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Okay firstly this is what jaxouk wrote:
I have read many posts where people are asking which is the best rom for my device (and have done myself) only to get abrupt replies with something like "how dare you ask this, chefs put a lot of effort into each rom and its down to personal preferance blah blah" ................"THREAD CLOSED"
Does every one think think this is the best way for xda to be run or is there other people that think this should be allowed to be debated? I know this is originally a developer forum, however I would hazard a guess that there is now more public users that devolpers.
The thing is developers develope roms and yes certainly they put a lot of time and effort into it and are respected rightly so for it. however can the end user really be expected not to be allowed to discuss these roms on the forum only to be told the above mensioned things. It happens time and again over and over. People like myself (the end user) do not have time to flash every rom to find the ones they like. (its a days setting up for myself after a flash) and if its crap (which there is no denying. some are) its a day wasted.
What I think the forum needs is a "ROM USER REVIEW" section where people like myself can go and rate a rom for other users referance.
Surely this is the key to better roms. If one developers rom is poor hes going to be able to see that its poor and will/might take the user rating / comments on board and the next time try harder.... ultimately producing a better rom.
Competition is what makes better products, If handset manufacturers took the same stance as xda we would be waiting for the realease of the o2 xda 2s later this year. and this is the same in all industries.
Okay so firstly Spot on and totally agree with you which as we all can see the majority of members using XDA agree with too.
Secondly this is what itje wrote who is a Moderator here:
I closed this thread, due to the same reason all the others that are similar all over xda are closed on sight.
These kind of threads usualy/always ends up in disputes and flamewars, there is always some hotheaded ppl who burst into flames when someone dont have the same view as they do.
So... sorry, yeah we close
So basically what you are saying is we as members are not allowed to treat XDA as a discussion forum as well as a Developer Forum? I thought the whole meaning to the word Forum, was for people to discuss there DIFFERENT opinions and have certain disputes with one another.
Sorry if people dont agree with this and please tell me why but I just think its silly that a mod would close a thread incase someone shouts and god forbid have an opinion.
Let me know what you guys think
It´s realy funny, when new user come to this forum and try to tell the old, experienced user, how the forum should go. I sometimes need to laugh about those statements but there are times i only want cry
I´m 100% agree with the Moderators (cause they are Moderators ). If you spend some more time around here, you will see how this forum works. Just use it, don´t complain.
I wasnt telling anyone how to run THIS forum I was basically explaining to everyone how a forum is normally run, if this is the way everyone likes it then fine but looking through 100's of posts and topics around here all I see is members and "noobs" getting put down from the likes of you.
crazy cat said:
It´s realy funny, when new user come to this forum and try to tell the old, experienced user, how the forum should go. I sometimes need to laugh about those statements but there are times i only want cry
I´m 100% agree with the Moderators (cause they are Moderators ). If you spend some more time around here, you will see how this forum works. Just use it, don´t complain.
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me no understand
This has been explained again and again.
Personal and objective opinions are not allowed here. So if you can't make your own judgement on which ROM's to use you might want to stick to the stock ROM. Or The best thing to do is setup your own personal blog for these types of things. Then you can say what you want.
This will be another thread closed soon i feel.
It's impossible to determine what 'the best rom' would be...
Some ppl love a transparent clock, others hate it.
Same with the slider bar.
Same with themes.
Some ppl love a windows build with the start button on the top, some ppl love it with the button on the bottom.
Some ppl love to have a crapload of apps installed, some ppl hate it.
Some ppl love to have the newest unstable build, some ppl want the secure and stable one.
I might love a rom and you might hate it, the only objective criteria is how stable a rom is but even that can be debated. So you just have to try, see what works for you and go from there.
thread closed (i wish)
i have no problem myself with people arguing about something, even when things are heating. i am more then capable to defend myself
you know what they say - when the going gets tough, the though gets going
it is clear that general policy of this forum will not allow this kind of debate
what i am suggesting is something i saw on othe forums:
a special place with a big warnig ENTER ON YOUR OWN RISK, or something like that
this special place is organised as a battle place where every user can call out another user on a subject and then they have a public "battle". the other users are the public and in the end they choose which of the fighters is the winner
here the rules are somehow loose and mods only came in when things are realy degenerate - curses, personal insults, family offense, etc.
bottom line - i, personaly, would allow topics about best roms, best apps, best whatever, and when people cross the line i would suggest them to cool down on the battle field
this can be a stupid ideea, but maybe something like that will help users to get off the presure somewhere and then to disscuss cool and polite the subjects they are interested in
regards
noris08 said:
i have no problem myself with people arguing about something, even when things are heating. i am more then capable to defend myself
you know what they say - when the going gets tough, the though gets going
it is clear that general policy of this forum will not allow this kind of debate
what i am suggesting is something i saw on othe forums:
a special place with a big warnig ENTER ON YOUR OWN RISK, or something like that
this special place is organised as a battle place where every user can call out another user on a subject and then they have a public "battle". the other users are the public and in the end they choose which of the fighters is the winner
here the rules are somehow loose and mods only came in when things are realy degenerate - curses, personal insults, family offense, etc.
bottom line - i, personaly, would allow topics about best roms, best apps, best whatever, and when people cross the line i would suggest them to cool down on the battle field
this can be a stupid ideea, but maybe something like that will help users to get off the presure somewhere and then to disscuss cool and polite the subjects they are interested in
regards
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Another problem with this kind of thing is you will have people come to this thread and ***** and complain about a particular ROM instead of the original ROM thread. The truth be known many of the problems users face are due to them not following instruction or due to some other incompatible software there are trying to use and then they blame their problems on the ROM creator. The down side to this is a thread like this will only open up negative criticism of a ROM and cause harm to the cook that maybe unjust. Not to mention that the problems need to be kept within the ROM threads in order to better improve the ROM's.
I understand what people want and this is why I made the statement to open your own blog or site to do these things and then link to here.
i have to agree. cooker cooks a rom and we rate it. if it was just "cook, post, upload, thread closed" in res of the world then everyone would buy apple, but cause its the information age we need to know what is what and where is where.
this should be even more seen here on "professional" forum like xda-developers.
i totaly agree with OP.
@bazgee: saying that 'noobs' shouldnt talk.. makes you so much more a 'noob'. your ass wasn't born smart and so wasn't OPs.
bobsbbq said:
Another problem with this kind of thing is you will have people come to this thread and ***** and complain about a particular ROM instead of the original ROM thread.
....
The down side to this is a thread like this will only open up negative criticism of a ROM and cause harm to the cook that maybe unjust. Not to mention that the problems need to be kept within the ROM threads in order to better improve the ROM's.
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This is what forums are for!! To ASK, and to ANSWER!!
Edit; I'm not going to say something, post removed.
Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
It's apples vs oranges. It can't be compared. If your imagination needs a bit of help, look up consoles vs PCs, or PS3 vs x360 threads. Have you ever seen one not turn into a massive flamefest? ... exactly!
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
Developers Forum?
The notion that this is a developers forum is a myth anyway. The end users play a massive role in here, determining bugs, requesting new features or feature removal and indeed critiquing the ROM within its own thread.
The idea that WW3 will break out if we allow dedicated discussion threads seems a bit weak to me. I've seen heated discussions in ROM threads and they never became more than that.
I'm sure it is more to do with protecting the ROM developers so that the ones who's ROMs may be bottom of the pile don't walk away, which is fair enough.
But from some people there is an all around lack of respect on this forum for the general user who do that deepest broadest testing, offer wirespread feedback and go a long way to making the ROM's what they are today.
And do not forget - if these folks weren't here to download the ROM's, how many chefs do you think would be here to cook them! Both sides need each other. I don't doubt the chefs get a kick from giving people what they want.
The moderators don't 'need' to do anything (We will all be here anyway) but if they have some respect then they should take on board and accomodate what appears to be the opinion of a vast number of users.
I'm sure there is some middle ground somewhere if we try and look ....
Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
That is not the case. There are roms that are the fastest, Roms that are the smoothest, Roms that have the best landscape support, Roms with the best apps to suit needs amongst others. Certainly if you try and make one overall top ten then it is going to be a lucky dip, but nobody suggested that.
It's apples vs oranges. It can't be compared. If your imagination needs a bit of help, look up consoles vs PCs, or PS3 vs x360 threads. Have you ever seen one not turn into a massive flamefest? ... exactly!
I'm not sure consolve vs PC is quite the same a comparing different ROMs as they have the same hardware, similar architecture, purpose etc Your also getting a little needlesly condescending now ;-)
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
This is good advice for bug testing but does not offer any more constructive information on the whole.
mwillems2 said:
Really, is it *that* hard to understand there is *no* best ROM? They are all different!
That is not the case. There are roms that are the fastest, Roms that are the smoothest, Roms that have the best landscape support, Roms with the best apps to suit needs amongst others. Certainly if you try and make one overall top ten then it is going to be a lucky dip, but nobody suggested that.
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How exactly they are not different then? There is no two exactly same ROMs, with exactly same aims and objectives of a cook over here. Reading ROM description tells you exactly what the rom does and what the cook aims to achieve.
As an example; some ROMs have custom themes, some roms use MaxManilla, some use stock, some use something completely different. You can't quantify what's better. It's personal preference.
You can't possibly quantify 'best apps to suit needs' as everyone has different needs. As I said apples vs oranges.
If you want to make sure a ROM working, check the last 2-3 pages of ROMs thread to see if there are people complaining.
This is good advice for bug testing but does not offer any more constructive information on the whole.
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Again, I'm trying to understand what are you on about, but I can't. What is constructive information according to you?
You have ROM description on the first page, you can check the last few if there are any issues with it. What else do you want?
[/QUOTE]
i agree what bobsbbq said ,is not fair to say that this rom is good and this rom is better but if you try the other rom is far more better,is dissrespectul from the chefs trying to help you guys having best rom's avialible and to open another thread to say things like that is bad,so for me i choose my own judgement and would not ask others wich rom is best,so this thread is closed
mwillems2 said:
The notion that this is a developers forum is a myth anyway.
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You're saying this like it is somehow an acceptable, or possibly even a good thing. It is not.
It's true that this forum is now visited by people who:
cannot be bothered to read the first post of any thread
have no intention of educating themselves, only blindly consuming
will shamelessly ***** and make demands about things they are getting for free
These people do not make the community "better" in any way, and this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated in my view.
mwillems2 said:
The idea that WW3 will break out if we allow dedicated discussion threads seems a bit weak to me. I've seen heated discussions in ROM threads and they never became more than that.
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Heated discussions in themselves do not need to escalate any further. They are already a waste of everybody's time, and have no place here.
mwillems2 said:
But from some people there is an all around lack of respect on this forum for the general user who do that deepest broadest testing, offer wirespread feedback and go a long way to making the ROM's what they are today.
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I'm relatively sure the user who is seriously interested in testing and reporting is not in need of a completely seperate thread to voice their opinion on which ROM is somehow "best". For testers it's not constructive to voice opinions about a ROM in any other thread than the original ROM thread.
mwillems2 said:
And do not forget - if these folks weren't here to download the ROM's, how many chefs do you think would be here to cook them! Both sides need each other. I don't doubt the chefs get a kick from giving people what they want.
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Not so sure about that. I've seen plenty of chefs say that they basically cook for themselves, and just like to share. Even if they are cooking for the community, they do not need people to praise or diss their ROM's in any other thread than their own.
Overall, I feel the biggest problem with having a centralized ROM discussion thread is the intented audience: people who cannot be bothered to test and compare by themselves, people who cannot be bothered to read individual ROM threads.
What would be the point in creating a new thread for these people? Once it gets beyond 1 page, they will not bothered to read it anyway.
for me personally these "top 20s" don't have any value whatsoever but i understand why so many people want them. some of them are just lazy and want to avoid to read the threads, others are not able to think for themselves and need to be told what is good or bad for them and there are those who want to become famous reviewers.
for cryin' out loud, don't fix what is not broken! this forum is perfect as it is. moderators, don't let the comorades tell you what to do!
Volw said:
How exactly they are not different then? There is no two exactly same ROMs, with exactly same aims and objectives of a cook over here. Reading ROM description tells you exactly what the rom does and what the cook aims to achieve.
As an example; some ROMs have custom themes, some roms use MaxManilla, some use stock, some use something completely different. You can't quantify what's better. It's personal preference.
You can't possibly quantify 'best apps to suit needs' as everyone has different needs. As I said apples vs oranges.
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I think is better we not make comparative, believe it is better for all!!
but if you say it is impossible to compare among themselves the Rom, you're wrong!
lol reopened.
anyway i belive this huld be discussed. we are here three levels of people. so this will need for 1st level, and 2nd level will be trying the roms and giving feed backs. so 3rd level always will be cooking and editing roms. just my opinion.
lets start the work.. i go for duttys HG V.08
I just noticed this thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=638133
May I ask why there is a ban on discussions of which ROMs are best?
Isn't that the whole point of a forum?
Is there anything else we should be aware of? banned words, certain sentences, are there any particular phrases that we can get into trouble for?
Ever heard of freedom of speech?
Am I going to get into trouble for this message because you don't like it?
Well i think it has nothing to do with ''censure''. Just some of us think that there is no BEST ROM and one should find out the BEST ROM for himself by himself.
But i may be wrong.
