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I just took delivery of my SGS2 yesterday, and I gotta say I absolutely love this phone. Coming from an LG eXpo with WinMo 6.5 and never having used Android, it doesn't even feel like a phone. Plus with all the easy integration with my Google accounts, I've never had a smoother transition to a new device before. All this makes it all the more difficult for me to have to send it back...
I'm not sure if anyone else has encountered this problem, but it looks like my phone came pre-packaged with burn in or something in the form of a dark circle near the upper right side of my screen. I've attached some photos of what it looks like.
I noticed this abnormality in the first 10 minutes or so of using the phone while looking at some photos on my Picasa account. I almost feel like this phone could have been a refurb unit, or the screen was reused or something. In fact, there appears to be more substantial burn in than I can photograph, as there are several other places where I can see strange distortions. Most, if not all, only show up when the brightness is less than 100%. I'd thought maybe it was some widget that caused the burn in, but I haven't been able to figure out which one it could be.
Anywho, I've already arranged an RMA thru Expansys-USA, and they did so without even asking any questions after my email with photos of the problem. So far I've received amazing support from Expansys-USA and definitely recommend them. Also going to see if I can request a replacement sent before I send back this one so I won't be without a phone during the shipping time, something they mention is possible in the RMA email (though they do charge you for it, to be refunded once they get the defective unit back and inspect it).
Would be interesting to see if anyone else has this problem. If there's already another post on this subject, sorry about this new one... didn't see any when I searched tho.
I can see the same thing on mine if I put it on the lowest brightness setting and display a grey image. Nowhere near as pronounced as on yours though, have to really really look for it, so can't be arsed to do anything about it.
Interesting that it's a perfect circle though, could it be just above the CPU or something?
Nope, haven't got that circle on mine at all.
Maybe an assembly worker lost their wedding ring, lol...
You'll be fine, it's an RMA for sure!
Defo a faulty phone
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App
I believe that mark is from the vacuum suction cup on the assembly line from the automated machine that handles positioning the display component. It technically should disappear over time, but I don't know how long.
I don't think it's the CPU, though to be honest I'm not sure where it is under the screen. There is that odd gold-colored sensor or whatever under that area, I think.
If it's a wedding ring, maybe this phone's worth more than the sticker price! haha
Vacuum cup huh... that's pretty bad if it's damaging the screen while doing that. I don't want to wait and see if it will disappear. If I do wait and it doesn't go away I'll be out $725 on a phone with a screen that'll constantly bug me.
Kinda funny, as I was looking at the photos I attached, I saw two rings... one in the photo, and the real one. Startled me when I first saw it.
I didnt have the same problem as you but i had line banding or something on my one.. i had to replace it 4 times then noticed it overheated+smell coming from it.. so i just returned it and got my money back.
Just be aware that you might get another faulty phone.. If i was you i would wait till it comes out in the US.
That sucks, and it's not good that other people are having some issues as well. Good to hear that Expansys is honoring their agreements though
This is why I don't import anymore
RogerPodacter said:
I believe that mark is from the vacuum suction cup on the assembly line from the automated machine that handles positioning the display component. It technically should disappear over time, but I don't know how long.
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Could well be spot on. I don't know if I'm imagining this, but I'm having more and more trouble seeing this ring on my display heh (had the phone for 9 days now).
RedBlueGreen said:
I didnt have the same problem as you but i had line banding or something on my one.. i had to replace it 4 times then noticed it overheated+smell coming from it.. so i just returned it and got my money back.
Just be aware that you might get another faulty phone.. If i was you i would wait till it comes out in the US.
