Hello!
Just curious if there is an issue with using my new Nexus 10 2A charger with other phones, such as my HTC Sensation or Blackberry Torch?
The Sensation uses a 1A charger, but I assume the phones are smart enough to only draw the current necessary, so they won't be damaged by drawing too much?
I'd like to just use the Nexus 10 charger and not have to carry other ones.
yes it is fine
Cool thanks
EniGmA1987 said:
yes it is fine
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I heard though that
*first it creates unnecessary heat because the current drawn by circuitry on lower amperage device has to be dissipated as heat
*second, this is less science/engineering but someone said that the specific pins are created by companies and the pins themselves can vary in terms of impedance, thus change the overall circuitry of the device in the long run
*third Li-Ion can pull more current than the default charger and it tends to do so to charge faster, albeit at the cost of the battery overall life deteriorates because higher charging rates also leads to faster breakdown of cells?
I wish I had sources, but this is what I pulled off the Internet when I was younger... can you please assist and advise? Would greatly appreciate (even if we start new thread from this
nutnub said:
I heard though that
*first it creates unnecessary heat because the current drawn by circuitry on lower amperage device has to be dissipated as heat
*second, this is less science/engineering but someone said that the specific pins are created by companies and the pins themselves can vary in terms of impedance, thus change the overall circuitry of the device in the long run
*third Li-Ion can pull more current than the default charger and it tends to do so to charge faster, albeit at the cost of the battery overall life deteriorates because higher charging rates also leads to faster breakdown of cells?
I wish I had sources, but this is what I pulled off the Internet when I was younger... can you please assist and advise? Would greatly appreciate (even if we start new thread from this
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Wish I knew for sure too. REally I don't care a lot about my HTC Sensation as I plan on getting a Nexus 4 LTE when it eventually comes out. Hopefully those come with 2A chargers!
Sure I could get a Nexus 4 and use LTE right now on Bell, but I'd rather wait for an official one.
nutnub said:
I heard though that
*first it creates unnecessary heat because the current drawn by circuitry on lower amperage device has to be dissipated as heat
*second, this is less science/engineering but someone said that the specific pins are created by companies and the pins themselves can vary in terms of impedance, thus change the overall circuitry of the device in the long run
*third Li-Ion can pull more current than the default charger and it tends to do so to charge faster, albeit at the cost of the battery overall life deteriorates because higher charging rates also leads to faster breakdown of cells?
I wish I had sources, but this is what I pulled off the Internet when I was younger... can you please assist and advise? Would greatly appreciate (even if we start new thread from this
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Everybody seems to misunderstand LiPo charging, as it is different than previous battery technologies
For general LiPo Information, you should look here. Charging information is about halfway down the page
http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-lipo-batteries.html
Ill quote the important part:
Selecting the correct charge current is also critical when charging RC LiPo battery packs. The golden rule here use to be "never charge a LiPo or LiIon pack greater than 1 times its capacity (1C)."
For example a 2000 mAh pack, would be charged at a maximum charge current of 2000 mA or 2.0 amps. Never higher or the life of the pack would be greatly reduced. If you choose a charge rate significantly higher than the 1C value, the battery will heat up and could swell, vent, or catch fire.
Times are a changing...
Most LiPo experts now feel however you can safely charge at a 2C or even 3C rate on quality packs that have a discharge rating of at least 20C or more safely and low internal resistances, with little effect on the overall life expectancy of the pack as long as you have a good charger with a good balancing system. There are more and more LiPo packs showing up stating 2C and 3C charge rates, with even a couple manufactures indicating 5C rates. The day of the 10 minute charge is here (assuming you have a high power charger and power source capable of delivering that many watts and amps).
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Pretty much all phones are right around 2000mAh capacity now days so even going by the "old" golden charging rule a 2A charger would be safe to use. My Galaxy Nexus came with (I think) a 1A charger, but ever since I got my tablet shortly thereafter I have just used the tablets 2A charger for both devices and never once had an issue. It has been 8 months now of using the 2A charger on my phone. Idle life can still reach a little over 3 days on a single charge and I still get one of the best screen on time's of most people I know around the forums. So yes from personal experience a 2A tablet charger is completely fine to use on a phone.
