Database Users

Is Motorola getting ready to ditch Android?

http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-features/54903-is-motorola-getting-ready-to-ditch-android
The article makes several key points:
"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google and even Google's numbers look less than reliable. There are 37 lawsuits on this platform since the beginning of 2010 many filed against companies like Motorola and complaints from the OEM on Google's responsiveness to their concerns are both common and strident," he explained.

"They are not happy and a review of all of this is what pushed HP to buy Palm and avoid Android all together
You have to consider why a company like Motorola would chose to support, or not support an OS - things may not be all that rosy for Google Experience Devices, in fact it sounds like companies like Motorola may actually resent Googles interference, and what they percieve as an inequitable distribution of profit (into Googles Pocket) on these devices.

Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. It takes years, then you have to get the hardware vendors to make systems for it, and the software guys to make software for it. HP already have an OS in WebOS; ditto RIM. Are they swimming in dev love right now?
>"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google"
Moto was near death after the Razr petered out, and was resuscitated back to life with the Droid series. Last I looked, its financials look a lot better than it was before its Android push. Ditto for HTC, which is now riding on a wave of cash. You can check on others.
Every for-profit company in the world is doing things to make...a profit. If it's not profitable, nobody would do it. Now, look at the rate of Android adoption for smartphones. Think all of those vendors are looking to lose money?
The trouble with holding Internet pundits as gospel is that they, like any for-profit entity, don't necessarily care about the facts as they do about sensationalizing them, even to the extent of spouting fibs. The more attention a blog post gets, the more hits, and the more ad revenue. Sad as it is to say, but truth and facts can be boring, and embellishment sells.

I think its all in the informations source. Wasn't there an article a month or two back that essentially discussed exactly how profitable Android is? Essentially calling it Google's most profitable venture ever for both themselves and their partners.
I think the proof is in handset shipments and growth. What is HTC's shipment growth over the past 2 years? Something in the neighborhood of 200%? and their projection is for a 300% increase over that this year? Those handset sales are driven primarily by Android. If they aren't making a profit on those handsets then they would have been unprofitable no matter what, because their prices wouldn't have changed. Whether it be Windows Mobile,Android or Brand Z their new handset is still going to be in the neighborhood of 599-650, so its their responsibility to make sure that price point is profitable for them. I don't see them being able to complain about slow growth since the sales growth and acceptance for the Android platform is pretty much meteoric.
I hardly see Motorola complaining about Android considering it and Verizon essentially saved them from becoming the next Nokia, a brand no one in America cares about. Are they hedging their bets? Possibly. Abandoning Android right now or in the foreseeable future though? I would say absolutely not.
Without Android, its pretty easy to say that Motorola and HTC would be in far worse financial shape than increasing their shipments and profits every quarter than they currently are. (Samsung not so much, they could have continued to be the OEM supplier for screens to HTC/Other brands who want to make phones) But in fact it was so profitable it encouraged Samsung to jump into the market themselves instead of just supplying parts. It gave those companies an instant way to compete with iOS.
Motorola announced today it sold 8.3 million handsets in the second quarter, earning the Mobile Devices division $1.7 billion in sales, and returning the unit to profitability after several quarters of losses. Over 2.7 million smartphones were part of Motorola’s overall handset sales, showing the vast growth in this segment, as the company reported zero smartphone sales in the same quarter in 2009. Although Motorola quarterly results don’t specifically name the biggest catalyst for such a change, it can be summarized in one word: Android.
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Thats from July of 2010. So from losses to profit, I can hardly see how that "wouldn't be turning out profitable" for them.

e.mote said:
Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. It takes years, then you have to get the hardware vendors to make systems for it, and the software guys to make software for it. HP already have an OS in WebOS; ditto RIM. Are they swimming in dev love right now?
>"Android isn't turning out to be profitable for any company other than Google"
Moto was near death after the Razr petered out, and was resuscitated back to life with the Droid series. Last I looked, its financials look a lot better than it was before its Android push. Ditto for HTC, which is now riding on a wave of cash. You can check on others.
Every for-profit company in the world is doing things to make...a profit. If it's not profitable, nobody would do it. Now, look at the rate of Android adoption for smartphones. Think all of those vendors are looking to lose money?
The trouble with holding Internet pundits as gospel is that they, like any for-profit entity, don't necessarily care about the facts as they do about sensationalizing them, even to the extent of spouting fibs. The more attention a blog post gets, the more hits, and the more ad revenue. Sad as it is to say, but truth and facts can be boring, and embellishment sells.
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You both make good points.
Thats when these boards work best. When people actually think through all the facets of a topic and don't just devolve into an Apple good/Android Bad rant.
However, in response to the comment: "Developing an operating system isn't something a company "just decides" to do. "
Certainly it is,
ANDROID is an operating system developed by a company called Google, that just "decided" to create an OS to compete with Apple.
That in turn was developed from an OS called Linux developed by Torvalds as an open source alternative to Windows.
Or take Windows Phone 7 - A company called Microsoft "Just decided to develop" and OS from the ground up to compete with Apple.
Problem isn't developing an OS, problem is marketing it and developing Apps.
Edit: I agree with you that that this is virtually impossible for Motorola. But I would have thought it impossible for HP too and yet, they had the creative insight to buy palm, and now they are doing it. Probably will crash and burn, but bottom line is: They DID abandon android.

Digital Man said:
ANDROID is an operating system developed by a company called Google, that just "decided" to create an OS to compete with Apple.
Or take Windows Phone 7 - A company called Microsoft "Just decided to develop" and OS from the ground up to compete with Apple.
Problem isn't developing an OS, problem is marketing it and developing Apps.
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I hope you understand that there difference between software companies deciding to make software and hardware companies deciding to make software.
Microsoft and Google already had experience and infrastructure in place to create new software. Motorola will be starting with...nothing. That is why Palm was purchased by HP, they needed a leg up on software experience to make new software development practical.

