Hello community,
I have started a petition against AT&T regarding their practices against the deaf community and could really use your help and support. I have already obtained just over 2000 signatures but need a lot more. Please take a moment to read and help out, it is greatly appreciated. Don't forget to pass it along... Thanks! :thumbup:
http://www.change.org/petitions/at-...ium=email&utm_campaign=signature_goal_reached
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Signed and shared.
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Signed. HTH
ATT fails with their shenanigans almost as much as apple. So it does not really surprise me. I signed it because we are all equal.
papabear said:
ATT fails with their shenanigans almost as much as apple. So it does not really surprise me. I signed it because we are all equal.
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Could not agree more.. Big thanks to all who have taken the time to sign.
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Sounds like this needs some publicity...
Have you contacted the Aclu?
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waiters said:
Sounds like this needs some publicity...
Have you contacted the Aclu?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda premium
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I have not... I am working with a campaigner at change.org trying to get this thing to take off. Aclu is a good idea, I'll give it a shot today. Thanks for the input. :thumbup:
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Just an update.. I have almost 2500 signatures, also advocacy groups are threatening to file a complaint with the FCC and the FCC has responded saying they would take action if necessary. Thanks to all who have viewed this and signed the petition.
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Where it says "In emergency situations where texting isn't an option or there's no Wifi available, mobile FaceTime could be a lifesaver." In what situation can you not text but you can use your data connection to facetime? and you're deaf so you have to use hand signals right? So you may encounter a situation where you cannot text, but you can sign over facetime? That doesn't even make sense.
You basically want to legally force a company to alter their pricing because you feel that with a physical disadvantage you cannot utilize every aspect of their service?
I don't know about that one, unless I am missing something here. They are not discriminating against anyone per this, because you could just as easily say that every cable company is discriminating against blind people by not offering audio only TV shows...
What am I missing? How is AT&T discriminating?
orangekid said:
Where it says "In emergency situations where texting isn't an option or there's no Wifi available, mobile FaceTime could be a lifesaver." In what situation can you not text but you can use your data connection to facetime? and you're deaf so you have to use hand signals right? So you may encounter a situation where you cannot text, but you can sign over facetime? That doesn't even make sense.
You basically want to legally force a company to alter their pricing because you feel that with a physical disadvantage you cannot utilize every aspect of their service?
I don't know about that one, unless I am missing something here. They are not discriminating against anyone per this, because you could just as easily say that every cable company is discriminating against blind people by not offering audio only TV shows...
What am I missing? How is AT&T discriminating?
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Grouchy.
I signed it because I have friends who are deaf and anything I can do to help them is good and also I hate AT&T.
MrObvious said:
Grouchy.
I signed it because I have friends who are deaf and anything I can do to help them is good and also I hate AT&T.
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lol what's up Mr O!
I personally don't care one way or the other, I think maybe I am just missing something.
I don't like ATT at all either, which is why I use T-Mobile. Maybe someone can explain where the discrimination is here so we're all clear. I just don't like the idea of forcing companies to adjust their pricing, like if I had a company I should be able to charge what I want and if it's too much people just won't buy from me...
Eespecially when there are many other phone choices and many other carrier choices (you could use an Android device with an FFC on T-Mobile for instance)
orangekid said:
Where it says "In emergency situations where texting isn't an option or there's no Wifi available, mobile FaceTime could be a lifesaver." In what situation can you not text but you can use your data connection to facetime? and you're deaf so you have to use hand signals right? So you may encounter a situation where you cannot text, but you can sign over facetime? That doesn't even make sense.
You basically want to legally force a company to alter their pricing because you feel that with a physical disadvantage you cannot utilize every aspect of their service?
I don't know about that one, unless I am missing something here. They are not discriminating against anyone per this, because you could just as easily say that every cable company is discriminating against blind people by not offering audio only TV shows...
What am I missing? How is AT&T discriminating?
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Hello orangekid,
To put it simply, yes they should alter pricing. Are you okay with paying for things you can't use?
By AT&T not allowing a deaf user face time access through their TAP plan (text accessibility program) but forcing them to buy a voice plan, wouldn't you agree this is a form of discrimination? Your comparison regarding blind people is a moot point... no one is forcing blind people to buy tv service they would most likely not use. AT&T however, tells their customers in order to use a service of ours (which deaf people can fully utilize) they have to pay for something they can never use, voice minutes. I take it you did not take the time to read the comments in the petition? At this point I have 2404 people who feel AT&T is discriminating, a lot of them are members of the deaf community. If your sole purpose was to just come here and try to ruffle some feathers, please refrain from doing so. If you don't agree or don't want to sign the petition, don't post. I'm not trying to be a jerk I just posted here for people who would like to support this cause. Thank you.
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Signed good luck !
Signed.
HarlanPepper0010 said:
Hello orangekid,
To put it simply, yes they should alter pricing. Are you okay with paying for things you can't use?
By AT&T not allowing a deaf user face time access through their TAP plan (text accessibility program) but forcing them to buy a voice plan, wouldn't you agree this is a form of discrimination? Your comparison regarding blind people is a moot point... no one is forcing blind people to buy tv service they would most likely not use. AT&T however, tells their customers in order to use a service of ours (which deaf people can fully utilize) they have to pay for something they can never use, voice minutes. I take it you did not take the time to read the comments in the petition? At this point I have 2404 people who feel AT&T is discriminating, a lot of them are members of the deaf community. If your sole purpose was to just come here and try to ruffle some feathers, please refrain from doing so. If you don't agree or don't want to sign the petition, don't post. I'm not trying to be a jerk I just posted here for people who would like to support this cause. Thank you.
Sent from my PC36100 using Xparent ICS Blue Tapatalk 2
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I am just trying to understand what you are actually against. I did read some of the comments, and it's not really that hard to get 2,000 signatures for ANY cause. Like I stated already, I may just have something confused here. You can choose to buy AT&T or not right? I mean why not get Sprint or Verizon or T-Mobile with an Android phone, why is FaceTime such a requirement?
Besides, isn't there a data only plan you can get on AT&T, like for people with iPads?
I'm being 100% honest when I say I'm not trying to "ruffle some feathers" I just don't see specifically what the discrimination is.
If your take is "if you can't see what the obvious discrimination is then I won't waste my time explaining it to you" or "I still think you're just trying to get under my skin and really do see discrimination but are only pretending not to" then it is what it is, but that's not my intention.
Maybe I just don't fully understand what your service is and why it can only be used on an iPhone or on AT&T.
orangekid said:
I am just trying to understand what you are actually against. I did read some of the comments, and it's not really that hard to get 2,000 signatures for ANY cause. Like I stated already, I may just have something confused here. You can choose to buy AT&T or not right? I mean why not get Sprint or Verizon or T-Mobile with an Android phone, why is FaceTime such a requirement?
