Database Users

Screens: LCD vs AMOLED

The one thing I wish the EVO had going for it is an AMOLED screen. I'm coming from a Nexus one with said screen, and it's gorgeous. Almost useless in direct sunlight, but gorgeous. Now their was an early Sprint ?Coming Soon site claiming the phone had an AMOLED screen http://www.androidguys.com/2010/03/28/sprints-htc-evo-4git-sizzles/ ---but this was prob an error. My question is: is their a huge, noticeable, difference in the two types of screens? EVO owners, give me your opinions!

thefoss said:
The one thing I wish the EVO had going for it is an AMOLED screen. I'm coming from a Nexus one with said screen, and it's gorgeous. Almost useless in direct sunlight, but gorgeous. Now their was an early Sprint ?Coming Soon site claiming the phone had an AMOLED screen http://www.androidguys.com/2010/03/28/sprints-htc-evo-4git-sizzles/ ---but this was prob an error. My question is: is their a huge, noticeable, difference in the two types of screens? EVO owners, give me your opinions!
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Just had a live evo in my hands, and the screen is a beaut. I wouldnt worry about it not being AMOLED at all.

The screen is really a great screen.
I really don't notice much of a difference in colors / contrast / etc when compared to the ZuneHD, maybe it's the higher resolution / size that makes it look just as good.

meh, on the whole, AMOLED is all hype no show

AMOLED is trash I have a Nexus and an Evo and in direct sunlight my EVO is noticeable, AMOLED drains battery, LCD saves, colors are sharper but not brighter on AMOLED, brightness all the way up they both match up but the nexus(AMOLED) has a sharper scene
all in all not a big differ and Evo screen (IMO) has a better screen
1- colors are the same but sharper in AMOLED
2- direct sunlight LCD wins
3- colors are both bright
4- LCD battery saver
just a few details!

I thought that the amoled was more efficient.. so better than lcd
????
Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

Dan330 said:
I thought that the amoled was more efficient.. so better than lcd
????
Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk
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its not, uses more battery

Phone Scoop comparesEvo screen to Nexus One Amoled
See below for review comparing the Evo screen to the Nexus One Amoled
Here is the link to the full article.
http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=373&p=2666
Screen
The screen on the HTC Evo 4G was, at times, a bit disappointing. Under medium indoor light, the screen is crisp and clear. Text looks sharp and legible and the dark, contrasty interface looks polished. Outside, the Evo 4G couldn't hold up to bright daylight. This made it tough to use for normal email and calling tasks, and nearly impossible to use the camera, since you have to tap an onscreen button to take a shot. In almost every way, the screen fared better than the AMOLED display on the smaller Nexus One. It was a bit brighter with warmer colors and much better outdoor performance. But it could still stand some improvement.
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SoFarGone said:
its not, uses more battery
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Incorrect, AMOLED has no back light and consumes roughly the same power that a TFT LCD uses just on the TFT portion of the screen. The TFT Portion of a Active Matrix OLED screen controls light on a PerPixel basis, illuminating each OLED pixel at whatever color is required vs LCD where the current is constantly on(except in a pure 0 0 0 black pixel) and controlling the Liquid Crystal portion rotating the LC to whatever degree to allow the backlight(A large % of the consumption) to shine through at a given color. And because of AMOLEDs aforementioned lack of back light it uses significantly less power.
I'm also confused as to what you mean by "color sharpness" Are you talking about the actual edge sharpness of an image or the color reproduction.
In which case the color reproduction on a AMOLED is more SATURATED not specifically more accurate, though the increased saturation makes the image appear better on average because most people enjoy over saturated images. The contrast ratio, which is the ratio of black to white, e.g. when a TV says it has a 3,500:1 contrast ratio then the luminance of a pure white pixel 255,255,255 is 3,500 times higher than that of a pure black 0,0,0 pixel. AMOLED displayes typically have a much higher contrast ratio due to the lack of a back light and the fact they can produce much "deeper" black pixels.

AMOLED actually bugs me, not only are they useless in direct sunlight(which I find myself under quite often) but it feels like colors are often OVER saturated, like the reds and oranges on my friend's Incredible look awful while I've never had that with my Hero, some colors on mine might be washed out but I'd rather have that than have a giant hodgepodge of colors on an AMOLED.

Another thing to consider is AMOLEDs "burn in". That means that pixels that do not change on the screen for a long time tend to burn in and show permanent shadows. This happens on the status bar a lot since it is nearly always displayed and unchanging.
Here is a thread of NexusOne owners documenting it.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=673513

As of last week I just switch over from At&t to Sprint wireless. I had two lines on my contract, wifey with the Samsung Moment and myself with the HTC Hero just to hold me off until the Evo release.
From what I thought isn't the Samsung Moment screen also uses the Amoled technology and the Hero is LCD?
Side by side comparison from low brightness to 100 percent, the Hero display looks so much better quality wise compare to the Moment. Hero seem more saturated and crisp whereas the Moment IMO seem much more dulled. Especially in the setting menu with the black background, the Moment is kind of like greenish black whereas the Hero is spot on black. Outside I'm having a very difficulty time navigating around Moment (brightness all the way up) whereas the Hero is still manageable.
By any mean I'm no expert in this display stuff but this is just my own little comparison of what I've seen between the two display.

Anyone know if the Evo screen is transreflective? A related question would be, is it even possible for AMOLED to be transreflective?

I compared my Evo screen with my old Hero screen and the Hero was a little brighter and with darker blacks. Even between LCDs there are differences.

The Atrix's awesome pentile screen!!!

