PenTile RGBW technology adds a white subpixel to the traditional red, blue, and green subpixels in a color display allowing a brighter display using less power.
The PenTile RGBW layout uses each red, green, blue and white subpixel to present high-resolution luminance information to the human eyes' red-sensing and green-sensing cone cells, while using the combined effect of all the color subpixels to present lower-resolution chroma (color) information to all three cone cell types.
Combined, this optimizes the match of display technology to the biological mechanisms of human vision. The layout uses one third fewer subpixels for the same resolution as the RGB Stripe (RGB-RGB) layout, in spite of having four color primaries instead of the conventional three, using subpixel rendering combined with metamer rendering. Metamer rendering optimizes the energy distribution between the white subpixel and the combined red, green, and blue subpixels: W <> RGB, to improve image sharpness.
The display driver chip has an RGB to RGBW color vector space converter and gamut mapping algorithm, followed by metamer and subpixel rendering algorithms. In order to maintain saturated color quality, to avoid simultaneous contrast error between saturated colors and peak white brightness, while simultaneously reducing backlight power requirements, the display backlight brightness is under control of the PenTile driver engine.
When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the Liquid Crystal Display levels are increased to compensate.
When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. Since most natural images and black on white text have few simultaneously bright and saturated colors, the average power of the PenTile RGBW panel is 50% less than a conventional RGB LCD.
Since the LCD backlight is the major power using component on many portable devices such as cell phones and personal media players, products that use the PenTile RGBW panel have appreciably longer battery life.
The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability.
The Motorola es400 and Motorola Atrix 4G cell phones use PenTile RGBW LCD displays.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
Not quite sure what the point of this thread is... all you did was copy and paste some info from wikipedia. I'm perfectly fine with the screen, though a lot of people seem upset. Those complaints seem to be slowing down at least. It's not the best screen, but it's perfectly fine to me for my phone. I'd be a bit more upset if all picture quality was messed up (both screen and via HDMI), but it looks perfectly fine on other screens.
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
Techcruncher said:
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
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Click to collapse
what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
dLo GSR said:
what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
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Some of us have better vision than others.
I would gladly have paid more for anything that wasn't pentile. I try my best to ignore it, but it's so difficult when you can always see it.
..................
It might be a bit more power efficient but the yellows and oranges seriously look off and the greens like look a fly screen.
Also the pixel response rate is seriously bad, TONS of ghosting. This display really only works well with black text on a white background with not much animation.
Blind_Guardian said:
Some of us have better vision than others.
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I've had 20/20 all my life
dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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Click to collapse
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
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Click to collapse
Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read any of my posts in the main Pentile complaint thread, you'd know that I didn't even know the phone had a Pentile screen (or what that was for that matter) until after I got annoyed at the greens and yellows of the screen. It's ABSOLUTELY obvious that greens show jagged pixels, expecially when looking at thin greens (zoomed out text, lines, etc) and that yellows are more of a squash color. That was the first thing I noticed when zooming through some sites and playing Angry Birds (having played it on my iPod touch many times before). I then came on this site and read Anandtech's review and found out what a Pentile was.
If you can't tell the difference or shortcomings of a Pentile dispaly vs. a similarly dense display (i.e. the Retina) I can't point to anything else but denial. The screen is nice, but not that nice.
On an unrelated side note, I work in engineering for the modules that guide your fighter jets when you need to see without your eyes. I do wish I could take a ride in one though.
Atrix screen and HDMI sample videos
Last night I went to a concert and taped the show. The screen remained on for the entire 2 hours and still had 70% battery power left. If I were on my previous Captivate it would not have lasted 2 hours. It would seem the same people unhappy with the Atrix screen would be unhappy with the battery life if the Atrix had a different screen. I have posted this before: the Atrix screen is perfectly fine, even better than fine considering its efficiency. I have several hi res (720p) movies that look absolutely wonderful on the Atrix. Colors and resolution look beautiful. The colors do not have the super saturation of the Captivate, but still perfectly fine. Motorola should have provided some sample videos, but they didn't.
I was in the AT&T store playing around with the docks. There are 4 720p sample videos on the phone apparently only available thru HDMI. If someone could post those videos here so we can all have a look at them that may help quiet the screen concerns.
dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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Click to collapse
It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
kkeo said:
It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
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I don't disagree with that, but when you look at green text there us definitely a difference vs other colors.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
Techcruncher said:
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
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Click to collapse
aside from the iphone 4 which ofcourse has a better screen..
why would i want to go with an atrix screen and not a super amoled screen if i can see the pixels on both screens. yet the super amoled has better blacks and better colors in general ?
mind you i have used all phones including the atrix " even though it was a short period of time "
I am happy with the screen. It is not perfect, but then it is a mobile phone.
If i want awesome colors and deep blacks I have a rockin' 54" plasma. If I want super clear high resolution fonts, I got a great monitor.
I will trade a perfect phone screen for better battery any day. And for me, this pentile display is damn near perfect.
Blind_Guardian said:
Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
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Click to collapse
Lol nice one or maybe he is hypnotizing himself that the Pentile display is acceptable because he doesn't want to go through the trouble of returning the dual core webtop phone LOL :-D
But seriously SUPER AMOLED screen has very vibrant color which I actually like but the battery life is bad for web browsing. I wish they have sepcial designed webpage viewer to create black background and white text for SUPER AMOLED screen to conserve battery life.
Finally, I think I've gotten used to the Pentile screen color. Its not really good bit at least its acceptable eventhough the color are distorted and not sure if software can solve the color issue.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App
So, everyone is complaining about the Atrix display? What about the cellphones dating back from the 1990's? I bet the display was pretty ****ty too. Oh wait, i dont see anyone complaining. Did any of you know about Pentile display back then? NO!?
Please spare us the comparison of what display is better etc..
Here is an idea. Why dont the rest of the ppl who complain about Pentile/SAMOLED etc..invent your own display? simple as that.
