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So I keep reading how the nexus one is having mediocre sales (about 20,000 a month), and I can't help but think: would this be the case if it were offered on verizon wireless. I currently own a droid eris for verizon and and am patiently waiting to get updated to 2.1, but would pony up 500 bucks to simply jump right into a much better hand set, not that the eris is bad, the nexus one just kicks ass.
so my questions: How many people aren't buying nexus one's simply because their waiting for it on the verizon network?
I thought it was 20,000/week, either way, I think the slow sales have a multitude of factors, being online only is definitely the biggest I think. A lot of people go into stores and look at phones and end up buying one there, without this one on one experience a lot of people that don't really know much about phones will never be exposed to one. T-Mobile being the only carrier is definitely another factor, I think their sales will increase once it hits Verizon and Vodaphone, but probably nothing crazy from Verizon. Once again I think not being in stores will hurt them because none of the sales people in the store are going to tell people they should go online and look at the Nexus One when they have the chance to sell them something like the Droid right there in the store. Also, when a customer see's the Droid, is the average consumer going to notice the differences between the Nexus One and Droid? What's an extra 400mhz to the average joe. Maybe just my opinion, but if Google really want's to move these things to people aside from the technofiles they need them in stores in front of everyday customers. Who knows, maybe they'll gain more traction as more people start to hear about the Nexus and google.com/phone but I still think without putting them in peoples faces at stores they're not gonna throw up the legendary numbers they could with a phone of this quality.
Yeah...maybe if they give the N1 owners some bigger bullets. I mean...I don't mind sharing (I actually do)...but why give everyone 2.1? That gives the N1 owners nothing special. Unless GooG's got something special in store for us.
Plus I think Google didn't advertise the N1 because they just wanted to get their feet wet in the game. We da Guinea Pigs!
Anyway, when Verizon get the N1...they'll do more of those Bad Ass commercials they made for the Droid.
its gotten some pretty bad press during the release. Alot of issues and problems that couldnt be fixed with live help.
I remember the first release week i had about 10 or so calls a day into my tmobile store of very angry n1 owners saying this or that doesnt work.
And even more people comming in and asking if they could look at one or asking why they arent able to upgrade to an n1.
Even as a employee i felt kinda cheesed that i couldn't get the n1 for my normal employee tmobile phone discount.
I think people are waiting for few things.
Either for it to come to stores and for it to have live customer service, or for all the bugs be fixed.
i expect it to sell a lot better when its on more carriers and all the issues have been worked out
JoshHart said:
I thought it was 20,000/week.
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It was 20,000/week or 80,000/month. Really not bad & impressive considering how it was marketed. Once the N1 goes global, then I think the numbers will sky rocket!
No, this isn't one of those heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another you've been messing around kinda things. This is straight from Sprint to us over at Android Central.
We have heard reports of users experiencing less-than-expected 3G upload speeds with their Samsung Epic 4G. After extensive investigation, Sprint and Samsung have identified an enhancement that may improve upload speeds on the Epic. This fix will be made available in the next maintenance release. It’s important to note that network speeds are impacted by many factors when using commercially-available speed test applications and test results may or may not be true indicator of the actual network performance.
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Figured you guys would be interested. Source Android Central
The pessimists were wrong
Weird wording, though... "may" improve upload speeds? "Hey guys, try this out, see how it works. May fix it, may not, who knows?"
Extend my 30 day trial and I'm willing to wait and try this fix that "may" work. Otherwise, it's too one-sided a gamble.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I'm confident that the fix will remove the cap. I would assume that the word "may" is used because people live in markets where upload speeds are slow regardless of the cap. So, wile the upload issue would technically fixed, for those people, uploads wouldn't improve regardless. Let's have a little faith, shall we? We've done our part to make noise and get the gadget blogs to take notice... hopefully the fix will do the rest.
In short, I think that too many are reading too far into the meaning of the word "may."
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
APOLAUF said:
In short, I think that too many are reading too far into the meaning of the word "may."
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I don't begrudge Sprint that wiggle room, so long as they extend the trial period so the customers can confirm that the fix works. Or perhaps amend the contract to say that we "may" pay the bills.
As it stands, Sprint seems to expect us, the customers, to commit to a contract on the optimistic speculation that the fix will materialize and solve the problem.
The 30-day deadline is Sprint's deadline, not mine. They have the discretion to extend it for this special case in return for asking me as a customer to trust them and wait for the fix.
Just seeking a fair two-way relationship.
The word "may" closes them off from idiots saying "I had 150k uploads before, now I had 145k once out of 25 tries! I want a new phone! I WANT A NEW PHONE!!!!!"
And if you think idiots like that aren't out there, you haven't worked in a cellular store before.
entropism said:
The word "may" closes them off from idiots saying "I had 150k uploads before, now I had 145k once out of 25 tries! I want a new phone! I WANT A NEW PHONE!!!!!"
And if you think idiots like that aren't out there, you haven't worked in a cellular store before.
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Too bad about the idiots (including those who work in cellular stores).
The established fact is that the Epic is broken and customers paid good money for it. The vendor is at fault for this, not "idiot" customers. Since the vendor is now asking customers to grant them extra trust and wait for a fix, the vendor should extend the trial period in return. A mutual fair deal.
boomerbubba said:
Too bad about the idiots (including those who work in cellular stores).
The established fact is that the Epic is broken and customers paid good money for it. The vendor is at fault for this, not "idiot" customers. Since the vendor is now asking customers to grant them extra trust and wait for a fix, the vendor should extend the trial period in return. A mutual fair deal.
