Found this article on ars technica about the Nexus One screen:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...exus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/
In this article, I'll explore the issue of the Nexus One's screen resolution in some detail. I'll also talk a bit about the science behind how the screen works, and I'll show you some cool image hacks that let you turn greyscale images into color, just by using pinch-and-zoom in the Nexus One's gallery application.
Note: We offered a Google a chance to comment on the issues raised in this article, but we received no reply as of press time.
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A very interesting article. Ars is a cut above the rest when it comes to in depth discussion.
Thanks for the link.
Good read. I had a very hard time with small text when I first got the N1, and with a Droid side-by-side with my N1, a had people who could not see the artifacting that I was seeing. At least I know I wasn't going ape****, and now I have an explanation. Oddly, I don't mind these things about the screen now.
Great article, thanks for sharing.
Excellent article, thx for sharing this. While it was a bit beyond my scope of expertise, I do nonetheless appreciate an in-depth analysis.
I have no idea what they're saying. oO
Anyone want to provide the cliff's notes' version?
They're saying that the use of the PenTile matrix for the display means that text on the N1 is less sharp/crisp than text on non-PenTile displays such as the Droid, and that the effective resolution is actually much smaller (392x653) than the advertised 800x480 due to the fact that the read and blue blocks are twice the width of green.
danguyf said:
They're saying that the use of the PenTile matrix for the display means that text on the N1 is less sharp/crisp than text on non-PenTile displays such as the Droid, and that the effective resolution is actually much smaller (392x653) than the advertised 800x480 due to the fact that the read and blue blocks are twice the width of green.
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So this has no effect on anything but text then?
Paul22000 said:
I have no idea what they're saying. oO
Anyone want to provide the cliff's notes' version?
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There is another thread somewhere on N1 forum which has a better explanation.
Anyways... here are my notes and some extra stuff that will help you understand things better []
This article is about AMOLED screen in general. Author uses N1 for reference as it is the first mainstream phone to use this screen.
In traditional screen language, a pixel is a small square with three colors. Red Green Blue (RGB). In AMOLED, we have three independent LEDs each of different colors grouped together to create these colors.
Now traditionally, one would think that AMOLED will have RGB LED combinations and we can call them pixels... this would have made AMOLED as perfect replacements for traditional LCDs.
When LCDs were introduced... people realized that fonts look bad as LCDs are pixel blocks and create jagged looking fonts. Companies like MS devoted years of research to comeup with truetype/cleartype fonts so that LCDs can display smooth fonts.
However, AMOLED uses RGBG format. R and B are twice the thickness of green. So better way to write them is "RRGBBG" where each R,G,B are of same width. This is for LED life reasons. Thus, your pixel, in traditional sense (RGB together) will be approximately twice the width.
Thus all the font display technologies that works on LCD doesn't work anymore. and fonts look bad on AMOLED.
Now, when I was watching windows 7 presentations... MS has developed new font rendering schemes for AMOLEDs. They showed some results and you can zoom in continuously without seeing jaggedness of fonts.
Thus, this is not an screen issue... AMOLED is a new technology... people haven't figured out everything yet. having said that... AMOLED has way too many advantages over LCD and therefore.. most new devices are adopting it. Soon we should see a solution.
BTW.. i am a mechanical engineer.. so I might have used some wrong technical terms.... I might be wrong as well. []
arkavat said:
However, AMOLED uses RGBG format. R and B are twice the thickness of green. So better way to write them is "RRGBBG" where each R,G,B are of same width. This is for LED life reasons. Thus, your pixel, in traditional sense (RGB together) will be approximately twice the width.
Thus all the font display technologies that works on LCD doesn't work anymore. and fonts look bad on AMOLED.
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Lost me here. I don't see the connection between the two paragraphs... Let's see...
So you're saying that text looks bad on AMOLED screens because Microsoft technologies don't work on them, correct?
If so, what does Microsoft have to do with Android phones? How would their technologies get into Android in the first place?
And does that mean that Google just has to release new font "smoothing" in Android 2.2 and all issues will go away?
Paul22000 said:
Lost me here. I don't see the connection between the two paragraphs... Let's see...
