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Appologies for duplicating this post here and on the accessories forum but needed a quick answer!
Anyone technically minded who can answer this....
I am using a HTC Touch Pro mains charger for my X1 (as it has a longer cable) which charges the X1 fully.
I did notice the back of the X1 getting a little warm, so double checked the outputs on the original X1 charger and the TouchPro one.
X1 = 5v 700mA
TouchPro = 5v 1A
Is this likely to be a problem?
You should definately not mix power adapters like that. On the other hand they both use mini-USB plugs so if they follow the USB standard (Battery Charging Specification) you are okay. The spec allows for up to 1,8 A, but that does not mean the X1 can take it.
I would have rather bought an extension cable for the X1 charger. Then you are safe _if_ anything happens and you damage your X1. :|
If you need a longer cable, just plug in a standard USB extension cable It will work perfectly and you can extend to plenty of meters if you need to.
Regarding the use of the 1A charger, I don't think it will be that much of a problem, but I wouldn't count on it to cause no problems either. The battery getting warm is not that odd when charging, as batteries generally generate heat when they get charged. The fact that it gets warmer with the 1A, instead of the 0.7A charger, is just because you charge the battery quicker, which in turn causes more heat. You should keep it mind though that heat is a bad thing for LiIon batteries like the X1 uses. Having it being warm reduces lifetime quicker then when it's cool.
maedox said:
You should definately not mix power adapters like that. On the other hand they both use mini-USB plugs so if they follow the USB standard (Battery Charging Specification) you are okay. The spec allows for up to 1,8 A, but that does not mean the X1 can take it.
I would have rather bought an extension cable for the X1 charger. Then you are safe _if_ anything happens and you damage your X1. :|
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Thanks for your help. I assumed - like you - that USB was USB in regards to power output. But I will take your advice and get an extension and stop using the old one.
Cheers
.
What I've seen on battery charging on mobile phones is that they have an internal intelligent charging system, at least the Siemens and Wavecom systems I've been using.
LiIon batteries are normally charged using constant voltage/constant current until a certain voltage level is reached, ~4.2V for 3.6V batteries. Then the charge current is reduced with a constant voltage until the charging current reaches zero. This implies that from a 5V charger there has to be some sort of internal charging system to make it work.
If you get a charger for USB it is the internal system that handles the current rate, not the charger. The specs on the charger shows the maximum current possible, not the charger's constant charge rate.
So if the phone's internal charging system thinks it's ok with 1A it will use it, but as mentioned earlier, it will produce more heat, but with a faster charging.
Though USB charging specs is limited to 1.8A, most charging circuits is possible to set to less current, with some part charging the battery, the rest powering the phone.
on8a said:
What I've seen on battery charging on mobile phones is that they have an internal intelligent charging system, at least the Siemens and Wavecom systems I've been using.
LiIon batteries are normally charged using constant voltage/constant current until a certain voltage level is reached, ~4.2V for 3.6V batteries. Then the charge current is reduced with a constant voltage until the charging current reaches zero. This implies that from a 5V charger there has to be some sort of internal charging system to make it work.
If you get a charger for USB it is the internal system that handles the current rate, not the charger. The specs on the charger shows the maximum current possible, not the charger's constant charge rate.
So if the phone's internal charging system thinks it's ok with 1A it will use it, but as mentioned earlier, it will produce more heat, but with a faster charging.
Though USB charging specs is limited to 1.8A, most charging circuits is possible to set to less current, with some part charging the battery, the rest powering the phone.
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Thanks very much that's very informative.
I am wondering if the X1 has this internal intelligent charging system you mentioned. Would be useful to know.
Actually the mA ratings are what the charger can deliver. Not what they actually will deliver. A 700mA rated charger will supply up to 700mA if asked for by the device. This is a two way thing. The charger side will never provide more than it's maximum rating, it's a built in safety thing. The charged side should never ask for more than it can handle, providing that it is a well built piece of electronics. I trust the X1 to be well built on this. USB standards rate a maximum of 500mA for high power devices. The X1 does adapt and thus will charge slower.
