trick, which is tap the camera button, put it in to video mode, let it auto focus then tap the home button.
its thought that for some reason the camera doesn't stop focusing or something like that unless you do the above, loading up the camera again will mean you need to reapply the fix
anyhow, so make sure you have no background tiles killing you, your running those radios, and you have done the camera trick, all with BT and wifi off as much as possible, and it will last a day with heavy use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right thanks for the tips! I had 4 live tiles, moved them.
Although i'm not quite sure what you meant by the camera trick?
Say i've done a fresh boot of the phone and not opened the camera app since, will that affect the battery life?
What's the camera trick meant to do exactly and how does it increase battery life?
Thanks for your response though!

Tenpin said:
Right thanks for the tips! I had 4 live tiles, moved them.
Although i'm not quite sure what you meant by the camera trick?
Say i've done a fresh boot of the phone and not opened the camera app since, will that affect the battery life?
What's the camera trick meant to do exactly and how does it increase battery life?
Thanks for your response though!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well you need to remember that this phone was only a test phone for WP7, it never had proper drivers made for it, hence some of the issues.
if you have the 51T soft radio then you can do the "camera trick"
I don't think there is any real answer (feel free to correct me folks!) to this other than guessing but I think it goes along the lines of, the camera even when off or not even ran that session can continue to focus, which eats up the battery, its like leaving the camera on. by opening the camera, then turning to video mode, then let it focus and finally tapping the home button, it seems to dramatically reduce the discharge rate, in some cases to as low as 2-5mA
Now to be honest that sounds very low, but I guess if you turn everything off and live in a good signal strength area you may get that., ive not had it lower than 10mA, before the trick it could use anything from 30mA - 80mA for some reason it can jump up to 300mA, this is all in standby mode, putting the screen on with it set to high will zap your battery, the backlight settings are next to useless as well so its worth turning off the backlight if you can. I think the choices are, Burn your eyeballs out, wheres my sunglasses and finally Off, auto doesn't work.

dazza9075 said:
well you need to remember that this phone was only a test phone for WP7, it never had proper drivers made for it, hence some of the issues.
if you have the 51T soft radio then you can do the "camera trick"
I don't think there is any real answer (feel free to correct me folks!) to this other than guessing but I think it goes along the lines of, the camera even when off or not even ran that session can continue to focus, which eats up the battery, its like leaving the camera on. by opening the camera, then turning to video mode, then let it focus and finally tapping the home button, it seems to dramatically reduce the discharge rate, in some cases to as low as 2-5mA
Now to be honest that sounds very low, but I guess if you turn everything off and live in a good signal strength area you may get that., ive not had it lower than 10mA, before the trick it could use anything from 30mA - 80mA for some reason it can jump up to 300mA, this is all in standby mode, putting the screen on with it set to high will zap your battery, the backlight settings are next to useless as well so its worth turning off the backlight if you can. I think the choices are, Burn your eyeballs out, wheres my sunglasses and finally Off, auto doesn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
battery life is subjective...it depends on the types of apps you have installed, their use of wireless services, your personal usage habits, etc.

Yea we already established that, but what is not clear is why it can go on a melt down and drain the battery very quickly for no apparent reason one day to the next. My theory on that is that ita not fully charged. IE. its half full but reporting full, thus it may appear to drain twice as fast
Sent from my HD2 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

dazza9075 said:
Yea we already established that, but what is not clear is why it can go on a melt down and drain the battery very quickly for no apparent reason one day to the next. My theory on that is that ita not fully charged. IE. its half full but reporting full, thus it may appear to drain twice as fast
Sent from my HD2 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what day to day melt down? he only described one day's battery life of 6 hrs of use. 6hrs is not a meltdown.
it's an issue with the rom. if you READ the v8 rom thread, the v8 rom has lots of power issues. i've read many posts complaining about the poor battery life.

hjhjhj said:
what day to day melt down? he only described one day's battery life.
it's an issue with the rom. if you READ the v8 rom thread, the v8 rom has lots of power issues. i've read many posts complaining about the poor battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've only described one days, although for this entire week it has been pretty much the same. Only lasting around 6 hours.. and are you suggesting it is Pdaimatejam v8 that's causing the immense drain? Perhaps I should try this rom: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=953078?

