Related
Just wanted to say - I got my Xoom, and yes, I do see some freezes and weird behavior every once in a while.
It doesn't bother me though.
We're all early adopters helping to push Honeycomb forward. Since Xoom is the only tablet atm that uses honeycomb, and it's a pure "Google Experience Device", I'm sure we'll have updates from ElGoog soon and often. Plus, this device is a heaven for developmental though and experimentation, so I'm sure we'll see great things from our local genuises at XDA.
So everyone chill and enjoy a rare opportunity to be there when it all starts =)
DarkDvr said:
Just wanted to say - I got my Xoom, and yes, I do see some freezes and weird behavior every once in a while.
It doesn't bother me though.
We're all early adopters helping to push Honeycomb forward. Since Xoom is the only tablet atm that uses honeycomb, and it's a pure "Google Experience Device", I'm sure we'll have updates from ElGoog soon and often. Plus, this device is a heaven for developmental though and experimentation, so I'm sure we'll see great things from our local genuises at XDA.
So everyone chill and enjoy a rare opportunity to be there when it all starts =)
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Click to collapse
I have had mine since the doors opened at Costco here in South Florida and I have not had one freeze or force close. I think people may be loading up apps that are not designed for Honeycomb causing issues. For the most part, I am sticking to Honeycomb apps only with a few exceptions. I am also not loading alternate launchers like ADW. I suspect loading things like this will cause problems.
Yea I couldn't agree more.just be patient.we'll have a flash update coming within two weeks also.I love my Xoom
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
keitht said:
I have had mine since the doors opened at Costco here in South Florida and I have not had one freeze or force close. I think people may be loading up apps that are not designed for Honeycomb causing issues. For the most part, I am sticking to Honeycomb apps only with a few exceptions. I am also not loading alternate launchers like ADW. I suspect loading things like this will cause problems.
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Click to collapse
+1 mines never froze, fc'd or lagged either. Its a little slow rotating sometimes but its not an issue.
Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk
I read a post yesterday, I can't remember by who, saying that this "Early Adopter" argument is invalid. I believe it was because it would be easy for all tech-companies to take advantage of this and release crappy products that they know consumers will eat up and look past the issues because they know they are "early adopters". As much as I don't like to repeatedly mention Apple, it doesn't seem that they release products riddled with bugs and expect their consumers to shrug it off and say "Oh yea, we're just early adopters, these bugs don't matter!".
Nothing can be perfect obviously, but things can be more perfect than others. Why release something so unfinished when you can release it later in a more complete state? I don't have a Xoom yet, but it seems that Honeycomb was rushed out the door much too quickly. Did Google do this to beat the iPad 2 in the market race? We all know it will still easily sale millions.. they could've waited.
Apple doesn't release products before they are ready? Really? Have you used an iPhone 4 and tried to make a phone call? Did you used an Ipad when it first came out? It had no software for it. Once competition comes and millions of people buy android tablets, the developers will come.
While I agree I would of prefered and more polished Honeycomb, there are ALWAYS growing pains with new technology...especially with brand a new OS. My xoom, like wine, will only get better with age.
Just give it time. It isn't a half assed product....it just needs some software updates. Lets all be happy that soon the mod community is going to do things with it that won't be possible with other devices.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
Yeah. It's not halfassed. Only about 5% assed.
I think the update will work wonders.
Eclair~ said:
I read a post yesterday, I can't remember by who, saying that this "Early Adopter" argument is invalid. I believe it was because it would be easy for all tech-companies to take advantage of this and release crappy products that they know consumers will eat up and look past the issues because they know they are "early adopters". As much as I don't like to repeatedly mention Apple, it doesn't seem that they release products riddled with bugs and expect their consumers to shrug it off and say "Oh yea, we're just early adopters, these bugs don't matter!".
Nothing can be perfect obviously, but things can be more perfect than others. Why release something so unfinished when you can release it later in a more complete state? I don't have a Xoom yet, but it seems that Honeycomb was rushed out the door much too quickly. Did Google do this to beat the iPad 2 in the market race? We all know it will still easily sale millions.. they could've waited.
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Click to collapse
I just wonder how you can give a valid opinion about something you don't own. It would be like me giving an opinion on a ferrari italia.
Eclair~ said:
I read a post yesterday, I can't remember by who, saying that this "Early Adopter" argument is invalid. I believe it was because it would be easy for all tech-companies to take advantage of this and release crappy products that they know consumers will eat up and look past the issues because they know they are "early adopters". As much as I don't like to repeatedly mention Apple, it doesn't seem that they release products riddled with bugs and expect their consumers to shrug it off and say "Oh yea, we're just early adopters, these bugs don't matter!".
Nothing can be perfect obviously, but things can be more perfect than others. Why release something so unfinished when you can release it later in a more complete state? I don't have a Xoom yet, but it seems that Honeycomb was rushed out the door much too quickly. Did Google do this to beat the iPad 2 in the market race? We all know it will still easily sale millions.. they could've waited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i am using my bt keyboard on the xoom. honeycomb is quite e finished product in terms of its normal use. ive not had one freeze or rrreboot. i had one force close becasue i tried to run a rdp/vnc app. it force closed and i move to next app which did work for controlling my pc. you have people on here either talking without owning the product or loading things not designed or updated for this hardware OR software. such as flashlight apps, launchers, etc. ive used all the apps designed for tablets in the market and ive had no issues. ive played the couple of free games (which performed quite well) and used things as simple as the weather app. smooth sailing. i WOULD like to see more apps (like dish networks sling app) but thats not moto or googles fault.
the bugs ive read about in most topics dont happen to me. im gonna be testing the 720 rip playback later as i havent moved much media to mine yet.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
keitht said:
I have had mine since the doors opened at Costco here in South Florida and I have not had one freeze or force close. I think people may be loading up apps that are not designed for Honeycomb causing issues. For the most part, I am sticking to Honeycomb apps only with a few exceptions. I am also not loading alternate launchers like ADW. I suspect loading things like this will cause problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, I was first in line at my South Fla Costco...lol. You must have gone to Flagler.