Glad this is being discussed; as my X1 is a UK model, I don't have a US wall charger.
I found some on monoprice.com, see under the Power to USB section at the bottom:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=103&cp_id=10311
They have 3 varieties:
High-Speed WALL Power to USB Female Converter (1000mah) - Black
High-Speed WALL Power to USB Female Converter (1000mah) - White
[**cant tell a discernable difference between those two, but one is larger...**]
WALL Power to USB Female CHARGER Converter - Black (500mah)
[**many people complaining about this not charging their devices; either it really does suck or they didnt get one with enough output**]
I WONT kill the phone picking up a 1000mah?
Anyone else in my situation needing a new US charger, this site has great prices on this stuff... these adapters are under 2 bucks, and USB cables are super-cheap too!
Hey..
I want to make a pretty big backup battery for my TD2 or any other device that charges using a USB port.
I have 8 recharchable AA batteries (1,5V and 1800 mAh each) and want them in pairs off 4.
So two pairs off 6V packs and a total off 3600mAh.
But how do i acctually make this? Because i want to just plug it in some power socket so it will recharge the backup battery..
And when i need it. i just plug my phone in the backup battery so it will recharge and last ALLOT longer.
generally speaking, good socket adapters and car adapters (original ones too) have an automatic switch off when the battery gets fully charged. failing to do so can dramatically reduce the life of your battery. i think a safer (and more elegant too) solution is to buy a spare battery.
Sounds like hard work to me
Would something like this be better, I know its not as powerful as what you are proposing, and it has the cut out built into it as well.
PowerMonkey Classic
or get what I have which is this
Powermonkey Explorer
Highly recommended
PS Topic probably in wrong place, Accessories better place !?!
It charges via USB, mains, solar, has extra connectors for alot of devices.
Just my input...
If it was my problem, I would make a very simple constant current charger using a disused 19V laptop supply (doesn't everyone have one?) and a series resistor. The resistor value should be calculated from the charging current. You shouldn't go for a high current because you would need to cut off the charging when complete, or the cells would get very hot and be damaged. Proper chargers do this, but it takes a relatively complex circuit to manage the charge.
A low charge current (less than a tenth of the cell capacity) is good for cell lifespan and is safe to leave connected for a while even when the charge is complete without damaging the cell. The only drawback is a long charge time. I would select a current which charges fully in about 22 hours, so you put it on charge at a certain time and remove it next day at the same time - easy to remember.
With a 19V supply and a battery pack voltage of about 5 volts, a current of 200mA would need a resistor of value 70 Ohms - the nearest actual value is 68 ohms. Power rating would need to be 3W absolute minimum, try to get a 5W part. Your 3600mA pack should be charged after 22-24 hours. If your old laptop supply is different from 19V, you need to calculate the resistor accordingly. A low voltage supply wouldn't be suitable, because the charging current would vary too much.
Two points: Be sure to get the polarity of the laptop supply correct, and always have the supply connected to the mains when the battery pack is connected to it (otherwise the battery pack will try to put a current back through the supply, which it might not like!). Or you could incorporate a series 1A diode to protect against that happening.
I'm using a very simple supply like this to charge a 5v pack over 24 hours (it's from a bluetooth speaker - the internal charging circuit blew up) and it's perfect - I expect a long lifespan for the cells.
It's worth pointing out that putting 2 banks of cells in parallel, as you intend to, is not ideal unless the cells are matched, but in practice it shouldn't matter much.