_RTFM_ said:
I hope you understand that there difference between software companies deciding to make software and hardware companies deciding to make software.
Microsoft and Google already had experience and infrastructure in place to create new software. Motorola will be starting with...nothing. That is why Palm was purchased by HP, they needed a leg up on software experience to make new software development practical.
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Knew that one was coming. Thats why companies hire employess. Thats why companies buy other companies.
Thats why companies like HP which are HARDWARE companies buy companies like Palm which are SOFTWARE companies. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Programmers are people, they can walk from software companies over to the building where the hardware company is located and start working there, on a shiny new OS as soon as they are hired or aquired.
Edit: Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.

Digital Man said:
Knew that one was coming. Thats why companies hire employess. Thats why companies buy other companies.
Thats why companies like HP which are HARDWARE companies buy companies like Palm which are SOFTWARE companies. Whatever it takes to get the job done.
Programmers are people, they can walk from software companies over to the building where the hardware company is located and start working there, on a shiny new OS as soon as they are hired or aquired.
Edit: Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
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...ok, but in order for them to walk over there they need to be PAID, and an entire new wing of R&D needs to be built to support them. This is a massive investment that is VERY high risk that takes a long time.
Oh you're right, I had no clue Google started as a search engine. That means they are and have always been a software company. Just because "engine" is in the phrase doesn't mean it isn't software

_RTFM_ said:
...ok, but in order for them to walk over there they need to be PAID, and an entire new wing of R&D needs to be built to support them. This is a massive investment that is VERY high risk that takes a long time.
Oh you're right, I had no clue Google started as a search engine. That means they are and have always been a software company. Just because "engine" is in the phrase doesn't mean it isn't software
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Sarcasm aside, no, I'm still not sure a search engine is the same as a hardware operating system....
Her is a good article supporting the alternative point of view however:
Moto ditching Android: Silly Rumor
http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-developing-own-os-silly-rumor-20110325/
Note this line: Motorola is working on their own OS? What? Back that up. Several blogs are putting forth the rumor that Motorola’s friendship with Google is waning and that the cellphone manufacturer has been quietly hiring Apple and Adobe engineers with the aim of developing their own platform OS to compete with Android.
Note the part about quietly hiring from Apple and Adobe.
I honestly don't have a strong opinion one way or the other here. I am primarily playing Devils Advocate by throwing the orignal topic out here for discussion, as it is something that people have been talking about quite a bit on Motorola hardware boards.
I was curious to see other peoples points of view on the story-rumor.

Here is an interesting article about why Google might not care if Android ever makes money.
Android May Be the Greatest Legal Destruction of Wealth in History [Android]
TOP STORIES IN TECHNOLOGY | MARCH 25, 2011
http://gizmodo.com/#!5785983/android-may-be-the-greatest-legal-destruction-of-wealth-in-history

tinpusher said:
Here is an interesting article about why Google might not care if Android ever makes money.
Android May Be the Greatest Legal Destruction of Wealth in History [Android]
TOP STORIES IN TECHNOLOGY | MARCH 25, 2011
http://gizmodo.com/#!5785983/android-may-be-the-greatest-legal-destruction-of-wealth-in-history
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Thanks for posting this.
I have to laugh. I started this thread, and in effect was accused of being a conspiracy theorist wearing a tin-foil hat. So it makes me feel better knowing that the guys over at Gizmodo have some pretty shiny head-gear as well.

If Motorola leaves the Android community they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I really have a hard time believing Moto would be that stupid.
Where were they before Android? On the brink of death. Leaving now is suicide. Companies really need to stop thinking they are Apple. Apple is the exception to that proves rule.
If they took all the money they put into this rumored OS and sunk it into a better blur (or option to disable blur), better hardware, and FAST updates... they would rule the market.

th0r615 said:
If Motorola leaves the Android community they would be shooting themselves in the foot. I really have a hard time believing Moto would be that stupid.
Where were they before Android? On the brink of death. Leaving now is suicide. Companies really need to stop thinking they are Apple. Apple is the exception to that proves rule.
If they took all the money they put into this rumored OS and sunk it into a better blur (or option to disable blur), better hardware, and FAST updates... they would rule the market.
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Oh hell, some companies like Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot on an almost daily basis. Remember the Kin phone? Here is a quote from an article by Engadget:
"While it's hard to argue that Kin is an awful product, the saddest part of the story is that many of the people responsible for it knew it was -- they were largely victims of political circumstance, forced to release a phone that was practically raw in the middle."
In the end they sold something like 500 of the things.
Remember the Dell streak releasing crippled with Android 1.6?
And then there was windows Vista....
Companies often do things that seem to make no rational business sense.

It would be crazy for them to abandon the platform that single handedly prevented them from going into bankruptcy... Motorola was doing horrible before they teamed up with Verizon and released the Droid OG. Which was an insanely popular device. Motorola should be thanking Verizon and Google for still having jobs right now...

They would be crazy to stop embracing android. Not only is it generating business like crazy (everyone has seen or heard of the enormous numbers of android products being sold, numbers that are unseating the existing leaders of the mobile os market), all indications are that android is still growing. Why abandon success?
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

Actually it's as simple as this.. Would you abandon an OS that has the second largest apps for mobile? It would be dumb for any company to do such a thing.. I mean think about it.. What other choices do you have?? WM7, RIM, Palm etc?? It would take years for them to catch up, apps wise.. Right now, what makes these phone manufacturer tick, is the apps behind it.. Hence, that's the reason why I chose Android when I left iphone.. The apps.. So I don't think Motorola would abandon Android and jump ship anytime soon.. Or at all, for that matter..

Yeah I agree. I don't see this happening anytime soon, if at all. Especially looking within a few years down the road.

Motorola should just concentrate on making better quality hardware and leave th software to people who know what they are doing. Motorola use to mean quality, now it's just another phone maker in a sea of the same devices running the same software with nothing really revolutionary to offer buyers. If moto could make an android device with the quality of their razor they would destroy the competition.

