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Found this article on ars technica about the Nexus One screen:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...exus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/
In this article, I'll explore the issue of the Nexus One's screen resolution in some detail. I'll also talk a bit about the science behind how the screen works, and I'll show you some cool image hacks that let you turn greyscale images into color, just by using pinch-and-zoom in the Nexus One's gallery application.
Note: We offered a Google a chance to comment on the issues raised in this article, but we received no reply as of press time.
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A very interesting article. Ars is a cut above the rest when it comes to in depth discussion.
Thanks for the link.
Good read. I had a very hard time with small text when I first got the N1, and with a Droid side-by-side with my N1, a had people who could not see the artifacting that I was seeing. At least I know I wasn't going ape****, and now I have an explanation. Oddly, I don't mind these things about the screen now.
Great article, thanks for sharing.
Excellent article, thx for sharing this. While it was a bit beyond my scope of expertise, I do nonetheless appreciate an in-depth analysis.
I have no idea what they're saying. oO
Anyone want to provide the cliff's notes' version?
They're saying that the use of the PenTile matrix for the display means that text on the N1 is less sharp/crisp than text on non-PenTile displays such as the Droid, and that the effective resolution is actually much smaller (392x653) than the advertised 800x480 due to the fact that the read and blue blocks are twice the width of green.
danguyf said:
They're saying that the use of the PenTile matrix for the display means that text on the N1 is less sharp/crisp than text on non-PenTile displays such as the Droid, and that the effective resolution is actually much smaller (392x653) than the advertised 800x480 due to the fact that the read and blue blocks are twice the width of green.
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So this has no effect on anything but text then?
Paul22000 said:
I have no idea what they're saying. oO
Anyone want to provide the cliff's notes' version?
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There is another thread somewhere on N1 forum which has a better explanation.
Anyways... here are my notes and some extra stuff that will help you understand things better []
This article is about AMOLED screen in general. Author uses N1 for reference as it is the first mainstream phone to use this screen.
In traditional screen language, a pixel is a small square with three colors. Red Green Blue (RGB). In AMOLED, we have three independent LEDs each of different colors grouped together to create these colors.
Now traditionally, one would think that AMOLED will have RGB LED combinations and we can call them pixels... this would have made AMOLED as perfect replacements for traditional LCDs.
When LCDs were introduced... people realized that fonts look bad as LCDs are pixel blocks and create jagged looking fonts. Companies like MS devoted years of research to comeup with truetype/cleartype fonts so that LCDs can display smooth fonts.
However, AMOLED uses RGBG format. R and B are twice the thickness of green. So better way to write them is "RRGBBG" where each R,G,B are of same width. This is for LED life reasons. Thus, your pixel, in traditional sense (RGB together) will be approximately twice the width.
Thus all the font display technologies that works on LCD doesn't work anymore. and fonts look bad on AMOLED.
Now, when I was watching windows 7 presentations... MS has developed new font rendering schemes for AMOLEDs. They showed some results and you can zoom in continuously without seeing jaggedness of fonts.
Thus, this is not an screen issue... AMOLED is a new technology... people haven't figured out everything yet. having said that... AMOLED has way too many advantages over LCD and therefore.. most new devices are adopting it. Soon we should see a solution.
BTW.. i am a mechanical engineer.. so I might have used some wrong technical terms.... I might be wrong as well. []
arkavat said:
However, AMOLED uses RGBG format. R and B are twice the thickness of green. So better way to write them is "RRGBBG" where each R,G,B are of same width. This is for LED life reasons. Thus, your pixel, in traditional sense (RGB together) will be approximately twice the width.
Thus all the font display technologies that works on LCD doesn't work anymore. and fonts look bad on AMOLED.
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Lost me here. I don't see the connection between the two paragraphs... Let's see...
So you're saying that text looks bad on AMOLED screens because Microsoft technologies don't work on them, correct?
If so, what does Microsoft have to do with Android phones? How would their technologies get into Android in the first place?
And does that mean that Google just has to release new font "smoothing" in Android 2.2 and all issues will go away?
Paul22000 said:
Lost me here. I don't see the connection between the two paragraphs... Let's see...
So you're saying that text looks bad on AMOLED screens because Microsoft technologies don't work on them, correct?
If so, what does Microsoft have to do with Android phones? How would their technologies get into Android in the first place?
