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The Industrial Designers Society of America recently announced their annual International Design Excellence Awards (IDEA). Microsoft had won a total of seven awards. Our Windows Phone 7 alone have won awards in three categories..The IDEA program is considered by many as the ‘Oscars’ of design competitions.. Before Windows Phone7- 3 awards the iphone was the only phone to win one award in 2008.. http://blogs.technet.com/b/next/archive/2011/06/30/microsoft-scoops-7-idea-awards-for-design-excellence.aspx
From an "out-of-the-box-experience" and usability perspective, I think that WP7 deserves such an award.
On the other hand, the lack of "pimping" options as well as the "too simple" graphics might get boring over a certain time of use.
Whatever, let´s see what Mango brings. I´ll keep my HD2 for the time being, I even went back to WinMo because I still have perfect usage for some of my paid apps - which in some important cases don´t exist for WP7 yet.
tictac0566 said:
From an "out-of-the-box-experience" and usability perspective, I think that WP7 deserves such an award.
On the other hand, the lack of "pimping" options as well as the "too simple" graphics might get boring over a certain time of use.
Whatever, let´s see what Mango brings. I´ll keep my HD2 for the time being, I even went back to WinMo because I still have perfect usage for some of my paid apps - which in some important cases don´t exist for WP7 yet.
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That is my biggest issue with it, i happen to think WP7 is amazing now, but it would be perfect if someone could make a sandboxed emulator for WM apps, the vast majority shouldnt need to many WM specific APIs. An emulator or perhaps a way to duel boot
but anyway, its about time someone has managed to cut through all the FUD and give it some respect, its been slated big time and in my opinion mostly unfairly as well! But wait, the iOS and Droid bunch will find an issue with the award, probably because a friend of a friend of a MS employee who works on customer service happened to be on the panel of judges
HP announced they are exiting the consumer biz and dumping their tablet,and smart phones claiming tablet was not successful.
I really hope WebOS gets picked up. It was starting to look promising.
Didn't the tablet just come out like a month ago? It must have really bombed.
I am not a shareholder but if I was, I would be really mad that some idiot paid 1.2 billion for something to discard it...
They can pay all the lip service they want. It is dead.
I feel sorry for any developer that has wasted time buidig apps for WebOS.
the touchpad actually seemed really cool. if i didnt get my transformer, that is the one i probably would have picked. it was smooth, and intuitive. the only thing that held it back was the small amount of apps that it had.
I'll be picking up a Touchpad in the fire sale, at a sub-$200 price it should be worth it.
It's gonna be a lot more expensive because it will become a rarity! And it's gonna be a collectible since it won't be made anymore, right? No fire sale for you! More like a water auction. ..
Hah. HAHahhaha.
I was thinking the same . Maybe be on the lookout for a dirt cheap tablet. It plays 1080 right
Nvm 720
HP's PC, tablet and phone businesses would really be in better hands if they were in any hands but HP's. HP products are generic and undistinguished. Maybe a spinoff could be a Lenovo starting with a lot more product depth. But they'll probably just part it out.
Q.Entity said:
I feel sorry for any developer that has wasted time buidig apps for WebOS.
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I alsmost did. I created an account yesterday to start learning webOS and several hours later... this. At least I didn't waste any more time.
no. WebOS needs to be shoved in a room with Android and let them do sweet love. and come up with WandroidOS...
WebOS was pretty slick with its home screen and cards. now that i think about it. android should do that. have cards that show the preview of what processes are running and just slide up to kill selected processes i know ATK, but this would be better... at least i would think so...
Frankly, I'd just open source it.
Q.Entity said:
I am not a shareholder but if I was, I would be really mad that some idiot paid 1.2 billion for something to discard it...
They can pay all the lip service they want. It is dead.
I feel sorry for any developer that has wasted time buidig apps for WebOS.
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Well if Google's recent purchase says anything they got a deal. They got all of palm's patents. Palm was a frontrunner in the touch screen PDA, gotta count for something.
I don't think WebOS is being canned all together, HP are just stopping their development on it, "discontinuing operations" as they say. I read a few articles like: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41592/hp-ditches-webos-devices-pre-touchpad
In this is states they'll explore options to optimise the value of WebOS which basically is going to be them selling/licensing it on and not keeping it exclusive to HP devices anymore. Personally this would be far better as HP want to focus on their B2B rather than B2C and obviously don't see it as profitable which it isn't as they'd need serious development to keep up with Apple. Opensource as mentioned or licensing it to manufacturers is the only way it's going anywhere. Who knows this could pick up where Meego never went. Only a few months ago there were whispers from inside HP suggesting contact had been made between Samsung and HP about use of WebOS in Samsung devices, WebOS is definitely not dead but instead this could be exactly what it needs.