So you're saying that text looks bad on AMOLED screens because Microsoft technologies don't work on them, correct?
If so, what does Microsoft have to do with Android phones? How would their technologies get into Android in the first place?
And does that mean that Google just has to release new font "smoothing" in Android 2.2 and all issues will go away?
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oh.. no... Microsoft cleartype font is just an example.... there are other things available... it think truetype is by apple... then there is opentype (opensource) etc...
Google should be able to solve it by using different rendering algorithms.
Again... just for the sake of example... Micorosft has developed a new sub-pixel redndering to handle AMOLED on Windows Phone 7. http://www.flickr.com/photos/marypcb/4362590066/
So yes.. it is possible.
Ah I see.
So just to make it clear, the entire Ars Technica article can be solved with software, correct?
Paul22000 said:
Ah I see.
So just to make it clear, the entire Ars Technica article can be solved with software, correct?
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yes... but it is not so easy. The pixel structure in AMOLED is quite different than LCD. Sub-pixel rendering technologies need to be optimized for this pixel structure.
arkavat said:
There is another thread somewhere on N1 forum which has a better explanation.
Anyways... here are my notes and some extra stuff that will help you understand things better []
This article is about AMOLED screen in general. Author uses N1 for reference as it is the first mainstream phone to use this screen.
In traditional screen language, a pixel is a small square with three colors. Red Green Blue (RGB). In AMOLED, we have three independent LEDs each of different colors grouped together to create these colors.
Now traditionally, one would think that AMOLED will have RGB LED combinations and we can call them pixels... this would have made AMOLED as perfect replacements for traditional LCDs.
When LCDs were introduced... people realized that fonts look bad as LCDs are pixel blocks and create jagged looking fonts. Companies like MS devoted years of research to comeup with truetype/cleartype fonts so that LCDs can display smooth fonts.
However, AMOLED uses RGBG format. R and B are twice the thickness of green. So better way to write them is "RRGBBG" where each R,G,B are of same width. This is for LED life reasons. Thus, your pixel, in traditional sense (RGB together) will be approximately twice the width.
Thus all the font display technologies that works on LCD doesn't work anymore. and fonts look bad on AMOLED.
Now, when I was watching windows 7 presentations... MS has developed new font rendering schemes for AMOLEDs. They showed some results and you can zoom in continuously without seeing jaggedness of fonts.
Thus, this is not an screen issue... AMOLED is a new technology... people haven't figured out everything yet. having said that... AMOLED has way too many advantages over LCD and therefore.. most new devices are adopting it. Soon we should see a solution.
BTW.. i am a mechanical engineer.. so I might have used some wrong technical terms.... I might be wrong as well. []
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good stuff thanks
Since the Pentile matrix pattern does a sort of hardware based antialiasing, is there a way to turn off the sub pixel rendering engine in Andriod? Since it would be redundant.
Related
Secrets of the Nexus One's screen: science, color, and hacks
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/secrets-of-the-nexus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/
short version
Thoughts
*puts on flame suit*
either way i still love my NX-1
i will say this... every droid user has envy of my N1's screen.... ive yet to find someone who liked their droid screen better and i agree with every single one of them
by the way, this was posted in another thread already
I don't know.
My Nexus one screen looks pretty darned sharp to me.
true. delete this thread pls.
resinous said:
Secrets of the Nexus One's screen: science, color, and hacks
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/secrets-of-the-nexus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/
short version
Thoughts
*puts on flame suit*
either way i still love my NX-1
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It's a moronic comparison of two entirely different technologies.
Google isn't paying anything to the big techno blogs sites so what do you expect?
I've seen articles ranging from explaining how Google steals all your dataz and kills your dog to how google is bribing carriers and phone manufacturers to adapt android. The only thing you should do is to utilize your own judgement and get used to tech sites being like this. This isn't going to change anytime soon.
As I understand it the phone has the pixels it says it does it just doesn't utilize them properly, it also doesn't utilize RAM properly, I think it could also utilize the 5mp camera and 1ghz processor better.
The point is that the phone seems like it was rushed to the market and I believe a lot of the problems can be addressed with software updates. I just hope Google finishes whatever is taking all of their time so that the issues can be addressed. But I do think that so many of the issues can be resolved and this phone can truly become a "superphone". The nexus is taking a lot of well deserved criticism lately but Android has the ability to respond and improve the nexus/android experience without hardware overhaul, and I believe that's very shiny silver lining...