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The vendor is not asking you to or making you keep the product if you do not like the cap. The vendor is trying to fix an issue that some have voiced as a concern, it is not a promise it will meet your expectations. Most people would not even notice the cap because upload speeds on 3g typically are not very good regardless, there is no guarantee of upload speeds or a minimum speed you must receive and the service is not sold that way. However if upload speeds are of extreme importance and if this product doesnt work for you then return it. You are owed nothing special because you want to wait to see if this is an acceptable outcome to you. A product is being sold, there is a trial period, make your judgement on the facts available to you now and either keep the product or do not, if you are unsure of this will fix the issue then return it.
mark920 said:
The vendor is not asking you to or making you keep the product if you do not like the cap. The vendor is trying to fix an issue that some have voiced as a concern, it is not a promise it will meet your expectations. Most people would not even notice the cap because upload speeds on 3g typically are not very good regardless, there is no guarantee of upload speeds or a minimum speed you must receive and the service is not sold that way. However if upload speeds are of extreme importance and if this product doesnt work for you then return it. You are owed nothing special because you want to wait to see if this is an acceptable outcome to you. A product is being sold, there is a trial period, make your judgement on the facts available to you now and either keep the product or do not, if you are unsure of this will fix the issue then return it.
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Do you represent Sprint? If anyone at Sprint said that to me I almost certainly would tell them to cancel the contract. But I don't think you do speak for Sprint. I think they do want the two grand, so they are asking for the business.
Look, the simple fact is, we live in a sanitized, litigious, pussified society, and people want to sue over EVERYTHING. By saying the word "may", instead of will, Sprint is practicing a much needed case of Covering Their Ass.
Is the 150k upload speeds a bug that needs fixing? YES. However, by wording it as "will" instead of "may", people who living in an area where say, 100k uploads are the norm and they don't see a DEFINITE upload speed of over 150k (the "will" represents a definite, a constant, a guarantee), they can easily give Sprint **** over their wording, and either demand a new phone for free, demand an ETF free termination, or try to start a lawsuit.
Now, by wording it as "may", they cover their ass in the extreme cases that everyone else with half a brain realizes is just common sense.
entropism said:
Now, by wording it as "may", they cover their ass in the extreme cases that everyone else with half a brain realizes is just common sense.
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As I said, I don't begrudge Sprint that wiggle room. I'm willing to trust them to give them time to implement the fix if, and only if, they also extend the trial period. If they have faith in their own purported plan for remediation, that should not be a problem. And remember, this is a design defect for which they and their manufacturing partner bear responsibility in the first place. This certainly not the customers' fault (your smug attitude about "idiot" customers notwithstanding).
So overall, I'm willing to cut Sprint a break if they reciprocate.
I'd HARDLY call it a smug attitude, thank you very much. When YOU deal with people who do the following on a daily basis, you'd be jaded too:
1 - Hand you a phone with a HOLE in the screen and demand it was a manufacturing defect that a screwdriver went through it, then try to take a swing at you when you hand them an insurance card.
2 - Hand you a phone with moist sand pouring out of it and try to claim it never got near water
3 - hand you a still damp phone with RICE still inside it, and claim they never got it wet and had no idea how the rice got inside
4 - hand you a phone that literally pours liquid onto your desk, then proceed to tell you that they got into a fight with their girlfriend, who proceeded to throw it on the floor and PEE on it (really wish I wore gloves for that one)
That being said, there are people who will try to cancel over everything, and the wording between "may" or "will" is something that WILL come back to bite Sprint (or any other company) in the ass at one point or another.
entropism said:
I'd HARDLY call it a smug attitude, thank you very much. When YOU deal with people who do the following on a daily basis, you'd be jaded too...
<snip>
That being said, there are people who will try to cancel over everything, and the wording between "may" or "will" is something that WILL come back to bite Sprint (or any other company) in the ass at one point or another.
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I have no doubt that such incidents happen. We also could tick off plenty of reasons not to trust carriers, manufacturers and cell phone sales consultants in particular. There is not just idiocy, but also dissembling and downright dishonesty. Samsung, in particular, has a pretty sorry reputation for customer support.
You don't trust customers. Understood. I don't trust cell phone salesmen. And I certainly don't trust corporations like Sprint any further than they are willing to trust me. The fact is that they now have the special case of a defective product with no fix yet, and the bolus of early adopters, including me, is nearing the 30 day deadline. I should think Sprint would be interested in keeping our business to give itself time, instead of saying: "Take it or leave it. You take all the risk of a fix, even though we and Samsung are to blame."
Read my lips. I am not quibbling over "may," but over the one-sided allocation of risk and trust. I have said twice I can understand that Sprint wants wiggle room, but I want reciprocation.
APOLAUF said:
I'm confident that the fix will remove the cap. I would assume that the word "may" is used because people live in markets where upload speeds are slow regardless of the cap. So, wile the upload issue would technically fixed, for those people, uploads wouldn't improve regardless. Let's have a little faith, shall we? We've done our part to make noise and get the gadget blogs to take notice... hopefully the fix will do the rest.
In short, I think that too many are reading too far into the meaning of the word "may."
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Tell that to the people who have the Sprint Samsung Moment. From Nov. 9th 2009 to today they are still fighting the uphill battle trying to get their phones fixed.
community.sprint.com/baw/thread/24237;jsessionid=FFCC2CF5B47FB507F65A95C2A5374757.app1jive1?start=345&tstart=0&reqsorting=dec
I'm sure Sprint and Samsung used the words MAY fix your airplane mode issue or MAY fix your data lockup problems but it's been nearly a year and the problems still exist.
The 24 pages of that thread and 10 months later, I thinking that Sprint/Samsung MAY have screwed Moment users over.