And does that mean that Google just has to release new font "smoothing" in Android 2.2 and all issues will go away?
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oh.. no... Microsoft cleartype font is just an example.... there are other things available... it think truetype is by apple... then there is opentype (opensource) etc...
Google should be able to solve it by using different rendering algorithms.
Again... just for the sake of example... Micorosft has developed a new sub-pixel redndering to handle AMOLED on Windows Phone 7. http://www.flickr.com/photos/marypcb/4362590066/
So yes.. it is possible.
Ah I see.
So just to make it clear, the entire Ars Technica article can be solved with software, correct?
Paul22000 said:
Ah I see.
So just to make it clear, the entire Ars Technica article can be solved with software, correct?
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yes... but it is not so easy. The pixel structure in AMOLED is quite different than LCD. Sub-pixel rendering technologies need to be optimized for this pixel structure.
arkavat said:
There is another thread somewhere on N1 forum which has a better explanation.
Anyways... here are my notes and some extra stuff that will help you understand things better []
This article is about AMOLED screen in general. Author uses N1 for reference as it is the first mainstream phone to use this screen.
In traditional screen language, a pixel is a small square with three colors. Red Green Blue (RGB). In AMOLED, we have three independent LEDs each of different colors grouped together to create these colors.
Now traditionally, one would think that AMOLED will have RGB LED combinations and we can call them pixels... this would have made AMOLED as perfect replacements for traditional LCDs.
When LCDs were introduced... people realized that fonts look bad as LCDs are pixel blocks and create jagged looking fonts. Companies like MS devoted years of research to comeup with truetype/cleartype fonts so that LCDs can display smooth fonts.
However, AMOLED uses RGBG format. R and B are twice the thickness of green. So better way to write them is "RRGBBG" where each R,G,B are of same width. This is for LED life reasons. Thus, your pixel, in traditional sense (RGB together) will be approximately twice the width.
Thus all the font display technologies that works on LCD doesn't work anymore. and fonts look bad on AMOLED.
Now, when I was watching windows 7 presentations... MS has developed new font rendering schemes for AMOLEDs. They showed some results and you can zoom in continuously without seeing jaggedness of fonts.
Thus, this is not an screen issue... AMOLED is a new technology... people haven't figured out everything yet. having said that... AMOLED has way too many advantages over LCD and therefore.. most new devices are adopting it. Soon we should see a solution.
BTW.. i am a mechanical engineer.. so I might have used some wrong technical terms.... I might be wrong as well. []
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good stuff thanks
Since the Pentile matrix pattern does a sort of hardware based antialiasing, is there a way to turn off the sub pixel rendering engine in Andriod? Since it would be redundant.
It seems there's not enought AMOLED for everyone, so I guess the developer version of the Nexus One that is going to be sold soon will use this lcd?? Here's the press release:
HTC Introduces SLCD Display Technology To Its Portfolio
New Displays to be integrated into HTC Desire and Nexus One
Taoyuan, TAIWAN – July 26, 2010 – HTC Corporation, a global designer of smartphones, today introduced Super LCD display (SLCD) technology into a variety of HTC phones including the HTC Desire and global Nexus One later this summer. The SLCD display offers an exceptional natural balanced colour, clear contrast, broad viewing angles and improved power efficiency.
"HTC is experiencing high-demand for many of our phones, specifically our phones with 3.7 inch displays. The new SLCD display technology enables us to ramp up our production capabilities quickly to meet the high-demand," said Peter Chou, CEO of HTC Corporation. "The SLCD displays provide consumers with a comparable visual experience to HTC's current 3.7 inch displays with some additional benefits including battery performance."
SLCD is the latest generation of LCD technology that offers improved performance from earlier LCD panels including approximately five times better power management. SLCDs also offer an enhanced viewing experience with wider viewing angles that are enabled by Sony's new VSPEC III™ technology.
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Source: Engadget
Read between the lines. . . This is going to be a more efficient display unit, that is easily manufactured. I don't see anything involving the word "better".
Battery life is already impressive unless you use your Nexus for literally everything.
HighTech216 said:
Read between the lines. . . This is going to be a more efficient display unit, that is easily manufactured. I don't see anything involving the word "better".
Battery life is already impressive unless you use your Nexus for literally everything.
