Related
I was looking for a couple of threads that I had recently bookmarked to go back to later on only to find that they weren't bookmarked anymore. I spent almost an hour searching for them only to find the one specific thread in the trash. No warning or reason was given. Why was this done? I can understand if it's a thread with only a single post or perhaps even one that has become outdated (like a Cupcake release date thread) but why a thread that has 4 pages of information for a topic that doesn't have any reference for it already? Isn't this going to just create more new threads? More e-mails? More questions? Isn't this defeating the purpose of posting a new thread about a topic that hasn't been posted or stickied, if it is just going to be deleted?
If you look in the trash you will find SEVERAL Dream threads. In fact... just on the first page HALF (TEN out of TWENTY) are from the Dream thread! So just to clearify... of the dozens of different threads for different phones half of all trash is for the G1??? Isn't the trash supposed to be for SPAM?
How are these spam (just from the first page)???
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525564
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=524956
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=519591
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=525034
There are a few more of course but I can understand because most of the questions have been answerered and it would be faster and easier if these people used the search feature. But some haven't been. (example)
Instead of deleting the threads... merge them. But of course you get stuck with a 500+ page thread that MOST people will not read all the way through to see if the question they are about to ask has been asked/answered already. Which is of course why they post a new thread but guess what? It gets deleted and so another thread gets posted. It's never ending and I realize that this must be hard work for the mods.
So what to do?
I propose that instead of deleting these threads without reason or warning, to PM the original poster of the thread to ask of the significance of it and to provide a legitimate reason and purpose for it. Otherwise give warning or notice of the possible deletion. Of course this does not exempt the threads that are posting warez, copyright infringements and other obvious violations of memberships.
This is only my opinion and I hope that I have made an interesting point or two about this matter.
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
JanetPanic said:
Look at the Sticky "Tough Love Moderation Alert". Basically the admins will lock/delete threads they think duplicate or off topic. I can't say as I agree with their method (no explanation) but there is a need to keep the threads under control. The development forum is the worst of the problem area but all the Dream forums have some abusers.
On the other hand it is leading to silly thread titles "[ONLY] something [ONLY]" (which is silly since people who would have posted off topic before still will) and confusion as well as "What happened to my last post" threads. Time will tell if their methods achieve their goal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... okay. I agree that some of the most annoying problems with the dream thread is that people do post in the ROM Development thread. But is deleting so much easier then moving to the "Dream" thread? If so, does it out weight the inconvenience of the possiblity of the same question being reposted because it was unable to be found by the search feature?
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows. Is it really a bother that a thread is over a month old and hasn't had any recent posts? Does it really bother anyone? Of course not! They just ignore it, right? So why go through all the trouble to delete it? Some of the threads in the trash are still useful and there is absolutely no harm in keeping it in the proper catagories (ie Dream, Applications, Themes, etc).
Any mod that simply deletes a useful and recently commented thread because it was mistakenly posted under the wrong catgory instead of simply moving it, is just lazy in my own personal opinion and is doing more harm then good. Again... just my opinion.
Binary100100 said:
Say this post gets deleted... and it likely will be... and someone else notices the same issue... and they search to see if this has been posted. Will they find it? No. Because hardly anyone looks in the trash. So what do they do? They post it as a new thread. So what happens? A mod goes in and deletes that post. And it repeats over and over again until the mods stop deleting the posts. Then what? Nothing. The post stays and maybe even grows.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That doesn't indicate that what the mods are doing is necessarily wrong, it means that new members continue to disregard the rules (posting already answered questions, posting in wrong forum, etc).
That said, I think the mods need to reevaluate how and when they do thread merges. The form of discussion in forums like these tend to be "conversation" centric. However, the threads are presented in a flat format (by default). That means that merging two threads of identical or similar topics will cause their conversations to intermix, with disastrous results. People already have piss-poor reading skills as it is.
What do you expect the moderators to do? We didn't give them a choice. The Dream forums are out of control and it would take the 3 or 4 moderators for these forums 8 hours a day not being paid to police it. You want someone to blame? Blame your fellow XDA members because there are only 2 solutions for this problem:
Get more moderators to baby sit the forums or increase the quality of posting within the Dream forums. The later is what we need here and what the moderators are hoping for.
Edit: And honestly, I think this is the best method. Do we have the potential for losing good information? Yes. This is how you teach the multitudes of Dream posters that there are consequences for being ignorant. Being stupid is not an excuse.
It is pretty annoying how the Dream thread has exploded and that the same questions just keep on cropping up. When I reply I do try to either re-direct them to my signature (which has the basic links to Dude's ROM, SPL, Apps2SD, Radio etc), teach them how to search with the actual result or just point them to the right direction.
However with 500+ pages or whatever, it can become a chore for newbies to read though, even if 70% of the info is in the first page.
I did recommend to the mods that the Dream section needs cleaning up, with a dedicated sub forum purely for the established (or popular) cooked ROMs. So underneath the Dream Dev sub-forum is another just for JF, Dude, Cyanogen, Haykuro etc. That should remove quite a lot of traffic and usual questions then from what is supposed to be a general development thread for other matters.
Then I would suggest a much more organised and up to date FAQ in such a sub-forum which covers all of the same questions that get asked daily. Any such questions that get asked in any of the ROM forums would then be re-directed to the FAQ.
Most of us I'm sure have come from large forums (lik-sang, avsfoums, etc) and know how to search, read etc but many newer members don't, be it due to lack of effort etc. However I'm sure there are many genuine new members who are willing to learn that only need a nudge in the right direction. Simply blocking them off by trashing, linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
I would put myself forward to help moderate the Dream section but I know that zero mod positions are available at the moment, but I do agree with the OP that trashing isn't always the solution.