PenTile RGBW technology adds a white subpixel to the traditional red, blue, and green subpixels in a color display allowing a brighter display using less power.
The PenTile RGBW layout uses each red, green, blue and white subpixel to present high-resolution luminance information to the human eyes' red-sensing and green-sensing cone cells, while using the combined effect of all the color subpixels to present lower-resolution chroma (color) information to all three cone cell types.
Combined, this optimizes the match of display technology to the biological mechanisms of human vision. The layout uses one third fewer subpixels for the same resolution as the RGB Stripe (RGB-RGB) layout, in spite of having four color primaries instead of the conventional three, using subpixel rendering combined with metamer rendering. Metamer rendering optimizes the energy distribution between the white subpixel and the combined red, green, and blue subpixels: W <> RGB, to improve image sharpness.
The display driver chip has an RGB to RGBW color vector space converter and gamut mapping algorithm, followed by metamer and subpixel rendering algorithms. In order to maintain saturated color quality, to avoid simultaneous contrast error between saturated colors and peak white brightness, while simultaneously reducing backlight power requirements, the display backlight brightness is under control of the PenTile driver engine.
When the image is mostly desaturated colors, those near white or grey, the backlight brightness is significantly reduced, often to less than 50% peak, while the Liquid Crystal Display levels are increased to compensate.
When the image has very bright saturated colors, the backlight brightness is maintained at higher levels. Since most natural images and black on white text have few simultaneously bright and saturated colors, the average power of the PenTile RGBW panel is 50% less than a conventional RGB LCD.
Since the LCD backlight is the major power using component on many portable devices such as cell phones and personal media players, products that use the PenTile RGBW panel have appreciably longer battery life.
The PenTile RGBW also has an optional high brightness mode that doubles the brightness of the desaturated color image areas, such as black&white text, for improved outdoor view-ability.
The Motorola es400 and Motorola Atrix 4G cell phones use PenTile RGBW LCD displays.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile

You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.

Not quite sure what the point of this thread is... all you did was copy and paste some info from wikipedia. I'm perfectly fine with the screen, though a lot of people seem upset. Those complaints seem to be slowing down at least. It's not the best screen, but it's perfectly fine to me for my phone. I'd be a bit more upset if all picture quality was messed up (both screen and via HDMI), but it looks perfectly fine on other screens.

i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.

Techcruncher said:
i copied and pasted text that proves that this pentile argument is false. You put up with some slightly ok colors and get 50% more battery life.
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what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.

dLo GSR said:
what part of the argument is false? everything that people are complaining about color-wise and clarity-wise is true.
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Some of us have better vision than others.
I would gladly have paid more for anything that wasn't pentile. I try my best to ignore it, but it's so difficult when you can always see it.

..................

It might be a bit more power efficient but the yellows and oranges seriously look off and the greens like look a fly screen.
Also the pixel response rate is seriously bad, TONS of ghosting. This display really only works well with black text on a white background with not much animation.

Blind_Guardian said:
Some of us have better vision than others.
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I've had 20/20 all my life

dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.

hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
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Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.

I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.

hotleadsingerguy said:
That's because you're seeing something you knew about. If you didn't know it was a pentile screen you'd never see that stuff. Sitting my Atrix next to my iPhone 4 I can tell a difference, but not much of one.
I should mention I was in the Air Force and offered a pilot position, which isn't done unless your eye sight is damn-near perfect. I've had 40/20 vision my entire life and I'm a pretty good videophile. You see that stuff because you want to.
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If you read any of my posts in the main Pentile complaint thread, you'd know that I didn't even know the phone had a Pentile screen (or what that was for that matter) until after I got annoyed at the greens and yellows of the screen. It's ABSOLUTELY obvious that greens show jagged pixels, expecially when looking at thin greens (zoomed out text, lines, etc) and that yellows are more of a squash color. That was the first thing I noticed when zooming through some sites and playing Angry Birds (having played it on my iPod touch many times before). I then came on this site and read Anandtech's review and found out what a Pentile was.
If you can't tell the difference or shortcomings of a Pentile dispaly vs. a similarly dense display (i.e. the Retina) I can't point to anything else but denial. The screen is nice, but not that nice.
On an unrelated side note, I work in engineering for the modules that guide your fighter jets when you need to see without your eyes. I do wish I could take a ride in one though.

Atrix screen and HDMI sample videos
Last night I went to a concert and taped the show. The screen remained on for the entire 2 hours and still had 70% battery power left. If I were on my previous Captivate it would not have lasted 2 hours. It would seem the same people unhappy with the Atrix screen would be unhappy with the battery life if the Atrix had a different screen. I have posted this before: the Atrix screen is perfectly fine, even better than fine considering its efficiency. I have several hi res (720p) movies that look absolutely wonderful on the Atrix. Colors and resolution look beautiful. The colors do not have the super saturation of the Captivate, but still perfectly fine. Motorola should have provided some sample videos, but they didn't.
I was in the AT&T store playing around with the docks. There are 4 720p sample videos on the phone apparently only available thru HDMI. If someone could post those videos here so we can all have a look at them that may help quiet the screen concerns.

dLo GSR said:
You started a topic that ONLY quotes Wikipedia?
Regardless of what the article says, I know what my eyes see. Pixelation of small-scale text, terrible washed out yellows, and super pixelated greens.
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It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.

kkeo said:
It's not so much pixelated, but pixel-less. Text is undeniably sharper on the Atrix than it was on the Captivate.
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I don't disagree with that, but when you look at green text there us definitely a difference vs other colors.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

Techcruncher said:
I compared the atrix to every other phone in a verizon store. Everything except the iphone 4 had a worse display.
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aside from the iphone 4 which ofcourse has a better screen..
why would i want to go with an atrix screen and not a super amoled screen if i can see the pixels on both screens. yet the super amoled has better blacks and better colors in general ?
mind you i have used all phones including the atrix " even though it was a short period of time "

I am happy with the screen. It is not perfect, but then it is a mobile phone.
If i want awesome colors and deep blacks I have a rockin' 54" plasma. If I want super clear high resolution fonts, I got a great monitor.
I will trade a perfect phone screen for better battery any day. And for me, this pentile display is damn near perfect.