Tenpin said:
I've only described one days, although for this entire week it has been pretty much the same. Only lasting around 6 hours.. and are you suggesting it is Pdaimatejam v8 that's causing the immense drain? Perhaps I should try this rom: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=953078?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm not suggesting anything. just conveying what other users have posted. you've posted to the v8 thread and you've seen all the posts about battery life issues since v8 was released. if you like pdaim's rom...why don't you just flash v7.9?

hjhjhj said:
what day to day melt down? he only described one day's battery life of 6 hrs of use. 6hrs is not a meltdown.
it's an issue with the rom. if you READ the v8 rom thread, the v8 rom has lots of power issues. i've read many posts complaining about the poor battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see you've not change in the months since our last encounter.
Im running the V8 as I have been running just about all his updates and there are many, as well as HD2s, xbmods and even the Ultrafruit original that this comes from, the issues are the same on all of them. But If you care to read and follow all the information available in here you will see that its quite common for the HD2 running WP to draw ~300mA in standby, that its a huge amount of power to draw when its off and would empty the battery in 4 hours, without even using it.
when it comes to battery life, nothing is clear, however we do know that it doesn't always charge the battery fully, we do know that it can incorrectly report the available charge, we do know what despite devices using identical ROMs some folk can get <7mA in standby, others get >300mA in standby.
In short its a mess.
If you have an external charger and spare battery use it, it will help with half the problem, high current usage can be down to several things and probably many more that we do not know about, all things being well, if you use your phone a lot, use an external charger, make sure you have good radios for your area installed including the 51T soft radio an then do the camera trick, you may get a working day out of it without issue.
Thats with a lot of usage, making calls, BT, excel, music, 2 email accounts set to push etc

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This is a meltdown. Overnight, no wifi, just sleeping. Tried camera trick. Nice rom and my first try at WP7.
I call this a fail.
Back in ICS now.
Sent from my HD2 using the power of ICS

just reminding, there are some problem with HD2 wp7 battery indicator which always shows wrong battery percentage...
altough it shows 0%, you still can use it for several hours....
try to change the radio SW and HW, and do camera trick...

wazzzuuuup2 said:
just reminding, there are some problem with HD2 wp7 battery indicator which always shows wrong battery percentage...
altough it shows 0%, you still can use it for several hours....
try to change the radio SW and HW, and do camera trick...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok, there maybe some problems with the battery indicator, but for sure it was deader then a dead thing. after pluggin in and restarting in android it was on 1%
i had what seemed to be the best radios and tried the camera trick.
but... apart from that, the phone was asleep (or pretending to be) with wifi and bt off.

RWatch R11

Hey, does anyone tried already the new smartwatch from RWatch? There was a project on Pozible - http://www.pozible.com/project/194853
Now it is available on GearBest for ~45$. It is a nice price of a round smartwatch with heart rate monitor, IrDA, IP67 and nice look
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Look nice! I take a sit!
Enviado desde mi MX4 mediante Tapatalk

I have found only one video about it, and yes, it is from GearBest as well. Tbh the guy recording it could have done it better, but whatever.
The final look is a little different than rendered, but still looks nice
Currently I am waiting for one piece to be shipped, finger crossed.
https://youtu.be/d5TmX6bipk0

Hello, has anyone received/tried this watch??? I recently get it, and having problems with thw touchscreen response.

I should get it by the end of the week. What problem do You have exactly?

My biggest interest is the heart rate monitor; can it be left in the background with the pedometer to keep track of your heart rate during the day.
Or is it an app you have to specifically open to check.
Also, how is the android app selection, does this only work with the RWatch app, or do we have some other choices as well ?

@John_Edward as far as I searched for it, the app on the watch need to be opened. About the apps - will tell You in couple of hours, because today is the delivery day!
@MarianoRosario I will get it today's evening, You can ask me what You want to know

KubixRevan said:
@John_Edward as far as I searched for it, the app on the watch need to be opened. About the apps - will tell You in couple of hours, because today is the delivery day!
@MarianoRosario I will get it today's evening, You can ask me what You want to know
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, let´s see what do you think of it. I´m steel having serious troubles with my touchscreen. From time to time it won´t respond to anything, and all of the suden, it start again. (sorry for the bad english...)

KubixRevan said:
@John_Edward as far as I searched for it, the app on the watch need to be opened. About the apps - will tell You in couple of hours, because today is the delivery day!
@MarianoRosario I will get it today's evening, You can ask me what You want to know
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you think for this R11? Touch, app, and sensor, work fine?