NeoBlade said:
linking them only to the search page etc isn't helpful and won't generate a positive community.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The main problem is that for the veterans who have been here since Sept/Oct 2008, everything more or less makes sense because they have seen it evolve to its current state. It's a lot like a guy who lives in a very very messy room who can still find the book buried under a pile of empty ramen cups and dirty laundry. Thus its easy to say "use the search!" in response to any newbie query. That said, from the first-timer newbie perspective, there are a few problems: 1) A lot of information crammed into two poorly organized subforums. 2) A lot of information is outdated and is superseded or contradicts newer information. 3) Some of the sticky threads have very poorly written or maintained first posts.
Sticky threads are not a very good way to store information for general consumption, unless the original poster is a very good communicator and also vigilantly updates the first post with concise information from the entire thread, no matter how long it is. Of the former sticky posts, few actually meet that standard. The ideal format for information conveyance is wiki, but then there is the disconnection between the wiki and active development. In other words, people don't like to move back and forth between the wiki and the forum.
I know what you mean jashu, I love my "organised mess" at home ^_^
It does take effort alright in keeping threads on topic and up to date, I remember when administrating the TokyoToys forum (I since had to close it, joint decision by myself and the owner) and also organising events for fans and people alike to meet up and have fun, took effort and more often enough without any recognition as well which can get discouraging.
Certainly if the OP kept his or her first post updated often enough with information it will keep questions down to a minimum however I still approve of a well made FAQ which is stickied. It then becomes a focal point as any FAQ should. I'm actually in the middle of writing one myself and once its done and the people concerned are happy with it, I would be happy to post it here too.
Ideally a wiki would be best because its user editable however I had a look at the XDA wiki and it does need a bit of TLC.
I will qualify my statement in that I come from the standpoint as an administrator in a prominent Linux forum that gets more posts in an hour in than the Dream forums get in a day. I firmly believe that draconian administration is not the answer and makes the forum far less pleasant to use. I think of administration as keeping things civil and posts in the right forum more than controlling creation of threads. Forcing the organization into a few mammoth threads is not any better than letting users create new threads without rules.
The developers forum is a bit of a mess and completely left to its own it would be worse than it is. The Development forum is not really about development anymore though. It more of a "custom ROM" forum. It is rare that I see an actual post on development on the android platform. Since the primary topic on the forum is custom ROMs the support questions for said ROMs get put in the development forum and generates a mess. Creating a ROM forum would just shift the mess, so I am not sure that would be better.
I think eventually the newbies who are flooding the forum with threads that could be answered by searching will either go away or learn to search. The current choice of administration is not educating the newbies though, it is just forcing them to learn. Regardless of how any of us users feel about the subject though the administrators have made their choice on how to deal with the Dream sub-forums. We are just along for the ride.
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change. Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
JanetPanic said:
The thought that scares me more than any other is that the flood of newbies up to this stage could be just the tip of the iceburg. XDA-Dev before the last year or so was a forum for a fairly small group of people who generally know how to deal with their own problems. Lately the number of users with limited technical ability and desire have been increasing. This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
There's always methods in dealing with issues and I do agree that its more of a ROM section than Development thesedays... Hence in my opinion it would be better off having a ROM section for such people to post on, which will clear up for people actually developling or helping to improve the android platform - Most notibly the Bluetooth OBEX support.
This isn't the fastest forum I've seen or been involved in in terms of volumes of posts, however it is getting to the point where re-structuring and possibly more moderators are needed to help ease the burden. When a large number of people register and start being active, it is often the best time to set an example and indeed set and establish a community where people help people - Be it to simple things as pointing them to the right direction to much more techinical issues.
Without the ethos to help each other, where would open source be?
Granted I know nothing about Linux myself and couldn't code to save my life but I do enjoy the technical discussions that take place. A lot of this is lost with the usual questions that get asked, hence the need for a more up to date FAQ. Tough love is needed but I believe with the right organisation, it shouldn't have to be the only answer.
uberingram said:
This and the fact that it's brand spanking new. Give it time and the kids will find something new to play with and move on while the people that give a rats arse (us) will be left behind. I've seen it time and time again on car forums. This isn't any different. The first 6 months is bliss. The following 1-2 years is absolute hell. Then comes the volume drop off and the true development. I've all for tough love but it's not like the tide is ever going to stop. We are just going to have to wait it out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the G1 is the new sidekick. and the sidekick was such a fad and trend for kids to use as a phone. the hip hop and celebrity community did well in terms of marketing the sidekick to the mainstream public as being a "your not cool if you don't have one of these" items. also the emo/scene kids are all about what the "in" things and fads are, so that highly popularized the sidekick as well.
and now since the G1 came out, most of the people that got a sidekick for those particular reasons mentioned above, are now "upgrading" to the next newer cooler big thing.... the G1.
young people love to follow trends, fads, and what's cool at the moment.
right now, the G1 is just that.
it's a double edge for Android and the G1. the popularity is one of the key things needed to make Android and the G1 a success. but with popularity comes a lot riff raff and criticism that is not welcomed so well. but i digress lol
i just hope the sidekick comes out with a touchscreen version or something, so the kids have something new shiny to play with haha
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK? I moved to the G1 after my Nokia N95. Got impatient waiting for the N97 so made the jump and thanks to the incomplete stock OS, I was tempted to move back to my N95 until JF released his research, Haykuro and Dude. Now it feels more complete with only a few things missing.
Back on topic though, the place isn't as bad as it could be but since this is more a development forum to begin with and not a social based one, just a few tweaks here and there would help newbies a little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ohhh i have an idea...
like when you sign up you pick the phone and platform you use then instantly redirects the new member to a FAQ or pertinent threads associated to their liking of phone and platform and at the same time directly email them a link to those FAQ and whatnot.
NeoBlade said:
Not owned a sidekick before but then I presume its more popular in the USA than it is in the UK?.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's just how mrcrs described it. The Sidekick became quite the fashion accessory model when celebrities started picking them up. They are pictured all over the tabloids and mentioned a lot of times in up-start musician's songs. I doubt very much that it would have panned out this way if T-Mobile released the SideKick 3G before the G1 but then again, T-Mobile needed a victory and a halo phone really fast.
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
NeoBlade said:
That would take a fair amount of modification to the forum files to do (I've done my fair share of phpBB, phpBB Plus, IPB etc) and also is on the pretence that every single mobile has a suitable FAQ to begin with.