I've had a few FC's but I'll admit they were mainly on the first day. Since then I've been good.
colbyb25 said:
Apple doesn't release products before they are ready? Really? Have you used an iPhone 4 and tried to make a phone call? Did you used an Ipad when it first came out? It had no software for it. Once competition comes and millions of people buy android tablets, the developers will come.
While I agree I would of prefered and more polished Honeycomb, there are ALWAYS growing pains with new technology...especially with brand a new OS. My xoom, like wine, will only get better with age.
Just give it time. It isn't a half assed product....it just needs some software updates. Lets all be happy that soon the mod community is going to do things with it that won't be possible with other devices.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
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Click to collapse
The iPhone4 was a design decision. Had they waited 3 more months it still would have had that same problem.
The iPad had over a thousand third party apps at launch, what are you talking about?
And Android isn't going to compete in the tablet world by releasing beta tablets with buggy software. A normal user would have returned the Xoom after seeing 7 apps at launch, no flash at launch, non functional SD card slot, buggy OS and apps force closing. If normal users see this as their first impression of a Google tablet, that will stick with them for a while. The "early adopter" nonsense is absolutely the worst argument that anyone could make.
atoy74 said:
Hey, I was first in line at my South Fla Costco...lol. You must have gone to Flagler.
I've had a few FC's but I'll admit they were mainly on the first day. Since then I've been good.
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Click to collapse
I went to Pompano Beach Costco. The Verizon guy there gave me trouble with the activation thing. I had to keep pushing him to call more people. Each person he called at Verizon didn't know about the change that activation is not required. Hopefully I helped anyone that came after me
I had two freezes while playing cordy. There was an update for it yesterday that seems to have fixed it. Other than that I have not had any stability issues, just some minor graphical issues.
As far as Apple stability goes am I the only one old enough to remember the axiom "never buy a first Gen apple product."? Apple is somewhat notorious for problems with first Gen products.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
muyoso said:
The iPhone4 was a design decision. Had they waited 3 more months it still would have had that same problem.
The iPad had over a thousand third party apps at launch, what are you talking about?
And Android isn't going to compete in the tablet world by releasing beta tablets with buggy software. A normal user would have returned the Xoom after seeing 7 apps at launch, no flash at launch, non functional SD card slot, buggy OS and apps force closing. If normal users see this as their first impression of a Google tablet, that will stick with them for a while. The "early adopter" nonsense is absolutely the worst argument that anyone could make.
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Click to collapse
I'm glad you knew this, I was starting to think I had no argument.
JanetPanic said:
I had two freezes while playing cordy. There was an update for it yesterday that seems to have fixed it. Other than that I have not had any stability issues, just some minor graphical issues.
As far as Apple stability goes am I the only one old enough to remember the axiom "never buy a first Gen apple product."? Apple is somewhat notorious for problems with first Gen products.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I think you can say the same with most companies that release version 1 products.
Eclair~ said:
I read a post yesterday, I can't remember by who, saying that this "Early Adopter" argument is invalid. I believe it was because it would be easy for all tech-companies to take advantage of this and release crappy products that they know consumers will eat up and look past the issues because they know they are "early adopters". As much as I don't like to repeatedly mention Apple, it doesn't seem that they release products riddled with bugs and expect their consumers to shrug it off and say "Oh yea, we're just early adopters, these bugs don't matter!".
Nothing can be perfect obviously, but things can be more perfect than others. Why release something so unfinished when you can release it later in a more complete state? I don't have a Xoom yet, but it seems that Honeycomb was rushed out the door much too quickly. Did Google do this to beat the iPad 2 in the market race? We all know it will still easily sale millions.. they could've waited.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously they could have waited, its about supply and demand. The demand was there, so they got it out as fast as they could in working order. It has its problems, software problems, I love it it and didnt want to wait a day longer. They know what they're doing, google isn't Microsoft lol. It works, we want it, were willing to sacrifice a little functionality to be able to have it now, we love it , if you don't like the problems then thats your problem dont cry about i, either don't get one or wait to get one, everyone who bought it knew for the most part what types of problems we might come across, nobody is making you buy it nor keep it! You have no right to speculate on why they should or should not have released it like this, only the right to not buy or use it
parrotheadmjb said:
Obviously they could have waited, its about supply and demand. The demand was there, so they got it out as fast as they could in working order. It has its problems, software problems, I love it it and didnt want to wait a day longer. They know what they're doing, google isn't Microsoft lol. It works, we want it, were willing to sacrifice a little functionality to be able to have it now, we love it , if you don't like the problems then thats your problem dont cry about i, either don't get one or wait to get one, everyone who bought it knew for the most part what types of problems we might come across, nobody is making you buy it nor keep it! You have no right to speculate on why they should or should not have released it like this, only the right to not buy or use it
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Click to collapse
sorry but a user has every right to gripe about the limitations of the product they purchased.
Google has a history of releasing buggy products, and improving them over time. its just how they do it. (a la google tv, nexus one launch, etc) does that make them a bad company? no. but to a mainstream (non techie) user who uses the product as is, the xoom out of the box is somewhat of a disappointment because of some basic feature limitations at launch. (no software sd support, no flash support, lack of proper video encoding support, which is a surprise as Google is normally great with cross compatibility). I personally feel that the Xoom launch was rushed in order to get as many early adopter sales before the iPad2 hits. I'm verrry sure that had the xoom been released the same time as iPad2 launch date, xoom sales numbers would be much lower.
i was an avid iPad user (gave it away), and currently awaiting for the xoom to arrive in the mail. i'm looking forward to using it.
What you are totally missing is the fact that the majority of apps look and work just fine. None of this "2x" bull crap that apple did with there tablet launch. I ask, did you purchase an Ipad when it first came out? Do you own a Xoom? If no to one or both counts, you lose some credibility with your argument.
No one is giving Motorola or Google a pass, but there is some kind of understanding with new gear. That is not an excuse, but something to take into account. I personally love xoom, both for what is and what it can and will be. You want a completely bug free and flawless piece of equipment, make it yourself. If you have ever ran your own company, you would know that every prouduct and system goes through some level of growing pains.