You dont like the display on the phone, DONT BUY IT! Stop whining about it.
Related
The one thing I wish the EVO had going for it is an AMOLED screen. I'm coming from a Nexus one with said screen, and it's gorgeous. Almost useless in direct sunlight, but gorgeous. Now their was an early Sprint ?Coming Soon site claiming the phone had an AMOLED screen http://www.androidguys.com/2010/03/28/sprints-htc-evo-4git-sizzles/ ---but this was prob an error. My question is: is their a huge, noticeable, difference in the two types of screens? EVO owners, give me your opinions!
thefoss said:
The one thing I wish the EVO had going for it is an AMOLED screen. I'm coming from a Nexus one with said screen, and it's gorgeous. Almost useless in direct sunlight, but gorgeous. Now their was an early Sprint ?Coming Soon site claiming the phone had an AMOLED screen http://www.androidguys.com/2010/03/28/sprints-htc-evo-4git-sizzles/ ---but this was prob an error. My question is: is their a huge, noticeable, difference in the two types of screens? EVO owners, give me your opinions!
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Click to collapse
Just had a live evo in my hands, and the screen is a beaut. I wouldnt worry about it not being AMOLED at all.
The screen is really a great screen.
I really don't notice much of a difference in colors / contrast / etc when compared to the ZuneHD, maybe it's the higher resolution / size that makes it look just as good.
meh, on the whole, AMOLED is all hype no show
AMOLED is trash I have a Nexus and an Evo and in direct sunlight my EVO is noticeable, AMOLED drains battery, LCD saves, colors are sharper but not brighter on AMOLED, brightness all the way up they both match up but the nexus(AMOLED) has a sharper scene
all in all not a big differ and Evo screen (IMO) has a better screen
1- colors are the same but sharper in AMOLED
2- direct sunlight LCD wins
3- colors are both bright
4- LCD battery saver
just a few details!
I thought that the amoled was more efficient.. so better than lcd
????
Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk
Dan330 said:
I thought that the amoled was more efficient.. so better than lcd
????
Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not, uses more battery
Phone Scoop comparesEvo screen to Nexus One Amoled
See below for review comparing the Evo screen to the Nexus One Amoled
Here is the link to the full article.
http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=373&p=2666
Screen
The screen on the HTC Evo 4G was, at times, a bit disappointing. Under medium indoor light, the screen is crisp and clear. Text looks sharp and legible and the dark, contrasty interface looks polished. Outside, the Evo 4G couldn't hold up to bright daylight. This made it tough to use for normal email and calling tasks, and nearly impossible to use the camera, since you have to tap an onscreen button to take a shot. In almost every way, the screen fared better than the AMOLED display on the smaller Nexus One. It was a bit brighter with warmer colors and much better outdoor performance. But it could still stand some improvement.
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SoFarGone said:
its not, uses more battery
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Click to collapse
Incorrect, AMOLED has no back light and consumes roughly the same power that a TFT LCD uses just on the TFT portion of the screen. The TFT Portion of a Active Matrix OLED screen controls light on a PerPixel basis, illuminating each OLED pixel at whatever color is required vs LCD where the current is constantly on(except in a pure 0 0 0 black pixel) and controlling the Liquid Crystal portion rotating the LC to whatever degree to allow the backlight(A large % of the consumption) to shine through at a given color. And because of AMOLEDs aforementioned lack of back light it uses significantly less power.
I'm also confused as to what you mean by "color sharpness" Are you talking about the actual edge sharpness of an image or the color reproduction.
In which case the color reproduction on a AMOLED is more SATURATED not specifically more accurate, though the increased saturation makes the image appear better on average because most people enjoy over saturated images. The contrast ratio, which is the ratio of black to white, e.g. when a TV says it has a 3,500:1 contrast ratio then the luminance of a pure white pixel 255,255,255 is 3,500 times higher than that of a pure black 0,0,0 pixel. AMOLED displayes typically have a much higher contrast ratio due to the lack of a back light and the fact they can produce much "deeper" black pixels.
AMOLED actually bugs me, not only are they useless in direct sunlight(which I find myself under quite often) but it feels like colors are often OVER saturated, like the reds and oranges on my friend's Incredible look awful while I've never had that with my Hero, some colors on mine might be washed out but I'd rather have that than have a giant hodgepodge of colors on an AMOLED.
Another thing to consider is AMOLEDs "burn in". That means that pixels that do not change on the screen for a long time tend to burn in and show permanent shadows. This happens on the status bar a lot since it is nearly always displayed and unchanging.
Here is a thread of NexusOne owners documenting it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=673513
As of last week I just switch over from At&t to Sprint wireless. I had two lines on my contract, wifey with the Samsung Moment and myself with the HTC Hero just to hold me off until the Evo release.
From what I thought isn't the Samsung Moment screen also uses the Amoled technology and the Hero is LCD?
Side by side comparison from low brightness to 100 percent, the Hero display looks so much better quality wise compare to the Moment. Hero seem more saturated and crisp whereas the Moment IMO seem much more dulled. Especially in the setting menu with the black background, the Moment is kind of like greenish black whereas the Hero is spot on black. Outside I'm having a very difficulty time navigating around Moment (brightness all the way up) whereas the Hero is still manageable.
By any mean I'm no expert in this display stuff but this is just my own little comparison of what I've seen between the two display.
Anyone know if the Evo screen is transreflective? A related question would be, is it even possible for AMOLED to be transreflective?
I compared my Evo screen with my old Hero screen and the Hero was a little brighter and with darker blacks. Even between LCDs there are differences.
I just looked at the Vibrant today. I am trying out the Sprint EVO and have not made up my mind (have 3 more weeks to decide). I have been very curious with all the hubub surrounding this new screen. "brilliant" "incredible" "vibrant" etc are terms that all the review sites are throwing around.