And easier way and modification to the forum could be to send a general stock welcoming PM along with a reminder to search and any additional helpful links within. That is, if XDA wants to go down that route.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
whenever i join forums and in my inbox i get a message automatically, which is usually from the forum itself, i usually disregard it because all it is a "welcome to xyz forums... yada yada yada... enjoy your time here"
i usually don't open and read it, delete it then... go wreck havoc on finding out the information i want to know or read about. but that's just me
JanetPanic said:
This is partly due to the ease of having the Android platform, partly due to the fact that smart phones in general (including iPhone) are becoming much more mainstream. If android truly takes off on HTC phones then either the users will have to be forceful to new users to get them into line fast or the philosophy of the XDA-dev forums itself will need to change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
Linux forums have a reputation for rude users, this is largely due to the veterans being unforgiving to repeated questions. Harsh but it does work over time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
jashsu said:
To get a glimpse of where Dream/Magic forum is headed, just look at the xda Winmo forums. "Development" in this case basically just means rom customization. It's already pretty much at that state here too. Of course if Android fulfills its promise of being a mainstream smartphone OS, there will be many more newbies here than there ever were on the Winmo forums (you don't see many kids rocking Touch Diamonds).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been here since 2005 with the Blue Angel (then the Wizard, Jam, Magician, and the Artemis). Eventually XDA started dedicating a subforum to ROMs with the general development thread up top for WinMo development. The Dream right now just has the one combined forum. Another difference is that the ROM threads in Dream seem to grow faster than I remember on the WinMo threads. I am not sure what the difference is, maybe that usually there are a couple debug threads that die out which in the Dream forum is discouraged. Regardless the rapid posting makes it harder to keep up with more than one ROM.
jashsu said:
IMO there's nothing wrong with being a bit curt, especially in the "development" forum. This isn't an interactive tutorial, a hand-holding journey. Too many people seem to get the idea that the unsupported hacks enabled by rooting can be generalized and simplified for mass-market consumption. That kind of thinking is faulty and the resulting bad publicity may jeopardize the Android hacking community on the whole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, well put.
jashsu said:
The problem is that in most cases, being rude only keeps away users who had initial reservations and cautions to rooting-- precisely the kind of user who actually might take the time to indepedently and/or responsibly learn how to do things properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point as well.
Okay, before everyone starts flaming...I know that there are probably hundreds of thread in the Dream General section suggesting a support section or a "Support thread" but they have been incredibly unsuccessful and members are constantly reporting and starting new threads on their problems in Dream Android Development and in General. Isn't the whole point of GENERAL suppose to be GENERAL? And not a support area?
This is why I'm proposing that we create an entire new area for people to get help and for people to post their problems and give solutions. If you take a look at the amount of locked threads in development and the amount of threads in Dream General pertaining to the numerous amount of problems that people are having, you will understand. I understand that there is in fact a brick thread inside Dream Development, but people don't care. They just post it in random places and mods have to constantly remind people to post in the right place and to SEARCH! With this proposal, I believe that if a support section is created, people will be more likely to search in THERE because it's a special place set aside for just that, SUPPORT.
Mods please take this into consideration and don't lock this thread. How many of you think that we should have a support section and not clutter Dream General and Dream Development with hundreds of two post threads talking about bricks and eventually them getting locked or moved to the trash within seconds.
Thanks for reading this. Comment in the posts below
Thanks to Milestone for a list of good reasons why we should have a support section! thanks milestone!
milestone.it said:
i feel that a support section would be useful for many simple reasons
1) it would aid in the moderation task - most people can read the word "support" and realize to post in there. if they can't then don't get a g1!
2) it would allow for a few people who are interested in helping out other newbie users to correct their problems without everyone having to read them if they don't want to.
3) there can be a place to move wrongly posted requests to.
4) everyone knows where to post them to in the first place!
that was my £0.02p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everyone here with a few exceptions i'm sure are using a rooted phone. If you noticed, each thread that contains a ROM will also provide support for that ROM. Most of the problems are specific to each rom. So there would need to be a support thread for each ROM released in a seperate forum section, which already exists in the developer section. Also, each rom released is pretty much a beta and will always remain a beta because there is no standards to which these roms are created and no "end point" to the development, its always on going. And unique bugs and problems will always occure with each Rom. So it is a continual part of development to post, read about and repair those bugs and problems to make each Rom better. I don't think a support section needs to be created. I just think people need to be less lazy and use the search tools. Even bricked phones are being bricked by a specific rom...or SPL or what have u and again should fall under development since most bricked phones was because of a bad SPL or bug in a ROM . And if it is not specific to anything that has been created or released here...Tmobile DOES have their own support forums =)
Good point, but we're not T-Mobile and T-Mobile doesn't JUST carry the G1 now do they?
alritewhadeva said:
Good point, but we're not T-Mobile and T-Mobile doesn't JUST carry the G1 now do they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've a good point as well =). ...Yah, T-mobile mentioned something about them carrying the ION soon....so I guess "T-Mobile" can be replaced with "Your phone's manufacturer and/or carrier" hehehe
Did XDA not create forums for the Magic and the Ion and the Sapphire? Most of this development is geared towards the G1 for the most part...which pretty much is T-Mobile....Now if they just made a Forum for "ANDROID DEVELOPMENT" that encomposses all the android phones...that may work out better. But the support would still end up in the specific rom forums... I dunno...to many roms and too many phones and too many carriers lol getting had to keep up
alritewhadeva said:
Good point, but we're not T-Mobile and T-Mobile doesn't JUST carry the G1 now do they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, and T-Mobile won't be able to support the myriad of problems that come with rooted phones and custom ROMs anyway.
The sad fact (and why this idea has never really taken off) is that no matter what you do; stickies/wikis/locked threads/temp bans etc... there is always going to be a host of fng's that don't know any better and will continue to post out of context and out of laziness.
Hell, there's a couple people that straight up know better and will still post in the wrong section because "nobody's gonna be able to help me in the Dream forum, so I'm posting here anyway."