Too many people think the xoom is supposed to magically outsell the I pad...which will never happen. Apple, if nothing else has done an AMAZING job at marketing and creating demand for their sometimes sub par, at least technologcally, products. That being said, android is picking up steam and offering a solid competition to the ios system. Does it still have a ways to go...sure. But it is heading that way and things are only going to get better from here.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
aohus said:
sorry but a user has every right to gripe about the limitations of the product they purchased.
Google has a history of releasing buggy products, and improving them over time. its just how they do it. (a la google tv, nexus one launch, etc) does that make them a bad company? no. but to a mainstream (non techie) user who uses the product as is, the xoom out of the box is somewhat of a disappointment because of some basic feature limitations at launch. (no software sd support, no flash support, lack of proper video encoding support, which is a surprise as Google is normally great with cross compatibility). I personally feel that the Xoom launch was rushed in order to get as many early adopter sales before the iPad2 hits. I'm verrry sure that had the xoom been released the same time as iPad2 launch date, xoom sales numbers would be much lower.
i was an avid iPad user (gave it away), and currently awaiting for the xoom to arrive in the mail. i'm looking forward to using it.
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Click to collapse
You just contradicted yourself, you said
1. They have the right to complain about the product being released too early
2. Google has a history of releasing buggy products
---
They have no right to complain, they knew in advance or they don't possess the ability to think
Also, you can just return it.... but no *****ing about the obvious is a better idea
Well, the no software argument is pointless, you'll have to wait here. Phone Android didn't start with that much apps either, same for iPhone, Windows, any OS.
http://www.amazon.com/review/R2LLDLIHDUBV84/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R2LLDLIHDUBV84
Let's spread this around and vote it up!!
This is truly an unbiased reviews. It shows the XOOM the way it is, warts and all (not that there are very many warts).
Spot on review.
This is very good review I have no regrets for buying my zoom
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
c1808us said:
This is very good review I have no regrets for buying my zoom
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is your 'zoom' better than my xoom?
The review might be unbiased, but it speaks of a very bad no-no about Motorola products: the bugginess of Honeycomb. This is bad because Motorola doesn't support their non-carrier products with updates and bug fixes. This means when Google updates Honeycomb to fix bugs, Motorola will never use it on the Xoom. What you get when you buy the Xoom is all you will ever have.
I'm glad I read that review. I really like the Xoom I played with at a local Best Buy and was contemplating getting one over an iPad2. Now, however, I know Honeycomb isn't perfect. That isn't to say there's anything wrong with Google mobile OSes, they all are buggy in the beginning, but it is a serious issue for the future. I know I would not ever receive any updates from Motorola...and you can't just flash a direct Honeycomb ROM from Google...so I won't bother with it since HC needs work. I will wait for the Samsung Tablet.
Mod edit: Play nice.
Mod edit: Play nice.
Mod edit: Play nice.
Mod edit: Play nice.
Mod edit: Play nice.
Mod edit: Play nice.
Mod edit: Play nice. (No one cares who you add to your ignore list.)
Grow up.
This has to be the most immature thread I've ever had to suffer through reading. Everyone needs to stop flaming each other, or we will remove you from our community.
I'm not closing / deleting this thread (yet), because I believe the original post has a review that should be read. But don't for a minute think I won't take action against disrespectful users.
We're all adults here, right? I'm here to be your moderator, not your babysitter. Grow up.
MartyLK said:
The review might be unbiased, but it speaks of a very bad no-no about Motorola products: the bugginess of Honeycomb. This is bad because Motorola doesn't support their non-carrier products with updates and bug fixes. This means when Google updates Honeycomb to fix bugs, Motorola will never use it on the Xoom. What you get when you buy the Xoom is all you will ever have.
I'm glad I read that review. I really like the Xoom I played with at a local Best Buy and was contemplating getting one over an iPad2. Now, however, I know Honeycomb isn't perfect. That isn't to say there's anything wrong with Google mobile OSes, they all are buggy in the beginning, but it is a serious issue for the future. I know I would not ever receive any updates from Motorola...and you can't just flash a direct Honeycomb ROM from Google...so I won't bother with it since HC needs work. I will wait for the Samsung Tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the second thread I've seen you mention that Moto doesn't update non-carrier devices. Can you provide some reference here? I'm trying to understand how you think that the XOOM isn't going to get updates, especially since it has already received one and there are more on the way. The XOOM is a Google experience device and will get updates, and quicker than the Samsung products which will have to wait for TouchWiz to be pasted over top. After watching many Galaxy S users on carriers in the US wait for Froyo Samsung would be the last manufacturer I'd purchase from.
Back to the review, I also thought it was balanced. iOS is always very polished though it may lack some functionality and features. What it does do it typically does well. The iPad 2 is a device that my wife would appreciate very much and the XOOM is a device that I would prefer and will eventually pick up. I spent a number of years with Nokia Maemo tablets, waiting for Nokia and the community to fix issues and develop. I see a way better experience to come here than I did there.
this sounds like a similar review someone gave awhile ago - I'm still hoping my Xoom comes through next week...
also yes as mentioned - Motorola won't be updating the OS on Xoom - Google will be providing the updates - which is fine - it's one of the good reasons to buy one over the Samsung
great review really... I know the iPad 2 has pros over the XOOM but most pros are due to lack of user knowledge (like interface or apps...) so this is a spot-on review for people like us who know their mobile OS
I can't wait to get mine ... damn best buy canada... april 15th pre-order
Gorgonesh said:
T he XOOM is a Google experience device and will get updates, and quicker than the Samsung products which will have to wait for TouchWiz to be pasted over top. After watching many Galaxy S users on carriers in the US wait for Froyo Samsung would be the last manufacturer I'd purchase from.
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Click to collapse
It seems a lot of people over here on the Xoom boards are desperately trying to convince themselves that the Samsung tablets will be horribly undated devices. While I can see by their track records that this may most likely be the scenario, they do actually manage to properly update some of their devices. And it should not be that difficult at all to update 2 tablets with little carrier interaction.