On another note HP are also looking to pass off their Personal Systems Group, i.e. Desktop and Laptop business to focus on B2B. This could become the next Lenovo - IBM buyout, wonder who will take that on.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/18/hp-will-discontinue-operations-for-webos-devices/
I think what is more interesting is HP "spinning off" their PC business. Possibly dumping PCs by HP is huge, and really shows the impact of mobile devices like droid and ios. Clearly, the HP strategy to roll-your-own OS on mobile failed but Google and Apple have been great successes.
My TF from ASUS is very useful, more than I expected. So, I am interested to see who remains in a couple years.The elephant in the room is China.
Bob Smith42 said:
I think what is more interesting is HP "spinning off" their PC business. Possibly dumping PCs by HP is huge, and really shows the impact of mobile devices like droid and ios.
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+1
This is really surprising since HP is the #1 PC maker. I guess they are following IBM. Maybe Lenovo can take over HPs business.
Where is the value in WebOS
I think what we will see is that HP will auction off the patent portfolio that they acquired with the purchase of Palm. When one considers the rush from Apple, MS, and Google to buy up whatever hits the open market, it's quite possible that HP can see that the patents have more value then the long, slow slug-fest that exists in the marketplace for Tablet's and Phones. Let's not forget that Nortel's patents sold for $4.5 Billion, and Google's purchase of Motorola Mobility for $12.5 Billion
Steve Jobs is like: "All your base are belong to us!"
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
AvRS said:
I don't think WebOS is being canned all together, HP are just stopping their development on it, "discontinuing operations" as they say. I read a few articles like: http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41592/hp-ditches-webos-devices-pre-touchpad
In this is states they'll explore options to optimise the value of WebOS which basically is going to be them selling/licensing it on and not keeping it exclusive to HP devices anymore.
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I see that as simple PR spin, trying to claim a negative is a positive. They aren't just going to flat-out say "we wasted a fortune bringing a product to market, only to ditch it a month later."
Honestly, discontinuing the Touchpad just a month after it went on sale, and leaving customers with what's basically expensive, unsupported bricks which nobody wants to develop for has already generated a storm of negative publicity for HP and WebOS, and will engender a lot of ill will with customers, along with the poor word-of-mouth that will bring.
What manufacturer would want to release a WebOS device when it was already struggling to get any visibility whatsoever against Android and iOS, even before a large portion of the remaining folks that were aware of it were suddenly given a reason to despise it?
knoxploration said:
...
What manufacturer would want to release a <NAME THAT> device when it was already struggling to get any visibility whatsoever against Android and iOS, even before a large portion of the remaining folks that were aware of it were suddenly given a reason to despise it?
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Well, MS is not yet a manufacturer, but still....
Ipad3 is about to hit, and it'll have at least a 2000x1500 display. The little 4.5" android phones now have 1280x800 displays and look fabulous - plus the new ones announced at the show in January. The little 11" Macbook Air (I know, a different monster) boasts a 1400x900 display - and that was 2 years ago. And they'll get a tech refresh in April that will likely come close to doubling that. As my boss told me -- "It's all about the screen, stupid".
Half of the current run Tablets have soldered in batteries, half don't even have an SD slot. Those that do use Micro SDs and not the full SDs - which are 3x in capacity and much cheaper. The file systems are archaic, and most don't even use journaling.
Most tablets are stuck on 1GB of usable OS ram, some only 512M - circa 2007. Most come out of the factory "locked" so we can't even improve them ourselves. Any improvements are laughingly done by some pretty smart anonymous developers that are doing your job - something you should have done on the drawing board in the first place. (Give HTC an A+ for unlocking the majority of their equipment - despite the threats from ATT and Verizon lawyers). Some of the tablets are locked into cell companies contracts, and most make pitiful phones anyway.
Most are stuck on cell phone processors, with cell phone graphics chips, cell phone IO controllers, and cell phone memory controllers. None have SDDrives (Ipad3 will blow us away with those too in April - watch).
Some are narrowed down to one vendors files types for reading, and reluctantly include other reading s/w (pdfs etc) as if someone twisted their arms. And non-native formats are ALWAYS just awful on these machines (Nooks, Fires etc).
None have Linux as a base, although with enough trouble we can do it ourselves sans the majority of broken functionality (drivers don't work, bugs, lags, bluetooth, batteries etc). And most can't run in the little 1GB of RAM put in these devices anyway.
These manufacturers just don't get it. They're all about to get their collective butts kicked with the new Ipad, and they'll sit back and scratch their heads saying "Why, we didn't know you customers wanted hi-res displays - nobody told us that - it's not our fault".
Ok guys, and that includes you, Samsung. And you, Asus. And Sony and LG and HTC and all the others. You're in for the azz-kicking of your life and you were warned. You're stuck in your closed-door 3x5 room in Communist China, and your products are all ball-and-chained. Jobs was slick enough to make the China-US thing work, and it took $billions to pay off the gov'ts and build production facilities. He made it look easy - but that certainly doesn't mean just anybody can copy that same manufacturing model and make it work as well as Apple did.
