Database Users

Customizing vs. N1

So I may jump ship from the N1 to the Vibrant. On the N1, in less than ten minutes I can run a nandroid backup, flash a new kernel, new radio and a new rom. In another 3-4 minutes, I can switch back. I've literally switched kernels >3 times/day before. How much different will things be on the Vibrant? Is it harder to do these things? Is there as much risk?
Thanks

right now no one knows, there is no custom kernels, custom recovery, custom roms, etc

There are custom roms and you can easily root the device...but it will obviously take some time to reach N1's customization...

I've had my G1(I know, not the N1) since day 1, and I've been flashing roms since day one. The only reason I flashed roms was because I felt the G1 was lacking in a lot of things. Now that I have the Vibrant, I feel like there's no need to flash a different rom. It's already pretty fast, and I actually like the touchwiz UI. The UI doesnt completely take over the Android interface, it's more like adding extra little features.

ultra spikey said:
I've had my G1(I know, not the N1) since day 1, and I've been flashing roms since day one. The only reason I flashed roms was because I felt the G1 was lacking in a lot of things. Now that I have the Vibrant, I feel like there's no need to flash a different rom. It's already pretty fast, and I actually like the touchwiz UI. The UI doesnt completely take over the Android interface, it's more like adding extra little features.
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Exactly, plus the Black/Blue color scheme is far better looking to me over stock Android. TouchWiz is not like Sense or previous generations of the skin and that's a good thing.

Ill second that. I am really enjoying my touch wiz interface and I didn't think I would. That being said I miss my app drawer that slid up from the bottom.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I don't know much about flashing to different ROMs yet, but I can give you an overview of the TouchWiz experience from my viewpoint.
Coming from an iPhone, I really like TouchWiz 3.0. And believe me when I tell you: that was their goal with the UI. It screams Apple, in layout and function. But of course, it ultimately feels a bit like an imitation in some areas. I feel like they rushed TouchWiz 3.0 out of the door.
The Clocks and Alarms app is much better than the iPhone's, which is something I was not at all expecting. It's really quite nice. The calendar app is about on par, in terms of layout. The upper hand is that this syncs OTA with Google's cloud services. The music player is very 'iPod-like', but is ultimately a rush job (embedded album art does not work very often and so forth).
All things considered, it's a really nice UI for Android.
That said, there are some really basic functions which did not make the transition from stock Android. For example: you cannot fully edit contacts in the 'Contacts' app. You cannot delete them, you cannot add custom ringtones. Coming from the iPhone, where I had meticulously completed the profiles of every contact with an obscene amount of info and custom ringtones, this is annoying.
There are a few 'little things' like that, which really matter to me. And this has kind of soured the experience for me, making me second-guess my decision. To be honest, I'm still sort of on the fence over this of the N1 as my iPhone replacement.
The grey area for me is in Android 3.0's release. Google has stated that they're going to overhaul the UI. The idea is that they want to make it more user-friendly, to make the use of custom skins less prevalent. Well, I'm all for this. Trouble is: will these handset manufacturers adopt it, considering their vested interests in their custom experiences?
Samsung's UI is definitely my favorite out of Sense, MotoBlur and the lot. But I'd be lying if I said that I didn't wish for a Nexus One for the security of owning the only unlocked stock device.
Hope that helps...

Give it some time and stock Android will be on the Vibrant. Thats the great thing about Android and Xda.

Yeah, I really love the idea of xda and the amount of support that all of these devices receive from the community. Of course, the trouble is: if you root for a custom rom - even if it's stock Android - the N1 is the only solution for getting OTA updates regularly. With stock Android on the Galaxy S, you're going to have to re-flash every time the ROM is updated. Not the end of the world, but definitely irritating.
Running a JB/Unlocked iPhone, I'm used to dealing with work-arounds, and waiting for hacks. That's the price I paid for using a non-carrier phone. I couldn't accept the automatic updates from Apple, and this became a mild annoyance (reinstalling everything and so forth). But when you decide to 'play nice' and own a carrier-specific phone, you kind of want the experience of timely OTA, non-hacking-related updates that simply update your device, without first wiping it clean.
Know what I mean?
I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep my Galaxy S, or buy an N1 while there's still time (the 'rumors'? of the N1's touchscreen issues are really all that held me back). But either way, I hope that all devices have some way to experience the latest and greatest from Google.

The touchscreen is bad on that phone especially when it comes to multitouch. I'm sure you've already seen the videos comparing the two touchpads and the Vibrant's touchscreen is SO accurate... multitouch included.

Jon C said:
Yeah, I really love the idea of xda and the amount of support that all of these devices receive from the community. Of course, the trouble is: if you root for a custom rom - even if it's stock Android - the N1 is the only solution for getting OTA updates regularly. With stock Android on the Galaxy S, you're going to have to re-flash every time the ROM is updated. Not the end of the world, but definitely irritating.
Running a JB/Unlocked iPhone, I'm used to dealing with work-arounds, and waiting for hacks. That's the price I paid for using a non-carrier phone. I couldn't accept the automatic updates from Apple, and this became a mild annoyance (reinstalling everything and so forth). But when you decide to 'play nice' and own a carrier-specific phone, you kind of want the experience of timely OTA, non-hacking-related updates that simply update your device, without first wiping it clean.
Know what I mean?
I'm still not sure if I'm going to keep my Galaxy S, or buy an N1 while there's still time (the 'rumors'? of the N1's touchscreen issues are really all that held me back). But either way, I hope that all devices have some way to experience the latest and greatest from Google.
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While its a little early to be 100% yet but Android hacking is a lot different than iphone hacking. The iphone is a closed system and you have to wait till its broken open to update. Android is already open when its released. As for OTAs if Cyanogen supports the Vibrant then there is an app to download and install new updates. Typically if you stay with the same developer, like Cyanogen, then you don't have to wipe when there are updates.