However I will say that Samsung is putting all their eggs in the Galaxy S bucket. If they screw over the owners of all these phones on all the carriers out there, their reputation will be destroyed in the cellular arena. They know it's in their best interest to fix these problems fast (if possible), it would totally suck though if these issues are hardware based.
Just letting you know, a Moment software update especially for the airplane mode bug is coming this week. A little late, but still...
entropism said:
The word "may" closes them off from idiots saying "I had 150k uploads before, now I had 145k once out of 25 tries! I want a new phone! I WANT A NEW PHONE!!!!!"
And if you think idiots like that aren't out there, you haven't worked in a cellular store before.
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Entropism, you are a really helpful poster and I admire you. There are plenty of nice sprint works, soem informed ones, and a lot of condescending dolts. I consider you to be nice and knowledgeable.
But around here, among friends, we have all been around the block and seen things Sprint has fixed and things they have never fixed, and simply relied on textual "fixes" of what to expect.
So when it comes to these stunning low 3G speeds, it is shocking sprint did not see this in there tests, and also given the recently discovered apparent packet filtering on Epic yet not on Evo, it does make people rightfully cautious about being sure of anything Sprint says.
The Epic other serious bug, the GPS, is also very disconcerting. We knwo the way it manifests, might, unlike the 3G issue, have made it harder for Sprint to see. After all it goes away temporarily with resets. so maybe their testers were reseting often. But given the Galaxy S having so many GPS problems testing there should have been more stringent as well. Sprint is still giving people false and misleading advce on users on fixing aGPS, telling them to use wireless network locaiton, which is a misdirection to tower locaiton and has no affect on the real bug.
Just for the record, the actual Sprint representative I last talked to about this issue was much more reasonable and accommodating after reading the Sprint statement on the 3G network issue. He cut me some slack on the trial period while awaiting this fix, and I cut Sprint some slack on keeping the line and the phone while we wait. A win-win deal. We both hope the fix comes through and that it works.
boomerbubba said:
Just for the record, the actual Sprint representative I last talked to about this issue was much more reasonable and accommodating after reading the Sprint statement on the 3G network issue. He cut me some slack on the trial period while awaiting this fix, and I cut Sprint some slack on keeping the line and the phone while we wait. A win-win deal. We both hope the fix comes through and that it works.
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Glad this worked out for you (so far). Let's hope the fix is everything we've been asking for...
boomerbubba said:
Just for the record, the actual Sprint representative I last talked to about this issue was much more reasonable and accommodating after reading the Sprint statement on the 3G network issue. He cut me some slack on the trial period while awaiting this fix, and I cut Sprint some slack on keeping the line and the phone while we wait. A win-win deal. We both hope the fix comes through and that it works.
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You would be stunned how often Sprint employees will go out of their way to keep you as a customer if you just ask someone. I've gotten extra upgrades, I've gotten them to turn the $75 extra line upgrade bonus into a full $150 upgrade, I've gotten actual money off of monthly bills and quite a few other things for minor inconveniences in performance and/or billing. The reason my family is STILL with Sprint (besides being the best bang for your buck everything plan out there) is that we've all had AWFUL experiences with the other companies out there (especially ATT) and Sprint very regularly impresses.
I told a rep at the Sprint store that I want to get an Epic on Oct 1 but was worried about those issues and he offered to extend my 30 days (for switching phones only, not for bailing out of contract) until the time at which they release the next update if I needed it to ensure that my issues were addressed.
aero1 said:
But around here, among friends, we have all been around the block and seen things Sprint has fixed and things they have never fixed, and simply relied on textual "fixes" of what to expect.
So when it comes to these stunning low 3G speeds, it is shocking sprint did not see this in there tests, and also given the recently discovered apparent packet filtering on Epic yet not on Evo, it does make people rightfully cautious about being sure of anything Sprint says.
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Oh trust me, I know. There are aspects of Sprint's procedures and testing that I think are asinine, and I definitely give as much leeway in my store as I can without getting fired. All I was doing was commenting on the legality and reasoning behind the wording, nothing more and nothing less. The simple fact is that yes, Sprint should have had these issues fixed, but I know that they have been aware (even if not admitted publicly) from the start and working on the bugs since before launch.
However, I stand behind my original statement: Customers will do ANYTHING to try to get one over on Sprint, read a forum thread on SERO if you want proof. And a simple wording difference between "may" and "will" can mean a world of difference.
So, im just wondering, does anyone else think the Incredible is dying? I was at Verizon yesterday (black friday) and the reps didnt even show customers the incredible, nor did anyone look at it. And there were about a good 20 customers who walked in the store and looked at the Droid section while I was there. Verizon doesnt really market the Incredible either. The only place where the Inc is alive is in the forums.
Forums are showing down the past month or so.. I dunno, like any phone product, it has it's 6-9 months of fame.
It may still have a legacy like G1 or N1..
I do not think so....It is still a solid device and those who know about it will find it. I do not see it going out but I do see that there is a FLOOD of devices on the market that the consumers are just overwhelmed with what to buy and which device is right. For my mother, this would be too much to process...
Let me add this I knew all about the DINC before I ever with the VZW to play with one and the knowledge of the salesman trying to tell me about the device was awful. If I had based my first experience on buying the device from him I would have walked away from the DINC. The salesman have a big play in it to know the devices and then know how to determine what the buyers wants & then find the right devices to show....other than pushing the newer devices that are now on the floor....
My two cents
The biggest problem with the DINC is the battery life and originally availability due to AMOLED screens. I think the Droid X and Fasicinate took over for the DINC. I do like the phone but when you are up against SAMOLED and the battery life of Moto devices it is a tough sell.