It'll take you about 6 months to even come to terms with your incompetence, re-design this mess, and production is another few months after after testing. In the meantime, iPad3 will dominate for the majority of 2012. So maybe next Christmas we'll see some decent Android tablets, or at least the announcements.
Problem is, is you're terrified. You're afraid to do anything similar to what Steve did. You're scared you'll be fired next day. You have neither the capital nor the balls, nor the competence to produce decent equipment. So if I were you I'd just give it up until October - that'll give you ~1/2 year of humility to get your act together. In the meantime, please don't put out yet ANOTHER 1024x768 tablet with promises of OS upgrades someday on the shelves with fanfare. Besides, the Samsung Note cellphone makes a much better Tablet than anything you've produced to date
I can't agree more with what you posted. But posting this here, will do nothing to make things change. Also I know it isn't your intent, but your post does sound like "apple fan boy". I know that's not what your saying, its just the way it comes across.
What made HTC re-think their bootloader policy? Public/User/Developer pressure.
Create a Facebook group and get the word out. I'm all for better quality, more developer friendly devices.
I suggest Facebook as XDA has only 4 million registered users, Facebook has 845 active Million (Source)
Boy, you're right. That did sound like a SJ fanboy now that I re-read it. Thanks so much for the reflection which was right on.
So good insight - the point being that once again Apple has whipped the majority of open source into submission. Once again. And it's just as pointless this time as it has been in the past. This didn't HAVE to happen. The show in Jan should have be way ahead of Apple's power curve and beat them at their own game. That was the Android opportunity. Instead, we got things like a Razr with a bigger battery, and a boatload of maybe type announcements.
Announcements like OS upgrades - the Achilles heel of Android offerings. "Buy this now and we promise to upgrade it next week - we promise - ok"? Sign here.
Somebody mentioned on another forum that some decent quads were supposed to hit the streets around iPad3 time, I sure hope so. But my point is that now Android may be WAY behind, quad, duos, 8x or even matrixed memory. It's hard enough competing with Apple daily, much less when the judges let the Apple horses out of the gate 4 months ahead of all the rest.
A Quad? Well, cool. But what kind of quad? How about Intel? How about RISC? How about 6 or 7A batteries? How about USB3? How about flexible screens? How about firewire or even a fiber standard? But our bragging points over the holidays were these dockable semi-keyboard dual unit thingies multi-part gadgets, sigh.
Actually my point was despite Apple's reign on this whole market we Androiders' have got the best people. We've got the best engineers. The best scientists. We've got the best coders. But it's aggravating that whenever we get a head of steam, we kick our feet on the table, light up a cigar and sure enough - 6 months later Apple sneaks in the back door and forecloses on us. With all the legal fanfare and international press due such an event. These little Androids are just too good to be tossed under the bus because of no-vision like this.
You know, now that we're playing around way up in the jetstream with the big boys, we're now flying into a 200kt headwind here. Not that Apple is already enough of a headache. But NOW we've got the dam cellphone companies so tangled in greed that some feel we may as well just land till the wind dies down. Oh boy, we've got LTE with 2GB caps, with entire rooms full of cellphone company staffers (mostly in India) writing code to catch us busting limits. It's nuts.
In any event, let's don't strut around thinking that since we Android-ers are much more realistic and even sharper than the iPod crowd, that we've naturally got the lead. We don't. Blame it on Google for not policing Android maybe. Or maybe the platforms. Or the manufactures' them selves. Blame isn't the point - the point is they're about to kick our azzes again regardless of fault
Hmm, /some/ points, but I /have/ to correct a few misunderstandings...
ARM is RISC. Saying same as 'cell phone processors' isn't really fair as those cell phone processors are going to be used for the WIN8 tablets (and I suspect Apple's main OS possibly too). Something that used to trundle along at a pedestrian's pace is now capable of great visual/sound processing, decent speed in the UI, background FTP'ing, all whilst using GPS to determing where you are as you yell over the phone (using bluetooth).
Specs for iPad3 are still unknown, probably overflated, and when the devices DO land, probably missing some obvious stuff Android devices already have but WILL be there for the next version! go go goodteam upgrades!
Screens I think have hit the 'good enough for anything' rez, we're going to see varieties of designs, but that's where Android is doing great on different styles. It may have been a bit faffy for devs to make sure their apps work at various sizes/densities, but it'll pay off eventually. It's a problem Windows machines solve easily enough, and eventually, if Apple DO want to offer more choice, something they'll need to master too. There'll be bigger/faster gfx chips able to pump out more triangles, and as you correctly say, the memory busses could do with a bit more oomph to help that, but this are all problems solved on the desktop, and the chip manufacturers are doing a great job bringing faster speeds with lower power to better looking displays. Rez? Probably not going to change that much, but the contrast/ability to clearly see outdoors using these things? that'll get a bit of a bump I think yet.
I'm with you on the SD slot. Wish there were more devices using the larger slot, would give more upgrade room later. What we've got works fine for pure memory though, it's just additional storage. As to filesystems? Meh, what we've got there is fine, looks like a few people are switching to ext4, but it's a decent filesystem, battle tested and improved.