Charging circuitry is built into the device, not the "charger"
Nothing to worry about
EniGmA1987 said:
Ill quote the important part:
Pretty much all phones are right around 2000mAh capacity now days so even going by the "old" golden charging rule a 2A charger would be safe to use. My Galaxy Nexus came with 9I think) a 1A charger, but ever since I got my tablet shortly thereafter I have just used the tablets 2A charger for both devices and never once had an issue. It has been 8 months now of using the 2A charger on my phone. Idle life can still reach a little over 3 days on a single charge and I still get one of the best screen on time's of most people I know around the forums. So yes from personal experience a 2A tablet charger is completely fine to use on a phone.
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Is it safe to assume that all chargers come default at 1C charging for their device? Because if that's the case, I figure most electronics we own can just be replaced with 10w chargers (which would make life much more convenient).
This is slightly related/unrelated, but how do you know whether a charger is "high quality" or will only provide "constant current / constant voltage"? It seems strange to me that these days, you can't find the circuitry of many devices we own publicly available so you can't check if the design is good (let alone how they chose the components in their design?). Do you (and other veterans) have any thoughts on this?
Thanks for teaching me lots!
-newb, happily reading away
I bought one of those 2amp double chargers from a seller on Amazon. It wasn't really cheap either (in cost anyway- I spent a bit more hoping it would be higher quality). After plugging in my MotoRAZR and the wife's lumia the charger popped and some plastic from the housing of the charger flew across the room! Thankfully both phones were fine.
I wondered whether both phones tried to pull more than the charger could handle and the charger had poor quality circuitry.
Since then, I've only ever bought branded official replacement chargers (Motorola, Samsung etc). I'd happily mix and match them to the phones but I'd be wary of buying a no name Chinese jobby from Ebay or Amazon marketplace.
Sent from my XT910 using xda premium
nutnub said:
Is it safe to assume that all chargers come default at 1C charging for their device? Because if that's the case, I figure most electronics we own can just be replaced with 10w chargers (which would make life much more convenient).
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Most batteries can discharge a lot faster than they can recharge, but with LiPo, the difference is getting smaller.
Batteries used to need trickle charging as if you charge fast they would get hot, which causes the chemicals inside to expand(think like a fizzy drink, pour it fast and it will overflow) causing the battery to burst, exposing nasty chemicals.
New technology means the charger can accurately monitor how fast we fill the battery, without letting it get too hot, and also the way it is filled(as with the fizzy drink, pour down the side of a glass rather than straight to the bottom and you will fill the glass faster, with less chance of it over-spilling)
This is slightly related/unrelated, but how do you know whether a charger is "high quality" or will only provide "constant current / constant voltage"? It seems strange to me that these days, you can't find the circuitry of many devices we own publicly available so you can't check if the design is good (let alone how they chose the components in their design?). Do you (and other veterans) have any thoughts on this?
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Unfortunately, industry is full of products made to a budget, usually by using cheaper components/designs(the charger for the ASUS TF101 was renowned for failing), so there is no foolproof way of determining 'quality' apart from word of mouth, looking at quantities sold, feedback in reviews/forums.
Basically, it boils down to 'consumer testing'
---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------
Here's a bit more related information found buried deep in documents here: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs
The USB2.0 specifications for current output say the maximum current is limited to 1.8A, while USB3.0 has a maximum current limit of 5A
Hopefully, USB3.0 will quickly become a new standard for portable devices.
more questions!
First of all, let me please thank you for responding and being so thorough with your answers! There is so much information out there, and in my 22 years of existence, I cannot for the life of me sort through the sheer amount of data. I do greatly enjoy reading every little thing that is posted, especially in this thread because I think it's super important to understand the electronics that we interact with.
sonicfishcake said:
I bought one of those 2amp double chargers from a seller on Amazon. It wasn't really cheap either (in cost anyway- I spent a bit more hoping it would be higher quality). After plugging in my MotoRAZR and the wife's lumia the charger popped and some plastic from the housing of the charger flew across the room! Thankfully both phones were fine.
I wondered whether both phones tried to pull more than the charger could handle and the charger had poor quality circuitry.
Since then, I've only ever bought branded official replacement chargers (Motorola, Samsung etc). I'd happily mix and match them to the phones but I'd be wary of buying a no name Chinese jobby from Ebay or Amazon marketplace.