After trying the droid 2 global for about a week it got returned for a dinc. Out of all the phones verizon offers this device is my favorite by far. It will have a long life albeit not a very hyped one.
Yeah, I mean I love it (the batter life and my battery door squeaking for no reason kind if ticks me off though ), but u almost want to get the original Droid (love cyanogen) for the build quality. I don't even care about the keyboard. But yeah, It sucks because the only HTC device anyone knows about is the evo. They really should really launch the Inc.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
parcou said:
I do not think so....It is still a solid device and those who know about it will find it. I do not see it going out but I do see that there is a FLOOD of devices on the market that the consumers are just overwhelmed with what to buy and which device is right. For my mother, this would be too much to process...
Let me add this I knew all about the DINC before I ever with the VZW to play with one and the knowledge of the salesman trying to tell me about the device was awful. If I had based my first experience on buying the device from him I would have walked away from the DINC. The salesman have a big play in it to know the devices and then know how to determine what the buyers wants & then find the right devices to show....other than pushing the newer devices that are now on the floor....
My two cents
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Yeah man..I was at the store the other day and was telling people to buy the Inc behind sales reps backs ha
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
True, battery life kinda sucks, so get a bigger battery. But how many other phones are there out there with all of these ROM choices? Aren't the new phones coming out with locked bootloaders? When will the era of "s-off" Smartphones end? Personally, I think Verizon has seen enough, and they are going to put a stop to ROM hacking & flashing. Perhaps they have gotten smart about replacing bricked phones. If so, the Droid Incredible will be one of the last really decent hackable phones. Oh sure, you may be able to "root" your new phones, but just try to hack an ENCRYPTED bootloader sometime...so that you can flash your own ROM. I think the days of ROM flashing are coming to an end. That's why the Droid Incredible (with s-off) is never going to die.
Well that's what I mean, in xda and in the forums I think the incredible has a long time to go. But in the consumers mind, I feel like its a gonner. Which is a shame.
And if they keep locking boot loaders I might have to switch to webOS, if Palm is still alive by then.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Correct me if I am wrong, but, wasn't there a law passed recently that allowed consumers who purchased a phone the right to root/unlock/jailbreak it without voiding the warranty? I thought I read this somewhere but I may be mistaken. Also, I think it's a crime that we can't do what we want to the phones WE PURCHASED! If I'm paying $200 for the phone plus well over $100/month to use MY phone I should be able to root it if I want. Also, I'm not even rooted yet so I'm not biased by any means. I just think if you buy something it's yours and you should be able to do whatever you want with it.
WormDoes said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but, wasn't there a law passed recently that allowed consumers who purchased a phone the right to root/unlock/jailbreak it without voiding the warranty? I thought I read this somewhere but I may be mistaken. Also, I think it's a crime that we can't do what we want to the phones WE PURCHASED! If I'm paying $200 for the phone plus well over $100/month to use MY phone I should be able to root it if I want. Also, I'm not even rooted yet so I'm not biased by any means. I just think if you buy something it's yours and you should be able to do whatever you want with it.
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The problem with tampering with it is obvious, people brick their phones. this of course causes verizon problems which is why they void the warranty. verizon shouldn't have to replace a phone for you because you messed with settings capable of rendering your phone useless. i'm rooted and all but that is just my opinion on it. you can do whatever you want but they aren't responsible for you messing up your own phone.
The law says that you have the rights to mess with your phone without being sued under the DMCA y the manufacturer for reverse engineering, decrypting, etc... the law does not guarantee you the ability or the access to do it, nor that the company has to fix what you broke during the process, just that it's no longer illegal for you to try.
The device has been out for 7 months. I honestly think that the fact that Verizon's still even advertising it is surprising. Normal "life" for a device like this is only a few months.
i think this too, if it wasnt for the AMOLED shortage, the inc could have surpassed any phone Verizon could offer. also, i agree with the fact that verizon doesnt advertise it as much as it should be, the phone has MUCH potential. i think its just verizon's fault :/
When I first got my Incredible a few months back, Verizon was ramping up their advertising campaign for the Droid X. At that time, I don't recall seeing any advertisements for the Inc (in any medium).
Now, all these months later, there are a few commercials for the Inc that I see playing fairly regularly on TV. I haven't paid enough attention to see if stores are also advertising it out front or not.
In any regard, it seems that Verizon is making a push for better public knowledge of this phone. Sure, it will eventually phase out like any other, but based on advertising, that doesn't seem to be the current trend.
I have two friends who recently (within the last two weeks) purchased Incs. One is a very educated consumer, the other barely can tell a phone from her shoes. Not sure what sold her on it, but it seems that they are still being 'pushed' to some degree.
My brother was in the Verizon store last week and commented that they were very short on Incredibles. The sales associate told him that they had recently been selling a lot of them.
Besides the TV ads, I realize that most of what I just said is completely anecdotal. Take it for what it's worth, but I think the Inc still has some time to go.
Of course, you could use all of my same points to make the opposite argument: that they are pushing them hard now so they can clear space for upcoming models (especially for the holiday season).
Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
I still see commercials for Inc.
I saw a Best Buy Black Friday ad for the Inc.
My uncle came by the house a day or two ago showing off a brand new Inc he got that week.
Nearly every model has it's rise and fall, and I'm fine with that so long as there's a decent community for the DInc that we see advancements in roms and such. MIUI is what I use and it's picking up good theme developers now with the new theming system, so regardless if the phone is losing populatity, there's enough people to provide rich content for a while.
Is that I have not seen a review of the Xoom anywhere. Has anybody else? Somehow Motorola was able to get a Xoom in Chad Ochocinco's hands a month ago but I haven't seen any evidence that Motorola has shipped review units to media members. Will we have to wait until after release on Thursday to see any reviews? This release has been so shady that I'm waiting until after I see a credible reviewer verify all of Motorola's claims before I consider purchasing.