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I'm not saying it's better or worse. I'm just posting news. 0_o
maybe samsung just doesn't want to sell any to HTC.. is SLCD "comparable" to AMLCD or whatever used by iphone4..
I'm already thinking about selling my brand new Nexus One in order to get a new one with an SLCD screen.
Goodbye pentiles! Goodbye over saturation!
Hope Sony is NOT going the pentile matrix way, as this is not exclusive to amoleds...
i'm wondering whether the new screen uses a better digitizer for multi touch? a multi touch Vis test would be good on a Super LCD nexus one.
Shahpur.Azizpour said:
I'm already thinking about selling my brand new Nexus One in order to get a new one with an SLCD screen.
Goodbye pentiles! Goodbye over saturation!
Hope Sony is NOT going the pentile matrix way, as this is not exclusive to amoleds...
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what's wrong with pentiles? and why is over saturation not a good thing. it makes things look more vibrant and colorful?
stats101 said:
what's wrong with pentiles? and why is over saturation not a good thing. it makes things look more vibrant and colorful?
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The point is over saturation; ie: things look over saturated. However personally I have not found it to be a problem, and I typically notice these sorts of things being a photographer. But I have different devices for different scopes of work, and they don't all have to be equivalent. I don't have to have "the best" camera in my phone, my work monitor doesn't have to be perfectly calibrated (okay, so it is, I hate bad colours..)
And Pentile sucks. Everything looks dithered. I'm sure it's not exclusive to AMOLED but I can't imagine the purpose of it anywhere else? The main purpose, as I understand it, is to drive most of the luminance from the emitters which have longer life.
exactly. the point is that the colors on amoleds, especially reds and orange colors, are way too saturated. I hate the color reproduction on the nexus one.
And PenTiles are the WORST invention ever, the dithered look distracts the eyes, especially when reading a lot of text. The display is my main complaint woth the nexus one, other than that im completely happy. (ok the stock homescreens are laggy as hell even on android 2.2, but at least there are some replacement apps available).
khaytsus said:
The point is over saturation; ie: things look over saturated. However personally I have not found it to be a problem, and I typically notice these sorts of things being a photographer. But I have different devices for different scopes of work, and they don't all have to be equivalent. I don't have to have "the best" camera in my phone, my work monitor doesn't have to be perfectly calibrated (okay, so it is, I hate bad colours..)
And Pentile sucks. Everything looks dithered. I'm sure it's not exclusive to AMOLED but I can't imagine the purpose of it anywhere else? The main purpose, as I understand it, is to drive most of the luminance from the emitters which have longer life.
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If the SLCD is way better under sunlight I hope GoOgLe will give us the choice to replace the screen,this with better battery life will be exellent
I love my n1 and I like the AMOLED when I use it in the dark but I'd seriously consider getting the LCD version if they upgrade the touch sensor.
ChronoReverse said:
I love my n1 and I like the AMOLED when I use it in the dark but I'd seriously consider getting the LCD version if they upgrade the touch sensor.
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Has anyone heard word on whether the touch sensor is getting updated as well?
Shahpur.Azizpour said:
exactly. the point is that the colors on amoleds, especially reds and orange colors, are way too saturated. I hate the color reproduction on the nexus one.
And PenTiles are the WORST invention ever, the dithered look distracts the eyes, especially when reading a lot of text. The display is my main complaint woth the nexus one, other than that im completely happy. (ok the stock homescreens are laggy as hell even on android 2.2, but at least there are some replacement apps available).
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Agree with the PenTile display! For some reason so few people realize just how ****ty it is. I remember commenting on Engadget saying how ****ty it looks compared to my Touch Pro 2 and people just called me a troll even though I owned both devices.
My honest first opinion of my Nexus One after turning it on is "Wow, this screen sucks!" But I kept it despite its ****ty screen and lack of keyboard because I love my 1GHz processor.
Yea I'm curious how this will affect existing users. Sounds like they are trying to use cheaper screens to deepen their pockets, but I'm all for it if the quality is better or on par of our existing screens.... especially if it fixes the multitouch bugs.
if someone got a replacement Nexus One with Super LCD, then could you please test multi touch with MultiTouch Vis Test? thanks
petard said:
Agree with the PenTile display! For some reason so few people realize just how ****ty it is. I remember commenting on Engadget saying how ****ty it looks compared to my Touch Pro 2 and people just called me a troll even though I owned both devices.