There is actualy no best rom!
For every user there is a best experience/stability/usefullness
How can you say its the best rom for me if it doesnt suit my taste?
Every HD2 behaves diferently from batch to batch, so another issue, for your hd2 one build may work perfect and for me - not at all...
No point in these threads.
Go in the apropreate build thread and post there, say whatever you like - it's the best, it's the worse...
I can't see any censureship here.
There is actualy no best rom!
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This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
IanMc said:
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
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if all the mor... eh users where able to make just whatever post on the boards they liked everything would be a insane mess. topics that come along every week or so are usles they always have the same result. one user says THIS IS THE BEST !!!!!!!11111oneoneone the other says NO YOU SUCK THIS IS THE BEST !!!!!!!1111oneone and this wil go on for about 40 pages and still no one is any wiser.
In the meanwhile a good user just went along and found a rom he liked visually and with a nice amount of aps he likes. He found it was not his rom and try's another one and keeps trying until he finds his best rom.
The problem here is that alot of users have their opinions and they think their opinions are the only possible correct answer. And guess what oppinions can't be wrong. They can be different weird or even downright bizarre but they are all correct in their own world.
So you can create a topic and expect a flood of spam flame wars and rubbish but all it gets you is either a major Troll boner or a headache.
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
In the meanwhile a good user just went along and found a rom he liked visually and with a nice amount of aps he likes. He found it was not his rom and try's another one and keeps trying until he finds his best rom.
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And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
when you register acount on this site/forum,do you check YES/accept with the ruules
Because this is a development forum (or we try to be).
Disucssions on the "Best ROM" are subjective, and time limitted. Most people have thier faviorite ROM, this is not the best ROM, but they believe it is. I have seen these threads in the past and they just deteriate into "Fanboi'istic" (word a day ) debates over who's ROM is best and why.
A Clean ROM is fast and customisable, a Loaded ROM is feature rich, a themed ROM is the Chef's taste, etc.
Here is a lengthy discussion which I participated in last time this topic was raised : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=466666
Thanks
Dave
No ROM is BEST !!!!!1111oneoneone11! (Though personally I think that ****** ROMs are good)
IanMc said:
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
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IanMc said:
This may be a valid point but how would we know if we are not permitted to talk about it ?
BTW. when I titled this thread 'XDA Censured?' it was a Freudian slip of the computer keyboard I should have typed 'Censored' however 'Censure' means to formally rebuke
I happen to strongly believe in freedom of speech and if people wish to talk about what they think is the best ROM for them and why etc. then if this is indeed a forum for the perpetuation of freedom of speech I think it is very wrong that some individuals should take it upon themselves to decide that this is not a fit topic for discussion and to close threads based on there own personal and dare one say dictatorial opinions.
That is the beginning of a slippery slide down into a cesspit of censorship and we don't want a smelly forum now do we!
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You can talk the hell out of it, no one is stopping you, just do it in the right place - the build thread.
If you don't like the way moderators run the forum you can delete the account and make your personal Freedom forum or whatever you like...
Personaly I think you are a joke.
Be well and speak freely
btw
As a fellow xda user said above: you accepted the rules which the creators/owners/moderators of this forum ask us to comply with. Period!
IanMc said:
So you are saying that the 'mor...' users of this forum should not be allowed to decide the topics ?
So it's a kind of hit and miss thing then huh? I'll start a topic about something that I'm interested in and check back in a while to see if it's either been deleted, closed or allowed to exist?
I suppose there's an inverse law in there somewhere, a ratio of something like:
Successful topic = users subject / tin pot dictators opinions
so that the greater the number of people with the ability to close threads based on their own whims the fewer the number of successful postings and the more damage done to the integrity of the forums.
You, in the meantime, think you are doing us all a favour by blindly planting your 'loyalty' with the ones doing the censorship.
And then he is not allowed to tell anyone about it.
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I see that you do not get the point of all this:
- that thread has been closed because it has no point.
- you can discuss the best rom thing for 1000 pages and there will be no BEST ROM, because there is no best rom.
-of course you can tell other people what you think about a rom but your best rom will not be my best rom
- so this is why that thread was closed.
-it is F***ING POINTLESS
- JUST LIKE THIS THREAD.
I agree this thread is totally pointless.
It would be great if a moderator closes it as it brings nothing to discuss just like the other thread that was closed.
If everyone would open a thread like this it would be very hard to find the best rom as the board
would be all cluttered with best rom threads and yes and no discussions.
DaveShaw
That was a very helpful post, the link you posted was most helpful and I especially agree with the well-crafted response from dumpydooby.
I apologise if I have posted in the wrong place and quite understand if this thread is moved to the correct place.
You are also correct that discussions of this nature are time limited.
Obviously we can all see that this is a subject of passion to many.
In my humble opinion there should always be a 'what we think is the best ROM for device X at the moment' thread. When it does get too old or argumentative etc. then just start a new one.
berbecverde
I disagree, I think there will always be a need to discuss the most popular combination of ROM/Radio/Apps of the moment. If you feel strongly that we should not have this freedom then I feel strongly that you are wrong.
lms1407
You just revert to personal insults, I'll bet you say things like 'this conversation is over!'
Avon76
Do you really think that your post was helpful? Honestly?
Massive post wot I prepared earlier follows, look away now if you're not interested.....
I suspect that this whole thread will be deleted or removed or force closed by the censors very soon so read it while you can.
Let me illustrate my points here, remember that I am talking about my dislike for censoring these forums in general for any topics but let's use the topic of discussion of ROMs to show how the censors are damaging the integrity of the forums and shooting themselves in their own feet at the same time.
Let's do it with a thought experiment.
Developers A, B, C and D develop ROMs for device X and make them available to users.
Users, quite within their rights in my opinion decide to discuss the various merits, likes and dislikes about these ROMs in a thread called 'Best ROMs for device X' where one user says 'I liked the graphics on A's ROM but I really liked the apps on D's ROM and I found C's ROM to be a bit unstable and I'm using ROM B at the moment because ...... '
Please imagine your answer for this question.
Who will benefit from this discourse?
Developers A, B, C or D ?
The users ?
Everyone ?
It is quite obvious that some of the users with the ability to close threads have the opinion that all ROMs should be tried and that there should be no shortcuts and new users should be railroaded into having to go through all the procedures that 'everyone else has had to do' and their only method to enforce this policy is to censor what is allowed to be posted but I would like to point out that in doing so they are going against some peoples wishes, look at one of the posts in that other thread (created by a senior member) where one user states:
Personally think this thread is a good idea for people like myself don't have a lot of spare time and haven't flashed a ROM yet; but are interested in doing so and want to know a good place to start, based on more seasoned users experiences.
I for one will be keenly viewing this thread (provided it doesn't get closed!).
