I sometimes thing that by introducing updates to the OS so fast is Google doing the right thing.
Before you all start hitting at me please go through these two scenarios
An OS update every year which ensures that there are major changes and upgrade to the OS which will mean devices will have a better chances of getting upgrades as then the developement cost for customization of a device will be once a year
An OS update every three to six months which ensure most of the device are either not updated or when the update is about to be released the new update is already out the perfect scenario is 4 to 4,1 to 4.1.1 to 4.2 LG is still to release update for ICS for some devices, Samsung is still to release update of JB to most of its device and we have an update to JB whats worst is now we are looking upgrade to 4.2.
Every cell phone or table OEM using Android does its own customization to the OS and then there are some locked phones in the US so for them to release a new version they need to customize it first which will have a cost involved and now with these recent sprint of updates by google I am sure most of our device will not go beyond JB some have not even gone beyond GB yet because at the end of the day these companies are here to make profit and if they end up spending more on developement then what they have earned then naturaly they will not do it.
So I feel this should rationalized to make sure the existing owners do not suffer because of this flawed update policy of Google devices
Google OS updates are a total mess. I like how apple do it.
Sent from my GT-N8010 using xda premium
Agreed with you the updates are making life of existing owners misreble hell I cannot afford to upgrade my cell every six months or even a year and a tablet for a couple of years because I am from India do not earn that much and secondly we have to buy outright no contracts so for me this is worst thing to happen My LG optimus 2x is still not being updated to ICS and ICS is already obsolute
samir_a said:
Agreed with you the updates are making life of existing owners misreble hell I cannot afford to upgrade my cell every six months or even a year and a tablet for a couple of years because I am from India do not earn that much and secondly we have to buy outright no contracts so for me this is worst thing to happen My LG optimus 2x is still not being updated to ICS and ICS is already obsolute
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You are right, even there are Samsung tablets in some regions haven't got ics and now Google is releasing 4.2, I have abad feeling from my experience with Samsung tablets that we are not going to get any updates after jellybean
Sent from my X10S using xda app-developers app
To be frank you cannot blame Samsung or for that matter any other manufacturer because these devices are highly customized and for every new version they have do develope the ROM which involves cost naturally even if you are in business you will not spend on developement when the revenue generated from it is surpased by cost of developement
The answer is yes. Stalling leads to less innovation. Besides, the next Jellybean update is not a huge one. This is why I will get a Nexus Phone, because of the updates. As for tha tablet, I can live a little while not having the latest OS.
Google's release planning outwardly looks like it’s being run by a bunch of kids. "Ooh, ooh, we should change how screen orientation works, let's push it out!" There is absolutely no reason they should be pushing out major updates more than twice a year with once a year being ideal. Minor maintenance updates that don’t affect things the manufacturers have written should be pushed out quarterly. The way updates normally work you need to spend as much time considering the impact to your installed base as you do to newer devices. With a set release schedule all those involved know if you want something changed or improved you've got to have it blessed and ready by the revision date. If not, you wait for the next. It's clear they could care less about their installed base. And Nexus devices aren't the answer as they represent less than 5% of Android phones sold. The fragmentation this creates helps no one - customers, manufacturers, app developers, and resellers. And if people have to buy new phones to keep up with the latest Google OS they'll get tired of it eventually and the next new phone they buy could be W8 or iOS. We're Android fans and are loyal. The general populous less so.
This is absolutely unforgivable and is going to come back and bite Google in the ass no matter how many Nexi they create.
With the exception of ^^ Jonphinguyen7, you guys have it completely wrong.
If you prefer Apple, go to Apple, have "fun" but Google keeps up with all updates just like Apple.
We have Android devices [by Samsung, HTC, Motorola, etc].
You want the real Google experience, get a Google device [Nexus].
Updates are NOT that fast either.
Android 3.x Honeycomb -- Feb 2011
Android 4.0.x Ice Cream Sandwich -- Oct 2011
Android 4.1.x Jelly Bean -- July 2012
Blame the lack of updates on the manufacturer.
That's what we get into when we decide to go with a Galaxy Device... i thought everyone knew.
HG! said:
With the exception of ^^ Jonphinguyen7, you guys have it completely wrong.
If you prefer Apple, go to Apple, have "fun" but Google keeps up with all updates just like Apple.
We have Android devices [by Samsung, HTC, Motorola, etc].
You want the real Google experience, get a Google device [Nexus].
Updates are NOT that fast either.
Android 3.x Honeycomb -- Feb 2011
Android 4.0.x Ice Cream Sandwich -- Oct 2011
Android 4.1.x Jelly Bean -- July 2012
Blame the lack of updates on the manufacturer.
That's what we get into when we decide to go with a Galaxy Device... i thought everyone knew.
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Click to collapse
You're missing the point completely by assuming your attitude is shared by the majority of phone buyers. Android can't succeed without carrier and manufacturer support. Even Nexus phones on VZW, the biggest carrier in the U.S. and one of the top five in the world, are a train wreck because they use CDMA. Carrier networks while theoretically based on the same technology all have different tweaks that require changes in the radio settings. A generic Nexus device, even on GSM, has problems on certain networks which is why the carrier-sold GN's come in so many different versions. And those carrier GN’s don’t receive updates when Google pushes them out creating the same update frustration for their owners that we’re discussing for the Note.