It would seem you can't change human nature, so you're forced to moderate. Or so I've decided.
i feel that a support section would be useful for many simple reasons
1) it would aid in the moderation task - most people can read the word "support" and realise to post in there. if they can't then don't get a g1!
2) it would allow for a few people who are interested in helping out other newbie users to correct their problems without everyone having to read them if they don't want to.
3) there can be a place to move wrongly posted requests to.
4) everyone knows where to post them to in the first place!
that was my £0.02p
tep065 said:
You've a good point as well =). ...Yah, T-mobile mentioned something about them carrying the ION soon....so I guess "T-Mobile" can be replaced with "Your phone's manufacturer and/or carrier" hehehe
Did XDA not create forums for the Magic and the Ion and the Sapphire? Most of this development is geared towards the G1 for the most part...which pretty much is T-Mobile....Now if they just made a Forum for "ANDROID DEVELOPMENT" that encomposses all the android phones...that may work out better. But the support would still end up in the specific rom forums... I dunno...to many roms and too many phones and too many carriers lol getting had to keep up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah there's a forum for the Magic/Sapphire but the ION has not really been officially launched, but when it does I'm sure XDA will create another forum for it. I still think a support section would be a good idea. Most other forums have something like that, however this one does not. Just my opinion
milestone.it said:
i feel that a support section would be useful for many simple reasons
1) it would aid in the moderation task - most people can read the word "support" and realise to post in there. if they can't then don't get a g1!
2) it would allow for a few people who are interested in helping out other newbie users to correct their problems without everyone having to read them if they don't want to.
3) there can be a place to move wrongly posted requests to.
4) everyone knows where to post them to in the first place!
that was my £0.02p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good list. Updated OP
So, I've been thinking about this a bit more... and drinking bombay/tonic and shots of patron, so take it with a grain of salt...hehe
Anyway, I actually think it could be useful at this point. Seeing all the troubleshooting threads in this forum, it could be useful to seperate truly general things with support related things.
The way I see it, at this moment:
Dream (26 Viewing)
Dream android development (237 Viewing)
Dream accessories (2 Viewing)
Dream themes and wallpapers (25 Viewing)
Dream applications and games (23 Viewing)
Obviously, development gets all the attention.
That's the main reason so many people go straight there to get a question answered.
However; a support thread probably wouldn't see any less visitors than the other 4 threads and certainly more than the accessories thread. I dare say, accessories could be merged with general and be replaced with support.
It wouldn't hurt to have a handful of stickies of current support issues and an entire thread dedicated to it. Maybe having a thread that floated to the top in development called support that tried to redirect people to a support forum might work well.
Anyway, just a thought. Back to the tequila...
milestone.it said:
i feel that a support section would be useful for many simple reasons
1) it would aid in the moderation task - most people can read the word "support" and realise to post in there. if they can't then don't get a g1!
2) it would allow for a few people who are interested in helping out other newbie users to correct their problems without everyone having to read them if they don't want to.
3) there can be a place to move wrongly posted requests to.
4) everyone knows where to post them to in the first place!
that was my £0.02p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed =] I'm thankful for everyone commenting in this thread and keeping it alive. Come on guys, don't PRETEND you DON'T want a suppport section. Aren't all of you tired of the cluttered threads and the people telling you to sift through 300 page threads for answers? With this support section, finding an answer should be a breeze. I'm proposing we have sepeerate threads in the section for different ROMs and to post known problems and known solutions in the OPs. Let your opinions be heard! Going to go ahead and bump this up there. Come on! Comment! and vote in the poll
There definitely needs to be at least a 20 post limit before making a new topic in the dev forum. I have seen many useless threads about issues that dont really exist and questions that should be in the Q&A section by people with 1-3 posts. I doubt anyone below 20 posts is going to contribute anything useful(hell i say 100, but im being nice) to the dev section, and even if they do, who is going to trust flashing something from a new user? Posting in currently open threads should not be limited, just creating new topics. Any opposed?
I think the developer section should be read only unless you're approved.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
Coming from a guy with less than 20 posts I agree. I don't post a lot as you can tell but when I want to look to see if there is anything new out on the development side I get tired of seeing useless post that should be here or in Q&A. I think a post requirement would lower the useless threads
Sent via the Sprint HTC EVO
same here.
deleted because I didn't read the title properly.
I agree
10 char
Just look at how better organized the dev section is for the nexus. Im not saying they shouldnt be able to post at all, just not create new topics.
Nexus dev forum: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=559
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones. I think that topic starters in the development forum should be able to lock out non-developers from commenting if they want also. Its very frustrating to me (not a developer) when I am trying to read a development thread and its full of people making dumb comments or 300 posts thanking the developer while I'm trying to read the thread for something useful.
k2snowboards88 said:
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Valid point...
Sent via the Sprint HTC EVO
k2snowboards88 said:
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones. I think that topic starters in the development forum should be able to lock out non-developers from commenting if they want also. Its very frustrating to me (not a developer) when I am trying to read a development thread and its full of people making dumb comments or 300 posts thanking the developer while I'm trying to read the thread for something useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its all about trying to get your post count higher in order to make yourself look good.haha.......
I do agree on some kind of restriction, but how is one supose to get a post count of 20 if you cant post.
lostinroot:) said:
Its all about trying to get your post count higher in order to make yourself look good.haha.......
I do agree on some kind of restriction, but how is one supose to get a post count of 20 if you cant post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thing is, the board is able to do builtin post minimum blocking i believe. It cant do the other fancy application things and what not.
And you can always post everywhere else.
k2snowboards88 said:
If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really agree with this. There are plenty of people with good ideas who only bother to register when they have something interesting to share.
It might also be worthwhile to create a few sub-forums under the development forum. For example: one for ROMs, one for known fixes and one for fixes under development.
Richard
Mast3rpyr0 said:
And you can always post everywhere else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are you suggesting that a new member with a worthwhile development idea should post in the General forum?
donatom3 said:
I think the developer section should be read only unless you're approved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree under one condition... If I'm approved.