there are 5v regulators u can buy to make your circuit work at 5v what is nice about that is that i can step up and step down voltages if the voltage fluctuates(battery power levels), btw the phones do the auto shutoff when the battery is full not the charger, because charger does not have a feedback system to read battery levels. Why do u think there is 3 or some times 4 connections on a battery and not 2
the problems u might encounter are amp levels due to long term charging but 4 1800mA AA battery will do a good charge for your phone
anyway here is a 5v reg from radioshack as referrence
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062599
jngtt said:
there are 5v regulators u can buy to make your circuit work at 5v what is nice about that is that i can step up and step down voltages if the voltage fluctuates(battery power levels), btw the phones do the auto shutoff when the battery is full not the charger, because charger does not have a feedback system to read battery levels. Why do u think there is 3 or some times 4 connections on a battery and not 2
the problems u might encounter are amp levels due to long term charging but 4 1800mA AA battery will do a good charge for your phone
anyway here is a 5v reg from radioshack as referrence
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062599
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I might be misunderstanding you, but if you mean charging the cells from a 5v regulator, that would be a bad idea. NiCad or NiMH cells shouldn't and can't be charged from a constant voltage source. When you start charging the current would be too high (the 7805 would probably switch itself off) and the charge would never finish either, as 4 cells in series have an endpoint voltage of about 5.6 - 6.0V.
But perhaps you didn't mean that... (in which case apologies for butting in)
Pete_S said:
I might be misunderstanding you, but if you mean charging the cells from a 5v regulator, that would be a bad idea. NiCad or NiMH cells shouldn't and can't be charged from a constant voltage source. When you start charging the current would be too high (the 7805 would probably switch itself off) and the charge would never finish either, as 4 cells in series have an endpoint voltage of about 5.6 - 6.0V.
But perhaps you didn't mean that... (in which case apologies for butting in)
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The 5v regulator just sets the voltage to be 5 volts as with all usb ports and usb chargers, the HTC charger that comes with the phones pushes 2A, the usb ports on our PCs pushes 0.5A. Ampere is just current, if u think that is too much amps u can put a fuse. This is the first time someone told me constant is bad
btw do u know how cells and battery work?
Going back to the original post, Overloaded just wanted a way to recharge his proposed battery pack from the mains, if I read it correctly.
I don't see where a 7805 5V regulator fits into this, either for charging the phone (the battery pack is 5-6V and the 7805 needs at least 7V to function) or for charging the battery pack (for reasons I've already outlined).
u are right, he does not need the 5v reg, infact all he needs to do is put the battery in serise with a diode to prevent feedback and he should be fine
Slightly off topic,
I recently got hold of two 11v LiPo packs, a regulator, a fast charger and all the cable and connectors to buils a 4400 mAh power souce. At 5v this gives circa. 8800 mAh. I bought it in a model shop sale and I've wanted to play around with the setup for some time.
The two packs are to big, but one on it's own is not too bad. And they were cheap!
Quick question: can I use the N10 charger to charge my Galaxy nexus? This is the normal USB charger and not the POGO charger. The only reason that I ask is that the end that connects to the wall is significantly bigger on the nexus 10 charger than the galaxy nexus charger. Figured i would ask before I burn anything.
No problem at all.
Just look at the chargers you have.
Voltage will most likely always be 5V. Lower amps can hurt the charger but not the device.
One easy way to look at it is this:
Voltage is provided by (or pushed) by the power supply.
Amperage is taken by (or pulled) by the device being powered.
In other words, while the voltage is a constant and should match, the amperage is something that varies based on the devices need. Your computer will "pull" more amps when it's working hard than when it's not. The voltage will remain the same regardless.
The amperage rating of a power supply is the maximum number of amps that it's able to provide if needed.
Thus, as long as you replace your power supply with one that is capable of providing as much or more amps than the previous supply, you'll be fine.
Of course you can!
I use N10 charger to charge my Nexus S and I haven't problem.
Great! thanks everybody!
Hey all,
I've been using my N10 for a week now and am wondering why and if it's normal for the tablet to require 8+ hours to recharge?
I'm plugging it into the wall using a generic USB cable and non-Samsung power block. Should that matter at all?
Signed 'confused...'
Yes, the charger matters. The stock wall charger is at 2Amps, while a normal USB connection is at 0.5Amps, for example. All devices will charge more slowly on lower amperages, but since the battery of the Nexus 10 is so huge (9000mAh - about double your average laptop), charging it from 0 to 100 will be dreadfully slow, if you're not using a proper charger.