With 90% of phones sold in the U.S. kept an average of 15 months and subsidized by carriers there is nothing Google can do with its Nexus line that is going to influence the mainstream phone buyer. In market research that's been done those same people also like the features that TouchWiz and Sense provide which is why Samsung and HTC spend so much time and money on their UIs. Enthusiasts like us make up 5% of phone buyers. If Google captures 100% of us and 10% of the rest it's a major fail and a great opportunity for iOS and W8. Google's the "tail," not the "dog" and with Samsung, HTC, Nokia, and Huawei jumping on the W8 band wagon so quickly and heavily you have to ask yourself “why?”
Google's lack of attention to the partners it needs for Android to succeed (carriers, manufacturers) and customers using their OS can't end well when there are viable alternatives like iOS and W8 available from competitors with resources as ample as Google's. The mobile race is in its infancy and anyone can still win and Google needs friends more than they need Key Lime Pie.
This is what Nexus looks like behind the scenes...
Well said also we need to remember Google Nexus devices are again built in partnership unlike Iphone which means they a dependent of someone for the hardware something I find strange and again show how missmanged things are at google is they own motorola but they are not building their flagship nexus devices instead samsung and lg are doing which makes no business sense as it tells that google does not have confidence that moto can build nexus devices if that is the case then why did they buy it. Google needs to understand updates are great but they are useless if they cannot reach majority of their customer base.
HG! said:
With the exception of ^^ Jonphinguyen7, you guys have it completely wrong.
If you prefer Apple, go to Apple, have "fun" but Google keeps up with all updates just like Apple.
We have Android devices [by Samsung, HTC, Motorola, etc].
You want the real Google experience, get a Google device [Nexus].
Updates are NOT that fast either.
Android 3.x Honeycomb -- Feb 2011
Android 4.0.x Ice Cream Sandwich -- Oct 2011
Android 4.1.x Jelly Bean -- July 2012
Blame the lack of updates on the manufacturer.
That's what we get into when we decide to go with a Galaxy Device... i thought everyone knew.
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Click to collapse
What you are describing is people who are using unlcoked/unsubsidized GN phones and their numbers are really small compared to the rest of the Android owners. As Barry pointed out, GN phones that are sold by the carriers are not any different when it comes to receiving updates. With this perspective, the people who are enjoying the "real Google experience", which brings frequent updates, is a tiny fraction of their target market, and releasing major updates so often only frustrates both manufacturers and the carriers (at least in the US), not to mention the owners of Android phones/tablets. Just take a look at any carrier-specific forums few days after the release of Android updates and see the slurry of angry comments asking for "where's my update? I'm never buying a Samsung phone/tablet again, etc, etc".
Keep in mind that the relationship between Samsung, HTC, LG, etc. with Google has been based on a "well, there's no other alternative to iOS in the mobile world" argument. Nokia has recently released Windows phones that were received very well as an alternative but couldn't capture significant market share partly due to OS limitations and the "novelty factor". Samsung and HTC had Windows phones before, but none of them were any major players compared to Android or iOS. I don't remember seeing a single commercial touting any Windows phones with the exception of Nokia's recent offerings. Based on what's been published over the years, Google's treatment of this relationship and the fragmentation that it generates with every release have not been received very well by the manufacturers. Like it or not, W8 is designed with mobile platforms in mind first, followed by desktop computing.
As pointed out, the manufacturers of Android devices are not only making W8 tablets, but also many W8 phones, now. Since many people in the US are more familiar with Samsung, HTC and LG, compared to Nokia or Sony Ericsson, the availability of W8 phones will most likely take people away from prospective Android buyers rather than Apple customers. The part of the success of Apple is the unity, integrity and the similarities between MacOS and iOS. In a perfect world, I wouldn't mind using W8 on my desktop, laptop (via bootcamp), tablet and phone (if this happens, I'll be buying a small Android tablet; I'm nostalgic). This is what MS is hoping/planning for, and we'll see how well that could be executed over the next 3-6 months.
If W8 tablets/phones don't generate enough excitement, then we're stuck with Android and Google's further fragmentation. Luckily, Samsung adds a lot more on top of the "plain" Android to keep us happy. I've used my son's Nexus 7 for about a month now, and every single time, I find myself looking for certain components of the TW interface that I'm accustomed to from my Note 10.1. Therefore, I don't see myself buying any Nexus device in the future, but I hope they do well. If the analysts are correct, then Google may be the only manufacturer of high-end Android tablets in the future.
tenderidol said:
people who are enjoying the "real Google experience", which brings frequent updates, is a tiny fraction of their target market.
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Click to collapse
And let's be honest. The "real Google experience" is a pretty basic OS tied to Google Apps, Google Music, Google Books, Google TV & Movies, and other things Google wants people to buy. Phones with overlays that integrate features and make them easier to use together are more appealing to the mainstream than having to go out to Play Store and figure out which of the dozens of different alternatives available for a specific chore is going to do what they want it to do. And out of a dozen similar apps 2/3 can be total crap and built in someone's garage. Camry's and Accord's are probably about as commoditized a car as any on the market. Yet they are consistently best sellers. The majority of phone buyers like car buyers aren't looking for a do-it-yourself project. They want something reliable, that's low maintenance, and that they know is going to work and hold up over time. And they are the ones that are going to decide whether Android, W8, or iOS is the best and most prevalent mobile OS.
And Google’s hardware division, Motorola, sending a "f-you” message to their customers by reneging on their commitment to move 2011 high-end devices to JB in violation of the Google-sponsored Open Handset Alliance’s covenants speaks volumes about what’s important to Google. If they keep putting unattainable functionality ahead of their existing customer’s experiences they are going to drive people away.