I agree.
I would also suggest that there be a panel established for "Jr. Members" to prove themselves worthy of posting in the dev section. That would enable devs new to the forum to have a voice and post worthwhile thoughts. The rest of us can just sit back and read!
ramiss said:
So are you suggesting that a new member with a worthwhile development idea should post in the General forum?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean if you want to flash something made by someone with 2 posts then go head, but i most certainly will not. 20 posts was not hard at all, even without just posting crap. All you gotta do is find a few threads your interested in and post a few things in them and you got em.
k2snowboards88 said:
I disagree, I think that posting a new topic in the development forum should be restricted somehow. Maybe by invite that is easy to apply for and easier to lose. If it were restricted by post count, we could be alienating new devs from other sites or phones. I think that topic starters in the development forum should be able to lock out non-developers from commenting if they want also. Its very frustrating to me (not a developer) when I am trying to read a development thread and its full of people making dumb comments or 300 posts thanking the developer while I'm trying to read the thread for something useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i agree the op should have mini admin powers to basically lock out people who are offering no help or productivity to the thread. of course it has to be approved by a real admin, you know like if i started a development thread and someone posted something stupid i could flag that user and ask an admin to basically make it so i have to approve their posts...it wouldn't create more work for admins it would make more work for the original poster, BUT if the original poster felt that these people are actually doing a disservice to their thread then i would imagine they would put in the time to edit out the dumb posts.
Mast3rpyr0 said:
I mean if you want to flash something made by someone with 2 posts then go head, but i most certainly will not. 20 posts was not hard at all, even without just posting crap. All you gotta do is find a few threads your interested in and post a few things in them and you got em.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As you said, 20 posts is not hard to reach... yet that somehow would qualify a poster to then be able to post in the Dev area??? Fuzzy logic there. I don't think post count should matter one way or another, it's just another way to discriminate against people for no reason. What says that the more posts you have, the more important your contributions to the community? Nothing.
I do agree that I most likely would not flash a rom that was posted up by a new member, unless I really just wanted to test and had nothing to lose. Many people here have more than one device and can flash without worrying about interrupting their phone service.
Bottom line, someone could have 500 posts, with nothing real to contribue inside of those posts, and later, post a lame rom that isn't worth the time it takes to flash it. Whereas, another user could only have 1 post to say hello, and be very savvy in the dev arena, who happens to post up a kickass rom that everyone wants. Post count shouldn't be a determining factor.
Jye75 said:
As you said, 20 posts is not hard to reach... yet that somehow would qualify a poster to then be able to post in the Dev area??? Fuzzy logic there. I don't think post count should matter one way or another, it's just another way to discriminate against people for no reason. What says that the more posts you have, the more important your contributions to the community? Nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not true.
The implication is that since you have more posts, (200 +, IMO), one should be familiar with what questions to ask, the manner in which to ask them, and be able to understand the answer given. That said; I know there *some* people with high post counts that may not be as "technical" or knowledgeable, though there input is just as valid as anyone else's (if you really don't want to discriminate). Conversely, I've seen people with 20 posts who have made great contributions as well, technical or not.
In regards to this thread, I think the way XDA does its moderation is fine. Though it would be nice to have have restrictions on new users, one of the major reasons why we shouldn't is because, you can't gauge a new user's level of skill/knowledge via there post count, but rather what they contribute.
Sure the majority of new users may not know anything about Android or be technical, but often, when a new phone comes out (like the EVO) there have been "new users" who come from other Android forums (SDX, AC, PPG, etc) and contribute right off the bat (first post even -- e.g. Calkulin, Joeykrim, etc) because they were top developers in there respective previous forums; however not many people would know that and right away asssume that there initial posts may not be as credible as someone with 200+ posts. My point is gauging the level of "knowledge, technical skill, etc" based on ones post count isn't really reliable, rather people should focus there attention on what the OP's has to say about the topic at hand and his/her contributions overall.
I see no reason to limit new users, especially with a forum such as this one, where a new users curiosity is thriving to get answers and ask questions because they want to see what his/her new Android phone is capable of. We were all in the same boat at one point, we probably Googled "How to root the "X" and XDA was the first on the list, thus the reason for us being here now.
Open Source means contribution by whomever (technical user or non-technical user) it shouldn't matter. Whatever can better this community to allow each individual to get the best experience out of his/her device, is what the aim should be. Ultimately however, it would be nice if the person who has received something also contribute back to the community in some way or another, creating an endless cycle of new and ever changing questions, answers, ideas, and contributions for us all.
pseudoremora said:
Not true.
Really? Your post contradicts you.
The implication is that since you have more posts, (200 +, IMO), one should be familiar with what questions to ask, the manner in which to ask them, and be able to understand the answer given. That said; I know there *some* people with high post counts that may not be as "technical" or knowledgeable, though there input is just as valid as anyone else's (if you really don't want to discriminate). Conversely, I've seen people with 20 posts who have made great contributions as well, technical or not.
In regards to this thread, I think the way XDA does its moderation is fine. Though it would be nice to have have restrictions on new users, one of the major reasons why we shouldn't is because, you can't gauge a new user's level of skill/knowledge via there post count, but rather what they contribute.
Sure the majority of new users may not know anything about Android or be technical, but often, when a new phone comes out (like the EVO) there have been "new users" who come from other Android forums (SDX, AC, PPG, etc) and contribute right off the bat (first post even -- e.g. Calkulin, Joeykrim, etc) because they were top developers in there respective previous forums; however not many people would know that and right away asssume that there initial posts may not be as credible as someone with 200+ posts. My point is gauging the level of "knowledge, technical skill, etc" based on ones post count isn't really reliable, rather people should focus there attention on what the OP's has to say about the topic at hand and his/her contributions overall.
I see no reason to limit new users, especially with a forum such as this one, where a new users curiosity is thriving to get answers and ask questions because they want to see what his/her new Android phone is capable of. We were all in the same boat at one point, we probably Googled "How to root the "X" and XDA was the first on the list, thus the reason for us being here now.