PDF's/SWF's/doc's, there's apps to handle any of that, if you even need to edit them. Tablets are great for readonly viewing of these things. I'd hate to spend too long creating too many big documents, but whatever I create on the PC should be available, and so far, it is. We'll see what Microsoft does to file formats in the future, I think with Win8 and having MSOffice come with ARM tablets, we'll see MS doing what MS do best, screwing everyone else and forcing upgrades.
None have Linux as a base? Uhm... there's a Linux kernal running away there on all the Android Tablets. Though I'd like to see the Android fork merge back one day, I don't fully understand the need for the locks to make Android fork instead of using/adapting how Linux already did that, but hope something can be done to bring it back home to the main tree.
Hirez screens, price, availability, demand. If there was an Android Tablet today offering 3kx3k, but cost 1200bucks? It'd be niche. Alas, in this world, it takes Apple to release and demo before people 'get it', and manufactures accept they need to ramp up production, for the demand. Androids been pushing up the rez, the OS supports it, the hardware can run it now, and prices aren't too off the chart, I see them coming down in price. Again, no-one knows for sure upcoming rez specs for the iPad3, the top end Android tablets (of which the latest Prime has top rez I think?) could be above/match what's coming from Cupertino.
I'm with you on the Note too. I got the Samsung Galaxy Tab that I wanted to use as a phone/tablet combo, it's taken until ICS to /really/ make it smooth to use, and the phone functionality being killed in the US was just stupid. It was a mistake that they're not making with the Note it appears, that really should have been released 6-9months ago in the US, even with a lower spec chip. The move to tabphones/phonelets? has been obvious. (and also makes me wonder if, despite Jobs saying no to it, if Apple WILL release a bigger phone/smaller tablet.). There's an obvious demand for that sort of size, it really does give you the best of both worlds.
Some challenging points you bring up, look forward to further thoughts sir!
andyharney said:
I can't agree more with what you posted. But posting this here, will do nothing to make things change. Also I know it isn't your intent, but your post does sound like "apple fan boy". I know that's not what your saying, its just the way it comes across.
What made HTC re-think their bootloader policy? Public/User/Developer pressure.
Create a Facebook group and get the word out. I'm all for better quality, more developer friendly devices.
I suggest Facebook as XDA has only 4 million registered users, Facebook has 845 active Million (Source)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.groubal.com/htc-bootloaders-and-nand/
Need i say any more
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
buckwheat.phd said:
Waaaah
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Waaaaaaah.
I was reading an article on Android Police the other day entitled Why Android's Greatest Threat Isn't Apple - It's Microsoft.
I think the article has a lot of merit - the author could quite well be spot on.
I don't know about anyone else but I've been so focused on the Google and Apple recently that I didn't even stop to think about where Microsoft has been lately and what they've been up to.
Everyday there is something in the news about Google and/or Apple - their new products, services, another lawsuit or otherwise - there is always something. As for Microsoft, in comparison there is virtually nothing - or at least nothing of great interest.
All of sudden, out of no where, Microsoft announces the release of Surface. A day or two later, Windows Phone 8.
Surface, from what I've seen and read about it so far looks quite promising. Whether it's an iPad killer, or even whether it will make any dint at all in the tablet market is yet to be seen but in any case, I think it stands a good chance.
Windows Phone 8 is what's really grabbing my attention. The more I read about it the more intrigued I am to actually get my hands on one and test it out.
I've been a die hand Android/Google fan for a few years now and absolutely love Google's products and services - I never thought I would be dragged from them. There is something about Windows Phone 8, and even Microsoft in general recently that is causing me to pay great attention to what they are up to.
Do you think that Microsoft is a force to be reckoned with? If they play the game correctly, do you think we could see Microsoft taking on Apple and Google with brute force?
Obviously Microsoft is going to have to work damn hard to put even a dint in the tablet and smart phone market at the moment but if executed correctly, I think they have real potential to seriously cause some damage and shake up the market to a great extent.
I'm just throwing a few random thoughts and ideas out there. I could be way off and the release of Surface and Windows Phone 8 wont make one bit of difference at all. Time will tell I guess.
Your thoughts?
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
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slapshot30 said:
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
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I totally agree with this. As a show of good faith, MS should allow early adopters to trade phones when the new ones come out. Something like $100 credit for the Lumia 710, $200 for the 800, $300 for the 900 etc.
But they would never do that.
slapshot30 said:
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
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The only thing I don't agree is with the android part. Ics is on so few phones. Mostly only new ones are getting (especially moto phones). Unofficially yeah a lot of android phones have gotten Ics but officially not much.
I'm waiting for an mobile os as good as a desktop/laptop os. The hardware is better then my first real computer (I mean my windows me my first computer was runing windows 3.1 on a 486).
I would love to see that but for now I can only dream.