First impressions
@MarianoRosario You should respond to seller about it, everything works fine for me with the touch - to be honest that is the only part I am 100% sure that will work when I want it to work
So I guess it is something with Your device. And if You bought it on GearBest they should respond.
@ilrisolutore I must say that touch is really good. I am even capable of choosing the correct number from dialpad at the first try (but ofc I tested it like 15 or 20 times, not something for everyday use for me).
Apps... You have 3 screens with them.
On the first there is message, contacts, recent calls, dialpad, bt settings, media control, remote camera, notifications and stopwatch.
On the second antytheft, power save, sound options, pedometer, compass, face changer (analog or digital), sleep tracker, main settings and date configuration.
On the last one there is alarms, reminder (like if You sit x minutes, You should move), heart sensor, IR remote and language changer.
So. The heart monitor works fine, but is not perfect. It does check Your pulse from almost every part of Your body - it can be on the wrist, it can be finger or leg. The score can be a little different then normal (I found like +- 5 bpm difference). But it does work properly - when You start to work out or run it does show You upper score, when You point it at something that does not live, it shows nothing. But You have to have the app opened to check it, it does not work in the background nor saving the results.
IR remote is great, You need to use Your normal remote to programm it, but after it - really good.
Pedometer is kinda ok. It does have steps + meters score, but it is not that accurate.
Turning on the watch automatically when the hand is rised works like 50/50. But even if, there is a 3-4 sec lag, so You will press the button for sure if You are interested about the time.
Compass works good after calibration.
Alarm is ok, it can vibrate or play some of predefined sounds.
But I have couple of problems with connection. Maybe it is because of MiBand, which I didn't unpair for the time using R11. Will see. But when connected - it works fine, showing up to 5 new notifications. If it is Twitter/Messenger or SMS You can for sure read whole message. And that is cool.
About the battery - when I tested it, using heart monitor, IR, vibration and dis/connecting all the time it handled 5 hours of sleep + 10.5 hours of work. Today after ~9h of work I have 3/5 of battery (but I turned off vibration, since the MiBand vibrates). So I guess it won't stand more then one day.
During the weekend I will try to upload the unboxing, both in Polish and English
After it, I guess at the end of the month, I will upload whole review (probably polish language + english subtitles).
If You have any questions - tell me

KubixRevan said:
@MarianoRosario You should respond to seller about it, everything works fine for me with the touch - to be honest that is the only part I am 100% sure that will work when I want it to work
So I guess it is something with Your device. And if You bought it on GearBest they should respond.
@ilrisolutore I must say that touch is really good. I am even capable of choosing the correct number from dialpad at the first try (but ofc I tested it like 15 or 20 times, not something for everyday use for me).
Apps... You have 3 screens with them.
On the first there is message, contacts, recent calls, dialpad, bt settings, media control, remote camera, notifications and stopwatch.
On the second antytheft, power save, sound options, pedometer, compass, face changer (analog or digital), sleep tracker, main settings and date configuration.
On the last one there is alarms, reminder (like if You sit x minutes, You should move), heart sensor, IR remote and language changer.
So. The heart monitor works fine, but is not perfect. It does check Your pulse from almost every part of Your body - it can be on the wrist, it can be finger or leg. The score can be a little different then normal (I found like +- 5 bpm difference). But it does work properly - when You start to work out or run it does show You upper score, when You point it at something that does not live, it shows nothing. But You have to have the app opened to check it, it does not work in the background nor saving the results.
IR remote is great, You need to use Your normal remote to programm it, but after it - really good.
Pedometer is kinda ok. It does have steps + meters score, but it is not that accurate.
Turning on the watch automatically when the hand is rised works like 50/50. But even if, there is a 3-4 sec lag, so You will press the button for sure if You are interested about the time.
Compass works good after calibration.
Alarm is ok, it can vibrate or play some of predefined sounds.
But I have couple of problems with connection. Maybe it is because of MiBand, which I didn't unpair for the time using R11. Will see. But when connected - it works fine, showing up to 5 new notifications. If it is Twitter/Messenger or SMS You can for sure read whole message. And that is cool.
About the battery - when I tested it, using heart monitor, IR, vibration and dis/connecting all the time it handled 5 hours of sleep + 10.5 hours of work. Today after ~9h of work I have 3/5 of battery (but I turned off vibration, since the MiBand vibrates). So I guess it won't stand more then one day.
During the weekend I will try to upload the unboxing, both in Polish and English
After it, I guess at the end of the month, I will upload whole review (probably polish language + english subtitles).
If You have any questions - tell me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, good response
No.1 Sun S2 Smart Watch it's better then this?