1. Are there other wall chargers with higher Amp output that are safe to use w/ the N10?
2. Is there any long term damage to the battery using a higher or lower Amp charger?
Another issue is if the charger is made for an Apple product it doesn't short the data pins so the Nexus doesn't see it as a high amperage power supply and only pulls .5 amps.
Use the OEM Samsung charger or get one of these:
Ventev r2200 AC Travel Charger, Dual 2A USB Port 110-220v With MicroUSB Cable
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BSC7FW0/ref=cm_sw_r_an_am_ap_am_us?ie=UTF8
And if you want a it to charge even faster, use a pogo cable.
Original Pogo Cable for Google Nexus 10 (25% Faster Charge) - MAGNECTOR
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D7NZLK6/ref=cm_sw_r_an_am_ap_am_us?ie=UTF8
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
garberfc said:
1. Are there other wall chargers with higher Amp output that are safe to use w/ the N10?
2. Is there any long term damage to the battery using a higher or lower Amp charger?
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Higher than 2.1 amps? Not commercially that I'm aware of, though you could always jerry rig some contraption to deliver more.
The problem is, however, that the device will not draw the extra power. A device will draw the power it can use, and no more. I haven't tested what the draw is on my Nexus 10, but on my Note 2, it never draws more than 1.8 amps (although that reading may be a little inflated and it really only draws 1.5 amps). I suspect it's more or less the same with the N10 and the stock USB cable and Samsung 2.0 amp charger. So if you went nuts and jerry rigged a 50 amp power supply to the device, it would still only draw 1.5 amps.
Note that the draw can be affected by the USB cable you use. I've seen some USB cables draw less than 500mA where the stock Samsung USB cable draws 1.8 amps.
Bottom line is that you're not going to find a wall charger above 2.1 amps as far as I know, and even if you did, it wouldn't charge the Nexus 10 any faster. The problem is what you identified in your original post -- using some plain vanilla 500mA (0.5 amp) micro USB charger that you've had lying around the house for the past several years and assuming that it should charge just as well as the stock Samsung charger. It won't, as you discovered -- the N10 will only draw about a third of what it's capable of drawing from such a charger.
Be careful buying 2.0/2.1 amp chargers from Amazon or wherever, particularly if they're identified as Samsung chargers. They're almost always counterfeit, and no better than the 500mA chargers I mentioned above.
You might also want to look into the POGO charger cable because it allows the Nexus 10 to draw virtually the full 2.0 amps from the charger rather than 1.5.
JasW said:
Higher than 2.1 amps? Not commercially that I'm aware of, though you could always jerry rig some contraption to deliver more.
The problem is, however, that the device will not draw the extra power. A device will draw the power it can use, and no more. I haven't tested what the draw is on my Nexus 10, but on my Note 2, it never draws more than 1.8 amps (although that reading may be a little inflated and it really only draws 1.5 amps). I suspect it's more or less the same with the N10 and the stock USB cable and Samsung 2.0 amp charger. So if you went nuts and jerry rigged a 50 amp power supply to the device, it would still only draw 1.5 amps.
Note that the draw can be affected by the USB cable you use. I've seen some USB cables draw less than 500mA where the stock Samsung USB cable draws 1.8 amps.
Bottom line is that you're not going to find a wall charger above 2.1 amps as far as I know, and even if you did, it wouldn't charge the Nexus 10 any faster. The problem is what you identified in your original post -- using some plain vanilla 500mA (0.5 amp) micro USB charger that you've had lying around the house for the past several years and assuming that it should charge just as well as the stock Samsung charger. It won't, as you discovered -- the N10 will only draw about a third of what it's capable of drawing from such a charger.
Be careful buying 2.0/2.1 amp chargers from Amazon or wherever, particularly if they're identified as Samsung chargers. They're almost always counterfeit, and no better than the 500mA chargers I mentioned above.
You might also want to look into the POGO charger cable because it allows the Nexus 10 to draw virtually the full 2.0 amps from the charger rather than 1.5.
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Listen to this guy.
@JasW - Wow, thanks for the information / education. It makes a LOT more sense now.