Blind_Guardian said:
Your vision must be failing or you have chosen to ignore it.
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Lol nice one or maybe he is hypnotizing himself that the Pentile display is acceptable because he doesn't want to go through the trouble of returning the dual core webtop phone LOL :-D
But seriously SUPER AMOLED screen has very vibrant color which I actually like but the battery life is bad for web browsing. I wish they have sepcial designed webpage viewer to create black background and white text for SUPER AMOLED screen to conserve battery life.
Finally, I think I've gotten used to the Pentile screen color. Its not really good bit at least its acceptable eventhough the color are distorted and not sure if software can solve the color issue.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA Premium App

So, everyone is complaining about the Atrix display? What about the cellphones dating back from the 1990's? I bet the display was pretty ****ty too. Oh wait, i dont see anyone complaining. Did any of you know about Pentile display back then? NO!?
Please spare us the comparison of what display is better etc..
Here is an idea. Why dont the rest of the ppl who complain about Pentile/SAMOLED etc..invent your own display? simple as that.
You dont like the display on the phone, DONT BUY IT! Stop whining about it.

Pentile Matrix reloaded

Most reasonable people viewing the GNote pentile screen say it is bright, has high contrast, deep blacks and a sharp image.
It is a 24bit Millions of colours screen.
So why the hatred of pentile?
It's got me f#^ked.
Maybe it is due to old arguments that date back years.
There is an old controversy going around between pentile and LCD proponents, which is apples vs oranges because there are pentile lcd's and rgb oled's.
The controversy is, that pentiles use less sub-pixels and therefore should be rated as such in lower pixel density.
This ignores how vision works, which essentially is an illusion.
To disagree is to dismiss basic Buddhism and modern psychology as well as film theory on visual perception.
At the level of pixels, the illusion of vision breaks down for lcd as well as pentile screens.
So while looking at a pentile screen with a magnifying glass can be scary, it is the same for rgb's.
So why did Samsung go back to using the pentile matrix instead of RGB for the Note?
Only guessing, but some of the advantages of pentile are;
Cuts power consumption in half for equivalent brightness, or
Doubles screen brightness for equivalent power
Achieves higher resolution
Provides flexible settings for color control and power savings
Increases cost savings potential and yield for manufacturers
Accelerates adoption of next-generation devices
Makes text easier to read
nuvoyance.com
Contrary to the hype, pentiles allow higher resolution, all the while using much less power. Talk about a no-brainer.
One of the limitations of the pentile is a cross hatched pattern seen on the edge of some images, like a border between red and white, when seen up close(with a magnifying glass). This is so at lower pixel densities but "for higher pixel densities you stand to gain from PenTile" ; is the PenTile matrix bad for you?
More technical info:
PenTile blog
OLED-A

Achieve higher resolution - yes, but already given a 1280 x800 resolution, would you prefer it to be pentile or RGB?
No one is complaining about pentile can give higher resolution, its not like we want 800x480 RGB over 1280x800 pentile. But already given the phone is 1280x800, people would rather it be super amoled plus instead of pentile super amoled.
While pentile consumes less power, super amoled screens sucks power like crazy. It is a fact. But that said, i still think the screen is gorgreous. however if you let me choose - RGB over pentile any day.

GALAXYNOTE said:
Achieve higher resolution - yes, but already given a 1280 x800 resolution, would you prefer it to be pentile or RGB?
No one is complaining about pentile can give higher resolution, its not like we want 800x480 RGB over 1280x800 pentile. But already given the phone is 1280x800, people would rather it be super amoled plus instead of pentile super amoled.
While pentile consumes less power, super amoled screens sucks power like crazy. It is a fact. But that said, i still think the screen is gorgreous. however if you let me choose - RGB over pentile any day.
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Given a 1280 x800 resolution, I would prefer it to be pentile as it will look better.
Perceived resolution.
Pentile consumes 50% less power than RGB.

Xaddict said:
Pentile consumes 50% less power than RGB.
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Well if you are not talking about super amoled, then yes a pentile layout consumes theoretically 33% less power.
If you are strictly comparing pentile RGBG/RGBW to RGB, pentile looks like sh*t i gotta say. At least my atrix did.

Pentile also ages better than sRGB amoled, because the lifespan of the organic amoled subpixels are different from color to color. The pentile ages better because there are simply more subpixels of the color which has the lowest lifespan.

epicfailguy2 said:
Pentile also ages better than sRGB amoled, because the lifespan of the organic amoled subpixels are different from color to color. The pentile ages better because there are simply more subpixels of the color which has the lowest lifespan.
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The color which has the lowest lifespan is blue, from what i can recall)
How does RGBG or RGBW have more blue subpixels than RGB? (I am only asking just wanted to know.)

GALAXYNOTE said:
Well if you are not talking about super amoled, then yes a pentile layout consumes theoretically 33% less power.
If you are strictly comparing pentile RGBG/RGBW to RGB, pentile looks like sh*t i gotta say. At least my atrix did.
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Well, comparing the Note screen(pentile) to the SGII screen(rgb), opinions vary, but the Note screen looks better to me.

GALAXYNOTE said:
The color which has the lowest lifespan is blue, from what i can recall)
How does RGBG or RGBW have more blue subpixels than RGB? (I am only asking just wanted to know.)
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More green than blue.

Xaddict said:
Well, comparing the Note screen(pentile) to the SGII screen(rgb), opinions vary, but the Note screen looks better to me.
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Actually I gotta agree with you on that. My gf had a SGS II and that blue tint bugged the hell outta me. I dont know what they done to it, but i dont think it was a problem with it being RGB.

Pentile suffers from strange color tints on whites.
Hard time rendering shades of gray.
Strange artifacts in low-light conditions.
Ofc all noise is camouflaged by the high resolution.
I would trade for the S-LCD screen of the Rezound any-day,
the only problem with that screen is that it could use abit deeper blacks.

MartijnMM said:
Pentile suffers from strange color tints on whites.
Hard time rendering shades of gray.
Strange artifacts in low-light conditions.
Ofc all noise is camouflaged by the high resolution.
I would trade for the SRGB screen of the Rezound any-day,
the only problem with that screen is that it could use abit deeper blacks.
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I think this is related to OLED and not Pentile.
The Note screen does seem bluish to me when seen from an angle.
I don't see problems with grey on the Note.
I have view gradients to test the 24bit resolution and if viewed in a 24bit app, 24bit images look fine, otherwise not, but this is not an intrinsic fault of the Note's screen, only of the low res images or apps.