Now that I have seen it, it is true. The colors really pop. However, I am torn. On the one hand, S-AMOLED colors are very rich. It has better color saturation for video, and photos colors pop a bit more on the S-AMOLED vs the evo's LCD and the viewing angles are GREAT! There is almost no hazing effect when viewed from the side. WOW
On the other hand, even though both devices have 800x480 displays the text looks jagged on the Vibrant. Icons while very bright, do not look smooth. Very small text that is readable on the EVO is illegible on the Vibrant (for example viewing web pages zoomed all the way out). Pictures when viewed at the same zoom level look sharper and more detailed on the LCD screen. It appears that the actual resolution is less on the S-AMOLED than the TFT.
What is going on here? Why does it look this way. For me a large part of my phone is reading text, why does it appear more jagged and fuzzier? Does anyone have any insight?
Oh, and also the maximum brightness is lower on the Vibrant (not that I ever use max brightness) somehow whites look just a little dirty/grey in comparison.
Anyone have any insight into this resolution issue?
It's most likely a pentile screen...
Search for Arestechnica article about the issue with the Nexus one screen and the Pentile layout technology. In other words we're not getting "true" resolution where each pixel can display all 3 colors. I can't post links since I am a newb.
Interesting read...I only skimmed it. Kinda lame if you ask me. AMOLED has not shown to be battery saving enough for the technology to be useful in my opinion. Iphone 4 and Droid X as well as the EVO has shown LCD technology has shown there's still a lot to love about old tech.
http:// arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/secrets-of-the-nexus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/
Remove the space between the Http:// and the link for the Ars Technica Article about pentile displays.
VERY informative. Essentially each pixel in a pentile display is not capable of displaying all three Red Green and Blue colors. 3 sub pixels are combined from an array of RGB subpixles and processing is used to smooth it out. A pentile display used in AMOLED has an addressable resolution of 392x653.
from the article:
"you could think about this display as taking the 480x800 input image and scaling it down to 392x653 image, using subpixel positioning to reduce the apparent blurriness as much as possible."
That IS lame. This explains why it looks so much fuzzier.
Thanks.
Now the question is, is it worth the trade off for power efficiency and color saturation...? Hmmm
Ehh...I don't feel so envious towards those with the Super AMOLED screens all of a sudden. Sure my colors might not be as vibrant, but at least it's working the way it's supposed to .
^^haha yea agreed, its all hype.
I didn't read the article but isn't this partially to avoid screen burn in? I remember hearing AMOLED screens have problems with burn in.
I keep hearing everyone go on about Pentile is crap, etc. Then I hear that all AMOLED screens use Pentile Matrix rendering (Galaxy S, Nexus, etc). Also the pentile tech is also made by Samsung from my understanding. So why does everyone consider our Pentile TFT qHD Res 24-bit color screen crap on these fourms (other forums now too)? Especially when EVERY review I have seen online about our screens have gotten nothing but good ratings, and say it is almost as good as the iphone 4 IPS LCD screen (minus the pixel density 920x540 4" vs 920x640 3.5"). I think it is crap we have the highest res screen android phone ever and we are not getting atleast some credit.
Not really sure if there is a question in there. But Anandtech does a good explanation of the Pentile display including the pros and cons:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4165/the-motorola-atrix-4g-preview/4
In the end the decision is an objective one. Some people don't notice the difference and some people can't stop noticing the difference.
I am sure there will be numerous posts after mine complaining about the pentile display. But the only thing that matters is how the screen looks to you. Beyond that it is only a philosophical argument.
rex-tc said:
I think it is crap we have the highest res screen android phone ever and we are not getting atleast some credit.
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Click to collapse
Meizu M9 is the android phone with highest res.
Besides, the SGS2 screen dominates the Atrix screen.
Gr1peN said:
Meizu M9 is the android phone with highest res.
Besides, the SGS2 screen dominates the Atrix screen.
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Click to collapse
OK besides CHINA we have the highest res screen. Plus I don't think the SGS2 screen is any better it is even more oversaturated than the original SGS. On top of that they went with even less pixel density than the first... No thanks.
krkeegan said:
Not really sure if there is a question in there. But Anandtech does a good explanation of the Pentile display including the pros and cons:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4165/the-motorola-atrix-4g-preview/4
In the end the decision is an objective one. Some people don't notice the difference and some people can't stop noticing the difference.
I am sure there will be numerous posts after mine complaining about the pentile display. But the only thing that matters is how the screen looks to you. Beyond that it is only a philosophical argument.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess my question is why is the Pentile LCD getting knocked but PENTILE AMOLED is not? Both have the same flaws and advantages.
rex-tc said:
I guess my question is why is the Pentile LCD getting knocked but PENTILE AMOLED is not? Both have the same flaws and advantages.
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Click to collapse
Because people (Especially with phones for some reason) like to hop on bandwagons and have no idea what they're talking about.
Personally love the diplay on the Atrix but human nature requires some to nitpick. Prospective buyers should inform themselves of the display tech, but also that it is an excellent display that will only get a small but vocal minority bent.
krkeegan said:
Not really sure if there is a question in there. But Anandtech does a good explanation of the Pentile display including the pros and cons:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4165/the-motorola-atrix-4g-preview/4
In the end the decision is an objective one. Some people don't notice the difference and some people can't stop noticing the difference.
I am sure there will be numerous posts after mine complaining about the pentile display. But the only thing that matters is how the screen looks to you. Beyond that it is only a philosophical argument.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you completely.
The Atrix 4G, with the Pentile screen, is still considerably higher in perceivable resolution than 800x480. And that's just my opinion.
I won't deny the Galaxy S have really nice colors, but they are oversaturdated.
The extra resolution in a practical sense has been more useful to me in web browsing and other activities than the LSD colors of my Captivate.