After froyo 2.2 all my touch screen problems was gone.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

So untrue after froyo 2.2 those problems was fix the nexus one is a awsome phone.and I believe the same for the vibrant.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Can you do me the world's biggest favor?
Would you make some YouTube videos, showing the multitouch tests of your N1? I so, so, so, would love to own one, but I have zero tolerance for faulty hardware. I've been researching this stuff since the N1 launch, and it's the only thing holding me back from purchasing that device.
'Multitouch Vis Test' is probably the easiest way, but if you can think of others to test with, that would be great.

Jon C said:
The music player is very 'iPod-like', but is ultimately a rush job (embedded album art does not work very often and so forth).
.
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I haven't used my iPod Nano 4th Gen in some time, I find that the N1 is handling my music needs just fine. But if I had a nickel for every time album art was hosed on my iPod Nano I would not have a mortgage anymore...

hah2110 said:
So I may jump ship from the N1 to the Vibrant. On the N1, in less than ten minutes I can run a nandroid backup, flash a new kernel, new radio and a new rom. In another 3-4 minutes, I can switch back. I've literally switched kernels >3 times/day before. How much different will things be on the Vibrant? Is it harder to do these things? Is there as much risk?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First you must know that the process is completely different. For right now most roms are installed through the Odin process. This process completely wipes all of the information on the phone (including apps and settings) and then installs the new rom. So you will have to backup your apps and settings every time you change roms (Titanium backup would work but it's not always fool proof). Second all roms are going to be based off of Samsung code. That means no Sense roms, no stock roms (well you can get the stock launcher but your dialer and notification bar will always be touchwized), and no froyo until Samsung releases there own version. This has been true so far with all previous Samsung phones and looking at the development with the I9000 it seems to hold true for the Galaxy S. All this does put you at less risk of bricking your phone but it does mean you also have less chance of serious customization. Also with limited source code for the I9000 (there are some drivers that are not source code but actually compiled) it's very difficult to just plop roms on from other sources.

psychoace said:
First you must know that the process is completely different. For right now most roms are installed through the Odin process. This process completely wipes all of the information on the phone (including apps and settings) and then installs the new rom. So you will have to backup your apps and settings every time you change roms (Titanium backup would work but it's not always fool proof). Second all roms are going to be based off of Samsung code. That means no Sense roms, no stock roms (well you can get the stock launcher but your dialer and notification bar will always be touchwized), and no froyo until Samsung releases there own version. This has been true so far with all previous Samsung phones and looking at the development with the I9000 it seems to hold true for the Galaxy S. All this does put you at less risk of bricking your phone but it does mean you also have less chance of serious customization. Also with limited source code for the I9000 (there are some drivers that are not source code but actually compiled) it's very difficult to just plop roms on from other sources.
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Why can't CM do his thing?

cm is trying to port cyanogen to the vibrant. in fact ive read that the vibrant and the droid x are his 2 top priorities so it will come soon enough. and once he gets it done we will probibly see a bunch of roms based of cyanogen

blazewit said:
cm is trying to port cyanogen to the vibrant. in fact ive read that the vibrant and the droid x are his 2 top priorities so it will come soon enough. and once he gets it done we will probibly see a bunch of roms based of cyanogen
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I have yet to see any information confirming any of that. First on his twitter he only seems to be working on the Evo right now. Second I doubt he would work on the Droid x until it's rooted (which most likely will be never). Last I have seen only a small pattern of talk about someone in conversation with Cyanogen about allowing a Galaxy branch of the CM code for use with the Galaxy S. Problem is this doesn't solve the issue of not having source code for a few drivers. This does not even attack the issue of getting the rom onto the phone. So don't hold your breath for any of that.

yea your right it was just one site claiming that cm is working on the vibrant,from what i can tell gothdroid and a bunch of other g1/dream devs are working right now for custom recovery and porting cm6 and froyo asop

Cyanogen mod for dummies

I did my homework, and have come up mostly empty. Read what I could find on the CM site; wikipedia; blogs; newsgroups; and a lot more. Probably at least 2 hours trying to get a comparative handle on CM vs. stock release derived ROMs.
After all that, I'm only a tiny bit closer to understanding what I gain, and what I give up, going to CM.
If there if a good, detailed articulation of this somewhere, please help us CM noobs with a pointer; Otherwise, I'd like to start a thread to capture as much detailed information about comparing CM to stock-based ROMs so people can make informed choices.
Sent from my mind using telepathitalk

http://wiki.cyanogenmod.com/index.php?title=What_is_CyanogenMod

Thanks, that's a start, but in truth it's information like that that prompted my starting this thread.
That's generic information. Only moderately helpful in judging specifically for the Epic whether I should go CM, or with another custom ROM.
For example, info like this: CM does not include the accelerated Samsung video player, and doesn't handle many video formats and codings well in comparison. So, if playing h264 coded video in mkv containers is important to you, CM will be a challenge, where Bonsai, ACS, Midnight, etc. will be a much simpler choice to meet your needs.
Sent from my mind using telepathitalk

Think about it like this. If you buy a PC from a big company (HP, Dell, etc) it comes with a fully functional install of software. Windows + drivers + all other crap they decide you should have. That is equivalent to the Samsung ROM that comes stock on Epic.
What if you build your own PC from components? You will install Windows, then you will dig up the drivers you need separately, and then load your own applications.
Android AOSP in this comparison is the "base" install of Windows. Nothing else added in.
The drivers and other changes required to make the base Android work with your hardware is CyanogenMod.
So basically, Samsung based roms will have all the functioning drivers and everything else in them. Dev's tear them apart and remove/change what they don't want, but don't have to worry much about hardware cause the drivers are straight from Samsung.
AOSP based roms (CyanogenMod) will be utterly broken and have no hardware support at first. Developers have to write real lines of code into the software to make it support the Epic or any other phone. The are built from the ground up. That is why it is so amazing what Team CM7 has already got working in so little time!