For sure bigger and much more shiny. I think that is a basic question - what is Your taste?
R11 is much more elegant and is a little bit more like a classic normal watch.

If you wanna have a go with some different apps, I've listed a few that could work here.
Even if they don't work would be good to know.
And for battery life, there is a giant difference between true standby and daily use.
The R11 was advertised as having over 100 hours standby (4 days), but no info on screen-on time.
But I'll use my Nexus 7 tablet: Stand by time is roughly 8 days, or 216 hours (18mAh or 0.46%/hour). Screen on, you get 6 hours at 17%/hour.
So for each hour you have the screen on, you lose roughly 37 hours of standby time.
Something similar will happen for the R11.
But hey, as long as it lasts from when you wake up till you go back to bed, does it really matter ?
ilrisolutore said:
Thanks, good response
No.1 Sun S2 Smart Watch it's better then this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A really hard question.
The camera on the S2 is useless, the charging dock is really nice, and the body is completely subjective.
The big difference would be the software, but you can't really compare them without actually having both.
If you are deciding between the S2 and R11 and really can't decide, look at your wrist; if it's big, get the S2, if it's small, the R11. And by big I mean gigantic, the S2 is huge.

Hello! Which notifications work on this watch? I use Viber and Facebook Messenger alot. Will Viber work? What about mail syncronisation? I use gmail and my work mail... Thank you for your answer! Greetings from Croatia

@John_Edward I cannot install "MediaTek SmartDevice" - Error 505. And from the other apps only SmartWatch is working correctly (and is recommended by the company itself).
About the time - it is a problem if it not last all day And if somebody want to use it for the alarm or sleep tracker, then it will be also a problem.
@kkranjc7 All notifications. You can choose it in the app and then if the message comes (it can be an e-mail, TT, facebook etc.) it will be displayed on the watch (see example below). Also greetings from Poland I have visited Croatia 2 years ago, great country!

505 basically means you already have an app that steals a certain permission for itself, so no other similar apps can be installed at the same time.
Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

Oh, good to know, thanks. It is probably because of the app for MiBand, will see.
Also I tried to use the R11 with my BlackBerry Z10, but it is a no go - the watch is seen by BT as an external keyboard. And since there is no option to change the default input method, when the device is connected You cannot input any letters. So the R11 is not for BlackBerry OS.

I need help setting up the TV remote control, I do not have the instruction for setting it up. Can you sent me a link or a copy of the instruction it would be greatly appreciated.

@krambrown You need to have the original remote control. Then enter the 'television' or 'other' section, aim the IrDA from remote control at the IrDA in R11 and press the key You want to program. Repeat for all the buttons.
So e.g. You want to program the on/off button for Your Samsung TV, enter 'television' in R11, take the Samsung remote control and aim at the R11 IrDA. Then press the on/off button on Samsung remote control while pointing at smartwatch. If successful, the R11 will vibrate and highlight next button to program.

Can you write a response for an SMS straight from the watch ?
How about email, whatsapp, hangouts etc ?
Also, one issue that came up for another watch; if you have an sms with an emoji, how does the R11 behave ?
Some watches completely refuse to show any messages with emojis in them.