Besides, isn't there a data only plan you can get on AT&T, like for people with iPads?
I'm being 100% honest when I say I'm not trying to "ruffle some feathers" I just don't see specifically what the discrimination is.
If your take is "if you can't see what the obvious discrimination is then I won't waste my time explaining it to you" or "I still think you're just trying to get under my skin and really do see discrimination but are only pretending not to" then it is what it is, but that's not my intention.
Maybe I just don't fully understand what your service is and why it can only be used on an iPhone or on AT&T.
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Hello again Orangekid,
All you are doing is answering your own questions. You know why I am doing this, but continue to press the issue. I am petitioning AT&T to stop discriminating deaf people by charging them for something they can't use. (Voice minutes)
It's nice to have choices right? If AT&T works the best for some users, they should be able to use it without restrictions or additional charges for something unusable. If you can't seem to understand this cause, I encourage you to Google it so you can find the answer you are looking for. There are plenty of articles you may read regarding this topic. I have read many.
You obviously are not finding your answer here since you did not read my last post which states; if you don't support this or don't want to sign, simply don't post... by posting what you did.. "If your take is "if you can't see what the obvious discrimination is then I won't waste my time explaining it to you" or "I still think you're just trying to get under my skin and really do see discrimination but are only pretending not to" then it is what it is, but that's not my intention." It is your intention, otherwise you would not have posted. Thank you.
Also thanks again to all who have signed so far.
Sent from my PC36100 using Xparent ICS Blue Tapatalk 2
HarlanPepper0010 said:
Hello again Orangekid,
All you are doing is answering your own questions. You know why I am doing this, but continue to press the issue. I am petitioning AT&T to stop discriminating deaf people by charging them for something they can't use. (Voice minutes)
It's nice to have choices right? If AT&T works the best for some users, they should be able to use it without restrictions or additional charges for something unusable. If you can't seem to understand this cause, I encourage you to Google it so you can find the answer you are looking for. There are plenty of articles you may read regarding this topic. I have read many.
You obviously are not finding your answer here since you did not read my last post which states; if you don't support this or don't want to sign, simply don't post... by posting what you did.. "If your take is "if you can't see what the obvious discrimination is then I won't waste my time explaining it to you" or "I still think you're just trying to get under my skin and really do see discrimination but are only pretending not to" then it is what it is, but that's not my intention." It is your intention, otherwise you would not have posted. Thank you.
Also thanks again to all who have signed so far.
Sent from my PC36100 using Xparent ICS Blue Tapatalk 2
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You're obviously not understanding what I am saying, that's fine I guess I can't expect everyone to. I haven't answered any of my questions, nor have you; repeating the same mission statement over and over does not an answer make. You factually utterly ignored my question on how you could possibly find yourself in an emergency situation where you cannot text, but you can use your hands to activate FaceTime and use that instead (an example showing how it is indeed discrimination).
If this petition doesn't work out I suggest you switch to Android or another carrier, you might also have better luck avoiding an ETF by bringing up this topic as opposed trying to change their entire pricing system, which seems to be making them money.
I will stop posting in this thread since I won't be getting any of my questions answered here anyways.
Good luck with your endeavors
orangekid said:
You're obviously not understanding what I am saying, that's fine I guess I can't expect everyone to. I haven't answered any of my questions, nor have you; repeating the same mission statement over and over does not an answer make. You factually utterly ignored my question on how you could possibly find yourself in an emergency situation where you cannot text, but you can use your hands to activate FaceTime and use that instead (an example showing how it is indeed discrimination).
If this petition doesn't work out I suggest you switch to Android or another carrier, you might also have better luck avoiding an ETF by bringing up this topic as opposed trying to change their entire pricing system, which seems to be making them money.
I will stop posting in this thread since I won't be getting any of my questions answered here anyways.
Good luck with your endeavors
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To satisfy your insatiable thirst to find an answer you can't find here... Texting uses cellular minutes. FaceTime uses data. In an emergency, take an earthquake for example (there was a decent one not to long ago here in California) cellular lines were so jammed with people making calls to friends and family I was unable to make any calls nor send any texts. Data however was unaffected.
Now a hearing person could easily open the app and contact through FaceTime since most likely they have a voice plan. Why would or should a deaf person pay for voice minutes just to use this service? When they are the ones who would benefit the most from it. I have made this point in my last few posts which you have obviously ignored. Are there other options? of course there are but as I stated in my last post, which again you ignored. If AT&T and FaceTime work the best for some they should have access to all services without paying for something unusable..
I have answered your questions in the best capacity I can. You however do not want an answer You obviously just want to make a point. You are right and I am wrong. How's that working out for you? Just remember you started this, I kindly asked if you don't agree or don't want to sign please don't post. Something you have ignored again. I see a trend here.
My suggestion to you is to imagine yourself as a deaf person. Take away the ability to just pick-up a phone and call your family or friends. Take away the ability to just turn on the TV, walk away from it and still know what is going on. Try going to see a movie in the theater. Try turning on the radio, or listening to music. How bout a concert? Simple things us hearing individuals take for granted. You think it's hard finding work for a hearing person in this country, try finding one as a deaf individual. I understand this because I have seen and lived with it for 32 years, people do not choose to be deaf; why should they be charged for a service they can not use? If you really think that by coming in here and playing dumb; looking for an answer but not wanting to hear my response will sway my decision or make me rethink my stance, you sir (or ma'am) are wrong. I stand by this petition. Have a nice day.
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HarlanPepper0010 said:
To satisfy your insatiable thirst to find an answer you can't find here... Texting uses cellular minutes. FaceTime uses data. In an emergency, take an earthquake for example (there was a decent one not to long ago here in California) cellular lines were so jammed with people making calls to friends and family I was unable to make any calls nor send any texts. Data however was unaffected.
Now a hearing person could easily open the app and contact through FaceTime since most likely they have a voice plan. Why would or should a deaf person pay for voice minutes just to use this service? When they are the ones who would benefit the most from it. I have made this point in my last few posts which you have obviously ignored. Are there other options? of course there are but as I stated in my last post, which again you ignored. If AT&T and FaceTime work the best for some they should have access to all services without paying for something unusable..
I have answered your questions in the best capacity I can. You however do not want an answer You obviously just want to make a point. You are right and I am wrong. How's that working out for you? Just remember you started this, I kindly asked if you don't agree or don't want to sign please don't post. Something you have ignored again. I see a trend here.