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However apart from all the unseen damage that censorship causes, in this particular case the developers might get some valuable insight into what users are actually looking for, a healthy competition might be the result and then who do you think is going to get the benefit in the end? Everyone!
There will always be those who want to try every ROM and Radio etc. but at the moment these people are restricted to the individual ROM threads if they want to share the results of their hard work and anyone who wants to see an objective discussion of the merits of the different ROM/Radio/Apps versions is forced to look on other forums on other websites.
The developers never really get to know what it is that the users really want.
Look at the mechanism at the moment, the user goes to the thread of developer A and says 'you're ROM is the best! Fantastic!, would it be possible to adjust this bit here?' and the developer thinks cool, they really love my ROM and he may or may not get around to adjusting that bit there.
Look at what it could be like:
Yeah, developer A's ROM is ok but I user developer B's ROM at the moment coz A's doesn't do this ...'
No kissass required, if developer A wants everyone to use his ROM then he'll need to make it like everyone wants or better.
Laurentius26
I see the massive amount of posts that you have made, I'm sure that you have been of tremendous help to a lot of people and that your opinion probably carries a lot of weight around here but I have to ask this question, would you not agree that the definition of a pointless post is that no-one replies to it?
Would you not agree that the mere fact that this topic is getting a lot of replies would indicate that it is in fact a topic of interest and therefore cannot be regarded as pointless?
I can see the potential advantages of having such threads, but seeing the number of arguments and fall outs users have already regarding ROMs abilities, chef preferences, what makes a good ROM, etc. it would fail.
If all our users were well bahaved (which they are not), they all stayed on-topic then we wouldn't need as many mods as we do now. As it is, there are many reported posts everyday from users that require mods attention, keeping the forum as organised and as friendly as we can.
Having to maintain "Best ROM" threads would be tiresome with well behaved users, just having to keep closing and re-opening new threads based on public opinion, but throw in troll, flamer's, fanbois it would be work.
In the past we have allowed "ROM Comparison" threads, that are fact driven, not opinion driven, as there is no reason not to.
My other concern is what will happen to Chefs if other users constantly down vote their ROM's (that is if they want to follow that thread as well as their own ROM threads).
Also,
Closing a thread does not censor it. It is still viewable and searchable, new useres, can search the site for the "Best HD2 ROM" and find a link to threads explaining why they are closed and what's the best way to try a new ROM. In guides I have previously assisted in writing (mskip's, Kaiser and Rhodium) it includes text advising users which is ROM to try first. If a user is new to XDA, they are encouraged to post questions in such threads, where (all been well) they will get a reply telling them to just try one after reading about the features. I have suggested NRG's ROMs to new users in the past because of their stability and popularity.
Dave
Well now with good argument like that you are changing my outlook and many of the things you say I had not considered.
I think we are very lucky to have such a place as XDA-Developers and such places show the big guns that there is also genius in the little folk.
If it proves to be too much work to maintain such threads then I quite understand why you won't have them although I can imagine a good moderator might keep an eye on such a thread and take an action like 'I am closing this thread now as it is degenerating into argument and insult, you are welcome to start a new one but be advised that I will close it also unless the discussion is kept at an acceptable level of civility' but if that is too much work then I quite understand why such a topic would not be allowed.
Thanks for your good discussion Dave, at least you don't revert to personal insults as a mechanism for argument
IanMc said:
Well now with good argument like that you are changing my outlook and many of the things you say I had not considered.
I think we are very lucky to have such a place as XDA-Developers and such places show the big guns that there is also genius in the little folk.
If it proves to be too much work to maintain such threads then I quite understand why you won't have them although I can imagine a good moderator might keep an eye on such a thread and take an action like 'I am closing this thread now as it is degenerating into argument and insult, you are welcome to start a new one but be advised that I will close it also unless the discussion is kept at an acceptable level of civility' but if that is too much work then I quite understand why such a topic would not be allowed.
Thanks for your good discussion Dave, at least you don't revert to personal insults as a mechanism for argument
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For a bit of history this decision was made long before I was a mod, and spent my Senior member days handing out insults to those who created those threads.
Even back then when a good number of users were mature and technical, before android and the mass increase of new members with, the mods (a few still remain ) knew the problems with such threads. As such, I don't think we will ever shift from this position.
Also,
I am a stackoverflow.com user and they have a similar rules on subjective posting for many of the same reasons.
This thread is just retarded even more then the ridiculous "what the best rom" threads.
Those threads are not "censored" they are simply moved or deleted because people are getting sick of them as they are asked every day and the answer is the same every time but still you get n00bs asking.
Its like going into ice0cream shop and saying "hey what your best ice-cream", just plain stupid.
TheATHEiST
Well surely this is just your own personal opinion?
One thread in each ROM area dedicated to users findings of the various ROMs for that device could be invaluable for both developers and users instead of the complete labyrinth it is at the moment (although I read that the HD2 forums are going to be rearranged soon). And it might be a moderator decision to close the thread when it gets too large to keep it current, civil and up-to-date.
However I think people like Dave are the only ones who really know what it is like to maintain such threads.
I would like to point out though that such public forums are for public discussion, it is all too easy to say 'hey that subject is retarded' and attempt to frighten or bully people away from discussing a subject that you don't think is appropriate, but personally I think that is wrong and against the spirit of free discussion on the internet.
IanMc said:
TheATHEiST
Well surely this is just your own personal opinion?
One thread in each ROM area dedicated to users findings of the various ROMs for that device could be invaluable for both developers and users instead of the complete labyrinth it is at the moment (although I read that the HD2 forums are going to be rearranged soon). And it might be a moderator decision to close the thread when it gets too large to keep it current, civil and up-to-date.
However I think people like Dave are the only ones who really know what it is like to maintain such threads.
I would like to point out though that such public forums are for public discussion, it is all too easy to say 'hey that subject is retarded' and attempt to frighten or bully people away from discussing a subject that you don't think is appropriate, but personally I think that is wrong and against the spirit of free discussion on the internet.
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Click to collapse
Go buy a CHE t shirt and go yell at the white house fight the power and all its censorship. Seriously you accepted rules when you registered here. This is not a democracy this is a privately owned forum where moderators decide if some topic is retarded yes or no.
And i hate to bring it to you like this but a retarded monkey fish is less retarded then that topic. No amount of talking or trying to convince your topic is something different then the next what build is best for my HD2 because i am to lazy to search topic. That kind of topic gets closed nearly EVERY DAY.
So again if you are so keen to fight the power buy a che t shirt and go yell at your local government.
This is in reference to this thread:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=1413086
I am reposting my response in hopes that the Moderators will read it and do something about it...