Considering the fact that the Samsung tablets have a better screen and a more thinner profile, I would most likely get them over the Xoom regardless of Samsung's interaction.
Gorgonesh said:
This is the second thread I've seen you mention that Moto doesn't update non-carrier devices. Can you provide some reference here? I'm trying to understand how you think that the XOOM isn't going to get updates, especially since it has already received one and there are more on the way. The XOOM is a Google experience device and will get updates, and quicker than the Samsung products which will have to wait for TouchWiz to be pasted over top. After watching many Galaxy S users on carriers in the US wait for Froyo Samsung would be the last manufacturer I'd purchase from.
Back to the review, I also thought it was balanced. iOS is always very polished though it may lack some functionality and features. What it does do it typically does well. The iPad 2 is a device that my wife would appreciate very much and the XOOM is a device that I would prefer and will eventually pick up. I spent a number of years with Nokia Maemo tablets, waiting for Nokia and the community to fix issues and develop. I see a way better experience to come here than I did there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I provided a link in my...erm...second post in this thread, I think it was. My main concern with buying devices of this nature that need updating often is that the makers might tend to disregard their products once they are bought. I'm not rich enough to take a chance on it. Motorola has been known to not support their products over their lifetime so that people will be moved to replace the product with a newer one. Motorola, Samsung, LG and pretty much all of the companies that make devices of this nature do the same. They are in this business with one motive: to make more money. They can't make money wasting time supporting older devices...even though they should. Motorola is in the worse position of them all because they are barely hanging on in the market.
When you know this about a company and then read user reviews that say the same thing, you know there is a serious issue. The link I posted was of a user review on Amazon that says the same thing I do. I already had this knowledge of Motorola prior to reading or knowing of the Amazon user review.
When I made my first post in this section...a completely different thread...I wasn't mindful of this concern with Motorola devices. Then, after having issued the post, I read this thread and started thinking about what I already know and have heard about not just Motorola but all of these device makers. It caused me to have a change of heart about seeking to acquire a Xoom or even the Samsung tablet, when it arrives.
This is why I made additional posts on the matter, to which some people accused me of trolling rather than understanding what had happened. They chose to quickly jump to the assumption I was being a troll rather than contemplating the situation and giving the benefit of the doubt. Their error is not my fault.
I own many Apple products and never respond negatively to people who spit out trash talk about them. I own many other products that get trash-talked from time to time. But I never respond negatively because I allow humans the freedom of saying what they want. They, however, refuse to allow me the same freedom.
Gorgonesh said:
This is the second thread I've seen you mention that Moto doesn't update non-carrier devices. Can you provide some reference here? I'm trying to understand how you think that the XOOM isn't going to get updates, especially since it has already received one and there are more on the way. The XOOM is a Google experience device and will get updates, and quicker than the Samsung products which will have to wait for TouchWiz to be pasted over top. After watching many Galaxy S users on carriers in the US wait for Froyo Samsung would be the last manufacturer I'd purchase from.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, I don't know where this perception is coming from.
Also, don't forget that HTC tablets will get delayed updates as well since they'll be running Sense for HC. Looks like Xoom might be the one getting the quickest updates since we're still on the stock HC experience.
The announcement that Nexus One users won’t be getting upgraded to Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich led some to justifiably question Google’s support of their devices. I look at it a little differently: Nexus One owners are lucky. I’ve been researching the history of OS updates on Android phones and Nexus One users have fared much, much better than most Android buyers.
I went back and found every Android phone shipped in the United States 1 up through the middle of last year. I then tracked down every update that was released for each device - be it a major OS upgrade or a minor support patch - as well as prices and release & discontinuation dates. I compared these dates & versions to the currently shipping version of Android at the time. The resulting picture isn’t pretty - well, not for Android users:
I found this i didnt write this
Other than the original G1 and MyTouch, virtually all of the millions of phones represented by this chart are still under contract today. If you thought that entitled you to some support, think again:
7 of the 18 Android phones never ran a current version of the OS. 12 of 18 only ran a current version of the OS for a matter of weeks or less. 10 of 18 were at least two major versions behind well within their two year contract period. 11 of 18 stopped getting any support updates less than a year after release. 13 of 18 stopped getting any support updates before they even stopped selling the device or very shortly thereafter. 15 of 18 don’t run Gingerbread, which shipped in December 2010. In a few weeks, when Ice Cream Sandwich comes out, every device on here will be another major version behind. At least 16 of 18 will almost certainly never get Ice Cream Sandwich.
Also worth noting that each bar in the chart starts from the first day of release - so it only gets worse for people who bought their phone late in its sales period.
Why Is This So Bad? This may be stating the obvious but there are at least three major reasons.
Consumers Get Screwed Ever since the iPhone turned every smartphone into a blank slate, the value of a phone is largely derived from the software it can run and how well the phone can run it. When you’re making a 2 year commitment to a device, it’d be nice to have some way to tell if the software was going to be remotely current in a year or, heck, even a month. Turns out that’s nearly impossible - here are two examples:
The Samsung Behold II on T-Mobile was the most expensive Android phone ever and Samsung promoted that it would get a major update to Eclair at least. But at launch the phone was already two major versions behind — and then Samsung decided not to do the update after all, and it fell three major OS versions behind. Every one ever sold is still under contract today.
The Motorola Devour on Verizon launched with a Megan Fox Super Bowl ad, while reviews said it was “built to last and it delivers on features.” As it turned out, the Devour shipped with an OS that was already outdated. Before the next Super Bowl came around, it was three major versions behind. Every one ever sold is still under contract until sometime next year.
Developers Are Constrained Besides the obvious platform fragmentation problems, consider this comparison: iOS developers, like Instapaper’s Marco Arment, waited patiently until just this month to raise their apps’ minimum requirement to the 11 month old iOS 4.2.1. They can do so knowing that it’s been well over 3 years since anyone bought an iPhone that couldn’t run that OS. If developers apply that same standard to Android, it will be at least 2015 before they can start requiring 2010’s Gingerbread OS. That’s because every US carrier is still selling - even just now introducing 2 - smartphones that will almost certainly never run Gingerbread and beyond. Further, those are phones still selling for actual upfront money - I’m not even counting the generally even more outdated & presumably much more popular free phones.