The rumor that Moto is hiring software egr's has a glimmer of truth (and subsequently embellished for tabloid consumption). Moto is learning that there is a downside to the Android gravy train, which every co and its sister is jumping onto, and that is lack of differentiation.
Co's are trying different things. Asus is doing the integrated keyboard with the Transformer. HTC has the active digitizer where you can use a stylus. Archos is leaning on its PMP roots with strong multimedia support. But for the majority, differentiation will be minimal (mostly a custom GUI). The main determinant will be price. In other words, Android tabs will be commodity status very soon. This is good for the consumers, but not for the vendors.
This isn't the smartphone market any more, where supply is constrained by the carriers playing as gatekeepers. Price competition will be intense, and slapping on a custom GUI (as has been the practice for smartphones) will no longer be enough. Premium brands in smartphones do not automatically translate to the tablet market.
It'll be a free-for-all. And the guys that win will be those with the best value-add, brand strength, and distribution muscle. For the first, you need software peeps. Which is why Moto is stocking up.

Digital Man said:
Might I also point out that Google started as a search engine, not a software company either.
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This sentence does not make any sense

hi_its_ryan said:
This sentence does not make any sense
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Just saying that something doesn't make sense isn't very helpful. Try explaining WHY it doesn't make sense.
That would add something to the discussion.

google buys motorola

it seems that google buys moto... does this mean android will be moto only now? http://mediacenter.motorola.com/Press-Releases/Google-to-Acquire-Motorola-Mobility-3797.aspx

now we will get good quality stable android phone...!

It got me glad and worried at the same time
Im really glad coz motorola mobility has a mountain of patents that Google could use against Patent trolls like Apple and others.
In fact the huge amount of patents that Motorola owns assures that
Appple et all are cross licensing at least some of the said patents.
I almost wish that Google bought up Nokia also but MS beat them
with their trojan horse.
But it also got me worried that since Google now has its own handset company,
its going to run it as a business with the intention to recover its expenses and make a profit, which is natural but it also means it will be competing with its own licensees like HTC, Samsung, LG etc.
What does this mean in the future for its Android licensees who are now its
rivals in the Android Market?
It almost seems unprofessional for Google to be both License Holder and now competitor yet i cant blame Google for buying up Motorola after the way
Apple is throwing its weight around with Samsung, HTC etc
Anyway Nokia does own Symbian and competed with the same licensees like Sony Ericksonn, Samsung etc in the past.
So I guess Google can do its best to reassure its Android licensees that
its still business as usual.

Google's primary objective seemed to be keeping the patents out of the hands of Microsoft/Apple/trolls. They certainly didn't need more to worry about.
As for their phones... I think (and hope!) that Google plans on treating them the same way they treat Chrome: Use Motorola to make the other players step up their game. Chrome was the first to market with a large variety of security technology, and since then both IE and Safari have started adopting similar technology... the Android ecosystem is currently a security nightmare!
Lets hope, though, that this is nothing like Nokia & Symbian... Nokia's purchase of Symbian was a total failure, everyone around it immediately began abandoning it, and then even NOKIA did! Nokia has also abandoned Meego, only throwing out the N9 to the non-major markets, with no intention of selling it in the larger markets. Symbian is more likely an example of Android crushing them, and Meego of Microsoft paying them a butt load of money (plus management FROM Microsoft!), so hopefully both examples will look totally different.

Yep, this is all about patents.
It won't greatly affect its relationship with giving out Android to other manufacturers. However, we'll hopefully see moto phones be all Nexus like and on every carrier with various styles and configurations.

I've owned 5 or so Motorola phones over the past decade and you couldn't pay me enough to ever use another.
If for some reason Motorola did become the only Android phone or even the flagship, I'd swap to WM7 or iOS.

I read a few articles about this and a few of them worrying about if android wouldn't be open platform anymore. But google's bread and butter is ad market for search. And search market is shifting to mobile from desktop computer. More android device more money for them. Simply they CAN NOT give up android as an open platform. Thats my 2 cents.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App

Future AOSP builds include motoblur... boo
XD

This was just sent to me.
"Dear MOTODEV member,
Today, Google and Motorola Mobility have announced their intention to enter an agreement under which Google will acquire Motorola Mobility. This is a positive step in Motorola Mobility's evolution and exciting news for the Android ecosystem.
As you know, Motorola Mobility has played a leading role in the advancement of the Android platform globally. With Google, we plan to continue to build upon our 80-year history of technology innovation and take Motorola Mobility's cutting-edge products and solutions to the next level.
We do not expect this announced transaction to have any immediate impact on MOTODEV programs or activities. As the transaction moves forward we will keep you informed as details become available.
As always, technology innovation remains the lifeblood of Motorola Mobility and the success of our developer community remains top priority for MOTODEV.
Sincerely, The MOTODEV team"
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App

in other words, really nothing is different. Motorola still makes Motorola phones and Google still makes android and the two will never merge, aosp will never be blur, and Motorola will not be the only android phone manufacturer. all this will ever mean is that Google might sometimes get updates to moto a little quicker, and get access to their hardware patents, etc... nothing really that will affect the consumers.
Sent from my MIUI SCH-i500

Google + Motorola ??

I know I may have some of my facts wrong here, just correct me if I'm wrong.
Since Google bought out Motorola Mobility a while back, wouldn't it make more sense for them to be using Motorola for the "Nexus" phones? Why would they want to team up with Samsung to make something they could do themselves?

Companies "bid" for the opportunity to make the nexus device. Google is afterall a corporate entity. Why would they want to screw themselves out of more money if it was there for the taking?
I do however think it will be better for Moto devices in the long run for updates..