Sent from my XT910 using xda premium
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My concern with this is that if Motorola or Samsung does put out a product less than optimal, would we all know? Another way of asking this is how do we know that Apple/Motorola/Samsung/Lenovo does produce superior products and it's not merely a matter of advertisement or brand image? Do you think there is a way to know, as a consumer, that even third party products are becoming more competitive, given that smaller companies have much harder time advertising and building a name/brand for themselves? (if you can't tell, I am rooting for the little guys because I may one day work for the little guys)
skally said:
Most batteries can discharge a lot faster than they can recharge, but with LiPo, the difference is getting smaller.
Batteries used to need trickle charging as if you charge fast they would get hot, which causes the chemicals inside to expand(think like a fizzy drink, pour it fast and it will overflow) causing the battery to burst, exposing nasty chemicals.
New technology means the charger can accurately monitor how fast we fill the battery, without letting it get too hot, and also the way it is filled(as with the fizzy drink, pour down the side of a glass rather than straight to the bottom and you will fill the glass faster, with less chance of it over-spilling)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for clarifying for us. Would you happen to know if there are specifics to recharge specs, short of finding me published papers on the technology? What you said is definitely what I've been reading from the Internet and I do trust you, just would help me have greater peace of mind with my nice and shiny devices,,,
skally said:
...
Unfortunately, industry is full of products made to a budget, usually by using cheaper components/designs(the charger for the ASUS TF101 was renowned for failing), so there is no foolproof way of determining 'quality' apart from word of mouth, looking at quantities sold, feedback in reviews/forums.
Basically, it boils down to 'consumer testing'
---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------
Here's a bit more related information found buried deep in documents here: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs
The USB2.0 specifications for current output say the maximum current is limited to 1.8A, while USB3.0 has a maximum current limit of 5A
Hopefully, USB3.0 will quickly become a new standard for portable devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A quick question, just because USB3.0 should allow up to 25W, that doesn't mean that it's the standard for devices, does it? As in Nexus 10 probably can only draw 10W, even if my computer (which although stated is USB3.0) may not have the circuitry behind it to allow for such a draw? I'm a little iffy on the whole implementation of USB standards. Because if USB2.0 has draw of up to 9W, I haven't seen this from my laptop or any devices claiming to have USB2.0 ports,,,
but then again, I may be paranoid. Just trying to line up my experience with theory!
Thank you all for so much support and enthusiasm. Any chance we'll see this on a top thread somewhere?
nutnub said:
A quick question, just because USB3.0 should allow up to 25W, that doesn't mean that it's the standard for devices, does it? As in Nexus 10 probably can only draw 10W, even if my computer (which although stated is USB3.0) may not have the circuitry behind it to allow for such a draw? I'm a little iffy on the whole implementation of USB standards. Because if USB2.0 has draw of up to 9W, I haven't seen this from my laptop or any devices claiming to have USB2.0 ports,,,
but then again, I may be paranoid. Just trying to line up my experience with theory!
Thank you all for so much support and enthusiasm. Any chance we'll see this on a top thread somewhere?
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If the Nexus kernel says the limit is 2A then that's it. It cant use more power.
Have you seen the internal USB 3.0 cable?
It's at least twice as thick as a USB 2.0 cable, I got a new chassi for my computer last week, with a couple 2.0 and a 3.0 USB front port.
And if your motherboard's built for USB 3.0, I'm pretty sure it can take the current. Otherwise there would be no meaning of adding 3.0 support.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda app-developers app
If something is listed as a USB3 port, it must be up to USB3 certifications. Otherwise the manufacturer of the device is liable for a huge lawsuit if issues arise. If something says USB3 that doesnt mean it IS drawing 25w though, just that the port is capable of having 25w pulled through it over the USB connector. Same with USB2 and its 9w limit on the spec. Also, plugging a tablet such as this into a computer's USB3 port does not mean it will charge faster or get faster data transfers, since the cable being used and the device are still of the older specification.
nutnub said:
Thank you for clarifying for us. Would you happen to know if there are specifics to recharge specs, short of finding me published papers on the technology? What you said is definitely what I've been reading from the Internet and I do trust you, just would help me have greater peace of mind with my nice and shiny devices,,,
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Click to collapse
Have a look here for info on the recharging process for Lithium based cells.