It seems this is one area the Android/Windows comparison holds up: most app developers will end up targeting an ancient version of the OS in order to maximize market reach.
Security Risks Loom In the chart, the dashed line in the middle of each bar indicates how long that phone was getting any kind of support updates - not just major OS upgrades. The significant majority of models have received very limited support after sales were discontinued. If a security or privacy problem popped up in old versions of Android or its associated apps (i.e. the browser), it’s hard to imagine that all of these no-longer-supported phones would be updated. This is only less likely as the number of phones that manufacturers would have to go back and deal with increases: Motorola, Samsung, and HTC all have at least 20 models each in the field already, each with a range of carriers that seemingly have to be dealt with individually.
Why Don’t Android Phones Get Updated? That’s a very good question. Obviously a big part of the problem is that Android has to go from Google to the phone manufacturers to the carriers to the devices, whereas iOS just goes from Apple directly to devices. The hacker community (e.g. CyanogenMod, et cetera) has frequently managed to get these phones to run the newer operating systems, so it isn’t a hardware issue.
It appears to be a widely held viewpoint 3 that there’s no incentive for smartphone manufacturers to update the OS: because manufacturers don’t make any money after the hardware sale, they want you to buy another phone as soon as possible. If that’s really the case, the phone manufacturers are spectacularly dumb: ignoring the 2 year contract cycle & abandoning your users isn’t going to engender much loyalty when they do buy a new phone. Further, it’s been fairly well established that Apple also really only makes money from hardware sales, and yet their long term update support is excellent (see chart).
In other words, Apple’s way of getting you to buy a new phone is to make you really happy with your current one, whereas apparently Android phone makers think they can get you to buy a new phone by making you really unhappy with your current one. Then again, all of this may be ascribing motives and intent where none exist - it’s entirely possible that
th your current one. Then again, all of this may be ascribing motives and intent where none exist - it’s entirely possible that the root cause of the problem is just flat-out bad management (and/or the aforementioned spectacular dumbness).
A Price Observation All of the even slightly cheaper phones are much worse than the iPhone when it comes to OS support, but it’s interesting to note that most of the phones on this list were actually not cheaper than the iPhone when they were released. Unlike the iPhone however, the “full-priced” phones are frequently discounted in subsequent months. So the “low cost” phones that fueled Android’s generally accepted price advantage in this period were basically either (a) cheaper from the outset, and ergo likely outdated & terribly supported or (b) purchased later in the phone’s lifecycle, and ergo likely outdated & terribly supported.
Also, at any price point you’d better love your rebates. If you’re financially constrained enough to be driven by upfront price, you can’t be that excited about plunking down another $100 cash and waiting weeks or more to get it back. And sometimes all you’re getting back is a “$100 Promotion Card” for your chosen provider. Needless to say, the iPhone has never had a rebate.
Along similar lines, a very small but perhaps telling point: the price of every single Android phone I looked at ended with 99 cents - something Apple has never done (the iPhone is $199, not $199.99). It’s almost like a warning sign: you’re buying a platform that will nickel-and-dime you with ads and undeletable bloatware, and it starts with those 99 cents. And that damn rebate form they’re hoping you don’t send in.
Notes on the chart and data Why stop at June 2010? I’m not going to. I do think that having 15 months or so of history gives a good perspective on how a phone has been treated, but it’s also just a labor issue - it takes a while to dredge through the various sites to determine the history of each device. I plan to continue on and might also try to publish the underlying table with references. I also acknowledge that it’s possible I’ve missed something along the way.
Android Release Dates For the major Android version release dates, I used the date at which it was actually available on a normal phone you could get via normal means. I did not use the earlier SDK release date, nor the date at which ROMs, hacks, source, et cetera were available.
Outside the US Finally, it’s worth noting that people outside the US have often had it even worse. For example, the Nexus One didn’t go on sale in Europe until 5 months after the US, the Droid/Milestone FroYo update happened over 7 months later there, and the Cliq never got updated at all outside of the US.
Im not a fanboy i despise apple and the ios just thought this waz intersting because its true devices are not supported nearly enough
Agreed. And a good read too, even thought there was not much new info here I didnt know except some of your stats.. but what is the point here? Are you trying to accomplish something? or convince people to buy iPhones or Nexus phones? or rally us to join together and demand updates from carriers? Or just a general discussion so we can get some frustration out or..?
Fits right in the ATRIX forum, right?
No someone posted that link on motos facebook just figured id share. Ill always be an android user even if they never update devices. Just thought was an intersting article. I ignored the iphone parts but i guess updates is a bigger problem then i realized and hope the manufacturers abd google stop this and start supporting devices longer.
Mabye all android users need too start complaining too google and the manufacturers about this because . All over xda and other forums people are not happy about updates. Is a hot . . topic would be nice to not need a device every couple months to stay on a current os. And now with the dual core phone that are supposed too be futre proff. Lol yeah right even when quad cores are out the manufactures will continue this trend drop support on current devices so people have too buy a new one too enjoy new android flavors. But i really hope something changes that
All I gotta say is that we are well within our 18 months of support. Motorola needs to read that memo...
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
apple has one software iteration per year, while android has gone through 3 in the last 1.5 years.
The question is does this really matter when these same devices (or at least most of them) still run the most current is through the help of CM?
Why would the manufacturer waste their resources when users can run a cm copy already?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
crossix said:
The question is does this really matter when these same devices (or at least most of them) still run the most current is through the help of CM?
Why would the manufacturer waste their resources when users can run a cm copy already?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Us CM users (actually, ROM users in general) are in the vast minority of Android users. A very vocal minority, but a minority nontheless. So it hurts the manufacture's bottom line when these updates dont happen.
I have 3 friends that own an LG Ally. A mid range phone. And all 3 don't give a damn which android version they're on. They all got it for free with a 2 year contract. I feel they got ripped off. But again they don't care and I wish I had their attitude. :/
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
dLo GSR said:
apple has one software iteration per year, while android has gone through 3 in the last 1.5 years.