Again, thanks for the sincere attempts to answer this qualitatively. However, that's not the issue. See my example above.
What you describe above with the custom PC example, while true, isn't informative enough for most people to make an informed decision.
Knowing that CM is free of carrier bloatware doesn't help me understand in any way that the video player with CM had some important limitations when compared to the optimized video player Samsung includes. For some people, this may be a critical issue in making a decision.
It is those sort of specific differences that I thought would be helpful to enumerate and capture. Of course anyone can simply install the ROM and discover for themselves... Judging by my own struggle to find enough information to make an informed choice myself, I thought others might benefit from nailing this stuff down.
So far, it looks like I may have been mistaken?
Sent from my mind using telepathitalk

dwallersv said:
Again, thanks for the sincere attempts to answer this qualitatively. However, that's not the issue. See my example above.
What you describe above with the custom PC example, while true, isn't informative enough for most people to make an informed decision.
Knowing that CM is free of carrier bloatware doesn't help me understand in any way that the video player with CM had some important limitations when compared to the optimized video player Samsung includes. For some people, this may be a critical issue in making a decision.
It is those sort of specific differences that I thought would be helpful to enumerate and capture. Of course anyone can simply install the ROM and discover for themselves... Judging by my own struggle to find enough information to make an informed choice myself, I thought others might benefit from nailing this stuff down.
So far, it looks like I may have been mistaken?
Sent from my mind using telepathitalk
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So, you're looking for a more hand held description of what CM7 doesn't have?
....

Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I can give you the best piece of advice....
This is a development site, not a front end rom publishing site..
If there's not already documentation, test the differences yourself, and report the findings for the next gentleman who comes along with your same questions...
Then before too long you're not a "noob" anymore..
But to answer your question, cyanogen is a more bare bones android experience.. it is built off of the AOSP (ANDROID OPEN SOURCE PROJECT).. It is stripped of any carrier or manufacturer additions (like HTC Sense or Touchwiz).. and is usually a cleaner and less buggy experience... Then the cyanogen team customizes and polishes features... (like menu infused theming instead of flashable zips..)
If you're too scared of bricking during experimental build testing, etc, this isn't the place for you...
Sent from my Samsung-SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

Will Cm7 on the epic have no CIQ?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App

Sorry for the double post, the xda app submitted when open the physical keyboard. I too have been wondering what the big deal is with cm.. I can't find any concrete info that tells me what is so great about it. I'm on acs now and love it.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Overstew said:
Will Cm7 on the epic have no CIQ?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
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It will not have CIQ. That is from Sprint, and this will have no traces of sprint whatsoever.

CM is completely customizable, it comes with all kinds of tweaks to make the phone a whole lot smoother, it gets updated constantly, and since its based on AOSP you can really do what ever you want with it. Whereas a stock samsung ROM you have to be careful what you do cause so many things rely on frame work and what not. The CM team is absolutely amazing the wrote code completely from scratch for $g and full HDMI mirroring to work on the evo. Also the size of the rom, CM is around 80 mb where most stock roms are 200, so you will have that much more space on the phone.

To set the record straight, I am hardly a "noob" in the sense that some here seem to think. I'm building kernels for my own use, and am working on a rewrite of the keyboard driver to more completely fix the problem so skillfully determined and patched by mkasick.
What I'm "noob" at is understanding in detail what I gain, and give up, by installing CM over the other custom ROMs based on stock releases. I have the broad strokes -- I need more specifics to decide if it's worth the hassle to give it a try.
We now have two new pieces of valuable information not obvious in any of the general info out there: Compromised video support (negative), no CIQ (positive). So, a little progress.
Sent from my mind using telepathitalk

i doubt anyone actually knows what you're asking....
Cyanogenmod is just pure android no bloatware from sprint/sammy
the way android was meant to be.

Pretty simple: If it is software that is added by a carrier or a manufacture (Sprint ID, touchWhiz, Samsungs Video Codecs) It will not be there. What it does have:
CM UI Tweaks, CM Hardware Tweaks, CM Performance enhancement options (adjustable heapsize) Default install location, Screen On Animation, Surface Dithering, Locking the Homescreen App in memory (so it doesn't rebuild it self when you press home), locking the messaging app in memory, DSP Audio Manager for Custom EQ setups over BT, Speaker, and head phones, Lock screen gestures, Lock screen music controls....
This is all of the top of my head.

Kcarpenter said:
Pretty simple: If it is software that is added by a carrier or a manufacture (Sprint ID, touchWhiz, Samsungs Video Codecs) It will not be there. What it does have:
CM UI Tweaks, CM Hardware Tweaks, CM Performance enhancement options (adjustable heapsize) Default install location, Screen On Animation, Surface Dithering, Locking the Homescreen App in memory (so it doesn't rebuild it self when you press home), locking the messaging app in memory, DSP Audio Manager for Custom EQ setups over BT, Speaker, and head phones, Lock screen gestures, Lock screen music controls....
This is all of the top of my head.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
O O Don't forget the BJ's Feature
i even dumped my GF