My suggestion to you is to imagine yourself as a deaf person. Take away the ability to just pick-up a phone and call your family or friends. Take away the ability to just turn on the TV, walk away from it and still know what is going on. Try going to see a movie in the theater. Try turning on the radio, or listening to music. How bout a concert? Simple things us hearing individuals take for granted. You think it's hard finding work for a hearing person in this country, try finding one as a deaf individual. I understand this because I have seen and lived with it for 32 years, people do not choose to be deaf; why should they be charged for a service they can not use? If you really think that by coming in here and playing dumb; looking for an answer but not wanting to hear my response will sway my decision or make me rethink my stance, you sir (or ma'am) are wrong. I stand by this petition. Have a nice day.
Sent from my PC36100 using Xparent ICS Blue Tapatalk 2
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It's not so much a matter of convenience as sign language is another language and their native language. If you asked someone from Mexico who just got done taking English classes if they would rather speak to everyone in English or Spanish they would say Spanish because they are fluent in it. Basically the point about deaf people is some don't do English very well to begin with but sign fluently. They can get confused by English grammar and it's very hard to understand when they do something like a text message, but they understand a video of a sign language sentence much better. Also, when they make bibles for deaf people, it is a video of a person signing the scriptures, not a written text. Why? Some deaf people do as well with English as I do with Spanish.
That's one reason. I hope I didn't offend anyone with this post but I was just making a point for Orangekid. If I did I do apologize as it was not intentional.
HarlanPepper0010 said:
You are right and I am wrong.
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HarlanPepper0010 said:
you sir (or ma'am) are wrong.
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Sorry that's a little confusing.
I wasn't trying to make a point, I really was curious. Your explanation on the data/texting thing was a good one, was that so hard? I'm sorry you're taking this so personally. Despite our exchanges I have tried to stay polite, and assert that I wasn't trying to argue or just be difficult but really was trying to grasp what the issue truly was.
The fact that you blatantly refuse to believe this and have hard bent on attempting to create a scare-crow argument and attacking that as if this were a debate and not a mere request for clarification on the matter, as if repeatedly stating your arbitrary opinion of my purposes makes it true, shows me that you are indeed taking my efforts to merely truly understand the position as a personal attack on said position. I'm sorry but you seem to be arguing with someone else and putting their face on my words. Let me be as clear as I possibly can so we can settle the matter once and for all.
1) I did no understand if the petition was to change AT&T's normal pricing policy or if there was a special pricing plan that included features you didn't want that you wanted changed.
2) I did not understand why a deaf person would HAVE to use an iPhone and HAVE to use FaceTime and HAVE to use AT&T, and I wondered if a similar petition existed for the other "big 3" with their pricing and packages. This led me to believe that I must misunderstand the entire petition.
3) I am not implying that your purposes are malevolent, communistic, naive, or anything other than what you state, I am merely seek to fully understand them.
Keep in mind you posted a thread in a public forum urging people to share your views and sign your petition. When you do such, you open yourself to queries about the thread and you cannot "kick out" anyone who merely asks a question about it. if I were offering a counter-position, which I stopped after the first post because I began to doubt exactly what that position was, I would still have a right to post it here. I can see how my first post here can be taken that way, but as I said I then wondered if I completely mistook the entire position.
I don't have a problem with you, this thread, this petition, deaf people, or any other demographic. I'm sorry this blew up out of proportion and I'm sorry you mistook me and that you are taking things so personally.
No matter how many times and in what ways you state that my motives are to "prove a point" or stir trouble as it were, it is untrue. I wished only to give further stage to this matter and to clarify it.
Related
guys, i started a discussion on GOOGLES FORUM regarding the implementation of google voice. PLEASE, add this. I use this so much, as do my colleagues, that im baffled by it not being used, especially since we all have ported numbers, it would be picture perfect. even if you dont have it....please just agree on the forum for them to add it so they can see the consumer need of it.
thank you CLICK BELOW (also please respond on this thread to let us all know you are helping the cause)
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/voice/thread?tid=2fb03f3bf8a77ef9&hl=en
I would be tempted to PAY people to post there, I am so sick of them NOT adding these functions to the tablets due to US carrier greed and stupidity.
posted there...
Its moving fast!
Thank you guys. keep it going, google will listen. and even IF they were going to implement it...this will help them let us know..cause honestly..the suspense is killer.
Lets Go!
dudeimgeorge said:
guys, i started a discussion on GOOGLES FORUM regarding the implementation of google voice. PLEASE, add this. I use this so much, as do my colleagues, that im baffled by it not being used, especially since we all have ported numbers, it would be picture perfect. even if you dont have it....please just agree on the forum for them to add it so they can see the consumer need of it.
thank you CLICK BELOW (also please respond on this thread to let us all know you are helping the cause)
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/voice/thread?tid=2fb03f3bf8a77ef9&hl=en
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Help me understand how you want to use this with the Xoom. I know a little about Google Voice but I do not integrate it with my current phone... only play with it on the side.
Ok I read that thread. Someone help me understand something... do you guys want to carry around your Xoom and use it as your phone? Why?
I have no plans to stop using my Nexus One. I feel like a loser because I don't understand the big deal here. Someone explain it to me like I'm a child.
jesus christ no
ok clearly you dont get it. not a big deal.
its more then that, lets say im on my tablet, phone not near me
voice mails get transcribed/organized from it as well as textmessages (that are done through data!)
everything can be starred, controlled and archived
meaning you can organize your information on a much better level.
you can control how a voicemail are answered for particular people, have a do not disturb time as well.
you can download voice mails and phonecall recordings, and mail them.
its not so i can have a oversized phone. its just much, much more than that, and so convenient, so i can have that information on me and control it.
I hope this helped. you should try youtubing google voice videos to see just how amazing it is.
if you dont find it to fit your needs i understand (or you probably didnt really read more into it, i just got into it last year and pretty much got ALOT of people in it as well)
please help at least on the forum, much appreciated.
Yes, I'm looking forward to the day I can hold my Xoom to my head while walking through NYC and talking to my friends
I use GV on my ipad as I'll get text messages on that number. The GV client is for the iphone and doesn't scale up as nicely but it works. Also, I find it easier to listen to email and take notes on the larger screen.
Posted. Thanks for the link, that was quick and simple to add a reply on.
Lets cross our fingers!
I would've put money on this being an app Google would've included with the launch of 3.0. Posted.
thanks.
Posted.
Totally needs to be ported over.
posted
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Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
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Yeah can't believe that it's not implemented...posted
Off to throw in my comment. Count me into the people who don't use GV for voice, but for SMS and retrieving my VoiceMail. I'm in Europe a couple of times a year and this lets me stay connected to people in the States as it all works on WiFi too.