There's always some problem with every device. The only problem with nexus one is that it has no major issues, just minor ones which are being highlighted by iPhone lovers. AMOLED is a new technology, so things are different.
so he created some stippled greyscale pictures that produce artifacts because of the way the pixels are arranged on the N1 screen.
so what? like who looks at stippled greyscale pictures using their N1 anyway?
I also took a picture of some of the status bar icons using a digital camera in macro mode and my screen does not look like his picture of the 3g icon at all.
Its all about how the eye perceives images, forget that pseudo science. The AMOLED screen on the N1 is the best screen I have seen on any phone, black levels are incredible and contrast is good.
text is readable at a smaller font size than other phones.
If the N1s screen does have faults in the implementation of AMOLED then we can expect even better screens in the future using that technology, but as of today it is the best IMHO
Ha!
"You think your Nexus has a beautiful sharp display? It really doesn't. let me tell you why..."
classic
Beautiful display I could care less how the 480x800 res comes about. Everything looks amazing
scote said:
so he created some stippled greyscale pictures that produce artifacts because of the way the pixels are arranged on the N1 screen.
so what? like who looks at stippled greyscale pictures using their N1 anyway?
I also took a picture of some of the status bar icons using a digital camera in macro mode and my screen does not look like his picture of the 3g icon at all.
Its all about how the eye perceives images, forget that pseudo science. The AMOLED screen on the N1 is the best screen I have seen on any phone, black levels are incredible and contrast is good.
text is readable at a smaller font size than other phones.
If the N1s screen does have faults in the implementation of AMOLED then we can expect even better screens in the future using that technology, but as of today it is the best IMHO
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Can you post up the picture?
And still the UI isn't taking advantage of even that resolution, since the UI is only running at 320x533.
Matt-Helm said:
Ha!
"You think your Nexus has a beautiful sharp display? It really doesn't. let me tell you why..."
classic
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To be fair, many of us do recognize the fuzziness of the text and the article explains why that is happening. Perhaps a better statement (whether or not the tone of the article supports it) would have been "Your N1 has a beautiful sharp display that wows people, but the text seems a little fuzzier than you would expect for such a nice screen. Why the difference?"
I think the text can look a lot better with the right tweaks to the text rendering code, but either they tried and didn't get it right or they simply haven't created AMOLED-specific text rendering routines yet.
I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing this fuzzines of which ye speak.
I don't see the fuzzyness either.... and I got the best vision a human has... I read the bottom smallest lines at the eye doctor....
But whatever
Edit... after closely looking at it I see on the right of words a little fuzzy look, all I got to say is.... Bwahahahaha lame, I don't give a ****... nexus one is beautiful Lmaooo picky people...
Haters gonna hate.
This is so funny. I work in a design oriented field. While I do not plan on designing on the phone (probably would if the right apps come out!), I do use it to show and review design work. This phone does everything I need it to do. If it's good enough for me and my clients I'm guessing it is good enough for most. Hate on.
is it amoled or ?
it has a high-resolution capacitive touchscreen
dr154 said:
it has a high-resolution capacitive touchscreen
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That didn't answer his question.
I remember reading somewhere that it is LCD, unfortunately...
24-bit TFT, I think. AMOLED isn't necessarily the bee's knees, even though people like to use it as a buzz word.
I don't really care if it is AMOLED or not, but I like to know what sensor is used in the screen. As far as I know, the droid/milestone had a dual touch screen, and from videos I've seen it looks much less responsive as e.g. the full 16 touch multitouch on the Samsung Galaxy S.
I'm aware that this is not an issue for many people, and I'm not yet sure how important it is for me. But there seem to be differences in the different sensor technologies used, and I would like to know where the droid x stands.
e.g. this article claims that the sensor in the galaxy has a "response time of 7 milliseconds which is 2-3 times faster than current multi-touch displays.", and that it can recognise up to 16 different touches.
androidcommunity.com/samsung-galaxy-s-has-the-best-multi-touch-screen-ever-20100524/
yes but who has 16 fingers much less that you can fit on a 4 inch screen....