As someone poinedt out, it's a personal preference. I have a friend that would rather wait for Super AMOLED Plus but I find the Atrix to be an excellent phone and an improvement in all categories despite some legitimate complaints about upload speed that is the fault of AT&T.
-James
SAMOLED is pentile RGBG
Atrix is pentile RGBW
so the subpixels in the atrix are white...
I don't know the entire technicalities but I know that is the DIFFERENCE...
I love The screen. doesn't bother me a bit. I like CRISP over SATURATED, although I'm not knocking the SAMOLED screens either, as they are nice in their own right.
shea-bird said:
SAMOLED is pentile RGBG
Atrix is pentile RGBW
so the subpixels in the atrix are white...
I don't know the entire technicalities but I know that is the DIFFERENCE...
I love The screen. doesn't bother me a bit. I like CRISP over SATURATED, although I'm not knocking the SAMOLED screens either, as they are nice in their own right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya I found a little bit more about that....
"PenTile RGBW technology adds a white subpixel to the traditional red, blue, and green subpixels in a color display allowing a brighter display using less power. ... When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the Liquid Crystal Display levels are increased to compensate. When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. Since most natural images and black on white text have few simultaneously bright and saturated colors, the average power of the PenTile RGBW panel is 50% less than a conventional RGB LCD. Since the LCD backlight is the major power using component on many portable devices ... products that use the PenTile RGBW panel have appreciably longer battery life. The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability. "
To me it sounds instead of just RGB of tradition LCD screens we have a white subpixel also. Which increases brightness at half the power.
Man I swear these fanboys acting like we were getting some inferior screen when all along it was an UPRGADE
Plus Moto should of put some marketing scheme on it's name like. SUPER TFT LCD SCREEN QHD 24-BIT EXTREME. Then all of the fanboys would of went NUTS for it.
the simple solution is to try the phone out and see whether it meets your needs or not. at least that's how I see the 30 day love it or leave it trial period. let your own eyes be the judge, and then decide which pros and cons you can happily live with. The Atrix is a wonderful device,and I believe it will only get better with time. it was simply overkill for me, and at the ripe old age of 43 the bigger screen on the Inpire is easier to read lol.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
I don't know or care about the technical aspects of pentile displays, but I do know what my eyes see. If I zoom in on a 5 or 6 megapixel photo with my Samsung Captivate, the photo pixelates badly. If I do the same thing with my Atrix the photo stays sharp and clear. The Iphone 4 I returned TWICE, kept the same sharpness and clarity.
The auto settings on the Atrix and the HTC Inspire are terrible, take your camera off of automatic and it will take better pics.
rex-tc said:
Ya I found a little bit more about that....
"PenTile RGBW technology adds a white subpixel to the traditional red, blue, and green subpixels in a color display allowing a brighter display using less power. ... When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the Liquid Crystal Display levels are increased to compensate. When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. Since most natural images and black on white text have few simultaneously bright and saturated colors, the average power of the PenTile RGBW panel is 50% less than a conventional RGB LCD. Since the LCD backlight is the major power using component on many portable devices ... products that use the PenTile RGBW panel have appreciably longer battery life. The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability. "
To me it sounds instead of just RGB of tradition LCD screens we have a white subpixel also. Which increases brightness at half the power.
Man I swear these fanboys acting like we were getting some inferior screen when all along it was an UPRGADE
Plus Moto should of put some marketing scheme on it's name like. SUPER TFT LCD SCREEN QHD 24-BIT EXTREME. Then all of the fanboys would of went NUTS for it.
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Click to collapse
thanks cause of this i changed my wallpaper to completely white background ill see if it improves battery life
When the galaxy s came out, the deal breaker for me was the screen.
Before I knew what a pentile matrix was I noticed it without trying, and it bugs me a lot.
I have been using mine for a few days now and love the clarity of the screen. The only problem for me is that when reading on it for extended times, such as using xda, I start to develop headaches? Really odd and I thought it would just be a short adjustment but after three straight evenings I am beginning to wonder.
I wondered the exact same thing OP. I'm in the market for an atrix and I've been trolling the forums for a while to get a feel of user feedback.
It really seems like people are complaining about the pentile display on the atrix but all current SAMOLEDS have the exact same problem.
The pentile matrix is only fixed on the new SAMOLED plus on the SG2 , so until then I'm not sure why people keep knocking the pentile display on the atrix when comparing it to other current gen phones like the Nexus S and captivate.
Just my 2 cents
I find the screen on the Atrix to be very crisp and clear. Can I see a pixel or two? Honestly I dunno because I don't search for pixels on a phone screen. Gaming and text are both excellent.
I find that people complain too much. They also will read somewhere that "pentile sucks" so they start saying "fail, Pentile sucks". There would be much less drama on forums and blogs if people would just try a product and form their own opinions instead just blindly following a reviewer or commenter.
Gr1peN said:
Besides, the SGS2 screen dominates the Atrix screen.
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With a 4.3" SAMOLED Plus display.... expect battery life close to 1-hr of 3G web browsing.
TareX said:
With a 4.3" SAMOLED Plus display.... expect battery life close to 1-hr of 3G web browsing.
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To say nothing of the fact that the GPS won't work and you'll never see updates
Today I showed the screen of my galaxy s II to my iphone4 owning friend. We both loaded up bbc home page, and the white background on his phone looked much better than on my phone.
On my phone the white background looked cream in colour, where as his displayed as pure white.
Will this be able to be fixed with vodoo colour?
It can be helped with Voodoo color, but it can never look like an LCD based display since SAMOLED screens don't have the LED backlight in the back. And also, an iPhone 4's display has already been proven to be a bit blue tinted which makes whites look brighter when they're actually a slight shade of blue. I've spent a lot of time calibrating my Nexus S screen with Voodoo color and I can safely say the result is a more pleasant shade of white than my friend's iPhone 4. Also with Voodoo color I can boost the brightness higher than what the stock specifications permit so it's even a brighter white than the iPhone 4's if I want it to be, but it consumes a LOT of power.