I'll bet that the only reason the .APK is FCing is 'cause it's tripping over the APIs needed for telephony, which probably aren't in a tablet-only codebase (right now). It might be as simple (OK, probably not ) as commenting that code out?
How about you just use it via the browser for now? Like how it was done on iPhone before apple let the app on the market.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
... because if I'm going to have to manually check my browser every few minutes to see if I've gotten an SMS, it somewhat defeats the point doncha think? I've moved nearly everything that sends SMS (even my credit cards and my airlines) to GV SMS because you're not tied to any particular carrier.
Luckily I'm still carrying an Android phone so I get my notifications there, but I've piled on in the request thread so that they can hopefully get what must be a relatively-straightforward fix in before I have to leave the States again- I'd like to be able to use my Xoom for everything while abroad.
keep it going
decent amount of people have posted, im surpised google mods havent replied. ive seen them do some swift replies else where for the most part too...intresting
I've never used it but there again, I've never owned an Android-based device. Just wanted to support your endeavors!
Hey everyone, being as this is a webcast about Android Development I'm not sure if it belongs here or in "General" so Mods please move it if you think it doesn't belong.
Anyway, lets get on the AT&T webcast tomorrow and bug them about bootloader access, you do have to register to participate but it's easy enough. It begins at 11AM PST and says it is an hour long. You need Microsoft Office Live Meeting (or you could call in) but it's free to download.
http://developer.att.com/developer/forward.jsp?passedItemId=5300338
I fully realize that this may be a futile action but in my experience persistence pays off and I'm not done bothering them quite yet, maybe 6 months down the road if they still aren't doing anything for us I'll give, but not yet!
Aside: I'm assuming that since this uses full featured meeting software there will be an opportunity to ask questions.
Awesome! Yes, please do! It worked for HSUPA, it is worth a shot.
...why would you bug AT&T about a Motorola device? Waste of effort.
Ririal said:
...why would you bug AT&T about a Motorola device? Waste of effort.
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Presenters:
Greg Wilson, Technology Evangelist, Motorola Mobility
Greg is a Technology Evangelist at Motorola Mobility, helping developers to create the best possible Android applications. Prior to joining Motorola, Greg was at Palm (and its various incarnations) doing similar work for the Palm OS developer community. Greg has been programming since the early days of the microcomputer, and has written software for programmable calculators, IBM mainframes, and an assortment of microprocessor architectures and microcomputer operating systems.
Peter van der Linden, Technology Evangelist, Motorola Mobility
Peter is the Android Technology Evangelist within the Developer Tools and Technical Services team at Motorola. He is not afraid of bugs, and has a collection of several prize bugs (software only).
They work for Motorola.
youareme7 said:
Hey everyone, being as this is a webcast about Android Development I'm not sure if it belongs here or in "General" so Mods please move it if you think it doesn't belong.
Anyway, lets get on the AT&T webcast tomorrow and bug them about bootloader access, you do have to register to participate but it's easy enough. It begins at 11AM PST and says it is an hour long. You need Microsoft Office Live Meeting (or you could call in) but it's free to download.
http://developer.att.com/developer/forward.jsp?passedItemId=5300338
I fully realize that this may be a futile action but in my experience persistence pays off and I'm not done bothering them quite yet, maybe 6 months down the road if they still aren't doing anything for us I'll give, but not yet!
Aside: I'm assuming that since this uses full featured meeting software there will be an opportunity to ask questions.
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Make sure to point out the number of people that want this.
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
I'm not going to be able to watch and partcipate for this. I would like if someone could record this conference.
Thanks.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
Ririal said:
...why would you bug AT&T about a Motorola device? Waste of effort.
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Because AT&T is behind 99pct of the problems with the Atrix:
- No Side Loading - AT&T
- Reduced Speeds - AT&T
- No Root Access - AT&T
Motorola made it pretty clear pre-release they wanted to open up the bootloader, AT&T obviously shut that down.
maybe they will give us the key for the bootloader, probably not, however its a good place to voice our concern
hate_Romania said:
maybe they will give us the key for the bootloader, probably not, however its a good place to voice our concern
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I doubt it. I asked in their MotoDev forum.
http://community.developer.motorola...trix-App-summit-on-March-29th-2011/td-p/12350
I'm not sure if it would actually do us any good, but I mean i guess it would be worth a try. Who is all gunna be the conference tomorrow??
I think (When it comes to their "bootloader solution") what they meant to say was "We do what we think is right when it comes to working with devs and customers, and will continue to do so in the future". And, what everyone took that to mean was "THEY ARE GONNA UNLOCK THE BOOTLOADER FOR US". I'm not saying I agree AT ALL, I just sometimes try to look at it from both sides.
I definitely want this thing unlocked, but I'm not counting on Moto to do too much about it. Not to say opinions shouldn't be voiced!
No one should be blaming ATT for the locked bootloader. Motorola's Droids (except for OG Droid) all have been locked down and they are on Verizon's network. Feel free to blame ATT for upload speeds, fake 4G, no sideloading, global warming, etc...
The Motorola employee that's going to be there is an application developer. He's unlikely to know anything about, much less have an answer for, anything about the bootloader. Harassing employees makes the entire community look bad and childish. If you have a REAL problem with it, other than bandwagon hatred for something a lot of you clearly don't understand, follow the appropriate channels. Lawyer up and file a formal complaint. Harassing them over the internet won't get you anywhere. If you REALLY believe that it's changed anything so far, I'm sorry you're that ignorant.
All the whining and harassing got nowhere, but when a thought out, well written petition was put into place and formal requests were made, look what happened: Motorola released their source. They didn't do it to "appease the masses", or to "shut us up." They did it because the proper channels were followed and they honored that. You have to understand that the amount of people who want the bootloader unlocked is a very, VERY small portion of their total userbase. It's entirely ignorant to claim that everyone wants this. Motorola isn't some evil overlord who wants their users to hate them. They're a business. Do you honestly think they'll care if a few hundred users out of the hundreds of thousands they have leave over the bootloader being locked? Unlikely. They've recognized the issue, and have announced they will have a solution for developers soon, which is more than they're even obligated to do in the first place. They don't owe you anything, having such an entitled attitude is hurtful to the entire process. Be patient.
I mean no disrespect to anyone in particular, so please, be respectful and mature of the situation. If you don't like it, that's fine, voice your opinion respectfully.
I second Ririal. Those two that are going to be presenting tomorrow are evangelists, and are going to be pretty in the dark about the situation.