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Click to collapse
Man, that's really unlucky! Knock on wood, I hope I don't get another bad one. However I'm not sure waiting will do me much good. History has shown me that branded devices tend to have a lot of crap on them and lack certain features at times, and I don't have as much time as I used to to keep up with the scene to make the phone operate better all the time. Also, I'm contract-free with unlimited data on AT&T, and I don't like being locked into contracts. This isn't my first non-US phone, though. I'm happy to pay the extra money so long as it means I don't have to sign a contract.
drleospaceman said:
This is why I don't import anymore
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Click to collapse
From the Expansys-USA thread, sounds like they'll ship the phone back to the UK to have it serviced for you if it ever goes bad. This doesn't sound uncommon, either, as I've had a friend here ship his JP Xbox 360 back to Japan to have it serviced (with a another friend's JP address), and another friend in Japan had his laptop sent back here to have it serviced. Also, there's always the chance a non-import one will be bad, too. Luck of the draw, I guess, and perhaps early-adopter woes. lol
Got my replacement on Saturday, been playing with it ever since to see if I could find any further problems. Definitely no circle this time around, and some of the vertical banding I saw on my old phone in the notification screen is gone, but now has some very slight horizontal banding. Not a deal-breaker tho, so this one's staying with me. Also, hard to tell but I think the yellow/dark left screen problem is present, but so slight I can barely detect it if it's there and not a trick of the eye.
Gotta thank Expansys-USA for their great customer service. I'll definitely order from them again.
-Tj- said:
I just took delivery of my SGS2 yesterday, and I gotta say I absolutely love this phone. Coming from an LG eXpo with WinMo 6.5 and never having used Android, it doesn't even feel like a phone. Plus with all the easy integration with my Google accounts, I've never had a smoother transition to a new device before. All this makes it all the more difficult for me to have to send it back...
I'm not sure if anyone else has encountered this problem, but it looks like my phone came pre-packaged with burn in or something in the form of a dark circle near the upper right side of my screen. I've attached some photos of what it looks like.
I noticed this abnormality in the first 10 minutes or so of using the phone while looking at some photos on my Picasa account. I almost feel like this phone could have been a refurb unit, or the screen was reused or something. In fact, there appears to be more substantial burn in than I can photograph, as there are several other places where I can see strange distortions. Most, if not all, only show up when the brightness is less than 100%. I'd thought maybe it was some widget that caused the burn in, but I haven't been able to figure out which one it could be.
Anywho, I've already arranged an RMA thru Expansys-USA, and they did so without even asking any questions after my email with photos of the problem. So far I've received amazing support from Expansys-USA and definitely recommend them. Also going to see if I can request a replacement sent before I send back this one so I won't be without a phone during the shipping time, something they mention is possible in the RMA email (though they do charge you for it, to be refunded once they get the defective unit back and inspect it).
Would be interesting to see if anyone else has this problem. If there's already another post on this subject, sorry about this new one... didn't see any when I searched tho.
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I too have this issue at the bottom left of my screen, But i donno how to go about it, should i go ahead and ask for a replacement?? what did u do
Hardly noticable though
Tj,
I too have this issue at the bottom left of my screen, But i donno how to go about it, should i go ahead and ask for a replacement?? what did u do
Hardly noticable though
I would have it exchanged for another if you can. I had mine exchanged, but since I went with the cheap option the whole ordeal took almost a month (slow shipping). My replacement doesn't have a defect, but it's possible I have the yellow tint problem others have been reporting. I don't see it tho, and if it's there it doesn't bother me.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App
Got my SGSII yesterday only to realize that there is a circle on the downleft of screen. It's very annoying. Went to Telenor today but they had no phones left. Only thing to do now is wait 4 weeks for a new one.
Any idé on what this is? Have you checked your own ones?
imgur.com/a/pLZC5#3guAm
More people have this. I don't know if it went away with anyone? Some say it should go away and the production process causing it.
I see you also have the 1/3 yellowish/darker screen. I am wondering if there is someone who doesn't have this.
Sorry didn't want you to focuss on it, guess you didn't saw yet. but a lot have this(if not everybody).
r_a_c said:
More people have this. I don't know if it went away with anyone? Some say it should go away and the production process causing it.
I see you also have the 1/3 yellowish/darker screen. I am wondering if there is someone who doesn't have this.
Sorry didn't want you to focuss on it, guess you didn't saw yet. but a lot have this(if not everybody).
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Click to collapse
Haha now when you say it. I was so blind cause of that circle that I didn't notice the yellow/dark thing! Haha!
Do you have a link to any other source that say that they have gotten rid of the circle thing? I searched alot before posting but couldn't find anythin.
jedijens said:
Got my SGSII yesterday only to realize that there is a circle on the downleft of screen. It's very annoying. Went to Telenor today but they had no phones left. Only thing to do now is wait 4 weeks for a new one.