We have a problem here. There are 100s of roms, each claiming to be the best thing since sliced (ginger)bread. I, like many readers, dont have the time or know-how to check out every single rom out there. So, we ask for other people's opinions on which are good, which are bad. It is completely useless and incredible time consuming to read through every thread about every rom, because they all say the same things. If you look at the above thread, you see the normal responses...
There needs to be some better moderation in this forum for it to be useful at all. At this point we have dozens of threads with 500+ posts, and people are expected to read through the whole thing, usually filled with usually bumps, or "i like this", or "this sucks", to find anything useful. the search box returns ALL relevant items, which means that every single post mentioning a rom will be returned.
I know that I want to get the most out of my device, but between working, commuting, volunteering, and trying to spend time with my friends, I have very little time to devote towards trawling through the treasure trove of junk posts that litter this forum.
My proposal is to make threads for roms be on topic, and eliminate useless postings.
People, if you like a rom, rate it high. If you dont, rate it low.
jbarol said:
There are 100s of roms, each claiming to be the best thing since sliced (ginger)bread.
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Click to collapse
What I hate even more is the users who claim the same fact. Minutes after flashing a new Rom it's amaaaaazing. It's soooo fast, the battery-drain is gone, it's smooth, the dev is a geeeeenius etc. When you say something about it better brace yourself as WW-III is about to start. No bad things please about the favorite Rom!
Guess it's the way these forums work. Say something positive (usually B.S.): great! Say something negative (even with valid arguments): GO AWAY!
Oh well.
Better moderation isn't needed. Neither are lazy sods who want to be spoonfed.
Think of the work the devs have done.
Think of the hours and hours of coding and testing they do.
Think of the fact they do it for free or beer money.
Then think of someone who's posted about 30 times who cannot be bothered reading about these ROMs and making his own mind up.
Think of a whingeing brat.
I don't think it's a case of 'better moderation' being needed. If you see threads like this which are either pissing contests or made by people too lazy to do the hard yards, simply report the thread.
I've found the mods are normally very quick to either move a thread to the correct part of the forum if it's in the wrong spot, or close the thread post haste if it really is one of those mindless threads.
I've reported several (4 or 5 from memory) of the latter over the last few days and all of them have been closed within the hour.
Can't get better moderation than that IMHO. My point is, the mods aren't mindreaders nor are they here 24/7. If you see a thread that shouldn't be, let them know and more often than not if will be dealt with.
I got back to flashing about a month ago and it took me roughly 20 minutes to figure out which ROMs were the most popular ones. It's not that hard.
The rest of the ROMs mostly have short and to the point feature lists, sometimes youtube videos and screenshots too.
If anything, perhaps a complete ROM list would be handy.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
We all have busy lives, but crucially what we don't have is the same usage profiles and aesthetic tastes as others. What makes ROM A the best thing since sliced bread for Person A may make it a complete toilet for someone else.
It's a bit like buying shoes; if you send your mate out to buy some because you can't be bothered to go out to look at them and perhaps try a few on, don't be too surprised if you end up as a fashion victim with blisters.
MistahBungle said:
If you see a thread that shouldn't be, let them know and more often than not if will be dealt with.
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Click to collapse
I think that the bigger problem is with pointless posts within threads. If there was an option on the report menu for "Not constructive to conversation" or something, I would report away, and hope that people get the point that no one cares if they want to wait until someone else posts, no reason to tell us about it.
Edit: I just tried the report button for a pointless post. lets see if it works.
Gustopher said:
We all have busy lives, but crucially what we don't have is the same usage profiles and aesthetic tastes as others. What makes ROM A the best thing since sliced bread for Person A may make it a complete toilet for someone else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Where we run into a problem, however, is when roms A, B, and C all have as a description:
"Fast, Better Battery Life, and gives a reach around upon start up." Seeing the same description over and over again is as pointless as having no description. neither one tells me, the client, anything useful. This one is not a moderation problem, but a problem in communication. You spend a lot of time making your rom/kernel/widget the best it can be. Spend a little more time and tell me why I should care, why it is better than your competition.
Oh ok I have a idea! Let's all instead of using the search button just start a new thread every time! That way xda developers will be full of pointless threads that people can spend hours looking through! Great fun yes!
If I was a moderator here I think I could quite easily give you a answer in just two words...
jbarol said:
This is in reference to this thread:http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=1413086
I am reposting my response in hopes that the Moderators will read it and do something about it...
We have a problem here. There are 100s of roms, each claiming to be the best thing since sliced (ginger)bread. I, like many readers, dont have the time or know-how to check out every single rom out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better moderation is not needed (at least not because if this "problem")
I you want to find the best ROM MAKE the time to read the threads (typically the first post of the OP and the last few pages to see the current feedback is enough to get a pretty good picture) If you don´t have the time just pick a ROM based on the typical screenshots and description and try it.... if you aren´t satisfied, pick another. Most ROMS differ little in actual performance and any modification that really result in better speed/battery life ect.. are quickly adopted by the various developers.
B3311 said:
Better moderation isn't needed. Neither are lazy sods who want to be spoonfed.
Think of the work the devs have done.
Think of the hours and hours of coding and testing they do.
Think of the fact they do it for free or beer money.
Then think of someone who's posted about 30 times who cannot be bothered reading about these ROMs and making his own mind up.
Think of a whingeing brat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This pretty much says it all.
We aren't here to spoon feed anyone. If you can't find a ROM that suits you, I suggest you go elsewhere. This is not "XDA Smartphone Support", this is "XDA Developers".
What a ridiculous thread
the_scotsman said:
This pretty much says it all.
We aren't here to spoon feed anyone. If you can't find a ROM that suits you, I suggest you go elsewhere. This is not "XDA Smartphone Support", this is "XDA Developers".
What a ridiculous thread
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Click to collapse
I have to agree. If you can't spend the time needed to run a custom rom then maybe you should just stay stock. Stock roms work just fine for the average person that doesn't have the time to put into a custom rom.
It is not the moderation teams job to do your research for you. We have enough on our plates dealing with threads like this one.
Guys,
There has been so many "Which is the best ROM?" and "Which is the best kernel?" threads lately.
This is a reminder.. these kind of threads are NOT allowed.
Why are they not allowed? Well because that the best rom and kernel for me might be the worst for someone else. It's subjective. It's like asking who the hottest girl in the world is. Or which sports car is the best. If you ask 100 people you will get 100 different answers.
The best advice is to try them all and figure out which one is best for YOU and YOUR needs. Not based on what's best for someone else.
I have just been closing these threads but I'm going to start to hand out official warnings if it continues.
I understand the moral conundrum in saying that A is better than thing B, such things are not subjective but can be substantiated through facts. You can disallow saying that one or the other is better with idiotic posts "because lolz its awesome", but any other comparison is empiric and valid. The one and only thing this does not apply is aesthetics of themes.