TreyChristopher said:
I know I may have some of my facts wrong here, just correct me if I'm wrong.
Since Google bought out Motorola Mobility a while back, wouldn't it make more sense for them to be using Motorola for the "Nexus" phones? Why would they want to team up with Samsung to make something they could do themselves?
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I've been wondering the same thing. Maybe Samsung's patented the curved display and Google's got a fetish for that?
Regardless, I'm itching to see a Moto nexus phone. Samsung left a bad taste in my mouth with the Captivate, HTC always seems to have some sort of screen/multitouch issue, SE seems like a specialty phone kind of manufacturer, LG? Eh, I probably wouldn't mind the Thrill/3D, but they have yet to prove themselves.
Motorola? I realize there was this tiff about the bootloader, but I'd rather have good, consistent build quality than a lot of other things.

The deal has not yet gone through. Why don't people do any sort of research at all before asking questions? Shareholders are voting on November 17 if the acquisition will go through or not. Secondly, Google has stated many, many times that they will not touch MotoMobility at all. They only want the patents and will not make any changes to MotoMobility's business at all. Period. Also, Samsung makes high quality devices. There's a reason they've been chosen for 2 of the 3 Nexus devices and Moto has been chosen for none. Moto has sold 4.4 million total smartphones in each the last 2 quarters. Samsung sold 30 million devices in the last quarter alone including 10 million SGS2s without even debuting in the US, one of the largest smartphone markets in the world.

From my understanding, Google has not yet purchased Motorola Mobility. The Boards of Directors of both Motorola and Google have approved of the deal but there is a long procedure to be completed in order for this deal to actually go through.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14531859

xyrovice said:
I've been wondering the same thing. Maybe Samsung's patented the curved display and Google's got a fetish for that?
Regardless, I'm itching to see a Moto nexus phone. Samsung left a bad taste in my mouth with the Captivate, HTC always seems to have some sort of screen/multitouch issue, SE seems like a specialty phone kind of manufacturer, LG? Eh, I probably wouldn't mind the Thrill/3D, but they have yet to prove themselves.
Motorola? I realize there was this tiff about the bootloader, but I'd rather have good, consistent build quality than a lot of other things.
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I don't really understand people, honestly. Motorola has always put out good quality, 100% working phones. The bootloader is unlockable if you want to mess with your phone, but something like a screen issue isn't fixable unless you get a new phone.
edgeicator said:
The deal has not yet gone through. Why don't people do any sort of research at all before asking questions? Shareholders are voting on November 17 if the acquisition will go through or not. Secondly, Google has stated many, many times that they will not touch MotoMobility at all. They only want the patents and will not make any changes to MotoMobility's business at all. Period. Also, Samsung makes high quality devices. There's a reason they've been chosen for 2 of the 3 Nexus devices and Moto has been chosen for none. Moto has sold 4.4 million total smartphones in each the last 2 quarters. Samsung sold 30 million devices in the last quarter alone including 10 million SGS2s without even debuting in the US, one of the largest smartphone markets in the world.
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If Google isn't going to touch MotoMobility, then who is running the company? -.-

TreyChristopher said:
I don't really understand people, honestly. Motorola has always put out good quality, 100% working phones. The bootloader is unlockable if you want to mess with your phone, but something like a screen issue isn't fixable unless you get a new phone.
If Google isn't going to touch MotoMobility, then who is running the company? -.-
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The same people who are running it today. No one is being fired. It was a purely patent acquisition. MotoMobility will remain as it is today. As for the bootloader, it is not unlockable unless something huge leaks. How many phones have had their bootloader unlocked since the OG Droid? 2. The Atrix and the Photon 4g, which is basically an atrix for Sprint. That's it.

1. Google doesn't officially own Motorola Mobility Yet.
2. For those of you who think that google strictly bought Motorola for patents and are not going to take advantage of Owning the Cellular division and developing with motorola before other companies is on a cloud. Of course google isn't going to "admit" that they would do that cause that would cause a semi sorta monopoly so they "Say" they aren't going to do anything for plausible deniability. I mean really come on think about it...They Own a major manufacturer of cellphones and Just want Pantents....give me a break.

malickie said:
1. Google doesn't officially own Motorola Mobility Yet.
2. For those of you who think that google strictly bought Motorola for patents and are not going to take advantage of Owning the Cellular division and developing with motorola before other companies is on a cloud. Of course google isn't going to "admit" that they would do that cause that would cause a semi sorta monopoly so they "Say" they aren't going to do anything for plausible deniability. I mean really come on think about it...They Own a major manufacturer of cellphones and Just want Pantents....give me a break.
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You're absolutely delusional. Motorola is doing so much worse than the other Android manufacturers. They stand to lose a lot if they show any favoritism to Motorola. Samsung sold 30 million smartphones last quarter. HTC Sold 13 million. Motorola sold 4.4 million. Motorola is not a major seller of smartphones. Q2 rankings were apple, samsung, nokia, rim, htc, lg, motorola, huawei, zte, other. You have no idea how business works. Plausible deniability doesn't work here. It'll be as plain as day light if Google ever favors Moto.

edgeicator said:
You're absolutely delusional. Motorola is doing so much worse than the other Android manufacturers. They stand to lose a lot if they show any favoritism to Motorola. Samsung sold 30 million smartphones last quarter. HTC Sold 13 million. Motorola sold 4.4 million. Motorola is not a major seller of smartphones. Q2 rankings were apple, samsung, nokia, rim, htc, lg, motorola, huawei, zte, other. You have no idea how business works. Plausible deniability doesn't work here. It'll be as plain as day light if Google ever favors Moto.
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Dude seriously have you ever worked in a business and have any idea what goes on behind 99% of business's doors and the shady business that goes on? I mean seriously who is delusional thinking that motorola won't take advantage of being owned by google and vice versa. There would be a Major reason for Motorola to take advantage of that considering how bad they are doing in the market and of course it will be as quite as a mouse. Both sides would deny it until blue in the face but still won't stop either from taking advantage of each other. I mean hell just look at RIM or Apple or Android for that matter all of which are in some sort of lawsuit or another for infringement on this or that patent. Would be very easy to mask any favoritism at the moment with all the BS Lawsuits going on right now.