It's an IPS LCD like the original Droid.
It's a TFT screen. It says on the consumer site, near the bottom under "Physical". (Sorry, new to the site, can't post the active link)
motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/Mobile-Phones/ci.Motorola-DROID-X-US-EN.alt
Ryan Frawley said:
I remember reading somewhere that it is LCD, unfortunately...
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If it had amloed i wouldnt be getting it. I returned my incredible for this reason. Txt is blurry on amloled....i dont understand how people dont see its inferior.
suzook said:
If it had amloed i wouldnt be getting it. I returned my incredible for this reason. Txt is blurry on amloled....i dont understand how people dont see its inferior.
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I agree. I had an Incredible and the text was jagged. Not to mention AMOLED gets "burn-in" which means after a while the status bar will be permanently burned into the top of the screen. The colors are better, and the power draw is lower. Those are the only 2 advantages over LCD, ever where else they fall short.
The lagged text has something to do with how they make AMOLEDs. They use RGB like LCD for each pixel, but they only have 1 green per 2 pixels. So in effect its like the screen has less pixels over all.
More information on this here. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...exus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/
AMOLED is a buzz word. LCD work better in the sun and the text is more crisp.
Burn in will not be an issue on any phone. It's just like a TV. If you had say, some sort of icon constantly open on the screen in the exact same location for many hours continuously alright. But on a phone you rarely have anything open without changing for >6 hours anyway. and burn-in requires more than 6 hours, it only happens after usually a year or two of a TV displaying something static like a network logo.
Colors are much richer, but a bit less accurate. This isn't as crucial since you're on a phone and not exactly going for insane color accuracy, and lcd screens in general aren't extraordinarily accurate (seem to be either overly red or blue, or "warm" and "cool")
AMOLED also uses a LOT less power, and I really doubt you're going to see a huge difference in screen legibility in the sun.
(can't post links yet)
engadget.com/2010/06/21/super-amoled-vs-amoled-vs-lcd-in-direct-sunlight-fight/
engadget has a nice comparison video, all look pretty bad except for maybe the SAMOLED and the iphone 4 is apparently alright. then again, if you literally just shield it a bit with your body (turn away from the sun) all screens are fairly readable. The sun sucks, and screens universally suck in sun compared to indoors.
Last point: AMOLED is really awesome at night. The blacks are indeed REALLY black. So far nothing but the OLED displays can reach that level (since it is 100% black, no light is actually emitted, giving it theoretically infinite contrast ratio).
No need for sour grapes, there are no 4.3 inch OLED phones that I know of in the US anyway, and if you want a large screen the droid x will deliver.
I'd be more concerned about multitouch sensors that amoled vs LCD, those will make or break a phone, I hope motorola invested in some sensors similar to the evo/incredible.
winnernet5000 said:
you want a large screen the droid x will deliver.
I'd be more concerned about multitouch sensors that amoled vs LCD, those will make or break a phone, I hope motorola invested in some sensors similar to the evo/incredible.
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That's what I am worried about... I saw the video of the evo and incredible and the screen response issues.. it was pretty awful to say the least...
theineffablebob said:
It's an IPS LCD like the original Droid.
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Is that IPS like iPhone 4's S-IPS? I know the resolutions are different but is the tech otherwise the same? I've compared my Incredible to the iPhone 4 and I really didn't see a significant difference in color quality.
Droid X has a TFT LCD screen...
Droid Incredible has an AMOLED & STFT LCD screen...
First Droid Inc have the AMOLED and newer releases has STFT... mixture of both...
Touch Screen Sensor
Not sure the exact manufacturer or model, but I found a good test of the touch sensor / multitouch for the Droid X.
Youtube link: (apparently can't post outside link yet)
Google "DroidXMultitouchTest". 2nd link
Results look great. My last reservation is removed. By the way, there isn't a "hitch" like the guy says, it's the font and changing sides. That's why you don't see it in the second test.
Until we see Pixel Qi screens, it doesn't really matter. Pixel Qi is worlds better than any display available now, including the iPhone 4 and the Galaxy S. I'm hoping the rumored "display like you've never seen" comment from HTC is a smartphone with a Pixel Qi screen.