Jrockttu said:
Is that I have not seen a review of the Xoom anywhere. Has anybody else? Somehow Motorola was able to get a Xoom in Chad Ochocinco's hands a month ago but I haven't seen any evidence that Motorola has shipped review units to media members. Will we have to wait until after release on Thursday to see any reviews? This release has been so shady that I'm waiting until after I see a credible reviewer verify all of Motorola's claims before I consider purchasing.
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There have been countless reviews. You mean you want an in-depth detailed review from someone who gets to use the device "in the wild". That is not out yet, and that is normal for a new device of this sort. The devices we have seen so far aren't ready for primetime, and we can only hope that the XOOM I pick up in 4 days is ready.
The release isn't shady, it's just a little rushed. They are trying to bring the device to market ASAP. Would you rather they push the release by a month and send out samples to reviewers? I think the review I put on YouTube will be better than most professional reviews, except for the methodical, if anecdotal, reviews Engadget and other upper echelon tech blogs post.
setite said:
There have been countless reviews. You mean you want an in-depth detailed review from someone who gets to use the device "in the wild". That is not out yet, and that is normal for a new device of this sort. The devices we have seen so far aren't ready for primetime, and we can only hope that the XOOM I pick up in 4 days is ready.
The release isn't shady, it's just a little rushed. They are trying to bring the device to market ASAP. Would you rather they push the release by a month and send out samples to reviewers? I think the review I put on YouTube will be better than most professional reviews, except for the methodical, if anecdotal, reviews Engadget and other upper echelon tech blogs post.
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I disagree. It is shady in the way they are forcing people to pay an extra $35 activation fee plus $20 min service just to activate WiFi. Yes, it is stated in the small print but still, bad business and shady in my mind.
keitht said:
I disagree. It is shady in the way they are forcing people to pay an extra $35 activation fee plus $20 min service just to activate WiFi. Yes, it is stated in the small print but still, bad business and shady in my mind.
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If you consider that Verizon has put money into this project, it's fair to expect them to make a profit on each unit. I think that they should have worked something out with Best Buy that allowed them to take a cut from the 800$, but the result would have been the tablet costing 850$.
Hasn't a rumor been floating around that buying direct from Verizon would require no activation? As counter-intuitive as that may sound, it tracks as Motorola is selling the XOOM 3G wholesale for 550$. So if BB sells it, they keep the 250$ difference, if Verizon sells it, they don't need you to pay for a month of service because they have already made 250$.
It's not shady, but arguably bad business from a consumer image angle. People who don't understand what is going on, or people who simply don't care will look poorly upon the policy. Knowing that there is a WiFi Only version for 200$ less down the road should assuage any issues. But you still have the right to be mad, even if it just gives you heartburn
setite said:
If you consider that Verizon has put money into this project, it's fair to expect them to make a profit on each unit. I think that they should have worked something out with Best Buy that allowed them to take a cut from the 800$, but the result would have been the tablet costing 850$.
Hasn't a rumor been floating around that buying direct from Verizon would require no activation? As counter-intuitive as that may sound, it tracks as Motorola is selling the XOOM 3G wholesale for 550$. So if BB sells it, they keep the 250$ difference, if Verizon sells it, they don't need you to pay for a month of service because they have already made 250$.
It's not shady, but arguably bad business from a consumer image angle. People who don't understand what is going on, or people who simply don't care will look poorly upon the policy. Knowing that there is a WiFi Only version for 200$ less down the road should assuage any issues. But you still have the right to be mad, even if it just gives you heartburn
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You sound like a lawyer It is bad business and consumers will speak with their wallets. This price point will not ultimately work. And we still do not know actual issues with the device including what is going on with the SD support. I was all excited about this before but now, I cannot see paying $900 without a single accessory.
keitht said:
You sound like a lawyer It is bad business and consumers will speak with their wallets. This price point will not ultimately work. And we still do not know actual issues with the device including what is going on with the SD support. I was all excited about this before but now, I cannot see paying $900 without a single accessory.
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Yup. I am planning to go to law school . I agree with you. I just have a habit of playing devil's advocate, and trying to inform other consumers so they don't get enraged and end up hurting themselves by getting angry and making sweeping statements they can't take back. Like when Steve Jobs got angry and committed to never having flash, and forever people like me who need flash can't buy an iPad.
setite said:
There have been countless reviews. You mean you want an in-depth detailed review from someone who gets to use the device "in the wild". That is not out yet, and that is normal for a new device of this sort. The devices we have seen so far aren't ready for primetime, and we can only hope that the XOOM I pick up in 4 days is ready.
The release isn't shady, it's just a little rushed. They are trying to bring the device to market ASAP. Would you rather they push the release by a month and send out samples to reviewers? I think the review I put on YouTube will be better than most professional reviews, except for the methodical, if anecdotal, reviews Engadget and other upper echelon tech blogs post.
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I haven't seen a single review, just a few hands-on impressions in a controlled environment. I want something that validates the 10 hour battery life and that tells me if the OS is buggy, etc.
I consider it a shady release for the reasons already covered in this thread. The $800 price tag is high, but reasonable, until you consider that it's a $200 premium for 3g/4g, you have to activate data to unlock wifi, and they'll charge you an activation fee of $35 any time you turn on the data. That last part is the biggest kick in the nuts. Motorola, Verizon, and the retailers are all trying to get their cut of the device and the consumers are the ones being punished.