Please stop the stupefying XDA as a community for the sake of political correctness with such half though-through policies, it's destroying this site as a real resource.
AndreiLux said:
I understand the moral conundrum in saying that A is better than thing B, such things are not subjective but can be substantiated through facts. You can disallow saying that one or the other is better with idiotic posts "because lolz its awesome", but any other comparison is empiric and valid. The one and only thing this does not apply is aesthetics of themes.
Please stop the stupefying XDA as a community for the sake of political correctness with such half though-through policies, it's destroying this site as a real resource.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you understand how many reports we get on threads where someone is asking "what's the best rom?", "What's the best rom for battery life", "what's the best kernel?"
The rules state these types of threads are not allowed. I just enforcing the rule. If you do not agree with the rule then I suggest you take it up with the Admins that make the rules not the mods that are enforcing them. I know I close at least 5 of these types of threads a day and it's our community that also finds them undesirable and this is why when there is a thread like this created tons of users report them.
These ARE subjective because what is the best for one person sucks for another. It depends on the person's needs and preferences. For some people AOSP based roms are best, for others not so much. The only way someone can find what the best rom for them is to try them all.
And I must disagree. Cluttering our community with pointless threads is doing more damage to the community than enforcing the rules..
As I have said, if you have a problem with the rules then take it up with the higher powers not the person enforcing them
AndreiLux said:
I understand the moral conundrum in saying that A is better than thing B, such things are not subjective but can be substantiated through facts. You can disallow saying that one or the other is better with idiotic posts "because lolz its awesome", but any other comparison is empiric and valid. The one and only thing this does not apply is aesthetics of themes.
Please stop the stupefying XDA as a community for the sake of political correctness with such half though-through policies, it's destroying this site as a real resource.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhm, has anyone so far ever posted a comment/thread where one's saying that rom A is better than rom B and then provided facts? Then again, who'd bother reading them? The average XDA user probably doesn't even care about a wall-post of differences between roms.
I don't see the problem as asking is A better than B .
The problem is ten posts a day every day of the week asking the exact same question does this forum no good at all .
In that respect why not a specific whats the best rom only thread for all such posts .
But to be honest i don't believe that will stop the multiple whats the best posts .
jje
Comparing ROMs is relatively useless because I dare say there isn't one person in this entire XDA community that has their device setup EXACTLY like yours (ROM, KERNEL, Apps, etc.). So because of that the comparisons become subjective and usually someone tries to grow their epeen and then it becomes null and void.
An acceptable alternative would be a "ROM Comparison Thread" - but that will just become convoluted.
jerdog said:
Comparing ROMs is relatively useless because I dare say there isn't one person in this entire XDA community that has their device setup EXACTLY like yours (ROM, KERNEL, Apps, etc.). So because of that the comparisons become subjective and usually someone tries to grow their epeen and then it becomes null and void.
An acceptable alternative would be a "ROM Comparison Thread" - but that will just become convoluted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if two people had their phones set up completely alike, they would still perform differently. The quality of the chip silicon can vary a whole lot. Most noticeable in what a user can stably overclock to.
JJEgan said:
I don't see the problem as asking is A better than B .
The problem is ten posts a day every day of the week asking the exact same question does this forum no good at all .
In that respect why not a specific whats the best rom only thread for all such posts .
But to be honest i don't believe that will stop the multiple whats the best posts .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Solution:
jerdog said:
An acceptable alternative would be a "ROM Comparison Thread" - but that will just become convoluted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Do this single thing in a substantive and quality manner and sticky it, let it be editorialized, and you have your problem gone.
Ever since this forum opened every single comparison thread has been bombarded with posts complaining the thread goes against the rules, rather than there being any kind of problem with the thread content itself, that's why it devolves into a cluster-**** and the moderators get that many reports. 8 out of 10 posts are about people bashing on the OP for being an idiot because he's "going against the rule". The rule itself is causing more problems than the people asking these questions in the first place.
jerdog said:
Comparing ROMs is relatively useless because I dare say there isn't one person in this entire XDA community that has their device setup EXACTLY like yours (ROM, KERNEL, Apps, etc.). So because of that the comparisons become subjective and usually someone tries to grow their epeen and then it becomes null and void.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because you're doing a subjective comparison again. A objective comparison is saying:
ROM A has these and these features, those features bring advantage X and Y.
Kernel 1 has feature Z and therefore is more battery efficient than kernels who don't have Z.
I don't understand why this is so hard to do. Educate the masses.
AndreiLux, honestly, who the hell cares?
Theshawty said:
AndreiLux, honestly, who the hell cares?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that question for real? Is this what one gets for trying to improve the quality of the community? ... I'm sorry then and I'll leave, if nobody really cares.
AndreiLux said:
Is that question for real? Is this what one gets for trying to improve the quality of the community? ... I'm sorry then and I'll leave, if nobody really cares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't leave. I'm nobody.
i like Best rom Posts,it make my stomach vibrate and make me try many Roms to be convinced.
nhariamine said:
i like Best rom Posts,it make my stomach vibrate and make me try many Roms to be convinced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your stomach vibrating is a sign of gas held in for too long, or hunger.
If you want to change roms, the best thing to do is read the different rom threads and try the ones that interest you. Don't start a whole new thread.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
kofiaa said:
Your stomach vibrating is a sign of gas held in for too long, or hunger.
If you want to change roms, the best thing to do is read the different rom threads and try the ones that interest you. Don't start a whole new thread.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahahaha,nice!!!:laugh:
I guess we can try that. having a dedicated thread for it. We will see how that goes. If we are making one for ROMS we should also make one for Kernels because there are a lot of "what is the best kernel" threads as well.. If it lessens the amount of threads we get on the matter significantly then good.
If one of you guys wants to create the OP (Looks at JJEgan) that would be great and then I'll sticky them. If not I can create them but I wont have the time until tomorrow night
I like the idea of a sticky, however I have always had a reservation about these things as they encourage "fanboyism" for want of a better phrase, this could in turn lead to the same old exchange of idiotic tit for tat.
Furthermore, and more importantly, the whole thing could be deemed as incredibly disheartening for up and coming, but less experienced, developers.
So yes, I agree that Andrielux has a good point about objective analysis of what a Rom provides, but I remain sceptical as to whether it would work out there, in the cesspool that was, at one time, an invigorating and intellectually stimulating environment.
XDA really has become a victim of its own success in that respect sadly.
I'm just grateful to ALL developers for their great work and to XDA for sharing it with us......and to all the staff who battle on trying to keep this place orderly and decent.