Thanks again, F
@Gearhead_ENG - Thanks for the links! I'm going to go home and scrounge through all my old chargers and see if I have more 2Amp chargers. If not, I'll be following the links again to purchase...
I don't know much about voltage and stuff, but with the 5.3v charger, I assume it's okay to use a 5v to charge the Note 3, it just might be a bit slower, correct?
Now what about using the 5.3v charger on the iPad Air? I can't find any info on its charger, or online, of what voltage it uses. will the 5.3v be too much for it or anything?
guttertrash said:
I don't know much about voltage and stuff, but with the 5.3v charger, I assume it's okay to use a 5v to charge the Note 3, it just might be a bit slower, correct?
Now what about using the 5.3v charger on the iPad Air? I can't find any info on its charger, or online, of what voltage it uses. will the 5.3v be too much for it or anything?
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It's perfectly fine to use 5v, that's standard. The voltage the wall adapter puts out is not what will determine your charge speed, its the amperage your device draws - which I believe is capped at 1800 mah for the note 3. It doesn't matter what the amperage is (it can be higher), but the note 3 will only draw 1800 mah max and lower if the source is lower. When it comes to the 5.3v charger, there's a bit of mixed information from what I've gathered. Plenty of people have used it with no problems considering .3v is a fairly small difference, but there will be some that tell you otherwise. I personally avoid 5.3v just because I have plenty of alternative chargers.
If the source is lower, it will increase the time it takes to charge. But 5.3 volts as an output will actually drop to 5 once it is loaded by your device. Just like 5 drops to about 4.7 when loaded by a device. The unloaded output of a charger is always higher than when it is connected.
It's the device that determines the amount of charge drawn, the numbers on the charger are just the max-charge it can provide. (Think of it like a car. Your engine can go up to 200Kph, but the actual speed is determined by how much you tell it to give you.)
I charge my Note 3 with my 15V Asus TF700 charger. It still only charges at the max the Note 3 can draw.
Essentially a 15V charger can safely provide the 5V, but a 5V charger can never provide the charge for a device which requires 15V.
Besides, a USB2.0 cable can't go over 5Volt anyway, so your iPad is safe.
ShadowLea said:
It's the device that determines the amount of charge drawn, the numbers on the charger are just the max-charge it can provide. (Think of it like a car. Your engine can go up to 200Kph, but the actual speed is determined by how much you tell it to give you.)
I charge my Note 3 with my 15V Asus TF700 charger. It still only charges at the max the Note 3 can draw.
Essentially a 15V charger can safely provide the 5V, but a 5V charger can never provide the charge for a device which requires 15V.
Besides, a USB2.0 cable can't go over 5Volt anyway, so your iPad is safe.
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Now I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I think you have a few facts astray here. If you can prove me wrong I'll be happy to learn since it has been awhile since I took circuits. First off your right about the device being a big factor in the rate of charge, in fact technically the charger is in the device, the wall adapter is just the source. The source will force a certain voltage, i.e. 5v or 15v, and can provide up to a certain current (amperes). The charger in the device then determines how much of this current to draw.
With all that being said, the reason you can use your asus transformer charger is because it only forces 5v unless the transformer is plugged in at which point it kicks it up to 15v. So your not actually plugging a 15v source into your n3, if it were possible you'd be on thin ice. Also, I'm pretty sure you'd be able to charge your asus via say the note 3 charger (really slow though), probably not while its turned on, but turn it off leave it plugged in for a few hours and you should see a change.
A USB cable is just a wire, if you put 5.3V on it then your device receives 5.3V (minus voldage drop due to the resistance of the cable but that's negligible unless you're using a cheap thin cable). That said, 5.3V should be within tolerance for pretty much every USB charging device out there including the iPad (which I think uses a 5.3V charger itself).
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda app-developers app
Cool, good to know I wont fry either device. Thanks for all the help
Solarenemy68 said:
If the source is lower, it will increase the time it takes to charge. But 5.3 volts as an output will actually drop to 5 once it is loaded by your device. Just like 5 drops to about 4.7 when loaded by a device. The unloaded output of a charger is always higher than when it is connected.