Open Source means contribution by whomever (technical user or non-technical user) it shouldn't matter. Whatever can better this community to allow each individual to get the best experience out of his/her device, is what the aim should be. Ultimately however, it would be nice if the person who has received something also contribute back to the community in some way or another, creating an endless cycle of new and ever changing questions, answers, ideas, and contributions for us all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, one would HOPE that this implication holds true, however, since it's not a guaranteed truth, it doesn't stand to reason that post count should be the qualifying factor in deciding if one could post or not. As far as the rest of your post goes, you and I are on the same page.
I just noticed this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=638133
May I ask why there is a ban on discussions of which ROMs are best?
Isn't that the whole point of a forum?
Is there anything else we should be aware of? banned words, certain sentences, are there any particular phrases that we can get into trouble for?
Ever heard of freedom of speech?
Am I going to get into trouble for this message because you don't like it?
Well i think it has nothing to do with ''censure''. Just some of us think that there is no BEST ROM and one should find out the BEST ROM for himself by himself.
But i may be wrong.
There is actualy no best rom!
For every user there is a best experience/stability/usefullness
How can you say its the best rom for me if it doesnt suit my taste?
Every HD2 behaves diferently from batch to batch, so another issue, for your hd2 one build may work perfect and for me - not at all...
No point in these threads.
Go in the apropreate build thread and post there, say whatever you like - it's the best, it's the worse...
I can't see any censureship here.
There is actualy no best rom!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
IanMc said:
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if all the mor... eh users where able to make just whatever post on the boards they liked everything would be a insane mess. topics that come along every week or so are usles they always have the same result. one user says THIS IS THE BEST !!!!!!!11111oneoneone the other says NO YOU SUCK THIS IS THE BEST !!!!!!!1111oneone and this wil go on for about 40 pages and still no one is any wiser.
In the meanwhile a good user just went along and found a rom he liked visually and with a nice amount of aps he likes. He found it was not his rom and try's another one and keeps trying until he finds his best rom.
The problem here is that alot of users have their opinions and they think their opinions are the only possible correct answer. And guess what oppinions can't be wrong. They can be different weird or even downright bizarre but they are all correct in their own world.
So you can create a topic and expect a flood of spam flame wars and rubbish but all it gets you is either a major Troll boner or a headache.
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
In the meanwhile a good user just went along and found a rom he liked visually and with a nice amount of aps he likes. He found it was not his rom and try's another one and keeps trying until he finds his best rom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
when you register acount on this site/forum,do you check YES/accept with the ruules
Because this is a development forum (or we try to be).
Disucssions on the "Best ROM" are subjective, and time limitted. Most people have thier faviorite ROM, this is not the best ROM, but they believe it is. I have seen these threads in the past and they just deteriate into "Fanboi'istic" (word a day ) debates over who's ROM is best and why.
A Clean ROM is fast and customisable, a Loaded ROM is feature rich, a themed ROM is the Chef's taste, etc.
Here is a lengthy discussion which I participated in last time this topic was raised : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466666
Thanks
Dave
No ROM is BEST !!!!!1111oneoneone11! (Though personally I think that ****** ROMs are good)
IanMc said:
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IanMc said:
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can talk the hell out of it, no one is stopping you, just do it in the right place - the build thread.
If you don't like the way moderators run the forum you can delete the account and make your personal Freedom forum or whatever you like...
Personaly I think you are a joke.
Be well and speak freely
btw
As a fellow xda user said above: you accepted the rules which the creators/owners/moderators of this forum ask us to comply with. Period!
IanMc said:
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see that you do not get the point of all this:
- that thread has been closed because it has no point.
- you can discuss the best rom thing for 1000 pages and there will be no BEST ROM, because there is no best rom.
-of course you can tell other people what you think about a rom but your best rom will not be my best rom
- so this is why that thread was closed.
-it is F***ING POINTLESS
- JUST LIKE THIS THREAD.
I agree this thread is totally pointless.
It would be great if a moderator closes it as it brings nothing to discuss just like the other thread that was closed.
If everyone would open a thread like this it would be very hard to find the best rom as the board
would be all cluttered with best rom threads and yes and no discussions.
DaveShaw
That was a very helpful post, the link you posted was most helpful and I especially agree with the well-crafted response from dumpydooby.
I apologise if I have posted in the wrong place and quite understand if this thread is moved to the correct place.
You are also correct that discussions of this nature are time limited.
Obviously we can all see that this is a subject of passion to many.
In my humble opinion there should always be a 'what we think is the best ROM for device X at the moment' thread. When it does get too old or argumentative etc. then just start a new one.
berbecverde
I disagree, I think there will always be a need to discuss the most popular combination of ROM/Radio/Apps of the moment. If you feel strongly that we should not have this freedom then I feel strongly that you are wrong.
lms1407
You just revert to personal insults, I'll bet you say things like 'this conversation is over!'
Avon76
Do you really think that your post was helpful? Honestly?
Massive post wot I prepared earlier follows, look away now if you're not interested.....
I suspect that this whole thread will be deleted or removed or force closed by the censors very soon so read it while you can.
Let me illustrate my points here, remember that I am talking about my dislike for censoring these forums in general for any topics but let's use the topic of discussion of ROMs to show how the censors are damaging the integrity of the forums and shooting themselves in their own feet at the same time.
Let's do it with a thought experiment.
Developers A, B, C and D develop ROMs for device X and make them available to users.
Users, quite within their rights in my opinion decide to discuss the various merits, likes and dislikes about these ROMs in a thread called 'Best ROMs for device X' where one user says 'I liked the graphics on A's ROM but I really liked the apps on D's ROM and I found C's ROM to be a bit unstable and I'm using ROM B at the moment because ...... '
Please imagine your answer for this question.
Who will benefit from this discourse?
Developers A, B, C or D ?
The users ?
Everyone ?