malickie said:
Dude seriously have you ever worked in a business and have any idea what goes on behind 99% of business's doors and the shady business that goes on? I mean seriously who is delusional thinking that motorola won't take advantage of being owned by google and vice versa. There would be a Major reason for Motorola to take advantage of that considering how bad they are doing in the market and of course it will be as quite as a mouse. Both sides would deny it until blue in the face but still won't stop either from taking advantage of each other. I mean hell just look at RIM or Apple or Android for that matter all of which are in some sort of lawsuit or another for infringement on this or that patent. Would be very easy to mask any favoritism at the moment with all the BS Lawsuits going on right now.
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Yea, you definitely have no idea what you're talking about. Favoritism has nothing to do with lawsuits. They wouldn't be in trouble if they collaborated together. Fact of the matter is, HTC and Samsung already are on edge. They are being pressured from outside and within to switch away from Android as it is. Manufacturers that are cooperating with a software vendor do NOT want to compete with that same vendor on a hardware level. As you can see Android hardware manufacturers are not happy and I’m sure will be on the lookout for another mobile OS at the drop of a pin. Google would shoot themselves in the foot if they showed any signs of favoritism to Motorola. Face the facts. Google has little to gain from Motorola doing better at the expense of pissing off the far bigger Manufacturers of Android handsets. The only way Motorola can benefit from this merger is if Google favors Motorola other other manufacturers in regards to early source code access and preferential Nexus selection. Both of these would be painfully obvious to any other manufacturer.
Any hardware company (Motorola, Samsung, etc.) makes money by selling hardware, so they do not want to update software, they want to update hardware and use the new software as a selling point. Their ideologies already clash. Google wants to advance the Android ecosystem. Motorola simply wants a bigger share of that market.
The thing is, Google kind of had its hand forced in this. It's a fact that gets overlooked. Motorola basically started saying they were going to start suing the other manufacturers of Android. I don't know about you, but in my opinion that's a pretty ****ing bad thing for the ecosystem. This wasn't something Google thought of out of the blue. It's something that was honestly hoisted upon them. If they didn't stop Motorola, they would have started suing, other manufacturers would have started adopting WP7. Google doesn't want to lose its controlling grip over Android, and for good reason -- it's a money maker for them right now. By buying Motorola not only does it stop the potential for lawsuits against the other manufacturers, but it also stops the potential for Motorola to start producing WP7 phones as well. The patents were also a very sweet reason, but it wasn't the only reason.
Motorola was also threatening to create it's own private fork of android and it's own market a few months ago. Basically Motorola was looking to be bought. Apparently Microsoft was also interested.

edgeicator said:
Yea, you definitely have no idea what you're talking about. Favoritism has nothing to do with lawsuits. They wouldn't be in trouble if they collaborated together. Fact of the matter is, HTC and Samsung already are on edge. They are being pressured from outside and within to switch away from Android as it is. Manufacturers that are cooperating with a software vendor do NOT want to compete with that same vendor on a hardware level. As you can see Android hardware manufacturers are not happy and I’m sure will be on the lookout for another mobile OS at the drop of a pin. Google would shoot themselves in the foot if they showed any signs of favoritism to Motorola. Face the facts. Google has little to gain from Motorola doing better at the expense of pissing off the far bigger Manufacturers of Android handsets. The only way Motorola can benefit from this merger is if Google favors Motorola other other manufacturers in regards to early source code access and preferential Nexus selection. Both of these would be painfully obvious to any other manufacturer.
Any hardware company (Motorola, Samsung, etc.) makes money by selling hardware, so they do not want to update software, they want to update hardware and use the new software as a selling point. Their ideologies already clash. Google wants to advance the Android ecosystem. Motorola simply wants a bigger share of that market.
The thing is, Google kind of had its hand forced in this. It's a fact that gets overlooked. Motorola basically started saying they were going to start suing the other manufacturers of Android. I don't know about you, but in my opinion that's a pretty ****ing bad thing for the ecosystem. This wasn't something Google thought of out of the blue. It's something that was honestly hoisted upon them. If they didn't stop Motorola, they would have started suing, other manufacturers would have started adopting WP7. Google doesn't want to lose its controlling grip over Android, and for good reason -- it's a money maker for them right now. By buying Motorola not only does it stop the potential for lawsuits against the other manufacturers, but it also stops the potential for Motorola to start producing WP7 phones as well. The patents were also a very sweet reason, but it wasn't the only reason.
Motorola was also threatening to create it's own private fork of android and it's own market a few months ago. Basically Motorola was looking to be bought. Apparently Microsoft was also interested.
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are you sitting on the board of directors of Google? no? do you have access to private information that pertains to Google's plans for Motorola? no? then i guess you have no clue what you're talking about and need to chill out. every single one of your posts is nothing but calling other people idiots and spouting information (without any hard evidence) about future events that people are just SPECULATING about. is it really that annoying to you for other people to have a conversation about possibilities?