You all seem to be mistaken on what is the main question at hand. No, Google is not updating too fast, as pointed out with some dates from another poster. The reason it takes too long or never happens (our updates) is because of all the bloat and custom software put into it by manufacturers and OEM's. The "Google Experience" isn't just the main Google apps, it's the OS at it's purest, with no additional features added by manufacturers. Lastly, if you watched the Google I/O you will remember the Google Rep saying that they will be giving update source code to manufacturers six month in advance now, so that they can add all their junk onto it for (hopefully) timely updates.
^OS at its purest requires you to download a lot of 'junk' from playstore to even do basic tasks. Some of the manufacturer customization are useful.
Related
So, just thinking about all this update news and Galaxy Tab news.
Samsung released the Galaxy S phone (now I know..) 3-4 months ago in UK. People had problems with GPS and other things. Samsung releases Galaxy S phones in the US with similar problems and samsung has yet to actually fix anything.
So my concern, I'm not really interested in buying a Galaxy Tab. But, If Samsung released phones that were glitchy and buggy (not that every other phone doesn't have some kind of issue at release), and have yet to correct these issues. What do you think they'll do with the Galaxy Tab? The same thing?
presence06 said:
So, just thinking about all this update news and Galaxy Tab news.
Samsung released the Galaxy S phone (now I know..) 3-4 months ago in UK. People had problems with GPS and other things. Samsung releases Galaxy S phones in the US with similar problems and samsung has yet to actually fix anything.
So my concern, I'm not really interested in buying a Galaxy Tab. But, If Samsung released phones that were glitchy and buggy (not that every other phone doesn't have some kind of issue at release), and have yet to correct these issues. What do you think they'll do with the Galaxy Tab? The same thing?
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i'm with you on that one, i was thinking about getting one tab, but, with all this issues that samsung is ignoring, i think i just hold on to my nomey
yes..no money from me unless they fix what I already paid for.
I paid full amount without contracts so I am very angry
Speaking purely from the perspective of a consumer (e.g., and not of one of a developer), I am very disappointed that Google Android updates don't flow (quickly) downstream. While I don't want to argue about where iOS is "better" than Android, Apple has repeatedly demonstrated their ability to push O/S updates out to their phone and tablets - and their ability to do so relatively quickly. This is different from Google's approach which leaves the O/S updates to the speed and discretion of each specific device manufacturer.
Given the non-nimble response Samsung has demonstrated with their "Flagship" Galaxy S line, I'm not very optimistic that they would perform any better with their Tablet.
Personally, I'm going to look at Apple, or at a different Android-based solution by a manufacturer who is committed to provided timely updates, patches, and fixes to their products.
ScratchSF said:
Speaking purely from the perspective of a consumer (e.g., and not of one of a developer), I am very disappointed that Google Android updates don't flow (quickly) downstream. While I don't want to argue about where iOS is "better" than Android, Apple has repeatedly demonstrated their ability to push O/S updates out to their phone and tablets - and their ability to do so relatively quickly. This is different from Google's approach which leaves the O/S updates to the speed and discretion of each specific device manufacturer.
Given the non-nimble response Samsung has demonstrated with their "Flagship" Galaxy S line, I'm not very optimistic that they would perform any better with their Tablet.
Personally, I'm going to look at Apple, or at a different Android-based solution by a manufacturer who is committed to provided timely updates, patches, and fixes to their products.
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I agree, Apple does an awesome job with pushing out updates. It's run through iTunes and all a user has to do is plug their phone into a computer/Mac with iTunes and there's the update.
Android is different though, I might be wrong in my procedure but I think it's close. Google released the source for the new Upgrade 2.2(or whatever update) then passes it to the Manufactures (Motorola, Samsung), they tweak it with their UI overlay and then pass it to their Carriers.
It's been said that Vanilla, or stock Android gets updates faster because there's no UI tweaks done to the OS version. Which has shown true. The nexus one has 2.2.1 now being pushed, while the G2 will come stock 2.2 and those two phones alone will probably see 2.2.x or possibly 3.0 before we we even see 2.2.1(if it's going to other phones).
Motorola has the Droid series and has done a decent job with pushing updates. They might not have the mass of phones that Sammy has sold, but it still shows who's "playing" for the Customer. Samsung has known about this issue with the GPS for months now and hasn't issued any kind of update to actually correct these issues. It just proves Samsung's negligence IMO. It's too bad, because outside of these issues the phone is excellent. But when a company doesn't stand behind their products, it just sucks for the end user.
One Carrier. One device yearly. Multiple updates throughout the year. But one of the best parts, imo, No AT&T control. Apple seems to have complete control. I know a lot of people who really dislike that, but I know even more who are pulling their hair out because they signed a two year contract on a device that may never see Android 2.3. Or by the time it does there will be 20 newer, better and faster devices out with 3.0. It's frustrating when you not only have to wait on Google to produce a newer update, but then you have to wait on the phone manufacturer to produce an update due to their proprietary UI, and then have to wait on the carrier to add their bloatware and restrictions.
These forums are our only way to vent these frustrations. The carrier doesn't care, and the manufacturer doesn't care. They have your name on the dotted line. You are theirs for the next two years if you don't want an ETF.
Why not release stock Android with the option of carrier UI download?
Or at least a system where you can go to stock Android for your device, downloaded directly from Google in an itunes manner if you wanted.
I hear the term "fragmented" a lot these days when people talk about Android. So many devices with so many versions of Android.
I've heard talk of an Android overhaul with 3.0. May'be rumors.
When we do get 2.2, We will go through the whole thing over again for 2.3.
2.3 is already out. It should be made ready for all Android devices that can support it an be available as a download for those devices. At the same time the carriers should be working on their custom UI and have that downloadable ASAP. May'be that's impossible due to the fact that Google doesn't produce these devices, just the base software on them.