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That's why people on Engadget are bragging that they can put IOS5 on their 3GS phones. Heck even Nokia is getting Anna and Belle within a couple of months on a completely dead OS.
Make it happen Motorola, (even if it's 2012) or many will be going to Samsung...
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Agreed my point in posting this is the manufactures need too suport us longer its ridicilous ifour hardware now can run new android flavors ajd it doesnt happen because there too greedy and want us too buy new devices constantly. I should have erased all the ios partsbelieve me all ios is just a pretty app launcher . Pretty much adw or launcher pro sums up the functionaloty of ios. And i wouldnt ever leave android even if i was offered an iphone 5 free
This is a dual core phone yes theres several on the market but its not yet even the standard most people are still runing single core androids so too me if we dont see an official ics ota pretty darn ridicilous
crossix said:
The question is does this really matter when these same devices (or at least most of them) still run the most current is through the help of CM?
Why would the manufacturer waste their resources when users can run a cm copy already?
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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Because they can't plan around warranty voiding 3rd party modifications. Not to mention Joe Blow wont open advanced settings, let alone flash a ROM. Ever do tech support? People are stupid.
Which sums up the thread. Yes we are being gauged on these phones, and it works.... because people as a whole don't know or care.
Want to spread the word on that graph? Dumb it down, add a cat or two, put it in a black caption box with some generic 'meme' text and post it on Failbook.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Haha thank u i agree with u and thats hilarious because its true dumb it down and put it on fail book haha.
I think it has to due more with the fact that every 6 months there is a new hardware sequel to your phone.
Apple has less phone models in 5 years then Samsung, Motorola, HTC, etc. have in a single year.They are all focused on this hardware cold-war at the expense of software.
Our phones may only be 6-12 months old for us, but to the manufacturer, they are already 3 generations back...
What happened to this?
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium
Read before posting regarding any future updates ("Jelly Bean") and transformer tf101
People need to stop worrying and asking about when ASUS will release the ICS update.
Its not like they said they will never update it or they have dropped support. And don't forget how often we had updates during honeycomb and how quickly things were patched. More often then other competition devices.
There is a lot of work put into making a working device. The developers on xda itself take a long time before they have anything fully functional. Not to mention trying to troubleshoot the bugs that pop up.
1) Google releases the source code for the operating system. Once its released developers have to comb through the whole source dump to understand whats going on and what has to be done before doing anything. And its not just one developer who has to do this, but the entire team thats working on it. It takes time. (They have a life too so give them a break)
2) Then the most important and the most dificult part is getting the drivers incorporated properly and making sure they are functioning. It might sound easy but its not. Most of the time making something work might break something else (same goes for fixing bugs).
3) Not everything happens in one go. Just like the developers here on xda have alpha and beta releases, so do techs at any company (i.e. AUSU). The builds have to be tested and tested and retested before gettng approval.
4) No company is obliged to give any software updates. And if they are then they can release the update when they feel like it. Even if you abandon or sell this device and buy another android device, it will most likely also be in this same situation.
5) NOT EVERY OWNER OF ASUS TRANSFORMER TF101 IS ON XDA or CARES ABOUT ROOT. There are a mojority of owners that have little to no knowledge regarding rooting, roms, upgrades, or even xda. And most of them dont really care as long as the device is functioning properly. Thus releasing a premature update to the masses will be wrong and very bad for marketing.
6) Remember that a new android os is released almost every 6-7 months. So the whole process has to start all over again. And not to mention that most devices that have gingerbread will be getting their ICS update by the end of 1st quarter or during the 2nd quarter (mostly the information given by the companies are very unreliable and could take longer or the devices might get abandoned). And by the time those devices get ICS updated, there will be another android version ready to be released.
7) IT WILL BE RELEASED WHEN ITS READY. So dont fill the general forum section with threads regarding the release of ICS. The whole first page is filled with it already. (I am sorry that i added this to the list too but seriously people need to calm down a little).
Oh no, another ICS TF101 thread!!!!
shahbaz5588, your post was well reasoned and displayed both logic and common sense, and it's a damn shame that none of it seems to have any place here.
Shahbaz5588, please read this thread before posting another ICS thread. Jesus christ...
@goodintentions lol atleast people will read it twice now
I kinda wish for ASUS to be more transparent with their consumers.
Just what we need a new mod with 24 posts posting on ICS.
So, tl;dr: Developing is hard, shut the **** up and suck it up?
I don't think so.
sh
shahbaz5588 said:
People need to stop worrying and asking about when ASUS will release the ICS update.
Its not like they said they will never update it or they have dropped support. And don't forget how often we had updates during honeycomb and how quickly things were patched. More often then other competition devices.
There is a lot of work put into making a working device. The developers on xda itself take a long time before they have anything fully functional. Not to mention trying to troubleshoot the bugs that pop up.
1) Google releases the source code for the operating system. Once its released developers have to comb through the whole source dump to understand whats going on and what has to be done before doing anything. And its not just one developer who has to do this, but the entire team thats working on it. It takes time. (They have a life too so give them a break)
2) Then the most important and the most dificult part is getting the drivers incorporated properly and making sure they are functioning. It might sound easy but its not. Most of the time making something work might break something else (same goes for fixing bugs).
3) Not everything happens in one go. Just like the developers here on xda have alpha and beta releases, so do techs at any company (i.e. AUSU). The builds have to be tested and tested and retested before gettng approval.
4) No company is obliged to give any software updates. And if they are then they can release the update when they feel like it. Even if you abandon or sell this device and buy another android device, it will most likely also be in this same situation.
5) NOT EVERY OWNER OF ASUS TRANSFORMER TF101 IS ON XDA or CARES ABOUT ROOT. There are a mojority of owners that have little to no knowledge regarding rooting, roms, upgrades, or even xda. And most of them dont really care as long as the device is functioning properly. Thus releasing a premature update to the masses will be wrong and very bad for marketing.