Alcapone263 said:
are you sitting on the board of directors of Google? no? do you have access to private information that pertains to Google's plans for Motorola? no? then i guess you have no clue what you're talking about and need to chill out. every single one of your posts is nothing but calling other people idiots and spouting information (without any hard evidence) about future events that people are just SPECULATING about. is it really that annoying to you for other people to have a conversation about possibilities?
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It's called common sense and knowledge. Something 99% of this board apparently lacks. Google has stated MULTIPLE TIMES they won't favor Motorola over their other partners. Every single one of my posts has been backed up by hard numbers and articles. Name anything I have stated to be fact that hasn't been backed up with hard evidence. The person I am responding to insists that Motorola will somehow have backhanded deals with Google when it has been explicitly stated that there will be no benefit for Motorola over other manufacturers from this acquisition. Maybe if posters were somewhat intelligent, I wouldn't have to point out the multitudes of falsities, misinformation, and just straight up FUD they keep claiming.

edgeicator said:
It's called common sense and knowledge. Something 99% of this board apparently lacks. Google has stated MULTIPLE TIMES they won't favor Motorola over their other partners. Every single one of my posts has been backed up by hard numbers and articles. Name anything I have stated to be fact that hasn't been backed up with hard evidence. The person I am responding to insists that Motorola will somehow have backhanded deals with Google when it has been explicitly stated that there will be no benefit for Motorola over other manufacturers from this acquisition. Maybe if posters were somewhat intelligent, I wouldn't have to point out the multitudes of falsities, misinformation, and just straight up FUD they keep claiming.
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Sounds to me like you believe everything you read or what someone tells you. So if the President told you the only way to live was to jump off the Sears tower you would just blindly believe him and go jump off the Sears Tower even though common sense and logic would say wait if I do that I am dead. All I have been saying is Don't believe Everything someone tells you they will Do. Most corporations say One thing and do something completely different behind closed doors.

malickie said:
Sounds to me like you believe everything you read or what someone tells you. So if the President told you the only way to live was to jump off the Sears tower you would just blindly believe him and go jump off the Sears Tower even though common sense and logic would say wait if I do that I am dead. All I have been saying is Don't believe Everything someone tells you they will Do. Most corporations say One thing and do something completely different behind closed doors.
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Way to use a straw man argument. And as I explained earlier. There is a tiny upside to Motorola doing well to a huge downside if they were to get caught red-handed. The risk vs reward is tremendously imbalanced. You'd have to have 0 sense of business if you'd take that risk. The only reason Google did this was to take patents for defense and to defend their partners from Motorola potentially suing them with those same patents they just bought. If you can't see that, there's no helping you.

I could care less "who" makes it, but how about a Nexus phone WITH EXT_SD support already?...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium

Closing the thread. Please keep the forums civil and respectful. Avoid personal attacks, arguments, and such at all costs.
Thanks guys!

[Analysis] Motorola cutting R&D costs and why that matters?

What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.

Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.

CSharpHeaven said:
What it tells you when a company currently reshaping the market with their Android platform start cutting R&D costs, globally, from the company [Motorola Mobility] that they have recently acquired? Actually few things.
Source to the cut costing: http://www.slashgear.com/google-motorola-cuts-costing-us-340-but-theyre-only-the-start-04250360/
- Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
- Google would want to pass on major potential financial losses to the other entities
Which "other entities" are you referring to?
- Motorola Mobility is no longer a reliable manufacturer in which consumers would want to purchase hardware from. If targets are not met Moto stops providing support, they have already strongly demonstrated that. With the smaller budget Moto has, it puts them in more fragile position compared to the other manufacturers
You have no idea what Motorola Mobility's budget is, nor what the corporate strategy is as they and Google move forward.
- I predict Motorola Mobility "most likely" wouldn't make Android phones in five years time which is in line with the end of five years promise the Chinese government got from Google to keep Android open-source in exchange to agree to the acquisition. No one has ever questioned why a Government has to request something that allegedly free and open-source already as a bargaining chip? This is something Google doesn't want anyone [General Public] to know.
Your predictions are based on personal assumptions and a complete lack of knowledge regarding corporate acquisitions imo, and the resulting restructuring that occurs, and nothing to do with the article you have put up a link to. Every major organization which is bought out by another, usually bigger, organization goes through major restructuring, layoffs, plant/site closures, and ultimately alignment with the corporate strategies of the purchasing body. Customer service and support always suffers through this teething period. I predict Motorola Mobility won't even exist in 5 years, let alone design and manufacture devices. They will either be stripped and sold off, or swallowed whole and devoured by Google, but then again, my predictions are also assumptions.
If you agree with any of the points in above then you should realise Motorola Mobility now is an unreliable company to purchase hardware from which require constant software updates i.e. Smartphones.
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Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.

CaelanT said:
Cutting R&D costs doesn't necessarily mean an organization is going out of business, or stopping development. It can simply mean they have defined where Motorola was going wrong, and are adjusting for future R&D and NPI activities. If they plan on releasing only a couple of high end devices a year, why would they need a large R&D team. You keep the cream and trim the fat. Retain the achievers and get rid of the slackers.
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Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile.
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded.
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did.

I'm so glad Motorola split. I love Motorola hardware.
Sent from my Atrix 4g MB860 running leaked official Motorola ICS

Slymayer said:
Well... It just looks like Google wants to annihilate Motorola. Now they got their tech, they don't care about Moto anymore. They have a partnership with Samsung for a long time now, we can't expect a Motorola-made Nexus device anymore.
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I don't think many of us were expecting a Motorola nexus device.
Sent from my MB855 using xda premium