Jrockttu said:
I haven't seen a single review, just a few hands-on impressions in a controlled environment. I want something that validates the 10 hour battery life and that tells me if the OS is buggy, etc.
I consider it a shady release for the reasons already covered in this thread. The $800 price tag is high, but reasonable, until you consider that it's a $200 premium for 3g/4g, you have to activate data to unlock wifi, and they'll charge you an activation fee of $35 any time you turn on the data. That last part is the biggest kick in the nuts. Motorola, Verizon, and the retailers are all trying to get their cut of the device and the consumers are the ones being punished.
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Agreed. The last part is indeed a true roshambo kick in the nards. I am quite cross about that particular detail as it sort of defeats the purpose of month to month, and makes no sense given my admittedly limited knowledge of how CDMA works. AFAIK all that should be necessary is an OTA provisioning of the tablet when you want to enable service. Something I do on a regular basis for my dad who goes through a new phone every 6 months. He buys crappy flip phones on ebay for 20$ and I activate them using a combination of the Verizon website and a # code on the phone. Easy Peasy, no cost. This makes it clear that they are trying to get you to just keep a minimal data plan month to month, because without a gap of 2 months or more, you will be paying more in the grand scheme if you pay an activation fee each time you lapse. It's almost like a late fee.
Jrockttu said:
I haven't seen a single review, just a few hands-on impressions in a controlled environment. I want something that validates the 10 hour battery life and that tells me if the OS is buggy, etc.
I consider it a shady release for the reasons already covered in this thread. The $800 price tag is high, but reasonable, until you consider that it's a $200 premium for 3g/4g, you have to activate data to unlock wifi, and they'll charge you an activation fee of $35 any time you turn on the data. That last part is the biggest kick in the nuts. Motorola, Verizon, and the retailers are all trying to get their cut of the device and the consumers are the ones being punished.
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It's up the the manufacturer to release the reviewers from the NDA and let them post reviews. The sheer number of developers that have the Xoom is proof that reviewers have had them for a while. Usually reviews don't come out until the device is actually for sale.
Jrockttu said:
Is that I have not seen a review of the Xoom anywhere. Has anybody else? Somehow Motorola was able to get a Xoom in Chad Ochocinco's hands a month ago but I haven't seen any evidence that Motorola has shipped review units to media members. Will we have to wait until after release on Thursday to see any reviews? This release has been so shady that I'm waiting until after I see a credible reviewer verify all of Motorola's claims before I consider purchasing.
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There have been Atrix reviews out for a while, but so far, it's been mum on the Xoom. It doesn't make much sense to me either.
That said, I think "shady" is the wrong word. I would use "bizarre". Everything about this has been bizarre, and the fact that nobody even knows when the thing is being released just flabbergasts me. Most launches include things like, you know, release dates, prices, venues, etc.... Right now, the only thing we know for certain is that it will be available at Best Buy in late February for $800, and we haven't known that stuff for very long.
However much I dislike Apple, Steve Jobs would never have let something like this happen... unless we're talking about the mythical white iPhone 4.
Xevilious said:
There have been Atrix reviews out for a while, but so far, it's been mum on the Xoom. It doesn't make much sense to me either.
That said, I think "shady" is the wrong word. I would use "bizarre". Everything about this has been bizarre, and the fact that nobody even knows when the thing is being released just flabbergasts me. Most launches include things like, you know, release dates, prices, venues, etc.... Right now, the only thing we know for certain is that it will be available at Best Buy in late February for $800, and we haven't known that stuff for very long.
However much I dislike Apple, Steve Jobs would never have let something like this happen... unless we're talking about the mythical white iPhone 4.
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It's just an amazing failure of a launch. It boggles my mind that they can come off of their "Best of CES" performance and get nothing but bad press thereafter. How can they not effectively communicate the price and release dates across media and retailers? Even after Sanjay Jha confirmed the price, the price still isn't listed on the official Xoom website! So much potential wasted. I'm an Apple hater, but nobody can deny that they know how to run a product launch and these other companies need to take notes every June.
Jrockttu said:
It's just an amazing failure of a launch. It boggles my mind that they can come off of their "Best of CES" performance and get nothing but bad press thereafter. How can they not effectively communicate the price and release dates across media and retailers? Even after Sanjay Jha confirmed the price, the price still isn't listed on the official Xoom website! So much potential wasted. I'm an Apple hater, but nobody can deny that they know how to run a product launch and these other companies need to take notes every June.
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Exactly correct. Motorola could stand to take several lessons from Apple, mainly marketing.
Sprint support is NOT terrible. I know that as humans, our minds tend to remember negative experiences for much longer than positive ones, and I know that people don't come to XDA to share when things are working, but I just had a wonderful session with a tech. I don't remember his name, but I do remember the amount of dedication he put forward for this problem. After having issues with receiving text messages for whoever knows how long, we speculated since I installed Google Voice and then uninstalled it, then not being able to send texts, I Odin'ed back to good old EC05 while re-partitioning and clearing my EFS. I don't know if it was this that broke things, doubt it, but then I tried to make a voice call for the first time in a few days. It failed with an error number 16 and then some switch number. I tried calling the phone and it told my that the Google Voice subscriber (who is me) was unavailable. After thinking 'WTF HAVE I DONE TO THIS!!!!!' for a few minutes I Google'd error 16. It involves fraud, ESN cloning, and running S-OFF (to root) on HTC EVOs. Normally they all got fixed by calling Sprint. I called and the rep removed GV completely from the account. That didn't work. After an hour of resets, refreshes, and trials, he created an E-ticket for me to get a replacement. During this time I had been Googleing the error 16 more. It said something about a CHLS reset. I'm not a rep but I mentioned that we should try it. He said that it had been done earlier but he was eager to try it again. At this point, if I had been handling the call, I would probably be pissed. The called wants me to try something I did half an hour ago. But nope, this rep was perfectly fine with my suggestion. This time it worked and I had all connections restored. I thanked him graciously and asked if, now that we were done, I could ask about the switch to LTE. He told me that he didn't have official information but he would tell me what he had heard/knew. He said that from what he knows that LTE and WiMax will coexist together, perhaps with dual band devices. We laughed at the battery usage of that but he did tell me that Sprint is looking to compete with Verizon for LTE coverage. That's exciting news for me, whether or not it is accurate. Verizon is getting LTE in Delaware, I know there is some 15 miles away from me, and that would be great.