Any idé on what this is? Have you checked your own ones?
imgur.com/a/pLZC5#3guAm
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wow almost looks like you kept your phone in your pocket with some coin for too long
dial *#0*# to see the menu for individual color display, or use some app like Dead Pixel Detect , to do more tests.
lol it's funny
Dont have any problems with my screen. Tried setting higher and lower brightness on different background and saw nothing. Are display problems really that common?
Jonzza said:
Dont have any problems with my screen. Tried setting higher and lower brightness on different background and saw nothing. Are display problems really that common?
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So no Yellow on the left side on grey? No vertical lines of white on grey background?
No blue coating when tilting the phone?
Take a picture i will look.
ams84 said:
lol it's funny
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Click to collapse
Funny like a face plant, as long as it's someone else.
I wouldn't be amused having to wait 4 weeks to get that fixed.
imgur.com/a/xdEvR
I took some more pictures on different backgrounds and it seems like it is only visible on grey. Ar almost.
Only thing to do is send it in?
this phone has so many faults.
all you can do is send it back and get another one... and hope that there isnt something wrong with that.
Am I lucky? My one has no problem. Did you do special things? Or the circle point was pressed? I am worry about possible problem on my sgs2.
topambire said:
Am I lucky? My one has no problem.
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Click to collapse
Give me 10 minutes with your phone and I'll find you one.
topambire said:
Am I lucky? My one has no problem. Did you do special things? Or the circle point was pressed? I am worry about possible problem on my sgs2.
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Click to collapse
Didn't do anything. Opened it, charged it and booted it. Tested it out and rolled down statusbar, noticed directly and all my happyness for my new phone dissappeared.
I guess its the kind of person who owns the phone..
I myself am almost a perfectionist.. well.. atleast when i buy new things.. why would i want a new product with some minor/ major problems on it?
hardware problems.. not software.. since software can be fixed.
I had the circle on mine, top right of the screen. Made a thread about it last week: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1078058
Noticed it shortly after taking delivery of the box when I was viewing some photos. It's not visible on pixels where full brightness is used (no matter if it's R, G, or B), but on anything between black and full white it's visible. Sent mine back yesterday for replacement, but I was told by an Expansys-USA rep that they won't have any in stock till the 30th.
Supposedly it's from the suction cup used on the assembly line and that it's technically supposed to go away over time. Expansys only gives a small window of time for returns, and my circle wasn't showing signs of disappearing. Might wanna have yours swapped out, too.
Thanks, was looking for someone else having this problem.
I live in Sweden and ordered from operator Telenor.
They only have a 7 day DOA, so I called them and because all phones were out both in physical store and on the web, they was going to send me a servicebox that I will pack everything and then send it. Hopefully I will get a new one in a few weeks. They say that it can take up to a month though.
Hey there,
I got the exact same thing, but on the right side of the display. I got this thing just yesterday, I live in Germany.
I really do not want to send it back, especially since it seems display problems are pretty common with this phone and there is no guarantee I'll get another one without it.
Anyone knows if this might go away? I have 4 weeks until I have to send it back.
No idea if it will go away, but if you've got 4 weeks, maybe you can see if it does fade over time? I had a really short period of time to report any problems with the phone to Expansys (48 hours), so I couldn't wait.
Man... 4 weeks..! That seems like such a luxurious amount of time to check for problems with the phone.
I can't see anything like this on my phone...
How can I see/make it:-??
Ok, so i open it up, and whammo. Like a punch in the face:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlwzcB6_px0
What's wrong with my transformer? Defective? Do i have to return it?
Kind of dissapointed right now
I'd return it right away
catolh said:
Ok, so i open it up, and whammo. Like a punch in the face:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlwzcB6_px0
What's wrong with my transformer? Defective? Do i have to return it?
Kind of dissapointed right now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've never seen anything like that.
screen defect, i'd say.
RMA (unless somebody else knows better).
I have requested a return from the store, i hope it goes quickly. The lines seem to change after each boot. Sometimes the ones you see on the vid, and sometimes just extreme flickering lines.