There's a lot of misinformed posting going on in here.
First of all, CyanogenMod is NOT AOSP. It is, however, more AOSP than Samsung's or HTC's stock ROMs. It is based on AOSP and built from the ground-up, but AOSP it is not.
AOSP is the bones on which everything you see on Android is built. Some phones have true, pure AOSP builds, but we do not. The CyanogenMod project, once completely, will allow a build of AOSP to run on the Epic since they share all the same drivers, but, once again, that doesn't make CyanogenMod completely AOSP, as people so willingly say.
Now, what IS CyanogenMod?
The goal is quite simple: It aims to achieve a single user-experience across multiple platforms through the use of open-source software and alternatives. One thing you can expect from the base CyanogenMod experience is that if you are running CyanogenMod7-RC2 on your MyTouch 3G Slide, you can talk to you friend who is using CyanogenMod7-RC2 on his HTC Evo 4G and be able to completely understand everything each other's phone can provide (sans hardware differences, such as CPU speeds and front-facing camera).
It is also meant to open new doors for developers to completely customize their user experience. Every last part of the CyanogenMod experience is open source. That's how new features are almost constantly being added.
Another goal is to keep every phone up-to-date with the newest version of Android as it is rolled out. Providing a basic starting ground for every phone means that patching the Android system to the latest version is considerably easier. That's why, several times, I've mentioned that the work done by noobnl on CyanogenMod6 has helped us getting where we are with CyanogenMod7. While we are not using it verbatim, the work points us in the right direction and shows us how to easily fix what is broken.
People are asking questions like "Will program X be left in" or "Does this add X". The answers are a lot more complicated than just yes or no. The fact of the matter is that, for the most part, NOTHING from the stock Samsung software is included. Apps may resemble what was in your stock experience, but that's only because Samsung based their own software after their AOSP counterparts. With that said, none of Sprint's bloatware is on CyanogenMod. I'm not even sure the most of them would even work. Things like Nascar, Sprint TV, and the like just are not there because the system is not built around them, plain and simple.
Because of this lack of bloat, you are gaining much in the way of speed, performance, and usability. Carrier IQ isn't there to bog your phone down. Useless DRM services aren't running in the background, eating your battery. The Sprint Apps aren't taking up valuable space in your phone's memory. It's clean.
Another thing CyanogenMod will provide to the community is a basis to provide some real meaty ROMs. Right now, for the most part, the ROMs are reskins and rehashes of other ROMs, save two or three. Fight as you might, but that's the truth. CyanogenMod is completely different and will allow developers more control over what they are doing. A lot of cool features can be made, such as autoupdaters and random system tweaks, and they can all be built in. For example, if you look at CyanogenMod now, you'll notice that ADW is the default launcher, and its settings are integrated into the phone's settings instead of being a standalone.
And the beauty of it all is that everything can be made to work how you please. For those worried about the video codec problem, it's a problem that can be solved simply by making those codecs work on CyanogenMod, which shouldn't involve too much trickery.
I hope this answers your question.

I concur. You are really thinking too far into things. There are very few limitations that cm7 will bring. For all of these, there are other apps that rectify it.
Sent from my Samsung-SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

Thanks Devin for a great response. Why is it we needed development to come give a nice answer... and the rest of the users just wanted to be know it all jerks?

skywalkr2 said:
Thanks Devin for a great response.
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agreed, thanks
Why is it we needed development to come give a nice answer... and the rest of the users just wanted to be know it all jerks?
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aww man, don't do that.. it doesn't really help anything, it just invites people to get all butt hurt about your being butt hurt about whatever the ****.. Just let it go.
My only question about CM is the obvious one.. "Is it done yet? (for my phone obviously)"

[HTC] HTCdev - OpenSense SDK

Committed to the developer community, we're launching http://www.HTCdev.com and opening Sense to devs via OpenSense SDK #uplinq #HTC
We know that, by supporting your ideas, the benefits customers get from our technology can increase exponentially. HTCdev is designed to give you the inspiration to explore the possibilities within the HTC platform, the support you need to develop your ideas, the platform you need to promote your applications and the forum to connect with other developers and with HTC. Through tools, tutorials, blogs and events, HTCdev is dedicated to helping you get the most from your talent and potential. And we can’t wait to get started.
http://www.htcdev.com/about/

Looks like my next phone may be HTC afterall.

Habbit said:
Looks like my next phone may be HTC afterall.
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ya i could agree my first batch of phones were htc then i moved off but i could say i will be getting the sensation afterall the bootloader business etc.

this is great news! glad HTC has decided to embrace the open dev community instead of creating barriers all the time.

Wow! I have been waiting for this for a long time. I hope they will release it in the summer.

so we can expext to have HTCSense on almost every Android Device? ^^

Was speaking to CM_arcee on twitter (developer for CM): "They're opening APIs to use Sense on devices that have it, they're not giving away Sense itself."
So that means Sense won't be coming to out non-HTC phone

n-zocker said:
so we can expext to have HTCSense on almost every Android Device? ^^
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Click to collapse
No, this is an API of sorts into the current sense environment. Developers will be able to write apps that use sense features to give the same look-and-feel as stock sense apps on sense based devices.

Why would developers limit themselves to HTC devices only in stead of the whole Android ecosystem?

it will help the development of apps for the flyer
let's hope

WOW, incredible news.....from locking their boot loaders to almost total openness, what a turn of events. Just shows what a nice strong community can accomplish. If there wasnt XDA nothing like this could have happened.
If the new HTC dual core doesn't take much longer to release, I ll be getting that definitely. I love HTC and after HD2, I still believe that the brand can reinvent themselves and lead the new smartphone industry, as they have done before.

This is a very clever move from HTC, and one which will certainly see them gain much love from the dev community.
I'm not sure it will be total access to HTC Sense, but certainly a way to make apps/widgets etc integrate with Sense a lot better. That can only be a good thing. HTC have obviously realised that the dev community came to originally, and wants to stay with them, and they are making it worth our while.

If it will run only on HTC devices, this is the right way!

Makes sense as not to open it up to other devices Sense is what makes it stand out from other devices.HTC sense is why im married to the brand so to speak.