It is quite obvious that some of the users with the ability to close threads have the opinion that all ROMs should be tried and that there should be no shortcuts and new users should be railroaded into having to go through all the procedures that 'everyone else has had to do' and their only method to enforce this policy is to censor what is allowed to be posted but I would like to point out that in doing so they are going against some peoples wishes, look at one of the posts in that other thread (created by a senior member) where one user states:
Personally think this thread is a good idea for people like myself don't have a lot of spare time and haven't flashed a ROM yet; but are interested in doing so and want to know a good place to start, based on more seasoned users experiences.
I for one will be keenly viewing this thread (provided it doesn't get closed!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
However apart from all the unseen damage that censorship causes, in this particular case the developers might get some valuable insight into what users are actually looking for, a healthy competition might be the result and then who do you think is going to get the benefit in the end? Everyone!
There will always be those who want to try every ROM and Radio etc. but at the moment these people are restricted to the individual ROM threads if they want to share the results of their hard work and anyone who wants to see an objective discussion of the merits of the different ROM/Radio/Apps versions is forced to look on other forums on other websites.
The developers never really get to know what it is that the users really want.
Look at the mechanism at the moment, the user goes to the thread of developer A and says 'you're ROM is the best! Fantastic!, would it be possible to adjust this bit here?' and the developer thinks cool, they really love my ROM and he may or may not get around to adjusting that bit there.
Look at what it could be like:
Yeah, developer A's ROM is ok but I user developer B's ROM at the moment coz A's doesn't do this ...'
No kissass required, if developer A wants everyone to use his ROM then he'll need to make it like everyone wants or better.
Laurentius26
I see the massive amount of posts that you have made, I'm sure that you have been of tremendous help to a lot of people and that your opinion probably carries a lot of weight around here but I have to ask this question, would you not agree that the definition of a pointless post is that no-one replies to it?
Would you not agree that the mere fact that this topic is getting a lot of replies would indicate that it is in fact a topic of interest and therefore cannot be regarded as pointless?
I can see the potential advantages of having such threads, but seeing the number of arguments and fall outs users have already regarding ROMs abilities, chef preferences, what makes a good ROM, etc. it would fail.
If all our users were well bahaved (which they are not), they all stayed on-topic then we wouldn't need as many mods as we do now. As it is, there are many reported posts everyday from users that require mods attention, keeping the forum as organised and as friendly as we can.
Having to maintain "Best ROM" threads would be tiresome with well behaved users, just having to keep closing and re-opening new threads based on public opinion, but throw in troll, flamer's, fanbois it would be work.
In the past we have allowed "ROM Comparison" threads, that are fact driven, not opinion driven, as there is no reason not to.
My other concern is what will happen to Chefs if other users constantly down vote their ROM's (that is if they want to follow that thread as well as their own ROM threads).
Also,
Closing a thread does not censor it. It is still viewable and searchable, new useres, can search the site for the "Best HD2 ROM" and find a link to threads explaining why they are closed and what's the best way to try a new ROM. In guides I have previously assisted in writing (mskip's, Kaiser and Rhodium) it includes text advising users which is ROM to try first. If a user is new to XDA, they are encouraged to post questions in such threads, where (all been well) they will get a reply telling them to just try one after reading about the features. I have suggested NRG's ROMs to new users in the past because of their stability and popularity.
Dave
Well now with good argument like that you are changing my outlook and many of the things you say I had not considered.
I think we are very lucky to have such a place as XDA-Developers and such places show the big guns that there is also genius in the little folk.
If it proves to be too much work to maintain such threads then I quite understand why you won't have them although I can imagine a good moderator might keep an eye on such a thread and take an action like 'I am closing this thread now as it is degenerating into argument and insult, you are welcome to start a new one but be advised that I will close it also unless the discussion is kept at an acceptable level of civility' but if that is too much work then I quite understand why such a topic would not be allowed.
Thanks for your good discussion Dave, at least you don't revert to personal insults as a mechanism for argument
IanMc said:
Well now with good argument like that you are changing my outlook and many of the things you say I had not considered.
I think we are very lucky to have such a place as XDA-Developers and such places show the big guns that there is also genius in the little folk.
If it proves to be too much work to maintain such threads then I quite understand why you won't have them although I can imagine a good moderator might keep an eye on such a thread and take an action like 'I am closing this thread now as it is degenerating into argument and insult, you are welcome to start a new one but be advised that I will close it also unless the discussion is kept at an acceptable level of civility' but if that is too much work then I quite understand why such a topic would not be allowed.
Thanks for your good discussion Dave, at least you don't revert to personal insults as a mechanism for argument
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For a bit of history this decision was made long before I was a mod, and spent my Senior member days handing out insults to those who created those threads.
Even back then when a good number of users were mature and technical, before android and the mass increase of new members with, the mods (a few still remain ) knew the problems with such threads. As such, I don't think we will ever shift from this position.
Also,
I am a stackoverflow.com user and they have a similar rules on subjective posting for many of the same reasons.
This thread is just retarded even more then the ridiculous "what the best rom" threads.
Those threads are not "censored" they are simply moved or deleted because people are getting sick of them as they are asked every day and the answer is the same every time but still you get n00bs asking.
Its like going into ice0cream shop and saying "hey what your best ice-cream", just plain stupid.
TheATHEiST
Well surely this is just your own personal opinion?
One thread in each ROM area dedicated to users findings of the various ROMs for that device could be invaluable for both developers and users instead of the complete labyrinth it is at the moment (although I read that the HD2 forums are going to be rearranged soon). And it might be a moderator decision to close the thread when it gets too large to keep it current, civil and up-to-date.
However I think people like Dave are the only ones who really know what it is like to maintain such threads.
I would like to point out though that such public forums are for public discussion, it is all too easy to say 'hey that subject is retarded' and attempt to frighten or bully people away from discussing a subject that you don't think is appropriate, but personally I think that is wrong and against the spirit of free discussion on the internet.
IanMc said:
TheATHEiST
Well surely this is just your own personal opinion?