TL;DR for this post: Sprint support is helpful and we only hear about negative experiences. I'm not saying that all calls end well, but we need to remember that every rep is different. There are people who are just doing their job, and there are people who do their job well. From my experience, the latter is much more common.
No they really do suck! All the way up to Executive services...they have locked down the ability to give any benefits to unsatisfied customers and they will straight up lie to cover their asses. They don't give a crap about the customer anymore. I have talked to a few that were nice however they were incompetent, so you can't have it both ways.
though the few support situations i've been in involve a sprint store, although they were kinda uninformed and just kept to the script and ended up being non-helpful both times, i won't say it was a good or bad experience. I'm glad to see someone giving them there props when their do to receive them.
kennyglass123 said:
No they really do suck! All the way up to Executive services...they have locked down the ability to give any benefits to unsatisfied customers and they will straight up lie to cover their asses. They don't give a crap about the customer anymore. I have talked to a few that were nice however they were incompetent, so you can't have it both ways.
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wow Kenny, surely you don't lump all of us techs into that. I believe myself to be very competent, and I am certainly honest and straightforward.
And the "ability to give any benefits to unsatisfied customers" is pretty ridiculous as it generally sets unreasonable expectations for customers, especially those who then act as if courtesies and favors are expected to be given all the time.
Plus it's just good penny pinching. What do you expect from a company about to spend 10+ billion in the next year and half.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
I had a similiar problem awhile back but mine was with not being able to make calls while out of my home area in certain areas was kinda weird but I had 3g and 4g though. Long story short there was a special network reset on sprints end that fixed it for me and maybe it was a chls. This did also occur to me after efs clear.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Okay, yeah, the store people suck. I've never had to call more than once for anything though, whether it was a replacement or even sorting out connection issues. All of the stores I've been in were rude. Ones in NY last time I was there blew me off with a 'hey yo sorry bro but we're busy here and you'll have to leave the phone with us for 4 hours but i dont think you want to do that'. The local store laughed at my mothers call dropping and said that if she can make and receive calls they don't need to help. I guess 5 second connections count as calls. Anyway, maybe I've been lucky! I had issues with Sprint TV and got a discount on my bill because it wasn't at all what I wanted.
Every time i had to call tech support i had a extremely nice and helpful person on the other end they even offered to throw me some credit to my account when my first epic had problems right out of the box and another time with my towers in my area were down for 24 hrs they credited 20 to my account the only bad experience i had was when i went inot the sprint store the on-site tech had absolutely no effin clue how to fix gps on my phone i was trying to calibrate it but it wouldnt lock (first epic right out of the box) he just had no clue about anything and when i showed him some stuff on the epic i got "oh i didnt know it did that" or "ill have to remember that for future troubleshooting" seriously they should really check these guys out before they hire them dude didnt know anything about Android and he was the lead android tech lol
Nvmd 10 char
The people on the other end of the phone are people to, occasionally it can be hard to remember that when they know less than you do...after all, they supposedly do this for a living day in and day out.
The last time I called Sprint it was to add a Canadian calling plan and to ask what the roaming data rate was while in Canada. Both of these items required an inordinate number of transfers and when transferred the person on the other end of the line was clearly baffled as to why I would have been transferred to them. Both items seemed to be a rather simple request as far as I was concerned considering they were very happy to charge me for these services. I would have been happy to use the Internet to do this but the option was grayed out when I logged into my account and the data rate was posted in 5 different sections of the web site at 5 different amounts.
My Sprint cellular service is good in STL and the price (including discount) is marvelous but boy-oh-boy I don't know how these guys keep the lights on.
-sigh-...I suppose it is depressing how little my colleagues know.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
Geez, if I had known this would create such a controversy I never would have said anything. I never said that corporate Sprint decisions were good, I never said that I wouldn't like more power to be given to the reps, I only said that we should appreciate those who actually have the capability and training to help out those of us who need it. I know that not everybody is helpful. I also know that if this is how we act on by far one of the nicest XDA sub-forums that exists right now, imagine what these reps must be exposed to every day. If they are less than satisfactory, I wonder how they got that way. It couldn't be years of no appreciation, could it? I never meant to deny the trouble people have had with the support system, but bring some positive to the highly hostile attitude towards Sprint employees. The ones who take the flak aren't the ones who are causing problems. /rant
squshy 7 said:
wow Kenny, surely you don't lump all of us techs into that. I believe myself to be very competent, and I am certainly honest and straightforward.
And the "ability to give any benefits to unsatisfied customers" is pretty ridiculous as it generally sets unreasonable expectations for customers, especially those who then act as if courtesies and favors are expected to be given all the time.