Watch this, a laptop with a Pixel Qi screen versus the iPad in bright sunlight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NotK4TVQ-6E
Edit: by the way, Pixel Qi screens can "turn off" but still display a grayscale image just like the e-ink technology on the Amazon Kindle. It's pure win. People are all excited about the 4G/LTE networks coming, but IMO, most people should be MORE excited for Pixel Qi displays in smartphones.
Roland Deschain said:
Pixel Qi displays in smartphones.
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im excited about both... 4g and pixel qi display...
I just looked at the Vibrant today. I am trying out the Sprint EVO and have not made up my mind (have 3 more weeks to decide). I have been very curious with all the hubub surrounding this new screen. "brilliant" "incredible" "vibrant" etc are terms that all the review sites are throwing around.
Now that I have seen it, it is true. The colors really pop. However, I am torn. On the one hand, S-AMOLED colors are very rich. It has better color saturation for video, and photos colors pop a bit more on the S-AMOLED vs the evo's LCD and the viewing angles are GREAT! There is almost no hazing effect when viewed from the side. WOW
On the other hand, even though both devices have 800x480 displays the text looks jagged on the Vibrant. Icons while very bright, do not look smooth. Very small text that is readable on the EVO is illegible on the Vibrant (for example viewing web pages zoomed all the way out). Pictures when viewed at the same zoom level look sharper and more detailed on the LCD screen. It appears that the actual resolution is less on the S-AMOLED than the TFT.
What is going on here? Why does it look this way. For me a large part of my phone is reading text, why does it appear more jagged and fuzzier? Does anyone have any insight?
Oh, and also the maximum brightness is lower on the Vibrant (not that I ever use max brightness) somehow whites look just a little dirty/grey in comparison.
Anyone have any insight into this resolution issue?
It's most likely a pentile screen...
Search for Arestechnica article about the issue with the Nexus one screen and the Pentile layout technology. In other words we're not getting "true" resolution where each pixel can display all 3 colors. I can't post links since I am a newb.
Interesting read...I only skimmed it. Kinda lame if you ask me. AMOLED has not shown to be battery saving enough for the technology to be useful in my opinion. Iphone 4 and Droid X as well as the EVO has shown LCD technology has shown there's still a lot to love about old tech.
http:// arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/secrets-of-the-nexus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/
Remove the space between the Http:// and the link for the Ars Technica Article about pentile displays.
VERY informative. Essentially each pixel in a pentile display is not capable of displaying all three Red Green and Blue colors. 3 sub pixels are combined from an array of RGB subpixles and processing is used to smooth it out. A pentile display used in AMOLED has an addressable resolution of 392x653.
from the article:
"you could think about this display as taking the 480x800 input image and scaling it down to 392x653 image, using subpixel positioning to reduce the apparent blurriness as much as possible."
That IS lame. This explains why it looks so much fuzzier.
Thanks.
Now the question is, is it worth the trade off for power efficiency and color saturation...? Hmmm
Ehh...I don't feel so envious towards those with the Super AMOLED screens all of a sudden. Sure my colors might not be as vibrant, but at least it's working the way it's supposed to .
^^haha yea agreed, its all hype.
I didn't read the article but isn't this partially to avoid screen burn in? I remember hearing AMOLED screens have problems with burn in.
It seems there's not enought AMOLED for everyone, so I guess the developer version of the Nexus One that is going to be sold soon will use this lcd?? Here's the press release:
HTC Introduces SLCD Display Technology To Its Portfolio
New Displays to be integrated into HTC Desire and Nexus One
Taoyuan, TAIWAN – July 26, 2010 – HTC Corporation, a global designer of smartphones, today introduced Super LCD display (SLCD) technology into a variety of HTC phones including the HTC Desire and global Nexus One later this summer. The SLCD display offers an exceptional natural balanced colour, clear contrast, broad viewing angles and improved power efficiency.
"HTC is experiencing high-demand for many of our phones, specifically our phones with 3.7 inch displays. The new SLCD display technology enables us to ramp up our production capabilities quickly to meet the high-demand," said Peter Chou, CEO of HTC Corporation. "The SLCD displays provide consumers with a comparable visual experience to HTC's current 3.7 inch displays with some additional benefits including battery performance."