I'm not going to go back through and quote people, but some people said some things that are downright incorrect. Pentile does NOT "increase the resolution." It does exactly the opposite, decreasing it. Pentile has half the red subpixels and half the blue subpixels that RGB does; that means overall, pentile only has 2/3 the pixel elements that an RGB screen has. You can't display more information with fewer pixel elements.
The unpleasant artifacts I notice on pentile screens are small text, lines, graphics, appear fuzzy and sometimes colored on the edges, and when I look at solid colors that use red and blue (i.e.just about everything but solid green) especially white, I get this screen door effect. It's almost like there's a bit of checkerboard pattern to the solid color rather than being uniform. Hold your phone closer to your face and look at a solid white area, especially try to find a solid white area that is next to a solid green area with the brightness turned up all the way and you'll really see what I'm talking about.
Pentile doesn't necessarily use less energy than RGB. There are fewer subpixels, but they're twice as large and put out twice as much light. Energy in = light out. So in theory, the energy should be exactly the same. Perhaps they've found some way to do pentile a little more efficiently on some phones, but it's not an overall rule at all.
Pentile is used because it allows them to make the blues twice as big. Since they had a problem with short life span on those, making them twice as big made them hardier, longer lived, and higher yields in the manufacturing process. That's the ONLY reason for pentile. You could say this allows manufacturers to build higher resolution displays than they otherwise would be capable of (since they're cheating and using larger blues than an RGB would have) but a 1280x800 pentile is NOT "higher resolution" than a 1280x800 RGB! According to definition, they're the exact same resolution, but in reality, the pentile is lower in resolution.
RGB is ALWAYS better than pentile as far as image quality. The reason the Note's screen looks better than the SGSII, even though the SGSII had RGB, is simply because it has a much higher resolution. The benefits from that outweigh the negatives of pentile.
Here's a pic I put together showing the differences, even though you can find the same thing elsewhere on the net:

Thanks for summing that up =) Can we go on now and accept Sammy's gone cheap on us?

I really am not too bothered about what screen the phone uses as long as it looks good, i do think to me it looks fantastic. Lovely and bright and it displays a fantastic picture. If people dont like a particular screen a phone uses then they have the choice not to buy it. Some posts in here are very informative so in that respect thanks. However people that ***** about the phones screen (not necessarily in this thread) have the choice to return it and wait for the screen of their choice to come out.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium

maxh said:
The unpleasant artifacts I notice .......
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The general public isn't noticing these artifacts, which makes me think they made the right decision on this one. After all, the General public would definitely notice a higher battery drain. I won't pretend to know the technical details about why Pentile battery usage < RGB.
maxh said:
Hold your phone closer to your face and look at a solid white area .... with the brightness turned up all the way and you'll really see what I'm talking about.
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Probably - but it's not interesting if that's not how you generally use your phone.
I wish I could find the interview, but they interviewed a samsung executive who was quite candid about the whole thing. He said quite clearly that Amoled + is sharper than Pentile. But he said that they went Pentile because in terms of sharpness, Amoled is good enough (i.e. still fantastic) - production is better (i.e. it's cheaper to make) and uses less battery power.
And they are correct. I've watched/read many many reviews of the GNote. For the most part, they all rave about the Screen, complain about the price, and are happy with the battery.
It would have been a mistake to put AMOLED+ in, and have the reviews (still) rave about the Screen, be even more turned off by the price, and only be 'okay' with the battery. (perhaps even complaining about it, saying 'Luckily it has a huge battery, because otherwise you'd be toast)
The GNote is already a niche device - you want to widen its appeal as much as possible.
- Frank

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with my Note, including the screen. Search my posts and you'll see me say that several times. I'm a long time pentile hater from the day I first powered on my nexus one and started wondering what was wrong with the screen. Yet I've said several times that the Note's so awesome and the screen otherwise so beautiful that I'm able to overlook the pentile layout.
However I'm not going to read people claiming that pentile is better than RGB without speaking up, because it's not.

maxh said:
Pentile does NOT "increase the resolution." It does exactly the opposite, decreasing it
...
Pentile is used because it allows them to make the blues twice as big. Since they had a problem with short life span on those, making them twice as big made them hardier, longer lived, and higher yields in the manufacturing process. That's the ONLY reason for pentile. You could say this allows manufacturers to build higher resolution displays than they otherwise would be capable of (since they're cheating and using larger blues than an RGB would have) but a 1280x800 pentile is NOT "higher resolution" than a 1280x800 RGB! According to definition, they're the exact same resolution, but in reality, the pentile is lower in resolution.
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(This isn't meant to be a hostile response, I apologise if it comes across that way - it's absolutely not intended)
It doesn't directly, no. But you then go on to point out exactly how it enables much higher pixel densities - in an RGB layout each sub-pixel is the same size, so they need to make the blue sub-pixel at a viable size (as you said,) then make green and red sub-pixels that are the same size again.
On a PenTile screen, they can print the blue sub-pixel at it's required size, but the green component can be much smaller - and as a result, you can fit more pixels into the same space. If you compare the Galaxy Nexus's 316ppi PenTile screen to the S2's 216ppi RGB screen, you'll find that the blue and red sub-pixels are actually of a comparable width.
Sure RGBRGB is technically superior to RGBG in terms of image quality, but after a certain pixel-density:distance ratio, it just doesn't matter anymore, and allows for a greater pixel density regardless of display technology.
As a point of curiosity (I know you gave this first point, I'm just elaborating,) resolution is a measure of the number of horizontal or vertical alternating black and white lines a display can produce while maintaining a certain level of contrast. PenTile screens actually are their advertised resolution. However low-density RGBG will lose some detail in reds, but greens are still fine, and the human eye can't see enough detail in blue to tell a difference there. That's in general though - obviously there are biological differences in people, and that is where the legitimate complaints come from - not from holding a phone 3 inches from your face.
As for whether RGB or PenTile is better - consider that the Galaxy Nexus's 4.65" screen could fit either 1280x720 RG/BG pixels, or 960x540 RGB pixels, and it's too dense to be able to tell the difference in sub-pixel arrangement. I think PenTile actually is better in that case.

small dots and big dots
okay so everyone is forgetting that not so long ago printers used to print using
only one size dot of ink. well the picture from same size dots looked grainy. so the print people came up with different size dots of ink to make the pictures look
amazing. i look at the pentile displays the same way. in comparison the
screens on rgb screens look blocky to me and those on pentile look smoother and
less grainy. iphone just shrank the dots to where the human eye can't detect
them. but i believe to acheive the same thing on a larger screen isn't very
pratical. that's where different size pixels will make images appear smooth.