Dannyboyni said:
Today I showed the screen of my galaxy s II to my iphone4 owning friend. We both loaded up bbc home page, and the white background on his phone looked much better than on my phone.
On my phone the white background looked cream in colour, where as his displayed as pure white.
Will this be able to be fixed with vodoo colour?
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Cream? Really? http://amishlandofct.com/resources/color+cream.jpg
At any rate - yes, voodoo colour can change the colour temperature.
Dannyboyni said:
Today I showed the screen of my galaxy s II to my iphone4 owning friend. We both loaded up bbc home page, and the white background on his phone looked much better than on my phone.
On my phone the white background looked cream in colour, where as his displayed as pure white.
Will this be able to be fixed with vodoo colour?
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the nature of LCD and OLED makes the colors differ here in America. It also makes the colours differ in England and most of its former colonies.
You can try setting the separate brightness setting in the browser settings to 100% (it is separate from general brightness setting in the phone settings).
I bet it would still have a different hue if you look at them side by side.
You can also try taking a friend with an iP4 that is a year old to a store that sells iP4 now, and compare how they look - you will probably see some difference there too, side by side.
He was saying to me, "oh your screen tech hasn't evolved yet, you cant display proper white", haha, "my text is so much sharper than yours".
It was true about the text, my heart sank when I compared BBC homepage in portrait mode. His text looked MUCH sharper than mines. But then he has got a much higher resolution.
I really did feel humiliated, I just want nice pure white like the iphone4 has. I know I don't have a backlight.
RyanZA said:
Cream? Really? http://amishlandofct.com/resources/color+cream.jpg
At any rate - yes, voodoo colour can change the colour temperature.
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that is a freaking picture of some fabric, right??? because I got scared thinking my laptop LCD is showing banding on cream color.
Haha... I guess the only difference between boys and men are the price of their toys huh?
If you want to humiliate him, ask him to show you a black image. Then laugh at how much light leakage he has. Then play a high quality youtube clip like a movie trailer with some action scenes, then laugh at how slow his pixel response is (ghosting). Also while you're trying to play a high quality youtube clip... remind him that he needs to be on wifi in order to do it because he only gets low quality over 3G =)
Trust me I'd take the SAMOLED over an LCD display any day. Same reason I have a plasma TV and not an LCD/LED one.
Dannyboyni said:
He was saying to me, "oh your screen tech hasn't evolved yet, you cant display proper white", haha, "my text is so much sharper than yours".
It was true about the text, my heart sank when I compared BBC homepage in portrait mode. His text looked MUCH sharper than mines. But then he has got a much higher resolution.
I really did feel humiliated, I just want nice pure white like the iphone4 has. I know I don't have a backlight.
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dinan said:
Haha... I guess the only difference between boys and men are the price of their toys huh?
If you want to humiliate him, ask him to show you a black image. Then laugh at how much light leakage he has. Then play a high quality youtube clip like a movie trailer with some action scenes, then laugh at how slow his pixel response is (ghosting). Also while you're trying to play a high quality youtube clip... remind him that he needs to be on wifi in order to do it because he only gets low quality over 3G =)
Trust me I'd take the SAMOLED over an LCD display any day. Same reason I have a plasma TV and not an LCD/LED one.
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What, because you prefer an inferior picture quality? There is a reason the big manufacturers are phasing out plasma.
dinan said:
Haha... I guess the only difference between boys and men are the price of their toys huh?
If you want to humiliate him, ask him to show you a black image. Then laugh at how much light leakage he has. Then play a high quality youtube clip like a movie trailer with some action scenes, then laugh at how slow his pixel response is (ghosting). Also while you're trying to play a high quality youtube clip... remind him that he needs to be on wifi in order to do it because he only gets low quality over 3G =)
Trust me I'd take the SAMOLED over an LCD display any day. Same reason I have a plasma TV and not an LCD/LED one.
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I second this.
Why didn't you test the black on both screens too?
Iphone4 does have a higher resolution, so it's silly to go comparing that, since it's a known fact.
dinan said:
Trust me I'd take the SAMOLED over an LCD display any day. Same reason I have a plasma TV and not an LCD/LED one.
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I would go one step further: comparing SGS2 screen to iP4 screen is like sitting on a coach 15 feet from TV and comparing a fine 480P 37 inch plasma TV with a "finer" 4K 32 inch LCD TV
Pagnell said:
What, because you prefer an inferior picture quality? There is a reason the big manufacturers are phasing out plasma.
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They are phasing out plasmas because they are more expensive, eat more power , are harder to make, and can't compete with LCDs in price.
Real video buffs still prefer Plasma for its true blacks and great refresh rates.
I'm not gonna let this get into a TV debate but it's well known videophiles and avid cinema/sports watchers will always choose a plasma TV over an LCD because of the purer blacks and insanely faster pixel response (no ghosting like an LCD/LED). The mere fact that LCD/LED TVs even have to QUOTE a pixel response time indicates an inferiority.
And this also carries through to phones. If you don't believe me, try it. Pick up any HTC phone and compare it to any Galaxy phone. Go to a black menu with white text... perhaps the settings menu and scroll up and down. You'll notice MASSIVE text ghosting on the HTC LCD screens but none on the SAMOLED screen. Please, don't come back claiming things you haven't tested yourself with no facts to back it up.
Pagnell said:
What, because you prefer an inferior picture quality? There is a reason the big manufacturers are phasing out plasma.
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kreoXDA said:
They are phasing out plasmas because they are more expensive, eat more power , are harder to make, and can't compete with LCDs in price.
Real video buffs still prefer Plasma for its true blacks and great refresh rates.
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Real buffs prefer high quality LED panels, plasma simply can't compete with the definition even if fast moving imagery is sometimes better. And I know this as someone who has owned high quality sets of every type.