https://sites.google.com/site/tjinguytech/charging-how-tos/the-charging-process
It is worth noting the level of precautions taken while charging the cells aggressively. You really don't need a bucket of sand on standby when you plug your phone in to it's charger
nutnub said:
A quick question, just because USB3.0 should allow up to 25W, that doesn't mean that it's the standard for devices, does it? As in Nexus 10 probably can only draw 10W, even if my computer (which although stated is USB3.0) may not have the circuitry behind it to allow for such a draw? I'm a little iffy on the whole implementation of USB standards. Because if USB2.0 has draw of up to 9W, I haven't seen this from my laptop or any devices claiming to have USB2.0 ports,,,
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Click to collapse
There are actually 2 different current limits for each USB specification: USB2.0 has 0.5A and 1.8A, while USB3.0 has 1.5A and 5.0A
The lower of the current limits is what I would expect to get from a USB port on a computer, while the higher one I would expect to get from a dedicated charger.
I believe the higher current specification was added purely for charging mobile devices, as it is only achieved by adding a resistance across D+ and D-, removing the data transmission capabilities of the port. I don't know if that's practical, or possible with a computer USB port.
I do remember seeing motherboards with ports specifically designed for fast charging, but I haven't got any info on them as yet.
There are also kernels which enable "fast charging" on a PC. Basically it removes the data connection in software and treats any USB connection as if it were plugged into AC. You can charge just as fast on a computer as you can on a wall charger when this feature is enabled in the kernel.
I am using the N10 charger for my Note 2 and it charges bloody fast using this charger. Charging is noticeably faster on Note 2 than the stock 1A charger that came with the Note.
Battery is not getting warm and battery temps are similar to those on 1A charger. Basically its cutting the charging time in almost half.
Agreed. Note 2 charger is awesome. Bought a powergen 3.1 amp car charger for the note 2 also after watching videos and reading up on proper car chargers for the phone. Guess I can use it for my nexus 10 too.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using xda premium
I own RC cars with lipo batteries and rule of thumb is total mah divide by 1000 = the Max amp charger you can use. So a 2100mah battery can be charged with a 2.1A charger.
On that note I charge my Samsung s3 that has a 2100mah battery with a 2.1A car charger without any issue.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
I used the N10's charger to charge my iPod Nano 3rd gen, no problem
Hey guys, while this information may be redundant to some, this is my first 2A charging phone having come from a GS2. A few note's i thought i'd share about fully utilizing the maximum charging of this phone. Using Elixer app, i was able to determine a few tips when charging
CABLE LENGTH MATTERS
I went out and bought some nice long monoprice cables, 10' and 15', i hated the feeling of being sucked to the nearest wall when you wanted to charge and use your phone. Plugged it into my nice new S4 wall port with a 10' cable, and checked the amperage being sucked in, to my surprise it was no where near the 1900mA max i should be getting. Went to the 15', even lower current (duh, for those who weren't able to put that together), went back to my 6' cable, boom, back up to 1900mA.
TLDR: 6' max for maximum charging
PAY ATTENTION TO 3rd PARTY SPECS
often times these specs are misleading on amazon and such. Often times you will see a 2A car charger with two ports! Awesome, but sadly each port is usually rated for 1A each. This will not be enough to output a full 1.9A (1900mA) for your device. You need to look for 3.1A rated two port items (2.1A and 1A port), or 2/2.1A output for single port chargers, or for true dual charging, a 4.2A rated with each port rated for 2.1A. They do exist.
Also, pay attention to whether the device is iPAD (or any dumb iDevice) certified or marketed to the iCommunitiy. Often times even though the dual port chargers with the 2.1 and a 1 amp port, the 2.1 amp port does NOT have the correct data ports shorted out. What this means is how the phone detects the power source. When you hook your phone up to a computer, there are channels in the USB cable that tell the phone it will be using data, this then limits the amount of power it will draw. The iPAD chargers are set up this way where the data ports are not shorted out, so your phone will not suck the full amount of power. To bypass this, you either need 'CHARGING ONLY' USB cables, which short out this channel for you, or you need to mod the charger with some light soldering. Often times i find this iPAD issue on the ones rated for 2.1A, the 2A chargers generally do not have this issue (just a generalization on the marketing of the chargers, not a fact)
do some reading on the spec's before you blast the product, i hate it when people bash it when they buy the wrong thing and it's their own fault for not taking the time to research it. And if it's not clear, don't buy it!