It kind of reminds me of artifacts on a overheated graphics card
Here is another one showing extreme flicker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQaNDtpu3zc
looks like GPU is dying. Ive seen similar stripes on XPS M1330
TURNSKIN said:
looks like GPU is dying. Ive seen similar stripes on XPS M1330
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Click to collapse
Crazy stuff, happening on a new, just opened device.
Pretty dissapointed at the moment
Looks the same as a partially broken laptop screen looks when its been dropped etc
Return it before they think you have had it long enough to have done it yourself
That is either the GPU or the video RAM failing, NOT a screen issue.
I would just exchange it at the store, make sure to tell them that it was like that when you opened it. Sometimes you'll get smartasses that will try to say you broke it, and that you're trying to get rid of it, even though it's obvious that you couldn't of done that. RMA would be too long of a wait, and they'd probably send you a new one anyways.
I'm no expert, but it looks like how my old laptops look when the flat ribbon connector to the LCD starts to break. Sometimes the wires will still make contact, sometimes they'll break in random patterns, so it could change depending on heat and just the right orientation of things.
Regardless, you should already be in line for a return/replacement. Stop reading this!
SilverZero said:
I'm no expert, but it looks like how my old laptops look when the flat ribbon connector to the LCD starts to break. Sometimes the wires will still make contact, sometimes they'll break in random patterns, so it could change depending on heat and just the right orientation of things.
Regardless, you should already be in line for a return/replacement. Stop reading this!
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Click to collapse
The thing is, i ordered it online. From a store that's usually pretty fast with these kind of things, so i hope it turns out ok.
I had to call an asus customer support centre at first though, and they were having technical difficulties, and had to call me back later on. I just hope they call today.
Wow my first transformer had that same thing but it was more in the middle. Sent it back to newegg immediately for a exchange. The
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
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Gutted for you! hope you get it swapped quicky. nothing worse than having brand new kit that is faulty.
Small update, Asus called me back with a reference number to a case they have made regarding the unit, now it is up to the store to give me a return code so i can ship the faulty unit back to them.
Hopefully they dont arse about, and send me a new one quickly.
Return right away! That's pretty messed up.
stcardinal said:
Return right away! That's pretty messed up.
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I plan to, but i have to get a return code from the online site i bought it from. (legitimate site, one of the biggest online electronic stores in norway) so im pretty sure it will turn out ok.
*update*
Finally got a return number, and off it goes.
Today i received an e-mail about the status of my RMA.
A new replacement unit has been sent
It took a while, but they have been swamped in work lately it seems. (Not ASUS, but the store i bought it from)
glad you got that all squared away. I probably wouldnt even be able to articulate the anger I would have felt if that happened to me oh ya, expletives would have been said lol
Just recieved my Nexus 7 today and when going to turn it on, I was greeted by a fantastic grey, washed out screen. This can't be normal can it? Has anyone else had this problem and managed to fix it? Any help would be greatly appreciated! I have attached an image for people to inspect, and the only reason I am creating a new thread is because I don't think this is the same issue as the other 'screen washed out' thread. Thanks!
Oh wow. There is no easy way to say it but, no, that is not normal. It may be just that the display cable is not connected all the way or that there actually is something wrong with the screen itself. Either way though, I would RMA that. Tell Google to overnight it like the rest of them that are shipping and you want it advance RMAed.
The problems with these devices is unacceptable.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Hmm this is going to seem VERY weird, but just two seconds ago, I got up out of my chair quickly while holding the device and now the screen looks fine. What is going on with the QC with these? Would you reccomend still RMAing it? I am not even joking, I simply stood up with the device and it fixed itself.
EDIT: Well guess what. I left the device off for the duration of just writing this post and it is back to its washed out self. Looks like it's time to RMA!
smt8544 said:
Hmm this is going to seem VERY weird, but just two seconds ago, I got up out of my chair quickly while holding the device and now the screen looks fine. What is going on with the QC with these? Would you reccomend still RMAing it? I am not even joking, I simply stood up with the device and it fixed itself.