Sent from my DROID X2 using XDA
I think Microsft is in full panic mode. The Iphone/Ipad and Android devices have shown the average consumer that they dont need Windows any more. Microsoft is scrambling to unify their interface so that they can hang on to curent customers. WP7/7.5 was a stopgap mesure to introduce the UI but fill the void while they readied Windows 8. unfourtunatly it might already be too late as the consumer market moves to Android and IOS and Windows 7 is looking like its going to be XP's second comming. (corporate use which is just starting to adopt win 7 will hang on to it for the next 15 years like XP) Windows 8 will just kinda pop in and out like Vista did. wich is good for the consumer becaus finally after 20 years of windows being the only game in town we will have choice. the big thing i think Microsoft missed and Google is just getting is the the secret to IOS's sccess was the content not the device itself. Apple got it all going in the 2003 with Itunes music store.
I used to be a WM man.....
....Until they stopped supporting it, then I went over to Android and never looked back, I would never trust Microsoft again, I can see the same thing happening again if they deem there is not enough profit in it for them.
densetsu86 said:
The only thing I don't agree is with the android part. Ics is on so few phones. Mostly only new ones are getting (especially moto phones). Unofficially yeah a lot of android phones have gotten Ics but officially not much.
I'm waiting for an mobile os as good as a desktop/laptop os. The hardware is better then my first real computer (I mean my windows me my first computer was runing windows 3.1 on a 486).
I would love to see that but for now I can only dream.
Sent from my DROID X2 using XDA
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The point I was emphasizing was that MS abandoned literally every previous phone. The Lumia was a flagship that just came out a few months ago. Thats like the HTC One X not getting a new software update if it were to come the next few months. Anyone who recently signed a contract for a WP7 I feel sincerely sorry for them.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
I agree that Microsoft has made some mistakes, especially with the upgrade fiasco because that was one of the claimed benefits to Microsoft, that like apple Microsoft controlled the update process and surely if you bought a phone you would see the newest update.
Although that doesn't bother me so much as I haven't gotten a wp7 device to get shafted. Wp8 does look intriguing. Especially the the amount that the mobile and pc operating share code. Hell directX support would make games awesome. However, one thing that after going from windows mobile and android that I don't see myself doing without, is the possibility to side load and use a file explorer. Without that I don't see myself using a smart phone is without that. It's just less pc like to me. If that was possible, Wp8 would look very promising. But heres to Microsoft riding Apple's coattails.
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I have been intrigued by windows phone 7 for a while now but I held back from getting one for one reason...windows 8 or whatever they were gonna call it. Basically I wanted to sit back and see how they were gonna further develop the platform to real big maturity.
The os itself looks really promising and smooth and has a lot of potential. I love the idea of live tiles and the metro UI. I'm quite sure I will be getting a windows 8 device and it won't be a PC first off either! Perhaps a tablet of smartphone.
I think windows is indeed perhaps the biggest threat to android in the long term. Unless apple really bring some innovation and make some changes to that plain boring iOS user interface. But yes windows phone 8 looks awesome and has loads and loads of potential.
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I feel that android and iOS in the phone industry will always be stable, people don't need to photoshop something or do something that requires a laptop or desktop on their cellphones. I do however believe android's and iOS's greatest threats is windows 8 on tablets whether its arm based or x86/x64 based just because its a better purchase, you have a laptop when you need it and a tablet when your on the go, that's one of the reasons why I replaced my laptop with the acer w500 tablet
PC for gaming : Windows
PC for general : Linux Mint
Tablet : iPad and Touchpad running CM9
Phone : S2 so Android with plenty of ROM options.
Would I switch to a Windows 8 phone? No because Microsoft are now so far behind Google and Apple it hurts.
Windows? Windied more like.
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slapshot30 said:
They're screwing over everyone who recently bought into them, namely the Lumia 900 crowd. I can't believe they're "starting over" just like after they killed Windows Mobile. The public outrage would be enormous if Android did such a thing. Announcing a new software version and then saying that ZERO previous devices, even very recent ones, would get the update is insane. MS shoots themselves in the foot once again, right after things started to look promising. They just can't do anything right in the mobile market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree. I hate this kind of planned obsolescence. I used to think Apple was the worst, with their soldered-in CPUs, lack of support for standard storage expansion like MicroSD, batteries that can't be user replaced, and cutting features from major iOS updates to older iPhones for no technical reason. However, Microsoft is really taking the cake here. Not only is it bad for consumers, but it's bad for the environment. We're already a society that generates a ridiculous amount of tech waste, and Microsoft isn't helping. In comparison, Apple is looking pretty good, because when iOS6 comes out, it'll run on the year old iPhone 4S, 2-year old iPhone 4, and 3-year old iPhone 3GS which will be 4-generations behind by that point.
When it comes to planned obsolescence, it looks like Microsoft now takes top honors for being the worst. I used to be pro-Microsoft, but now I hope they miss every sales benchmark.
mckeowngoo said:
PC for gaming : Windows
PC for general : Linux Mint
Tablet : iPad and Touchpad running CM9
Phone : S2 so Android with plenty of ROM options.