Some great info that dispels some pentile myths can be found here - http://pentileblog.com/uncategorized/pentile-for-720-hd-oled-smartphones/.
Put simply, a lot of the criticisms of pentile displays are only relevant to particular implementations, and not necessarily to the technology.
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk

I looked at the Note screen under a loupe and I could see a serrated edge along the top of white text on a black bacground. If I looked at it normally I couldn't tell. In this case the pentile doesn't bug me.
What DOES bug me is the low color depth that the Note displays. It is odd as it is inconsistant. If I look at photos it is fine. Some apps though look like the color depth is drastically reduced. Two apps to test are Angry birds Rio, and Google Sky. In AB look at the sky and clouds on the title screen, the shades all blend smooth on other devices (checked on an Infuse). On the Note there is severe color loss and much banding evident. Same with google sky There are these sky gradients, smoother on other OLED screens like the Infuse, much more bandy on the Note. I don't know why on some things like photos the note looks fine, but in many apps color loss and banding is evident. Maybe it is some weird incompatibility of the apps? Maybe they mis-read the screen capability and drop to low color mode? I don't know but it is weird and bothers me much more than the pentile matrix.

AMOLED screens and Xperia devices

The lack of AMOLED is currently the only reason I haven't switched to a Sony device yet, so I just wanted a thread to gauge interest in having AMOLED screens on future devices.
I know the pros and cons of both AMOLED and LCD/IPS so there's not much point discussing those unless you really want to.

Don't necessarily care for it. More interested in a 5.5 or 5.7 inch screen.

Amoled can be better for the battery but I dislike the screen burn that occurs after a year or so. (Can vary based on how much phone is used.)
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AMOLED looks real nice but between burn in and extra battery drain on light colors, I'll stick with LCD.
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I much prefer IPS over AMOLED. AMOLED is overly saturated and typically in a pentile subpixel arragement leading to an inferior amount of subpixels.
IPS is one of the reasons I prefer Sony devices.

I can still see the pixellation in AMOLED screens, even in the Galaxy S5. Most people don't notice it, but I do - and because I know it's there, it will always bother me. AMOLED has poor color reproduction, and the screen has the potential to burn in (review units at any big box store are almost invariably burned in, even after only two weeks of constantly being on).
IPS LCD is the only thing I will consider.

IPS+ LCD is the best vivid display with true-to-life colours, especially with x-reality and Triluminos display.

Gorgenapper said:
at any big box store are almost invariably burned in, even after only two weeks of constantly being on).
IPS LCD is the only thing I will consider.
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npaladin2000 said:
AMOLED looks real nice but between burn in and extra battery drain on light colors, I'll stick with LCD.
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Burn in has stopped being a problem a long time ago. I have a Note 2, no burn in issues, nor on my Note 1 before, or Galaxy S2 or Galaxy S before that.
You should have the screen auto switch-off after 10 minutes (or less) anyway, it will just drain the battery. The reason you see demo models getting burn in is because they never switch the screen off. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not..

wrsg said:
Burn in has stopped being a problem a long time ago. I have a Note 2, no burn in issues, nor on my Note 1 before, or Galaxy S2 or Galaxy S before that.
You should have the screen auto switch-off after 10 minutes (or less) anyway, it will just drain the battery. The reason you see demo models getting burn in is because they never switch the screen off. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not..
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Right, but even if you don't consider burn-in, AMOLED definitely has it's tradeoffs. LG, Sony, Apple, HTC all use IPS LCD. Off the top of my head Samsung and Motorola are the only companies using AMOLED in high end devices, definitely the minority, not the majority.
Also keep in mind that the Note 2 does not use the typical pentile matrix that most AMOLED panels use

se1000 said:
Right, but even if you don't consider burn-in, AMOLED definitely has it's tradeoffs. LG, Sony, Apple, HTC all use IPS LCD. Off the top of my head Samsung and Motorola are the only companies using AMOLED in high end devices, definitely the minority, not the majority.
Also keep in mind that the Note 2 does not use the typical pentile matrix that most AMOLED panels use
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Just because it's the minority doesn't make it inherently bad. It's less used because it's more expensive, which is why Samsung and Motorola devices are usually more expensive than the others.
It has its tradeoffs but it also has benefits, less battery draw, more comfortable on the eyes, better contrast (imo). A lot of it is subjective, but I just want to raise awareness of the benefits and hopefully get more people asking the companies for AMOLED.

The day Sony introduce AMOLED, that's the day I will for sure stop supporting them.

Less battery draw is situational. Only when you're dealing with dark apps will there be less battery draw, since black pixels draw no power on AMOLED. Looking at Facebook or websites or other things with a lot of bright or white backgrounds requires more pixels to be lit up, thereby consuming more power.
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npaladin2000 said:
Less battery draw is situational. Only when you're dealing with dark apps will there be less battery draw, since black pixels draw no power on AMOLED. Looking at Facebook or websites or other things with a lot of bright or white backgrounds requires more pixels to be lit up, thereby consuming more power.
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Untrue
http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/news/oleds-ready-for-the-mainstream

wrsg said:
Untrue
http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/news/oleds-ready-for-the-mainstream
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That article was from TWO THOUSAND AND NINE!!!!!! A lot has changed for both technologies. Overall, I would say AMOLED and LCD are pretty close, with the edge actually going to LCD these days. Just lookup different devices with the same specs and look at screen on time figure. For example, the G2 had better screen on time figures than the S4 by a long shot (and I believe the S5 as well)
I'm in no way saying that AMOLED is bad by any means, I'm just saying that it isn't a superior technology either.
Personally as long as a screen has +400ppi it's really going to be sharp from any reasonable viewing distance. IPS has made strides in contrast ratio and color accuracy (gamut). AMOLED has improved in green/blue cast, and the ppi increases have negated the pentile issue.
In the end, a good screen is a good screen.