Just my rant/questions/vent
I do see your point.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Samsung site is advertising 2.2 froyo for epic?
I never looked at it that way. We definitely wouldn't be that pissed now. Although samsung is slapping us in the face advertising froyo 2.2 for our phones here http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SPH-D700ZKASPR-features
And you are posting this in the forum of a device with a slideout keyboard and 4 inch SAMOLED screen.
Yes I sure would love to be locked into one form factor and system internals.
diego1985 said:
I never looked at it that way. We definitely wouldn't be that pissed now. Although samsung is slapping us in the face advertising froyo 2.2 for our phones here http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones/SPH-D700ZKASPR-features
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This ish pissis me off...... and I'm in us stuck on unofficial 2.2
Sent from my Samsung epic using XDA App
What device hasn't been upgraded either officially or through custom roms within a year of its release to a newer build of Android? The iPhone gets updates once a year.
Anyone pulling their hair out because their device isn't getting an official port of Android 2.3 is an idiot to begin with. Buy devices that are worthy on their own with current software. Don't hope that you MAY get an update to make it the phone you really want. And if you somehow NEED to get updates because your e-peen just won't be big enough without the latest Android build on your phone, then buy a damn nexus 1 or S.
dakarf said:
And you are posting this in the forum of a device with a slideout keyboard and 4 inch SAMOLED screen.
Yes I sure would love to be locked into one form factor and system internals.
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Just talking about one slice of the Apple, not the whole thing. There is also something good to be said of openness and choice.
There is just so much anger and frustration when it comes to Android and I think a lot of it has to do with manufacturer and carrier control and their decision to keep the consumer out of the loop. Vague and general answers are not much better than no answers at all. The "you'll get it when you get it" attitude some people have, although it's true, does not ease the sense of irritation.
Theres no way cr-apple had the right idea, there while system is flawed right down to one piece of hardware for all. All other things aside, I hate apple hardware period. And everyone having the sandstone except for color is stupid. Android ftw. Open hardware/software ftw. Samoled ftw.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Maybe Froyo will come soon with these changes coming to the website. We know its close.
Sent from my shoe, I mean....Epic shoe... I mean Samsung Epic! http://mobilehighway.blogspot.com/
While maybe apple doesn't have the right idea it sounds like windows phone 7 may have it right. Multiple devices, multiple carriers, multiple form factors, manufacterer controlled updates. Too bad its not as awesome as android yet
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
The thing is its messy right now but once 3.0 comes things will change a lot...why? simple, right now Google is releasing bi-annually..and not waiting for manufacturers to catch up...once 3.0 hits Android will be released once a year...Google will also start working closer with their partners and manufacturers...
In reality I don't think Apple or WP7 has the right idea...simply because right now entered a cell phone age..aka phone specs are jumping every year by a good leap...
Apple has a policy where they upgraded the 3gs and the 3g to version 4 which is nice for average consumers..but at the same time it kinda forces partners to limit themselves to the minimum specs...same will happen with WP7 and their minimum of snapdragons...once dual cores come out and apps take advantage of these, all WP7 devices will be left behind because the apps have to be backwards compatible with the lower specced versions..(now I know they may have implementations of which hardware can use what App..but then both M$ and Apple would be eating their own words of "fragmentation" as they call it)
I can understand how an average consumer would be left out right now..but at same time average consumer does not care much for upgrades as much as we do either...either way past 3.0 it will get a lot better..
apple and windows are limited because thats the way they want it. f*** that. this android is the most universal device ive ever seen. the os is written very well. i like no limits or restrictions to the possibilities other than the hardware. do you really think the next iphone will have a dual core sssshhhhtttt i doubt it. even if it does it will still be slower than this phone ha. google is getting their act together with android because it is in their best interest because they will make way more money off of all the advertising from everytime we search stuff and the info they get from when we use navigation.
Like all Xoom owners across the world, I’m looking forward to the 3.1 Honeycomb update, and while I’m happy that some of our American cousins are enjoying their newly enhanced Xoom. I’m very disappointed at Google/Motorola’s plan (or lack of) to update Xoom outside of the US.
From different stories I read, Google/Motorola will update non-Verizon Xoom in “several weeks”. This sound to me like Google/Motorola don’t care about the rest of us, and will get to it when they have time, so we could be waiting MONTHS for the same update.
The fact Google/Motorola did not give any concrete timetable for non-Verizon Xoom update makes me fear the worst.
It’s funny to me that Google can make pledge to keep new android devices from multiple manufactures updated for 18 months. Yet they can't even manage to roll out a simple update for one device from a single manufacture they worked closely with.
Love or hate Apple, at least they can roll out IOS update across multiple devices at the sometime. Maybe their devices really are magical.
I hope I’m wrong and all Xoom will receive the update in the next couple of weeks.
P.S. this incompetence can only be blamed on Google/Motorola as Xoom sold in UK have stock firmware came directly from Motorola, so there isn’t the mobile carrier delay get device updated.
I wonder when people will stop complaining about update schedules. I mean transparency is nice, but it also has the ability to affect stock prices of publicly traded companies.
They can't tell us as much as you would like them too. Pretty simple.
I can honestly assure you that you will get the update eventually, probably a lot sooner than you think.
No need to sound alarms that your device isn't being supported.
You do realize several weeks means at most 4-6 weeks.... this is because the current 3.1 update is phase updating so it might mean every 3g Xoom might not have the update until "several weeks" from now.... Also your claim of Apple releasing iOS to multiple devices in 1 day is irrelevant. Apple manufactures all their products which is limited to at most 4 phones.... Google does not...