AndreiLux said:
Is that question for real? Is this what one gets for trying to improve the quality of the community? ... I'm sorry then and I'll leave, if nobody really cares.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely correct. This forum stands to educate the masses. The more people are educated, more good will come about. Having said that, everyone is on different levels of knowledge. We have to be able to educate the new users in an efficient and effective way. Having a thread that debates the merits and faults of different ROMs is an excellent way to educate people, Heck, I don't have time to test 100 different ROMs and I don't want to read thousands of pages of threads to find the BEST ROM.
Who Cares? I do. You know what's ironic? Check out FORUM RULE #10.
10. Help others if you can.
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. DON'T BE SHY.
AndreiLux said:
ROM A has these and these features, those features bring advantage X and Y.
Kernel 1 has feature Z and therefore is more battery efficient than kernels who don't have Z.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So. Is ROM A the best one out there?
Sorry. I couldn't resist. You make very valid points.
Sent from the Mars Rover.
JohnnyEpic said:
So. Is ROM A the best one out there?
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Click to collapse
I like B better because of the battery life.
Honestly though, Omega v27 is the beast of all ROMs and the stats prove it.
Personally, I always use stock but over 4 million thread visits impressive.
slaphead20 said:
I like the idea of a sticky, however I have always had a reservation about these things as they encourage "fanboyism" for want of a better phrase, this could in turn lead to the same old exchange of idiotic tit for tat.
Furthermore, and more importantly, the whole thing could be deemed as incredibly disheartening for up and coming, but less experienced, developers.
So yes, I agree that Andrielux has a good point about objective analysis of what a Rom provides, but I remain sceptical as to whether it would work out there, in the cesspool that was, at one time, an invigorating and intellectually stimulating environment.
XDA really has become a victim of its own success in that respect sadly.
I'm just grateful to ALL developers for their great work and to XDA for sharing it with us......and to all the staff who battle on trying to keep this place orderly and decent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Admins and mods, I'm going to have to completely agree with Slappy here. You're going to encourage fanboy-ism and this will lead to a lot of hate and division in the community.
Do you know what's going on right now? We have threads for specific ROMs where no one bashes each other. People stay with their fellow custom ROM users. If you merge all these warring nations into one thread, I'm afraid you're going to have to deal with a lot more than closing a couple of threads each week. People are going to swear non-stop and abuse specific custom ROM developers (which will be harmful for the developers and the substantial amount of hard work they're putting into their work day and night).
I've created the General Thread for that very reason- if people have issues/questions/problems, then they can come and discuss it with all of the helpful lads in the General Thread instead of making an inordinate amount of extra threads that clutter this great community.
Is it just me or does everyone else think the mods are being way more hurtful than helpful with the way they are monitoring the threads here. I haven't ever seen a group of mods close threads and clean threads so much or so randomly in my life.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
Ah NO, they are not. They are doing their job and are clearing out the junk. Actually, I would like them to be more aggressive in their cleaning of the useless posts. For example the one that type I am pressing F5 till root hits. Really what does that have to do with obtaining root? Nothing and when the Mods delete those type of posts they do all of us a favor.
This is a forum. Expecting people to discuss things and not go off on tangents is like expecting a fat guy and an all you can eat buffet to only eat one french fry.
If you have to constantly close threads and clean them there are two problems:
1. You are not removing trouble posters that use personal attacks and act like asses
2. Your expectations for how much control you should expect on a forum is out of whack
I think both of those are the problems, not any actual discussion. This site is a far cry from what it used to be.
Moderators are trained on how to do their jobs. But what you don't know, is most of that is up to them to use their best judgement. Please try to remember, moderators do not see every single post being made. We rely strongly on the members to point us to trouble. From there, it's up to the individual moderator to handle things the best way they see fit.
I encourage everyone to report anything they feel is a violation of our rules or contact me directly. My PM inbox is always open for any concerns. This goes for just about any moderator or administrator of xda. We are here to help, not be forum police. You also don't always see all sides to the story. If it seems one thread is getting a lot of attention, then there's most likely a problem there.
Hope this helps,
The Merovingian
Senior Moderator
daizoninc said:
Is it just me or does everyone else think the mods are being way more hurtful than helpful with the way they are monitoring the threads here. I haven't ever seen a group of mods close threads and clean threads so much or so randomly in my life.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
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I think it's overall quite balanced. They actually show some patience when some threads are getting out of topic, they could even more swiftly without it being shocking (There are really some threads getting completely messed up and they do a great job cleaning them up). I have seen much more arguable behaviors a few years go.
I just feel that a thread being cleaned should only be at the request of the OP period. And moderators need to use logic instead of their best judgement. Sometimes going off on a tangent is exactly what needs to happen for a developer to get an idea. All of a sudden someone is talking about Verizon FiOS and then fiber comes I to talks, from fiber the dev thinks of the food he eats, from there he remembers he had an idea at breakfast. I just feel that with the s8(+) forums specifically there are a few moderators who have gone full on post police for no reason. They have deleted nearly as much helpful information as hurtful.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
daizoninc said:
I just feel that a thread being cleaned should only be at the request of the OP period. And moderators need to use logic instead of their best judgement. Sometimes going off on a tangent is exactly what needs to happen for a developer to get an idea. All of a sudden someone is talking about Verizon FiOS and then fiber comes I to talks, from fiber the dev thinks of the food he eats, from there he remembers he had an idea at breakfast. I just feel that with the s8(+) forums specifically there are a few moderators who have gone full on post police for no reason. They have deleted nearly as much helpful information as hurtful.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lot of the time we do clean up at the request of the OP. You might be surprised about the cleaning we have done and who reported the issue. And we do use our logic. My logic might be different to your logic, and that is where our judgement comes in. We are using our judgement or common sense to try to keep the forums tidy and welcoming . But if someone other than the OP reports abuse or spamming(or any posts that are against XDA rules), we shouldn't clean those posts?
People going off on tangents is not something we generally worry too much about, but again, a lot of times the OP will report it and request we remove those posts. The other thing is, people read those threads to get whatever information they are seeking. Not everyone wants to read through pages of posts that have no relation to the subject of the thread. I'm sure there will be plenty of people who agree and disagree with that. But that is our problem, we will never keep everyone happy.
You're welcome to your opinion, but our goal as moderators is to tread the fine line between letting everyone have their say and enforcing the rules that we all agreed to when we joined.
noppy22 said:
A lot of the time we do clean up at the request of the OP. You might be surprised about the cleaning we have done and who reported the issue. And we do use our logic. My logic might be different to your logic, and that is where our judgement comes in. We are using our judgement or common sense to try to keep the forums tidy and welcoming . But if someone other than the OP reports abuse or spamming(or any posts that are against XDA rules), we shouldn't clean those posts?