SLCD is the latest generation of LCD technology that offers improved performance from earlier LCD panels including approximately five times better power management. SLCDs also offer an enhanced viewing experience with wider viewing angles that are enabled by Sony's new VSPEC III™ technology.
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Source: Engadget
Read between the lines. . . This is going to be a more efficient display unit, that is easily manufactured. I don't see anything involving the word "better".
Battery life is already impressive unless you use your Nexus for literally everything.
HighTech216 said:
Read between the lines. . . This is going to be a more efficient display unit, that is easily manufactured. I don't see anything involving the word "better".
Battery life is already impressive unless you use your Nexus for literally everything.
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I'm not saying it's better or worse. I'm just posting news. 0_o
maybe samsung just doesn't want to sell any to HTC.. is SLCD "comparable" to AMLCD or whatever used by iphone4..
I'm already thinking about selling my brand new Nexus One in order to get a new one with an SLCD screen.
Goodbye pentiles! Goodbye over saturation!
Hope Sony is NOT going the pentile matrix way, as this is not exclusive to amoleds...
i'm wondering whether the new screen uses a better digitizer for multi touch? a multi touch Vis test would be good on a Super LCD nexus one.
Shahpur.Azizpour said:
I'm already thinking about selling my brand new Nexus One in order to get a new one with an SLCD screen.
Goodbye pentiles! Goodbye over saturation!
Hope Sony is NOT going the pentile matrix way, as this is not exclusive to amoleds...
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what's wrong with pentiles? and why is over saturation not a good thing. it makes things look more vibrant and colorful?
stats101 said:
what's wrong with pentiles? and why is over saturation not a good thing. it makes things look more vibrant and colorful?
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The point is over saturation; ie: things look over saturated. However personally I have not found it to be a problem, and I typically notice these sorts of things being a photographer. But I have different devices for different scopes of work, and they don't all have to be equivalent. I don't have to have "the best" camera in my phone, my work monitor doesn't have to be perfectly calibrated (okay, so it is, I hate bad colours..)
And Pentile sucks. Everything looks dithered. I'm sure it's not exclusive to AMOLED but I can't imagine the purpose of it anywhere else? The main purpose, as I understand it, is to drive most of the luminance from the emitters which have longer life.
exactly. the point is that the colors on amoleds, especially reds and orange colors, are way too saturated. I hate the color reproduction on the nexus one.
And PenTiles are the WORST invention ever, the dithered look distracts the eyes, especially when reading a lot of text. The display is my main complaint woth the nexus one, other than that im completely happy. (ok the stock homescreens are laggy as hell even on android 2.2, but at least there are some replacement apps available).
khaytsus said:
The point is over saturation; ie: things look over saturated. However personally I have not found it to be a problem, and I typically notice these sorts of things being a photographer. But I have different devices for different scopes of work, and they don't all have to be equivalent. I don't have to have "the best" camera in my phone, my work monitor doesn't have to be perfectly calibrated (okay, so it is, I hate bad colours..)
And Pentile sucks. Everything looks dithered. I'm sure it's not exclusive to AMOLED but I can't imagine the purpose of it anywhere else? The main purpose, as I understand it, is to drive most of the luminance from the emitters which have longer life.
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If the SLCD is way better under sunlight I hope GoOgLe will give us the choice to replace the screen,this with better battery life will be exellent
I love my n1 and I like the AMOLED when I use it in the dark but I'd seriously consider getting the LCD version if they upgrade the touch sensor.
ChronoReverse said:
I love my n1 and I like the AMOLED when I use it in the dark but I'd seriously consider getting the LCD version if they upgrade the touch sensor.
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Has anyone heard word on whether the touch sensor is getting updated as well?
Shahpur.Azizpour said:
exactly. the point is that the colors on amoleds, especially reds and orange colors, are way too saturated. I hate the color reproduction on the nexus one.
And PenTiles are the WORST invention ever, the dithered look distracts the eyes, especially when reading a lot of text. The display is my main complaint woth the nexus one, other than that im completely happy. (ok the stock homescreens are laggy as hell even on android 2.2, but at least there are some replacement apps available).