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Click to collapse
Yes, definitely. Just because the problem has(or so it appears to have) fixed itself for the time being doesn't mean that the problem won't creep up or just full blown come back right out of warranty/return window. Also, if something like that got through quality control, what else could be wrong with the device? I would still RMA to be sure. Since this problem appears to be coming and going, I would try to send a picture of the problem in action to someone at Google and have them attach it to your RMA. Maybe even try to put your Google email address in there on a piece of paper or something so that they know that you indeed did take the picture because if they recieve it with no apparent problems, they will assume that you are just returning the device and charge you a 15% surcharge.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
Your not the only one that has this problem looks like first batch shipments have alot defects and bugs
Thanks very much for your replies! I have used the Google Play 'contact us' page (not sure if this is the best way but it's a start!) to get this RMA going. Very annoyed at the QC on this device and this many glaring issues really doesn't give me high hopes about the replacement either.
Already sent mine back to ebuyer. Had light bleed. So annoying. Rushed them out I think.
Sent from my HTC One S using xda app-developers app
i reckon you're very unlucky, since this only happens to a handful amount of people, good luck in ur rma request
Questions go in the Q&A section
I had one with screen raise ... otherwise great. I don't want the hassle of endless refund cycles.
So, for new (or recent) orders from the Play store which I am assuming is the fastest clearing channel... do they still have the screen lift problem.
i.e. has the hardware been rev'd yet ? Anyone with a recent delivery know....
I just got my replacement today. I don't want to speak too soon but it's been out of the box for about 2 hrs and hey it looks fine right now. I'm gonna charge it and use it a little and see if anything pops up so to say and I'll update later tonight.
Edit: I wish there was a way to tell the hardware revision if there is one at all. I might crack these both open before I send my other one back and see if I can spot any differences.
I don't consider the screen lift an issue so I would have to say you have been good since day one. Other than that I haven't heard anything on "New batches" being released.
miketoasty said:
I don't consider the screen lift an issue so I would have to say you have been good since day one. Other than that I haven't heard anything on "New batches" being released.
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Not sure how its NOT and issue. Considering if the screen lifts to much the tablet wont work correctly. That being said I have got my replacement and I have a feeling its going to do the same thing. If you look down the sides of the tablet you will notice where the glass doesnt connect to the case. Thats where the screen is going to lift and the way this one looks its going to be just a matter of time before the screen lifts.
TokesKB said:
Not sure how its NOT and issue. Considering if the screen lifts to much the tablet wont work correctly. That being said I have got my replacement and I have a feeling its going to do the same thing. If you look down the sides of the tablet you will notice where the glass doesnt connect to the case. Thats where the screen is going to lift and the way this one looks its going to be just a matter of time before the screen lifts.
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I have had the screen lift since day one and have no issues since. Don't understand how a slim screen lift is going to bork the device.
Got my second unit Wednesday. It has screen lift as well.
I would definitely advise against buying retail, but I think Google can be trusted. I'm just going to hold onto this defective one for a month or two. Then I'll ask for a replacement.
No regrets, although I was pretty miffed about opening a new one with the same flaw when it happened.
miketoasty said:
I have had the screen lift since day one and have no issues since. Don't understand how a slim screen lift is going to bork the device.
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Click to collapse
Did I say it would bork the device....no. If you want to use it with the screen lift good for you.
Mine has a tiny irrelevant bulge...should I return it guys oh noes it isn't perfect ;(
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Guys... we are getting off topic. The question is not whether the screen lift is an issue to some (and not others).. but when will the hardware be rev'd so that the screen is flat.
a) Never (not considered an issue).
b) Soon - but still not yet shipping.
c) New ones are now coming in with flush screens.
Not gonna make this a poll.
Just want to know if those who have taken recent delivery have got flush screens....
tribestros said:
Mine has a tiny irrelevant bulge...should I return it guys oh noes it isn't perfect ;(
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
i got a cherry 87 buick I would like to sell you
Maybe your right, my touchscreen stopped working after use and the screen lift. I guess I should have kept it
I bought mine retail from Office Depot on 7/17 and haven't had a single problem with it.