People going off on tangents is not something we generally worry too much about, but again, a lot of times the OP will report it and request we remove those posts. The other thing is, people read those threads to get whatever information they are seeking. Not everyone wants to read through pages of posts that have no relation to the subject of the thread. I'm sure there will be plenty of people who agree and disagree with that. But that is our problem, we will never keep everyone happy.
You're welcome to your opinion, but our goal as moderators is to tread the fine line between letting everyone have their say and enforcing the rules that we all agreed to when we joined.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can respect that. Maybe there needs to be a double moderator system or something, where not just one moderator cleans it, but 2 or more working together. Would need more mods, but would likely result in more accurate cleaning?
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
I've been op of some big threads in the past and commend the work the mods do to clean up the threads over and over. It's not an easy job to keep up with.
I personally appreciate the effort moderators are putting here and the time they spend clearing out the junk. Every report I send is dealt with quickly.
It's not about them being "forum police"... but some sort of order has to be in place since threads get derailed, spammed and completely swamped with random discussions from time to time. A forum with no control is a mess.
TL : DR; To any mod reading this, thank you. You're doing great.
daizoninc said:
I can respect that. Maybe there needs to be a double moderator system or something, where not just one moderator cleans it, but 2 or more working together. Would need more mods, but would likely result in more accurate cleaning?
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
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To be honest, if we felt that was needed, that would be like us saying we don't trust our moderators to operate independently.
But we do. 100%. Every one of them. The current "cleaning" is more than accurate enough in our eyes.
I think noppy's response gave a good explanation of why things are done the way they are.
But if you think mods are being too heavy handed or excessive, then by all means, let us know (via private medium, not in the public forum). Provide some examples, and we will look into them. We take all feedback and complaints very seriously.
But from what you've been describing here, it seems this is more a matter of personal opinion than cold, hard over moderation.
It's difficult for those not on the moderation team to grasp just how many reports we deal with on a daily basis. (bearing in mind we have over 8 million members). Reports that get submitted by users like yourself, using the Report Post button. You'll actually find that most actions that a moderator takes on a thread are because of a report, not because of something they are doing off their own back.
daizoninc said:
I just feel that a thread being cleaned should only be at the request of the OP period. And moderators need to use logic instead of their best judgement. Sometimes going off on a tangent is exactly what needs to happen for a developer to get an idea. All of a sudden someone is talking about Verizon FiOS and then fiber comes I to talks, from fiber the dev thinks of the food he eats, from there he remembers he had an idea at breakfast. I just feel that with the s8(+) forums specifically there are a few moderators who have gone full on post police for no reason. They have deleted nearly as much helpful information as hurtful.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
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Ok, you have a point on helping, and agree sometimes a blind squirrel sometimes finds the nut. However, if you look at 99.9999% of the posts they have zero to do with the subject at hand. Again, I use my example of the multiple "I am pressing F5 till root drops". Honestly, what does that have to do with the root discussion? Nothing, so deleting them is the best thing. Also to your point, how many times does thread have to have the announcement somebody found the way to root snapdragon Galaxy S8+ by using dirtycow (which does not work by the way, but did not stop 500 people from posting they found root)? And to come full circle, the mods do not delete useful content, it is just there are some many folks with zero skill thinking their input has value when it doesn't. To thank a person hit the thanks button or donate to them. Don't waste a post on thanking them. Again to my example, no I and the other 7 billion humans that live on planet Earth do not care that you are hitting the f5 button till root drops, so don't waste a post saying so, and to the fool that bumped that post, stop. In closing, the mods in my opinion don't clean the threads enough, just because the plethora of useless posts that occur in a very short amount of time. For them to keep up it would require them to have no life, no family, no job......
It's every day bro.... "Jake Paul Voice"
I almost never have issue with a mod. I have seen a lot of cleaning and closing on the S8/+ root threads, but I show up after the fact. So I can't say whether or not if they were being excessive. I think they are doing about as well as you could expect a human to.
daizoninc said:
Is it just me or does everyone else think the mods are being way more hurtful than helpful with the way they are monitoring the threads here. I haven't ever seen a group of mods close threads and clean threads so much or so randomly in my life.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
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No i think they should actually be far more agressive in some ways
There are WAY too many lazy, entitled no search/ no read idiots in here now than 5 years ago when i got here.
Back then you were expected to attempt to help your self first...exhaust all options then ask a question or ask for help.
This new generation of lazy users make it miserable for those of us that are not lazy, always read the OP and always search before asking stupid/repeat questions.
I know the mods have been told to be show more leniency then in previous years but i think that is not the way to go.
And god forbid you actually tell someone directly they are lazy or quote the rules to them...then you end up with an infraction. In real life i dont hold my tongue or tolerate lazy people .i shouldnt have to on a web forum... telling the truth (in a reasonably respectful way) is a good thing last time i checked.
Its sickening honestly.
I miss the old days...
That said the mods have an almost impossible task in front of them. I respect and appreciate every single one of them...even the one who gave me infractions lol.
sent from my Note FE, S8 plus, S7 edge or S6
Now that root is released, I feel like the mod team will have many more reports to deal with, tons more off topic posts and clutter, the stepped up response is called for in my insight. You've done an outstanding job, and I don't think I need to tell you that guys. Thank you.
Xda always been full of Snitches and nazi mods
vanemburghj said:
Ah NO, they are not. They are doing their job and are clearing out the junk. Actually, I would like them to be more aggressive in their cleaning of the useless posts. For example the one that type I am pressing F5 till root hits. Really what does that have to do with obtaining root? Nothing and when the Mods delete those type of posts they do all of us a favor.
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Doing their job is all they need to do and not whine about it and close threads. Their job is not to try to get ppl from making useless posts, they are not teachers or guides. Their job is to clean and moderate. Likely done better by sentient programs or trained gibbons. Open the progress threads and moderate Instead of holding the threat of closing threads over users heads like petulent bullies. They need to check their egos and just execute the functions of their job title. Now this may mean actually doing more work, spending more time doing moderator things....and that's the rub isn't it. They do not want to be bothered with moderating, they just want the ego boost they think the title entitles them to.
daizoninc said:
Is it just me or does everyone else think the mods are being way more hurtful than helpful with the way they are monitoring the threads here. I haven't ever seen a group of mods close threads and clean threads so much or so randomly in my life.
Sent from my Galaxy S8+ Verizon
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Just wondering: what has this post to do with the Samsung Galaxy S8+?
Is there no other part of the forum to discuss this?
cc: @The Merovingian @noppy22 @the_scotsman
henklbr said:
Just wondering: was has this post to do with the Samsung Galaxy S8+?
Is there no other part of the forum to discuss this?
cc: @The Merovingian @noppy22 @the_scotsman
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The post you quoted asks about:
with the way they are monitoring the threads here
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so I would say the OP is talking about "here" the s8+ forum....