My honest first opinion of my Nexus One after turning it on is "Wow, this screen sucks!" But I kept it despite its ****ty screen and lack of keyboard because I love my 1GHz processor.
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Yeah, sadly there are many people which don't see this problem and therefore it seems like this cheap approach is paying off for the manufacturers. Even the Touch Diamond 2 had a far better WVGA Display (LCD).
I also had an motorola milestone (droid) testdevice and the screen on the milestone just kills the n1 screen. I can literally read the text on fully zoomed out webpages on the milestone, while on the n1 i can't see the text clearly at all.
The problem is: People who never witnessed a better WVGA screen will be happy as the AMOLED Pentile screens are at least better then old HVGA screens. But anybody who got to experience WVGA on an LCD without Pentile Matrix garbage will know that the difference ist huge.
So would HTC potentially replace existing n1's displays with the SLCD if they are under warranty.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Lcd and digitizer are separate pieces of hardware, you won't be seeing it upgraded.
What is wrong with your guys that everything turns into a flame fest over something like a display???
Can't you read? The "marketing/promotional" release stated it is better. Therefore, it must be true
i would like to know how SLCD is more efficient battery power. did they mean more efficient over traditional LCD, or more efficient over AMOLED? i'm assuming over LCD.
i know the pentile problems and all, but i honestly still dont mind it. i've seen the EVO and droid and how crisp they look, but it just isnt a huge difference for me. i like the over saturate colors of amoled!
do you think it'll make any difference??? would it be better or worse? should we change our N1s soon
http://mashable.com/2010/07/26/htc-super-lcd/
HTC officially announced it will be swapping AMOLED with Super LCD (SLCD) displays in several of its phones later this summer, including the Desire and Nexus One.
The reason, according to HTC, is high demand for phones with 3.7 inch displays, and low availability of AMOLED screens.
Whether AMOLED screens are better than LCD screens is debatable, but buyers of these SLCD-equipped versions of HTC smartphones get an added benefit: better batery life. “The SLCD displays provide consumers with a comparable visual experience to HTC’s current 3.7 inch displays with some additional benefits including battery performance,” said HTC CEO Peter Chou.
This sheds light onto Apple’s reasoning for choosing LCD technology for its iPhone 4. When Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone 4, he said its LCD retina display is “quite a bit better than OLED displays.” It’s quite possible, however, that Apple went with LCD technology because it estimated that AMOLEDs will be in short supply.
already a thread on this on the first page of the general forum.
"The Korean company’s yet to be launched AH-IPS display for mobile devices, just received the prestigious Quality & Performance Mark from Intertek – a global testing and certification company. What’s particularly important about this award for LG, is that it has been achieved by comparing its display with no other but Samsung Galaxy SII’s Super AMOLED screen."---gsmarena blog
Are you excited about this ?? Do you believe its going to beat Samsung's SUPER AMOLED HD.
varunkumars said:
"The Korean company’s yet to be launched AH-IPS display for mobile devices, just received the prestigious Quality & Performance Mark from Intertek – a global testing and certification company. What’s particularly important about this award for LG, is that it has been achieved by comparing its display with no other but Samsung Galaxy SII’s Super AMOLED screen."---gsmarena blog
Are you excited about this ?? Do you believe its going to beat Samsung's SUPER AMOLED HD.
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they are saying an IPS display beats an advanced AMOLED display
.......
Yes, Im very excited about this but we would only see this on LG's phones or on the Iphone5.. I do hope its gonna beat Samsung's SAMOLED HD!
If there is anything which can outplay S-AMOLED Plus then I will be greatly happy. Don't wanna stick with Samsung frankly as I don't like them at all.
(I am not a fan boy of any brand btw)
Regards.
But you don't know how the SUPER AMOLED PLUS HD is going to look like, only time can tell you.
Even though AMOLED+ has gorgeous colours and blacks are jet black, OLED has a lot low life span compared to lcd, and the burn-in can be a problem, you just have to avoid static images, the status bar can be a problem, i have see pictures of the time burned into the screen.
No LCD will beat OLED technology and IPS is just LCD. Don't believe that.
varunkumars said:
But you don't know how the SUPER AMOLED PLUS HD is going to look like, only time can tell you.