I think the chat will be very interesting. Devs being there should be good for a prediction on where Moto plans to take the Atrix... wonder if we can ask questions in a round about way to see if they slip on how they unlock the bootloader to develop on the phone... lol yea I know wishful thinking this isn't a cartoon or movie lol but one can dream... I'll try and make the chat and see if I can record it for you guys
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
I have school at that time but can someone do me a favour and bug them about his.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=980047
Its common with half the people that unlocked the Atrix.
I have a meeting tomorrow and can't participate in the webcast.
However, would somebody _please_ tell them that there are companies out there who really want to develop applications for the webtop.
I have the go-ahead at work to port our primary Linux/X Windows application to the webtop on the Atrix, but cannot move forward so long as hacking/rooting the device is necessary. We can only develop using officially authorized channels.
Thanks in advance for anyone who can bring this up to them.
Ririal said:
The Motorola employee that's going to be there is an application developer. He's unlikely to know anything about, much less have an answer for, anything about the bootloader. Harassing employees makes the entire community look bad and childish. If you have a REAL problem with it, other than bandwagon hatred for something a lot of you clearly don't understand, follow the appropriate channels. Lawyer up and file a formal complaint. Harassing them over the internet won't get you anywhere. If you REALLY believe that it's changed anything so far, I'm sorry you're that ignorant.
All the whining and harassing got nowhere, but when a thought out, well written petition was put into place and formal requests were made, look what happened: Motorola released their source. They didn't do it to "appease the masses", or to "shut us up." They did it because the proper channels were followed and they honored that. You have to understand that the amount of people who want the bootloader unlocked is a very, VERY small portion of their total userbase. It's entirely ignorant to claim that everyone wants this. Motorola isn't some evil overlord who wants their users to hate them. They're a business. Do you honestly think they'll care if a few hundred users out of the hundreds of thousands they have leave over the bootloader being locked? Unlikely. They've recognized the issue, and have announced they will have a solution for developers soon, which is more than they're even obligated to do in the first place. They don't owe you anything, having such an entitled attitude is hurtful to the entire process. Be patient.
I mean no disrespect to anyone in particular, so please, be respectful and mature of the situation. If you don't like it, that's fine, voice your opinion respectfully.
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Agreed Ririal.
The petition I've started doesn't actually complain about anything, it asks for an announcement at the very least. Just something for Developers to be hopeful for. It also just requests an option for Developers not for everyone.
We are working very hard to follow the right channels on the topic and generate positive support to show Motorola that there is an enthusiastic user-base out there.
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
ikenley said:
Agreed Ririal.
The petition I've started doesn't actually complain about anything, it asks for an announcement at the very least. Just something for Developers to be hopeful for. It also just requests an option for Developers not for everyone.
We are working very hard to follow the right channels on the topic and generate positive support to show Motorola that there is an enthusiastic user-base out there.
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
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Absolutely. I saw your petition and have signed it. I'd love to see them, at the very least, give us an answer. We may not like it, but at least we'd have one instead of empty promises right now. No need to get upset about it, though
electronaut said:
I have a meeting tomorrow and can't participate in the webcast.
However, would somebody _please_ tell them that there are companies out there who really want to develop applications for the webtop.
I have the go-ahead at work to port our primary Linux/X Windows application to the webtop on the Atrix, but cannot move forward so long as hacking/rooting the device is necessary. We can only develop using officially authorized channels.
Thanks in advance for anyone who can bring this up to them.
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THIS THIS
Being able to create/load webtop apps would be an awesome feature that would turn the webtop from an interesting sideshow to a must-have.
I am hesitant to spend anything on the lapdock because I don't think it would be much more useful than the phone itself. If I could throw OpenOffice down on there or something using apt-get then I would totally buy it.
I understand that Moto might want to control the user experience, as nobody is going to be doing any high-powered computation or gaming on it, but third-party apps would be really neat.
Finally today i had enough... I filed a formal complaint with the FTC against motorola and all other mobile device manufacturers out lining the cause and effect of these companies selling us devices that we are made to be only users of rather than owners and administrators the devices we purchased. Nothing will change until we make some one step in and set the rules, i am encouraging everyone here on xda to do the same ... here is a link to the example complaint i filed and the link to the appropriate form to be filed
http://t0dbld.blogspot.com/2011/03/my-complaint-to-ftc-on-lock-bootloaders.html
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
Can I still do this as a Canadian Citizen or is it only for Americans?
mafiaboy01 said:
Can I still do this as a Canadian Citizen or is it only for Americans?
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could not hurt...
even though I don't own this device anymore I still filed a complaint. Rooting this device is much easier than the HTC Inspire. I hope they listen.
Good luck with this. You'll need it. No sarcasm intended.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
t0dbld, I read your complaint and don't take my comment as negative but your complaint is full of grammatical errors. The case in point about Samsung keylogging has been debunked. But your example is always a possible scenario. AT&T data capping speeds for all phones but the iPhone is something we could mention as crippling.
I'm 100% in favor of unlocking our phones boot loader.
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/sec/2011/032811sec2.html <-- Samsung false alarm article.
Again, I don't mean any disrespect. I appreciate the developers who help the Android community, especially the Atrix.
Here was my submission:
Motorola makes and sells a device called the Motorola Atrix. They have, in the boot-loader, added a cryptographic signing check that prevents any software not created, and signed by Motorola from executing on the device. I believe this business practice to be monopolistic, and anti-consumer. While modifying the operating system voids any warranty on the device, as a consumer purchasing this device I should have the option to modify, or improve the device in any way I see fit.
In short: Motorola is exhibiting monopolistic business practices by locking the device down and disallowing third party operating system software to be installed.
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t0dbld said:
Finally today i had enough... I filed a formal complaint with the FTC against motorola and all other mobile device manufacturers out lining the cause and effect of these companies selling us devices that we are made to be only users of rather than owners and administrators the devices we purchased. Nothing will change until we make some one step in and set the rules, i am encouraging everyone here on xda to do the same ... here is a link to the example complaint i filed and the link to the appropriate form to be filed
http://t0dbld.blogspot.com/2011/03/my-complaint-to-ftc-on-lock-bootloaders.html
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
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I smell an april fools setup post.... if not.. everyone remember what day tomorrow is.
mafiaboy01 said:
Can I still do this as a Canadian Citizen or is it only for Americans?
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kdoodle said:
t0dbld, I read your complaint and don't take my comment as negative but your complaint is full of grammatical errors. The case in point about Samsung keylogging has been debunked. But your example is always a possible scenario. AT&T data capping speeds for all phones but the iPhone is something we could mention as crippling.
I'm 100% in favor of unlocking our phones boot loader.
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/sec/2011/032811sec2.html <-- Samsung false alarm article.
Again, I don't mean any disrespect. I appreciate the developers who help the Android community, especially the Atrix.