No.1 D5+ - biased review and some tips

I bought this watch about month ago. This was also my first Android phone. I would like to share my experience as I noticed many unanswered questions in D5+ threads here.
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First, why my review is suppose to be biased? It's biased simply because I'm not very typical user. I'm minimalist sort of. Yep, sounds funny when put in context with device that can do almost anything. So let me explain. I need no social media, no funny movies on Youtube, no camera. But I need badly phone on standby, gps with topo maps, and occasionally email or weather check.
Now some background of mine. I'm the happy owner of Nokia E52 - incredible device that offers phone, navigation, and (sluggish) internet. What is so special about this Nokia? Battery life. This phone runs Symbian and offers full day of gps navigation (Garmin!), gpx tracking (Endomondo) and phone availability. And weighs only 98 grams! Find me something like this with Android and I'm in.
I promised myself I will never buy phone that has everything worse than my Nokia. So why I was tempted to buy D5+? Well, I was tempted to have something even smaller and more convenient - also safer when resting on my wrist. I was always too much afraid to attach my precious Nokia to bicycle handle bar. Watch phone looks like a prefect idea for cycling. You can hear navigation audio and cycle through the great unknown. At least that was my dream. In the same time I was painfully aware that buying Chinese watch for 100 bucks is naive - to say the least. Was it really a mistake? After a month of playing with the thing I'm almost ready to say no. Why I'm not sure yet? Just because I still don't know one thing - how durable is this watch. But if it appears to last - I can say - IT'S GREAT WATCH!
What are the main achievements of this watch?
1. Android. works really smooth. No delays. Apps open immediately - much faster than on my Nexus 7 (2012 - Marshmallow CM 13.1). Not even once crashed. Booting time is less than a minute. Nice and easy.
2. Phone service. After careful setup, I estimate phone can make 40 hours on standby (only 2G, no wifi, no bluetooth, no mobile data) I never really tested it that long. It's hard to leave new toy unattended. But when I left it for 8 hours sleep battery could go only 12% down. GSM module feels very reliable. Watch connects to the network immediately - no troubles at all.
Being a minimalist - crucial thing for me was to have standalone phone watch. I don't dig this idea to have one big phone on the butt and one smaller baby speaker on my wrist. I would rather hang an earing on my tit than carry two phones.
I wanted to have it all in one small piece. But what about talking to your wrist? Well, It's not that bad as it seems. You can rise your hand to your ear and pretend that you have a phone. Or hide behind the corner. Quality of the tiny speaker is not bad at all. But it used to be - at least in my piece. After taking off the cover I noticed that tiny piece of rubber seal (under the speaker frame - not the big round seal) is touching the membrane. After pushing it aside the voice became very clear. The 2G communication sometime lacks clarity but It's not the watch but transmission itself. My Nokia is not much better in 2G mode. Mike works good, I'm very well understood by the caller. I tested conversation while riding my bicycle - works fine.
3. Wifi works great. Range is not in any way inferior to my Nexus 7 or Onyx reader. Browsing internet is fast, downloading as well. I was able to walk around my home and listen to BBC radio with no breaks. Google Play store also works like it should.
Bluetooth pairs easy with my Plantronics stereo headset though max music volume seems to be rather low - contrary to the phone conversation.
4. Mobile data gave me some hard time before I discovered that I had to manually chose the right provider (roaming enabled). Automatic mode doesn't connect to the right network when it comes to data - sometimes I get it sometimes not. There is also other obstacle. Watch seems to take a lot of power to use mobile data. It heats up tremendously. 5 minutes of mobile browsing can take 10 % of battery! I think something is not quite right here.
5. Apps. This is a full Android so you can install anything. Round screen is the only limitation that comes to mind. The latest firmware does have optional square mode but it makes app UI even smaller so I don't use it/
Google voice search works really great. Phone understands me better than my people - unless I speak Polish. You can also download language pack for offline speech to text. Keyboard input is possible if you have good eyesight and steady hands. I tried also google handwriting - it works but I always have trouble with "l" vs "i".
6. Last but not least - GPS. My watch had to have working GPS. So before I bought it I watched this helpful video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJBM5Y2ULDc
And that's exactly like it is. You can get gps fix even in the building (by the window - no wifi, no data) but only when you don't wear your watch on the wrist. Hand introduces serious interference to the signal - also by changing impedance of the antenna - basically changing parameters of the whole hardware setup. I red some scientific papers showing that worst disturbance (lowest antenna gain) happened when gps patch antenna was 5 centimeters from the body. But... I found that outside it is good enough - even with my winter cloths on - to provide gpx tracking and basic navigation. I mean, when riding bicycle, it can lose fix for a while so it can skip the turn command but in general it works. You can see where you are
Now example: I made 4 hour trip (17 km.) through snowy mountains covered with dense forests. Watch was on my wrist under the thick winter clothing. Osmand navigation was all the time on with continues use of GPS setting. Half of the way I made in airplane mode and half in 2G with one short conversation. In the forest gps fix occasionally got lost but it recovered by itself showing my position nicely.