Worst idea ever... HTC will give you access to propriatery HTC APIs and you will be able to code apps for their phones only... worst "open" idea ever.
I sincerely hope that devs ignore this HTC ploy to better their own UI.
This is going in the same direction as the Nvidia, Qualcomm, Samsung optimised games that only work on one of the CPU. WTF.. games on android should be optimised for all CPUs or should I say CPUs should be compatible with some standard... like OpenGL that they are using dooohhhhh... Stupid SoC makers.

mkrmec said:
Worst idea ever... HTC will give you access to propriatery HTC APIs and you will be able to code apps for their phones only... worst "open" idea ever.
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It gives devss the option to integrate with the Sense UI if they want to. It's up to the devs themselves whether they want to code exclusively for it. They can still code for all Android (as they could before) and then on top of that make it work nicely with Sense as well. This can only be a positive thing in my opinion.

As long as they doesn't release the entire sense source code it's not open. Period.

the first thing that came to my mind was Cookie's Home Tab from winmo. Can't wait!

Good for sense cuz they get developers but those apps made for sense will only work with sense and then more android fragmentation... the last thing we need
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Great news!
I am sorry I don't wish to be rude, but it is absolutely ridiculous that some people are trying to make this look like a bad thing. How some people can turn a news about Sense becoming MORE open, into an almost doomsday prophecy for Android is beyond me.
This is only making life easier for the devs working on Sense, which in terms means better and faster development of said UI... How can that be bad? It's not like it means that all deving for other devices is getting worse as a result..

Vanilla (stock) ICS vs. Sense 4.0 + ICS

In my recent mental debate over the EVO 4G LTE vs. the Nexus, I've pondered the differences between stock ICS (pure/vanilla/etc) and the ICS we will see on the One series by HTC, including our very own EVO sequel. From the few screenshots I've seen of the One X, it does not remotely resemble the ICS I've learned to know and love with the work our devs our doing to bring the latest and greatest to the OG. Examples include the lockscreen (the Sense ring appears to still be the default one - is there an option to go straight ICS for the lockscreen?), the dock (I'm sure I can switch the launcher to fix this issue...), the notifications pulldown (I've actually not seen the Sense one yet, but I've heard various things indicating it is different from the one I'm no accustomed to), etc. Heck, even the color of the battery meter is green instead of blue!
Does anyone know or at least have an idea if we can change some of those things without rooting our devices? Having a brand new device, I don't plan on needing to root (or at least install custom ROMs, that is) for a while. But I am already missing the slick new interface Google has provided. While many claim that Sense 4.0 is going for the minimalistic approach to the latest iteration of their infamous skin, why do I feel like they have completely altered a widely praised operating system that has barely rolled out? I'm a little saddened when I see the video of the EVO 4G LTE and feel like the look of everything is dated.
But then I look at the hardware, think about the devs who'll inevitably move to this phone, and that excites me about the possibilities. I guess I'm more curious than disappointed, but I was wondering others' feelings on this topic.

Long answer short, you'll get aosp, miui and sense on the HTC which is nice if you get bored and want something different.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

alaman68 said:
Long answer short, you'll get aosp, miui and sense on the HTC which is nice if you get bored and want something different.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
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Can you make your short answer slightly longer? Haha how would I get AOSP and MIUI on the EVO LTE? You mean one devs get to work on it? Or stock?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

PsiPhiDan said:
Can you make your short answer slightly longer? Haha how would I get AOSP and MIUI on the EVO LTE? You mean one devs get to work on it? Or stock?
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
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Click to collapse
Right. Not stock, would have to be rooted. My bad. The devs will be all over that phone anyway so it will be a blast
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

It's a *good* thing the phone comes with Sense, its one more option you have, and Sense does add some useful features. Custom rom's will offer all kinds of options including optimized and bloatware free versions of Sense.

alaman68 said:
Right. Not stock, would have to be rooted. My bad. The devs will be all over that phone anyway so it will be a blast
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely agree. I'm kind of thinking of galaxy nexus, cuz I'm not fond of sense. But, I'm sure in no time we'll be able to rip sense OFF that SOB and put AOKP or some other variant of vanilla ICS.
Then, if you wanna run sense for a few days, that option will still be there. It's win-win.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

If I'm running Sense 4.0, do you think I'll still be able to get the Quad ICS unlock screen, or something like that? I LOVE that lockscreen - way better than the silly ring that Sense creates. I don't understand why they didn't change that from 3.0 and 3.5 to something fresh. Oh, I would assume I have the "unlock with face" option too on this phone? It's been so long since I ran Sense, I forgot if these things are changeable or not!
My only concern with the custom ROMs is whether things will run okay, like camera and such. Also, if you are running AOSP, you'll miss out on the supposedly amazing camera suite that Sense 4.0 provides, right?
Tough choice!!!

Sense 4.0 + ICS ALL DAY!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

I went to tmobile today and toyed with the one s. I will say it isn't the ICS we know from the current development but it is beautiful and sleek. The soft keys are a bit cumbersome but I could get used to it. I am in no way drawn away from the evo lte and am more than anxious to own that device!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

imheroldman said:
I went to tmobile today and toyed with the one s. I will say it isn't the ICS we know from the current development but it is beautiful and sleek. The soft keys are a bit cumbersome but I could get used to it. I am in no way drawn away from the evo lte and am more than anxious to own that device!
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's awesome, especially considering the One S is inferior to our EVO we're getting...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

Well I will answer my own question at this moment, because I stopped into a T-Mobile and played with the One-S for about 10 minutes. It appears that ICS as we know it is VERY coated by Sense, but not necessarily in a bad way. It is still beautiful, just very different. I noticed that there were no quick settings in the notifications menu, which is one thing I was very curious about. But overall, really nice and REALLY amazing! Considering that is the crappy version of our EVOs, I cannot wait for this thing. The One-S screen was awesome, and I know it can't touch the screen (both size and resolution-wise) of our new toy coming out. But the UI was terrifically smooth, the feel was nice (physically), and Sense was overall not intrusive. It was just omnipresent. I'm not disappointed at all - and I know the devs will give us amazing options in terms of removing Sense, or tweaking Sense to give us cool features like quick settings and slide to change brightness.
I can't wait until the One-X is out so that I can play with that one, since it will give a much more accurate portrayal of our experience we can expect. May 18th can't get here soon enough!