CSharpHeaven said:
Google's Android mission is not what it makes to the naked eyes. Something I have always claimed
You say you have always claimed this, so you must have a theory as to what they are really doing?
Entities refer to those who are part of Android Alliance program for instance. So please explain where you get this theory of passing on financial losses from.
I have been writing about Android on XDA on many occasions, some were talk of tech-media months later. I have removed some content (in form of article) from XDA before in protest of a thread closure. I'm learning to move on from incidents like that now. You can search my threads from my profile. I'm not protesting your thread, and it makes no difference to me how much you have written about Android. I could write about knitting all day,but that doesn't mean I know how to "stitch one".
I formed my opinion on Motorola mainly based on actual shortcomings in the past nearly two years that has nothing to do with their budgets. However, I have to remind you that Motorola had the money to give one individual person [Sanjay Jha] $66m and god knows how much collectively the executives received but Motorola, apparently, didn't have the money to hire contractors for six months to cook the ICS ROM for us. So I might don't know how much budget they have but for sure I know Motorola Mobility has no clue in "budgeting" plan. We all know corporate big wigs get massive payouts. That's a given in any large corporation. Where do you get that Motorola couldn't afford to hire contractors from? I'm betting Motorola/Google have very good experience in budgeting. Companies do not grow as big as them without strategic budgeting, and a ruthless business sense. New technology is all about time to market............beating your competitor to release. It's never been about consumers, and this has nothing to do with budgets in the sense of lack of budget, but rather huge ROIC numbers of 25+% being required by greedy shareholders who will cancel NPI projects in the blink of an eye if they do not meet target costs of 60%-62% profit margins.
It is well documented what Chinese government asked regarding Android remain open-source for the next five years. Google it please. Take my word for it, many things in this acquisition will remain secret anyway. Please read your own comment in the same section to see how contradictory you sounded. I have not argued this point with regards to the Chinese government, but rather the 5 year part. I see it that they will not exist in 5 years because if they aren't making phones they have nothing to exist for other than development, and they will be wholly integrated into Google by then. If Google doesn't want anyone to know, then how do you know?
I have never made a link between R&D cost cutting and Motorola Mobility being shut down. I haven't even said Motorola Mobility was going bust soon, you did. Seems like your whole post was pointed at budgetary cuts, R&D activity cost cutting, and Moto Mobility not making phones in 5 years. Maybe I was incorrect in reading between the lines and seeing reduced budgets, job losses, and a 5 year life span. In any event, what you said does not reflect the article you linked to other than R&D spending cuts.
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Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!

CaelanT said:
Anyway, I'm on my hols for 2 weeks after tomorrow, so I'm gonna go have a beer or three!
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Back in March 2012 I started a thread with the following title: "Android a Fragmented, Differentiated, and Misrepresented Platform". I completed the first six parts taking me over 100 hours of work before I removed them which I have already provided the reason. I still have a copy of the original works. As you can guess by now, it would take a lot of effort just to answer your first question. I might complete the articles or use them as part of other future articles one day.
When others investing money in developing hardware for Android then Google has nothing to lose should market take a 360 degree on Android for instance.
You are assured bragging about something is not my style but I will go to the end of the world for what I believe in. Several parts of the articles actually covered the technical side of Android rather than the business model of it.
Sorry I can't make any useful comment about your fourth paragraph. I made a point and you turned into a very complicated matter in particular in the beginning of your paragraph.
I was actually being very careful to write Motorola Mobility wouldn't (most likely but not surely) make hardware such as smartphones in fives years time when it requires constant software support. The reason was Motorola Mobility develops other products such as Bluetooth headphones, TV Set Box, and etc.
It is my fault not citing from the article in the first place which was the following;
"Other impacted territories are Asia and India, with cuts in R&D spending across various locations in Chicago, Sunnyvale, and Beijing."
In my opinion the intention of Google to cut spending in R&D is far more important than what was being reported which was Google has realised even scaling down is going cost the company a fortune.
This is what wikipedia has to say about R&D
"In one model, the primary function of an R&D group is to develop new products; in the other model, the primary function of an R&D group is to discover and create new knowledge about scientific and technological topics for the purpose of uncovering and enabling development of valuable new products, processes, and services." -- Wikipedia
Even if Motorola Mobility uses both models that were described in above description one can say (as I did) Motorola Mobility or rather Google planned (might still be on) to stop or reduce developing new products or innovating new products/services/technology (second model). Obviously when R&D is scaled down then all the forces across all business processes also need to be scaled down otherwise, the business is simply will waste money.
Motorola Mobility stock share should lose values based on this report alone because clearly Motorola Mobility no longer wishes to be proactive in the very competitive market. From consumers point of view this should be a further warning that things are not promising at all.
Enjoy your long holiday and see you around on XDA soon.

I remember the article you wrote because I read it. Why you had to remove it I have no idea, and I am disappointed that you did.
<edit> Went back and looked through that thread. And here I thought I could be a royal arse at times! XDA can be a very rough place sometimes.
That being said, I manage R&D activities in a very large global company which is 85% focused on R&D and NPI, with very little manufacturing occurring other than with 3rd party vendors in low cost countries.
All arguments aside, I was pushing for an explanation of your comments which did not seem to relate much to the article you linked, or the thread title. Your last post explains your reasoning behind your comments much better.
Cheers!

Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860

tomh235 said:
Software development costs could be being cut as Google may be moving Motorola onto having a pure android experience. As Google has its own devs, why get moto to change anything?
Sent from my MB860
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Thank you for your inputs. I have to disagree with your point on pure Android experience which you must meant Nexus phones. I'm glad you mentioned that since I had few things to say about it.
As it has been reported Google is expanding its Nexus program to allow multiple manufacturers to release their own Nexus version. A careful examination would reveal a brand in Android ecosystem only would be distinguishable by differentiation i.e. Home Launchers and features. Many Android users would agree that they often miss features when move on to a pure Android experience.
Now here is my take on the Nexus program. Not many people noted that the Nexus program has brought a huge financial reward to the manufacturers who participated in it by actually establishing themselves in Android market generating more revenue from selling their other product lines. Samsung is very good example, while their Nexus range did well but SGII, GNote (probably equal to GNexus), and SGIII did far better. HTC only has itself to blame for not taking advantage of the opportunity and even though the following year of their Nexus release they did well but they went down the hill by releasing handsets that were aggressively designed for profits only i.e. the Sensation range.
The same pattern can also be observed in Google Store where developers participate in Google's promotional programs where they reduce their prices for a period of time but end up with significant revenue increase and jumping ranking position in application listings.
Now that this marketing method has been proven to work with Android consumers it would be feasible for other manufacturers to join the Nexus program, at same time. I have my reservations about the impact of more than two manufacturers participating in the Nexus program.
What concerns me the most about Nexus program is its hidden agenda. For one, Google has been trying to make Cloud services as a vital entity in their mobile platform. The obsession with cloud services is a worrying factor especially when all parties (i.e., Google, Manufacturers, and Network Operators) involved wanting your data to be stored on their servers. Nexus phones share one feature in common and that is the ommission of the SD-Card port. The LG Optimus Nexus has been said not to have the SD-Card port either. Please remember, if corporates fail to predict the consumers behaviour correctly then they would attempt to introduce that behaviour to the consumers eventually.
I know Google enough (observations) to know they don't rush into things for not being noticed. While they have good alliances with their business partners but they can seek other agendas at same time. In the world of politics it is known as "Parallel Politics". Google is the most involved tech company in the world with global politic activities. I'm willing to say, their involvement is almost in the same level as the USA government in many terms.
In my opinion the lack of upgrades would be in Google's benefits since they own and run the Nexus program itself and in our case (Atrix and Proton owners) they own Motorola anyway. Motorola's Patents was a good reasoning point, for general public, to acquire Motorola but I have my feelings it was more than the patents, keeping my eyes on this anyway.
Sorry, I never meant to write this much but now that I did I would like also to expose the $100 offer program from Motorola. A publicity stunt that would look Motorola to come across considerate when it is hardly going to cost them anything in fact. Here are my reasons;
- Upset Motorola users wouldn't want anything to do with Motorola anymore therefore the $100 is worthless
- Many users have claimed they can get more money by selling their phones. The $100 offer therefore is worthless.
- Considering the above point Motorola in fact is ripping Motorola users twice over. Remember you have to give up your phone to quality for $100
- Virtually all Network Operators have recycling-program where they buy back phones. Therefore Motorola did not offer anything new to the ripped off customers
- A cheap attempt by Motorola to keep consumers on their brand to shift more new phones, in numbers, for future financial reports
Update:
Droid-life just reported the following; "Server Logs Hint at Motorola Nexus Tablet and Phone?"
Source: http://www.droid-life.com/2012/10/05/server-logs-hint-at-motorola-nexus-tablet-and-phone/
Busy time for Nexus Program this year where potentially five manufacturers (Motorola, Asus, HTC, Samsung, LG) will have Nexus devices out before the year is out.

Do you think we will still get the magazine ux?

After what happened with Google telling Samsung to change the magazine ux and stuff do you think we will still get the update cause I think they are going to change the ui again.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Any source?

Yes, but the next generation won't. Devices and updates are developed months and years ahead. So big changes will probably come in the next generation
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Samsung and Google recently sign a new 10yr deal and within that deal Samsung has agreed to cut but on its bloatwares and turn towards a more Google type user interface. Means we will see a cut back on touchwiz, chaton QUOTE: may but stop in favour of Google chat. Mag ui and may other of Samsung's features will lean towards Google. Look in the technology section of Flipboard and you will find a statement from Samsung which talks about what I have mentioned here.

As I know, the South Korean Government forces mobile makers to reduce bloatware. I thought that Magazine UX is Samsungs backup plan: Create a user interface, which makes migration to other brands with more standard interfaces difficult, just like switching between platforms.
And, of course, apps on the Mag Ux launcher have to be aquired via the Samsung store and will be lost if u go Huawei or something.

Google didn't "tell" Samsung to do anything (or vice versa). A cooperation agreement was reached that could range from something as simple as sharing their mutual patent portfolios during litigation to Google using Samsung innovations (like S Pen) on h/w they may develop. Samsung's biggest threat to Google/Android isn't TW and M-UX, it's Tizen. We have no idea what the practical implications of the agreement are and neither does the press OP is quoting. Whatever the deal is it isn't going to be implemented overnight (it's a 10 year deal) and certainly isn't going to affect 2014 devices and that includes the SGS5 which is 90-95% through its development cycle. Samsung's having margin problems because of the maturation of smartphones in Western markets. They aren't going to do anything knee jerk (kill TW and M-UX) that could further exacerbate their financial situation. And many agreements signed in good faith can unravel as each party's interpretation of what they just agreed to is tested as the agreement is implemented.

Where do you guys get this "Clean" Android thing for Samsung??
The *only* official statement regarding the Samsung-Google deal is this:
http://global.samsungtomorrow.com/?p=33461
It's a patent licensing deal, the same deal that Samsung has with IBM and Nokia for years. It's a similar deal for which Samsung paid 650 million to make use of Ericsson patents.
The only source for this new speculation comes from a Re/code's article:
http://recode.net/2014/01/29/after-...will-dial-back-android-tweaks-homegrown-apps/
This is little more than speculation at this time without any proof at all. Do you think Samsung will suddenly change plans for its GS5 UI at this last minute and miss out on sales of millions of units? Why should they do so? What does Samsung gain by this? There is not a single advantage for Samsung by going 'stock-ish' apart for pleasing some irrelevant geeks.
If you think so much about rumours, you need to also think about the rumour reported recently that MS is paying 1 billion to Samsung to start pushing flagship devices with WP.

gamerdad09 said:
Hearsay...
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Additional stories from other sites all quoting the original unsubstantiated story don't make the original story any more valid.

gamerdad09 said:
You have to admit though with Google signing a deal with Samsung, then suddenly selling off Motorola to Lenovo that it all does sound connected.
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Samsung and Google are both public companies that file their financial performance quarterly. When entering deals their only motive is to drive profits and revenue higher. Pure Google devices are attractive to enthusiasts (5% of the market) and, purely because of Google's subsidization, bargain hunters. Samsung's spent billions in R&D on s/w to differentiate their Android devices in the market. Their massive market share would point to that as a successful strategy. What's in it for Samsung to suddenly make "Pure Google" attractive? Going that way relegates them to a defacto h/w purveyor with Google in control of the user experience. Does that seem logical to you or a place Samsung wants to find itself?
As for Motorola, it was a stupid acquisition going in and analysts are relieved Google unwound a bad bet that was a consistent profit drain on Google's earnings. Whether or not it has anything to do with the Samsung/Google deal isn't know and the logic of unloading Motorola stands on its own just fine.