6) Remember that a new android os is released almost every 6-7 months. So the whole process has to start all over again. And not to mention that most devices that have gingerbread will be getting their ICS update by the end of 1st quarter or during the 2nd quarter (mostly the information given by the companies are very unreliable and could take longer or the devices might get abandoned). And by the time those devices get ICS updated, there will be another android version ready to be released.
7) IT WILL BE RELEASED WHEN ITS READY. So dont fill the general forum section with threads regarding the release of ICS. The whole first page is filled with it already. (I am sorry that i added this to the list too but seriously people need to calm down a little).
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shut up...
Opps i posted on another thread before I read this one....me bad...just not very good at following commands Yes it wil be here when it gets here
you could always ignore the damned threads. and thanks a bunch for Contributing another thread about ics for the tf101. do note sarcasm is included in this post. and should be read with a tone of extreme annoyance
Sent from my XT910 using xda premium
shahbaz5588 said:
There is a lot of work put into making a working device. The developers on xda itself take a long time before they have anything fully functional. Not to mention trying to troubleshoot the bugs that pop up.
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You've missed one small but crucial thing... Asus' devs already released ICS over a month ago, for the Prime. If you seriously believe there's a single significant difference between the two builds beyond drivers, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
And guess what? Asus doesn't make the drivers... the suppliers do. Those drivers have also been available for almost a month in public for other closely related devices like the Xoom, and will have been available to Asus long before that. You know, back when Asus was working on the TF101 and TF201 updates, simultaneously. (You don't seriously believe they have two separate teams working on near-identical builds in isolation, do you? If so, time to start clearing shelf space for the second bridge I'm selling you... they'll look so CUTE side by side on your mantelpiece.)
Not to mention, Asus' own statements don't add up. It's not just that we've been promised the update in December, January, February, and now March, either. I'm talking basic inconsistencies.
First it was "We're all done, we're just waiting for Google."
Then it was "Actually, we're waiting for our engineers. It's Chinese New Year's fault."
The only consistency is that Asus won't blame themselves. Truth be told, the update is almost certainly complete, to the same level as the Prime build, and was available inside Asus at the same time. It will have finished in-house testing--something Asus doesn't seem to do much of, given basic problems that have slipped by unnoticed in previous public releases-- at exactly the same time as the Prime build did.
Most likely the only reasons we're still waiting a month later are twofold. A little exclusivity for Asus' much-maligned, troubled newer and more expensive hardware, and the fact they then realized they had some fundamental problems in that joint ICS build that were bricking Primes, and would also be bricking TF101s that were still under warranty, and have sold in far greater numbers.
When will we TF101 users get ICS? My guess is, ~2 weeks after TF201 users get an ICS build that doesn't result in a flurry of warranty service. Most likely in mid-late March, as I've said for weeks now...
Sorry, but that's bull**** and excuses.
Large companies like Asus have access to the ICS long before it's made public, they are usually involved in the development process itself along with Google. Many devices like the Transformer (but more likely the Xoom in this case) are used DURING ICS development.
The Tegra2 platform drivers are developed by the hardware manufacturers in conjunction with Google too (again prior to release). In the case of Tegra2 devices, they don't differ too much in design, almost always using the reference design with a few hardware tweaks that have little or no impact on the drivers or OS.
Even the dock has very little low-level OS changes, Android has supported add-on keyboards and touchpads for some time already (HC 3.1 introduced the new mouse pointer).
Most of the dev work to support Asus apps, has already been done for the Prime.
The bottom line, is if Acer and others can already get their ICS out already, so could Asus. However I'm pretty certain it's being held back for commercial reasons, and almost all developers have been diverted to Prime and TF700T development.
Worst of all, is the total silence (aside from woolly non-commital wording), leaving their customers totally in the dark on this. This is the worst aspect of it.
We have had info from various Asus sources saying TF101 would get ICS the same day as Prime, a few weeks after, in Feb, now Feb/March.
CrazyPeter said:
Sorry, but that's bull**** and excuses.
Large companies like Asus have access to the ICS long before it's made public, they are usually involved in the development process itself along with Google. Many devices like the Transformer (but more likely the Xoom in this case) are used DURING ICS development.
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Completely agree. All people are doing by saying "just wait, it will be ready when it's ready" is trying to censor mass user anger at ASUS for not being able to produce an operating system that they've had available to them since NOVEMBER (possibly sooner).
Anyone remember the Android Update Alliance? Updates in a reasonable time frame? How does several months after the fact sound? Is that reasonable to you?
The ONLY reason that this is taking so long is so that people will go out and get the Transformer Prime, and ASUS will keep dragging their heels until we, their customers, get pissed off enough at them and start DEMANDING that they release the update, or even a 'leaked' build, like Samsung does.
We SHOULD be getting pissed, we SHOULD be battering their facebook page demanding an update, we SHOULD have tons of threads in the forums demanding ICS from ASUS, so maybe they will realize that and say 'oh ****, maybe we should actually, you know, DO something for our customers'.
First, you've got to get mad.
Sure, demand them and force them to rush the update, now that will work!
With all respect to your opinions, I'd rather wait more and have a good stable, and fully baked 4.0.
Don't get me wrong, I bought the Tf101 with 4.0 in mind, so I'm also craving for it. I used, as my daily rom, 4.0 on my Nexus S when not even wifi was working.
Asus knows what they are doing IMO, and rushing them is gonn make no difference. Just let them do their thing. They will do it, they are the ones driving the company, not us. Its their decisions and preferences.
I'd like to say just one thing: the Acer A500 (the real, direct competitor for our TF101) will get official ICS in April. Get your conclusions.
I think that everyone who screams "omg you promised me jenuary and now you are delaying I want it now!!1!1!revenge&selltheTF101&youdontworkwell&Y U DELAY" sounds like a teen screaming when her parents dont buy to her the dress she wants.
CrazyPeter said:
Sorry, but that's bull**** and excuses.
Large companies like Asus have access to the ICS long before it's made public, they are usually involved in the development process itself along with Google. Many devices like the Transformer (but more likely the Xoom in this case) are used DURING ICS development.