I'm posting this everywhere . Its a post by toastcfh over in the oneX forums about how much HTC locked the phone down. Among many things, it is impossible to mount SD from recovery due to their locking, even with custom recovery and HTC dev unlock. If toast says it, it is so, I mean, the guy is an Android/Linux GENIUS. he's the one that had the Evo root method instructions posted before launch day.
Quote.....
no, USB mount does not work in recovery. It appears to be locked out in recovery mode. the workarounds to get it working are one of two things.
(1) fastboot boot awesomeRecovery.img (this works because fastboot then boots recovery on the boot/temporary partition. So the you're not actually in recovery mode
(2) Offmode (this works because again you're again not technically in recovery mode. It uses the recovery ramdisk, kernel, and binaries but its still not technically recovery.
On that note I've seen suggestions that it's possibly a recovery issue with cwm and twrp. Unfortunately it doesn't appear to be the case. If it were then in CWM u wouldn't have usb when u fastboot boot the recovery or in offmode (fair assumption since both these options use the same kernel, ramdisk and binaries as recovery?). Can it be fix? Not that i know of. It looks to me like a total radio or bootloader lockout from using USB in recovery. Which means on a radio or bootloader level USB is disabled in recovery mode.
On that note I think we should raise the point to HTC that this locking down of the device does not suite our needs.Key points of fail would be as follows.
(1) Can NOT flash the boot partition from recovery. I've personally contacted HTC on this numerous times and they seem to just not care. Responding with "It's a security issue" and so forth. I would love to know how this is a security issue of any sort. Every other Android device has this ability except HTC devices since they started the HTC unlock ordeal. It's utter fail IMHO and HTC should listen to our needs .
(2) Can NOT flash recovery or boot partitions from system. This issue is NOT a deal breaker and isn't so bad when it comes down to the nitty gritty. But since the issue above exists, flashing with applications like htc dumlock and such were our only options. These work around apps cant be used to flash now because of the lockpout from system and it wouldn't be such an issue if HTC didnt lock us out in recovery from flashing boot.
(3) Can NOT flash P*IMG.zips in hboot/bootloader anymore. For the unlocked device running a custom firmware this is a must. Specially when radio updates and such are needed from the OEM. We seen a big use of this on the Sensation when HTC updated the device from Gingerbread to Ice Cream Sandwich. The update required new hboots, radios, and partitioning to actually use. So in that instead of having to flash a RUU Which didn't exist the only choice was to flash a custom P*IMG.zip that included all the radios and images need to run the builds. At this point we can't update those image/partitions without flashing an RUU. This makes no since and doesn't seem to do anything but make things more difficult on the unlocker to customize and modify their device.
(4) If all the conditions above HAVE to exist. Then why not give us documentation or utilities to flash fimware.zips from recovery like HTC does? When HTC was the proud Nexus device there was full support and documentation available on how to flash firmware on their devices. This made anyone choosing an HTC device blessed with knowing that their device was not only open and unlocked, but when flashing firmware that it was being flashed correctly to Google and HTC's standards. This code has now been moved out of recovery since right before the move to edify scripting and moved to vendor/htc/ (not arguing this choice as thats where it belongs from a maintaining point of view). But the problem is that vendor/htc is proprietary now. Which means Documentation and support for flashing firmware correctly is not available and left to developers of recoveries for the community to figure out. One would think if HTC was standing behind us that they would step up and give us a PROPER/OPEN/REAL unlock, or if they cant for the lame excuse of security concerns, then give us the documentation and utilities to flash the boot and firmware partitions properly. I mean really... what is there to lose there?
(5) WHAT WAS THE POINT OF HTC UNLOCK? I was to reach out and except us as a community. It was to keep us from having to exploit their firmware and look for holes to gain control of a device we rightfully own. WHAT DID HTC UNLOCK DO? It unlocked the devices at first and with each new revision of the unlock it gets more locked down and harder for us to use it as intended. WHAT DOES THAT LEAD TO? It leads to us hoping someone will take the time out of their life and exploit HTC's firmware so we can have access and control of our devices. I mean, it's bad when u have people poking a device with a paperclip to get a device unlocked to avoid a official unlock.
Bottom line; I'm personally fed up with HTC's unlock. It's absolute crap! It does not serve the purpose it was intended and only makes things harder then they were before. As a devoted HTC customer it has me questioning if my next device will be an HTC. With all the other options that would allow me to spend less time trying to gain proper access to my device and more time actually having fun with it, why choose HTC? Everyone else is shying away for these same issues. Everyone with an HTC unlocked device waits for someone to exploit HTC's firmware and give them a proper unlock. Why not just choose a device without the locked down/unlock instead? IDK but HTC needs to step up and listen to us. Every HTC forum with an HTC Unlock is screaming for these issues to be fixed.
My call to HTC is to fix these issue and/or give us proper documentation on flashing firmware to our devices via custom recoveries. The boot flashing lockout is dumb, pointless, and in NO WAY a security threat AT ALL and is nothing more then a CRAP RESPONSE to something that they sould be working to correct, instead of ignoring. In the end its hurting HTC's relations with developers and is ultimately doing the opposite of what it's original intent.
HTC, PLEASE READ AND LISTEN!!!11ONEone
To everyone else, SPREAD THE WORD!!!ONEone
End quote.........
There has to be a way to petition HTC. Reading this is making me lean galaxy Nexus, ...and I F$%kin HATE Samsung.
Edit: this post is from the One X forum TWRP topic.
Sent from my PC36100 using xda premium