Plus it's just good penny pinching. What do you expect from a company about to spend 10+ billion in the next year and half.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
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No Squishy, definitely present company accepted. And up until a year ago everything was rosy with me an Sprint but something happened in corporate that turned the whole picture sour. Customer service was no longer first. Reps that actually wanted to help said their hands were tied. When I lost a $2000 job that I would have made in 1 days work because of an Airave upgrade Sprint denied it all the way up to Hesse's office. The Airave tech said an update had just went through and caused all calls in my home to go directly to voicemail. After resetting the Airave it was working again. I compained and asked for a simple courtesy to get an early upgrade or just move the date, or just get one more yearly update that they took away, I was told by Executive services that there is no record of an Airave update and my phone lost sync with the tower. After explainging that I had no problem outside of airave range they still stuck to their lie as to prevent a lawsuit on the loss of income. That is a bunch of assh&les to me.
It must be mind numbing to park yourself in that Confederacy of Dunces day in and day out. On the flip side I bet dealing with the public likely makes you want to kill yourself some days.
I'm not even asking that the guy on the end of the phone know anything really....I always assumed, based on how many times I get put on hold, that all a CSR needs is enough time and cerebral ability to type my question into the computer and read me back the answer. It's when this process breaks down that I get pissy.
In all fairness to Sprint it's as bad (or good) as any other consumer tech company I deal with regularly. Obviously not all Sprint CSRs are bad apples but why-oh-why does Sprint's ratio of spoiled fruit seem so high?
RyleyinSTL said:
The people on the other end of the phone are people to, occasionally it can be hard to remember that when they know less than you do...after all, they supposedly do this for a living day in and day out.
The last time I called Sprint it was to add a Canadian calling plan and to ask what the roaming data rate was while in Canada. Both of these items required an inordinate number of transfers and when transferred the person on the other end of the line was clearly baffled as to why I would have been transferred to them. Both items seemed to be a rather simple request as far as I was concerned considering they were very happy to charge me for these services. I would have been happy to use the Internet to do this but the option was grayed out when I logged into my account and the data rate was posted in 5 different sections of the web site at 5 different amounts.
My Sprint cellular service is good in STL and the price (including discount) is marvelous but boy-oh-boy I don't know how these guys keep the lights on.
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Lol att cell does the same thing when you want to add foreign service plans and are baffled to lol. Att internet customer support are a bunch of retards they don't even know what services they sell. You have to call 5x in order to get the service you already knew you were available to get. All the corporations are just ridiculous. Its not just one its ALL OF THEM.........
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda premium
My question is, if we know so much more about these devices than the people they are paying to troubleshoot the devices when we have a problem...why the hell aren't WE the one's working at Sprint??
Well, to answer my own question I guess, I see how ruffled feathers get when a noob wanders in asking dumb questions, how many here would volunteer to deal with nothing but noobs all day long?
Well, to answer my second question- I suppose it is easier dealing with noob 'problems' than tracking down a bug in a kernel or a glitch in a ROM UI, but these are fun activities for most self-taught programmers, as opposed to dealing with someone wondering why their phone 'won't work' (however vague that claim is!) probably drives you up a wall..still, if it paid well..where can I sign up? I need a job...lol
My experience with Sprint CustServ so far has been mixed- mostly because if you can't show someone how your phone is misbehaving, and they aren't smart enough to understand what you are describing- troubleshooting is impeded to say the least. On the whole though, the Epic was more trouble than the reps. I'm on my fourth one..
Tomcat5 said:
Geez, if I had known this would create such a controversy I never would have said anything. I never said that corporate Sprint decisions were good, I never said that I wouldn't like more power to be given to the reps, I only said that we should appreciate those who actually have the capability and training to help out those of us who need it. I know that not everybody is helpful. I also know that if this is how we act on by far one of the nicest XDA sub-forums that exists right now, imagine what these reps must be exposed to every day. If they are less than satisfactory, I wonder how they got that way. It couldn't be years of no appreciation, could it? I never meant to deny the trouble people have had with the support system, but bring some positive to the highly hostile attitude towards Sprint employees. The ones who take the flak aren't the ones who are causing problems. /rant
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Honestly, most of us don't care about your pleasant experience at sprint. The fact remains, the service is mediocre at best and the data is slower than my dead grandmother. Post something most can relate to in the future. Mmmk?
Sent from my C9AN0GEN-MOd EpicOG
b16flybye said:
Honestly, most of us don't care about your pleasant experience at sprint. The fact remains, the service is mediocre at best and the data is slower than my dead grandmother. Post something most can relate to in the future. Mmmk?
Sent from my C9AN0GEN-MOd EpicOG
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Cool story bro you should tell it agan...
I can't relate to your "mediocre" experience at Sprint. Next time post something I can relate to yeah?
I have to say I have had nothing but good experiences with Sprint Customer Support. (crosses fingers)
A bill issue was resolved fast and easily, and a couple issues with my phones were resolved in a way I was satisfied with.
Given my interactions with Comcast, Verizon, and several other IT companies, I have to give Sprint props, as they were better then all the others, as least in my experience.
As someone that deals with IT calls from irate customers quite often, I feel that a lot of the interactions issue are as much an issue with the customer, as it is with Sprint.
As always... YMMV
DCRocks said:
As always... YMMV
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FTW. Sometimes I get so mad at them that I want to cancel my service immediately. Other times, they're the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Had to go into the store, waited something like 45 minutes for an associate to help get my kids phone changed over. He was very polite and apologetic... then I've had chats where they promised the unwanted service that kept coming back....took three bill cycles to resolve....
Mostly I've had good experiences with them. But I'm low maintenance....
ive got 2 great corp. stores near me. most of the techs and front end people are rooted. i go in there and we talk about rooting, samsung and bada, apple hatred, all that good stuff. mostly nothing but good experiences here. if any one here is having trouble with sprint, try this number. no hold times, a live english speaking person, and typically, they are somewhat experienced.
877-775-4886
account services aka retentions, but they are still more than willing to help.