wrsg said:
Untrue
http://www.electronicsnews.com.au/news/oleds-ready-for-the-mainstream
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You should understand that battery drain doesn't only comprise of the display itself. You must take other things into considerations. (wakelock, background apps, etc.) And if you really talk about display wise, it's true that AMOLED display allows better saturation in terms of colours and also better contrast ratio due to the no-black-pixel lighting up, but on light surfaces it still suffers on battery drain. You want a phone without such issues? Just go back to Nokia 3310 then
And if AMOLED screen is as expensive as an IPS+ LCD screen, I suggest you go check with factories and see how much it's actually made. From my source, they would either practically be the same price, or IPS+ screen tends to be slightly more expensive.
Display is always personal preferences. I'd rather an IPS+ screen due to the natural colors that it produce and it really stands out on the Z2/Z3 as I had hands-on on both of them. And if you are going to discuss this, why not head towards the General Android section? There will be a hell lot of people which will be throwing a lot of facts out making you understand better. No point making this discussion here. Not like Sony will ever go for AMOLED display. They'd rather the real colors then over-saturated and unnatural colors.

I don't want a phone with AMOLED, because the color representation isn't accurate as IPS.
What I would like to see is a phone with LCD IPS display lightened by RGB LED, most LCD panels use WLED (white LED).
RGB LED increase the color representation and color contrast.
When you see small tracks on a solid color picture (from light blue to dark blue for example) it's a problem that RGB LED don't suffer from.
Sent from my Xperia Z2 using Tapatalk

I wouldn't say IPS is a deal breaker to me but, oh man, Z3 would be catching my attention much more with a Amoled display. I was using a Galaxy s4 and now I'm on moto g (gave the s4 to my wife) and I really miss the dark blacks. The blacks on ips is just a light gray.

As the Note4 Display has just been tested as the best mobile display currently available, there is no reasonable argument not to opt for AMOLED in the future - except availability and price.
This includes brightness, color accuracy AND brightness as well as efficiency!
Based on our extensive Lab tests and measurements, the Galaxy Note 4 is the Best performing Smartphone display that we have ever tested. It matches or breaks new records in Smartphone display performance for: Highest Absolute Color Accuracy, Highest Screen Resolution, Infinite Contrast Ratio, Highest Peak Brightness, Highest Contrast Rating in Ambient Light, and the smallest Brightness Variation with Viewing Angle. Its Color Management capability provides multiple Color Gamuts – a major advantage that is not currently provided by any of the other leading Smartphones
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http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note4_ShootOut_1.htm

Bäcker said:
As the Note4 Display has just been tested as the best mobile display currently available, there is no reasonable argument not to opt for AMOLED in the future - except availability and price.
This includes brightness, color accuracy AND brightness as well as efficiency!
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_Note4_ShootOut_1.htm
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Indeed, people seem to be either grossly misinformed or because X brand uses LCD instead of OLED, they've either become a fanboy of the former or opponent of the latter. Samsung's newer AMOLEDs are hands down the best mobile displays available. There isn't even any competition, to claim otherwise is silly.
They offer far better blacks, contrast ratio (which is vital on a mobile - daylight and outdoors), much wider colour gamut (and accuracy) than any *mobile* IPS panel and lower power draw. Aside from this, pixel responsiveness is effectively instant; for motion, games and overall fluidity and responsiveness they are MASSIVELY better than IPS .. this is the reason the Samsung phones seem so smooth (not because they're faster or have some kind of software or driver based special sauce). Also, because the panel is less brittle, it's less likely to suffer catastrophic damage or the glass/plastic cover smash or crack. They also use fewer toxic substances than LCDs.
As far as I'm concerned, the only other game in town is Sharp's IZGO technology. This because it can potentially eliminate bezels much more easily than competing display tech (see latest Sharp phones), and it reduces IPS-like panels' power draw.
The Quantom Dot filters in Amazon's Kindle tablet do improve colours and blacks a little, but it's really expensive at the moment, and is perhaps a better partner for VA panels, which have much deeper blacks and better contrast than IPS (Sony uses QD filters in their Triluminos VA panel TVs). Also they use Cadmium Selenide, and Cadmium is a very nasty substance.
Emissive Quantum Dot (once they have eliminated Cadmium) is perhaps the holy grail, in a few years time, since it should have none of the longevity issues of OLEDs, and all of the low power, (potentially) low cost, high gamut, high responsiveness benefits.
Anyway, for now I'll be happy with my Z3 Compact that'll be arriving early next week, and use it to complement my Jolla, hopefully with a Sailfish port in due time .... but a Samsung AMOLED screen on a Z4 or 5 Compact would only make it more desirable, in my view.

mudnightoil said:
this is the reason the Samsung phones seem so smooth
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Frankly that is a laughable statement, as Samsung Android devices are anything but smooth given their TouchWIZ-based bloat.
mudnightoil said:
The Quantom Dot filters in Amazon's Kindle tablet do improve colours and blacks a little, but it's really expensive at the moment, and is perhaps a better partner for VA panels, which have much deeper blacks and better contrast than IPS (Sony uses QD filters in their Triluminos VA panel TVs).
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The Xperia Z3 is supposed to be using Triluminous technology that includes quantum dots. That will probably have to be confirmed once the phones are released, since in the past there have been Triluminous phones without incorporating quantum dots, but the possibility exists.
While there are some things I like about AMOLED, unless you have content optimized for it, it's very battery inefficient. And the most popular smartphone applications are generally things like Facebook, web browsing, and a few other things that still don't offer a "dark" mode optimized for AMOLED, that minimizes the number of lit background pixels. White backgrounds are not a friend of AMOLED. .

Anyone else want Samsung to go with high quality LCDs instead?