Plasma's days were numbered as soon as it's monopoly on extra large panels ceased to exist thanks to LCD and then LED technology allowing 42" and above panels to be financially and technically viable with no loss of quality.
Still, we can agree to differ on all that if you wish.
dinan said:
And this also carries through to phones. If you don't believe me, try it. Pick up any HTC phone and compare it to any Galaxy phone. Go to a black menu with white text... perhaps the settings menu and scroll up and down. You'll notice MASSIVE text ghosting on the HTC LCD screens but none on the SAMOLED screen. Please, don't come back claiming things you haven't tested yourself with no facts to back it up.
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I fail to see where the comparison between SAMOLED and LCD is relevant to a comparison between LCD/LED and plasma.
Oh, and I have tested myself.
What do you mean with "pure white"? To me it sounds like iphone has colder color temperature, that is not better, just different. In fact that would give less natural colors.
Try to change color temperature on your pc monitor to understand what I mean, a warm temperature of 6500K is more creamish than a cold temperature of let's say 9000K.
Pagnell said:
Real buffs prefer high quality LED panels...
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I hope you do realize LED is just another type of backlight for same LCD screen, and it not always makes that same LCD produce truer blacks, and it does not do a thing to refresh rates.
dinan said:
I'm not gonna let this get into a TV debate ...
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What he said. I am done.
kreoXDA said:
I hope you do realize LED is just another type of backlight for same LCD screen, and it not always makes that same LCD produce truer blacks, and it does not do a thing to refresh rates.
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Obviously, I'm well aware of the technicalities of all current TV technology or I wouldn't be entering a debate about it.
Anyway, agree to differ and move on, as said derailing this thread is pointless.
Ask him to play a flash video from the browser And it is true the iphone's display is fairly impressive but I prefer the bright colors, larger size, and better power consumption of the SAMOLED+
Are you aware that the GS2 screen has 2 different brightness settings? It has the normal brightness, but lower down the menu it has a setting 'Auto adjust screen power' This actually dulls whites when there is a lot of white on the screen to reduce power use. If you untick it the screen is a lot more pure white.
Oh and on the subject of TV screens plasmas are getting a boost from 3D. 3D plasmas are much better than LED/LCD because of their reaction times. Much much less ghosting and as a result deeper 3D effect. A full HD plasma is still the best screen there is right now. Much less harsh than an LCD, better blacks, more realistic colours and less intense whites.
Dannyboyni said:
He was saying to me, "oh your screen tech hasn't evolved yet, you cant display proper white", haha, "my text is so much sharper than yours".
It was true about the text, my heart sank when I compared BBC homepage in portrait mode. His text looked MUCH sharper than mines. But then he has got a much higher resolution.
I really did feel humiliated, I just want nice pure white like the iphone4 has. I know I don't have a backlight.
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Who cares about which screen displaying bbc has better white. This baby has everything, 1080p, bluetooth 3.0, wireless n, hspa+, dual core, android (!), better battery and I think the samoled+ can display colours much better. Also no gay itunes and you do not need to jailbreak your iPhone (which makes the iPhone instable and ****) to just get freedom
Edit: forget about these things
4.3" screen, 9mm thick, 116g, micro sd slot and more.. seriously that phone rapes the iPhone
Dannyboyni said:
He was saying to me, "oh your screen tech hasn't evolved yet, you cant display proper white", haha, "my text is so much sharper than yours".
It was true about the text, my heart sank when I compared BBC homepage in portrait mode. His text looked MUCH sharper than mines. But then he has got a much higher resolution.
I really did feel humiliated, I just want nice pure white like the iphone4 has. I know I don't have a backlight.
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funny that you fall for that
put his iphone in the sun and say "whats white good for if you can't see anything?"
they're different techs. besides, true white is subjective. then theres like 150 other reasons why the SGS2 is technically better, and why the iphone5 will actually be very similar to the SGS2.
I can confirm this "cream" or, as I would put it, "yellow" tint to the screen and whites in particular. It's not right - I consider it a fault. My old (now current) SGS has the most perfect, even whites I've ever seen on a phone - even beating thr iPhone 4 in my opinion.
The SGSII is horribly bad quality as far as I'm concerned. I see nothing in SAMOLED+ that improved over SAMOLED. It's actually more grainy, too saturated, viewing angles - bizarrely are off, and blurs slightly when scrolling. What the hell is up with Samsung?
Most reasonable people viewing the GNote pentile screen say it is bright, has high contrast, deep blacks and a sharp image.
It is a 24bit Millions of colours screen.
So why the hatred of pentile?
It's got me f#^ked.
Maybe it is due to old arguments that date back years.
There is an old controversy going around between pentile and LCD proponents, which is apples vs oranges because there are pentile lcd's and rgb oled's.
The controversy is, that pentiles use less sub-pixels and therefore should be rated as such in lower pixel density.
This ignores how vision works, which essentially is an illusion.
To disagree is to dismiss basic Buddhism and modern psychology as well as film theory on visual perception.
At the level of pixels, the illusion of vision breaks down for lcd as well as pentile screens.
So while looking at a pentile screen with a magnifying glass can be scary, it is the same for rgb's.
So why did Samsung go back to using the pentile matrix instead of RGB for the Note?
Only guessing, but some of the advantages of pentile are;
Cuts power consumption in half for equivalent brightness, or
Doubles screen brightness for equivalent power
Achieves higher resolution
Provides flexible settings for color control and power savings
Increases cost savings potential and yield for manufacturers
Accelerates adoption of next-generation devices
Makes text easier to read
nuvoyance.com
Contrary to the hype, pentiles allow higher resolution, all the while using much less power. Talk about a no-brainer.
One of the limitations of the pentile is a cross hatched pattern seen on the edge of some images, like a border between red and white, when seen up close(with a magnifying glass). This is so at lower pixel densities but "for higher pixel densities you stand to gain from PenTile" ; is the PenTile matrix bad for you?