Would I switch to a Windows 8 phone? No because Microsoft are now so far behind Google and Apple it hurts.
Windows? Windied more like.
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Click to collapse
Behind by what metric? Sales? Sure. Technologically? After yesterday I really don't think that's the case. I am not sold on the entire interface and metro design ideas, but you can see the phones are pretty capable. If anyone is behind to me, it seems like Apple is woefully behind...
GnatGoSplat said:
I completely agree. I hate this kind of planned obsolescence. I used to think Apple was the worst, with their soldered-in CPUs, lack of support for standard storage expansion like MicroSD, batteries that can't be user replaced, and cutting features from major iOS updates to older iPhones for no technical reason. However, Microsoft is really taking the cake here. Not only is it bad for consumers, but it's bad for the environment. We're already a society that generates a ridiculous amount of tech waste, and Microsoft isn't helping. In comparison, Apple is looking pretty good, because when iOS6 comes out, it'll run on the year old iPhone 4S, 2-year old iPhone 4, and 3-year old iPhone 3GS which will be 4-generations behind by that point.
When it comes to planned obsolescence, it looks like Microsoft now takes top honors for being the worst. I used to be pro-Microsoft, but now I hope they miss every sales benchmark.
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Click to collapse
Go look at the feature list for all those older phones with iOS 6 installed. For the most part, it's an upgrade in name only. Planned obsolescence? I am running the iOS 6 beta right now on a 4S and it is quite obvious the next iPhone will have a taller screen. So many interface elements now feel cramped and the "window" into the OS now seems much too small. This includes the design for the App Store, the new Maps, etc. It actually seems to me, quite clearly, that the ONLY "very good" iOS 6 experience will be occurring on the new iPhone.
The bottom line is that the upgrade experience on all of these mobile devices is incredibly poor. No one really does it right. At this point they should be as open as PCs. You buy a phone, you install whatever OS or software you want. The idea that carriers, and to a lesser extent OEMs, have any say on this over the user is ludicrous.
Jared.M said:
Go look at the feature list for all those older phones with iOS 6 installed. For the most part, it's an upgrade in name only. Planned obsolescence? I am running the iOS 6 beta right now on a 4S and it is quite obvious the next iPhone will have a taller screen. So many interface elements now feel cramped and the "window" into the OS now seems much too small. This includes the design for the App Store, the new Maps, etc. It actually seems to me, quite clearly, that the ONLY "very good" iOS 6 experience will be occurring on the new iPhone.
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I haven't actually tried iOS 6 so I can't comment on the user experience, but it'll be more than just an upgrade in name. Since the core framework and kernel are being updated as well, it will run apps that are specifically compiled for iOS 6. It may not be the best user experience, but at least it won't leave people with old devices completely unable to run newer apps.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising Apple, but they are certainly looking better than Microsoft in how they treat their existing mobile users. It's completely the opposite of their philosophy with their desktop OS. Windows 7 was supposed to have lower system requirements than Vista so it could run well on older, existing hardware.
GnatGoSplat said:
I haven't actually tried iOS 6 so I can't comment on the user experience, but it'll be more than just an upgrade in name. Since the core framework and kernel are being updated as well, it will run apps that are specifically compiled for iOS 6. It may not be the best user experience, but at least it won't leave people with old devices completely unable to run newer apps.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising Apple, but they are certainly looking better than Microsoft in how they treat their existing mobile users. It's completely the opposite of their philosophy with their desktop OS. Windows 7 was supposed to have lower system requirements than Vista so it could run well on older, existing hardware.
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after owning an iphone 3gs I can say that it is a name upgrade only, when my device was upgraded to ios 4 not only was it slow, but it was crashing when I was trying to run apps that were designed for ios 4 and tbh id rather have not been upgraded than have been upgraded to software that was crashing my phone and making it almost impossible to use
sure you get an upgrade but tbh if a phone cant handle a newer os wouldn't it be better to have a good user experience on an earlier version and miss out on some of the new things than it is to have one like I described above
now I'm not defending Microsoft for dumping windows phone 7 for what ever the hell is next but apple is just as bad for breaking peoples phones so they HAVE to buy new ones because of how unusable their phones become
Is this the right place for the 7.8 debate? There's loads of threads for that already.
On topic, I think Microsoft are a threat to everyone right now. Apps on WP8 are potentially far more powerful than those on iOS or Android. The stuff they were talking about in that presentation is pretty stunning, with some amazing possibilities.
satchef1 said:
Is this the right place for the 7.8 debate? There's loads of threads for that already.
On topic, I think Microsoft are a threat to everyone right now. Apps on WP8 are potentially far more powerful than those on iOS or Android. The stuff they were talking about in that presentation is pretty stunning, with some amazing possibilities.
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They may be more powerful but the development cost and end price will be higher to recoup the investment from a smaller install base.