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Agree with the PenTile display! For some reason so few people realize just how ****ty it is. I remember commenting on Engadget saying how ****ty it looks compared to my Touch Pro 2 and people just called me a troll even though I owned both devices.
My honest first opinion of my Nexus One after turning it on is "Wow, this screen sucks!" But I kept it despite its ****ty screen and lack of keyboard because I love my 1GHz processor.
Yea I'm curious how this will affect existing users. Sounds like they are trying to use cheaper screens to deepen their pockets, but I'm all for it if the quality is better or on par of our existing screens.... especially if it fixes the multitouch bugs.
if someone got a replacement Nexus One with Super LCD, then could you please test multi touch with MultiTouch Vis Test? thanks
petard said:
Agree with the PenTile display! For some reason so few people realize just how ****ty it is. I remember commenting on Engadget saying how ****ty it looks compared to my Touch Pro 2 and people just called me a troll even though I owned both devices.
My honest first opinion of my Nexus One after turning it on is "Wow, this screen sucks!" But I kept it despite its ****ty screen and lack of keyboard because I love my 1GHz processor.
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Yeah, sadly there are many people which don't see this problem and therefore it seems like this cheap approach is paying off for the manufacturers. Even the Touch Diamond 2 had a far better WVGA Display (LCD).
I also had an motorola milestone (droid) testdevice and the screen on the milestone just kills the n1 screen. I can literally read the text on fully zoomed out webpages on the milestone, while on the n1 i can't see the text clearly at all.
The problem is: People who never witnessed a better WVGA screen will be happy as the AMOLED Pentile screens are at least better then old HVGA screens. But anybody who got to experience WVGA on an LCD without Pentile Matrix garbage will know that the difference ist huge.
So would HTC potentially replace existing n1's displays with the SLCD if they are under warranty.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Lcd and digitizer are separate pieces of hardware, you won't be seeing it upgraded.
What is wrong with your guys that everything turns into a flame fest over something like a display???
Can't you read? The "marketing/promotional" release stated it is better. Therefore, it must be true
i would like to know how SLCD is more efficient battery power. did they mean more efficient over traditional LCD, or more efficient over AMOLED? i'm assuming over LCD.
i know the pentile problems and all, but i honestly still dont mind it. i've seen the EVO and droid and how crisp they look, but it just isnt a huge difference for me. i like the over saturate colors of amoled!
PenTile RGBW technology adds a white subpixel to the traditional red, blue, and green subpixels in a color display allowing a brighter display using less power.
The PenTile RGBW layout uses each red, green, blue and white subpixel to present high-resolution luminance information to the human eyes' red-sensing and green-sensing cone cells, while using the combined effect of all the color subpixels to present lower-resolution chroma (color) information to all three cone cell types.
Combined, this optimizes the match of display technology to the biological mechanisms of human vision. The layout uses one third fewer subpixels for the same resolution as the RGB Stripe (RGB-RGB) layout, in spite of having four color primaries instead of the conventional three, using subpixel rendering combined with metamer rendering. Metamer rendering optimizes the energy distribution between the white subpixel and the combined red, green, and blue subpixels: W <> RGB, to improve image sharpness.
The display driver chip has an RGB to RGBW color vector space converter and gamut mapping algorithm, followed by metamer and subpixel rendering algorithms. In order to maintain saturated color quality, to avoid simultaneous contrast error between saturated colors and peak white brightness, while simultaneously reducing backlight power requirements, the display backlight brightness is under control of the PenTile driver engine.
When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the Liquid Crystal Display levels are increased to compensate.
When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. Since most natural images and black on white text have few simultaneously bright and saturated colors, the average power of the PenTile RGBW panel is 50% less than a conventional RGB LCD.
Since the LCD backlight is the major power using component on many portable devices such as cell phones and personal media players, products that use the PenTile RGBW panel have appreciably longer battery life.
The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability.
The Motorola es400 and Motorola Atrix 4G cell phones use PenTile RGBW LCD displays.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
Not quite sure what the point of this thread is... all you did was copy and paste some info from wikipedia. I'm perfectly fine with the screen, though a lot of people seem upset. Those complaints seem to be slowing down at least. It's not the best screen, but it's perfectly fine to me for my phone. I'd be a bit more upset if all picture quality was messed up (both screen and via HDMI), but it looks perfectly fine on other screens.