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Galaxy Note 3 have digital charger. so, I don't think undervolting is the case
Sent from Note 3
MILJANN said:
Galaxy Note 3 have digital charger. so, I don't think undervolting is the case
Sent from Note 3
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It's not undervoltage. The resistance "R" of the USB cable is fixed (varies from cable to cable, but is constant for any single cable), so as the current load "I" increases the voltage "V" lost across the cable also increases, according to V = I*R.
Given a 5v source, loaded to 1800 mA, you would expect to see 4.7v at the phone's end of the USB cable. The resistance of the USB cable itself comes out to around 0.1666666 Ohms in that scenario, which is a perfectly reasonable value for the gauge wire used in those cords.
CalcProgrammer1 said:
A USB cable is just a wire, if you put 5.3V on it then your device receives 5.3V (minus voldage drop due to the resistance of the cable but that's negligible unless you're using a cheap thin cable).
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Or using a long cable. With my (S5) 5.3V charger, i can finally use those 3M/10ft cables, which is really convenient for me
pizzaman79 said:
Or using a long cable. With my (S5) 5.3V charger, i can finally use those 3M/10ft cables, which is really convenient for me
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In lieu of using higher voltage chargers to use with long cables, you can also use chargers that provide more current @ 5V or, of course, lower resistance cables.
I'm afraid not. The voltage will drop too far below 5.0V, the device will not accept the offered power, no matter how high the charging current. That's both based on physics and personal experience. Resistance in cables is an issue at 10 metres, even those with high gauge copper cores.
Edit: Delete.
pizzaman79 said:
I'm afraid not. The voltage will drop too far below 5.0V, the device will not accept the offered power, no matter how high the charging current. That's both based on physics and personal experience. Resistance in cables is an issue at 10 metres, even those with high gauge copper cores.
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You are absolutely correct, however that isn't exactly what I was trying to share. I was trying to share a solution to situations where the charger cannot keep up and thus the voltage sags. I did not expect a 10metre situation. The longest I have is 5m. On my 5 metre cable, I don't notice any appreciable voltage drop from any of my chargers, so I generally consider it negligible. How much do you drop across 10 metres and at how many amps?
On a side note, I think the phone has some kind of safety when it comes to voltages. I just plugged in my 5.3V charger from my s5 into the s3 and it seemed to work fine. However, I also recently, and I only just realised this, plugged in a 7.2V supply to my S3 and though it did not charge, nothing bad seemed to happen. It was an off brand 5V USB Charger and when it died, it cranked up the voltage.
fusionstream said:
You are absolutely correct, however that isn't exactly what I was trying to share. I was trying to share a solution to situations where the charger cannot keep up and thus the voltage sags. I did not expect a 10metre situation. The longest I have is 5m. On my 5 metre cable, I don't notice any appreciable voltage drop from any of my chargers, so I generally consider it negligible. How much do you drop across 10 metres and at how many amps?
On a side note, I think the phone has some kind of safety when it comes to voltages. I just plugged in my 5.3V charger from my s5 into the s3 and it seemed to work fine. However, I also recently, and I only just realised this, plugged in a 7.2V supply to my S3 and though it did not charge, nothing bad seemed to happen. It was an off brand 5V USB Charger and when it died, it cranked up the voltage.
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The voltage drop is dependant on gauge, copper quality and length. I never measured it at both ends but i estimate 0.3-0.5 volt based on what chargers do and don't charge what phones at 10ft. Note that i mixed up ft and metres lol, my cables are 3m. At that length voltage drop is an issue for me.
7v would perhaps be fine for a 10m cable I wish we knew the tolerance range of what voltages (at the usb in) common smartphones accept.
I think the reason the galaxy tab S tablets have a 5.3volt charger is to compensate a bigger voltage drop through the longer charging cable provided.
The voltage must be the correct voltage or near to it. I think from what others have said 5.3 is near enough to 5.0Volts.
F 0.95