After comparing my Galaxy S6 AMOLED display to an iPhone 6 and an LG G4, the whites on AMOLED just look horrible with AMOLED. Samsung has made tremendous improvements to Super AMOLED technology in a few short years, since the S2/S3 era. Whites look brighter and more accurate, but they still can't touch LCD.
It would be nice to see Samsung go with a cutting-edge quantum dots LCD, we could have brighter whites and still save energy consumption. Due to the inefficiency with the technology to display whites, I doubt we'll ever see them look as LCDs with their back lights.
AMOLED screens don't achieve the best on-screen times either due to most content on the Internet having very high APL. Most of the Internet and UI interface has bright colors and white backgrounds too. Until Samsung can put more development breakthroughs with AMOLED or develop the more brighter and energy efficient QLEDs, I would love to see a high quality LCD with all the same profile calibrations Samsung offers for their OLED screens.

megagodx said:
After comparing my Galaxy S6 AMOLED display to an iPhone 6 and an LG G4, the whites on AMOLED just look horrible with AMOLED. Samsung has made tremendous improvements to Super AMOLED technology in a few short years, since the S2/S3 era. Whites look brighter and more accurate, but they still can't touch LCD.
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No never. I will not ever buy LCD again, even after the moto x 2014 it became clear to me that amoled is superior. Maybe the whites are still not as good but the blacks are better (and in truth the s6 has the best color reproduction of any display) BUT amoled is functionally so much superior to LCD I would even be willing to give uo some display accurary for the added benefits of amoled (ambient/active display, no power consumption for pure blacks)

No LCD
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X2 for no way. Amoled has those awesome blacks and better contrast. But also, amoled can save battery by using black, dark themes etc since the pixels aren't on when displaying black. That's such a great advantage. Whites look perfectly fine to me too. I see no issue there.
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benjmiester said:
X2 for no way. Amoled has those awesome blacks and better contrast. But also, amoled can save battery by using black, dark themes etc since the pixels aren't on when displaying black. That's such a great advantage. Whites look perfectly fine to me too. I see no issue there.
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godutch said:
No never. I will not ever buy LCD again, even after the moto x 2014 it became clear to me that amoled is superior. Maybe the whites are still not as good but the blacks are better (and in truth the s6 has the best color reproduction of any display) BUT amoled is functionally so much superior to LCD I would even be willing to give uo some display accurary for the added benefits of amoled (ambient/active display, no power consumption for pure blacks)
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Unless you're going to run your display in negative mode most of the time, most of the content you display isn't going to be black. That's not the design ethos most websites and UIs use. Besides, bad blacks are only noticeable in the dark. Poor whites are noticeable in all types of environments. The color reproduction might be good on Samsung's Super AMOLED displays [not other AMOLED displays] but everything else about them is seemingly underdeveloped. Contrast viewing angles has never been a major selling point for me or a particularly useful additive, high-quality IPS LCDs have proven to be good enough.
LCDs are just better at the moment. Samsung's Super AMOLED technology [again, forget the inferior AMOLED panels used by other manufacturers] is a few years away still from surpassing top-end LCDs. They have the potential though. Just don't see it happening this year. While LG's G4 isn't that great of an LCD, it's a good example of how blacks can be made acceptable on LCDs with quantum dots technology.

megagodx said:
Unless you're going to run your display in negative mode most of the time, most of the content you display isn't going to be black. That's not the design ethos most websites and UIs use. Besides, bad blacks are only noticeable in the dark. Poor whites are noticeable in all types of environments. The color reproduction might be good on Samsung's Super AMOLED displays [not other AMOLED displays] but everything else about them is seemingly underdeveloped. Contrast viewing angles has never been a major selling point for me or a particularly useful additive, high-quality IPS LCDs have proven to be good enough.
LCDs are just better at the moment. Samsung's Super AMOLED technology [again, forget the inferior AMOLED panels used by other manufacturers] is a few years away still from surpassing top-end LCDs. They have the potential though. Just don't see it happening this year. While LG's G4 isn't that great of an LCD, it's a good example of how blacks can be made acceptable on LCDs with quantum dots technology.
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Lol, that's funny. How about black wallpaper, lock screen, black theme, black browser theme, I use Voxer all day for work in a dark theme. So yeah, there's tons of places to utilize that. Not to mention amoled uses less power already as is and the newest amoled is super color accurate. There's basically no advantages to LCD anymore. You're crazy, but if that's what you want, buy one. Just don't expect support for it here, where everyone would much rather have amoled. You're not converting anybody (what seems like you're trying to do).
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Hey op go get an iPhone for that lcd, you'll be back trust me I know ....

benjmiester said:
Lol, that's funny. How about black wallpaper, lock screen, black theme, black browser theme, I use Voxer all day for work in a dark theme. So yeah, there's tons of places to utilize that. Not to mention amoled uses less power already as is and the newest amoled is super color accurate. There's basically no advantages to LCD anymore. You're crazy, but if that's what you want, buy one. Just don't expect support for it here, where everyone would much rather have amoled. You're not converting anybody (what seems like you're trying to do).
Sent from my SM-G920T using XDA Free mobile app
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All I heard from you was "blah blah blah, I like AMOLED so I don't care blah blah blah" - not exactly a good argument. Not everyone wants to use a dull and boring dark themes that consist of black. People have different ideas of creativity and most people like to use wallpapers and backgrounds that have regular colors that have bright backgrounds. AMOLEDs do NOT use less power unless content is not above 65% APL. Most web pages and UIs out of the box have 70-80% APL with all the whites and other colors that AMOLEDs aren't efficient with [such as blues] - If Samsung pours in a couple more billion in R&D, Super AMOLED technology might be prime to surpass the current advancements in LCDs. For now, I think and would prefer if they put in a class-leading LCD panel in the S7 and Note 6 for 2016 with display calibration profiles, at least until they iron out their OLED limitations and inefficiencies.