More technical info:
PenTile blog
OLED-A
Achieve higher resolution - yes, but already given a 1280 x800 resolution, would you prefer it to be pentile or RGB?
No one is complaining about pentile can give higher resolution, its not like we want 800x480 RGB over 1280x800 pentile. But already given the phone is 1280x800, people would rather it be super amoled plus instead of pentile super amoled.
While pentile consumes less power, super amoled screens sucks power like crazy. It is a fact. But that said, i still think the screen is gorgreous. however if you let me choose - RGB over pentile any day.
GALAXYNOTE said:
Achieve higher resolution - yes, but already given a 1280 x800 resolution, would you prefer it to be pentile or RGB?
No one is complaining about pentile can give higher resolution, its not like we want 800x480 RGB over 1280x800 pentile. But already given the phone is 1280x800, people would rather it be super amoled plus instead of pentile super amoled.
While pentile consumes less power, super amoled screens sucks power like crazy. It is a fact. But that said, i still think the screen is gorgreous. however if you let me choose - RGB over pentile any day.
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Given a 1280 x800 resolution, I would prefer it to be pentile as it will look better.
Perceived resolution.
Pentile consumes 50% less power than RGB.
Xaddict said:
Pentile consumes 50% less power than RGB.
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Well if you are not talking about super amoled, then yes a pentile layout consumes theoretically 33% less power.
If you are strictly comparing pentile RGBG/RGBW to RGB, pentile looks like sh*t i gotta say. At least my atrix did.
Pentile also ages better than sRGB amoled, because the lifespan of the organic amoled subpixels are different from color to color. The pentile ages better because there are simply more subpixels of the color which has the lowest lifespan.
epicfailguy2 said:
Pentile also ages better than sRGB amoled, because the lifespan of the organic amoled subpixels are different from color to color. The pentile ages better because there are simply more subpixels of the color which has the lowest lifespan.
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The color which has the lowest lifespan is blue, from what i can recall)
How does RGBG or RGBW have more blue subpixels than RGB? (I am only asking just wanted to know.)
GALAXYNOTE said:
Well if you are not talking about super amoled, then yes a pentile layout consumes theoretically 33% less power.
If you are strictly comparing pentile RGBG/RGBW to RGB, pentile looks like sh*t i gotta say. At least my atrix did.
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Well, comparing the Note screen(pentile) to the SGII screen(rgb), opinions vary, but the Note screen looks better to me.
GALAXYNOTE said:
The color which has the lowest lifespan is blue, from what i can recall)
How does RGBG or RGBW have more blue subpixels than RGB? (I am only asking just wanted to know.)
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More green than blue.
Xaddict said:
Well, comparing the Note screen(pentile) to the SGII screen(rgb), opinions vary, but the Note screen looks better to me.
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Actually I gotta agree with you on that. My gf had a SGS II and that blue tint bugged the hell outta me. I dont know what they done to it, but i dont think it was a problem with it being RGB.
Pentile suffers from strange color tints on whites.
Hard time rendering shades of gray.
Strange artifacts in low-light conditions.
Ofc all noise is camouflaged by the high resolution.
I would trade for the S-LCD screen of the Rezound any-day,
the only problem with that screen is that it could use abit deeper blacks.
MartijnMM said:
Pentile suffers from strange color tints on whites.
Hard time rendering shades of gray.
Strange artifacts in low-light conditions.
Ofc all noise is camouflaged by the high resolution.
I would trade for the SRGB screen of the Rezound any-day,
the only problem with that screen is that it could use abit deeper blacks.
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I think this is related to OLED and not Pentile.
The Note screen does seem bluish to me when seen from an angle.
I don't see problems with grey on the Note.
I have view gradients to test the 24bit resolution and if viewed in a 24bit app, 24bit images look fine, otherwise not, but this is not an intrinsic fault of the Note's screen, only of the low res images or apps.
I'm not going to go back through and quote people, but some people said some things that are downright incorrect. Pentile does NOT "increase the resolution." It does exactly the opposite, decreasing it. Pentile has half the red subpixels and half the blue subpixels that RGB does; that means overall, pentile only has 2/3 the pixel elements that an RGB screen has. You can't display more information with fewer pixel elements.
The unpleasant artifacts I notice on pentile screens are small text, lines, graphics, appear fuzzy and sometimes colored on the edges, and when I look at solid colors that use red and blue (i.e.just about everything but solid green) especially white, I get this screen door effect. It's almost like there's a bit of checkerboard pattern to the solid color rather than being uniform. Hold your phone closer to your face and look at a solid white area, especially try to find a solid white area that is next to a solid green area with the brightness turned up all the way and you'll really see what I'm talking about.
Pentile doesn't necessarily use less energy than RGB. There are fewer subpixels, but they're twice as large and put out twice as much light. Energy in = light out. So in theory, the energy should be exactly the same. Perhaps they've found some way to do pentile a little more efficiently on some phones, but it's not an overall rule at all.
Pentile is used because it allows them to make the blues twice as big. Since they had a problem with short life span on those, making them twice as big made them hardier, longer lived, and higher yields in the manufacturing process. That's the ONLY reason for pentile. You could say this allows manufacturers to build higher resolution displays than they otherwise would be capable of (since they're cheating and using larger blues than an RGB would have) but a 1280x800 pentile is NOT "higher resolution" than a 1280x800 RGB! According to definition, they're the exact same resolution, but in reality, the pentile is lower in resolution.
RGB is ALWAYS better than pentile as far as image quality. The reason the Note's screen looks better than the SGSII, even though the SGSII had RGB, is simply because it has a much higher resolution. The benefits from that outweigh the negatives of pentile.
Here's a pic I put together showing the differences, even though you can find the same thing elsewhere on the net:
Thanks for summing that up =) Can we go on now and accept Sammy's gone cheap on us?