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I replied on the blog but i will reply here as will in case you did not read , that is a blog, i am not concenred with errors or anything there, also that was not my EXACT complaint as i did not want it to just get copy and pasted hence taking away from my formal complaint, while i appreciate your support and interest , i do think your time would have better used to file an actual complaint as per my request , rather than writing me a 2 page comment about mine either way good to have you on board, and make sure yours is well written
You should have let me proof that prior to submission. Other than it being way to long, over technical, and demonstrating piss poor English it did actually make some points! No hard feelings bro
The problem is that corporate America will not read our complaints, they simply don't care about anything but their bottom dollar. The bottom dollar is protected by the boot loader. New features? Go buy our new device!
The way I see it, we have two options.
A.) Petition our government to impose regulations and implement new laws to control these corporations and protect our consumer rights. But wait, doesn't our government make a lot of money off this industry in every aspect? How much tax did you pay when you bought your device? Ever look at the taxes on your phone bill? It's rape any way you cut it. It's not the 'sleeping with your girlfriend while she's passed out drunk' rape. It's more like the 'in the alley, behind a dumpster, while it's raining and dark getting raped by an HIV infected ex-con bum' rape. So my point is, the FTC is a government subsidiary and our taxes pay their salerys. We have established that they enjoy to rape us and we pay them to do it. Keep up the complaints, they just might change their outlook on life. For now, I would say option A can be scratched off the list.
B.) Start a revolution. Unite, gather our firearms, cordinate our forces, and take our country back!
Or someone smarter than I could just crack the damn boot loader... That's all i have for now, time to burn one
Submitted complaint
Moved to general as not android development
tical2k said:
I smell an april fools setup post.... if not.. everyone remember what day tomorrow is.
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ummm are you that dense this is not a joke
thedude420 said:
You should have let me proof that prior to submission. Other than it being way to long, over technical, and demonstrating piss poor English it did actually make some points! No hard feelings bro
The problem is that corporate America will not read our complaints, they simply don't care about anything but their bottom dollar. The bottom dollar is protected by the boot loader. New features? Go buy our new device!
The way I see it, we have two options.
A.) Petition our government to impose regulations and implement new laws to control these corporations and protect our consumer rights. But wait, doesn't our government make a lot of money off this industry in every aspect? How much tax did you pay when you bought your device? Ever look at the taxes on your phone bill? It's rape any way you cut it. It's not the 'sleeping with your girlfriend while she's passed out drunk' rape. It's more like the 'in the alley, behind a dumpster, while it's raining and dark getting raped by an HIV infected ex-con bum' rape. So my point is, the FTC is a government subsidiary and our taxes pay their salerys. We have established that they enjoy to rape us and we pay them to do it. Keep up the complaints, they just might change their outlook on life. For now, I would say option A can be scratched off the list.
B.) Start a revolution. Unite, gather our firearms, cordinate our forces, and take our country back!
Or someone smarter than I could just crack the damn boot loader... That's all i have for now, time to burn one
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OK nice ridiculous rant , for the last time that was not the EXACT complaint, secondly the FTC is the closest government agency that would have anything to do with this so what do you think we are doing, third please mr 420 hippy do something on your own than, to many times i have been given suggestions by pot smoking liberals with all the answers... yet never once seen them step up to the plate, while my self on the other hand has a long documented court history for the things i believed in and stood up for, i am not against any method of trying to draw attention and get results as this is not about the phone in my hand today but the future of the industry, so please try any method you wish but than do it and than give us your lesson about rape and pot smoke and alleys as the rest of us act with actions.... not long drawn out imaginative story's after "burning one" than dont make any real sense or have any relevance
No not dense, just real. Why would THIS make a difference, the community has been *****ing about bootloaders being locked for ages. Just throw another *****ing complaint in the pile, they don't care. Get a lawyer pack that can combat ATT and/or moto. Are you THAT dense to think you can make a difference. Dont get me wrong I like your spirit and you have an ethos, but not enough money to fix it. sorry face reality.
tical2k said:
No not dense, just real. Why would THIS make a difference, the community has been *****ing about bootloaders being locked for ages. Just throw another *****ing complaint in the pile, they don't care. Get a lawyer pack that can combat ATT and/or moto. Are you THAT dense to think you can make a difference. Dont get me wrong I like your spirit and you have an ethos, but not enough money to fix it. sorry face reality.
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your right.... give up and win, why vote either your vote doesnt count so who cares
t0dbld said:
your right.... give up and win, why vote either your vote doesnt count so who cares
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Nice rebuttle. And for the record I vote... right down the middle to maintain chaos, because politics are only good when they don't do anything unless they both parties agree on it. If you dont like the bootloader being locked why buy it? Also why not return it.
tical2k said:
Nice rebuttle. And for the record I vote... right down the middle to maintain chaos, because politics are only good when they don't do anything unless they both parties agree on it. If you dont like the bootloader being locked why buy it? Also why not return it.
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Your missing the point entirely , this is not about my motorola atrix, i could care less and mine will be unlocked sooner than later... this is about the fact that they have no right to make us users on devices that we own, we own it we deserve to have administrative rights as well as the option to load what ever software we want on it... period
Go away, troll
t0dbld said:
Your missing the point entirely , this is not about my motorola atrix, i could care less and mine will be unlocked sooner than later... this is about the fact that they have no right to make us users on devices that we own, we own it we deserve to have administrative rights as well as the option to load what ever software we want on it... period
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I end with a quote from Swimming with Sharks (a great kevin spacey movie btw):
"Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of ****. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
I submitted it.
Everyone please do this it doesn't take any time.
Hello guys,
Recently Motorola canceled ICS update for Atrix, but i'm wondering: did they started the dev and left middle way, or did nothing at all? If they stopped middle way, we might be able to use they kernel (it's what we need right now), and that would be awesome.
Ofc, Motorola won't release them easily. But what if we ask? What if we make a campaign on social networks and Android websites, and make it really loud? I'm sure i saw this happening for other stuffs, so why not our phone?
My idea is pretty simple:
We setup a hotsite with a simple message and users just have to click on the button referent to his social network to share the campaign. On Twitter, we can mention Motorola's profile, to be sure they are hearing us.
I already have the template ready, and it looks kinda like this: http://takemymoneyhbo.com/tweetit.php
I also have a VPS with Nginx + microcache, PHP-FPM and APC ready to go, so it's able to handle a big spikes of traffic (Digg/Reddit effect). What i need right now is the domain and, ofc, the message to be posted on social networks and on the hotsite itself.
We also would need to think about a name for this campaign (the name of the domain). Like i said, server is ready, template is ready, we only need the messages and a domain, since i can't pay for that at the moment.