I found the lacks of apps and high price of apps the downside of my win 7 phone.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
Microsoft is a huge threat to everyone now. At first Microsoft products didn't communicate good with each other, now you're looking at a real ecosystem. App parity on all of your devices. Same application on the PC phone and tablet. No one else can provide that right now.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
fo.manush said:
They may be more powerful but the development cost and end price will be higher to recoup the investment from a smaller install base.
I found the lacks of apps and high price of apps the downside of my win 7 phone.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
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like yourself I also found windows phone 7 to be tasteless for the same reason, but you have to remember this is windows 8, a computer os, not a phone one, you can run every app you can from your desktop on x86 tablets and hybrids
the arm version I'm a bit skeptical about but there is going to be a way to emulate x86/x64 apps on the arm tablets, whether its official or through a company like VMware.
plus its not just about the apps but its also the games that improve as well, you can play full pc games on windows 8 along side with those mini games like angry birds and fruit ninja. not very many tablets out there that can play just cause 2 or call of duty, plus with xbox live integrated it will be a HUGE calling for children who use xbox live on a daily basis, heck its not even kids that will enjoy the xbox live integration, adults can as well. imagine playing hydro thunder or some other multiplayer game with your child while you are out of state/country
windows 8 does pose a huge threat to the android and iOS tablet market shares, sure its not gonna kill them off completely because you got your fan boys on both ends but its gonna be like the pc market share is now 90% windows, 9% apple, 1% inux/android
vetvito said:
Microsoft is a huge threat to everyone now. At first Microsoft products didn't communicate good with each other, now you're looking at a real ecosystem. App parity on all of your devices. Same application on the PC phone and tablet. No one else can provide that right now.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
^THIS
vetvito said:
Microsoft is a huge threat to everyone now. At first Microsoft products didn't communicate good with each other, now you're looking at a real ecosystem. App parity on all of your devices. Same application on the PC phone and tablet. No one else can provide that right now.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
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Actually, Both in Plat Store and Apple Apps Store, There are what we call universal apps fir both phone and tablet. 1 app for 2 devices. nothing new. Except for the PC part
How is the Surface tablet supposed to be popular and give the iPad a run for its money if places to buy it are limited?
You can buy an iPad online, Apple stores and select retail stores.
Mircrosoft have a handful of Microsoft stores in the US ONLY. Is the only option to buy online direct from a Microsoft store?
Mircrosoft seriously needs to make the Surface table easy to purchase from a wide number of sources if it has any chance to great sales figures.
I for one can't wait. Upgrading to Windows 8 on my desktop, purchasing a top Windows 8 handset and a 16gb Surface RT tablet. This combined with Skydrive makes an awesome integrated OS - just like Apple with the iPhone, Mac OS, iPad and iCloud.
tboy2000 said:
How is the Surface tablet supposed to be popular and give the iPad a run for its money if places to buy it are limited?
You can buy an iPad online, Apple stores and select retail stores.
Mircrosoft have a handful of Microsoft stores in the US ONLY. Is the only option to buy online direct from a Microsoft store?
Mircrosoft seriously needs to make the Surface table easy to purchase from a wide number of sources if it has any chance to great sales figures.
I for one can't wait. Upgrading to Windows 8 on my desktop, purchasing a top Windows 8 handset and a 16gb Surface RT tablet. This combined with Skydrive makes an awesome integrated OS - just like Apple with the iPhone, Mac OS, iPad and iCloud.
Click to expand...
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Take a chill-pill and wait for an announcement of Microsoft...?
Donny1987 said:
Take a chill-pill and wait for an announcement of Microsoft...?
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Which chill pill do you recommend?
Yeah, calm down man. You wrote this as if you already know that Surface will be difficult to find. Just wait till you actually hear something about where it will be available. Here's betting that-just like Apple-it will be available in MS stores, online, and at retailers like Best Buy. So relax.
Ok I will calm down I am sure I heard in the Keynote that you could only buy it through Microsoft. The thing is there are no physical Microsoft stores in Europe and that needs to be fixed.
tboy2000 said:
Ok I will calm down I am sure I heard in the Keynote that you could only buy it through Microsoft. The thing is there are no physical Microsoft stores in Europe and that needs to be fixed.
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i think it will be available in every store as are other tabs, laptops etc.
it might not beat ipad sales but will surely give a run for its money...
this is the only tab that i think has the power to take down ipad eventually....
If you truly can't wait, I then get a Samsung Series 7 Slate and load Windows 8. It's pretty close to a Surface, which is also made by Samsung.
It's pretty slick.
Sent from my HTC Vivid using TapaTalk
How is the Surface tablet supposed to be popular and give the iPad a run for its money if places to buy it are limited?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Considering the surface is the equivallent of an ultrabook in tablet form.... It's safe to say that it is beyond comparison to an ipad, unless said iPad was running OSX and the same Intel hardware as a MacBook.
Next time try not to say something so blatently idiotic.
Surface RT is only going to be on 6 models for the first 6-9 months. If I read correctly each chip maker was able to hand pick 2 companies to work with to make the first release of RT.