Ok, that's all i have for now, hopefully this helped some people out there. make sure you do your reading before you write up posts about your phone charging slow, or bash a product you bought because you didnt understand what it was truly designed for.
I don't see a charger from evga on newegg or on their site. Third party suggestions welcome if necessary. Thanks in advance.
KingPrincess said:
I don't see a charger from evga on newegg or on their site. Third party suggestions welcome if necessary. Thanks in advance.
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My factory charger is rated at 2 amps @ 5V so any charger with those specs should work. I use my Amazon 2A charger without any problems as well as the 2A port on my Ravpower portable battery pack.
TLDR: You get what you pay for. Any 5V charger will charge the device, you do not need a specific "Tegra Note Charger". The larger the current rating the quicker the device will charge. If the psu does not have a USB port in which you can plug in a USB>MicroUSB cable, ensure that the psu has a microUSB plug attached.
There are two main considerations though besides this, first is brand/quality, the second is the charge current available.
Brand/quality - Not all chargers are made equal. Most nowadays are switchmode but component quality and design will vary greatly between chargers of different brands. Whilst the basic buck design that most manufacturers will use is efficient, there is a lot of transient noise introduced as well as voltage ripple depending on the design and components used. The funny thing is that the difference between a "good" psu and a "bad" psu is cents in the dollar but many manufacturers will choose to save those cents. The sense behind it? Most consumers are completely ignorant.
Charge Current - There are two main differences you will see between a 500mA or 2A charger. The first is charge time - if the psu is capable of supplying a higher charge current and the device is capable of drawing that larger charge current then your device will charge quicker. Thing is though, the USB standard requires negotiation to be made between the psu and the device for charge currents larger than 500mA. If you buy a cheap psu that is capable of 2A but does not have the negotiation IC, you will never charge more than 500mA. Once again, the difference between having this IC and not is cents in the dollar.
I just bought some US->Euro AC-adapters so i can use the original charger. A new charger that has decent quality would cost at least 15$ or more, since 2 ampere outputs are rather uncommon (most phones-chargers ones only have 1 ampere).
And 1 ampere is not quite enough to charge the TN7 an use it at the same time (currently using a 1A-charger).
But even with those adapter you don't want the cheapest. Or at least read some comments on amazon before buying. There are a lot of really cheap ones.
I got these ones from amazon and i really hope they're the better ones ...
It was disappointing to find that the new Nexus devices don't support Qualcomm's Quick Charge 2.0. I would have thought after all of the demand, especially with the Nexus 5 that Google would make it a requirement. So I saw this article on Droid-life and thought I should share as a general PSA to everyone. They did tests and found that the only quick/rapid charger that can charger nearly as well as the more pricey stock charger is Tronsmart's Type C car charger.
Unfortunately I can't post as links as I've been a lurker for too long and not enough posts, but they have it over at droid-life if you want to check it out. Someone could probably even comment it for me.
http://www.droid-life.com/2015/10/19/nexus-6p-nexus-5x-quick-charge/
Except it charges at about half the speed of the dedicated 15W/3A USB-C chargers.
I bought one of those tronsomart car chargers last week. Seemed like an adequate charger until I can get a suitable one that can supply 3A. The fact that it had a USB port so my wife can plug her iPhone into it sealed the deal. It's definitely going to be better for me than the car chargers we have now, that's for sure.
Get this. I've had 2 of them for a year or so and they charge my N6 faster than any QC2 charger I have. No usb c, so if you really want that you are SOL but I don't think that it will matter
MPOW 6.0Amps 30W Dual Rapid USB Port Car Charger with Xsmart Technology for Smartphone https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PNW4AFG/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_wh4jwbW5G4TB4
Sent from my SM-N900T using XDA Free mobile app
Except it charges at about half the speed of the dedicated 15W/3A USB-C chargers.
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I must be missing something? Down the bottom at Update 3 it says that the Tronsmart was almost equal to the stock charger and one of the tests has the stock at 2642mA and Tronsmart at 2511mA.