As an alternative, we could also use this idea to get JB officially, but i think most of us would install a custom ROM anyway.
List of suggested domains so far:
icanhasdrivers.com
icanhasics.com
retakemotoatrix.com
myphonecanhasICS.com
weonlyneedyourkernel.com
updatemymoto.com (the chosen one)
What do you guys think? Worth doing it? Anyone up to pay for the domain? I will setup a donation button, if anyone is up for paying a domain, just donate
EDIT: The name of the campaign will be Update My Moto! The message for the hotsite and how it looks, can be see here: http://i48.tinypic.com/51eb95.png
As soon as we get the domain, i will close this thread and create a official one for the campaign. Let's rock guys!
Obs: sorry for my English.
might work if you also include other way to file a complaint against moto like via BBB. Motorola might not care about us when we complain to them but moto might care about losing the BBB accreditation. So include other methods like that.
Deafcyclist said:
might work if you also include other way to file a complaint against moto like via BBB. Motorola might not care about us when we complain to them but moto might care about losing the BBB accreditation. So include other methods like that.
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You can count me in on making as much noise as we can on the matter.
I think it is worth trying. I doubt we would succeed. But worth trying anyway.
So all you need is a domain? No hosting account?
What about:
icanhasdrivers.com or icanhasics.com
upndwn4par said:
I think it is worth trying. I doubt we would succeed. But worth trying anyway.
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Why you doubt it will succeed? I can try to get it on Gizmodo and lots of other bug websites, since i myself own a big Ubuntu website at Brazil. I think we can make this get pretty big, and Motorola would end up listening.
upndwn4par said:
So all you need is a domain? No hosting account?
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Yes. We need to come up with a good name for the campaign and a good domain. I also need someone to pay for the domain, since with all the servers i already pay and other stuffs, i'm pretty much out of money haha
Oh, we also need a message that cause impact.
upndwn4par said:
What about:
icanhasdrivers.com or icanhasics.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Added to the suggestion list
Deafcyclist said:
might work if you also include other way to file a complaint against moto like via BBB. Motorola might not care about us when we complain to them but moto might care about losing the BBB accreditation. So include other methods like that.
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Click to collapse
What is "BBB"? I'm sorry, don't think i know it. But as long as it have a share-able link, i'm able to add it.
julian_fern said:
Why you doubt it will succeed? I can try to get it on Gizmodo and lots of other bug websites, since i myself own a big Ubuntu website at Brazil. I think we can make this get pretty big, and Motorola would end up listening.
Yes. We need to come up with a good name for the campaign and a good domain. I also need someone to pay for the domain, since with all the servers i already pay and other stuffs, i'm pretty much out of money haha
Oh, we also need a message that cause impact.
Added to the suggestion list
What is "BBB"? I'm sorry, don't think i know it. But as long as it have a share-able link, i'm able to add it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"BBB" Stands for the Better Business Bureau. It's a consumer agency that takes complaints and helps direct it at the appropriate place. They work with the company and consumer to resolve the dispute. They cover businesses ranging from carpet cleaning to food to cell phone companies. Some companies tout their high rating with the BBB, like a report card, so they value it staying high.
How about retakemotoatrix.com or nomoremotofail.com
I kinda like the ring to "RetakeMotoAtrix"
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
Lugaidster said:
How about retakemotoatrix.com or nomoremotofail.com
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we need to gather more moto users (photon, etc)
myphonecanhasICS
icanhasics.com --> the best so far
Vote me in. I have already tweeted with hashtag #motofail
Anything with "icanhas" it's too meme-ish to be taken seriously, IMO.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
I doubt Motofail will care about all the noise.
http://www.change.org/petitions/motorola-mobility-update-my-phone
I'm sick and tired of these corporations/companies walking all over dedicated customers and getting away with it, so you can count me in as well. Even if we don't succeed, I'd be glad to get back at this lying, backstabbing company with some negative publicity.
I don't think it will work because big corporations are stupid. They look at us and think they have only pissed off a few thousand users. They forget that people like us tend to be tech support/advisers for our friends and family.
I agree with jhonnyx that we will need support from other device groups too. I know the Photon got screwed, but what other devices? It would be helpful to post in their forums as well. This should also not be limited to xda. There are many other forums as well. Maybe once we get a little more organized. This will have to be a huge effort to succeed.
This campaign will also have to be clean and catchy. Nothing related to motofail. Motorola will never draw attention or succumb to anything like this.
Why not motoupgwanted... That way it could be used for more then just us?
All you need is domain? Cost what $10 a year, why not set up donation button I'm sure you can get 20 of us to give .50 cents (cost est)
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
I have already submitted the following post in the usual Atrix ICS thread but I thought it would be useful in this tread as well.
"Just wanted to provide another pointer as to why it is possible to take legal actions and possibly criminal prosecution, in countries where it applies, against Google/Motorola. Security fixes, rather the lack of, from GB 2.3.4 to JB 4.0.1. You want to remember the latest security flaw in Android about a crafted web page that can wipe Android phones without a possibility to recover the lost data.
Why Atrix users should be left without the security fixes and how Google will propose a solution?"
Furthermore to what I have said in above I am certain that only a legal campaign will solve this problem, anything else would be waste of energy.
We already have enough valid technical reasons to argue the case but we need members with legal expertise in matters like this. In my opinion launching two legal precedents, one in Europe and the other in USA, would get us to a proper settlement. Please remember this is not really about just Atrix whereas about two corporates that ripped off consumers without a shame in bright day light.
Hey Motorola, just give us the drivers we want, and step away from the Atrix!
Seriously, is that too much to ask?
Count me in.
However, I also don't believe Moto will deliver. But if we can make some bad publicity to them, let's do it. They deserve it.
And...
Fishmoose said:
Anything with "icanhas" it's too meme-ish to be taken seriously, IMO.
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... I agree.
Im in and also i wrote in the photon forum.
Sent from my MB860 using xda app-developers app
source link
For those that don't want to access the above link, here is the text:
AT&T is on the receiving end of a $10 million payout each year from the CIA in exchange for providing phone records to help with overseas counterterrorism investigations. It’s a program that the wireless provider voluntarily agrees to meaning there’s no court order involved according to a report from the New York Times.
The publication claims the CIA supplies AT&T with the phone numbers of suspected terrorists. From here, the wireless provider is able to comb their database for call records attached to a given number. These records include valuable information such as the length and date of phone calls. In the event that a call is placed to or from an American number and involved an international caller, the CIA reportedly asks AT&T to mask the identity of the US-based number for legal reasons.