Basically there is nothing you can do and the rant is in all honesty kind of pointless and selfish....
I'm not worried about the update, but it would be nice as a Canadian to actually be able to use some of Google services. I bought my Xoom on the premise that I'd be able to at least view the public domain books, only to learn that the tablet app wont function at all.
I'll take the blame on that one, but the fact is it's really difficult to get excited about these new features when their existing services have yet to move out of the US region. Apple was able to release iBooks in Canada shortly after the US launch. Likewise, they were able to get videos on iTunes at roughly the same time as the US. It's clearly possible.
Hopefully content providers will start cooperating with Google. I don't see how they think they have any other choice - and they wonder why people in Canada pirate more media than anywhere else in the world.
I know it’s has only been one day, but is it too much to ask for simple acknowledgment on when the update will come apart from the vague term of several weeks? As a consumer I don’t care about Google/Motorola stock prices.
The Apple comparison is not irrelevant, Google and Android manufactures already have bad reputation for either not updating their devices (Sony) or update them VERY slowly (Samsung, Dell). Any major delay getting all first Honeycomb tablet updated will only put more people off choosing Honeycomb and buying ipad.
I’m currently enjoying using my Xoom and do not consider it’s worthless, I wish to have an idea on when I can start enjoy the new enhancements.
I’m only look for similar treatment from Google/Motorola on a device I paid for. If you guys consider asking for equality is whining then so be it.
Elysian893 said:
It's been ONE day, jesus.
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one day but the anouncement said "will start rolling today." You'd think they could get a few of these updated in 24 hours. Since they said "today" it should have been rolling as soon as they anounced it.
Trolling responses deleted. Let's keep this thread free from the immaturity I've grown to know and love in this sub-forum.
Seriously, though. While this was not voiced the best way possible and this is far too early to complain, this is a somewhat valid concern. More trolling and I will close the thread and issue infractions.
PS. Incredibly flame-worthy trollbait of a title changed to something more accurately reflecting the OP's message.
All the *****ing about when people are going to get my update reminds me of the saying.. "the foods terrible and the portions are too small"
Frankly if google were to try to release 3.1 to all xoom users (domestic/out of the us, 3G and Wi-Fi) at the exact same time I guarantee it would mean that some people's 3.1 updates would get delayed even more until the update was ready for everyone.
Yes it would be great if they did updates like Apple but google has much more hardware variety to deal with and more carriers to deal with. Let alone carriers that want to mess with the OS so it's not "stock" anymore. so obviously it's not as easy for them.
People sound like my 3 year old that cries that he can't have a toy. The same toy he didn't even know about 2 minutes earlier. He is perfectly content until he realizes there is something he doesn't have.
Dan
Im more concerned without when we will get stock images for european 3g, right now, even if we get an update in the next few weeks, those of us that have modded cannot ota update cause we can't flash back to stock.
Failing that, im happy to get a stock image for 3.1, but getting information out of Motorola, if you are non-us is like trying to get blood from a stone.
Macbots drool as I XOOM through the Galaxy to my hearts Desire.
I’d like to apologise for the old thread title, it was meant in jest, and not inflammatory.
I’m not too concerned about when the update is coming. Only that I wish Google/Motorola given us a rough timeline on update for different regions, I’d have been content with a single slideshow on this matter.
Let us look at the bigger picture:
Unlike the smartphone market, Android is playing catch up to Apple in the tablet market, The Xoom is very important to Google as they need to use this 1st true Android tablet to capture people’s attentions and produce a good user experience similar to the ipad.
This update is even more important in this regard, as it include fixes for long lists of bugs for 3.01. Which is not the most stable OS to start with especially compared to IOS.
Therefore, to have Xoom outside the US running on older and buggier software for any length of time more than necessary will only produce more negative user experiences that spread by press reviews and words of mouth.
http://investor.google.com/releases/2011/0815.html
Game changer? Thoughts as to what it means for us xoomers?
I was coming to post this as well.. Friggin sweet... The true Google device..
dubsjw27 said:
http://investor.google.com/releases/2011/0815.html
Game changer? Thoughts as to what it means for us xoomers?
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Wow. This one is being reported all across the interwebs at the moment.
First of all if I were HTC and Samsung I would be LIVID right now. Both companies have stacked a lot of chips on Android and may now be seeing that as not as sure a bet as they thought. It would make sense for Google to now keep its flagship devices "in house" and have them made by Moto Mobile. This is going to freeze both companies out of the plum position of producing the concept devices for each new version of Android.
What does this foretell for the future? First of all I would not be surprised to see both HTC and Samsung trying to repair connections with Microsoft, and looking again at making a larger commitment to Windows Phone 7.
For we Xoom users, it heavily improves the odds of us seeing an official ICS release by the end of the year. That was already likely since the Xoom was being used to demo the software, but now will be even more so.
Interesting days ahead.
It gives me a little more confidence that the xoom won't be left behind as quickly as we all thought it would be.
Great move for all Android partners
If anything, this protects HTC and Samsung's Android business from patents claims against them. Google will use it's new patent muscle as a deterrent. Google stated Motorola will be a licensee just like the others. I'm sure all new GED's will be Moto but I doubt the influence will extend much beyond that.
Well, I want this:
Motorola has a lot of patents on mobile / smartphone technology.
So, I want Google to use those patents to protect Android!
I don't know how ... but I dreamed this to shut up that Apple patent troll.
Probably, Google intention was mainly for Motorola patents.
linuxdood said:
If anything, this protects HTC and Samsung's Android business from patents claims against them. Google will use it's new patent muscle as a deterrent. Google stated Motorola will be a licensee just like the others. I'm sure all new GED's will be Moto but I doubt the influence will extend much beyond that.