Now I am sure Microsoft and the 6 will have more then enough ways to feed the hunger for a Windows Tablet with and Arm chip.
Come the fall, you are not going to be able to find a place where there is no Windows RT available.
Yes right now, who knows where it's going to be sold, how much it will be.....
I am sure come Launch you will see a live event that will have all that information.
As it is right now.....everywhere I go I can not avoid the "Upgrade to Win8 for $15" ads, posters, radio spots.......
It's only 2-3 months away from Launch.......wait, be calm, don't panic....after your going to see how silly your words were!!!!
JSLEnterprises said:
Considering the surface is the equivallent of an ultrabook in tablet form.... It's safe to say that it is beyond comparison to an ipad, unless said iPad was running OSX and the same Intel hardware as a MacBook.
Next time try not to say something so blatently idiotic.
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Click to collapse
I think you are the one who said something idiotic - not I. There are TWO Surfaces or have you forgotten? Surface RT is not equivalent to an ultrabook and can be put up against/compared to an iPad. Surface Pro is on par with an ultrabook as it has full blown windows under the Metro skin.
No need to jump down my throat
i secont that... RT is in direct competition with iPad where as Pro one, which will come out late, is an ultrabook
JSLEnterprises said:
Considering the surface is the equivallent of an ultrabook in tablet form.... It's safe to say that it is beyond comparison to an ipad, unless said iPad was running OSX and the same Intel hardware as a MacBook.
Next time try not to say something so blatently idiotic.
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Click to collapse
I'm fairly sure microsoft is making surface in house, There may be samsung parts in it, but I do not think it is assembled by samsung. At least as far as ive read.
OrangeTang said:
I'm fairly sure microsoft is making surface in house, There may be samsung parts in it, but I do not think it is assembled by samsung. At least as far as ive read.
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if I recall correctly, and please correct me if im wrong, but MS doesn't have manufacturing lines, all their hardware is outsourced to other manufactures.
dazza9075 said:
if I recall correctly, and please correct me if im wrong, but MS doesn't have manufacturing lines, all their hardware is outsourced to other manufactures.
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Yeah...
it can easily be a rumor but i found this:
http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsof...-windows-surface-tablets-ipad-supplier-196106
tanush said:
Yeah...
it can easily be a rumor but i found this:
http://www.infoworld.com/t/microsof...-windows-surface-tablets-ipad-supplier-196106
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that would make perfect sense, a manufacture that is already pumping out these things wouldn't need a massive change of direction to run another production line of a similar nature.
anyhow, wait until one pops out then we can rip it apart and look for point of origin signs
tboy2000 said:
How is the Surface tablet supposed to be popular and give the iPad a run for its money if places to buy it are limited?
You can buy an iPad online, Apple stores and select retail stores.
Mircrosoft have a handful of Microsoft stores in the US ONLY. Is the only option to buy online direct from a Microsoft store?
Mircrosoft seriously needs to make the Surface table easy to purchase from a wide number of sources if it has any chance to great sales figures.
I for one can't wait. Upgrading to Windows 8 on my desktop, purchasing a top Windows 8 handset and a 16gb Surface RT tablet. This combined with Skydrive makes an awesome integrated OS - just like Apple with the iPhone, Mac OS, iPad and iCloud.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you might want to wait and see what surface sells like?
the surface presentation looked like a soft launch of alpha class stuffs for market testing...it wasn't even as solid as the wp7 early debut. "Limited supply" screams low commitment or low expectations from Microsoft.
Just sayin
---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------
Greywolf_Ghost said:
As it is right now.....everywhere I go I can not avoid the "Upgrade to Win8 for $15" ads, posters, radio spots.......
It's only 2-3 months away from Launch.......wait, be calm, don't panic....after your going to see how silly your words were!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take pictures, post them here... it would be neat to see some marketing again from Microsoft.
Most places like Best Buy and Futureshop have the deal on, I know I even saw it on the MS website.
Except for a tiny link on most sites, you would think Windows 8 was not going to happen anytime soon.
Windows 8 Metro relies HEAVILY on touch or high end trackpad support. PS/2 trackpads that are on the vast majority of laptops don't cut it with their pseudo-multitouch.
I am going to get a Samsung 7 because I am excited as an avid Mac and Windows Phone user that something so elegant and powerful is coming to the desktop.
Current hardware basically stinks to high heaven for getting a good Windows 8 experience because even RTM makes using the desktop difficult because desktop apps are hidden by default. This is a completely new OS, not at all an upgrade.
Sent from my PI39100 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I never did get an apology from JLEnterprises
Anyway, what sucks about the 14.99 windows upgrade is that the special price is only valid if you have purchased a PC with Windows 7 from June 2, 2012 to January 31, 2013. If you have a PC with Windows 7 prior to June 2012 (as I have), I guess we have to pay the full monty for it. Ho hum!
RT can't be compared to iPad because it doesn't have nor could it have the same amount and quality of apps.