In case you were wondering, the arrangement is said to be different from the tactics the NSA uses to collect phone records although they likely duplicate some of their programs. It appears to have been started sometime before 2010, was put on hold at some point then reinitiated once again.
Naturally, neither AT&T nor the CIA would confirm the existence of the partnership. An anonymous intelligence official, however, believes it makes sense for such a program to be in place. The source said the need to act without delay is often best met when the CIA has developed its own capabilities to lawfully acquire necessary foreign intelligence information.
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lmike6453 said:
source link
For those that don't want to access the above link, here is the text:
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At least they get money for it when we all know CIA has other means of getting those data logs anyways...
Not a surprising tactic. Seriously if a terrorist is still conducting activities on a cellular network... just turn yourself in now.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using xda app-developers app
OH NO!!!!!! NOW THEY KNOW ABOUT THE TIME I TOLD MY FRIEND I WAS TAKING A DUMP!!!!!!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Anthonok said:
OH NO!!!!!! NOW THEY KNOW ABOUT THE TIME I TOLD MY FRIEND I WAS TAKING A DUMP!!!!!!
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That's not the sort of information they can glean from metadata (unless your friend specializes in counseling people on that topic).
Gary02468 said:
That's not the sort of information they can glean from metadata (unless your friend specializes in counseling people on that topic).
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I know. But my point is I don't care. Also I'm just really tired of hearing people complain about losing their privacy and it being stolen from them...meanwhile they sit there and use Facebook and other social media...haha
Anthonok said:
I know. But my point is I don't care.
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But people who want to protect their own privacy don't care that you don't care. People who take seriously the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution, and its requirement to have probable cause and a detailed warrant before conducting a search, also don't care that you don't care. People who have studied history carefully enough to know what abuses arise in the absence of these protections don't care that you don't care.
Also I'm just really tired of hearing people complain about losing their privacy and it being stolen from them...meanwhile they sit there and use Facebook and other social media...
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There's no inconsistency between willingly revealing some information--whether to your friends or to the public--while still wanting NOT to reveal OTHER information publicly.
Gary02468 said:
But people who want to protect their own privacy don't care that you don't care. People who take seriously the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution, and its requirement to have probable cause and a detailed warrant before conducting a search, also don't care that you don't care. People who have studied history carefully enough to know what abuses arise in the absence of these protections don't care that you don't care.
There's no inconsistency between willingly revealing some information--whether to your friends or to the public--while still wanting NOT to reveal OTHER information publicly.
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And I don't care that they don't care. People act like this kind of thing is new. Its been around forever. Anyone who thinks its something that's never happened in the past is blind. I understand the whole privacy thing. I get it. But I look at it like this, I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't care who sees what I do or say or who I call. I would rather my every move be monitored as long as it has the possibility of some terrorist being caught preemptively.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Anthonok said:
People act like this kind of thing is new. Its been around forever.
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False. Instead of addressing what people are actually saying, you're pretending that they're saying something they never did.
Warrantless searching isn't new. It's just illegal, immoral, and more dangerous that what it supposedly protects us from.
However, the scale on which spying is being conducted now--the sheer amount of data being collected from hundreds of millions of citizens--is indeed unprecedented. We know that simply because the technology to collect and store that much data did not exist until fairly recently.
I'm not doing anything wrong so I don't care who sees what I do or say or who I call.
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Anyone who says that there's no need for privacy unless you're doing something "wrong" is woefully ignorant not only of history, but of basic human interaction.
Gary02468 said:
False. Instead of addressing what people are actually saying, you're pretending that they're saying something they never did.
Warrantless searching isn't new. It's just illegal, immoral, and more dangerous that what it supposedly protects us from.
However, the scale on which spying is being conducted now--the sheer amount of data being collected from hundreds of millions of citizens--is indeed unprecedented. We know that simply because the technology to collect and store that much data did not exist until fairly recently.
Anyone who says that there's no need for privacy unless you're doing something "wrong" is woefully ignorant not only of history, but of basic human interaction.
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Yeah. Sure. Cool.
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Why is this useless, off-topic thread still open!?
khaytsus said:
Why is this useless, off-topic thread still open!?
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(1) It pertains to the AT&T Note 3. (It also pertains to other AT&T phones, but so do many of the AT&T topics discussed here.)
(2) The thread was already dormant until you bumped it just now.
This sort of stuff surely has to have been happening for a while, it's not like they get anything useful out of civilians anyways.
The only terrorists they will catch are the ones that the CIA is training funding and helping conduct and carry out their plan. The CIA has been running alqueda since the start of it. The name it self was a US government database that bin Laden liked and used the name. Every major dictator in history the US has put in power funded and then took them out. It's Hegelian Dialectic=Problem – Reaction – Solution.
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AT&T's going to cough up whatever they're subpoenaed to. Bully for them for extracting a fee for it.
BarryH_GEG said:
AT&T's going to cough up whatever they're subpoenaed to. Bully for them for extracting a fee for it.
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You're just making that up. The people involved have acknowledged that there is no subpoena, and that acknowledgement has been widely reported.
Gary02468 said:
You're just making that up. The people involved have acknowledged that there is no subpoena, and that acknowledgement has been widely reported.
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So? With all that's come to light post-Snowden does this surprise you? The other carriers could be doing something similar and it's just not been made known yet. Post-9/11 the world's a sinister place with both the good guys and bad guys trying to outmaneuver each other with us innocents caught in the middle. If this freaks people out move to another carrier. I guess I operate under the naive assumption that my data being scoured isn't a big deal because I'm not doing anything wrong. My life in data-form would probably be considered pretty boring by those reading it.
Why does everyone think that it's Ok just because they are not doing anything wrong? The founding fathers put the constitution together to protect us from things like this. Lately people are so for giving up their rights all in the name of keeping them "safe" Ben Franklin said " those who will give up liberty for security shall have neither". There are a lot of people who need to wake up to the tyranny that is going on around them before it's to late. The only time people start to care is when it effects them by that time they are a day late and a dollar short. This is a tyrannical regimen we are dealing with and it will only get worse until we stop allowing it to continue just because "I'm not doing anything wrong so why should I care". We either all need to stand up for our rights or we will all fall together.
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boxerlover02 said:
Ben Franklin said " those who will give up liberty for security shall have neither".
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Here's a hint to tell if you're totally off topic for a tech forum - when your posts contain quotes from dead presidents. Fascinating point of view; for Reddit.
I agree I went off topic. But it burns me up that everyone always says "well I have nothing to hide so I don't care". Or there is nothing we can do about it so why should I care... Just think if the men who fought for this country to become a country had that same attitude. There would be no USA. Again sorry for the rant, but we need to hang together or fall separate.
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