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I agree that this is a good move in the long-term for Android as a platform...but I think you underestimate the influence that being the sole source of GEDs will give Moto. They will be the glass of fashion.
Google will continue to provide the software to all it's partners, sure...but I think we are coming up very swiftly on a new synthesis of hardware and software...basically the Apple model accepted as the norm. Apple vs Google/Moto vs Microsoft/Nokia.
My question now is...who buys RIM. My guess is Microsoft.
Well, my day just got better.
Google has been outspoken about unlockable bootloaders. Could this mean all upcoming Google/Motorola devices will be fully unlockable?
Moto blur is now officially killed
How sweet ...
UPDATE:
So, the purchase is to defend Android ...
Update: More quotes from Android partners after the break.
Peter Chou, CEO, HTC:
We welcome the news of today's acquisition, which demonstrates that Google is deeply committed to defending Android, its partners, and the entire ecosystem.
Bert Nordberg, President & CEO, Sony Ericsson:
I welcome Google's commitment to defending Android and its partners.
Jong-Seok Park, President & CEO, LG:
We welcome Google's commitment to defending Android and its partners.
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Maybe they will purchase htc, samsung, etc.....
I expect this kind of news in the future:
GOOGLE is suing Apple for some (Motorola) patents infringement.
Then in negotiation:
Apple: So, what's now? How do we settle?
Google: Easy, drop all your lousy law suits on Android manufacturers
That would be epic!
armychris28210 said:
Maybe they will purchase htc, samsung, etc.....
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Yes! And then they will concentrate on one phone, to make it perfect with all their new know how. To enhance the security they get rid of the open source ****, and make it perfectly usable and easy by integrating it to Google Music as the only way to put music on the device. It will be called the GPhone and it will...ohhh...wait...
gogol said:
UPDATE:
So, the purchase is to defend Android ...
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Well it certainly is, at least partially. Patents are the big deal these days.
However, as for the parts of the deal that are about getting an in house hardware maker being downplayed...what else are the brass of HTC, Sony Ericsson and LG going to say?
It reminds me of the losers on The Bachelor "He totally like made the right choice...I really think this is for the best and hope they will be very happy...."
We will see how they really feel if the announcements of additional WM7 phones start picking up speed.
>First of all if I were HTC and Samsung I would be LIVID right now.
Co-opetition is the nature of business (and a lot of other areas). Things are always more complicated than the black-or-white, friend-or-foe picture people try to paint. MS is in with Nokia, but other co's are still making WP7 phones. It all depends on what makes sense (read: profit).
That the deal happens is not because of Moto Mobo's hardware capability, but for its patent portfolio.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903392904576509953821437960.html
>It would make sense for Google to now keep its flagship devices "in house" and have them made by Moto Mobile.
No, it doesn't. That would go against everything that it has built Android to be, which is an "open", device- (and vendor-) agnostic OS. If it wants to destroy Android, that would be the surest way to go about it.
>For we Xoom users, it heavily improves the odds of us seeing an official ICS release by the end of the year.
I don't see it changes the picture any wrt the Xoom. As a GED device (for US model), the odds were always in favor of Xoom getting official ICS--and for most Teg2 tabs from major vendors, for that matter.
The acquisition will take place over some months, long after the Xoom has come and gone. I don't see Moto getting any "nicer" with supporting the Xoom just because it will be part of Goog. The Xoom is just one of many Moto products, and its replacements are already in the pipe.
e.mote said:
No, it doesn't. That would go against everything that it has built Android to be, which is an "open", device- (and vendor-) agnostic OS. If it wants to destroy Android, that would be the surest way to go about it.
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That is not completely accurate. Google has always selected one vendor for each version to develop the flagship GED device. The vendors have competed heavily to get those contracts since they involved a lot of interaction with the software design team and a leg up on smooth integration.
Now, it will make sense for Moto to have those prototype devices, as it means that Google will be able to control the process even further.
Android is vendor-agnostic, but each version has always had one vendor who was first amongst equals...and that will now be Moto.
RonnieFoxxx said:
Google has been outspoken about unlockable bootloaders. Could this mean all upcoming Google/Motorola devices will be fully unlockable?
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Unlocked, not unlockable!
>Now, it will make sense for Moto to have those prototype devices, as it means that Google will be able to control the process even further.
I don't see this as a big deal. Having the Xoom released first didn't help Moto any wrt to sales, nor was having a GED a benefit to the user experience. Xoom users do get updates a bit faster, but other devices have value-added functionality (eg SD card, Splashtop, etc) that the Xoom lacks, OOB.
As far as "controlling the experience," that remains to be seen. It's hard to say with this 1st-gen as a gauge, as HC has been an ongoing beta for ICS. We'll have to see what Goog will do with its newly acquired hardware arm. I think it should be emphasized that the acquisition is more to shore up its patent stash than to "control the Android experience." Goog's failed 6.5B attempt to acquire Nortel's patents is indicative of its need in this area.
rschenck said:
Wow. This one is being reported all across the interwebs at the moment.
First of all if I were HTC and Samsung I would be LIVID right now. Both companies have stacked a lot of chips on Android and may now be seeing that as not as sure a bet as they thought. It would make sense for Google to now keep its flagship devices "in house" and have them made by Moto Mobile. This is going to freeze both companies out of the plum position of producing the concept devices for each new version of Android.
What does this foretell for the future? First of all I would not be surprised to see both HTC and Samsung trying to repair connections with Microsoft, and looking again at making a larger commitment to Windows Phone 7.