One thread in each ROM area dedicated to users findings of the various ROMs for that device could be invaluable for both developers and users instead of the complete labyrinth it is at the moment (although I read that the HD2 forums are going to be rearranged soon). And it might be a moderator decision to close the thread when it gets too large to keep it current, civil and up-to-date.
However I think people like Dave are the only ones who really know what it is like to maintain such threads.
I would like to point out though that such public forums are for public discussion, it is all too easy to say 'hey that subject is retarded' and attempt to frighten or bully people away from discussing a subject that you don't think is appropriate, but personally I think that is wrong and against the spirit of free discussion on the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go buy a CHE t shirt and go yell at the white house fight the power and all its censorship. Seriously you accepted rules when you registered here. This is not a democracy this is a privately owned forum where moderators decide if some topic is retarded yes or no.
And i hate to bring it to you like this but a retarded monkey fish is less retarded then that topic. No amount of talking or trying to convince your topic is something different then the next what build is best for my HD2 because i am to lazy to search topic. That kind of topic gets closed nearly EVERY DAY.
So again if you are so keen to fight the power buy a che t shirt and go yell at your local government.
I would love to see a poll of "What ROM are you using on your dinc" or What is your favorite ROM".
Can we get a poll on what Rom is the most popular?
overground's post before closing that thread:
The reason we close what's referred to as "Best ROM Threads" is because the vast majority of the type end up a nasty flame fest. The reasons should be obvious. It's really a matter of opinion, and then you get the fanboys of certain devs chiming in, and well, you get it. My advice is try a few and make that choice yourself. It's easy to find the most popular ATM, because they stay on page 1 of the dev sub. That doesn't necessarily make it the best, however. Give some a shot and see what's best for you. To credit this thread, 8 pages and still civil. Seems DINC is growing up.
Thread closed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
byrong said:
Can we get a poll on what Rom is the most popular?
overground's post before closing that thread:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to see the poll numbers, period. I'm not interested in the reasons or the debates. I think it would be a mistake not to allow the vote because you want to avoid the discussions you anticipate. What does it matter anyway if people get into a heated discussion?...1- you don't have to read it. 2- that's why we have moderators. A forum should not avoid threads on controversial issues.
marcmarshall said:
I would like to see the poll numbers, period. I'm not interested in the reasons or the debates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's even more worthless than the arguments. If you just have people clicking a button, how do you know what else they've tried? What use is it to know that Redemptive Revolution is John Smith's favorite ROM if John Smith has never used any other ROM?
That's one of the many reasons that raw numbers from such polls is generally worthless. You don't know whether any given vote is being cast by someone with solid experience, or some guy who is brand new to Android and thinks that the new ROM he just flashed is pretty. Clearly, these two votes should carry different weight, but in a poll they do not.
Besides, I do not believe that the forum software allows for a poll without an open discussion thread. If you would like to set up your own poll using another site's software, nothing is stopping you.
marcmarshall said:
I think it would be a mistake not to allow the vote because you want to avoid the discussions you anticipate. What does it matter anyway if people get into a heated discussion?...1- you don't have to read it. 2- that's why we have moderators.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care one way or the other. I'm just a member. You're right: I can ignore such a thread.
But the quote I posted was from a moderator here, so your point that "that's why we have moderators" is short-sighted and not your call to make. Just because you think that mods should spend their time looking after an unnecessarily heated discussion does not mean that they want to spend their time that way.
I don't really care about this subject one way or the other: I just thought it would be helpful to provide you with a link to one of the countless "best ROM" threads and a quote directly from a Mod on why such threads are discouraged.
byrong said:
That's even more worthless than the arguments. If you just have people clicking a button, how do you know what else they've tried? What use is it to know that Redemptive Revolution is John Smith's favorite ROM if John Smith has never used any other ROM?
That's one of the many reasons that raw numbers from such polls is generally worthless. You don't know whether any given vote is being cast by someone with solid experience, or some guy who is brand new to Android and thinks that the new ROM he just flashed is pretty. Clearly, these two votes should carry different weight, but in a poll they do not.
Besides, I do not believe that the forum software allows for a poll without an open discussion thread. If you would like to set up your own poll using another site's software, nothing is stopping you.
I don't care one way or the other. I'm just a member. You're right: I can ignore such a thread.
But the quote I posted was from a moderator here, so your point that "that's why we have moderators" is short-sighted and not your call to make. Just because you think that mods should spend their time looking after an unnecessarily heated discussion does not mean that they want to spend their time that way.
I don't really care about this subject one way or the other: I just thought it would be helpful to provide you with a link to one of the countless "best ROM" threads and a quote directly from a Mod on why such threads are discouraged.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You make good points byrong. I can understand that moderators don't want to spend a lot of time in such a debate, especially if it gets heated.
I also see how some opinions are more experienced and valuable than others. I also know that what makes a ROM attractive to one person another person might not care at all about, and that there there are a tremendous amount of variables to be considered in a single vote. All that said, In the aggregate when there is a large amount (thousands?) of votes, I think the result might be interesting to see. Maybe your right though and it would just be more noise than information.
Certainly if the forum software does not allow for poll vote pages this discussion is moot and maybe a bigger waste of time than the proposed thread might be!
Why didnt you just make this thread a poll? Its weird that you started a thread wanting to see a poll but you could of just made this thread a poll. You still could make this a poll by clicking on Thread Tools. Weird
incubus26jc said:
Why didnt you just make this thread a poll? Its weird that you started a thread wanting to see a poll but you could of just made this thread a poll. You still could make this a poll by clicking on Thread Tools. Weird
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha- I remember wondering why I never saw polls on XDA and I thought I had noticed in the past there was no option to start a poll in the thread tools. I see now I could have, duh
At this point I'm almost swayed against it but I am going to try the thread tool and start the poll right after this post.
BTW- thanks for WarmZ, one of the few I've tried and a great ROM imho!
Edit- Never started a poll before. Of course I would I have to list all the ROMS as choices. Going to take a little ahhh...effort, and will have to wait a bit. I have to start on my taxes!
Well taxes done but I now realize byrong is right and how pointless this would be. Hopefully this thread will be yanked.