For some half an hour I used voice navigation to know where to make a turn. I was than in the open space, in the village and it worked like charm. I checked the map maybe 20-30 times total (rather shortly) and the watch lasted all 4 hours. I see ir as a successes. 450 mAh battery should be able to get charged 5 times by my powerbank so it's not that bad when comparing to big Android phones.
Below you can see actual gpx track of that trip - exported to Endomondo when I got back. As you see, altitude reporting is not reliable at all but otherwise gpx trail is not that bad. Osmand navigation has great topo capabilities so watch was really able to help me not to get lost (I had my Nokia in the backpack but I didn't use it).
Update: Osmand working in the background can sometimes make phone call hard to understand by the other person. So you can consider turning on "battery saving" before answering the call. This will disconnect the GPS.
I also encourage any hikers, cyclists to install Gpx Plugin. It let's you to automatically record the track but there is more to it - after right configuration it also shows actual live track in real time which greatly improves orientation on the small screen. You just know which way you got to the point you are in so you know which direction to head.
I'm thinking of buying some bluetooth GPS logger for longer trips - in hope of saving battery and improving accuracy. But it will be a compromise. After all I didn't want to have two devices on me...
No.1 D5+ Problems and solutions:
1. Settings. Watch lacks many of the settings available on average Android device. Solution: Setting Search app from PlayStore helps in finding hidden settings.
2. Quick access to your favorite apps is not that easy when you have to scroll down through all apps list (scrolling itself works great). Best solution for me: app called Swipe Padd. With correct setting and a little practice you can turn on your fav apps without even looking at the screen.
4. Small font for poor eyesight (like mine). Solution: Install Engineering Mode app and very carefully tweak font settings. Doesn't work in every app but now I can read sms with font bigger than on my Nokia E52.
5. App buttons and other stuff hidden in the corners. Solution: You can configure three tap zoom (hidden setting) and use it close to the edge. It will reveal hidden content. Other option is to configure watch to use square mode (newest firmware only)
6. GPS fix. Solution: reboot the watch - for me it works without using other popular methods like editing cfg file or downloading agps data. Watch is not rooted and it gets a fix while sitting on my window seal - with mobile data, wifi and bluettoh off, 2G and high accuracy on. If you still have troubles try to enable wifi to download agps data and install gps test to observe the satellite signals.(remember to turn off wifi when you go outside).
7. Osmand navigation UI troubles. Solution: You can use three tap zoom to operate hidden buttons or menu. It works. I edited original apk to show missing zoom-out, menu buttons etc. also made arrow larger (see the first photo above)
It's good to download Gpx Recording Plugin (from Osmand Plugin menu - it's free). With the right configuration it stops Osmand services when you close the app (by sweeping). Without it Osmand will still try to navigate you - even if you closed it by sweeping. To shut it up you have to reboot the watch or it will kill your battery. It's well known problem of Osmand where developers don't wish to listen to the users - they know better.
8. Battery life. Solution: turn off all possible syncs, disable whattsap, google location services, use 2G, mobile data off, wifi off, bluetooth off. If you are not navigating use watch with the battery saving mode (available from the home screen). Sim module still works.
9. Firmware update. I works via OTA quite fine. But I advice you before any upgrade to visit manufacturers site and read possible complaints from users. It saved me from troubles when I was about to update my firmware. I found it was buggy so I skipped install and waited for another firmware update. It came but on my watch the older bad update option persisted so I had to flash the new one from PC. I used this method: https://forum.hovatek.com/thread-439.html
To summarize, it looks that this is really good watch if it only stays this way. The biggest concern is a strap. I disconnected it from the watch on one side and it had two holes for antennas. There was a black antenna cable in one hole connecting strap to the watch. I guess that on the other side there are two antennas. It makes together three so one antenna has to have two functions. Anyway, for now strap seems to be sturdy but what will come with the summer sweat?
Certainly this isn't a watch for people who are afraid of tweaking this and that, reading and experimenting. They will always complain about battery life, small screen and hidden buttons. In general I find Android a geeky system. Level of knowledge to use it efficiently is quite high so if you don't enjoy problem solving better buy iPhone.
I've shared my experience in hope to help you decide if this watch can answer your needs. For those few that managed to read it all, please correct me if I've made any errors. Hopefully some development follows another happy users.
Update: Now, after using watch for the last half a year I can tell this: Watch definitely is not water proof. Water can get behind the screen and make screen go nuts. It persist for long until the thing dries form inside. There is a solution: I took my watch apart and applied sealant to the frame where screen glass comes. Then I pushed glass inside and used some pressure to make it tight. After that, watch is not afraid to be splashed with water - I use it also when kayaking.
When cycling, for the good GPS reception you can fasten watch around the brake cables of the bike. With this setup gps is almost as precise as of regular big phone. During longer rides It can be also safely charged in this position from power bank. Small 3000 mAh power bank will give you at least two full days of navigation and trip recording. All accompanied by active GSM module to tell your family you are fine.

Wow, what a long post.

Well, its ok to use it on wifi