For we Xoom users, it heavily improves the odds of us seeing an official ICS release by the end of the year. That was already likely since the Xoom was being used to demo the software, but now will be even more so.
Interesting days ahead.
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Don't be silly, android is an open source project device manufacturers will still be able to put their customizations out and will still be shipping phones with old versions of android. This deal will have no impact on android device manufacturers other then patent protection
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
The announcement that Nexus One users won’t be getting upgraded to Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich led some to justifiably question Google’s support of their devices. I look at it a little differently: Nexus One owners are lucky. I’ve been researching the history of OS updates on Android phones and Nexus One users have fared much, much better than most Android buyers.
I went back and found every Android phone shipped in the United States 1 up through the middle of last year. I then tracked down every update that was released for each device - be it a major OS upgrade or a minor support patch - as well as prices and release & discontinuation dates. I compared these dates & versions to the currently shipping version of Android at the time. The resulting picture isn’t pretty - well, not for Android users:
I found this i didnt write this
Other than the original G1 and MyTouch, virtually all of the millions of phones represented by this chart are still under contract today. If you thought that entitled you to some support, think again:
7 of the 18 Android phones never ran a current version of the OS. 12 of 18 only ran a current version of the OS for a matter of weeks or less. 10 of 18 were at least two major versions behind well within their two year contract period. 11 of 18 stopped getting any support updates less than a year after release. 13 of 18 stopped getting any support updates before they even stopped selling the device or very shortly thereafter. 15 of 18 don’t run Gingerbread, which shipped in December 2010. In a few weeks, when Ice Cream Sandwich comes out, every device on here will be another major version behind. At least 16 of 18 will almost certainly never get Ice Cream Sandwich.
Also worth noting that each bar in the chart starts from the first day of release - so it only gets worse for people who bought their phone late in its sales period.
Why Is This So Bad? This may be stating the obvious but there are at least three major reasons.
Consumers Get Screwed Ever since the iPhone turned every smartphone into a blank slate, the value of a phone is largely derived from the software it can run and how well the phone can run it. When you’re making a 2 year commitment to a device, it’d be nice to have some way to tell if the software was going to be remotely current in a year or, heck, even a month. Turns out that’s nearly impossible - here are two examples:
The Samsung Behold II on T-Mobile was the most expensive Android phone ever and Samsung promoted that it would get a major update to Eclair at least. But at launch the phone was already two major versions behind — and then Samsung decided not to do the update after all, and it fell three major OS versions behind. Every one ever sold is still under contract today.
The Motorola Devour on Verizon launched with a Megan Fox Super Bowl ad, while reviews said it was “built to last and it delivers on features.” As it turned out, the Devour shipped with an OS that was already outdated. Before the next Super Bowl came around, it was three major versions behind. Every one ever sold is still under contract until sometime next year.
Developers Are Constrained Besides the obvious platform fragmentation problems, consider this comparison: iOS developers, like Instapaper’s Marco Arment, waited patiently until just this month to raise their apps’ minimum requirement to the 11 month old iOS 4.2.1. They can do so knowing that it’s been well over 3 years since anyone bought an iPhone that couldn’t run that OS. If developers apply that same standard to Android, it will be at least 2015 before they can start requiring 2010’s Gingerbread OS. That’s because every US carrier is still selling - even just now introducing 2 - smartphones that will almost certainly never run Gingerbread and beyond. Further, those are phones still selling for actual upfront money - I’m not even counting the generally even more outdated & presumably much more popular free phones.
It seems this is one area the Android/Windows comparison holds up: most app developers will end up targeting an ancient version of the OS in order to maximize market reach.
Security Risks Loom In the chart, the dashed line in the middle of each bar indicates how long that phone was getting any kind of support updates - not just major OS upgrades. The significant majority of models have received very limited support after sales were discontinued. If a security or privacy problem popped up in old versions of Android or its associated apps (i.e. the browser), it’s hard to imagine that all of these no-longer-supported phones would be updated. This is only less likely as the number of phones that manufacturers would have to go back and deal with increases: Motorola, Samsung, and HTC all have at least 20 models each in the field already, each with a range of carriers that seemingly have to be dealt with individually.
Why Don’t Android Phones Get Updated? That’s a very good question. Obviously a big part of the problem is that Android has to go from Google to the phone manufacturers to the carriers to the devices, whereas iOS just goes from Apple directly to devices. The hacker community (e.g. CyanogenMod, et cetera) has frequently managed to get these phones to run the newer operating systems, so it isn’t a hardware issue.
It appears to be a widely held viewpoint 3 that there’s no incentive for smartphone manufacturers to update the OS: because manufacturers don’t make any money after the hardware sale, they want you to buy another phone as soon as possible. If that’s really the case, the phone manufacturers are spectacularly dumb: ignoring the 2 year contract cycle & abandoning your users isn’t going to engender much loyalty when they do buy a new phone. Further, it’s been fairly well established that Apple also really only makes money from hardware sales, and yet their long term update support is excellent (see chart).
In other words, Apple’s way of getting you to buy a new phone is to make you really happy with your current one, whereas apparently Android phone makers think they can get you to buy a new phone by making you really unhappy with your current one. Then again, all of this may be ascribing motives and intent where none exist - it’s entirely possible that
th your current one. Then again, all of this may be ascribing motives and intent where none exist - it’s entirely possible that the root cause of the problem is just flat-out bad management (and/or the aforementioned spectacular dumbness).