megagodx said:
All I heard from you was "blah blah blah, I like AMOLED so I don't care blah blah blah" - not exactly a good argument. Not everyone wants to use a dull and boring dark themes that consist of black. People have different ideas of creativity and most people like to use wallpapers and backgrounds that have regular colors that have bright backgrounds. AMOLEDs do NOT use less power unless content is not above 65% APL. Most web pages and UIs out of the box have 70-80% APL with all the whites and other colors that AMOLEDs aren't efficient with [such as blues] - If Samsung pours in a couple more billion in R&D, Super AMOLED technology might be prime to surpass the current advancements in LCDs. For now, I think and would prefer if they put in a class-leading LCD panel in the S7 and Note 6 for 2016 with display calibration profiles, at least until they iron out their OLED limitations and inefficiencies.
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You're kidding right? That literally went the opposite way... I made a perfectly valid fact based response, and you completely ignored/tried to discredit all of the reasons I stated.
And nobody is making anyone theme anything it's just an advantage one could do with Amoled that they cannot with lcd. Also that's an opinion, most people like dark themes better as is.
I guess that's my mistake though, I thought this was a discussion, but it sounds like you're asking a question, and then ignoring everyone's response until you hear the one you want. Is it just me? Am I being an asshole?
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Dunno, the fact that 99% of the s6 i have seen have color uniformity issues, ide rather have the lcd. S6 with a iphone screen would be my preferred phone.
Like the other poster said, you always notice the bad whites, the pitch black contrast of amoled you can only really see at night.
And btw i hate ios, and i own an s6. And its the 6th one ive owned because the the horrible pink screen and color uniformity issues.
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Which mode was your Galaxy s6 on? Keep in mind both the iPhone 6 and the LG G4 have slightly blue white points. I have no complaints about the whites in the s6.
I used to think Samsung should go with LCDs too, but after the vast improvements with the note 4 and s6 I love amoled displays now.

megagodx said:
After comparing my Galaxy S6 AMOLED display to an iPhone 6 and an LG G4, the whites on AMOLED just look horrible with AMOLED. Samsung has made tremendous improvements to Super AMOLED technology in a few short years, since the S2/S3 era. Whites look brighter and more accurate, but they still can't touch LCD.
It would be nice to see Samsung go with a cutting-edge quantum dots LCD, we could have brighter whites and still save energy consumption. Due to the inefficiency with the technology to display whites, I doubt we'll ever see them look as LCDs with their back lights.
AMOLED screens don't achieve the best on-screen times either due to most content on the Internet having very high APL. Most of the Internet and UI interface has bright colors and white backgrounds too. Until Samsung can put more development breakthroughs with AMOLED or develop the more brighter and energy efficient QLEDs, I would love to see a high quality LCD with all the same profile calibrations Samsung offers for their OLED screens.
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http://www.sammobile.com/2015/03/11...-s6-edge-as-best-mobile-displays-ever-tested/
Best display ever, 'nuff said.

megagodx said:
LCDs are just better at the moment. Samsung's Super AMOLED technology [again, forget the inferior AMOLED panels used by other manufacturers] is a few years away still from surpassing top-end LCDs. They have the potential though. Just don't see it happening this year. While LG's G4 isn't that great of an LCD, it's a good example of how blacks can be made acceptable on LCDs with quantum dots technology.
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LCD will never have the functionality of AMOLED, that's even when AMOLED is their color reproduction and brightness are slightly inferior to LCD (which btw is not even true) they lack the possibility for ambient display

I'd vote for LCD on the S6. X100
The display on the S6 is pretty poor to be honest. Colour reproduction is no where near real life on any setting and anyone who thinks it is reads reviews are gospel because in real life it's a different story, with white's are awful and blacks which are only slightly better than the current top level LCD's.
Add to the fact, removing all the nonsense about Amoled being better on battery, which in real world usage is rubbished, most work done on 99% of phones is white background, negating any battery advantage, which is negligible and indistinguishable in real world use and testing.
Black themes on HTC One M9 look just as good as on the S6, possibly even better thanks to the other colours being better, and anything with a light or white background looks leaps and bounds better on it's LCD.
Can't get around the fact that 99% of Samsung's current displays have pink tint and uniformity issues and look pretty poor.
Mine was replaced and the pink tint which looked better, is worse than ever after just a few days or so of use.
---------- Post added at 09:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 AM ----------
godutch said:
LCD will never have the functionality of AMOLED, that's even when AMOLED is their color reproduction and brightness are slightly inferior to LCD (which btw is not even true) they lack the possibility for ambient display
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Have you even looked at real world pictures or looked through the camera of the S6 lately? No mode is true to life with colours and the my M9, or in fact probably any top end LCD lately is better in direct sunlight. The S6 display looks like a ghost while the M9 actually is still crisp and sharp. As for ambient display, who uses it and how long is it on screen for ? .5 of a second? Useless.

Among the reasons for having bought Samsung phones for years the screen is one of the main reasons, if they changed to LCD I would most likely change brands. Samsung lead the world in AMOLED display so why change that to become like Apple. All I can say to those posing this ridiculous suggestion is change your phone to a manufacturer that gives you what you desire. I still get comments from my friends that have Iphones (the 6 included) that Samsung displays l;ook better so maybe its not that bad at all even if it isn't representative of "real" life its just easy on the eye. My opinion of course

Jonathan-H said:
Have you even looked at real world pictures or looked through the camera of the S6 lately? No mode is true to life with colours and the my M9, or in fact probably any top end LCD lately is better in direct sunlight. The S6 display looks like a ghost while the M9 actually is still crisp and sharp. As for ambient display, who uses it and how long is it on screen for ? .5 of a second? Useless.
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I used to use ambient display all the time, too bad samsung disabled it (for now). And you must be using your display wrong, the S6 has the brightest display by a long margin, almost twice as bright as some of the competition but you have to leave the brightness to auto

No, thanks.

lol, no way, the screen is the main reason I still use Samsung devices...not that the other hardware is bad but OLED is the way to go.

The AMOLED display is one of the main reasons I stick with Samsung.

AMOLED fan here also. Not 100% certain which technology is more efficient/better based on technical specs but for daily usage, I much prefer my S6 SAMOLED over the G3's LCD.