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
Techcruncher said:
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
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what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
dLo GSR said:
what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
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Some of us have better vision than others.
I would gladly have paid more for anything that wasn't pentile. I try my best to ignore it, but it's so difficult when you can always see it.
..................
It might be a bit more power efficient but the yellows and oranges seriously look off and the greens like look a fly screen.
Also the pixel response rate is seriously bad, TONS of ghosting. This display really only works well with black text on a white background with not much animation.
Blind_Guardian said:
Some of us have better vision than others.
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I've had 20/20 all my life
dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
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Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read any of my posts in the main Pentile complaint thread, you'd know that I didn't even know the phone had a Pentile screen (or what that was for that matter) until after I got annoyed at the greens and yellows of the screen. It's ABSOLUTELY obvious that greens show jagged pixels, expecially when looking at thin greens (zoomed out text, lines, etc) and that yellows are more of a squash color. That was the first thing I noticed when zooming through some sites and playing Angry Birds (having played it on my iPod touch many times before). I then came on this site and read Anandtech's review and found out what a Pentile was.
If you can't tell the difference or shortcomings of a Pentile dispaly vs. a similarly dense display (i.e. the Retina) I can't point to anything else but denial. The screen is nice, but not that nice.
On an unrelated side note, I work in engineering for the modules that guide your fighter jets when you need to see without your eyes. I do wish I could take a ride in one though.
Atrix screen and HDMI sample videos
Last night I went to a concert and taped the show. The screen remained on for the entire 2 hours and still had 70% battery power left. If I were on my previous Captivate it would not have lasted 2 hours. It would seem the same people unhappy with the Atrix screen would be unhappy with the battery life if the Atrix had a different screen. I have posted this before: the Atrix screen is perfectly fine, even better than fine considering its efficiency. I have several hi res (720p) movies that look absolutely wonderful on the Atrix. Colors and resolution look beautiful. The colors do not have the super saturation of the Captivate, but still perfectly fine. Motorola should have provided some sample videos, but they didn't.
I was in the AT&T store playing around with the docks. There are 4 720p sample videos on the phone apparently only available thru HDMI. If someone could post those videos here so we can all have a look at them that may help quiet the screen concerns.
dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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Click to collapse
It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
kkeo said:
It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
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I don't disagree with that, but when you look at green text there us definitely a difference vs other colors.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Techcruncher said:
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
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aside from the iphone 4 which ofcourse has a better screen..
why would i want to go with an atrix screen and not a super amoled screen if i can see the pixels on both screens. yet the super amoled has better blacks and better colors in general ?
mind you i have used all phones including the atrix " even though it was a short period of time "
I am happy with the screen. It is not perfect, but then it is a mobile phone.
If i want awesome colors and deep blacks I have a rockin' 54" plasma. If I want super clear high resolution fonts, I got a great monitor.
I will trade a perfect phone screen for better battery any day. And for me, this pentile display is damn near perfect.
Blind_Guardian said:
Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
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Click to collapse
Lol nice one or maybe he is hypnotizing himself that the Pentile display is acceptable because he doesn't want to go through the trouble of returning the dual core webtop phone LOL :-D
But seriously SUPER AMOLED screen has very vibrant color which I actually like but the battery life is bad for web browsing. I wish they have sepcial designed webpage viewer to create black background and white text for SUPER AMOLED screen to conserve battery life.
Finally, I think I've gotten used to the Pentile screen color. Its not really good bit at least its acceptable eventhough the color are distorted and not sure if software can solve the color issue.
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So, everyone is complaining about the Atrix display? What about the cellphones dating back from the 1990's? I bet the display was pretty ****ty too. Oh wait, i dont see anyone complaining. Did any of you know about Pentile display back then? NO!?
Please spare us the comparison of what display is better etc..
Here is an idea. Why dont the rest of the ppl who complain about Pentile/SAMOLED etc..invent your own display? simple as that.
You dont like the display on the phone, DONT BUY IT! Stop whining about it.