The Tegra2 platform drivers are developed by the hardware manufacturers in conjunction with Google too (again prior to release). In the case of Tegra2 devices, they don't differ too much in design, almost always using the reference design with a few hardware tweaks that have little or no impact on the drivers or OS.
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that just shows me how less you know about the "large companies"...
google releases any new android version to the flagship device which will first showcase the new OS.... for example, when google nexus (the first one) was released it was first given to htc to bring out 2.1... and the next google flagship phones made by samsung were first given access to both gingerbread and ICS... google works with the developers of samsung during this time to help bring out the product... no other "large company" has access until the product is released... and the source of the android os is not released until significant flagship devices are sold...
As for the nvidia tegra 2 drivers... they werent updated to work on ICS until last month (google, nvidia, and motorola were working on it together http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1371486)... and there has been no news regarding its release since motorola xoom got the ICS update... and for your kind information motorola xoom only got ICS update in USA... the rest of the world has to wait till Q2 of 2012 (https://forums.motorola.com/pages/00add97d6c)
Yes the tegra 2 devices can be used with a few hardware tweaks from xoom... but "large companies" cant do tweaks and use hacks... they cant use drivers made for a certain device on its own product... the processors could be the same but the boards are different... so the drivers have to be modified to function properly with them...
it sounds all bull**** and excuses bcuz you have no clue
whatever asus has had ics since november regardless and promised and promised and anyone who thinks we are waiting on it for anything other than for asus to sell primes is only kidding themselves its all monetary period!
they are selling primes with ics and blowing off millions of longtime users that arent buying the new shiny device but its stupid because those users next purchase hangs in the balance, i know service and support and this whole ordeal will affect my next purchase, i love asus so i will purchase future products but they are pushin my buttons and the scales could one day be tipped. im hoping they dnt get too stupid cuz i do love their products.
Out of curiosity, how many examples are there of companies giving a general date, and consistently providing on said date?
trickfarrelly said:
Completely agree. All people are doing by saying "just wait, it will be ready when it's ready" is trying to censor mass user anger at ASUS for not being able to produce an operating system that they've had available to them since NOVEMBER (possibly sooner).
Anyone remember the Android Update Alliance? Updates in a reasonable time frame? How does several months after the fact sound? Is that reasonable to you?
The ONLY reason that this is taking so long is so that people will go out and get the Transformer Prime, and ASUS will keep dragging their heels until we, their customers, get pissed off enough at them and start DEMANDING that they release the update, or even a 'leaked' build, like Samsung does.
We SHOULD be getting pissed, we SHOULD be battering their facebook page demanding an update, we SHOULD have tons of threads in the forums demanding ICS from ASUS, so maybe they will realize that and say 'oh ****, maybe we should actually, you know, DO something for our customers'.
First, you've got to get mad.
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I agree. We should be demanding the source on twitter, Facebook, email everything it takes to get the source. I could care less about the rom I want the source!
So I chanced upon this news on Twitter: http://m.gsmarena.com/motorola_shut...php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
I can understand that they want to concentrate on higher end devices, but why totally pulling out of Asia? They still have fans in Asia and they did not even try selling the Razr HD or something before coming to the decision. What was Google thinking there?
Also, Motorola SEA has said that they would continue giving customers support and warranty. However, after the news of Motorola's staff getting laid-off, people had been complaining that their questions were left ignored for days and they've yet to receive any replies to date.
(And to think I've still got a few months on my warranty)
It seems like a great excuse by Motorola not to upgrade the international atrix to ICS. Oh well, seems like I'll never be able to get my hands on the Razr HD
Opinions?
Sent from that Atrix.
I'll wait for reliable or official sources to confirm, but this would be quite drastic. BGR India, hmmm. I can't imagine they would pull out of China, where their phones are literally sold at every store in every city. While they have never been crazy popular, they seem to have always done well in sales volume. They just opened an official Motorola store at one of the malls in Guangzhou, so I wish I knew some Mandarin I could question the news coming out. Hopefully they are simply cutting down on the number of models they sell, and going to concentrate just on a few core phones. I would hate to see Motorola exit the market, especially now with Google's influence.
I suppose my next phone was like going to be from Xiaomi or Huawei, but if I could find a new Motorola in the next few months that can make me as happy as the Atrix, I would stick with them for their great hardware.
The Motorola Southeast-asian Facebook page has gone ridiculously silent, not even replying anyone in the last few weeks (other than updating their website and info). Customer support also dead.
Sent from that Atrix.
Hey,
I don't know anything about Asia as a whole, but in Israel at least, Motorola Mobility closed all their facilities and laid off all their workers. I think that it is something that came directly from google, as a way to cut their losses or something like that...
:cyclops:
tatperson said:
The Motorola Southeast-asian Facebook page has gone ridiculously silent, not even replying anyone in the last few weeks (other than updating their website and info). Customer support also dead.
Sent from that Atrix.
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They are always silent and not responding to queries. Their support is as good as dead. I am glad my warranty is about one month left.
Motorola stock ROM sucks and they just provide one pathetic and buggy update from Froyo to GB. Motorola has never been popular in SG, their reputation is really bad. Almost everyone is using iPhone or Samsung Galaxy phone. IMO, Google is trying to cut their losses. They are only interested with Motorola's patents. Haha..
I am sure it is to cut losses. But methinks Google is gonna try and bring USA back into the mix sooner or later. Pure speculation on my part, but Google does need to cut as many losses as possible before they start investing more here. Investing in the USA is very costly and a big uphill battle right now when you're competing against pennies on the dollar. No need to look farther than the nexus q. It was shunned before it was even released because of price and features. If america wants jobs, they need to buy home brew and see that Google is one big beta company and the features will come if you're patient. Not much of that in the USA either. Short term profits are more important than long term stability. See where that is getting us in many other markets?
need more high def music...
Update:
Although we are consolidating about a third of our facilities globally, and slimming our operation in India as you reported, we continue to have a significant presence in several key markets in Asia-Pacific in addition to Korea and Australia. This includes, among others, mainland China, which remains one of our main R&D hubs (and where I am based). We should be able to share more information once we’re further through the reorganization process, but Asia-Pacific is an important part of Motorola Mobility’s future.
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