In the UK I'm waiting until they physically have them in the stores. Right now it tends to be buy online and pick up in store a couple of days later. I got one last Friday from Tesco Direct and it had the screen-lift (this IS a fault) so took it straight back. I'd rather be taking back and getting a replacement straight away rather than waiting 2-3 days...or 10 days and counting with the crappy service offered by Google
charco83 said:
In the UK I'm waiting until they physically have them in the stores. Right now it tends to be buy online and pick up in store a couple of days later. I got one last Friday from Tesco Direct and it had the screen-lift (this IS a fault) so took it straight back. I'd rather be taking back and getting a replacement straight away rather than waiting 2-3 days...or 10 days and counting with the crappy service offered by Google
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Click to collapse
Careful with buying in store. It may not be considered a fault (for the reasons expressed elsewhere in this thread) and if you do not have UK DSR law then you may not be able (allowed) to make a return. I wouldn't fancy my chances in CPW or Currys of doing a return if the device is functioning (but just not quite flush).
Most UK retailers allow you to return for simply not liking the product. In Tesco the guy told me it didn't matter if it was faulty as it was within their X days return. They'll be selling them in store in a couple of weeks apparently.
tribestos, fail to see how OCD relates to finding a fault on a piece of hardware. It's not like people are obsessively looking for faults. The screen isn't supposed to lift but it does. That's a design flaw.
So somebody must be taking the hit for all the returns... is it the retailer or do they just return the units back to the manufacturer and not pay for the duff ones ?
deaglecat said:
Guys... we are getting off topic. The question is not whether the screen lift is an issue to some (and not others).. but when will the hardware be rev'd so that the screen is flat.
a) Never (not considered an issue).
b) Soon - but still not yet shipping.
c) New ones are now coming in with flush screens.
Not gonna make this a poll.
Just want to know if those who have taken recent delivery have got flush screens....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The replacement 7s poll has gotten sunnier, although people are voting prematurely. Also, it's not public, but I don't think many would tamper with it.
Although I have not seen a unit without this defect, there are at least a few posters there who should know exactly what to look for and haven't found any separation in their replacement whatsoever. That's a good sign, and that poll was pretty ugly last Wednesday, so the vast majority of respondents since then have been ticking perfect.
As for when this flaw will be officially dealt with, probably never. But don't hold that against Google. They can make right by rooting out the manufacturing flaw and dealing with unsatisfied customers on an individual basis. No need for any headlines.
Got my first Nexus 7 on the 17th. I was somewhat unhappy with how washed out the colors were. Also when I play a video the screen gets even more washed out for a short period of time. Generally just looks unsatisfactory. Also I have a row of pixels that sometimes flickers.
On the 24th I got my replacement Nexus 7. It was also washed out looking, had the same video playback issue. And the glass was raise on the left side if I held it there the screen would distort slightly.
I called Google today to get a feel on if I should try a second replacement or get a refund. The lady at Google said that Google has the new batch in now and says it has fixed the issues the first batch had with raised glass, pixel issues, and color quality.
So I'm doing a second RMA now. She's even letting me RMA the second device while I still have my first device (was worried I'd need to send that back before starting the second RMA).
Ravynmagi said:
Got my first Nexus 7 on the 17th. I was somewhat unhappy with how washed out the colors were. Also when I play a video the screen gets even more washed out for a short period of time. Generally just looks unsatisfactory. Also I have a row of pixels that sometimes flickers.
On the 24th I got my replacement Nexus 7. It was also washed out looking, had the same video playback issue. And the glass was raise on the left side if I held it there the screen would distort slightly.
I called Google today to get a feel on if I should try a second replacement or get a refund. The lady at Google said that Google has the new batch in now and says it has fixed the issues the first batch had with raised glass, pixel issues, and color quality.
So I'm doing a second RMA now. She's even letting me RMA the second device while I still have my first device (was worried I'd need to send that back before starting the second RMA).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow that is brilliant news... assuming that the CS adviser was being honest.
tribestros said:
Mine has a tiny irrelevant bulge...should I return it guys oh noes it isn't perfect ;(
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have that choice. But when I spend my money on something I expect it to be built w/o flaws. Hope the glass dont fall out on you when the screws get to lose! Oh you wont care tho it will still be irrelevant right?
deaglecat said:
Wow that is brilliant news... assuming that the CS adviser was being honest.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, I hope she wasn't blowing smoke up my butt. That happens too. But I figure with the 16GB Nexus 7 suddenly returning to the Play store and the CS telling me this, it's hopefully correct.