No way I'm buying a Samsung phone.
I'll trust that someone will figure out how to get around the issue at some point. I love how the phone is stock anyway.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA

PsiPhiDan said:
In my recent mental debate over the EVO 4G LTE vs. the Nexus, I've pondered the differences between stock ICS (pure/vanilla/etc) and the ICS we will see on the One series by HTC, including our very own EVO sequel. From the few screenshots I've seen of the One X, it does not remotely resemble the ICS I've learned to know and love with the work our devs our doing to bring the latest and greatest to the OG. Examples include the lockscreen (the Sense ring appears to still be the default one - is there an option to go straight ICS for the lockscreen?), the dock (I'm sure I can switch the launcher to fix this issue...), the notifications pulldown (I've actually not seen the Sense one yet, but I've heard various things indicating it is different from the one I'm no accustomed to), etc. Heck, even the color of the battery meter is green instead of blue!
Does anyone know or at least have an idea if we can change some of those things without rooting our devices? Having a brand new device, I don't plan on needing to root (or at least install custom ROMs, that is) for a while. But I am already missing the slick new interface Google has provided. While many claim that Sense 4.0 is going for the minimalistic approach to the latest iteration of their infamous skin, why do I feel like they have completely altered a widely praised operating system that has barely rolled out? I'm a little saddened when I see the video of the EVO 4G LTE and feel like the look of everything is dated.
But then I look at the hardware, think about the devs who'll inevitably move to this phone, and that excites me about the possibilities. I guess I'm more curious than disappointed, but I was wondering others' feelings on this topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There IS PLENTY of apps on the play store that offer home screen and lock screen customization, such as launcherpro, milocker, gosms, as far as changing the status bar and battery bar i'm not so sure, i haven't been on a phone with s-on in a while and can't tell you what rootless tweaks would work

No Custom ROMs on WP8 Devices

Hi I wanted to buy a wp8 device but after reading this article I gave up buying a wp8 device. Because no custom roms is a deal-breaker for me. So looks like its not possible to unlock wp8 devices for now but I don't know is it gonna be in the future. I'm asking because I don't know how unlocking process works because I never used a wp device. I know how android system works but I have no idea about wp devices. So if you guys can explain if it can be done in the future or why we will never be able to unlock wp8 devices. :good:
Edit: Its no longer a deal-breaker for me I thought unlock was important as much as jailbreak on iphone and root on android. But thanks for helping me realise wp devices do not need unlock
Edit2: I bought a lumia 920. You guys were right wp is awesome. Only things I am missing from android is file explorer, rotation lock and notifications.

Yes you definitely dont know much about WP. You never used one, but you know that custom ROMs are dealbreaker for you. Nice.
Just to let you know, custom roms are not important at all in WP. They dont bring much improvement, far less than in android.

martan1981 said:
Yes you definitely dont know much about WP. You never used one, but you know that custom ROMs are dealbreaker for you. Nice.
Just to let you know, custom roms are not important at all in WP. They dont bring much improvement, far less than in android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can be right, custom roms means a lot on android and jailbreak means a lot for iphone. So I thought unlock is important like jailbreak/root. But if not, I'm definitely gonna buy a wp8 Thanks for the info about roms. I want to ask, can we install local apps like we can do at android without unlocking?

Windows Phones do not need custom ROMs, because all the mess that's happening on base ROMs for android is not present, which is why custom ROMs exist for android in the first place, and not because of customization or whatever else then less enlighten users use ROMs for.

mcosmin222 said:
Windows Phones do not need custom ROMs, because all the mess that's happening on base ROMs for android is not present, which is why custom ROMs exist for android in the first place
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Er, custom ROMs aren't "needed" anywhere.* They exist because developers have an itch for some feature or bugfix not available in stock - in other words, they have something that improves over stock in some way. Perhaps you should read the feature lists of some WP custom ROMs.
No possible improvements over stock is not a good thing no matter how you spin it. That said, I think the OP is overreacting calling it a "deal-breaker". Well, it depends on what you're looking for in "jailbreaking". This jailbreak feature, for one, won't be available.
*Edit: You know this because the users of custom ROMs are always in the vast minority.

Something that needs improvement is messed up in my books sooo....
Yeh the Op is kinda exaggerating with the deal-breaker though.

mcosmin222 said:
Something that needs improvement is messed up in my books sooo....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I've just pointed out, improvement is not needed. On the other hand, is improvement improvement? Why, yes.

thebobp said:
Er, custom ROMs aren't "needed" anywhere.* They exist because developers have an itch for some feature or bugfix not available in stock - in other words, they have something that improves over stock in some way. Perhaps you should read the feature lists of some WP custom ROMs.
No possible improvements over stock is not a good thing no matter how you spin it. That said, I think the OP is overreacting calling it a "deal-breaker". Well, it depends on what you're looking for in "jailbreaking". This jailbreak feature, for one, won't be available.
*Edit: You know this because the users of custom ROMs are always in the vast minority.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bite your tongue, sir: custom roms are practically necessary for android. Stock ROMs have faulty GPS drivers, crapware, bloatware, SPYWARE even. I have a friend who bought a low end android phone from sprint. Two mistakes: being on sprint and going low end on android. It's getting better, but android is a huge resource hog, and having all the carrier crap on there makes it worse. My friend's phone is quite literally unusable; it locks up very often. Even after I hard reset it for him. On android, stock is [probably] ALWAYS bad.
WP8 however.... I have a custom ROM for my WP7 device, but everything I've done with the custom ROM is natively supported in WP8. So I guess I could live with a stock WP8 ROM. The only thing I'd be missing out on is free tethering.
Carriers, if you charge for tethering... **** you.