A Price Observation All of the even slightly cheaper phones are much worse than the iPhone when it comes to OS support, but it’s interesting to note that most of the phones on this list were actually not cheaper than the iPhone when they were released. Unlike the iPhone however, the “full-priced” phones are frequently discounted in subsequent months. So the “low cost” phones that fueled Android’s generally accepted price advantage in this period were basically either (a) cheaper from the outset, and ergo likely outdated & terribly supported or (b) purchased later in the phone’s lifecycle, and ergo likely outdated & terribly supported.
Also, at any price point you’d better love your rebates. If you’re financially constrained enough to be driven by upfront price, you can’t be that excited about plunking down another $100 cash and waiting weeks or more to get it back. And sometimes all you’re getting back is a “$100 Promotion Card” for your chosen provider. Needless to say, the iPhone has never had a rebate.
Along similar lines, a very small but perhaps telling point: the price of every single Android phone I looked at ended with 99 cents - something Apple has never done (the iPhone is $199, not $199.99). It’s almost like a warning sign: you’re buying a platform that will nickel-and-dime you with ads and undeletable bloatware, and it starts with those 99 cents. And that damn rebate form they’re hoping you don’t send in.
Notes on the chart and data Why stop at June 2010? I’m not going to. I do think that having 15 months or so of history gives a good perspective on how a phone has been treated, but it’s also just a labor issue - it takes a while to dredge through the various sites to determine the history of each device. I plan to continue on and might also try to publish the underlying table with references. I also acknowledge that it’s possible I’ve missed something along the way.
Android Release Dates For the major Android version release dates, I used the date at which it was actually available on a normal phone you could get via normal means. I did not use the earlier SDK release date, nor the date at which ROMs, hacks, source, et cetera were available.
Outside the US Finally, it’s worth noting that people outside the US have often had it even worse. For example, the Nexus One didn’t go on sale in Europe until 5 months after the US, the Droid/Milestone FroYo update happened over 7 months later there, and the Cliq never got updated at all outside of the US.
Im not a fanboy i despise apple and the ios just thought this waz intersting because its true devices are not supported nearly enough
Agreed. And a good read too, even thought there was not much new info here I didnt know except some of your stats.. but what is the point here? Are you trying to accomplish something? or convince people to buy iPhones or Nexus phones? or rally us to join together and demand updates from carriers? Or just a general discussion so we can get some frustration out or..?
Fits right in the ATRIX forum, right?
No someone posted that link on motos facebook just figured id share. Ill always be an android user even if they never update devices. Just thought was an intersting article. I ignored the iphone parts but i guess updates is a bigger problem then i realized and hope the manufacturers abd google stop this and start supporting devices longer.
Mabye all android users need too start complaining too google and the manufacturers about this because . All over xda and other forums people are not happy about updates. Is a hot . . topic would be nice to not need a device every couple months to stay on a current os. And now with the dual core phone that are supposed too be futre proff. Lol yeah right even when quad cores are out the manufactures will continue this trend drop support on current devices so people have too buy a new one too enjoy new android flavors. But i really hope something changes that
All I gotta say is that we are well within our 18 months of support. Motorola needs to read that memo...
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apple has one software iteration per year, while android has gone through 3 in the last 1.5 years.
The question is does this really matter when these same devices (or at least most of them) still run the most current is through the help of CM?
Why would the manufacturer waste their resources when users can run a cm copy already?
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crossix said:
The question is does this really matter when these same devices (or at least most of them) still run the most current is through the help of CM?
Why would the manufacturer waste their resources when users can run a cm copy already?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Us CM users (actually, ROM users in general) are in the vast minority of Android users. A very vocal minority, but a minority nontheless. So it hurts the manufacture's bottom line when these updates dont happen.
I have 3 friends that own an LG Ally. A mid range phone. And all 3 don't give a damn which android version they're on. They all got it for free with a 2 year contract. I feel they got ripped off. But again they don't care and I wish I had their attitude. :/
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dLo GSR said:
apple has one software iteration per year, while android has gone through 3 in the last 1.5 years.
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That's why people on Engadget are bragging that they can put IOS5 on their 3GS phones. Heck even Nokia is getting Anna and Belle within a couple of months on a completely dead OS.
Make it happen Motorola, (even if it's 2012) or many will be going to Samsung...
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Agreed my point in posting this is the manufactures need too suport us longer its ridicilous ifour hardware now can run new android flavors ajd it doesnt happen because there too greedy and want us too buy new devices constantly. I should have erased all the ios partsbelieve me all ios is just a pretty app launcher . Pretty much adw or launcher pro sums up the functionaloty of ios. And i wouldnt ever leave android even if i was offered an iphone 5 free
This is a dual core phone yes theres several on the market but its not yet even the standard most people are still runing single core androids so too me if we dont see an official ics ota pretty darn ridicilous
crossix said:
The question is does this really matter when these same devices (or at least most of them) still run the most current is through the help of CM?
Why would the manufacturer waste their resources when users can run a cm copy already?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Because they can't plan around warranty voiding 3rd party modifications. Not to mention Joe Blow wont open advanced settings, let alone flash a ROM. Ever do tech support? People are stupid.
Which sums up the thread. Yes we are being gauged on these phones, and it works.... because people as a whole don't know or care.
Want to spread the word on that graph? Dumb it down, add a cat or two, put it in a black caption box with some generic 'meme' text and post it on Failbook.
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Haha thank u i agree with u and thats hilarious because its true dumb it down and put it on fail book haha.
I think it has to due more with the fact that every 6 months there is a new hardware sequel to your phone.
Apple has less phone models in 5 years then Samsung, Motorola, HTC, etc. have in a single year.They are all focused on this hardware cold-war at the expense of software.
Our phones may only be 6-12 months old for us, but to the manufacturer, they are already 3 generations back...
What happened to this?
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