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I perfectly know what to expect with Super AMOLED Plus HD, its gonna have the same inherit issue as what the non HD counter part has, thought not all screen will be defective but pretty sure it will be at a higher rate than the non HD.
http://blog.gsmarena.com/lgs-yet-to...assing-samsung-galaxy-siis-super-amoled-unit/
The article states that the award pertains to
color accuracy and power consumption
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which shouldn't be surprising at all. Everyone knows that SAMOLED is often oversaturated and burns power when showing whites.
Meanwhile super amoleds (as well as other OLEDs) still outclass LCDs in contrast, viewing angles, response times, color gamut, black levels, and thickness. SAMOLED is still better, and will always be.
You people are missing one point here LG's AH IPS display is a HD screen, whereas s2's amoled screen is not. THe award was won by LG because they were the first to launch HD display, now samsung has its own amoled hd display. So there should be direct comparison between 2 HD screens and not with s2's amoled+
icecreampop3 said:
http://blog.gsmarena.com/lgs-yet-to...assing-samsung-galaxy-siis-super-amoled-unit/
The article states that the award pertains to which shouldn't be surprising at all. Everyone knows that SAMOLED is often oversaturated and burns power when showing whites.
Meanwhile super amoleds (as well as other OLEDs) still outclass LCDs in contrast, viewing angles, response times, color gamut, black levels, and thickness. SAMOLED is still better, and will always be.
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That's pretty old, meanwhile LG Nitro has incorporated that HD screen and a battery of 1830mAh.
Has anybody seen the battery life of that thing ? It's a piece of crap even if LG stated that it's more economical than the SA+
http://blog.gsmarena.com/lg-nitro-hd-completed-our-battery-trial-here-are-the-results-video/
Samsung owns SLCD ,so why does samsung not use SLCD on their phones? why is htc the only company(that i know of) using SLCD screens?
( i don't mind amoled screens, just wondering why they don't use it)
AMOLEDs are in general more battery efficient, thinner (from what I know), has better contrast ratios etc. It's still somewhat work in progress, but still I'd bet on it replacing LCDs in foreseeable future.
And SLCD is owned by both Samsung and Sony right? Not just Samsung?
tuxonhtc said:
AMOLEDs are in general more battery efficient, thinner (from what I know), has better contrast ratios etc. It's still somewhat work in progress, but still I'd bet on it replacing LCDs in foreseeable future.
And SLCD is owned by both Samsung and Sony right? Not just Samsung?
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thanks for your reply, i think OLED is the future not amoled(not the pentile matrix thing). Samsung bought sonys share in SLCD, so samsung owns the whole company.
Pentile will be sticking with Samsung for some time, I think they will keep using this technology for flexible screens until they come up with qLED or something brand new in my opinion.
1. They own the IP and they put in lot of R&D to improve the technology
2. Amoled diodes are organic so the colours tend to die faster than LCD. With pentile, it increases the longevity while increasing battery life (2 big things Samsung focuses on)
With the new improved S4 screen, it really closed the gap.
Trollololol said:
thanks for your reply, i think OLED is the future not amoled(not the pentile matrix thing). Samsung bought sonys share in SLCD, so samsung owns the whole company.
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AMOLED is a subset of OLED, like SLCD is of LCD. I agree, not a big fan of pentile. But sRGB AMOLED is still not viable to be manufactured in full HD, I mean they have to make this thing affordable for masses afterall.
Are you sure about Samsung buying the entire SLCD though? Wiki seems to suggest otherwise?
tuxonhtc said:
AMOLED is a subset of OLED, like SLCD is of LCD. I agree, not a big fan of pentile. But sRGB AMOLED is still not viable to be manufactured in full HD, I mean they have to make this thing affordable for masses afterall.
Are you sure about Samsung buying the entire SLCD though? Wiki seems to suggest otherwise?
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16330877
Actually amoleds consume more power compared to LCDs (when kept at same brightnes) ,that is one of the reasons why Amoleds are less bright than LCDs.
sent fromXperia sT21i
Everything stock
i9100g user said:
Actually amoleds consume more power compared to LCDs (when kept at same brightnes) ,that is one of the reasons why Amoleds are less bright than LCDs.
sent fromXperia sT21i
Everything stock
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Really? I thought Amoled consumes less because they don't have a constant backlight like LCD. More picture dependent.