^ in your opinion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

link68759 said:
Bite your tongue, sir: custom roms are practically necessary for android. Stock ROMs have faulty GPS drivers, crapware, bloatware, SPYWARE even. I have a friend who bought a low end android phone from sprint. Two mistakes: being on sprint and going low end on android. It's getting better, but android is a huge resource hog, and having all the carrier crap on there makes it worse. My friend's phone is quite literally unusable; it locks up very often. Even after I hard reset it for him. On android, stock is [probably] ALWAYS bad.
WP8 however.... I have a custom ROM for my WP7 device, but everything I've done with the custom ROM is natively supported in WP8. So I guess I could live with a stock WP8 ROM. The only thing I'd be missing out on is free tethering.
Carriers, if you charge for tethering... **** you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Free tethering? My experience tells me that only the Dell Venue Pro is incapable of wi-fi tethering because of the chipset. The carriers have disabled the feature but a lot of phones can be interop unlocked and have the feature enabled. Heck, the Quantum requires little effort since it has an onboard reg edit tool. Google be thy friend.

Amazing! (And incredibly stupid!)
This will eventually flood this forum with unhappy users, wishing to mod their devices...after having seen their cool AOS counter parts.

Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")

Hacking is by definition something that should be impossible.
Hacking is based on using some unpredicted exploit to workaround security.
If today we knew that Custom Roms would be going to be possible on WP8 then Microsoft could fix the exploit.
Don't blame Microsoft for this of course, you know most (I did not say every) people wants to unlock their phone to sideload pirated apps.
That's simply the truth. This is what happens all around me on iPhone and Android ecosystem.
Now the real question is : how much interesting (or clever) is speaking about the existence of exploits on something you don't even own/know ?
Articles like the linked one looks nothing more than a big flame to me, and this topic is no different.
P.S. It is really funny to find out some users are particularly attracted by this kind of topic, isn't it?

You realize that the place you're posting to caters to the small percentage of people who want / use any flexibility afforded them, right?
The elegance of a closed system (relatively speaking) is the stability you can accomplish. This is the apple model to a tee, and for most people it's fine.
BUT, flexibility is where windows the traditional OS, Android, and Linux shine. There are always optimizations that can be done, always tweaks, custom apps galore. Android ROMs have spoiled us, masses be dammed.
Sent from my LT30p using Tapatalk 2

dragonide said:
Hacking is by definition something that should be impossible.
Hacking is based on using some unpredicted exploit to workaround security.
If today we knew that Custom Roms would be going to be possible on WP8 then Microsoft could fix the exploit.
Don't blame Microsoft for this of course, you know most (I did not say every) people wants to unlock their phone to sideload pirated apps.
That's simply the truth. This is what happens all around me on iPhone and Android ecosystem.
Now the real question is : how much interesting (or clever) is speaking about the existence of exploits on something you don't even own/know ?
Articles like the linked one looks nothing more than a big flame to me, and this topic is no different.
P.S. It is really funny to find out some users are particularly attracted by this kind of topic, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has began.

I actually am for Custom ROMs. Sorry, but Devs sometimes just do a better job at things. A Interop Unlocking and Custom ROMs made my Trophy a heck of a lot more enjoyable to use.
And I disagree with all the lock downs MS has in place. Email, messaging clients, browsers, keyboards. We are all stuck with one version. No chance to use versions a Dev could provide that would give us more options and features. Sometimes, Devs just do things better. The MS locked apps I listed, among others, can all be improved upon. Rather than waiting or hoping MS does more to improve them, itd be a lot nicer to have options of 3rd party devs.

lugi93 said:
Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So WP8 has a file explorer?

lugi93 said:
Nothing to mod it works out of the box. I dont even see a point in current custom roms wp7.5..just few added apps & unlocked for piracy (ok "homebrew")
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that I have WP8 I no longer have custom ROMs, and here's a list of things I'm missing.
-Being able to back up and restore isolated storage (aka game saves and apps with braindamaged devs who don't export to skydrive)
-Setting goddamn custom notification sounds.
-Enabling internet sharing on AT&T
-Bluetooth file transfer for unsupported files
-USB Video out
And the biggest thing was updates to the latest build (7.8), because you either have to wait years to get the stupid thing, or you just never get it. WP8 seems to have solved that issue, but it's a big thing for 7.x
There is significantly more homebrew than apps that can be pirated too... So no, WP8 is not perfect out of the box yet.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro

IMHO there is stil need for custom roms with WP8. This system for many might need to be changed. For example (I had Lumia 920 but beeing annoyed I've sold it) People Hub. I had Facebook account and LinkedIIn configured and connected with Microsoft Account. Hopefully People Hub allows me to display only those people from my Outlook Account with photos of them from LinkedIn or Facebook. That's good. Where is the problem - mail app which seems not to use People Hub filtering and after I've started writing somebody's email it was trying to suggest me all of the people from my linkedin and facebook. Facebook is a toy for me, email is a tool for work. I dont's wanna havve facebook contacts in my email. What's more - I don't wan't to see non skype contacts on my skype list. How to solve it ? Only custom rom may help with modified People Hub service.

dansus72 said:
So WP8 has a file explorer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you're not being sarcastic, and really asking- i'm taking no offense of malice either way, just answering
no, there is no file explorer. this is hotly debated over and over again as to wether its a needed feature or just a 'gimmie' app on other platforms. some even argue that a file explorer on wp8 makes it insecure. whatever.
i'm seeing fewer and fewer posts here on xda pertaining to wp. even the extremely optimistic wpcentral forum is turning a little more 'real' since MWC turned into a nokia-only festival for wp.
anyway, i'm getting sidetracked. hope i answered your question nicely