I really am not too bothered about what screen the phone uses as long as it looks good, i do think to me it looks fantastic. Lovely and bright and it displays a fantastic picture. If people dont like a particular screen a phone uses then they have the choice not to buy it. Some posts in here are very informative so in that respect thanks. However people that ***** about the phones screen (not necessarily in this thread) have the choice to return it and wait for the screen of their choice to come out.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
maxh said:
The unpleasant artifacts I notice .......
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The general public isn't noticing these artifacts, which makes me think they made the right decision on this one. After all, the General public would definitely notice a higher battery drain. I won't pretend to know the technical details about why Pentile battery usage < RGB.
maxh said:
Hold your phone closer to your face and look at a solid white area .... with the brightness turned up all the way and you'll really see what I'm talking about.
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Probably - but it's not interesting if that's not how you generally use your phone.
I wish I could find the interview, but they interviewed a samsung executive who was quite candid about the whole thing. He said quite clearly that Amoled + is sharper than Pentile. But he said that they went Pentile because in terms of sharpness, Amoled is good enough (i.e. still fantastic) - production is better (i.e. it's cheaper to make) and uses less battery power.
And they are correct. I've watched/read many many reviews of the GNote. For the most part, they all rave about the Screen, complain about the price, and are happy with the battery.
It would have been a mistake to put AMOLED+ in, and have the reviews (still) rave about the Screen, be even more turned off by the price, and only be 'okay' with the battery. (perhaps even complaining about it, saying 'Luckily it has a huge battery, because otherwise you'd be toast)
The GNote is already a niche device - you want to widen its appeal as much as possible.
- Frank
Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with my Note, including the screen. Search my posts and you'll see me say that several times. I'm a long time pentile hater from the day I first powered on my nexus one and started wondering what was wrong with the screen. Yet I've said several times that the Note's so awesome and the screen otherwise so beautiful that I'm able to overlook the pentile layout.
However I'm not going to read people claiming that pentile is better than RGB without speaking up, because it's not.
maxh said:
Pentile does NOT "increase the resolution." It does exactly the opposite, decreasing it
...
Pentile is used because it allows them to make the blues twice as big. Since they had a problem with short life span on those, making them twice as big made them hardier, longer lived, and higher yields in the manufacturing process. That's the ONLY reason for pentile. You could say this allows manufacturers to build higher resolution displays than they otherwise would be capable of (since they're cheating and using larger blues than an RGB would have) but a 1280x800 pentile is NOT "higher resolution" than a 1280x800 RGB! According to definition, they're the exact same resolution, but in reality, the pentile is lower in resolution.
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(This isn't meant to be a hostile response, I apologise if it comes across that way - it's absolutely not intended)
It doesn't directly, no. But you then go on to point out exactly how it enables much higher pixel densities - in an RGB layout each sub-pixel is the same size, so they need to make the blue sub-pixel at a viable size (as you said,) then make green and red sub-pixels that are the same size again.
On a PenTile screen, they can print the blue sub-pixel at it's required size, but the green component can be much smaller - and as a result, you can fit more pixels into the same space. If you compare the Galaxy Nexus's 316ppi PenTile screen to the S2's 216ppi RGB screen, you'll find that the blue and red sub-pixels are actually of a comparable width.
Sure RGBRGB is technically superior to RGBG in terms of image quality, but after a certain pixel-density:distance ratio, it just doesn't matter anymore, and allows for a greater pixel density regardless of display technology.
As a point of curiosity (I know you gave this first point, I'm just elaborating,) resolution is a measure of the number of horizontal or vertical alternating black and white lines a display can produce while maintaining a certain level of contrast. PenTile screens actually are their advertised resolution. However low-density RGBG will lose some detail in reds, but greens are still fine, and the human eye can't see enough detail in blue to tell a difference there. That's in general though - obviously there are biological differences in people, and that is where the legitimate complaints come from - not from holding a phone 3 inches from your face.
As for whether RGB or PenTile is better - consider that the Galaxy Nexus's 4.65" screen could fit either 1280x720 RG/BG pixels, or 960x540 RGB pixels, and it's too dense to be able to tell the difference in sub-pixel arrangement. I think PenTile actually is better in that case.
small dots and big dots
okay so everyone is forgetting that not so long ago printers used to print using
only one size dot of ink. well the picture from same size dots looked grainy. so the print people came up with different size dots of ink to make the pictures look
amazing. i look at the pentile displays the same way. in comparison the
screens on rgb screens look blocky to me and those on pentile look smoother and
less grainy. iphone just shrank the dots to where the human eye can't detect
them. but i believe to acheive the same thing on a larger screen isn't very
pratical. that's where different size pixels will make images appear smooth.
Some great info that dispels some pentile myths can be found here - http://pentileblog.com/uncategorized/pentile-for-720-hd-oled-smartphones/.
Put simply, a lot of the criticisms of pentile displays are only relevant to particular implementations, and not necessarily to the technology.
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
I looked at the Note screen under a loupe and I could see a serrated edge along the top of white text on a black bacground. If I looked at it normally I couldn't tell. In this case the pentile doesn't bug me.
What DOES bug me is the low color depth that the Note displays. It is odd as it is inconsistant. If I look at photos it is fine. Some apps though look like the color depth is drastically reduced. Two apps to test are Angry birds Rio, and Google Sky. In AB look at the sky and clouds on the title screen, the shades all blend smooth on other devices (checked on an Infuse). On the Note there is severe color loss and much banding evident. Same with google sky There are these sky gradients, smoother on other OLED screens like the Infuse, much more bandy on the Note. I don't know why on some things like photos the note looks fine, but in many apps color loss and banding is evident. Maybe it is some weird incompatibility of the apps? Maybe they mis-read the screen capability and drop to low color mode? I don't know but it is weird and bothers me much more than the pentile matrix.